Maddog's memes.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

You're not really in a position to be judging folks in terms of being wrong, now are you?

The constitution is a set of laws that restrict the government.  

I'm not really commenting about positions.  I'm commenting about different levels of law.  Your own meme said it.  The Constitution, in addition to providing the internal structure/functions of government, is a host of prohibitions on governments.  "Constitution" means the constitution of the government.

Laws, as promulgated by legislatures, provide the restrictions on private citizens.  These laws dictate that murder, assault, and robbery, etc., are outlawed.  They hold that poisoning rivers and creeks is illegal.  They impose standards for medical personnel.  There are many, many things that laws make illegal, including some forms of discrimination.  The Constitution and general laws should not be confused.

Your whole post was confusing laws with constitutional provisions.  It's kinda embarrassing for you to go on, and I was simply trying to help.  It's possible that in your studies as a bookkeeper, subtleties such as high school civics might have escaped you.

I have zero need for help from you. Maybe some of your neighbors would like you to visit with them and spew your nonsense?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I'm not really commenting about positions.  I'm commenting about different levels of law.  Your own meme said it.  The Constitution, in addition to providing the internal structure/functions of government, is a host of prohibitions on governments.  "Constitution" means the constitution of the government.

Laws, as promulgated by legislatures, provide the restrictions on private citizens.  These laws dictate that murder, assault, and robbery, etc., are outlawed.  They hold that poisoning rivers and creeks is illegal.  They impose standards for medical personnel.  There are many, many things that laws make illegal, including some forms of discrimination.  The Constitution and general laws should not be confused.

Your whole post was confusing laws with constitutional provisions.  It's kinda embarrassing for you to go on, and I was simply trying to help.  It's possible that in your studies as a bookkeeper, subtleties such as high school civics might have escaped you.

I have zero need for help from you.  Maybe some of your neighbors would like you to visit with them and spew your nonsense?  

Awww...you're upset. Oh well, learning can be painful. You'll survive.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

I have zero need for help from you.  Maybe some of your neighbors would like you to visit with them and spew your nonsense?  

Awww...you're upset.  Oh well, learning can be painful.  You'll survive.

Hardly upset, but I applaud the brevity of your post.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Awww...you're upset.  Oh well, learning can be painful.  You'll survive.

Hardly upset, but I applaud the brevity of your post.  

Thx. Your sputters and stammers don't require much of a retort.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Hardly upset, but I applaud the brevity of your post.  

Thx.  Your sputters and stammers don't require much of a retort.  

Your past posts prove that's a lie.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Thx.  Your sputters and stammers don't require much of a retort.  

Your past posts prove that's a lie.  

Which of your arguments are you talking about?  Are you talking about your posts where you tried to convince us that if it doesn't fit on an accountant's balance sheet, it doesn't exist?  Or are you talking about your posts about libertarians being cute little lap dogs.  

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Your past posts prove that's a lie.  

Which of your arguments are you talking about?  Are you talking about your posts where you tried to convince us that if it doesn't fit on an accountant's balance sheet, it doesn't exist?  Or are you talking about your posts about libertarians being cute little lap dogs.  

Why did you say goodwill is not a number on a balance sheet, when it clearly is?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Which of your arguments are you talking about?  Are you talking about your posts where you tried to convince us that if it doesn't fit on an accountant's balance sheet, it doesn't exist?  Or are you talking about your posts about libertarians being cute little lap dogs.  

Why did you say goodwill is not a number on a balance sheet, when it clearly is?

Why to you persist with vacuous points, when you clearly missed the mark altogether. There is no balance sheet for the creative process.

Red, give it up. You're showing yourself to be more concerned about pettiness and ad hominem argument, than discussion. Concentrate on making valid points. They can be extreme if you wish, just make a path that people can follow. Look for answers, not for personal antagonism.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Why did you say goodwill is not a number on a balance sheet, when it clearly is?

Why to you persist with vacuous points, when you clearly missed the mark altogether.  There is no balance sheet for the creative process.

Red, give it up.  You're showing yourself to be more concerned about pettiness and ad hominem argument, than discussion.  Concentrate on making valid points.  They can be extreme if you wish, just make a path that people can follow.  Look for answers, not for personal antagonism.

Why did you say goodwill is not a number on a balance sheet, when it clearly is?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Why to you persist with vacuous points, when you clearly missed the mark altogether.  There is no balance sheet for the creative process.

