This Tory is putting bill to make patients pay for NHS treatment before parliament today

Rightwinger Chris Chope has put forward legislation that would undermine the principle of an NHS free at the point of use.

The Tory MP for Christchurch has tabled a private member’s bill set to be the third to be debated today calling for “co-payment” for NHS treatment.

His National Health Service (Co-Funding and Co-Payment) Bill (HC Bill 37) is unlikely to be passed without his Government’s support, but it opens up for debate extending charges from prescriptions, dentistry and opticians to GP visits and even hospital procedures.

It is the second reading of Sir Christopher Chope’s bill to amend the 2006 Health Service Bill.

Last summer Chris Chope was accused of “abusing the system” by sleeping in Westminster for three nights with fellow Tory MP Peter Bone to put in 73 private member’s bills between the pair of them.

Many fellow MPs were outraged as this was seen as an attempt to block other MPs proposing legislation on Fridays which are reserved for individual MPs to bring legislation to the commons.

Labour’s Paul Flynn, who has been attempting to have his own bill to legalise the medicinal use of cannabis debated properly for years, despite attempts to talk it out of time on Fridays, accused Chris Chope and Peter Bone of “abusing the system by putting down 70 bills where there are only a certain number of slots.” The Labour MP for Newport in Wales said: “It’s destructive. It’s not helping the Commons to do its job. I think it’s made them the least popular of all MPs.”

Chris Chope has little respect for other MPs’ private members bills, waffling on with other notoriously filibustering Conservative MPs to make sure they run out of time for a vote. The incredibly irritating practice has often been criticised as being undemocratic.

In 2015 for instance, Chope helped fellow Tories Philip Davies and Davide Nuttall, who between the three of them chatted for two hours and 53 minutes to derail Labour MP Julie Cooper’s perfectly sensible private member’s bill to give carers free hospital parking.

The much respected health select committee found that the Tory reorganizing of the NHS as a marketplace cost the NHS 14% of all its budget. And with private firms encouraged to cherry pick £billions in contracts for the more lucrative functions of the NHS, today’s vote will be seen as another attempt by rightwingers in the Conservative party to undermine the NHS.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/politics/this-tory-is-putting-bill-to-make-patients-pay-for-nhs-treatment-before-parliament-today/11/05/


I just hope somebody gets hold of this bastard and locks him in the loo for the day. How dare he! What with that and Jeremy Hunt walking out of the HOC as soon as a question was put to him about the rise in deaths in care of children with disabilities brought boos from even his side of the House.

NHS care from the cradle to the grave seems to be something of a myth.

When people really need it they are denied it.
How come elderly have to pay for their care?
My MIL is in her 104th year, blind, deaf, cant walk, now suffering from dementia. She has to pay for care.
Had she owned her own house it would have long been sold off to pay for care home fees.

She is not yet considered disabled enough to qualify for NHS full time care.
Its sad that when people near the end of their lives state funded care stops.

Somebody should shoot that scumbag "silver spooner", and put him out of Britain's collective misery...

The worst kind of scumbag poloticians are those useless wastrel "born to rule" mongrels who have never had to work for anything in their spoilt and carefree lives, always having their trust funds and family companies to fall back on..

Well said Wolfie, have a greeny.

It's ok for the rich to say this, we on the other hand we're not so lucky!

There's nothing "right wing" about such a proposal. As usual, the people who pay tax and NI would have to pay to see a GP, and those who never pay a penny into the system would get everything free.

Exactly Fen, so bloody unfair .

How many other nations have adopted the NHS?

Zero

As is not financially workable, when a nation grows to a point of no  return, where then the cost is enormous. It will just continue to be a massive drain in money not spent as it should be to help all people. Its why other nations like Canada have far better systems and why we should adopt such a system.

The NHS  has worked well for 70 years, it would be a disaster if it was abolished.

Too much red tape, too many people taking advantage of it, and too little money being ploughed into it, or used unwisely, are the reasons it's struggling so much imo.

Syl wrote:The NHS  has worked well for 70 years, it would be a disaster if it was abolished.

Too much red tape, too many people taking advantage of it, and too little money being ploughed into it, or used unwisely, are the reasons it's struggling so much imo.

Rubbish on every level, its not worked well for 70 years

Its time we scrapped such an economic disaster and put in place a system that works far better 

Didge wrote:
How many other nations have adopted the NHS?

