United Nations documents torture, prison camps of North Korea

by Ben Reilly Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:56 pm

GENEVA, Feb 17(Reuters) - United Nations human rights investigators on Monday issued a damning report cataloguing massive human rights violations in North Korea that they said amount to crimes of humanity which should be brought to the International Criminal Court (ICC).

The 372-page report is the result of a year-long investigation marked by unprecedented public testimony by defectors at hearings held in South Korea, Japan, Britain and the United States.

Kim Jong-un may be personally responsible for crimes against humanity, top U.N. investigator Michael Kirby said in a Jan. 20 letter to the North Korean leader that accompanies the report.

Here are some excepts from the report, to be debated by the U.N. Human Rights Council in Geneva on March 17:

SCOPE OF CRIMES

"Systematic, widespread and gross human rights violations have been and are being committed by the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, its institutions and officials. In many instances, the violations of human rights found by the commission constitute crimes against humanity.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/17/un-documents-north-korean_n_4802286.html

by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:09 am

Well, if he can wipe out half his own family, he's not likely to worry about what he does to anyone else. A very weird and wicked man. Given the right circumstances he'd probably have a go at outdoing Hitler.

by gerber Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:17 am

Sassy wrote:Well, if he can wipe out half his own family, he's not likely to worry about what he does to anyone else. A very weird and wicked man. Given the right circumstances he'd probably have a go at outdoing Hitler.

We seldom have agreed in public and have been discussing topics for many many years................ There have been occasions though and tonight is one

You are absolutely bang on.

by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:19 am

He gives me the creeps, big style!

by gerber Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:21 am

Sassy wrote:He gives me the creeps, big style!

Hair Style ?

Wife was pregnant. Due more than ten months ago............... No heir announced. Only Son would be acceptable.

by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:25 am

That's what I think to, she is probably gone and the baby with her. I'd sincerely hate to be N. Korean.

by gerber Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:28 am

Sassy wrote:That's what I think to, she is probably gone and the baby with her. I'd sincerely hate to be N. Korean.

Good point, not been in the media for a long time. Even Eva Braun, fab book btw - had lived a long life in Argentina supposedly, died a few years ago.

by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:30 am

I'm going stop thinking about it, give me bad dreams. Ug! Off to bed, night Gerbs.

by Ben Reilly Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:31 am

Every time I think about North Korea, I wonder, how the hell does this situation come about? And what can be done to put an end to it? (And whether the North Korean people wouldn't actually, perversely, fight against any change to this sick system.)

by Original Quill Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:44 pm

Two words, Ben: Nuclear Weapons.

Now do you see why it is so important to stop Iran's nuclear development?

by Guest Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:49 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Every time I think about North Korea, I wonder, how the hell does this situation come about? And what can be done to put an end to it? (And whether the North Korean people wouldn't actually, perversely, fight against any change to this sick system.)

They've got China backing them. The fact that they tacitly approve of all this, and probably do a lot of things as bad in China itself, makes the future look pretty scary to me in view of the way their economy and power's growing worldwide.

by Tommy Monk Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:56 pm

I thought lefties liked communism?
Lots of history of labour members being communist supporters.

by Ben Reilly Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:32 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I thought lefties liked communism?
Lots of history of labour members being communist supporters.

This isn't anything close to communism, and no, not all liberals like the idea of communism, either in theory or in practice. No one "ism" is ever going to work anyway.

by Tommy Monk Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:15 pm

It is very much communism and very much like Soviet Union under Lennin and Stalin, and China under Mao.

Top down centralised dictatorial rule by the 'great leader', absence of democracy, brutal punishments for non conformity or dissent, torture, death camps, against the decadent capitalism, complete control of everything by the state.

And politics is quite different in UK, Labour are quite left, and many of their members as well as high ranking labour (ex)government cabinet ministers were known card carrying communist members and supporters.

by Eilzel Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:09 pm

North Korea practices Stalinist authoritarian communism; I doubt if Karl Marx were alive today he would approve of the North Korean regime, or even the Soviet Union for that matter Rolling Eyes

Wikileaks gave us insight into the impatience China has with North Korea and as their world wide power and influence grows they may come to see the 'buffer' North Korea has in recent history provided China, as more of a hindrance than a benefit but who knows.

