The Tories have voted that animals can't feel pain as part of the EU bill, marking the beginning of our anti-science Brexit

The Tory Government has outdone itself when it comes to neglecting animal rights this week – by voting that all animals (apart from humans, of course) have no emotions or feelings, including the ability to feel pain.

Remember all that campaigning against the badger cull and May’s attempt to bring back fox-hunting? It was probably all a waste. As the Government begins to shape the EU (Withdrawal) Bill, it has taken a vote to scrap EU legislation that sees non-human animals as sentient beings. Once we leave the EU in 2019, it’s not only badgers and foxes that will be threatened by this change in law, but all animals that aren’t pets. So basically all animals that it will be profitable to exploit.

This vote comes in contrast to extensive scientific evidence that shows that other animals do have feelings and emotions, some even stronger than ours.

But politicians clearly think that they know better about animal brains than the majority of scientists on the planet. This complete lack of logic leads me to believe that many of our MPs probably have less intelligence than a jellyfish. But unfortunately I don’t have any stake in Parliament to vote through my personal opinions, unlike those MPs.

Realistically though, who would be surprised by this new vote? Despite Michael Gove’s calls to improve animal welfare standards post-Brexit, we all know the Government, and in fact most of the UK public, doesn’t really care about animals unless they’re cute and fluffy.

Vintage wrote:Well I don't know who to vote for. I increasingly don't like the Tories, I can't abide Labour, especially with Corbyn the terrorists best buddy, MacDonald the same, Diane Abbott the arrogant racist. The Liberals should be my party but they are as bad as the other two. I would vote for someone who encourages decent capitalism that actually cares for their workers after all its the workers that make the wealth for the owners, and decent paid workers spend more good for the economy but also looks after the basics in life directly - education/health/electricity/gas/water.
I can only dream of such a thing though.

Cass wrote:

gelico wrote:


socialism has killed how many?

it's evil

that doesn't mean i disagree as such with NHS and welfare but socialist government is basically theft

And capitalism is about to kill a heck of a lot more Americans if this tax bill goes through by taking away affordable healthcare from more than 13 million people as well as adding $1.7 trillion to the national debt over 10 years.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

gelico wrote:


socialism has killed how many?

it's evil

that doesn't mean i disagree as such with NHS and welfare but socialist government is basically theft

you stupid brainless twat...

Gelli-belly racist twat..

Anti-worker, anti-democracy, racist and fascist turds like you are far more "evil" in the long run...

gelico wrote:

Cass wrote:

And capitalism is about to kill a heck of a lot more Americans if this tax bill goes through by taking away affordable healthcare from more than 13 million people as well as adding $1.7 trillion to the national debt over 10 years.

hey cass

but capitalism provides you with everything you have from furniture to iphones

socialism has proven to fail time and again.  it provides no incentive, no ambition, no drive to strive, no trade, it tries desperately to make everyone equal but that's a total failure

human beings are different in so many ways - it isnt realistic to expect everyone to be equal

Cass wrote:

gelico wrote:

hey cass

but capitalism provides you with everything you have from furniture to iphones

socialism has proven to fail time and again.  it provides no incentive, no ambition, no drive to strive, no trade, it tries desperately to make everyone equal but that's a total failure

human beings are different in so many ways - it isnt realistic to expect everyone to be equal

Morning lady. I should be hoovering, but you’re more interesting!

No that would be a company that provides merchandise, not a political beliefs system. And I dont believe they don’t outlaw owning them in countries with socialist
governments.

Apart from the NHS, do you use libraries, the roads, schools, the police among other things? Expect to get a pension? If so, you are seeing socialism at work.

I’d rather strive to make things equal for everybody than have a master/servant type of society. Will it be perfect? Absolutely not. No system is.

Cass wrote:

gelico wrote:

hey cass

but capitalism provides you with everything you have from furniture to iphones

socialism has proven to fail time and again.  it provides no incentive, no ambition, no drive to strive, no trade, it tries desperately to make everyone equal but that's a total failure

human beings are different in so many ways - it isnt realistic to expect everyone to be equal

Morning lady. I should be hoovering, but you’re more interesting!

No that would be a company that provides merchandise, not a political beliefs system. And I dont believe they don’t outlaw owning them in countries with socialist
governments.

Apart from the NHS, do you use libraries, the roads, schools, the police among other things? Expect to get a pension? If so, you are seeing socialism at work.

