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veya_victaous
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Maddog
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Democrats Are Being Outmaneuvered
by Guest Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:13 am
First topic message reminder :
A fair scoring of the Trump presidency’s first year would have to hand 2017 to Democrats. The opposition party exploited the Trump-led GOP’s mistakes and excesses and translated them into victories both on Capitol Hill and at polling places around the country. But that was then and this is now. Democrats remain married to tactics that have not served them so well in the New Year. Democrats are not winning this moment. They don’t know it yet.
Not even the most optimistic Republican could have anticipated the reaction that markets and large employers have had to the first significant overhaul of the tax code in over 30 years. Since that bill was signed into law on December 19, firm after firm has announced its intention to share the windfall with its employees in the form of raises, bonuses, and 401(k) hikes. Manufacturers ranging from Chrysler to Apple are repatriating capital and factories they had parked overseas. Even the minimum wage is on the rise for several major employers, including Walmart and financial institutions like Wells Fargo, U.S. Bank, and Bank of New York Mellon Corp.
Democrats had argued that the Republican tax code reform plan would benefit only the wealthy and, despite the strong economy and tight labor market, corporations were unlikely to reinvest their new capital. The Democratic message has not adapted along with changing conditions. They feel obliged to undermine the good news surrounding tax code reform, but they’ve gone about it in a spectacularly tone-deaf fashion.
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said the $1,000 bonuses that a variety of firms had provided their employees in the wake of tax code reform amount to “crumbs” and “pathetic” gifts designed to purchase cheap loyalty. Rather than invest in their employees, she added, these firms should “invest in infrastructure.” Pelosi later called these bonuses and wage hikes “cute,” but ultimately insulting to the American worker because they are not commensurate with the advantage corporate tax reform provides employers. “Some of them are getting raises, and the rest are getting crumbs,” Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer agreed. When “you spread $1,000 over the course of the year,” former Democratic National Committee Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz pondered, “I’m not sure that $1,000 (which is taxed, taxable) goes very for almost anyone.”
If the Democratic Party is trying to convince voters that the GOP is detached from the concerns of average Americans, demonstrating you have no idea how far $1,000 goes is a bad way to go about it. For a family making the median household income (as of September of last year), $1,000 is more than 20 percent of their monthly income.
Democrats might hope to trade on lingering antipathy toward the tax bill they successfully fomented in the run-up to its passage, but the narrative that worked in December is going to start yielding diminishing returns. The headlines speak for themselves; even just the anticipatory effects of this tax bill are not being enjoyed exclusively by the wealthy. The longer Democrats ask voters to believe them over their lying eyes, the more they will find that they are only preaching to the converted.
Similarly, the GOP has boxed the Democratic Party in on the issue of immigration reform.
On Thursday night, the White House revealed the outlines of what amounts to a skinny immigration reform package. The one-page memo outlined a plan to provide a pathway to citizenship not just for the roughly 700,000 beneficiaries of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, which expires in March, but some 1.8 million DACA-eligible immigrants—approximately half the estimated population of immigrants who were taken into the U.S. as minors. In exchange, the White House requested $25 billion for security at both the Mexican and Canadian borders. Furthermore, the White House requested curbs on family migration, limiting the extended family that these formerly illegal immigrants could bring with them into the U.S.
This is a reasonable initial offer. The administration, having just secured an unambiguous victory over Democrats following a failed legislative gambit that resulted in a brief government shutdown, could have pressed their luck. Instead, the White House barely budged off its initial request for border security funding. Meanwhile, the administration made a big step toward resolving the status of nearly two million illegal immigrants, which has enraged some in the president’s immigration-hawk base. In fact, the White House reportedly had a difficult time trying to sell immigration restrictionists on the plan. “Lots of them hate the proposal,” Axios reporter Jonathan Swan related. Mark Krikorian, the executive director for the Center for Immigration Studies, summed up his fellow hawks’ thoughts succinctly: “Time to start burning your #MAGA hats.”
But for all the administration’s overtures toward Democrats, the responses have been hyperbolic and inflexible. Senator Dick Durbin said Trump had taken DREAMers “hostage” and was on a “crusade to tear families apart.” “The White House is using Dreamers to mask their underlying xenophobic, isolationist, and un-American policies,” wrote Democratic Rep. Michelle Lujan Grisham. Pelosi called Trump’s proposed restrictions on extended family unification represent “an unmistakable campaign to make America white again,” which aligned with sentiments in the liberal grassroots. A statement by the activist organization United We Dream called Trump’s immigration proposal “a white supremacist ransom note.”