I read an article in the Guardian not long ago describing how people have died literally swimming in shit in North Korean labour camps- among many other horrific stories. Why doesn't anyone do anything about it? Because it isn't urgent enough to many in those countries that actually could do something about it. Which is a disgrace but a painful truth. I can't see most North Koreans liking the regime, but they probably would fight either through fear of the regime or fear of the unknown that would follow Sad

by veya_victaous Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:14 pm

Regarding China and NK

China got on fine with his dad but Apparently Kim Jong-Il has pissed of a few CCP heads, they have already warned him, China would not allow any Bullshit, and they will blow NK up rather than less the USA take it.

NK is fast finding itself friendless

NK is definitely not communist, if anything it is feudal (like olden day kings)

by gerber Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:14 pm

Eilzel wrote:North Korea practices Stalinist authoritarian communism; I doubt if Karl Marx were alive today he would approve of the North Korean regime, or even the Soviet Union for that matter

Wikileaks gave us insight into the impatience China has with North Korea and as their world wide power and influence grows they may come to see the 'buffer' North Korea has in recent history provided China, as more of a hindrance than a benefit but who knows.

I read an article in the Guardian not long ago describing how people have died literally swimming in shit in North Korean labour camps- among many other horrific stories. Why doesn't anyone do anything about it? Because it isn't urgent enough to many in those countries that actually could do something about it. Which is a disgrace but a painful truth. I can't see most North Koreans liking the regime, but they probably would fight either through fear of the regime or fear of the unknown that would follow

They don't have any oil, or other mineral wealth that I am aware of.

by Ben Reilly Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:26 am

gerber wrote:
Eilzel wrote:North Korea practices Stalinist authoritarian communism; I doubt if Karl Marx were alive today he would approve of the North Korean regime, or even the Soviet Union for that matter

Wikileaks gave us insight into the impatience China has with North Korea and as their world wide power and influence grows they may come to see the 'buffer' North Korea has in recent history provided China, as more of a hindrance than a benefit but who knows.

I read an article in the Guardian not long ago describing how people have died literally swimming in shit in North Korean labour camps- among many other horrific stories. Why doesn't anyone do anything about it? Because it isn't urgent enough to many in those countries that actually could do something about it. Which is a disgrace but a painful truth. I can't see most North Koreans liking the regime, but they probably would fight either through fear of the regime or fear of the unknown that would follow

They don't have any oil, or other mineral wealth that I am aware of.

Which is, sadly, only their second-biggest problem ...

Delving back into the communism debate, I for one hate it when people make the "no true Scotsman" claim in regards to Stalinism, Castro, etc., but you still can't look at Marxism seriously and think he ever advocated totalitarianism. The only people who ever practiced anything resembling what Marx advocated would be called something like "communitarian anarchists," or more familiarly, "hippies living in communes." Marx was about as anarchist as it gets, and last I checked, they don't believe in having a government, period.

by Tommy Monk Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:27 am

See the lefties desperately trying to deny the reality of the evils of communism as being not real communism at all.
Next they will be claiming it is some sort of 'right wing' communism instead!

by Ben Reilly Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:28 am

Tommy Monk wrote:See the lefties desperately trying to deny the reality of the evils of communism as being not real communism at all.
Next they will be claiming it is some sort of 'right wing' communism instead!

You didn't read my post at all, did you.

by Tommy Monk Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:34 am

Read it after I posted.

I was talking about the lefties, you are a liberal aren't you?

by veya_victaous Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:44 am

@TM
Stalin was the right side of Lenin and Trotsky was the Left. Maybe you are too old to look at it from a historians perspective, but Communism in Russia could have been dramatically different if Trotsky had come out on top.
Stalin was and always planned to be a military dictator

by Tommy Monk Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:15 am

All slightly different shades of far left.

And all communists.

