Foreign students barred from Australian MP internships over spying fears

by Guest Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:53 pm

Australia has barred foreign university students from interning in MPs’ offices following concerns about alleged Chinese espionage and interference in domestic affairs.

The internships are arranged by the Australian National University, which gives course credits to participating students.

But foreign citizens have been barred from taking up the internships following complaints by some MPs about “behind-the-scenes access enjoyed by Chinese students”, according to a report in The Australian Financial Review.

Individual MPs will still be able to offer informal internships and work experience to foreign students.

Australia is one of the world’s most popular destinations for international students.

In April, there were more than 500,000 foreign students at Australian educational institutions, about 30 per cent of whom were from China.

But there have been growing concerns in Australia about alleged meddling by China in domestic politics and at university campuses.

Malcolm Turnbull, Australia’s prime minister, recently passed tough measures to combat foreign interference, including a ban on foreign political donations and a requirement that lobbyists from abroad register their interests.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/12/foreign-students-barred-australian-mp-internships-spying-fears/

by Original Quill Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:48 pm

It's all over the world:

FBI News wrote:Operation Ghost Stories

Inside the Russian Spy Case

The arrests of 10 Russian spies last year provided a chilling reminder that espionage on U.S. soil did not disappear when the Cold War ended. The highly publicized case also offered a rare glimpse into the sensitive world of counterintelligence and the FBI’s efforts to safeguard the nation from those who would steal our vital secrets.

Our case against the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) operatives—dubbed Operation Ghost Stories—went on for more than a decade. Today we are releasing dozens of still images, surveillance video clips, and documents related to the investigation as part of a Freedom of Information Act request.

Although the SVR “illegals,” as they were called, never got their hands on any classified documents, their intent from the start was serious, well-funded by the SVR, and far-ranging.

“The Russian government spent significant funds and many years training and deploying these operatives,” said one of our counterintelligence agents who worked on the case. “No government does that without expecting a return on its investment.”

Our agents and analysts watched the deep-cover operatives as they established themselves in the U.S. (some by using stolen identities) and went about leading seemingly normal lives—getting married, buying homes, raising children, and assimilating into American society.

Using surveillance and sophisticated techniques, aided by support from intelligence analysts, investigators gathered information to understand the threat posed by the spies as well as their methods, or tradecraft.

The deep-cover Russian spies may not have achieved their objective, but they were not idle. They collected information and transmitted it back to Russia, and they were actively engaged in what is known in the spy business as “spotting and assessing.”

They identified colleagues, friends, and others who might be vulnerable targets, and it is possible they were seeking to co-opt people they encountered in the academic environment who might one day hold positions of power and influence.

Perhaps the most famous example of this tactic—the Cambridge Five—took place in Great Britain. Soviet intelligence “talent spotters” were able to recruit Cambridge University students in the 1930s—including future spy Kim Philby—who would later rise to power in the British government and become Soviet operatives during World War II and into the 1950s.

“We believe the SVR illegals may well have hoped to do the same thing here,” said a counterintelligence agent.

The SVR was in it for the long haul. The illegals were content to wait decades to obtain their objective, which was to develop sources of information in U.S. policymaking circles.

Although they didn’t achieve that objective, the agent said, “without us there to stop them, given enough time they would have eventually become successful.”

After years of gathering intelligence and making sure we knew who all the players were, we arrested the illegals on June 27, 2010. Weeks later, they pled guilty in federal court to conspiring to serve as unlawful agents of the Russian Federation within the U.S.

The plea represented the culmination of a remarkable effort on the part of countless Bureau personnel, including agents, analysts, surveillance teams, linguists, and others.

“Operation Ghost Stories sends a message to foreign intelligence services that espionage threats to the U.S. will not be tolerated,” our agent said. “The FBI’s counterintelligence mission is to identify, disrupt, and defeat the activities of foreign espionage agents, and we take that job very seriously.”

Usually, the critical work of our Counterintelligence Division is carried out in conjunction with our partners in the U.S. intelligence community with the utmost secrecy. Because the public rarely hears about those efforts, it would be easy to forget how real the threat of espionage is.

“And the threat is not limited to the Russians,” the agent said. “There are a lot of foreign services who want what we have, and that’s why we have agents and analysts in FBI field offices across the country working with other intelligence community partners every day to address these threats.”

