Negotiations with N. Korea a now complete failure

Trump, the self-declared grand negotiator, is failing before he gets started.  After everything appeared all nicey-nice--Rocketman gave the captured Americans back, pussy-grabber generously kissed his ass, meetings were set up for 12 June in Singapore.  

Unfortunately, North Korea has cancelled Wednesday's high-level talks with South Korea because of anger over its joint military exercises with the US.  North Korea also has threatened its talks in Singapore with the US.  http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44133308

During the campaign Trump bragged about watta great negotiator he is.  He promised to apply his skills internationally, pledging greater results than his predecessor.  Now his façade has sort of fallen like a flat pancake.  He has broken a year old nuclear accord with Iran, with no replacement anticipated, and he has done everything to kill a deal with North Korea.

It appears that Trump's idea of negotiation is like his idea of marriage--find 'em, feel 'em, fuck 'em and forget 'em.  And high-tail it outta there if her father and brothers show up.  

Exactly, Lurker.

Original Quill wrote:Watch what happens...

I mentioned, musing the possibilities.  I’ll never forget the words of didge:

Didge wrote:Not by the looks of things and on that you could ber very wrong and I doubt what happens to Iran, will have any bearing on North Korea. If anything it could push further North Korea so look to come to the table

I had my doubts:

Original Quill wrote:North Korea will never come to the table now. Watching the US failure to perform with Iran, it knows the US does not keep its word.

I heard didge say:

Didge wrote:Pompeo heads to North Korea ahead of Trump-Kim talks

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44048340

I responded:

Original Quill wrote:Plumpeo has no formal experience as a diplomat.  He was a mere congressman as recently as last year.

He'll be on the doorstep when North Korea slams the door on the US.  So what?  The North Koreans have played us before...every season we fall for it.

It's good to be prescient.

Maybe Quill should actually read his own link

The BBC's South Korea correspondent Laura Bicker says the wording of the statement showed North Korea was casting doubt over talks, rather than saying they were about to be cancelled.

But the US was quick to resist any suggestion that the summit was now in doubt.


"We will continue to plan the meeting," a state department spokeswoman told reporters soon after the news of the cancelled talks broke.


She added that the US had received "no notification" of a change in the North's position.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44133308

Would you like a tissue Quill, to help get that scramble egg off your face mate?

Trump was so impressed with himself as a negotiator, that he forgot to ask the cardinal question of all negotiators: What do they want??

Trump asks for complete denuclearization. He has no idea what N. Korea wants, yet he's already doing his victory dance.

Trump has this notion that 3 rd-worlders all will settle for beads and trinkets...remember tossing paper towels to Puerto Ricans? But to a country already with nuclear power, beads and trinkets won't do.

Now, Trump has 30,000 troops in Korea. So, Kim Jong Un says, with a sly smile, we might be able to do business with them. Or, we'll just walk away...

Punked again...


This guy Trump believes his own shit, and that would be humorous if it weren't dangerous.

So I guess Quill needs more than one

Here you go mate

Didge wrote:So I guess Quill needs more than one

Here you go mate

Embarrassing for ya, huh?  I've got more coming tomorrow.  Meanwhile, watch your boy Trump suck eggs.

He doesn't know whether to tout his negotiation skills, or go back to calling Kim Jong Un the Rocketman.

“Oh, what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practice to deceive.”
                                — Walter Scott

I said originally Kim was playing Trump.
The USA doesn't really have anything that NK wants that it couldn't get easier from China

Making the USA look like an Ass, makes China look Reliable and in these turbulent times of Trump's trade wars and Breaking of international agreements and commitments via twitter, it won't take much to convince the economies of Asia they are better off under Chinese influence than US influence.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:So I guess Quill needs more than one

Here you go mate

Embarrassing for ya, huh?  I've got more coming tomorrow.  Meanwhile, watch your boy Trump suck eggs.

He doesn't know whether to tout his negotiation skills, or go back to calling Kim Jong Un the Rocketman.

“Oh, what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practice to deceive.”
                                — Walter Scott

I dont support Trump and never have

The point is you screwed up badly

Didge wrote:I dont support Trump and never have

The point is you screwed up badly

I know, that's what you say. But your position consistently supports Trump. Eventually you'll have to own it.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:I dont support Trump and never have

The point is you screwed up badly

I know, that's what you say.  But your position consistently supports Trump.  Eventually you'll have to own it.

Really?

For a start, I am British and see both the Republicans and the Democrats as utterly useless

Its time the Americans got away from two distinctly and damaging parties, that continually seek to devide the US people.

Again, I have made it clear that I think Trump is an egotistical unhinged loon.