This means Democrats are again handing the keys over to the party’s activist base just days after the party’s activists drove them into a ditch. Democrats spent months insisting that they wanted a “clean” bill to restore long-term funding for the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP). When they got it, [url=https://www.commentarymagazine.com/politics-ideas/democrats-are-being-outmaneuvered/Children%E2%80%99s Health Insurance Program (CHIP)]they voted against it[/url]—sacrificing their claims on CHIP in the process. Now, the White House has made a good faith attempt to find common ground on DACA, only to be called racist for the effort. This is a remarkably short-sighted and parochial strategy.
By insisting that $1,000 constitute “crumbs” and giving citizenship to nearly 2 million illegal residents is racist, Democrats are flirting with utter incoherence. These claims might enliven their base, but they risk turning off every other sentient voter capable of an objective thought. Moreover, unreasonable polemics have a habit of activating the opposing side’s partisans at a time when reliable Republican voters have been staying away from the polls. The risks of the Democratic Party’s present course seem to outweigh the rewards.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/politics-ideas/democrats-are-being-outmaneuvered/
A fair scoring of the Trump presidency’s first year would have to hand 2017 to Democrats. The opposition party exploited the Trump-led GOP’s mistakes and excesses and translated them into victories both on Capitol Hill and at polling places around the country. But that was then and this is now. Democrats remain married to tactics that have not served them so well in the New Year. Democrats are not winning this moment. They don’t know it yet.
Not even the most optimistic Republican could have anticipated the reaction that markets and large employers have had to the first significant overhaul of the tax code in over 30 years. Since that bill was signed into law on December 19, firm after firm has announced its intention to share the windfall with its employees in the form of raises, bonuses, and 401(k) hikes. Manufacturers ranging from Chrysler to Apple are repatriating capital and factories they had parked overseas. Even the minimum wage is on the rise for several major employers, including Walmart and financial institutions like Wells Fargo, U.S. Bank, and Bank of New York Mellon Corp.
Democrats had argued that the Republican tax code reform plan would benefit only the wealthy and, despite the strong economy and tight labor market, corporations were unlikely to reinvest their new capital. The Democratic message has not adapted along with changing conditions. They feel obliged to undermine the good news surrounding tax code reform, but they’ve gone about it in a spectacularly tone-deaf fashion.
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said the $1,000 bonuses that a variety of firms had provided their employees in the wake of tax code reform amount to “crumbs” and “pathetic” gifts designed to purchase cheap loyalty. Rather than invest in their employees, she added, these firms should “invest in infrastructure.” Pelosi later called these bonuses and wage hikes “cute,” but ultimately insulting to the American worker because they are not commensurate with the advantage corporate tax reform provides employers. “Some of them are getting raises, and the rest are getting crumbs,” Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer agreed. When “you spread $1,000 over the course of the year,” former Democratic National Committee Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz pondered, “I’m not sure that $1,000 (which is taxed, taxable) goes very for almost anyone.”
If the Democratic Party is trying to convince voters that the GOP is detached from the concerns of average Americans, demonstrating you have no idea how far $1,000 goes is a bad way to go about it. For a family making the median household income (as of September of last year), $1,000 is more than 20 percent of their monthly income.
Democrats might hope to trade on lingering antipathy toward the tax bill they successfully fomented in the run-up to its passage, but the narrative that worked in December is going to start yielding diminishing returns. The headlines speak for themselves; even just the anticipatory effects of this tax bill are not being enjoyed exclusively by the wealthy. The longer Democrats ask voters to believe them over their lying eyes, the more they will find that they are only preaching to the converted.
Similarly, the GOP has boxed the Democratic Party in on the issue of immigration reform.
On Thursday night, the White House revealed the outlines of what amounts to a skinny immigration reform package. The one-page memo outlined a plan to provide a pathway to citizenship not just for the roughly 700,000 beneficiaries of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, which expires in March, but some 1.8 million DACA-eligible immigrants—approximately half the estimated population of immigrants who were taken into the U.S. as minors. In exchange, the White House requested $25 billion for security at both the Mexican and Canadian borders. Furthermore, the White House requested curbs on family migration, limiting the extended family that these formerly illegal immigrants could bring with them into the U.S.