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/operation-ghost-stories-inside-the-russian-spy-case

SVR targets and places operatives in positions where they will be able to gather the most information, and perhaps cause the most damage. Some even reach the position of elected official themselves. For example, given his 'midnight run to the White House', some question whether House Intelligence Committee Chair Devon Nunes is not acting on behalf of the Russians.

Highest on the list are government and academic jobs, such as government internships and research associates, which place operatives in positions to learn and send back classified information.

by veya_victaous Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:08 am

yep, can't have China Competing with the USA in the interference on the Australian Gov't

by Original Quill Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:09 pm

veya wrote:yep, can't have China Competing with the USA in the interference on the Australian Gov't

But why does Australia care? In this day of Trump national selfishness, I should think the Ozzies would welcome the competition.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:24 am

Fine example of Australia being like Trump

lol

That progressive Austrlian country banning ethnic people

by veya_victaous Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:36 am

Original Quill wrote:
veya wrote:yep, can't have China Competing with the USA in the interference on the Australian Gov't

But why does Australia care? In this day of Trump national selfishness, I should think the Ozzies would welcome the competition.

Most of us don't, but the current powers are so by selling us out to US corporate interests. Particularly the Right wing, current gov't

China is working behind the scenes to shift power to those that will sell us out to them instead Neutral

by veya_victaous Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:39 am

Didge wrote:Fine example of Australia being like Trump

lol

That progressive Austrlian country banning ethnic people

no, they banned All Foreign Citizens regardless of ethnicity
and Aussie born ethnic Chinese can still do it..

that's why we're better, we do it fairly based on citizenship

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:06 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Didge wrote:Fine example of Australia being like Trump

lol

That progressive Austrlian country banning ethnic people

no, they banned All Foreign Citizens regardless of ethnicity
and Aussie born ethnic Chinese can still do it..

that's why we're better, we do it fairly based on citizenship

lol, so you think xenophobia is fair?

Priceless stupidity

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:27 pm

Didge wrote:lol, so you think xenophobia is fair?

Xenophobia, like equality or discrimination, are words that need context. You don't select a spouse equally, you single out the one that best suits you. It's not equality when you choose one person to marry; it's actually discrimination. But the context is, you only want one spouse.

Likewise, it's not xenophobia to reserve certain privileges to citizens. This is especially true in positions of a critical nature, such as people who might come into contact with classified material.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:06 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:lol, so you think xenophobia is fair?

Xenophobia, like equality or discrimination, are words that need context. You don't select a spouse equally, you single out the one that best suits you. It's not equality when you choose one person to marry; it's actually discrimination. But the context is, you only want one spouse.

Likewise, it's not xenophobia to reserve certain privileges to citizens. This is especially true in positions of a critical nature, such as people who might come into contact with classified material.

That is bullshit, in every aspect

When you choose or select someone to marry, is because you cannot actually choose who you are attracted to. If you could, then no person would be able to decide what sex they were attracted to.

You do realise that, do you not?

So its nothing to do with suiting.

You think Eddie and Ben suited each other, where it had nothing to do with true love?

Seriously?

They were attracted to each other mentally and physically, through love.

So its completely discrimination to privilege certain groups other others

Not surprised you think people should have inequality

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:28 pm

Didge wrote:When you choose or select someone to marry, is because you cannot actually choose who you are attracted to.

Likewise, a person is even less able to choose or select which country one is born into, and becomes a citizen thereof.

It's a matter of context. In the case of handling classified documents or information--a critical occupation--a nation has some expectation that a citizen is more to be trusted than a foreigner.

That's not always the case, but there is a greater risk if such sensitive positions are open to others who have foreign government obligations.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:35 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:When you choose or select someone to marry, is because you cannot actually choose who you are attracted to.

Likewise, a person is even less able to choose or select which country one is born into, and becomes a citizen thereof.

It's a matter of context. In the case of handling classified documents or information--a critical occupation--a nation has some expectation that a citizen is more to be trusted than a foreigner.

That's not always the case, but there is a greater risk if such sensitive positions are open to others who have foreign government obligations.

Really?

You mean like America, where people have always been able to select and be born into a nation, not born from their ethnicity?