"Maybe you are too old to look at it from a historians perspective"

What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

That doesn't make any sense!

by Ben Reilly Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:22 am

Tommy, I really don't think you have many politicians (if any) who want to turn the U.K. into a Stalinist-style dictatorship.

by veya_victaous Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:10 am

Tommy Monk wrote:All slightly different shades of far left.

And all communists.

"Maybe you are too old to look at it from a historians perspective"

What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

That doesn't make any sense!

I means if you can remember the Cold war, You have consumed too much propaganda to have a honest opinion in the topic. It is Nothing Personal Just a Fact when talking about Historical events. Communist Russia is Historical there are Adults alive today that were not born when the USSR existed, a 23 years old never lived in a world with Communist Russia and the Arms race with the USA. I'm 31 and all that was done and dusted by the time I was 8 years old.

I notice Old people seem to claim 'facts about Russia or Communism' they heard 25-30 years ago which have been long since shown to be nothing but propaganda.

by Eilzel Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:27 am

Exactly veya, some people can't let go of the old enemy that existed most of their lives. To be clear I am not denying the fact Stalin was a Leftist and his crimes caused because of a warped, selfishly dictatorial LW ideology. But to state his was true and pure communism as envisioned by Marx is to drastically misunderstand Marx's vision.

by Guest Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:12 am

Oh my god everyone panic

For the first time in human history - a dictator is torturing people

by veya_victaous Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:52 am

Eilzel wrote:Exactly veya, some people can't let go of the old enemy that existed most of their lives. To be clear I am not denying the fact Stalin was a Leftist and his crimes caused because of a warped, selfishly dictatorial LW ideology. But to state his was true and pure communism as envisioned by Marx is to drastically misunderstand Marx's vision.

he was a crazy dictator plain and simple Rolling Eyes

If one looks at what he did to Trotsky (Lenin's chosen successor) and his followers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Trotsky

Just a few points from the wiki:

a Russian Marxist revolutionary and theorist, Soviet politician, and the founder and first leader of the Red Army.

An early advocate of Red Army intervention against European fascism,[1] in the late 1930s, Trotsky opposed Stalin's non-aggression pact with Adolf Hitler.

After leading a failed struggle of the Left Opposition against the policies and rise of Joseph Stalin in the 1920s

Trotsky's ideas were the basis of Trotskyism, a major school of Marxist thought that is opposed to the theories of Stalinism.

After Lenin's death :
On the surface, Trotsky remained the most prominent and popular Bolshevik leader, although his "mistakes" were often alluded to by troika partisans. Behind the scenes, he was completely cut off from the decision making process. Politburo meetings were pure formalities since all key decisions were made ahead of time by the troika and its supporters. Trotsky's control over the military was undermined by reassigning his deputy,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

the Trotskyites were almost all wiped out in the great purge after being the last political group that could possibly face Stalin.

I think the comparison between Hitler and Stalin are accurate, one must remember that it was Stalin's army that actually defeated Hitler, and like the Japanese proverb "to defeat a devil one must be a devil". :::grouch:: Stalin Didn't follow Lenin's plans/philosophy at all

by Tommy Monk Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:07 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:All slightly different shades of far left.
And all communists.
"Maybe you are too old to look at it from a historians perspective"
What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
That doesn't make any sense!
I means if you can remember the Cold war, You have consumed too much propaganda to have a honest opinion in the topic. It is Nothing Personal Just a Fact when talking about Historical events. Communist Russia is Historical there are Adults alive today that were not born when the USSR existed, a 23 years old never lived in a world with Communist Russia and the Arms race with the USA. I'm 31 and all that was done and dusted by the time I was 8 years old.
I notice Old people seem to claim 'facts about Russia or Communism' they heard 25-30 years ago which have been long since shown to be nothing but propaganda.

Rubbish.

Communism produced the same results wherever it was, and North Korea is just the same today.

I am not much older than you, and not repeating propaganda.

by veya_victaous Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:09 pm

Cuba and China have completely different results than Russia? WTF are you on about?