I’d rather strive to make things equal for everybody than have a master/servant type of society. Will it be perfect? Absolutely not. No system is.

gelico wrote:

Cass wrote:

And capitalism is about to kill a heck of a lot more Americans if this tax bill goes through by taking away affordable healthcare from more than 13 million people as well as adding $1.7 trillion to the national debt over 10 years.

Capitalism needs workers, preferably.paying them as little as possible. They have absolutely no incentive to raise people up, because they don't want them questioning the status quo and demand more.


hey cass

but capitalism provides you with everything you have from furniture to iphones

socialism has proven to fail time and again.  it provides no incentive, no ambition, no drive to strive, no trade, it tries desperately to make everyone equal but that's a total failure

human beings are different in so many ways - it isnt realistic to expect everyone to be equal

gelico wrote:

Cass wrote:

And capitalism is about to kill a heck of a lot more Americans if this tax bill goes through by taking away affordable healthcare from more than 13 million people as well as adding $1.7 trillion to the national debt over 10 years.

hey cass

but capitalism provides you with everything you have from furniture to iphones

socialism has proven to fail time and again.  it provides no incentive, no ambition, no drive to strive, no trade, it tries desperately to make everyone equal but that's a total failure

human beings are different in so many ways - it isnt realistic to expect everyone to be equal

gelico wrote:
Capitalism needs workers, preferably.paying them as little as possible. They have absolutely no incentive to raise people up, because they don't want them questioning the status quo and demand more.

that isn't true.  some people want to raise up and some dont

when i worked for ASDA years ago i passed the necessary criteria to go on a management course.  unfortunately it never happened as i had to leave cos of issues at home, but i would have gone on that course.

the criteria was, never missing a shift, never being late, never having a till shortage, and never having a warning over anything.  as i wanted to rise that was incentive for me to do a damn good job and make sure i passed all the criteria and so i did.

a friend of mine worked at the same place and i asked her why she didn;t do it ''oh no'' said my friend  ''i cant be bothered with all that management stuff, i just want to come in do my little shift and go home again'' so she didnt even want to do any better - there was no desire there.

anyone can better themselves and gain better finances for themselves.  especially today with  internet access what it is there is no excuse for anyone to say ''the system is against me, i cant get on'' blah blah blah

but where is the incentive to get yourself more money if the government comes along and just takes it ''to make everyone equal''  

why do people think they have an automatic right to everything?

healthcare, education is not a natural right it's a privilege imo - that's one reason why they get so abused,,,,no one actually appreciates what they have

socialism does not raise poor people up.  it kills incentive and drags slightly richer people down is all

Cass wrote:

gelico wrote:

hey cass

but capitalism provides you with everything you have from furniture to iphones

socialism has proven to fail time and again.  it provides no incentive, no ambition, no drive to strive, no trade, it tries desperately to make everyone equal but that's a total failure

human beings are different in so many ways - it isnt realistic to expect everyone to be equal

Morning lady. I should be hoovering, but you’re more interesting!

No that would be a company that provides merchandise, not a political beliefs system. And I dont believe they don’t outlaw owning them in countries with socialist
governments.

gelico wrote:
Capitalism needs workers, preferably.paying them as little as possible. They have absolutely no incentive to raise people up, because they don't want them questioning the status quo and demand more.

that isn't true.  some people want to raise up and some dont

when i worked for ASDA years ago i passed the necessary criteria to go on a management course.  unfortunately it never happened as i had to leave cos of issues at home, but i would have gone on that course.

the criteria was, never missing a shift, never being late, never having a till shortage, and never having a warning over anything.  as i wanted to rise that was incentive for me to do a damn good job and make sure i passed all the criteria and so i did.

a friend of mine worked at the same place and i asked her why she didn;t do it ''oh no'' said my friend  ''i cant be bothered with all that management stuff, i just want to come in do my little shift and go home again'' so she didnt even want to do any better - there was no desire there.

anyone can better themselves and gain better finances for themselves.  especially today with  internet access what it is there is no excuse for anyone to say ''the system is against me, i cant get on'' blah blah blah

but where is the incentive to get yourself more money if the government comes along and just takes it ''to make everyone equal''  

why do people think they have an automatic right to everything?