What I do is mock you over how he could be responsible for bring about peace in North Korea

To me, the US have not learnt yet to get along with each other and that is half the problem with the US

Didge wrote:For a start, I am British and see both the Republicans and the Democrats as utterly useless

That's a cop-out didge, as the unfortunate Mr. Blair proved.  It's a small world, and getting smaller.  Like it or not, you are a part of the world that Trump creates and controls.

The time is gone when you can embrace Trump's positions--disavowing the Iran accord, for example--yet still reject Trump.  They are interconnected, if only by the coincidence that the same idiot created both, for the same idiotic reasons.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:For a start, I am British and see both the Republicans and the Democrats as utterly useless

That's a cop-out didge, as the unfortunate Mr. Blair proved.  It's a small world, and getting smaller.  Like it or not, you are a part of the world that Trump creates and controls.

The time is gone when you can embrace Trump's positions--disavowing the Iran accord, for example--yet still reject Trump.  They are interconnected, if only by the coincidence that the same idiot created both, for the same idiotic reasons.

Really? As I was against the Iran accord, when Obama was in power. To say this now makes me a Trmup supporter, when I am against many of his policies, shows how abusrd you are being and poorly trying to deflect.

I mean based on your reasonong and how countless Presidents have all supported in their Presidency, to move the embassy in Israel to Jerusalem. Would mean, because Trump did. Then Presidents like Obama support Trump. That is how absurd your claim is.

I am against many of his policies, espcially his internal policies and given the chance would never vote for him.

All you are doing is yet misdirection to the fact you completely screwed up

You need to address the fact you cannot even read your own link properly

Didge wrote:As I was against the Iran accord, when Obama was in power.

What is your alternative?  Let Iran go ahead and build a nuclear weapon?

Oh, you think a small raid by Israel will do the trick?  It won't.  Iran has got a little more heft than Syria.

And Israel is about two shakes from being cut loose by the US.  The Israeli lebensraum is not a smart move.  Nobody here on the left--including the Jewish left--likes Netanyahu, and in 6 months I wouldn't put my hard earned cash on his chances.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:As I was against the Iran accord, when Obama was in power.

What is your alternative?  Let Iran go ahead and build a nuclear weapon?

Oh, you think a small raid by Israel will do the trick?  It won't.  Iran has got a little more heft than Syria.

And Israel is about two shakes from being cut loose by the US.  The Israeli lebensraum is not a smart move.  Nobody here on the left--including the Jewish left--likes Netanyahu, and in 6 months I wouldn't put my hard earned cash on his chances.

You see this is why you are not serious about debate when you invoke Nazism to Israel policy, when there is no comparrison. Its done to make out Israel is as hateful as Nazism and to be seen as evil. Its why such lies are done to promote hatred and do nothing for peace. Its only dspouted, in order to make hating Israwl acceptable.

You want to have a serious debate, then I suggest you stop promoting crap to misdirct

Israel and the US has strong ties, and is there only real major ally in the Middle East. Even with the Democrats in power, that friendship will remain.

As to Iran, Israel will never allow it to build any nukes. It made sure this never happened in Syria and Iraq. Can you imagine what would have happened if Israel had not of taken out the facility in Syria? Where Assad uses chemical weapons against his own people? Like I say, people should be thanking Israel more than they realise for how they by such bold acts, end up saving far more lives in the long term.

Didge wrote:You see this is why you are not serious about debate when you invoke Nazism to Israel policy, when there is no comparrison.

No, you are the one who can't forget the holocaust.  You cannot cease to import 1932 victimhood into 21st-century reality.  You still call it antisemitism, because you like the ring of suffering that term brings forth.

You fail to acknowledge that things have changed--in fact, they have reversed.  Now we have Israel--the 21st-century, European-based power--beating up on essentially tribal entities.  It's the modern version of Oz and the aboriginals, or America with the Indians.  Kick-ass and kill babies, because you can.

Contain them.  Shut them up...and away.  Restrict them to reservations--isn't Gaza a modern day Wounded Knee?  And take all their prize land and turn them into condos for your "chosen people". As Netanahu said, quite openly, the settlements will never be returned.

There's a reason why you harken back to the Nazi days...it's the last time the Israeli side was truly innocent.

Debate over, until you start wanting to have a debate and not injecting bullshit.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:You see this is why you are not serious about debate when you invoke Nazism to Israel policy, when there is no comparrison.

There's a reason why you harken back to the Nazi days...it's the last time the Israeli side was truly innocent.

To prove you are just making up crap and even worse now seem to think Jews Globally represent Israel

As Isreal did not state independence until 1948, 3 years after the fall of the Nazi's

Israel was thus not at war with Nazi Germany

Nazi Germany had declared global war against the Jews

No nation innocent in wars. What is just. Is being able to defend yourself against those who wish to eradicate you and Israel is surrounded by such enemies that do wish to destroy them. Where Israel could literally destroy its enemies ten times over and never has.