NK is not Communist, they even say they have throw away communist ideals, they haven't followed Lenin's teachings since 1972 and have not called themselves communist at all since 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea

The Workers' Party of Korea, led by a member of the ruling family,[20] holds de facto power in the state and leads the Democratic Front for the Reunification of the Fatherland of which all political officers are required to be a member.[21] Juche, an ideology of self-reliance initiated by the country's first President, Kim Il-sung, became the official state ideology, replacing Marxism–Leninism, when the country adopted a new constitution in 1972.[22][23] In 2009, references to Communism (Chosŏn'gŭl: 공산주의) were removed from the country's constitution.[24]

by Tommy Monk Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:33 pm

More similarities than differences.

NK also calls itself democratic but is nothing of the sort.

You sound like you are trying to defend communism overall.

Desperately trying to re-brand any bad communism as not really communism at all.

by Eilzel Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:27 am

Nobody is defending anything; if you think Cuba is just like China or that China is just like North Korea or certainly Korea anything like Cuba you are deluded; perhaps such simplifications are easier for you to understand but they are badly detached from reality.

by Phoenix Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:58 pm

Sassy wrote:Well, if he can wipe out half his own family, he's not likely to worry about what he does to anyone else. A very weird and wicked man. Given the right circumstances he'd probably have a go at outdoing Hitler.

I think Stalin actually holds the record and of course he to lead a Communist state.

The fact these people can do what they like in the 21st century is an indictment and the UN is yet again powerless to act as China will veto any sanctions or action of any kind. It is about time we warned China that we may reduce our reliance on their goods if they want to support this guy. I would so much like to repatriate jobs in any case.

by Eilzel Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:26 pm

Phoenix wrote:
Sassy wrote:Well, if he can wipe out half his own family, he's not likely to worry about what he does to anyone else. A very weird and wicked man. Given the right circumstances he'd probably have a go at outdoing Hitler.

I think Stalin actually holds the record and of course he to lead a Communist state.

The fact these people can do what they like in the 21st century is an indictment and the UN is yet again powerless to act as China will veto any sanctions or action of any kind. It is about time we warned China that we may reduce our reliance on their goods if they want to support this guy. I would so much like to repatriate jobs in any case.

Actually Mao has a death count at least double that of Stalin- most modest estimates put it at around 50 million; though lower put it at 20 and more liberal figures around 80. Which should give you another Communist to delight your arsenal against communists and socialists- since obviously those of us who define our politics in such are way would in your warped mind approve of such human loss.

Of course the majority of Mao and Stalin's victims were killed by ridiculous social upheavals and hideous labour projects and collectivization. Which is not a defense at all and both were inhuman monsters devoid of empathy.

Whereas pretty much all those killed by Hitler and Nazism were killed due to RW nationalist ideology driving systematic murder on an industrial scale.

^And btw; thanks to careless free market capitalism China (cleverly) now has such a strangle hold over much of the west, which will probably increase in years to come) that we wouldn't dare threaten them in any way; economic or otherwise. Well done us.

by veya_victaous Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:29 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:More similarities than differences.

NK also calls itself democratic but is nothing of the sort.

You sound like you are trying to defend communism overall.

Desperately trying to re-brand any bad communism as not really communism at all.

Chinese Communism is Good, it has proven Highly successful and it has been the largest Communist nation my over my lifetime. Cuba still has better Hospitals than the USA even though they have been under embargo for about 40 years.

The facts suggest there are good and bad leaders in communism and capitalism.
one system moves resources into the hands of a few that control all production, the other attempts to distribute resources in to the hands of the many, pretty easy to tell which one is ethically superior even if it is naive regarding the selfish greed of humans. Capitalism could never be described as Good or Just.. but it does work Neutral

by Guest Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:33 pm

veya_victaous wrote:Cuba and China have completely different results than Russia? WTF are you on about?