Zero

As is not financially workable, when a nation grows to a point of no  return, where then the cost is enormous. It will just continue to be a massive drain in money not spent as it should be to help all people. Its why other nations like Canada have far better systems and why we should adopt such a system.

Here's an interesting report from last year, to back Didgeri's views...

http://www.businessinsider.com/healthiest-countries-in-the-world-2017-1?r=UK&IR=T&IR=T/#2-singapore-another-small-city-state-to-make-the-top-of-the-prosperity-indexs-health-sub-index-singapores-56-million-citizens-have-an-average-life-expectancy-of-831-years-old-15

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Didge wrote:
How many other nations have adopted the NHS?

Zero

As is not financially workable, when a nation grows to a point of no  return, where then the cost is enormous. It will just continue to be a massive drain in money not spent as it should be to help all people. Its why other nations like Canada have far better systems and why we should adopt such a system.

Here's an interesting report from last year, to back Didgeri's views...

http://www.businessinsider.com/healthiest-countries-in-the-world-2017-1?r=UK&IR=T&IR=T/#2-singapore-another-small-city-state-to-make-the-top-of-the-prosperity-indexs-health-sub-index-singapores-56-million-citizens-have-an-average-life-expectancy-of-831-years-old-15

+1

Sadly mate, many people have been brought up on a diet of bullshit around the NHS and why your country has a far greater and better health service. Is because people fail to even look at other better health systems. The NHS is getting worse daily, because it cannot cope and its only going to get worse, staying with such a flawed system. There is no doubt the concept of the NHS is wonderful, but as seen the Uk lags behind many other nations in health care.

To claim it would be a disaster, as Sly did, only goes to show the ignorance of some people on this. They have been, as i say brought up and fed on a diet of bullshit. The NHS is not the envy of the world, its a walking disaster and I think that sadly, its going to take people dying in large numbers, for people to finally grasp this.

IT'S not even like Britain has to go half way round the world to look for improvements and comparisons, either...

Holland and France are right next door..

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

IT'S not even like Britain has to go half way round the world to look for improvements and comparisons, either...

Holland and France are right next door..

And yet sadly, its our stubborness, that stops us from looking to others, to better our own systems mate

I mean look at crime, as the Dutch are closing prisons?

It shows they understand what really causes crime is relative poverty and have been able to reduce crime

Its why they have a much better minimum wage and benefits system and still people in this country, cannot grasp that.

Have a good day mate

So Didge. What is your cure for the NHS ills?

Angry Andy wrote:So Didge. What is your cure for the NHS ills?

To scrap it and adopt a much better system. For example like Switzerland, Australia, France, Germany etc

You mean privatization.
And fuck those who cannot afford it.

Angry Andy wrote:You mean privatization.
And fuck those who cannot afford it.

Cathy Newman alert

Again this is a prime example of someone so stupid, he cannot even understand how and why the countries I mentioned have better health services than the Uk.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Didge wrote:
How many other nations have adopted the NHS?

Zero

As is not financially workable, when a nation grows to a point of no  return, where then the cost is enormous. It will just continue to be a massive drain in money not spent as it should be to help all people. Its why other nations like Canada have far better systems and why we should adopt such a system.

Here's an interesting report from last year, to back Didgeri's views...

http://www.businessinsider.com/healthiest-countries-in-the-world-2017-1?r=UK&IR=T&IR=T/#2-singapore-another-small-city-state-to-make-the-top-of-the-prosperity-indexs-health-sub-index-singapores-56-million-citizens-have-an-average-life-expectancy-of-831-years-old-15

I suggest Dummy Andy, you read the link

Angry Andy wrote:So Didge. What is your cure for the NHS ills?

I'd like to know that too. So far, Didge hasn't said anything specific about how to change the system.

I'm not sure what's wrong with the system anyway. I can see a doctor when I need to, and I can get an appointment for blood tests when I need one. The hospital does often change appointment days, but that's not such a big problem as I only go once a year.

Is the problem that people go to the GP for silly reasons, or they use A&E when they could wait and see their GP? Perhaps the problem is that too many houses are being built in areas with no corresponding NHS services.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Angry Andy wrote:So Didge. What is your cure for the NHS ills?

I'd like to know that too. So far, Didge hasn't said anything specific about how to change the system.

Let me dumb this down for you

We scrap  the present system and adopt a much better system.
You want to me to say how long it would take to adopt a new system.
No doubt around 5 years

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I'd like to know that too. So far, Didge hasn't said anything specific about how to change the system.