This is a reasonable initial offer. The administration, having just secured an unambiguous victory over Democrats following a failed legislative gambit that resulted in a brief government shutdown, could have pressed their luck. Instead, the White House barely budged off its initial request for border security funding. Meanwhile, the administration made a big step toward resolving the status of nearly two million illegal immigrants, which has enraged some in the president’s immigration-hawk base. In fact, the White House reportedly had a difficult time trying to sell immigration restrictionists on the plan. “Lots of them hate the proposal,” Axios reporter Jonathan Swan related. Mark Krikorian, the executive director for the Center for Immigration Studies, summed up his fellow hawks’ thoughts succinctly: “Time to start burning your #MAGA hats.”
But for all the administration’s overtures toward Democrats, the responses have been hyperbolic and inflexible. Senator Dick Durbin said Trump had taken DREAMers “hostage” and was on a “crusade to tear families apart.” “The White House is using Dreamers to mask their underlying xenophobic, isolationist, and un-American policies,” wrote Democratic Rep. Michelle Lujan Grisham. Pelosi called Trump’s proposed restrictions on extended family unification represent “an unmistakable campaign to make America white again,” which aligned with sentiments in the liberal grassroots. A statement by the activist organization United We Dream called Trump’s immigration proposal “a white supremacist ransom note.”
This means Democrats are again handing the keys over to the party’s activist base just days after the party’s activists drove them into a ditch. Democrats spent months insisting that they wanted a “clean” bill to restore long-term funding for the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP). When they got it, [url=https://www.commentarymagazine.com/politics-ideas/democrats-are-being-outmaneuvered/Children%E2%80%99s Health Insurance Program (CHIP)]they voted against it[/url]—sacrificing their claims on CHIP in the process. Now, the White House has made a good faith attempt to find common ground on DACA, only to be called racist for the effort. This is a remarkably short-sighted and parochial strategy.
By insisting that $1,000 constitute “crumbs” and giving citizenship to nearly 2 million illegal residents is racist, Democrats are flirting with utter incoherence. These claims might enliven their base, but they risk turning off every other sentient voter capable of an objective thought. Moreover, unreasonable polemics have a habit of activating the opposing side’s partisans at a time when reliable Republican voters have been staying away from the polls. The risks of the Democratic Party’s present course seem to outweigh the rewards.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/politics-ideas/democrats-are-being-outmaneuvered/
Guest- Guest
Re: Democrats Are Being Outmaneuvered
by veya_victaous Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:18 pm
it is easy to see how you can inspire people to do what is best for the majority 
BUT it's hard to see how some many can be dumb enough to let the Rich enslave and kill millions of their fellow man, when they get nothing but a few crumbs from their tables.
BUT it's hard to see how some many can be dumb enough to let the Rich enslave and kill millions of their fellow man, when they get nothing but a few crumbs from their tables.
veya_victaous- The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo
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Re: Democrats Are Being Outmaneuvered
by Maddog Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:39 pm
veya_victaous wrote:it is easy to see how you can inspire people to do what is best for the majority
BUT it's hard to see how some many can be dumb enough to let the Rich enslave and kill millions of their fellow man, when they get nothing but a few crumbs from their tables.
Who's enslaved and being fed crumbs?
No one in a western, capitalist country.
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Location : Texas
Re: Democrats Are Being Outmaneuvered
by veya_victaous Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:15 am
Well the fact the poor in the USA are sold food that's illegal to sell to dogs down here.... I'd say many in the USA.
How many food servers rely on charity?
How many work 40 hours yet get paid barely enough to survive?
How many can only afford cheap processed food made out of the scraps of real food and live lives nutrient deprived?
How many Can't afford Medicine?
how many question whether they are sick enough to cover the expense of a health check up?
let alone questions like...
How many were killed for Iraqi oil?
Like Many people in Civilized Democracies, I'd consider a reasonable portion of the US population 'enslaved', treated like animals, merely irrelevant replaceable cogs for the wealth generating mechanism of those Rich enough to corrupt the social system.
How many food servers rely on charity?
How many work 40 hours yet get paid barely enough to survive?
How many can only afford cheap processed food made out of the scraps of real food and live lives nutrient deprived?
How many Can't afford Medicine?
how many question whether they are sick enough to cover the expense of a health check up?
let alone questions like...
How many were killed for Iraqi oil?
Like Many people in Civilized Democracies, I'd consider a reasonable portion of the US population 'enslaved', treated like animals, merely irrelevant replaceable cogs for the wealth generating mechanism of those Rich enough to corrupt the social system.
veya_victaous- The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo
- Posts : 19114
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 41
Location : Australia
Re: Democrats Are Being Outmaneuvered
by Maddog Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:16 am
veya_victaous wrote:Well the fact the poor in the USA are sold food that's illegal to sell to dogs down here.... I'd say many in the USA.