healthcare, education is not a natural right it's a privilege imo - that's one reason why they get so abused,,,,no one actually appreciates what they have

socialism does not raise poor people up.  it kills incentive and drags slightly richer people down is all

sassy wrote:

gelico wrote:
Capitalism needs workers, preferably.paying them as little as possible. They have absolutely no incentive to raise people up, because they don't want them questioning the status quo and demand more.

that isn't true.  some people want to raise up and some dont

when i worked for ASDA years ago i passed the necessary criteria to go on a management course.  unfortunately it never happened as i had to leave cos of issues at home, but i would have gone on that course.

the criteria was, never missing a shift, never being late, never having a till shortage, and never having a warning over anything.  as i wanted to rise that was incentive for me to do a damn good job and make sure i passed all the criteria and so i did.

a friend of mine worked at the same place and i asked her why she didn;t do it ''oh no'' said my friend  ''i cant be bothered with all that management stuff, i just want to come in do my little shift and go home again'' so she didnt even want to do any better - there was no desire there.

anyone can better themselves and gain better finances for themselves.  especially today with  internet access what it is there is no excuse for anyone to say ''the system is against me, i cant get on'' blah blah blah

but where is the incentive to get yourself more money if the government comes along and just takes it ''to make everyone equal''  

why do people think they have an automatic right to everything?

healthcare, education is not a natural right it's a privilege imo - that's one reason why they get so abused,,,,no one actually appreciates what they have

socialism does not raise poor people up.  it kills incentive and drags slightly richer people down is all

I suggest you try living without them, as many do in America.   Was watching a lady the other day saying how her medical insurance willl no long pay for her treatment as she is 'over the limit' so she was going home to literally, die.  Her doctor was incensed but could do nothing and that's an everyday occurance there now.   You want that for us?  Because that's the way it's going.   You don't think your children and their children has a right to education?   I am truly appalled.

As for the rest, I'm struggling to understand why you think that has anything to do with capitalism.   Dictionary definition:  an economic, political, and social system in which property, business, and industry are privately owned, directed towards making the greatest possible profits for successful organizations and people.

So basically you think that the sick, disabled etc are not worth as much as human beings as those who make money?  They have nothing to contribute, they might as well be put down?  Good grief.

gelico wrote:
Capitalism needs workers, preferably.paying them as little as possible. They have absolutely no incentive to raise people up, because they don't want them questioning the status quo and demand more.

that isn't true.  some people want to raise up and some dont

when i worked for ASDA years ago i passed the necessary criteria to go on a management course.  unfortunately it never happened as i had to leave cos of issues at home, but i would have gone on that course.

the criteria was, never missing a shift, never being late, never having a till shortage, and never having a warning over anything.  as i wanted to rise that was incentive for me to do a damn good job and make sure i passed all the criteria and so i did.

a friend of mine worked at the same place and i asked her why she didn;t do it ''oh no'' said my friend  ''i cant be bothered with all that management stuff, i just want to come in do my little shift and go home again'' so she didnt even want to do any better - there was no desire there.

anyone can better themselves and gain better finances for themselves.  especially today with  internet access what it is there is no excuse for anyone to say ''the system is against me, i cant get on'' blah blah blah

but where is the incentive to get yourself more money if the government comes along and just takes it ''to make everyone equal''  

why do people think they have an automatic right to everything?

healthcare, education is not a natural right it's a privilege imo - that's one reason why they get so abused,,,,no one actually appreciates what they have

socialism does not raise poor people up.  it kills incentive and drags slightly richer people down is all

HoratioTarr wrote:

gelico wrote:
Capitalism needs workers, preferably.paying them as little as possible. They have absolutely no incentive to raise people up, because they don't want them questioning the status quo and demand more.

that isn't true.  some people want to raise up and some dont

when i worked for ASDA years ago i passed the necessary criteria to go on a management course.  unfortunately it never happened as i had to leave cos of issues at home, but i would have gone on that course.

the criteria was, never missing a shift, never being late, never having a till shortage, and never having a warning over anything.  as i wanted to rise that was incentive for me to do a damn good job and make sure i passed all the criteria and so i did.

a friend of mine worked at the same place and i asked her why she didn;t do it ''oh no'' said my friend  ''i cant be bothered with all that management stuff, i just want to come in do my little shift and go home again'' so she didnt even want to do any better - there was no desire there.

anyone can better themselves and gain better finances for themselves.  especially today with  internet access what it is there is no excuse for anyone to say ''the system is against me, i cant get on'' blah blah blah

but where is the incentive to get yourself more money if the government comes along and just takes it ''to make everyone equal''  

why do people think they have an automatic right to everything?

healthcare, education is not a natural right it's a privilege imo - that's one reason why they get so abused,,,,no one actually appreciates what they have

socialism does not raise poor people up.  it kills incentive and drags slightly richer people down is all

Hitler was a 'socialist' wasn't he?