Let me dumb this down for you

We scrap  the present system and adopt a much better system.
You want to me to say how long it would take to adopt a new system.
No doubt around 5 years

What is this "better" system then? Try to be more specific, otherwise I might think you're being dumb and that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Let me dumb this down for you

We scrap  the present system and adopt a much better system.
You want to me to say how long it would take to adopt a new system.
No doubt around 5 years

What is this "better" system then? Try to be more specific, otherwise I might think you're being dumb and that you have no idea what you're talking about.

I suggest you read back and see the link that wolf posted and the video I posted

Try to stop being a complete fuckwit all your life

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

What is this "better" system then? Try to be more specific, otherwise I might think you're being dumb and that you have no idea what you're talking about.

I suggest you read back and see the link that wolf posted and the video I posted

Try to stop being a complete fuckwit all your life

The link wolfboy posted doesn't say anything about what a better system would consist of.

If you can't answer the question, don't worry about it. You can't help being an idiot.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


I suggest you read back and see the link that wolf posted and the video I posted

Try to stop being a complete fuckwit all your life

The link wolfboy posted doesn't say anything about what a better system would consist of.

If you can't answer the question, don't worry about it. You can't help being an idiot.

Then I suggest you watch the video first, before asking me such dumb questions

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

The link wolfboy posted doesn't say anything about what a better system would consist of.

If you can't answer the question, don't worry about it. You can't help being an idiot.

Then I suggest you watch the video first, before asking me such dumb questions

Summarise the video - you watched it after all. Well I assume you did - you probably didn't, you just plucked it off the internet.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Then I suggest you watch the video first, before asking me such dumb questions

Summarise the video - you watched it after all. Well I assume you did - you probably didn't, you just plucked it off the internet.

Get stuffed

If you are too lazy to watch, then that is your problem and a sure way to end this conversation

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Summarise the video - you watched it after all. Well I assume you did - you probably didn't, you just plucked it off the internet.

Get stuffed

If you are too lazy to watch, then that is your problem and a sure way to end this conversation

If you're too lazy or stupid to explain your own claim that the system can be improved, you shouldn't have claimed that. Honestly, you're so useless.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Get stuffed

If you are too lazy to watch, then that is your problem and a sure way to end this conversation

If you're too lazy or stupid to explain your own claim that the system can be improved, you shouldn't have claimed that. Honestly, you're so useless.

Yet more shit stirring

Angry Andy wrote:You mean privatization.
And fuck those who cannot afford it.

Possibly. However, if they reduced NI payments, that might help. NI is only another tax really, other than needing 35 years qualifying years to get the state pension.

So Didge. What is Your cure for the NHS ills?

Not someone else's.

Angry Andy wrote:So Didge. What is Your cure for the NHS ills?

Not someone else's.

Should I use my invisability skills to tackle crime or hide away from the world?

For fuck sake

How many times do I have to say it?

We need to adopt a system that actually works and is finnanically viable. Like for example tyhe System in Australia

Throwing money continually at the same problem, is not going to resolve that probem, but as seen, it will continually get worse.

Now you want to know how that could be done. It would take a phase period over a number of years to impliment.

How about scrapping this thing about those over 60 getting free prescriptions? I can get free ones in a few years but I'll still be working so I can afford to pay.

Angry Andy wrote:So Didge. What is Your cure for the NHS ills?

Not someone else's.

Good question, but he won't answer it properly.

Raggamuffin wrote:How about scrapping this thing about those over 60 getting free prescriptions? I can get free ones in a few years but I'll still be working so I can afford to pay.

So how will those pay who are not working and on state pensions?

You do realise that people when much older, are alongside children, much more vunerable to illness?

That means you would be placing a greater finnancial burden on the elderly, being as they will have a greater need of medication, more than many other people as a group.

Now, if you mean those still working, then how would you differentiate from the pensioners who do work and those who do not?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:How about scrapping this thing about those over 60 getting free prescriptions? I can get free ones in a few years but I'll still be working so I can afford to pay.

So how will those pay who are not working and on state pensions?

You do realise that people when much older, are alongside children, much more vunerable to illness?

That means you would be placing a greater finnancial burden on the elderly, being as they will have a greater need of medication, more than many other people as a group.

Now, if you mean those still working, then how would you differentiate from the pensioners who do work and those who do not?

Most won't be on a state pension at 60 these days - you have to wait longer that that. I can't get my state pension until I'm 66.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


So how will those pay who are not working and on state pensions?