NK is not Communist, they even say they have throw away communist ideals, they haven't followed Lenin's teachings since 1972 and have not called themselves communist at all since 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea

The Workers' Party of Korea, led by a member of the ruling family,[20] holds de facto power in the state and leads the Democratic Front for the Reunification of the Fatherland of which all political officers are required to be a member.[21] Juche, an ideology of self-reliance initiated by the country's first President, Kim Il-sung, became the official state ideology, replacing Marxism–Leninism, when the country adopted a new constitution in 1972.[22][23] In 2009, references to Communism (Chosŏn'gŭl: 공산주의) were removed from the country's constitution.[24]

workers party of korea??

doesn't sound communist at all

by Ben Reilly Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:38 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:Cuba and China have completely different results than Russia? WTF are you on about?

NK is not Communist, they even say they have throw away communist ideals, they haven't followed Lenin's teachings since 1972 and have not called themselves communist at all since 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea

The Workers' Party of Korea, led by a member of the ruling family,[20] holds de facto power in the state and leads the Democratic Front for the Reunification of the Fatherland of which all political officers are required to be a member.[21] Juche, an ideology of self-reliance initiated by the country's first President, Kim Il-sung, became the official state ideology, replacing Marxism–Leninism, when the country adopted a new constitution in 1972.[22][23] In 2009, references to Communism (Chosŏn'gŭl: 공산주의) were removed from the country's constitution.[24]

workers party of korea??

doesn't sound communist at all

USA PATRIOT Act? That must be a very patriotic law!

by Guest Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:55 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

workers party of korea??

doesn't sound communist at all

USA PATRIOT Act? That must be a very patriotic law!

it is

its designed to bypass little left wing pussys like you and get down to the serious job of protecting America

by Ben Reilly Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:26 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

workers party of korea??

doesn't sound communist at all

USA PATRIOT Act? That must be a very patriotic law!

it is

its designed to bypass little left wing pussys like you and get down to the serious job of protecting America

Leaving aside (once again) your childish name calling, many different groups, from conservative to liberal here in America, believe the PATRIOT act violates the U.S. constitution, specifically by allowing the government to spy on its own citizens. Does that sound patriotic to you?

by Guest Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:00 pm

Good evening Folks.

One way of alleviating the tensions & problems in countries like North Korea & Iran is to keep the Americans noses out.For all they do is stir up trouble,send their carriers to the area & then talk a load of crap in congress.

Nothing ever improves with US involvement....it just gets worse & never ends.

by Guest Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:05 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

it is

its designed to bypass little left wing pussys like you and get down to the serious job of protecting America

Leaving aside (once again) your childish name calling, many different groups, from conservative to liberal here in America, believe the PATRIOT act violates the U.S. constitution, specifically by allowing the government to spy on its own citizens. Does that sound patriotic to you?

ever heard of the homegrown terrorist??

by Ben Reilly Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:12 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

it is

its designed to bypass little left wing pussys like you and get down to the serious job of protecting America

Leaving aside (once again) your childish name calling, many different groups, from conservative to liberal here in America, believe the PATRIOT act violates the U.S. constitution, specifically by allowing the government to spy on its own citizens. Does that sound patriotic to you?

ever heard of the homegrown terrorist??

Of course -- the right-wing Christian groups are responsible for more than 90 percent of the terrorist attacks on the U.S. But we get them without defying our own constitution; to do otherwise would be unpatriotic. The point is that things don't always match their names.

by Guest Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:13 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

ever heard of the homegrown terrorist??

Of course -- the right-wing Christian groups are responsible for more than 90 percent of the terrorist attacks on the U.S. But we get them without defying our own constitution; to do otherwise would be unpatriotic. The point is that things don't always match their names.

didn't know it was right wing christian groups that attacked fort hood or brought down the twin towers or tried to blow up times square in NY or smashed up the Boston marathon

naughty Christians naughty

by veya_victaous Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:15 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_God_(United_States)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorist

During the twentieth century, members of groups such as the Army of God began executing attacks against abortion clinics and doctors across the United States.[57][58][59] A number of terrorist attacks were attributed by Bruce Hoffman to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ.[60] A group called Concerned Christians were deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999; they believed that their deaths would "lead them to heaven".[61][62]