The world's gone fucking mad, IMO.   We have a whole generation who've never really known true hardship.   They think not having a mobile phone or an internet connection is the end of the world.   The latest trend is screeching from the rafters if we don't all adhere to not calling boys and girls, boys and girls.   

My husband's grandfather died in a Lancaster bomber at age 32.    His father died in the WW1, shot through the head at 24.   There was no social security back then.   You lived by the skin of your arse and the kids got what you could give them, never mind weeping salty tears that they didn't get a £400 Playstation for Christmas!

I've lived hand to mouth as I'm sure many of us have on here, and I've known grinding poverty.  That's why I've got no patience with young people these days who bemoan their lot when in reality they're much better off than we were at the same age.   

But you're right, anyone can better themselves these days.   You can do it without even leaving your house.

HoratioTarr wrote:

gelico wrote:
Capitalism needs workers, preferably.paying them as little as possible. They have absolutely no incentive to raise people up, because they don't want them questioning the status quo and demand more.

that isn't true.  some people want to raise up and some dont

when i worked for ASDA years ago i passed the necessary criteria to go on a management course.  unfortunately it never happened as i had to leave cos of issues at home, but i would have gone on that course.

the criteria was, never missing a shift, never being late, never having a till shortage, and never having a warning over anything.  as i wanted to rise that was incentive for me to do a damn good job and make sure i passed all the criteria and so i did.

a friend of mine worked at the same place and i asked her why she didn;t do it ''oh no'' said my friend  ''i cant be bothered with all that management stuff, i just want to come in do my little shift and go home again'' so she didnt even want to do any better - there was no desire there.

anyone can better themselves and gain better finances for themselves.  especially today with  internet access what it is there is no excuse for anyone to say ''the system is against me, i cant get on'' blah blah blah

but where is the incentive to get yourself more money if the government comes along and just takes it ''to make everyone equal''  

why do people think they have an automatic right to everything?

healthcare, education is not a natural right it's a privilege imo - that's one reason why they get so abused,,,,no one actually appreciates what they have

socialism does not raise poor people up.  it kills incentive and drags slightly richer people down is all

Hitler was a 'socialist' wasn't he?

The world's gone fucking mad, IMO.   We have a whole generation who've never really known true hardship.   They think not having a mobile phone or an internet connection is the end of the world.   The latest trend is screeching from the rafters if we don't all adhere to not calling boys and girls, boys and girls.   

My husband's grandfather died in a Lancaster bomber at age 32.    His father died in the WW1, shot through the head at 24.   There was no social security back then.   You lived by the skin of your arse and the kids got what you could give them, never mind weeping salty tears that they didn't get a £400 Playstation for Christmas!

I've lived hand to mouth as I'm sure many of us have on here, and I've known grinding poverty.  That's why I've got no patience with young people these days who bemoan their lot when in reality they're much better off than we were at the same age.   

But you're right, anyone can better themselves these days.   You can do it without even leaving your house.

nicko wrote:Socialists love to spend money,     as long as it's other peoples !

sassy wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:


Hitler was a 'socialist' wasn't he?

The world's gone fucking mad, IMO.   We have a whole generation who've never really known true hardship.   They think not having a mobile phone or an internet connection is the end of the world.   The latest trend is screeching from the rafters if we don't all adhere to not calling boys and girls, boys and girls.   

My husband's grandfather died in a Lancaster bomber at age 32.    His father died in the WW1, shot through the head at 24.   There was no social security back then.   You lived by the skin of your arse and the kids got what you could give them, never mind weeping salty tears that they didn't get a £400 Playstation for Christmas!

I've lived hand to mouth as I'm sure many of us have on here, and I've known grinding poverty.  That's why I've got no patience with young people these days who bemoan their lot when in reality they're much better off than we were at the same age.   

But you're right, anyone can better themselves these days.   You can do it without even leaving your house.

.