So your view is based on trust and again based on parameters you set for them

So lets face it, there is no policiy based on skin colour within the US with this, is there Quill?

Surely, based on your view that the US is racist, then why are then many people white held in carceration on skin colour?

So why is this, that actually. One of the finest forces in the world does not discriminate on skin colour?

Your army or police?

The sad reality is there is racism and sadly even worse you actually create more racism

As you happen to live in one of the most freest countries in the world and yet sadly, you still infight with ridiculous dumb identity politics

Is it not time that you and Trump supporters both grew up?

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:40 pm

Didge wrote:You mean like America, where people have always been able to select and be born into a nation, not born from their ethnicity?

I know of no American who was able to select where, or to whom s/he was born. I know of no human who had such choices.

I know I wasn't even asked.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:You mean like America, where people have always been able to select and be born into a nation, not born from their ethnicity?

I know of no American who was able to select where, or to whom s/he was born. I know of no human who had such choices.

I know I wasn't even asked.

Well I guess you do not get out enought do you

My best friend is Lakota and has more right to live in the US than you do. Yet she would still welcome you

What does that then say about your prejudices?

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:49 pm

Didge wrote:My best friend is Lakota and has more right to live in the US than you do. Yet she would still welcome you

Who said anything about rights? We were talking about choices.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:50 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:My best friend is Lakota and has more right to live in the US than you do. Yet she would still welcome you

Who said anything about rights? We were talking about choices.

Choices?

You never gave her a choice.

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:54 pm

Didge wrote:What does that then say about your prejudices?

Prejudices? If the judgment is intelligent, and based on sound reasoning, it's a wise choice. I think it's reasonable for Australians to limit positions in strategic and critical position, to native born Australians.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:57 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:What does that then say about your prejudices?

Prejudices? If the judgment is intelligent, and based on sound reasoning, it's a wise choice. I think it's reasonable for Australians to limit positions in strategic and critical position, to native born Australians.

So you then actually believe in racism, being that the concept of Australian is no more than a concept?

You do realise you are making the most racist arguments here

I mean native?

Seriously?

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:00 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Who said anything about rights? We were talking about choices.

Choices?

You never gave her a choice.

Exactly. We didn't choose this earth. We didn't choose our continent. We didn't choose our nationality. The conclusion is, some things are not our choice.

When a choice is ours, we praise wise and intelligent choices. I think the Australians have chosen wisely, limiting critical positions to Australians.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:04 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

Choices?

You never gave her a choice.

Exactly. We didn't choose this earth. We didn't choose our continent. We didn't choose our nationality. The conclusion is, some things are not our choice.

When a choice is ours, we praise wise and intelligent choices. I think the Australians have chosen wisely, limiting critical positions to Australians.

Sorry?

So you are saying when we have a choice, its intelligent choices?

What the fuck?

So when Africans choose to enslave and cpature other Africans and sell them to Europeans, that is an intelligent choice for you?

The Australians are no better than their English cousins when it comes to immigration

They are takers, just like you

Here is a picture of my friend

Foreign students barred from Australian MP internships over spying fears 37064505_10216572419359988_36823219939835904_o

Foreign students barred from Australian MP internships over spying fears 37064505_10216572419359988_36823219939835904_o

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:05 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Prejudices? If the judgment is intelligent, and based on sound reasoning, it's a wise choice. I think it's reasonable for Australians to limit positions in strategic and critical position, to native born Australians.

So you then actually believe in racism, being that the concept of Australian is no more than a concept?

You do realise you are making the most racist arguments here

I mean native?

Seriously?

I believe you are confusing nationality with race. There is no racial component to the argument.

The issue is restricting critical positions to those most likely to be loyalists--or, that is to say, not responsible to foreign governments.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:12 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

So you then actually believe in racism, being that the concept of Australian is no more than a concept?

You do realise you are making the most racist arguments here

I mean native?

Seriously?

I believe you are confusing nationality with race. There is no racial component to the argument.

The issue is restricting critical positions to those most likely to be loyalists--or, that is to say, not responsible to foreign governments.

How I am confused?

They are equally concepts?

Loyal?

You are foreign in my book, in regards to my Lakota mate

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:13 pm

Didge wrote:So when Africans choose to enslave and cpature other Africans and sell them to Europeans, that is an intelligent choice for you?