The motive for anti-abortionist Scott Roeder murdering Wichita doctor George Tiller on May 31, 2009 was a belief that abortion is not only immoral, but also a form of murder under "God's law", irrespective of "man's law" in any country, and that this belief went "hand in hand" with his religious beliefs.[63][64] The group supporting Roeder proclaimed that any force used to protect the life of a born child is "legitimate to protect the life of an unborn child", and called on all Christians to "rise up" and "take action" against threats to Christianity and to unborn life.[65] Eric Robert Rudolph carried out the Centennial Olympic Park bombing in 1996, as well as subsequent attacks on an abortion clinic and on a lesbian nightclub. Michael Barkun, a professor at Syracuse University, considers Rudolph to likely fit the definition of a Christian terrorist. James A. Aho, a professor at Idaho State University, argues that religious considerations inspired Rudolph only in part.[66]

Hutaree was a Christian militia group based in Adrian, Michigan. In 2010, after an FBI agent infiltrated the group a federal grand jury in Detroit indicted nine of its members on charges of seditious conspiracy to the use of improvised explosive devices, teaching the use of explosive materials, and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence.[67] On March 28, 2012, the conspiracy charges were dismissed.[68] Terrorism scholar Aref M. Al-Khattar has listed The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord, Defensive Action, The Freemen Community, and some "Christian militia" as groups that "can be placed under the category of far-right-wing terrorism" that "has a religious (Christian) component".[69]

Wait

which was the religion that thought blowing your self up gets you to Heaven????

before you answer remember whatever defense you give applies equally to moderate muslims Cool

by Tommy Monk Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:14 pm

Since communist soviet union collapsed and they adopted a more capitalist ideology, and China has been increasingly capitalist in recent years with its whole economic outlook, it is nonsense to claim any success or positive outcome is down to communism.

Whereas NK is still strictly communist and the situation as described in OP is the result of this, as was much the same when USSR and China were strictly communist too!

by veya_victaous Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:12 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Since communist soviet union collapsed and they adopted a more capitalist ideology, and China has been increasingly capitalist in recent years with its whole economic outlook, it is nonsense to claim any success or positive outcome is down to communism.

Whereas NK is still strictly communist and the situation as described in OP is the result of this, as was much the same when USSR and China were strictly communist too!

Not every Communist has to follow Some Russian Guy, China is closer to Communism that anything else, they openly say they don’t follow any of the Russian communists they follow Chinese communism, NK is not communist they don't call themselves that, and the rule like a Heredity Feudal system. China is communist and calls itself that. China Gov't still owns half or more of everything, and the leading political party is the CCP "Chinese Communist Party". Their Success was the highly communist ideals of very high pensions, and owning half of all business to pay for them. That is why they avoided the GFC Pensioners still had money and were still buys so it kept their economy going.

by Tommy Monk Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:43 pm

Owning ONLY half of everything now kind of proves my point.

And NK also calls itself 'democratic' republic.

"In feudalism, your wealth is directly tied to your popularity and fealty to the ruling family. In communism, your wealth is directly tied to your popularity and fealty to the ruling political party.
They're totally different and not similar at all."

by Tommy Monk Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:53 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Tommy, I really don't think you have many politicians (if any) who want to turn the U.K. into a Stalinist-style dictatorship.

And you are basing that opinion on what exactly??

Wishful thinking?

Stereotypical perspective on UK by Americans in general??

Do you know how many current, recent and previous high ranking UK labour politicians were strong supporters and card carrying members of communism in the 70's? (As well as before and after then??)

by Ben Reilly Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:59 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Tommy, I really don't think you have many politicians (if any) who want to turn the U.K. into a Stalinist-style dictatorship.

And you are basing that opinion on what exactly??

Wishful thinking?

Stereotypical perspective on UK by Americans in general??

Do you know how many current, recent and previous high ranking UK labour politicians were strong supporters and card carrying members of communism in the 70's? (As well as before and after then??)

No, just my general belief that only a very small minority of people would support having a genocidal totalitarian in charge of every aspect of their life < facepalm >

by Tommy Monk Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:30 am

So a generalised opinion based on wishful thinking and devoid of any actual knowledge or facts about the well known and documented history and extent of UK labour politicians being communist members and supporters???

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