Anyway, as much as some Israeli policy is poor to say the least and should be condemned. Its i no way comparable to Nazi policy. To claim it is comparable, is nothing more than a complete lie and done so to make and view Israel as evil.

Hence why such views are rightly deemed Antisemitic

And I am not going to pander to someone who spouts continual crap, on what could be a decent debate

You just ruined it with spouting hateful babble Quill

Didge wrote:As Isreal did not state independence until 1948, 3 years after the fall of the Nazi's

I purposely didn't say "Israel". I said "Israeli side". The equivalency predates the statehood of Israel.

Didge wrote:Debate over, until you start wanting to have a debate and not injecting bullshit.

The debate never began, didge. You always run away from your adversary's point, taking refuge behind some argument over the example, or the metaphor, or some extraneous matter.

This particular issue was raised by my use of the term, LEBENSRAUM. An old term going back to the 19th-century, you leapt to the conclusion that it raised the Nazi discussion. I corrected you, noting that you were the one who was always quick to borrow Nazi-era symbols...you love to wallow in the psudo-sympathy (you think) it gives you.

And so here we are. Have you got a point, or are you just going to sit there and bleed?

And he does it again

Spouting lies, when the problem with Israel and Palestine is over contested land. As the Palestinians did not recognise the 1947 partition plan either. There never was a Palestinian state and thus to claim, Lebunsraum as actual policy. When Israel has withdrawn its settlements of the Sinai and Gaza, shows emphatically such a view is blatantly absurd. 

Now Israel has allowed settlement, which is allowed under the League of nations of Jews, into Sumaria and Judea. The later, the birth place and genesis of the Jews. The Palestinians disagree, but hey, they never agreed to the partition plan in 1937 and 1947. They did to the creation of Jordan, which was 72% of the British Mandate of Palestine, formely promised to the Jews.

People even claim that the settlements are a hinderance to peace?

How so?

Is not a future Palestinian state allowed to have a minority Jewish population?

Is the view, that the new state, must be Jew free?

So of the land promised, the Palestinian Jews were still denied what was left, they accepted the 1937 partition plan



Arabs rejected

They accepted the 1947 partition plan



The Arabs again rejected

This was what was promised to the Jews.



Now how much land did Israel actually get in the end?

Do the maths

Then we have land israel has given up for peace





So again it emphatically proves that agin you are lying and why the debate was over the moment you failed to read your own link

Now have the last word, by all means, what is proven is you are so ignorant of history, its beyond belief

Byee

Today's joint press conference with President Moon of South Korea shed a little more doubt on any talks with North Korea.

Trump sets up his excuse: accuses second meeting with China convinced Kim Jung Un to back off.

You're being played, Donald.  Kim's a better negotiator, ya patsy.  

So, now that's two nuclear deals that Trump doesn't have.  Good negotiator, eh?  

I see Quill is still desperate the peace process will break down

Good thing it has not mind

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44207986

I'm just giving a factual report. If Rome is going to burn a second time, it's good to know, don't ya think?

Although, I do get a giggle outta Trump's failures. How's the legislative agenda, Donald? Still battin' 0 for 10?

Original Quill wrote:I'm just giving a factual report.  If Rome is going to burn a second time, it's good to know, don't ya think?

Although, I do get a giggle outta Trump's failures.  How's the legislative agenda, Donald?  Still battin' 0 for 10?

What factual report?

All I see is you jerking off constantly, in the hope a peace deal will fall through

That is very evident over your glaring errors on thos over the last couple of weeks

I get an even bigger giggle out of you constantly putting your foot in it

AP wrote:Trump suggests summit with NKorea's Kim could be delayed

ZEKE MILLER and CATHERINE LUCEY
,Associated Press•May 22, 2018

WASHINGTON (AP) — Failing Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon suggested Tuesday that a planned historic meeting with North Korea's Kim Jong Un could be delayed. He said, "There's a very substantial chance that it won't work out" for June 12.

Trump raised the possibility that the meeting could be pushed back during a White House meeting with South Korea President Moon Jae-in, trying to coordinate strategy as concerns mounted over ensuring a successful outcome for the North Korea summit.

Trump told reporters: "If it doesn't happen, maybe it happens later," reflecting recent setbacks in efforts to bring about reconciliation between the two Koreas. The North pulled out of planned peace talks with the South last week, objecting to long-scheduled joint military exercises between U.S. and Republic of Korea forces. And the North threatened to abandon the planned Trump-Kim meeting over U.S. insistence on denuclearizing the peninsula, issuing a harshly worded missive that the White House dismissed as a negotiating ploy.