Not at all. To distinguish choices from non-choices says nothing at all about "wise" choices. Wisdom is dependent on relevancy and probabilities.

And to my knowledge, Africans do not figure into Australian government decisions as to critical positions.

I do think that it is wise for Australians to fill critical positions handling classified materials, with Australian citizens. It minimizes the chance of compromise or divided loyalities.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:14 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:So when Africans choose to enslave and cpature other Africans and sell them to Europeans, that is an intelligent choice for you?

Not at all. To distinguish choices from non-choices says nothing at all about "wise" choices. Wisdom is dependent on relevancy and probabilities.

And to my knowledge, Africans do not figure into Australian government decisions as to critical positions.

I do think that it is wise for Australians to fill critical positions handling classified materials, with Australian citizens. It minimizes the chance of compromise or divided loyalities.

So what you are saying is that you are the standard to make wise choices

lol

So what you are saying is you have not a clue on this

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:14 pm

Didge wrote:How I am confused?

Race is not relevant to this particular choice.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:How I am confused?

Race is not relevant to this particular choice.

Its not relevant?

Good to hear

So you would agree "Black lives matter" is racist then?

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:18 pm

Didge wrote:So what you are saying is that you are the standard to make wise choices

No, I said that wisdom is more a matter of relevancy and probability. I caution you to read more carefully, comme d'habitude.

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:21 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Race is not relevant to this particular choice.

Its not relevant?

Good to hear

So you would agree "Black lives matter" is racist then?

"Black lives matter" is more of a humanist cause than racist. Only those who say "black lives do not matter" are racist. After all, blacks are humans.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:22 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:So what you are saying is that you are the standard to make wise choices

No, I said that wisdom is more a matter of relevancy and probability. I caution you to read more carefully, comme d'habitude.

Caution?

Relevance?

I caution you to understand that you might actually be wrong here.

Its how I live

Maybe you should try that

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:24 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

Its not relevant?

Good to hear

So you would agree "Black lives matter" is racist then?

"Black lives matter" is more of a humanist cause than racist. Only those who say "black lives do not matter" are racist. After all, blacks are humans.

How is it a humanist cause when it never actuatlly marches for many people classed as black. Who are murdered also by black people?

Do their lives not matter?

Black lives matters

They are racist, for one simple reason

They claim lives are more valued on skin colour

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:30 pm

Didge wrote:How is it a humanist cause when it never actuatlly mraches for many people classed as black.

I already answered that. Blacks are humans.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:31 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:How is it a humanist cause when it never actuatlly mraches for many people classed as black.

I already answered that. Blacks are humans.

So why are you not treating them as such and wanting to elevate them above others based on their skin colour?

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:34 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I already answered that. Blacks are humans.

So why are you not treating them as such and wanting to elevate them above others based on their skin colour?

Who, Australians? It's not elevating them above others. They are simply protecting state secrets and classified materials. It's a wise move.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:37 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

So why are you not treating them as such and wanting to elevate them above others based on their skin colour?

Who, Australians? It's not elevating them above others. They are simply protecting state secrets and classified materials. It's a wise move.

So who do they allow in on this?

State secrets?

Are not indgeneous people Australian?

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:46 pm

Didge wrote:Are not indgeneous people Australian?

The article speaks of foreign students, not aboriginals:

The Telegraph wrote:Australia has barred foreign university students from interning in MPs’ offices following concerns about alleged Chinese espionage and interference in domestic affairs.

The internships are arranged by the Australian National University, which gives course credits to participating students.

But foreign citizens have been barred from taking up the internships following complaints by some MPs about “behind-the-scenes access enjoyed by Chinese students”...

See, that's where you get into trouble, confusing national interests with racial differences. I think concerns about national interests are quite relevant.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:49 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:Are not indgeneous people Australian?

The article speaks of foreign students, not aboriginals:

Australia has barred foreign university students from interning in MPs’ offices following concerns about alleged Chinese espionage and interference in domestic affairs.

The internships are arranged by the Australian National University, which gives course credits to participating students.

But foreign citizens have been barred from taking up the internships following complaints by some MPs about “behind-the-scenes access enjoyed by Chinese students”...