Red, give it up.  You're showing yourself to be more concerned about pettiness and ad hominem argument, than discussion.  Concentrate on making valid points.  They can be extreme if you wish, just make a path that people can follow.  Look for answers, not for personal antagonism.

Why did you say goodwill is not a number on a balance sheet, when it clearly is?

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:



Why did you say goodwill is not a number on a balance sheet, when it clearly is?

That's better.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

That's better.

hahahahahaha

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Why did you say goodwill is not a number on a balance sheet, when it clearly is?

Why to you persist with vacuous points, when you clearly missed the mark altogether.  There is no balance sheet for the creative process.

Red, give it up.  You're showing yourself to be more concerned about pettiness and ad hominem argument, than discussion.  Concentrate on making valid points.  They can be extreme if you wish, just make a path that people can follow.  Look for answers, not for personal antagonism.

Why did you say goodwill is not a number on a balance sheet, when it clearly is?

But should it be on the balance sheet?
No, Obviously not, but it is part of the Charlatan Accounts bag of tricks to defraud the economy.

Why did we have the GFC?
because the way the books are currently cooked by the finance sector is NOT based in reality and is institutionalised methodical deceit.

Goodwill is one of the BEST examples of the deceitful accounting methods used.

the problem goes back to the fraudulent Evaluations of value used by the finance sector. Just because you can find someone dumb enough to pay for something with no value, doesn't mean that thing now actually has value. Goodwill is a great example because You can pay millions for goodwill but even a day after you buy it you cant sell it, the first day you try and trade with it the value of the good will you bought is zero again, because it doesn't matter if the customers liked the old owner, that doesn't actually transfer to the new owner for more than a couple of transactions.
yet the Liars and frauds of the Financial sector put it in their books and trade it amongst themselves and pretend they have created value which they use to borrow actual value against, the whole charade lasts until they have to trade that make believe value they made outside the finical sector because it is Fake, it doesn't exist and they are inevitably found lacking the value they claimed to hold... thus a GFC is born again

veya_victaous wrote:

Maddog wrote:



Why did you say goodwill is not a number on a balance sheet, when it clearly is?

But should it be on the balance sheet?
No, Obviously not, but it is part of the Charlatan Accounts bag of tricks to defraud the economy.

Why did we have the GFC?
because the way the books are currently cooked by the finance sector is NOT based in reality and is institutionalised methodical deceit.

Goodwill is one of the BEST examples of the deceitful accounting methods used.

the problem goes back to the fraudulent Evaluations of value used by the finance sector. Just because you can find someone dumb enough to pay for something with no value, doesn't mean that thing now actually has value. Goodwill is a great example because You can pay millions for goodwill but even a day after you buy it you cant sell it, the first day you try and trade with it the value of the good will you bought is zero again, because it doesn't matter if the customers liked the old owner, that doesn't actually transfer to the new owner for more than a couple of transactions.
yet the Liars and frauds of the Financial sector put it in their books and trade it amongst themselves and pretend they have created value which they use to borrow actual value against, the whole charade lasts until they have to trade that make believe value they made outside the finical sector because it is Fake, it doesn't exist and they are inevitably found lacking the value they claimed to hold... thus a GFC is born again

Goodwill has value. You and someone who values businesses may disagree on that value, but value is there nonetheless. You can see it when a business sells.

Just because people have lied about how much value was there, doesn't mean there was no value there.

A lot of the estimates are based on revenue streams. Much like I do when I value income producing property. A proven track record of certain rental amounts can get you dialed in pretty well.

Maddog wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Maddog wrote:



Why did you say goodwill is not a number on a balance sheet, when it clearly is?

But should it be on the balance sheet?
No, Obviously not, but it is part of the Charlatan Accounts bag of tricks to defraud the economy.

Why did we have the GFC?
because the way the books are currently cooked by the finance sector is NOT based in reality and is institutionalised methodical deceit.

Goodwill is one of the BEST examples of the deceitful accounting methods used.

the problem goes back to the fraudulent Evaluations of value used by the finance sector. Just because you can find someone dumb enough to pay for something with no value, doesn't mean that thing now actually has value. Goodwill is a great example because You can pay millions for goodwill but even a day after you buy it you cant sell it, the first day you try and trade with it the value of the good will you bought is zero again, because it doesn't matter if the customers liked the old owner, that doesn't actually transfer to the new owner for more than a couple of transactions.
yet the Liars and frauds of the Financial sector put it in their books and trade it amongst themselves and pretend they have created value which they use to borrow actual value against, the whole charade lasts until they have to trade that make believe value they made outside the finical sector because it is Fake, it doesn't exist and they are inevitably found lacking the value they claimed to hold... thus a GFC is born again

Goodwill has value.  You and someone who values businesses may disagree on that value, but value is there nonetheless.  You can see it when a business sells.  