"There are certain conditions that we want," Trump said Tuesday. He added if they aren't met, "we won't have the meeting." He declined to elaborate on those conditions.

Trump said "there's a very substantial chance" that the meeting won't take place on June 12. "That doesn't mean it won't work out over a period of time," he said. "But it may not work out for June 12. But there is a good chance that we'll have the meeting."

OK, to be polite, I won't start blaring I told you so, I told you so!

But any rational person, with any intelligence whatsoever, could have figured this out.  Trump has a twisted perspective because he has always been fed with a silver spoon.  But there are some basic questions before a transaction is to take place.  Any decent negotiator puts himself into the other guy's shoes.

One, what do I want?  Do I want complete and immediate denuclearization, or will I accept some incremental stages in between?  If I want the big enchilada, I've got to be prepared to give, and give big time. Am I willing to remove my 30,000 troops in South Korea?

Two, what do you want?  The North Koreans are not native Americans, willing to trade for beads and trinkets.  Don't expect that North Korea will give up all their nukes for trade privileges.  They built up their arsenal as a deterrence.  If you don't serve up what the nukes serve up--complete security--then they won't be willing to trade.

The fact that you fooked Iran over means you start with a net deficit on reputation.  I'd give this negotiation a 1 in 100 chance of succeeding.  Gd. luck.

Didge wrote:I see Quill is still desperate the peace process will break down

Good thing it has not mind

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44207986

And I had already posted this and again Quill does not read links

So, it might be delayed

The ffact that you want Trump to ffail more over peace in Korea, is what is troubling beyond belieff and shows the warped mentality of the radical left.

So again nothing changes, the meeting has not been cancelled and the North Koreans are still going ahead dismantling their nuke facility

So this is not about peace for you, its only ever been about Trump

wow

Didge wrote:The ffact that you want Trump to ffail more over peace in Korea, is what is troubling beyond belieff and shows the warped mentality of the radical left.

It's really not a matter of what the left wants.  It's that the ship has no rudder.  The train has no engineer.  The result is going to be that Trump will undo all efforts of the past decade at peace and nuclear nonproliferation, and have nothing to show for it except his own ego gratification.

With a nuclear North Korea and a nuclear Iran--and let's not forget Pakistan--do you really think that the world will be a safer place?  Righy's have assured that the next war--no doubt provoked by one of Israel's harmless strikes--will be the final one.

We will have satisfied your RW egos, while holding our dead children in our arms. But hey...we looked tough while doing it.

And again when Quill goes into looney Cathy Newman mode, the debate ends again

North Korea is Ultra left and has had nukes for sometime. Hence the need to bring about peace as has Pakistan had nukes for sometime. Which is a danger if they fall into the hands of the Jihadi's Though India is a counter measure to this.

Israel has stopped Syria and Iraq having them, thus saving lives

It will do the same with Iran, which has a leadership which is antisemitic and arms terrorist organisations. Intent on wiping out the Jews. Hence peace there is near impossible, until it gives up its hate.

Now, I do not care who pulls off a peace deal in North Korea. Whether that be China, Japan, France, the UK etc, to bring peace there, but you are not interested in that. All you care about is Trump, and not any peace. That is warped.

You spout bollocks like baby killing, whilst the reality is you do not give a stuff about babies dying. As millions die each year and from many things, that are not war and what do you do about that?

Nothing. Your view is to do nothing and you have made this very clear not to be involved in other countries and yet many need help, because countless children die, without medica help and resources in order to feed people. And you call me the baby killer?

Wow

North Korea is not ultra 'Left'
to even compare NK to Western Left or Right shows how fucking deluded someone is and clearly a pointless partisan. with Zero comprehension of politics, business or negations.


TO even be talking about a peace deal is fucking stupid, how little understanding about what is going on can you have?
NK is at peace with China (they are allies) it is a peace with Russia.
NK are not Shooting Civilians with sniper rifles though tear gas.
More focus needs to be on Stopping War criminals having nukes, Israel has no more right to than another war monger in the middle east

So you have made You view Clear, YOU are a racist that support illegal violence against those with differing perspectives to your Angloshpere totalitarianism.

Didge wrote:North Korea is Ultra left and has had nukes for sometime. Hence the need to bring about peace as has Pakistan had nukes for sometime. Which is a danger if they fall into the hands of the Jihadi's Though India is a counter measure to this.

Israel has stopped Syria and Iraq having them, thus saving lives

Didge, you use old, hackneyed perceptions of the world, which tends to disqualify you as a critic.  North Korea is "ultra left"??  India is a counter measure?  Let's work through this:

NK is left because it is supported by Russia and China, right?  Russia (and China) are left because they are Bolshevik, right?  And while that's not Marxism, it's close enough for government work, right?  

