Doctors in the UK to be asked to vote whether they would help the terminally ill to die.

by Syl Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:57 pm

About time the law was changed. I dont know of one person who would choose to live if their lives were intolerable with no hope of improvement.
After seeing people I love suffer seemingly endlessly, I, along with others I know will help ourselves to die when and if the time is right.
How much easier it would be for ourselves and our families with medically trained help though.

"Doctors in the UK are set to be asked if they would help a terminally ill patient to die - and whether the law on assisted dying should be changed.
Next month, the Royal College of Physicians will poll its 35,000 members and fellows on whether or not there should be a change in the law to allow assisted dying, revealed ChronicleLive.
The survey will also ask whether members of the professional body, which is dedicated to improving the practice of medicine, would be willing to "participate actively" in assisted dying, should the law be changed.
Professor Andrew Goddard, RCP president, said the email poll is necessary for the college to understand its members' views.
He added: "The Royal College of Physicians is frequently asked for its stance on this high-profile issue, which may be cited in legal cases and parliamentary debate, so it is essential that we base this on an up-to-date understanding of our members' and fellows' views."

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/health/doctors-asked-what-would-comes-15673261

by Original Quill Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:26 am

Why are doctors being queried? I mean, if they don't want to participate, there's no question they have the power to withdraw. But is it morally their decision?

Seems to me these questions should be put to moral philosophers, not mechanics who repair the human body.

by nicko Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:33 am

Mechanics can check over a Car and say "it's knackered, scrap it" ! Same thing eh Quill ?

by Syl Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:40 pm

Original Quill wrote:Why are doctors being queried? I mean, if they don't want to participate, there's no question they have the power to withdraw. But is it morally their decision?

Seems to me these questions should be put to moral philosophers, not mechanics who repair the human body.

Why should they not be asked?
If ultimately the decision to end a life is down to then they are entitled to have their say.

by Syl Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:42 pm

nicko wrote:Mechanics can check over a Car and say "it's knackered, scrap it" ! Same thing eh Quill ?

Not really the same thing Nicko, a car cant give it's opinion.
If a person is able to communicate and wants to live, no matter how bad their quality of life is, morally I dont think any Dr could be expected to deliberately end that persons life.

by Syl Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:02 pm

I think public opinion is pretty strong re assisted dying if this poll is anything to go by.

https://www.dignityindying.org.uk/news/poll-assisted-dying/

Next month we will see how the people who will often have to carry out the act feel about it.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:05 pm

It's a difficult one. Doctors are supposed to save lives, not take them. They're the only ones who have the proper means to do so though.

What about those who have chronic conditions which aren't actually killing them?

by Syl Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:14 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:It's a difficult one. Doctors are supposed to save lives, not take them. They're the only ones who have the proper means to do so though.

What about those who have chronic conditions which aren't actually killing them?

It is difficult, some people just want to die because they are fed up with life, not everyone would be terminally ill or suffering so badly they have no quality of life.

Every case would have to be looked at individualy obviously.

by Syl Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:16 pm

To add to that though, sometimes Dr's do allow people to die when they could keep them alive longer.
Not hydrating a person can quicken their death, administering certain pain killers can also shorten a persons life.

by Original Quill Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:54 pm

nicko wrote:Mechanics can check over a Car and say "it's knackered, scrap it" ! Same thing eh Quill ?

Not quite. We all admire the methods and habit-patterns of mechanics, but the original thinking and inventiveness of an engineer is a real prize. Read, Derek J. de Solla Price, Little Science Big Science (1963).

by Original Quill Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:10 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Why are doctors being queried? I mean, if they don't want to participate, there's no question they have the power to withdraw. But is it morally their decision?

Seems to me these questions should be put to moral philosophers, not mechanics who repair the human body.

Why should they not be asked?
If ultimately the decision to end a life is down to then they are entitled to have their say.

Everybody should be asked. The essence of free speech is every/any mind can harbor original thought. But, as far as professions go, physicians are not the experts behind the moral questions they face.

My physician daughter, whose name I'll omit, did a Fulbright Fellowship at the Rijksuniversitei Groningen (Netherlands), on medical ethics, later delivering it to the US Congress. The problem is that many medical ethical questions (eg, what is life?, in the abortion debate; or right to die, as in Oregon) are misplaced when it comes to looking to experts. Physicians are marvelous when it comes to cutting and diagnosing, but they know nothing (special) when it comes to sorting out spiritual and metaphysical matters.

by Original Quill Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:22 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:It's a difficult one. Doctors are supposed to save lives, not take them. They're the only ones who have the proper means to do so though.

What about those who have chronic conditions which aren't actually killing them?

And there's also the problem that an answer might be just around the corner. There is an exponential rate at which medical advances and cures are coming along. My own father (a physician and professor of medicine) died of a very painful kind of cancer. He cursed the fact that the UCLA Medical Center was then working on the very thing that would eventually would have cured him...had he lived.

Never underestimate what is just around the corner.

by nicko Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:57 pm

Some times Quill, the corners are a long way away, would you not agree ?

by Original Quill Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:38 pm

nicko wrote:Some times Quill, the corners are a long way away, would you not agree ?

Amazingly--and I've seen this over and over--the corners are right there in front of you. Landing on Jupiter is far away, I will agree.

When I was a kid I got polio, the answer seemed far, far away...opps, it was right around the corner. Open heart surgery seemed far, far away...opps, the next week they were in the heart itself, planting stents arthroscopically. How about DNA? Genetic testing? Radiology? So many procedures and medicines...simply amazing,

by Syl Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:40 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

Why should they not be asked?
If ultimately the decision to end a life is down to then they are entitled to have their say.

Everybody should be asked. The essence of free speech is every/any mind can harbor original thought. But, as far as professions go, physicians are not the experts behind the moral questions they face.

My physician daughter, whose name I'll omit, did a Fulbright Fellowship at the Rijksuniversitei Groningen (Netherlands), on medical ethics, later delivering it to the US Congress. The problem is that many medical ethical questions (eg, what is life?, in the abortion debate; or right to die, as in Oregon) are misplaced when it comes to looking to experts. Physicians are marvelous when it comes to cutting and diagnosing, but they know nothing (special) when it comes to sorting out spiritual and metaphysical matters.

Is this a subject that moral philosophers could ever agree on?
I agree everyone should be asked, at the end of the day it's everyones business, unfortunately it's not everyones decision that counts though.

I should hope if it's ever decided that the medical profession can help with assisted dying, they would have the right to choose whether that's something they want to be personally involved in.
I know nurses could opt out of helping with abortions here (not sure if that's still the case) if it's not it should be.

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