Just because people have lied about how much value was there, doesn't mean there was no value there.  

A lot of the estimates are based on revenue streams.  Much like I do when I value income producing property.  A proven track record of certain rental amounts can get you dialed in pretty well.  

Great, now do me a balance sheet for love, I'd really like to know how valuable that is and if I can earn money off of it or just disregard it because it discourages profitability.

Maddog wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Maddog wrote:



Why did you say goodwill is not a number on a balance sheet, when it clearly is?

But should it be on the balance sheet?
No, Obviously not, but it is part of the Charlatan Accounts bag of tricks to defraud the economy.

Why did we have the GFC?
because the way the books are currently cooked by the finance sector is NOT based in reality and is institutionalised methodical deceit.

Goodwill is one of the BEST examples of the deceitful accounting methods used.

the problem goes back to the fraudulent Evaluations of value used by the finance sector. Just because you can find someone dumb enough to pay for something with no value, doesn't mean that thing now actually has value. Goodwill is a great example because You can pay millions for goodwill but even a day after you buy it you cant sell it, the first day you try and trade with it the value of the good will you bought is zero again, because it doesn't matter if the customers liked the old owner, that doesn't actually transfer to the new owner for more than a couple of transactions.
yet the Liars and frauds of the Financial sector put it in their books and trade it amongst themselves and pretend they have created value which they use to borrow actual value against, the whole charade lasts until they have to trade that make believe value they made outside the finical sector because it is Fake, it doesn't exist and they are inevitably found lacking the value they claimed to hold... thus a GFC is born again

Goodwill has value.  You and someone who values businesses may disagree on that value, but value is there nonetheless.  You can see it when a business sells.  

Just because people have lied about how much value was there, doesn't mean there was no value there.  

A lot of the estimates are based on revenue streams.  Much like I do when I value income producing property.  A proven track record of certain rental amounts can get you dialed in pretty well.  

But the goodwill had NO real world value at all.
I KNOW charlatan accountants will Bullshit and say it has value JUST because some idiot will pay for it.
But someone paying for it and Value ARE NOT THE SAME, the lie perpetuated by the Financial sector is what causes Economic Bubbles and caused the GFC.

time for an Economic Revolution where the Old lies around 'value' and subsequently the 'fallacy of the fallacy' are put to bed as the deceptions that they are.

veya_victaous wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Goodwill has value.  You and someone who values businesses may disagree on that value, but value is there nonetheless.  You can see it when a business sells.  

Just because people have lied about how much value was there, doesn't mean there was no value there.  

A lot of the estimates are based on revenue streams.  Much like I do when I value income producing property.  A proven track record of certain rental amounts can get you dialed in pretty well.  

But the goodwill had NO real world value at all.
I KNOW charlatan accountants will Bullshit and say it has value JUST because some idiot will pay for it.
But someone paying for it and Value ARE NOT THE SAME, the lie perpetuated by the Financial sector is what causes Economic Bubbles and caused the GFC.

time for an Economic Revolution where the Old lies around 'value' and subsequently the 'fallacy of the fallacy' are put to bed as the deceptions that they are.

If you start a restaurant with 200k and sell it for 400k because you have built such a popular place, it's value is 400k. 200 of that is goodwill. Now the buyer could have started his own restaurant for 200k, but decided it was a better value to pay twice as much for yours. That's where goodwill comes into play. A business is more than the value of its property, plant and equipment.

Maddog wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

But the goodwill had NO real world value at all.
I KNOW charlatan accountants will Bullshit and say it has value JUST because some idiot will pay for it.
But someone paying for it and Value ARE NOT THE SAME, the lie perpetuated by the Financial sector is what causes Economic Bubbles and caused the GFC.

time for an Economic Revolution where the Old lies around 'value' and subsequently the 'fallacy of the fallacy' are put to bed as the deceptions that they are.

If you start a restaurant with 200k and sell it for 400k because you have built such a popular place, it's value is 400k.  200 of that is goodwill.  Now the buyer could have started his own restaurant for 200k, but decided it was a better value to pay twice as much for yours. That's where goodwill comes into play. A business is more than the value of its property, plant and equipment.  