Look at all those loose, erroneous connections!  Shame on your tiny intellect.  It's all in the past.  They go back to 1883, when Marx died and could no longer defend himself from fools.

Put aside that communism is not even leftish, and that Bolshevism is not Marxism.  North Korea exists because of geopolitical maneuvers to create buffer states...same thing, incidentally, that Putin is doing today with Ukraine and Syria.

Your adoption of 1950's perceptions of the world reveals a lazy straggling of your ability to understand the current situation.  Iraq never had nuclear weapons, and wasn't near having them.  We wasted 10-years war, and some $17-trillion proving that.  It is estimated the same for Syria.

We, the US, control the nukes in Pakistan.  So there are only two places where real trouble could come from: Iran and North Korea, right?

Trump, in a mere three months, has managed to queer dozens of years of negotiations to calm those threats.  His self-confessed amateurism, coupled with his inability to either read or think, has left the US to drift in open seas.  Iran had truly stopped producing nuclear weapons...and for no reason whatsoever, Trump for purely domestic grunts, walks in and screws up the Iran deal.  Then he goads "Rocketman" and creates a Pacific front to the nuclear threat.  We are about three heartbeats away from the worst of the Cold War.

I have chalked up Trump as stupid.  But, I must confess, rarely has anyone seen such clever fuck-ups.  Makes me think Putin is afoot, and his stooge Trump  is puppy-dogging behind in his footsteps, eager for a Milk bone puppy bite now and then.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:North Korea is Ultra left and has had nukes for sometime. Hence the need to bring about peace as has Pakistan had nukes for sometime. Which is a danger if they fall into the hands of the Jihadi's Though India is a counter measure to this.

Israel has stopped Syria and Iraq having them, thus saving lives

Didge, you use old, hackneyed perceptions of the world, which tends to disqualify you as a critic.  North Korea is "ultra left"??  India is a counter measure?  Let's work through this:

Didge wrote:Oh so you are talking about me again.

NK is left because it is supported by Russia and China, right?  Russia (and China) are left because they are Bolshevik, right?  And while that's not Marxism, it's close enough for government work, right?  

Didge wrote:They are ultra left wing

Your adoption of 1950's perceptions of the world reveals a phenomenal straggling of your ability to understand the current situation.  Iraq never had nuclear weapons, and wasn't near having them.  We wasted 10-years war, and some $17-trillion proving that.  It is estimated the same for Syria.

Didge wrote:Deleted loads as it was gibberish
Saddam and Assad both tried to make Nuke weapons
Israel prevented this by taking out their facilities
Both have used chemical weapons
The world, whilst openly condemning Israel, in private heaved a huge sigh of relief. That Israel had thwarted to unpredicatble dictators from gaining Nuke weapons

We, the US, control the nukes in Pakistan.  So there are only two places where real trouble could come from: Iran and North Korea, right?

Didge wrote:Jackanory.

I have chalked up Trump as stupid.  But, I must confess, rarely has anyone seen such clever fuck-ups.  Makes me think Putin is afoot, and his stooge Trump  is puppy-dogging behind in his footsteps, eager for a Milk bone puppy bite now and then.

Again who cares about Trump. All I am interested is a threat to world peace being neutralized
If North Korea is going to take down its nuke facilities. Then that is a first step in the right direction

Didge wrote:Again who cares about Trump. All I am interested is a threat to world peace being neutralized

Then you should care about Trump! He's the threat to world peace.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:Again who cares about Trump. All I am interested is a threat to world peace being neutralized

Then you should care about Trump!  He's the threat to world peace.

Is he?

I dont think so at all.

His ego is what matters to him more. He is clearly more interested in his image. He is an idiot and I see nothing that would indicate anything that would drag the world into conflict

The real threat now more than North Korea, is Putin.

Didge wrote:His ego is what matters to him more. He is clearly more interested in his image. He is an idiot and I see nothing that would indicate anything that would drag the world into conflict

Ahh, but is Trump being played?  Perhaps for a Trump Tower in Moscow?  Or a 19.5% share of Rosnef Oil?  Listening to my parting words:

Original Quill wrote:I have chalked up Trump as stupid.  But, I must confess, rarely has anyone seen such clever fuck-ups.  Makes me think Putin is afoot, and his stooge Trump  is puppy-dogging behind in his footsteps, eager for a Milk bone puppy bite now and then.

Trump admits he doesn't read.  We know from experience, he doesn't think.  Isn't he the perfect tool for an ex-Director of the KGB?

Politico wrote:Putin has allowed the FSB to absorb pieces of the old KGB, chopped off when Boris Yeltsin tried to dismantle the once all-powerful Soviet security apparatus in the early 1990s. Under Putin, the FSB regained control over Russia’s borders, border troops, and electronic intelligence gathering. At the same time, former KGB men began their takeover of every institution of state, as well as Russian businesses.

