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About Us & RulesBari Weiss and the Left-Wing Infatuation With Taking Offense
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Bari Weiss and the Left-Wing Infatuation With Taking Offense
by Guest Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:17 pm
First topic message reminder :
The mob was unusually vociferous, even for Twitter. After the California-born ice skater Mirai Nagasu became the first American woman to land a triple axel at the Olympics, the New York Times writer Bari Weiss commented “Immigrants: They get the job done.”
What followed that innocuous tweet was one of the sillier, manufactured controversies I have ever seen on Twitter. Twitter’s socially conscious denizens probably only realized they should be outraged at Weiss after they saw other people being outraged, as is so often the case. Outside of Twitter, some of
Weiss’s Times colleagues were also offended by the tweet—and even hurt by it. Thecritics’ objection was that Nagasu isn’t herself an immigrant, but rather the child of immigrants, and so calling her one was an example of “perpetual othering.”
I, too, am the child of immigrants. And if I were an Olympic figure skater and people associated me with immigrants—or called me an immigrant outright—I wouldn’t think twice. I would take it as a compliment, particularly because immigrants are one of the main reasons America is great.
Perhaps Weiss should have acknowledged the hurt she caused and apologized—or at least tried to understand why her comments were perceived as insensitive, or worse. But the premise behind this suggestion is itself problematic: Just because hundreds of people found something offensive doesn’t mean that it was, in fact, offensive.
As an Arab and a Muslim, I get the questions “Where are you from?”—by which people usually mean “Where are you really from?”—and “Were you born here?” quite often. It doesn’t usually occur to me to get offended. Similarly, when I ask someone where they’re from originally, and they tell me Connecticut, I am tempted to roll my eyes, since I don’t necessarily care that they’re from Connecticut. It’s only recently, as I’ve engaged more deeply in debates around identity politics, that I’ve become more conscious that I am often the only Muslim in a room.
In our identitarian age, the bar for offense has been lowered considerably, which makes democratic debate more difficult—citizens are more likely to withhold their true opinions if they fear being labeled as bigoted or insensitive. (The irony, of course, is that I can be a critic of identity politics without being labeled racist in part because of identity politics.) In the longer term, the effects of identity-driven discussions become even more pernicious. As I recently argued, basing our positions on who we are rather than what we believe is polarizing precisely because identities are more fixed than ideas.
This is why identity politics can sometimes seem like a new sort of political theology. Belief and conviction are good things, but only if there’s something to believe in. Identity politics and the virtue-outbidding it necessitates often signal the absence of religion in search of religion—with followers mimicking its constituent elements: ritual, purity, atonement, and excommunication.
In purely practical terms, moral posturing doesn’t usually change anyone’s mind, because people intuitively interpret it “as a form of jockeying for in-group status.” But it doesn’t need to change minds, nor is it necessarily supposed to. Its point is to transform politics into a question of purity. It’s not enough to have the right opinion or intent: The precise words used to convey the right opinion become just as important, as Weiss herself quickly found out. Within this framework, acknowledging the legitimacy of different opinions—if the language used can conceivably be seen as insensitive to a disadvantaged group—becomes more than difficult, too; it becomes a moral failing.
The disagreement within the left about the role and relevance of identity has bled into the larger culture. It is a dangerous disagreement, and it needs to be fought. Identity politics, as the backlash to Weiss shows, is divisive; it is polarizing; and it distracts from more fundamental debates. The large part of the country that is left-of-center, if it has any interest in winning elections, cannot simply depend on anti-Trumpism. It needs new ideas, but that requires actually having them. In the place of ideas, there is whatever this is: small differences, indignation, and an infatuation with being offended.
https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/553550/?utm_source=twb&__twitter_impression=true
The mob was unusually vociferous, even for Twitter. After the California-born ice skater Mirai Nagasu became the first American woman to land a triple axel at the Olympics, the New York Times writer Bari Weiss commented “Immigrants: They get the job done.”
What followed that innocuous tweet was one of the sillier, manufactured controversies I have ever seen on Twitter. Twitter’s socially conscious denizens probably only realized they should be outraged at Weiss after they saw other people being outraged, as is so often the case. Outside of Twitter, some of
Weiss’s Times colleagues were also offended by the tweet—and even hurt by it. Thecritics’ objection was that Nagasu isn’t herself an immigrant, but rather the child of immigrants, and so calling her one was an example of “perpetual othering.”