Bullshit. The restaurant is selling a menu and service...food and delivery. That's the 'stuff' of the restaurant.

Goodwill is bullshite that an owner uses to pump up the price.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

If you start a restaurant with 200k and sell it for 400k because you have built such a popular place, it's value is 400k.  200 of that is goodwill.  Now the buyer could have started his own restaurant for 200k, but decided it was a better value to pay twice as much for yours. That's where goodwill comes into play. A business is more than the value of its property, plant and equipment.  

Bullshit.  The restaurant is selling a menu and service...food and delivery.  That's the 'stuff' of the restaurant.

Goodwill is bullshite that an owner uses to pump up the price.

Why do people buy existing restaurants, when starting your own can be cheaper?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Bullshit.  The restaurant is selling a menu and service...food and delivery.  That's the 'stuff' of the restaurant.

Goodwill is bullshite that an owner uses to pump up the price.

Why do people buy existing restaurants, when starting your own can be cheaper?

A lot of them don't. But if they do, they are buying the menu and the service, which are true assets.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

But the goodwill had NO real world value at all.
I KNOW charlatan accountants will Bullshit and say it has value JUST because some idiot will pay for it.
But someone paying for it and Value ARE NOT THE SAME, the lie perpetuated by the Financial sector is what causes Economic Bubbles and caused the GFC.

time for an Economic Revolution where the Old lies around 'value' and subsequently the 'fallacy of the fallacy' are put to bed as the deceptions that they are.

If you start a restaurant with 200k and sell it for 400k because you have built such a popular place, it's value is 400k.  200 of that is goodwill.  Now the buyer could have started his own restaurant for 200k, but decided it was a better value to pay twice as much for yours. That's where goodwill comes into play. A business is more than the value of its property, plant and equipment.  

Bullshit.  The restaurant is selling a menu and service...food and delivery.  That's the 'stuff' of the restaurant.

Goodwill is bullshite that an owner uses to pump up the price.

Exactly Quill,
the one off sale prce is Not Actual value,
the only REAL tangible value is the property(physical and intellectual), plant and equipment.

But Charlatan Accountancy has become the norm, thus the system is fucked as In maddogs example there is now 200K imaginary value on the books which the company can borrow against, creating the illusion that there is 'value created out of nothing'. But if shit hits the fan and they need so sell the assets to pay the debts, there is nothing to sell because it was Fake, just a product of Charlatan Accountancy... Obviously if this occurs widely through an economy we get a 'GFC event' cause so much 'value' disappears off the books because it never actually existed in real life.

veya_victaous wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Bullshit.  The restaurant is selling a menu and service...food and delivery.  That's the 'stuff' of the restaurant.

Goodwill is bullshite that an owner uses to pump up the price.

Exactly Quill,
the one off sale prce is Not Actual value,
the only REAL tangible value is the property(physical and intellectual), plant and equipment.

But Charlatan Accountancy has become the norm, thus the system is fucked as In maddogs example there is now 200K imaginary value on the books which the company can borrow against, creating the illusion that there is 'value created out of nothing'. But if shit hits the fan and they need so sell the assets to pay the debts, there is nothing to sell because it was Fake, just a product of Charlatan Accountancy... Obviously if this occurs widely through an economy we get a 'GFC event' cause so much 'value' disappears off the books because it never actually existed in real life.  

In my scenario, the owner made an additional 200k at the sale of his business, which is counted as goodwill.

It will also be counted as an increase in capital gains an the owner will be taxed for that increase in very real wealth.

Veya, you keep bring up fraud, which is totally different matter.

Maddog wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Bullshit.  The restaurant is selling a menu and service...food and delivery.  That's the 'stuff' of the restaurant.

Goodwill is bullshite that an owner uses to pump up the price.

Exactly Quill,
the one off sale prce is Not Actual value,
the only REAL tangible value is the property(physical and intellectual), plant and equipment.

But Charlatan Accountancy has become the norm, thus the system is fucked as In maddogs example there is now 200K imaginary value on the books which the company can borrow against, creating the illusion that there is 'value created out of nothing'. But if shit hits the fan and they need so sell the assets to pay the debts, there is nothing to sell because it was Fake, just a product of Charlatan Accountancy... Obviously if this occurs widely through an economy we get a 'GFC event' cause so much 'value' disappears off the books because it never actually existed in real life.  