See, that's where you get into trouble, confusing national interests with racial differences. I think concerns about national interests are quite relevant.

What a dumb argument

Becuase Australians ae foreign students

The only trouble you get into here is one problem

Xenophobia

It means any China student as seen as a fifth column

That is racism, period

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:51 pm

Didge wrote:What a dumb argument

It's your thread.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:52 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:What a dumb argument

It's your thread.

And yet I have left you without an argument

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:56 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

It's your thread.

And yet I have left you without an argument

I wasn't arguing. I was agreeing with the MP's who are being cautious...appropriately so.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:00 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

And yet I have left you without an argument

I wasn't arguing. I was agreeing with the MP's who are being cautious...appropriately so.

How have you any right here?

Its their land

Just as the Jews have a right to their land

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:07 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I wasn't arguing. I was agreeing with the MP's who are being cautious...appropriately so.

How have you any right here?

Its their land

Just as the Jews have a right to their land

It's not about rights...we already settled that. It's about the wisdom of the choice.

I think they are correct to move cautiously. I even posted an article supporting the point.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:09 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

How have you any right here?

Its their land

Just as the Jews have a right to their land

It's not about rights...we already settled that. It's about the wisdom of the choice.

I think they are correct to move cautiously. I even posted an article supporting the point.

Ohhhhhh you say wisdom

Fucking hell, I doubt anyone would take your wisdom buddy

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:13 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

It's not about rights...we already settled that. It's about the wisdom of the choice.

I think they are correct to move cautiously. I even posted an article supporting the point.

Ohhhhhh you say wisdom

Fucking hell, I doubt anyone would take your wisdom buddy

Forget about me. I posted an article by the FBI, in support of the MP's position here. Haven't you read it?? Rolling Eyes

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:14 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

Ohhhhhh you say wisdom

Fucking hell, I doubt anyone would take your wisdom buddy

Forget about me. I posted an article by the FBI, in support of the MP's position here. Haven't read it??

I did foget about you

Hence why I left the floor open to someone with intelligence

by Original Quill Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:16 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Forget about me. I posted an article by the FBI, in support of the MP's position here. Haven't read it??

I did foget about you

Hence why I left the floor open to someone with intelligence

I'm patient. Come back when you've done your research.

by Guest Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:21 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

I did foget about you

Hence why I left the floor open to someone with intelligence

I'm patient. Come back when you've done your research.

My reserach?

Oh please?

Come back when you are not an arse mate

by Original Quill Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:58 am

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I'm patient. Come back when you've done your research.

My reserach?

Oh please?

Come back when you are not an arse mate

Just giving you a chance to read the whole thread before we talk. Gd luck.

by veya_victaous Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:37 am

Didge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Didge wrote:Fine example of Australia being like Trump

lol

That progressive Austrlian country banning ethnic people

no, they banned All Foreign Citizens regardless of ethnicity
and Aussie born ethnic Chinese can still do it..

that's why we're better, we do it fairly based on citizenship

lol, so you think xenophobia is fair?

Priceless stupidity

DO I think that to do an internship for a role, with the federal gov't that you need citizenship to hold the real role, you should be a citizen? ... Yes

it's a RW gov't that's making this rule so I would happily bag them out but .... it is actually a rather sensible rule

it not xenophobic since it has nothing to do with race. Suspect

It doesn't even matter where you were born, as long as you have got citizenship when you apply for the internship.

by veya_victaous Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:41 am

Also it doesn't even make sense for foreigners to do it?
why do an internship on the inner working of Australian gov't if your not Australian and not eligible to hold a role in gov't?

UK and New Zealand are the only 2 with similar enough systems to even be able to take any 'experience value' back home.

by Guest Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:45 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Didge wrote:

lol, so you think xenophobia is fair?

Priceless stupidity

DO I think that to do an internship for a role, with the federal gov't that you need citizenship to hold the real role, you should be a citizen? ... Yes

it's a RW gov't that's making this rule so I would happily bag them out but .... it is actually a rather sensible rule

it not xenophobic since it has nothing to do with race.
It doesn't even matter where you were born, as long as you have got citizenship when you apply for the internship.

The point is, you are on stolen land and have no right to decide who can come there

Only the indegeneous can

Its time we gave back the power to the indegeneous and fucked off out of there, all these Australian twats

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