I, too, am the child of immigrants. And if I were an Olympic figure skater and people associated me with immigrants—or called me an immigrant outright—I wouldn’t think twice. I would take it as a compliment, particularly because immigrants are one of the main reasons America is great.
Perhaps Weiss should have acknowledged the hurt she caused and apologized—or at least tried to understand why her comments were perceived as insensitive, or worse. But the premise behind this suggestion is itself problematic: Just because hundreds of people found something offensive doesn’t mean that it was, in fact, offensive.
As an Arab and a Muslim, I get the questions “Where are you from?”—by which people usually mean “Where are you really from?”—and “Were you born here?” quite often. It doesn’t usually occur to me to get offended. Similarly, when I ask someone where they’re from originally, and they tell me Connecticut, I am tempted to roll my eyes, since I don’t necessarily care that they’re from Connecticut. It’s only recently, as I’ve engaged more deeply in debates around identity politics, that I’ve become more conscious that I am often the only Muslim in a room.
In our identitarian age, the bar for offense has been lowered considerably, which makes democratic debate more difficult—citizens are more likely to withhold their true opinions if they fear being labeled as bigoted or insensitive. (The irony, of course, is that I can be a critic of identity politics without being labeled racist in part because of identity politics.) In the longer term, the effects of identity-driven discussions become even more pernicious. As I recently argued, basing our positions on who we are rather than what we believe is polarizing precisely because identities are more fixed than ideas.
This is why identity politics can sometimes seem like a new sort of political theology. Belief and conviction are good things, but only if there’s something to believe in. Identity politics and the virtue-outbidding it necessitates often signal the absence of religion in search of religion—with followers mimicking its constituent elements: ritual, purity, atonement, and excommunication.
In purely practical terms, moral posturing doesn’t usually change anyone’s mind, because people intuitively interpret it “as a form of jockeying for in-group status.” But it doesn’t need to change minds, nor is it necessarily supposed to. Its point is to transform politics into a question of purity. It’s not enough to have the right opinion or intent: The precise words used to convey the right opinion become just as important, as Weiss herself quickly found out. Within this framework, acknowledging the legitimacy of different opinions—if the language used can conceivably be seen as insensitive to a disadvantaged group—becomes more than difficult, too; it becomes a moral failing.
The disagreement within the left about the role and relevance of identity has bled into the larger culture. It is a dangerous disagreement, and it needs to be fought. Identity politics, as the backlash to Weiss shows, is divisive; it is polarizing; and it distracts from more fundamental debates. The large part of the country that is left-of-center, if it has any interest in winning elections, cannot simply depend on anti-Trumpism. It needs new ideas, but that requires actually having them. In the place of ideas, there is whatever this is: small differences, indignation, and an infatuation with being offended.
https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/553550/?utm_source=twb&__twitter_impression=true
Guest- Guest
Re: Bari Weiss and the Left-Wing Infatuation With Taking Offense
by 'Wolfie Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:07 am
Maddog wrote:veya_victaous wrote:
it's not a statement of Race, it is a Statement of NATIONALITY, she is an American born in America.
Her Parents are Immigrants AGAIN if they said Child of Immigrants that would be Fine because it's true.
it is Racist to try and Define someones Nationality by Skin Colour
For about the third time on this thread let me explain this to you. The children of immigrants are called second generation immigrants, and therefore immigrants.
Not because of where they were born, but because many of them share the same life experiences as first generation immigrants, due to their parents immigrant status.
A five year old girl going to school in the US, not speaking any English has the same experience whether she was born here, or came here at 4 years of age.
Fuck me, you're a fucking lying stupid geranium !!!
Immigrants come from another fucking country...
"Immigrants" are not born in country..
Children of immigrants cannot be called immigrants.
By your own stupid and wrong definition, the only ones who can be called Americans are your indigenois native American citizens..
You fucking neo-nazi white supremacist scumbag fuckwit...