In my scenario, the owner made an additional 200k at the sale of his business, which is counted as goodwill.

It will also be counted as an increase in capital gains an the owner will be taxed for that increase in very real wealth.    

Veya, you keep bring up fraud, which is totally different matter.  

just because it is legal Doesn't make it not Fraudulent, the Whole System is a Shame based on Bullshit, like the fallacy of the fallacy. But as in the example
When Pushed to Back this Supposed 'Infinite created value' it cannot be backed by ACTUAL tangible Value. Like Goodwill It is Actually a Fraudulent Claim of 'Value'. It's a make believe Lie created by Accountants to fill in their books but NOT backed in the real world.

yes, the Seller Made $200k MORE than the Value of the business they sold, the Business is not then worth $400K even though that is what the Buyer and the banks will have in their FRAUDULENT books. the Banks and the buyers Accountants are Frauds by following the Fraudulent lies that are used through out the Industry. the Whole Financial Industry is involved in Fraud because it is inherent in the methodology of their book keeping.

If an employee, with good credentials, were to ask for $42/hr., but because of his excellent credentials demanded and extra $20/hr. for goodwill, he would be laughed out of his chair.

Now I agree he should just ask for $20 more per hour, but it shows you that goodwill is a bogus concept.

Original Quill wrote:If an employee, with good credentials, were to ask for $42/hr., but because of his excellent credentials demanded and extra $20/hr. for goodwill, he would be laughed out of his chair.

Now I agree he should just ask for $20 more per hour, but it shows you that goodwill is a bogus concept.

Then why are people taxed on it when they earn it?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:If an employee, with good credentials, were to ask for $42/hr., but because of his excellent credentials demanded and extra $20/hr. for goodwill, he would be laughed out of his chair.

Now I agree he should just ask for $20 more per hour, but it shows you that goodwill is a bogus concept.

Then why are people taxed on it when they earn it?

Individual taxpayers are not taxed on goodwill. It's simply called income tax.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Then why are people taxed on it when they earn it?

Individual taxpayers are not taxed on goodwill.  It's simply called income tax.

It's called capital gains. If you invest 200k in a business and sell it for 500k you have made 300k.

You will be taxed on that profit even if it represents more than the tangible assets in the company.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Individual taxpayers are not taxed on goodwill.  It's simply called income tax.

It's called capital gains.  If you invest 200k in a business and sell it for 500k you have made 300k.  

You will be taxed on that profit even if it represents more than the tangible assets in the company.  

Your whole personal concept of "goodwill" is totally ridiculous...

The whole notion of having goodwill equal to or greater than the actual physical value of a business is so totally out of whack with reality, you would need a gullible know-nothing fool with too much money to burn, to sell such a business too..

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Individual taxpayers are not taxed on goodwill.  It's simply called income tax.

It's called capital gains.  If you invest 200k in a business and sell it for 500k you have made 300k.  

You will be taxed on that profit even if it represents more than the tangible assets in the company.  

Your whole personal concept of "goodwill" is totally ridiculous...

The whole notion of having goodwill equal to or greater than the actual physical value of a business is so  totally out of whack with reality, you would need a gullible know-nothing fool with too much money to burn, to sell such a business too..

TO be fair to maddog this actually happens all the time
 
IT's not the real problem (a fool and his money etc)
You see in typical 'down on his luck billionaire' thinking maddog only considers it from the sellers side
Ignoring the fact that this make believe value is then put in the books of the Buyer as the value of the business.

It's as if a farmer put the cows value at the weight of the cow by the price of T-bone steak, yes it is what it could be sold for 'conditionally' but it is not the value you are going to get in the real world when you sell a whole cow.

Where it becomes a HUGE issue which needs to be dealt with is that the buyer can borrow against the supposed value of the business. and what happens when the banks foreclose and try and recover the assets used as assurance for the loan? *PFFFFfffft* Disappears in to GFC Black whole

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Maddog wrote:

It's called capital gains.  If you invest 200k in a business and sell it for 500k you have made 300k.  

You will be taxed on that profit even if it represents more than the tangible assets in the company.  

Your whole personal concept of "goodwill" is totally ridiculous...

The whole notion of having goodwill equal to or greater than the actual physical value of a business is so  totally out of whack with reality, you would need a gullible know-nothing fool with too much money to burn, to sell such a business too..