PS Kids are NOT better off, did you have to pay for Uni etc.   No you didn't, you didn't get landed with £60,000 debt before you even started and I bet nobody on here did.  

sassy wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:


Hitler was a 'socialist' wasn't he?

The world's gone fucking mad, IMO.   We have a whole generation who've never really known true hardship.   They think not having a mobile phone or an internet connection is the end of the world.   The latest trend is screeching from the rafters if we don't all adhere to not calling boys and girls, boys and girls.   

My husband's grandfather died in a Lancaster bomber at age 32.    His father died in the WW1, shot through the head at 24.   There was no social security back then.   You lived by the skin of your arse and the kids got what you could give them, never mind weeping salty tears that they didn't get a £400 Playstation for Christmas!

I've lived hand to mouth as I'm sure many of us have on here, and I've known grinding poverty.  That's why I've got no patience with young people these days who bemoan their lot when in reality they're much better off than we were at the same age.   

But you're right, anyone can better themselves these days.   You can do it without even leaving your house.

OMGG!!!   No Hitler was not a socialist.  https://www.snopes.com/2017/09/05/were-nazis-socialists/





Someone who served in WWII, my mate Harry, had his sister die before the war because they couldn't afford a doctor, and is spending his days fighting for social justice, because he knows what it is really like under uncaring capitalism.    

My Dad flew Lancs and watched his friends die and my grandad was in the WWI and had his twin blown up beside him and they are some of the reasons I'm fighting to stop the world going backwards instead of forwards, because it ain't pretty and it ain't nice.


PS Kids are NOT better off, did you have to pay for Uni etc.   No you didn't, you didn't get landed with £60,000 debt before you even started and I bet nobody on here did.  

Cass wrote:There are pros and cons to all systems. You will always have people who try and play whatever system is in place. That’s because we are humans and not robots. There is such thing as Utopia or a perfect society.

But i’d rather know that a system is in place in case a fellow human needs assistance or that one day I may do.

sassy wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:


Hitler was a 'socialist' wasn't he?

The world's gone fucking mad, IMO.   We have a whole generation who've never really known true hardship.   They think not having a mobile phone or an internet connection is the end of the world.   The latest trend is screeching from the rafters if we don't all adhere to not calling boys and girls, boys and girls.   

My husband's grandfather died in a Lancaster bomber at age 32.    His father died in the WW1, shot through the head at 24.   There was no social security back then.   You lived by the skin of your arse and the kids got what you could give them, never mind weeping salty tears that they didn't get a £400 Playstation for Christmas!

I've lived hand to mouth as I'm sure many of us have on here, and I've known grinding poverty.  That's why I've got no patience with young people these days who bemoan their lot when in reality they're much better off than we were at the same age.   

But you're right, anyone can better themselves these days.   You can do it without even leaving your house.

OMGG!!!   No Hitler was not a socialist.  https://www.snopes.com/2017/09/05/were-nazis-socialists/





Someone who served in WWII, my mate Harry, had his sister die before the war because they couldn't afford a doctor, and is spending his days fighting for social justice, because he knows what it is really like under uncaring capitalism.    

My Dad flew Lancs and watched his friends die and my grandad was in the WWI and had his twin blown up beside him and they are some of the reasons I'm fighting to stop the world going backwards instead of forwards, because it ain't pretty and it ain't nice.


PS Kids are NOT better off, did you have to pay for Uni etc.   No you didn't, you didn't get landed with £60,000 debt before you even started and I bet nobody on here did.  

Syl wrote:

sassy wrote:


OMGG!!!   No Hitler was not a socialist.  https://www.snopes.com/2017/09/05/were-nazis-socialists/





Someone who served in WWII, my mate Harry, had his sister die before the war because they couldn't afford a doctor, and is spending his days fighting for social justice, because he knows what it is really like under uncaring capitalism.    

My Dad flew Lancs and watched his friends die and my grandad was in the WWI and had his twin blown up beside him and they are some of the reasons I'm fighting to stop the world going backwards instead of forwards, because it ain't pretty and it ain't nice.


PS Kids are NOT better off, did you have to pay for Uni etc.   No you didn't, you didn't get landed with £60,000 debt before you even started and I bet nobody on here did.  