'Wolfie- Forum Detective ????♀️
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Re: Bari Weiss and the Left-Wing Infatuation With Taking Offense
by Maddog Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:07 am
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:Maddog wrote:
For about the third time on this thread let me explain this to you. The children of immigrants are called second generation immigrants, and therefore immigrants.
Not because of where they were born, but because many of them share the same life experiences as first generation immigrants, due to their parents immigrant status.
A five year old girl going to school in the US, not speaking any English has the same experience whether she was born here, or came here at 4 years of age.
Fuck me, you're a fucking lying stupid geranium !!!
Immigrants come from another fucking country...
"Immigrants" are not born in country..
Children of immigrants cannot be called immigrants.
By your own stupid and wrong definition, the only ones who can be called Americans are your indigenois native American citizens..
You fucking neo-nazi white supremacist scumbag fuckwit...
Wrong again. 2nd generation immigrants are considered immigrants. No later generations are.
Simmer down you raging spastic fuck.
Maddog- The newsfix Queen
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Location : Texas
Re: Bari Weiss and the Left-Wing Infatuation With Taking Offense
by Guest Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:11 am
veya_victaous wrote:Didge and Maddog
have conclusively Shown WHY people are upset with this Announcer and Why it is Valid Because there is still a lot of People that DON'T understand the pretty fucking basic concepts of the Individuals Nationality and Ethnicity
And Not Saying Shit that is NOT TRUE about some one because of skin colour or Appearance. the Announcer wouldn't have said anything if it had been a White Girl even if she was actually an Immigrant.
The problem simple here is emphatically you
My mother for example is an immigrant and a British citizen
7 million people in the UK are foreign born, the majority being British citizens.
You are the one trying to define people and ignore facts
You are proving its not immigrants that are upset, but people not immigrants trying to decide whether they should be upset or not.
Hence immigrants are not the problem, neither is people saying and praising immigrants, Its left wing ideology that is the proplem
Guest- Guest
Re: Bari Weiss and the Left-Wing Infatuation With Taking Offense
by Guest Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:36 am
veya_victaous wrote:Didge wrote:
So you are stating that based on her nationality, you can decide her ethnicity then?
Nobody denied her nationality based on skin co,lour here
Its only you inventing this here
YES you are denying HER NATIONAILTY
You are claiming she is an IMMIGRANT when she was Born in the Nation and is American by BIRTH not Migration.
When did I EVER MENTION ETHNICITY !!!!!
it is YOU that has INCORRECTLY Conflated Nationality with Ethnicity.
American or Australian is NOT an ethnicity it is a Nationality defined by CITIZENSHIP
NOT Race NOT Ethnicity NOT skin Colour
Why do you continually lie?
Show me where I have denied anyone their nationality?
I have not conflated anything wrong here and again you show its people like you that is the problem.
America and Australian are concepts, but they are also ethnic groups, showing you have no idea what you are talking about. For example, you have Irish Americans, Italian Americans, Swedish Americans, Irish Australians etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Australians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Australians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Australians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Australians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Australians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Australians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sudanese_Australians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Australians
I can do this all day
Are you going to deny these people their unique ethnic groups
Again what we are seeing here, is invented outrage, by left wing idiotolgy
Guest- Guest
Re: Bari Weiss and the Left-Wing Infatuation With Taking Offense
by Victorismyhero Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:37 pm
And,,,you all forget
you do NOT have the right not to be offended
you do NOT have the right not to be offended
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Re: Bari Weiss and the Left-Wing Infatuation With Taking Offense
by 'Wolfie Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:48 pm
Maddog wrote:WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
Fuck me, you're a fucking lying stupid geranium !!!
Immigrants come from another fucking country...
"Immigrants" are not born in country..
Children of immigrants cannot be called immigrants.
By your own stupid and wrong definition, the only ones who can be called Americans are your indigenois native American citizens..
You fucking neo-nazi white supremacist scumbag fuckwit...
Wrong again. 2nd generation immigrants are considered immigrants. No later generations are.
Simmer down you raging spastic fuck.
You really are a pathetically arrogant idiot and dullard...
Just because your fellow illiterate fuckups in your fuck-witted corner of the universe think that way doesn't make it so..
The rest of the world doesn't call a native-born resident an "immigrant" -- they may well call them something else, but "immigrant" isn't one of those things
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Join date : 2016-02-24
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