Putin has allowed the FSB to absorb pieces of the old KGB, chopped off when Boris Yeltsin tried to dismantle the once all-powerful Soviet security apparatus in the early 1990s. Under Putin, the FSB regained control over Russia’s borders, border troops, and electronic intelligence gathering. At the same time, former KGB men began their takeover of every institution of state, as well as Russian businesses.

It's but a small step to take the apparatus of the KGB-FSB international, utilizing an idiot with lots of resources and no intelligence, to gain control of another nation altogether.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:His ego is what matters to him more. He is clearly more interested in his image. He is an idiot and I see nothing that would indicate anything that would drag the world into conflict

Ahh, but is he being played?  Perhaps for a Trump Tower in Moscow?  Or a 19.5% share of Rosnef Oil?  Listening to my parting words:

Original Quill wrote:Only time will tell if he is being played
Its come out to today that Kim Jong-un is worried about an army coup

Trump admits he doesn't read.  We know from experience, he doesn't think.  Isn't he the perfect tool for an ex-Director of the KGB?

It's but a small step to take the apparatus of the KGB international, utilizing an idiot with lots of resources and no intelligence, to gain control of another nation altogether.

Well Ihave no doubt that Putin influenced the Presidential election, but what Putin did not bargain for is the fact that trump is unhinged and that he cannot control him. That is evidence by the fact Trump has retaliated in Syria and back the UK, with the attempted assassination attempt. So Trump has the potential to be certainly dangereous, but again its his ego that keeps him from doing something very stupid. I also think he thinks he is able to play Putin.

The reality is though, Putin is a real threat and has no qualms about doing what he pleases in many western nations.

Didge wrote:Well Ihave no doubt that Putin influenced the Presidential election, but what Putin did not bargain for is the fact that trump is unhinged and that he cannot control him.

His original plan was ingenious...get Trump elected, then have him lift the sanctions. Russia controls Europe’s oil. But he didn't bargain with full knowledge of American Constitutional nuances...and Trump, the pitiful brainless wonder, couldn't fill him in.

His original plan was ingenious...get Trump elected, then have him lift the sanctions.  But he didn't bargain with full knowledge of American Constitutional nuances...and Trump, the pitiful brainless wonder, couldn't fill him in.

But now Putin is the puppeteer of a huge stage, and all is going quite well...perhaps, even better.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:Well Ihave no doubt that Putin influenced the Presidential election, but what Putin did not bargain for is the fact that trump is unhinged and that he cannot control him.

To the contrary, Putin is controlling Trump brilliantly.  Putin's only problem is that he doesn't understand some of the ideological meanings of America, but that's another story.

His original plan was ingenious...get Trump elected, then have him lift the sanctions.  But he didn't bargain with full knowledge of American Constitutional nuances...and Trump, the pitiful brainless wonder, couldn't fill him in.

But now Putin is the puppeteer of a huge stage, and all is going quite well...perhaps, even better.

So how did Putin control Trump, when he retaliated in Syria, after Putin warned there would be consequences, if they did?

Nothing happened.

Hence Putin knows, he has unleashed someone he cannot control.

That is the reality here

Didge wrote:So how did Putin control Trump, when he retaliated in Syria, after Putin warned there would be consequences, if they did?

Nothing happened.

The retaliations were nominal...mere shows. All were staged targets, with no real damage. One was a cornfield next to an airstrip, the other was a few empty buildings. Hell, Trump even gave a few days of public warning of their coming. Events were happening so fast that the world forgot about those.

Trump is generally controlled by Putin because Trump does not know how to think big. Trump is a real estate salesman. Power is bigger than real estate.

Russians used the "dangle" concept on him...this is a well-known tactic of offering something that the mark covets, then hooking either with the bait, or if that is not available, using side Kompromat (perhaps a golden shower?) to trap him.

Despite his golden trappings, Trump is a small thinker (known in America as a 'chump'). Real power and standing is geopolitical power, not real estate in downtown cities of the world. Trump neither thinks in those terms, nor does he understand the might of them. Trump thinks in shekles, and the man who only thinks in shekles does not have the might to posess shekles.

Trump is a tool, soon to be cast aside for better tools. Trump, due to his limited curiosity, is a minor capo, who is superseded by a superior capo, and all bow to the capo de capo. It's how organized crime has always worked. The KGB turned into the Russian Mafia, which is now metastasizing into a Universal Mafia.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:So how did Putin control Trump, when he retaliated in Syria, after Putin warned there would be consequences, if they did?

Nothing happened.

The retaliations were nominal...mere shows.  All were staged targets, with no real damage.  One was a cornfield next to an airstrip, the other was a few empty buildings.  Hell, Trump even gave a few days of public warning of their coming.  Events were happening so fast that the world forgot about those.