Sassy, back in my day working class kids certainly didn't get landed with a uni debt because they had NO CHANCE of even getting to university.
Brains, intellect and ambition did not come into it....where I grew up in Salford the majority of kids had to find full time work as soon as they left school at 15 in order to contribute to the household bills.
The days where kids had the opportunity to study till they were in their mid 20's had not yet arrived.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:

Sassy, back in my day working class kids certainly didn't get landed with a uni debt because they had NO CHANCE of even getting to university.
Brains, intellect and ambition did not come into it....where I grew up in Salford the majority of kids had to find full time work as soon as they left school at 15 in order to contribute to the household bills.
The days where kids had the opportunity to study till they were in their mid 20's had not yet arrived.

Ah, you took the words out of my mouth.    Most kids left school and had to work.    Most working class kids went into apprenticeships and they were the lucky ones.

The other thing is that you can't guarantee a job just because you've gone to uni.   More than half of British graduates end up working in jobs that don't require a degree.

The research for the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development showed that 58.8 per cent of UK graduates have ended up in non-graduate jobs, and around one in 12 of those working in low skilled jobs, such as in coffee shops, bars, call centres and at hospitality events, are now graduates.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/11811928/University-was-never-meant-to-be-for-everybody.-Young-people-have-been-sold-a-lie.html

sassy wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:


Ah, you took the words out of my mouth.    Most kids left school and had to work.    Most working class kids went into apprenticeships and they were the lucky ones.

The other thing is that you can't guarantee a job just because you've gone to uni.   More than half of British graduates end up working in jobs that don't require a degree.

The research for the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development showed that 58.8 per cent of UK graduates have ended up in non-graduate jobs, and around one in 12 of those working in low skilled jobs, such as in coffee shops, bars, call centres and at hospitality events, are now graduates.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/11811928/University-was-never-meant-to-be-for-everybody.-Young-people-have-been-sold-a-lie.html

I think you have just shown why capitalism doesn't work and how striving does not mean you get a better life under it.

sassy wrote:

gelico wrote:
Capitalism needs workers, preferably.paying them as little as possible. They have absolutely no incentive to raise people up, because they don't want them questioning the status quo and demand more.

that isn't true.  some people want to raise up and some dont

when i worked for ASDA years ago i passed the necessary criteria to go on a management course.  unfortunately it never happened as i had to leave cos of issues at home, but i would have gone on that course.

the criteria was, never missing a shift, never being late, never having a till shortage, and never having a warning over anything.  as i wanted to rise that was incentive for me to do a damn good job and make sure i passed all the criteria and so i did.

a friend of mine worked at the same place and i asked her why she didn;t do it ''oh no'' said my friend  ''i cant be bothered with all that management stuff, i just want to come in do my little shift and go home again'' so she didnt even want to do any better - there was no desire there.

anyone can better themselves and gain better finances for themselves.  especially today with  internet access what it is there is no excuse for anyone to say ''the system is against me, i cant get on'' blah blah blah

but where is the incentive to get yourself more money if the government comes along and just takes it ''to make everyone equal''  

why do people think they have an automatic right to everything?

healthcare, education is not a natural right it's a privilege imo - that's one reason why they get so abused,,,,no one actually appreciates what they have

socialism does not raise poor people up.  it kills incentive and drags slightly richer people down is all

As for the rest, I'm struggling to understand why you think that has anything to do with capitalism.   Dictionary definition:  an economic, political, and social system in which property, business, and industry are privately owned, directed towards making the greatest possible profits for successful organizations and people.


exactly - so for the person who i mentioned before who starts off selling lemonade on the street and after working like a nutter he progresses to a cafe and then works even harder to have a chain of them is wrong? hard graft and incentive is what makes you successful. why would this person bother if the government then come along and say ''right well WE DECIDE how much you should have so anything over and above a certain amount that you make, we will tax you at 95% on. how on earth is that fair?