So when some builds a successful business all they are doing is amassing tangible assets? There is no other value in a successful business than the sum of its parts?

veya_victaous wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


Your whole personal concept of "goodwill" is totally ridiculous...

The whole notion of having goodwill equal to or greater than the actual physical value of a business is so  totally out of whack with reality, you would need a gullible know-nothing fool with too much money to burn, to sell such a business too..

TO be fair to maddog this actually happens all the time
 
IT's not the real problem (a fool and his money etc)
You see in typical 'down on his luck billionaire' thinking maddog only considers it from the sellers side
Ignoring the fact that this make believe value is then put in the books of the Buyer as the value of the business.

It's as if a farmer put the cows value at the weight of the cow by the price of T-bone steak, yes it is what it could be sold for 'conditionally' but it is not the value you are going to get in the real world when you sell a whole cow.

Where it becomes a HUGE issue which needs to be dealt with is that the buyer can borrow against the supposed value of the business. and what happens when the banks foreclose and try and recover the assets used as assurance for the loan? *PFFFFfffft* Disappears in to GFC Black whole

Of course it happens all the time. Because the value of a business is far more than the value of its tangible assets.

Do you really think the value of Apple is limited to it's property, plant and equipment?

Do you think stock prices are tied to physical assets alone?

Apple is a good example of how the system is fraudulent.
YES Apple should only really be valued at the price of it's assets
the fact people are greedy idiots doesn't mean there is any more ACTUAL value

What happens to all those greedy idiots money in a stock market crash or if a company becomes insolvent?
It disappears, back down to the REAL value which is that of the assets held by the company. Because despite the Charlatan accountancy fraudulently adding 'value', that is what it was ACTUALLY worth in real value when it comes to crunch time.

Maddog wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


Your whole personal concept of "goodwill" is totally ridiculous...

The whole notion of having goodwill equal to or greater than the actual physical value of a business is so  totally out of whack with reality, you would need a gullible know-nothing fool with too much money to burn, to sell such a business too..

So when some builds a successful business all they are doing is amassing tangible assets? There is no other value in a successful business than the sum of its parts?

 

I never said there was "no" value in intangibles and invisibles among a business's assets,  you gormless dunderhead...

Only suggesting that your examples are totally ridiculous, and grossly exaggerated..

As any value placed on such things as "goodwill", intellectual property and branding is largely dependent on the current management team, marketing, and potential future earnings and market penetration/expansion opportunities,  your example of "goodwill" being worth just as much as the business itself is totally ludicrous. Ten or twenty per cent might be more realistic in many cases..

Dutch Tulips come to mind;  and some of the silly prices offered for some internet 'startups' over the years...      

veya_victaous wrote:Apple is a good example of how the system is fraudulent.
YES Apple should only really be valued at the price of it's assets
the fact people are greedy idiots doesn't mean there is any more ACTUAL value

What happens to all those greedy idiots money in a stock market crash or if a company becomes insolvent?
It disappears, back down to the REAL value which is that of the assets held by the company. Because despite the Charlatan accountancy fraudulently adding 'value', that is what it was ACTUALLY worth in real value when it comes to crunch time.

You don't know what value is. The value of a company is based in part by brand loyalty, the quality of the employees, profits, corporate culture and a myriad of other factors beyond tangible assets. This value is realized when companies sell, regardless of what is placed on the books.


On another note, I often appraise homes before they are exposed to the market. The value of the real estate is more than just tangible items. One could say my estimate of value is simply that, but I wouldn't be in business long, if the actual sale price of the real estate didn't closely reflect my estimate. Just because you don't understand value doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Maddog wrote:

So when some builds a successful business all they are doing is amassing tangible assets? There is no other value in a successful business than the sum of its parts?

 

I never said there was "no" value in intangibles and invisibles among a business's assets,  you gormless dunderhead...

Only suggesting that your examples are totally ridiculous, and grossly exaggerated..

As any value placed on such things as "goodwill", intellectual property and branding is largely dependent on the current management team, marketing, and potential future earnings and market penetration/expansion opportunities,  your example of "goodwill" being worth just as much as the business itself is totally ludicrous.   Ten or twenty per cent might be more realistic in many cases..

Dutch Tulips come to mind;  and some of the silly prices offered for some internet 'startups' over the years...      

Why only 10 to 20 percent. Many internet companies have very low amounts of tangible assets in relation to their profits. The don't need a spawling factory and a bunch of machines to be valuable.