Oh its was staged now, the response also by the UK and France then?

This is why you lose all credability when you just make stuff up

They targeted chemical weapons facilities and did so at night, knowing they would be empty of people. Not that they targeted a few empty buildings. As they were chemical facilities and weapons storages. For goodness sake. Hence the view to say the UK, is on this, after its at odds with Russia, after the assassination attempt. Shows you are talking nonsense

So lets see what they did target then shall we?

http://www.newsweek.com/us-uk-and-french-military-strikes-syria-what-we-know-886150


Hence your post was not even worth responding to in full

Hence you blatantly miss the point that Russia stated it would retaliate and attack warships that fired such weapons, This is even proven by how a British sub, was being chased down by Russian ships, but you want to invent things to fit your warped view point here. Which as seen, does not fit reality to the actual attacks

http://uk.businessinsider.com/uk-submarine-russia-tracked-before-syria-strikes-2018-4?r=US&IR=T

Trump called Putin's bluff here and Putin stood down.

Didge wrote:They targeted chemical weapons facilities and did so at night, knowing they would be empty of people. Not that they targeted a few empty buildings. As they were chemical facilities and weapons storages. For goodness sake. Hence the view to say the UK, is on this, after its at odds with Russia, after the assassination attempt. Shows you are talking nonsense.

Bullshit.  You believe Trump...the tool of the tool. They were phony, pre-arranged side-shows, as your own Newsweek clip shows. Everyone playing a part.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:They targeted chemical weapons facilities and did so at night, knowing they would be empty of people. Not that they targeted a few empty buildings. As they were chemical facilities and weapons storages. For goodness sake. Hence the view to say the UK, is on this, after its at odds with Russia, after the assassination attempt. Shows you are talking nonsense.

Bullshit.  You believe Trump...the tool of the tool.

Wrong, I believe the UK, France and US intelligence services on this issue.

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Bullshit.  You believe Trump...the tool of the tool.

Wrong, I believe the UK, France and US intelligence services on this issue.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but the US intelligence services were tight-lipped, as you would expect given the situation.  They merely said there were some buildings toppled, which were once used to house chemical weapons.

They weren't even sure if it was sarin or chlorine.  Trump gave 'em days advance notice to clear things and people out.  They were empty shells...all fake.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:


Wrong, I believe the UK, France and US intelligence services on this issue.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but the US intelligence services were tight-lipped, as you would expect given the situation.  They merely said there were some buildings toppled, which were once used to house chemical weapons.

They weren't even sure if it was sarin or chlorine.  Trump gave 'em days advance notice to clear things and people out.  They were empty shells...all fake.

That is the point you miss and the elephant in the room with your answer

You are blatnatly ignoring the British and French response to this and how again Putin, certainly made threats to retaliate and stood down on this. Either his defense system is flawed, or he backed down on his threats

Syria war: OPCW says chlorine used in February attack

The global chemical weapons watchdog has said chlorine is likely to have been used in an attack on a rebel-held town in northern Syria in February.

The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) found chlorine had been "released from cylinders by mechanical impact" in Saraqeb.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-44139331

So more than anything your claim Quill is what is baseless and why the joint attack by the US, France and Uk was needed

It has thus destroyed key and significant amounts of chemical facilities, which no side in Syria can then use

Didge wrote:You are blatnatly ignoring the British and French response to this and how again Putin, certainly made threats to retaliate and stood down on this. Either his defense system is flawed, or he backed down on his threats

It's fake news, didge. Trump told me so.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:You are blatnatly ignoring the British and French response to this and how again Putin, certainly made threats to retaliate and stood down on this. Either his defense system is flawed, or he backed down on his threats

It's fake news, didge.  Trump told me so.

Oh so you are now buddies with Trump, being as you claim to converse with him now..


Ooooooooooooookay then

The fact of the matter is this. Evidence proves that Assad has been using chemical weapons.

The evidence has been found that Chlorine was used in Duma

The US, French and British were thus right to take out facilities, which then denies any side in Syria then using such weapons.

You want to continue to bury your head in the sand, be my guest.

Not to put too fine a point on the matter, but...

Yahoo News wrote:Trump cancels summit, citing 'open hostility' by North Korea
Associated Press • May 24, 2018

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Failing Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon canceled the planned June 12 summit with North Korea's Kim Jong Un Thursday, citing the "tremendous anger and open hostility" in a recent statement from the North.

...I told yew sew.

Haha...all kidding aside, this is the Trump Deep State spinning it's bullshit

"I will succeed where no one else can..."

"Opps...well, it's all their fault!"