How many food servers rely on charity?
How many work 40 hours yet get paid barely enough to survive?
How many can only afford cheap processed food made out of the scraps of real food and live lives nutrient deprived?
How many Can't afford Medicine?
how many question whether they are sick enough to cover the expense of a health check up?
let alone questions like...
How many were killed for Iraqi oil?
Like Many people in Civilized Democracies, I'd consider a reasonable portion of the US population 'enslaved', treated like animals, merely irrelevant replaceable cogs for the wealth generating mechanism of those Rich enough to corrupt the social system.
12, I counted them.
Have you ever been here?
Maddog- The newsfix Queen
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Re: Democrats Are Being Outmaneuvered
by veya_victaous Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:32 am
DO I need to have been in Ancient Rome to know they had Slaves?
the US economy has always functioned on the back of Slave Labour, just the slavers decided to give them a few bucks, because it is cheaper than feeding and clothing their slaves.
Even when the US workers started to get rights and demand a fair wage for their labour, all the US rich did was shift their operations to nations that would let them have factory slaves again.
the US economy has always functioned on the back of Slave Labour, just the slavers decided to give them a few bucks, because it is cheaper than feeding and clothing their slaves.
Even when the US workers started to get rights and demand a fair wage for their labour, all the US rich did was shift their operations to nations that would let them have factory slaves again.
veya_victaous- The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo
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Location : Australia
Re: Democrats Are Being Outmaneuvered
by Guest Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:47 am
veya_victaous wrote:Didge wrote:
#
You never answered many of my points, you simple ignored them.
So I am right this is clearly based on envy and hate.
A hate of people successful and have no idea why you and Quill continue to bang on about Trump. As if he is the standard for all successful people
The reality is this, and again what do you give to others based relatively from your wages?
There is no need for a conlict and belief around wealth. As seen its based on envy.
You cant place all problems on the rich, due to the incompetenace of countless Governements
You cant also expect the rich to constantly bail everyone out. Its hardly equality is it?
the rich are rich because of the incompetence of Gov't.
No one has a right to be rich, Inheritance is not an Innate natural concept
all are creations of men to monopolise wealth and power going all the way back to ancient Greece and probably even before that.
Cause Trump is the example of everything wrong with accepting the bullshit that is inherited wealth and equating wealth to success.
And I never needed to answer all your points cause I answer the bolded one.
the reason is "it is the nature of the beast called man" you may as well ask why the world turns
If all are Born with equal right to existence why must the poor pay a higher price than the rich?
why must thousands be forced to grind their lives away to increase the wealth of the few?
Under the policy of 'the least harm to the least amount of individuals' it is only fair for society to 'consume' the 10 wealthiest over the million poorest
The rich are rich, because they are very sucessuful
Everyone has a right to be rich. To say they are cannot is completely absurd.
Who made you the judge to make outy that now being rich is a crime?
Its not.
So basically you prove my point, you place Trump as an example and ignore countless people who have worked their way up and been sucessful.
So you admit you never answered them.
Which translates as you are unable to
Who says the poor pay a higher price?
Is the loss of life far more in value than money?
Which can happen to anyone
There is no reason why in the west where we have education, that people cannot better their lives.
Its in their hands to succeed or fail.
That means they are responsible for their actions.
The rich are not responsible for that
Guest- Guest
Re: Democrats Are Being Outmaneuvered
by veya_victaous Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:55 am
See you equate Success with Wealth, which is the problem.
most of the very wealthy inherited their wealth, as individuals how are they successful Except via virtue of birth? I though we were over hereditary monarchs and nobles?
and the poor are not responsible for that either, and less have to suffer if you take the rich. So you propose the Majority Suffer for the Benefit of the Few?
Of course I never answered the Irrelevant points, READ!!!
the Rich have no right to expect to stay rich. they are only rich cause the 'rules as they stand' so if the rules change and they become poor so be it, it's as just as them having the wealth before. since it is all arbitrary creations of society, society can choose to change it.
most of the very wealthy inherited their wealth, as individuals how are they successful Except via virtue of birth? I though we were over hereditary monarchs and nobles?
and the poor are not responsible for that either, and less have to suffer if you take the rich. So you propose the Majority Suffer for the Benefit of the Few?