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Goodwill has value.  You and someone who values businesses may disagree on that value, but value is there nonetheless.  You can see it when a business sells.  

Just because people have lied about how much value was there, doesn't mean there was no value there.  

A lot of the estimates are based on revenue streams.  Much like I do when I value income producing property.  A proven track record of certain rental amounts can get you dialed in pretty well.  

Great, now do me a balance sheet for love, I'd really like to know how valuable that is and if I can earn money off of it or just disregard it because it discourages profitability.

I think love is better described in songs and poetry, a craft I have zero ability in.

Maddog wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:Apple is a good example of how the system is fraudulent.
YES Apple should only really be valued at the price of it's assets
the fact people are greedy idiots doesn't mean there is any more ACTUAL value

What happens to all those greedy idiots money in a stock market crash or if a company becomes insolvent?
It disappears, back down to the REAL value which is that of the assets held by the company. Because despite the Charlatan accountancy fraudulently adding 'value', that is what it was ACTUALLY worth in real value when it comes to crunch time.

You don't know what value is.  The value of a company is based in part by brand loyalty, the quality of the employees, profits, corporate culture and a myriad of other factors beyond tangible assets. This value is realized when companies sell, regardless of what is placed on the books.  


On another note, I often appraise homes before they are exposed to the market.  The value of the real estate is more than just tangible items. One could say my estimate of value is simply that, but I wouldn't be in business long, if the actual sale price of the real estate didn't closely reflect my estimate.  Just because you don't understand value doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  

No it doesn't
YES I know Scam artists and frauds Like to lie about the value things.
BUT IF they were right then We wouldn't have recessions
We have them because when your make believe value gets to high it Pops and disappears into the ether with all other make believe things
Cause it's not Real.

Sale price is NOT real value, Repossession Price is the real value
the fact the there is a whole industry of scam artists profiting from pushing the Lies doesn't make it true.

Maddog wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Maddog wrote:

So when some builds a successful business all they are doing is amassing tangible assets? There is no other value in a successful business than the sum of its parts?

 

I never said there was "no" value in intangibles and invisibles among a business's assets,  you gormless dunderhead...

Only suggesting that your examples are totally ridiculous, and grossly exaggerated..

As any value placed on such things as "goodwill", intellectual property and branding is largely dependent on the current management team, marketing, and potential future earnings and market penetration/expansion opportunities,  your example of "goodwill" being worth just as much as the business itself is totally ludicrous.   Ten or twenty per cent might be more realistic in many cases..

Dutch Tulips come to mind;  and some of the silly prices offered for some internet 'startups' over the years...      

Why only 10 to 20 percent. Many internet companies have very low amounts of tangible assets in relation to their profits.  The don't need a spawling factory and a bunch of machines to be valuable.  

the ones that don't disappear in the inevitable bust DO own assets
Intellectual Property is still assets. Goodwill should not be counted though
Again in repossession, You can sell the copyrights and patents you hold but you can't sell the make believe number you wrote in your books as 'goodwill'

Maddog wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


I never said there was "no" value in intangibles and invisibles among a business's assets,  you gormless dunderhead...

Only suggesting that your examples are totally ridiculous, and grossly exaggerated..

As any value placed on such things as "goodwill", intellectual property and branding is largely dependent on the current management team, marketing, and potential future earnings and market penetration/expansion opportunities,  your example of "goodwill" being worth just as much as the business itself is totally ludicrous.   Ten or twenty per cent might be more realistic in many cases..

Dutch Tulips come to mind;  and some of the silly prices offered for some internet 'startups' over the years...      

Why only 10 to 20 percent. Many internet companies have very low amounts of tangible assets in relation to their profits.  The don't need a spawling factory and a bunch of machines to be valuable.  

Have a look at companies like GM and Ford...

Twenty years ago, they were the worlds' biggest and 3rd or 4th biggest car manufacturers, respectively...

Today, they are #4 and #6..

A lot of GMs imaginary "goodwill" dissappeared around the time of the GFC.

Then there's the likes of Exxon;  and those scamming cowboy traders from Enron..
Oh, and did I mention Dutch Tulips  ???

And how are those Bitcoin gamblers going --  that pony has halved in value since its record high last year..        

veya_victaous wrote:

And if you are black, you are already dead.

veya_victaous wrote:

But it helps.  I went to law school, not to practice law, but to know who was fooking with me, and how to fight back.