This is your hot, hot negotiator. What did I tell you? His sole tactic is to walk away! Where are the other parts of negotiation? Where's the inducement? Where's the urgency? Where's the offer/counteroffer? There was never any negotiation...just a common, everyday walk-away. We can all do that.

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

It's fake news, didge.  Trump told me so.

Oh so you are now buddies with Trump, being as you claim to converse with him now..


Ooooooooooooookay then

The fact of the matter is this. Evidence proves that Assad has been using chemical weapons.

The evidence has been found that Chlorine was used in Duma

The US, French and British were thus right to take out facilities, which then denies any side in Syria then using such weapons.

You want to continue to bury your head in the sand, be my guest.

Unfortunately, you are talking out yer ass...shouting with the wind, as they say.     "The US, French and British..." did not take out anything but empty buildings.  It was all staged right before your silly eyes.

Had there been any chemicals inside those buildings, there would have been chemical deaths to the civilian population.  What happened?  Where are the dead and burned children?  Why is everyone so calm and nonchalant?  Use your brain, FGS.

It was all a pre-arranged show by the Trump deep state.  The British and French went along with it because the US pays for the whole NATO operation.

Brit: “Hey mate, they want us to blow up just bludy shit, empty buildings…”
Frog: “Zey pay for eet.  Jus due zee job and fookuff.”
US Sergeant:  “Here’s some paper towels.”

It’s the ultimate fake news…and you’re actually eating it up.

Now get back on topic, you silly bimbo...this is about the North Korea fiasco.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:

Oh so you are now buddies with Trump, being as you claim to converse with him now..


Ooooooooooooookay then

The fact of the matter is this. Evidence proves that Assad has been using chemical weapons.

The evidence has been found that Chlorine was used in Duma

The US, French and British were thus right to take out facilities, which then denies any side in Syria then using such weapons.

You want to continue to bury your head in the sand, be my guest.

Unfortunately, you are talking out yer ass...shouting with the wind, as they say.     "The US, French and British..." did not take out anything but empty buildings.  It was all staged right before your silly eyes.

Had there been any chemicals inside those buildings, there would have been chemical deaths to the civilian population.  What happened?  Where are the dead and burned children?  Why is everyone so calm and nonchalant?  Use your brain, FGS.  

It was all a pre-arranged show by the Trump deep state.  The British and French went along with it because the US pays for the whole NATO operation.

Brit: “Hey mate, they want us to blow up just bludy shit, empty buildings…”
Frog: “Zey pay for eet.  Jus due zee job and fookuff.”
US Sergeant:  “Here’s some paper towels.”

It’s the ultimate fake news…and you’re actually eating it up.

Now get back on topic, you silly bimbo...this is about the North Korea fiasco.

So now Quill explains why he knows next to nothing about chemical weapons and now claims many civillians would die based on such an attack?

Really?

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a19804988/how-to-destroy-syrias-chemical-weapons/

This is why again nobody can take you seriously on anything as you continue to spout utter gibberish, not backed up science or reality

So the only thing fake is your ability to debate

Its up to you if you want to remain anti-western and jump in the pockets of Assad and Iran. That is your outlook not mine, but one that is not supported by the majority of Americans

Let me know when you want to actually debate some facts, and not your hysteria parnoia

Thanks

Didge wrote:So now Quill explains why he knows next to nothing about chemical weapons and now claims many civillians would die based on such an attack?

Really?

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a19804988/how-to-destroy-syrias-chemical-weapons/

Entertaining article, but all theoretical.  Clearly, it states the problem plain enough:

Popular Mechanics wrote:Once the [bomber] learns of a possible location, using traditional bombs and missiles would only make problems worse. Due to the very nature of chemical weapons, an explosive attack would spread lethal agents over a wide area, meaning more civilian casualties.

But it doesn’t tell us what actually happened.  Your article describes three alternative ways of minimizing the damage from chemical weapons in the abstract.  But describing abstractions is a long way from eliminating and nullifying the actual chemicals.

The article ends with the following passage:

Popular Mechanics wrote:Even these agent defeat weapons are not a silver bullet for destroying chemical weapons. In fact, it may take many strikes to get the job done. But if they can help prevent the deaths of more innocent civilians, it’s an option worth taking seriously.

As I said, unproven and highly theoretical.  The article doesn't say anything about using chemical-defeat weapons in this instance.

What was used in this instance is the time trusted method of bait and switch.  One, publicly give advanced warning to the enemy.  Two, enemy uses the time to remove the chemicals.  Three, bomb the empty buildings.

Now I don't need an abstract, theoretical magazine article, about theoretical weapons still on the drawing board, to tell me what happened.  It happened before our very eyes.  You just choose to believe what was said, rather than what you saw.

That's how fake news works.  Remember what presidential chippy Kellyanne Conway said: 'we've got alternative facts'.