Of course I never answered the Irrelevant points, READ!!!
the Rich have no right to expect to stay rich. they are only rich cause the 'rules as they stand' so if the rules change and they become poor so be it, it's as just as them having the wealth before. since it is all arbitrary creations of society, society can choose to change it.
veya_victaous- The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo
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Re: Democrats Are Being Outmaneuvered
by Guest Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:59 am
veya_victaous wrote:See you equate Success with Wealth, which is the problem.
most of the very wealthy inherited their wealth, as individuals how are they successful Except via virtue of birth? I though we were over hereditary monarchs and nobles?
and the poor are not responsible for that either, and less have to suffer if you take the rich. So you propose the Majority Suffer for the Benefit of the Few?
Of course I never answered the Irrelevant points, READ!!!
the Rich have no right to expect to stay rich. they are only rich cause the 'rules as they stand' so if the rules change and they become poor so be it, it's as just as them having the wealth before. since it is all arbitrary creations of society, society can choose to change it.
It is a sign of success.
So that is not a problem.
No, most of the wealthy, made their money.
Which is an irrelevant point, as you still have to maintain that level of money.
The poor are responsible for their lives, when they have been educated.
I came from poverty and like all my siblings worked our way to having a better quality of life.
Hence its a piss poor excuse to claim the poor are not responsible.
Yes they bloody well are for how their lives pan out.
Nobody is holding a gun to their head.
Guest- Guest
Re: Democrats Are Being Outmaneuvered
by Maddog Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:01 am
veya_victaous wrote:DO I need to have been in Ancient Rome to know they had Slaves?
the US economy has always functioned on the back of Slave Labour, just the slavers decided to give them a few bucks, because it is cheaper than feeding and clothing their slaves.
Even when the US workers started to get rights and demand a fair wage for their labour, all the US rich did was shift their operations to nations that would let them have factory slaves again.
Ok then.
We're you beat up by an American as a child?
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Re: Democrats Are Being Outmaneuvered
by Maddog Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:05 am
Veya, the person most responsible for your successes and failures stares back at you from the mirror each morning. You, Didge and I are fortunate enough to live in countries where that is true.
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Re: Democrats Are Being Outmaneuvered
by veya_victaous Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:25 am
Maddog wrote:Veya, the person most responsible for your successes and failures stares back at you from the mirror each morning. You, Didge and I are fortunate enough to live in countries where that is true.
that's not really true
I know plenty of people that work harder than me and don't have my success.
Luck plays a huge part, and I could have been luckier IF I had been born into a Rich Family
veya_victaous- The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo
- Posts : 19114
Join date : 2013-01-23
Age : 41
Location : Australia
Re: Democrats Are Being Outmaneuvered
by veya_victaous Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:31 am
Didge wrote:veya_victaous wrote:See you equate Success with Wealth, which is the problem.
most of the very wealthy inherited their wealth, as individuals how are they successful Except via virtue of birth? I though we were over hereditary monarchs and nobles?
and the poor are not responsible for that either, and less have to suffer if you take the rich. So you propose the Majority Suffer for the Benefit of the Few?
Of course I never answered the Irrelevant points, READ!!!
the Rich have no right to expect to stay rich. they are only rich cause the 'rules as they stand' so if the rules change and they become poor so be it, it's as just as them having the wealth before. since it is all arbitrary creations of society, society can choose to change it.
It is a sign of success.
So that is not a problem.
No, most of the wealthy, made their money.
Which is an irrelevant point, as you still have to maintain that level of money.
The poor are responsible for their lives, when they have been educated.
I came from poverty and like all my siblings worked our way to having a better quality of life.
Hence its a piss poor excuse to claim the poor are not responsible.
Yes they bloody well are for how their lives pan out.
Nobody is holding a gun to their head.
Most rich INHERITED their wealth
Or At least inherited enough to be able to Start Medium sized Business off the bat.
Most people Do not have access to a Few million in interest free loans or gifts to get them started.
Trump as an example has lost 10 time more in bad business venture than you will earn in a life time.
Even the few example of 'self made' billionaires (Gate, Musk, Zuckerberg) Most still came from Families that could afford the best Universities for them, in the USA where such things are expensive to keep the poor riff-raff out.
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Age : 41
Location : Australia
Re: Democrats Are Being Outmaneuvered
by Maddog Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:49 am
veya_victaous wrote:Maddog wrote:Veya, the person most responsible for your successes and failures stares back at you from the mirror each morning. You, Didge and I are fortunate enough to live in countries where that is true.
that's not really true
I know plenty of people that work harder than me and don't have my success.
Luck plays a huge part, and I could have been luckier IF I had been born into a Rich Family
Personality and other traits come into play. Not just hard work.
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Page 2 of 2 • 1, 2
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