You do realise that people when much older, are alongside children, much more vunerable to illness?

That means you would be placing a greater finnancial burden on the elderly, being as they will have a greater need of medication, more than many other people as a group.

Now, if you mean those still working, then how would you differentiate from the pensioners who do work and those who do not?

Most won't be on a state pension at 60 these days - you have to wait longer that that. I can't get my state pension until I'm 66.

Completely avoided the point

Try again

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Most won't be on a state pension at 60 these days - you have to wait longer that that. I can't get my state pension until I'm 66.

Completely avoided the point

Try again

Eh? I said scrap free prescriptions for those over 60, not scrap it for those who are on a state pension. Pay attention. You can stop being so rude too. Try debating properly instead of trolling the forum and abusing everyone.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Completely avoided the point

Try again

Eh? I said scrap free prescriptions for those over 60, not scrap it for those who are on a state pension. Pay attention. You can stop being so rude too. Try debating properly instead of trolling the forum and abusing everyone.

Shit stirring alert

So again

Now, if you mean those still working, then how would you differentiate from the pensioners who do work and those who do not?

You can get a prepayment certificate which covers all prescriptions, so you're basically only paying for about one a month. Those who need to take several prescriptions can get one.

https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/help-nhs-prescription-costs/prescription-prepayment-certificates

Raggamuffin wrote:You can get a prepayment certificate which covers all prescriptions, so you're basically only paying for about one a month. Those who need to take several prescriptions can get one.

https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/help-nhs-prescription-costs/prescription-prepayment-certificates

How do people on state pensions afford even that?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Eh? I said scrap free prescriptions for those over 60, not scrap it for those who are on a state pension. Pay attention. You can stop being so rude too. Try debating properly instead of trolling the forum and abusing everyone.

Shit stirring alert

So again

Now, if you mean those still working, then how would you differentiate from the pensioners who do work and those who do not?

Those who are 60 will not be getting a state pension, so the question is irrelevant. One doesn't become a pensioner the second they turn 60 you know.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:You can get a prepayment certificate which covers all prescriptions, so you're basically only paying for about one a month. Those who need to take several prescriptions can get one.

https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/help-nhs-prescription-costs/prescription-prepayment-certificates

How do people on state pensions afford even that?

They won't be on a state pension at 60. Are you paying attention?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Shit stirring alert

So again

Now, if you mean those still working, then how would you differentiate from the pensioners who do work and those who do not?

Those who are 60 will not be getting a state pension, so the question is irrelevant. One doesn't become a pensioner the second they turn 60 you know.

Avoided the question again

So state what age you think people should be entittled to free prescriptions.

As saying it should be scrapped for over 60's, with nothing else offered by you, would mean it would be scrapped for all pensioners

Surely you can see that?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


How do people on state pensions afford even that?

They won't be on a state pension at 60. Are you paying attention?

But they will be in their late 60's

So you are again avoiding the question

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

They won't be on a state pension at 60. Are you paying attention?

But they will be in their late 60's

So you are again avoiding the question

So make them free for those getting a state pension, not those who are merely 60 and over.

They could also stop dispensing unnecessary drugs like statins and blood pressure-lowering pills unless there's a real need for them.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


But they will be in their late 60's

So you are again avoiding the question

So make them free for those getting a state pension, not those who are merely 60 and over.

They could also stop dispensing unnecessary drugs like statins and blood pressure-lowering pills unless there's a real need for them.

So again

Now, if you mean those still working, then how would you differentiate from the pensioners who do work and those who do not?

Or those on state and private pensions?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

So make them free for those getting a state pension, not those who are merely 60 and over.

They could also stop dispensing unnecessary drugs like statins and blood pressure-lowering pills unless there's a real need for them.

So again

Now, if you mean those still working, then how would you differentiate from the pensioners who do work and those who do not?

Or those on state and private pensions?

If someone is 60 there's no reason why they wouldn't be working. If they're not working and getting various benefits, they wouldn't pay anyway - like younger people on mean-tested benefits don't pay.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


So again

Now, if you mean those still working, then how would you differentiate from the pensioners who do work and those who do not?

Or those on state and private pensions?

If someone is 60 there's no reason why they wouldn't be working. If they're not working and getting various benefits, they wouldn't pay anyway - like younger people on mean-tested benefits don't pay.

Avoided the question again

Interestingly, those on contribution-based benefits do still have to pay prescription charges. Is that because it's assumed they have savings from when they were employed?