So basically you think that the sick, disabled etc are not worth as much as human beings as those who make money?  They have nothing to contribute, they might as well be put down?  Good grief.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

gelico wrote:

sassy wrote:What utter tosh!   You ever gone out doorstopping for elections?   I have and can tell you for quite some time all we have heard from working class people is 'Thank God we have a really socialist at the top now who believes in what we believe in and has done for over 30 years, it's nice to know he can't be bought or swayed by money or influence'.   That's why Labour has more members that all the other parties put together, that's why there was such a huge swing in the election.   The 'Tory Lite' Blairites have had their day, real social democratic policies again.   As for the 'likeablity factor', have we come so low in politics and swayed by the media so much, that 'likeablity' is even a factor.   You think good leaders have to be 'likeable'!   The best leaders we have had are probably Churchill (who is my opinion was a disgusting man) and Attlee, who was the most mundane, beige man possible.   What we need in politics is someone who sticks to their guns, wants real help and equality for all, not just those who already have far too much, who can't be bought off.   He's never claimed for a second house, his expenses are the lowest in the HOC and he has stayed to true to everything as long as he has been there and, apart from Dennis Skinner, I can't think of another MP who can say that..

socialism has killed how many?

it's evil

that doesn't mean i disagree as such with NHS and welfare but socialist government is basically theft

Socialism hasn't "killed" anybody, you stupid brainless twat...

Socialim  is an economic system;  not a political party,  nor a living entity..

Socialism is neither "evil" nor "good", in and of itself..

Economic theories and principles didn't wantonly kill people  ==  it took people to kill people in the name of political idealogies.


Then again, you aren't intelligent enough, let alone either experienced or educated enough, as to know the difference, Gelli-belly racist twat..

Anti-worker, anti-democracy, racist and fascist turds like you are far more "evil" in the long run...

nicko wrote:Have you seen Sassy's forum lately?  Andy and herself are almost the only posters.  She drove the rest away with her stupid socialist ideas. She closes down all the forums she posts on unless mods, such as Vic take a hard line with her.    Years ago she would have been burnt at the stake !  

nicko wrote:Have you seen Sassy's forum lately?  Andy and herself are almost the only posters.  She drove the rest away with her stupid socialist ideas. She closes down all the forums she posts on unless mods, such as Vic take a hard line with her.    Years ago she would have been burnt at the stake !  

sassy wrote:

nicko wrote:Have you seen Sassy's forum lately?  Andy and herself are almost the only posters.  She drove the rest away with her stupid socialist ideas. She closes down all the forums she posts on unless mods, such as Vic take a hard line with her.    Years ago she would have been burnt at the stake !  

You Nicko, are a first class geranium.  The reason for few posts on the forum is the fact that Irn is very, very ill and I haven't had the heart to do anything without him.  He managed a few posts the other day.   As ill as he is, he still makes more sense and has more intelligence than you will ever have.

I've never closed down a forum in my life and the only reason I will close ES is if something happens to Irn.   Go and wipe your bum, you have been talking out of it again.

gelico wrote:so for the person who i mentioned before who starts off selling lemonade on the street and after working like a nutter he progresses to a cafe and then works even harder to have a chain of them is wrong? hard graft and incentive is what makes you successful. why would this person bother if the government then come along and say ''right well WE DECIDE how much you should have so anything over and above a certain amount that you make, we will tax you at 95% on. how on earth is that fair?

is anyone going to address this?

so many successful companies started off as an idea and then put into practice in a small way which then grew.  this was due to many many hours, weeks, months and years of hard slog, setbacks, determination and much sacrifice in order to achieve that success.  it doesnt happen overnight via the capitalist fairy.

so taking that into account, why shouldn;t the bosses who have made that possible and provided much employment into the bargain then get to enjoy the fruits of their labour?

why is that so evil and wrong

i think it's evil and wrong for people to achieve all that and then have some government say, ''well done, we're having that, thank you''

wtf?

sassy wrote:Capitalism is theft, it takes from the poor to give to the rich.  And Labour are Democratic Socialists, which means all the things you agree with, without them ordinary people would have fuck all.  As I'm on my phone, can't put on links, but look up the difference between pure socialism and democratic socialism.  As it says on my membership card, labour a democratic socialist party.  The big thing Corbyn believes in is returning power and influence to ordinary people, which is why he makes sure we get a say in everything.  At the moment we have been run by the elite for the elite, to make money for the elite and sod everyone else.  I honestly cannot understand why anyone who is not a millionaire would vote for anything else.  Voting for any of the other parties is like deliberately punishing yourself and destroying your children's future.   masochistic in the extreme.

Ps it wasn't the socialism that killed people, it was the despots that took over the governments and became tyrants.  

gelico wrote:so for the person who i mentioned before who starts off selling lemonade on the street and after working like a nutter he progresses to a cafe and then works even harder to have a chain of them is wrong? hard graft and incentive is what makes you successful. why would this person bother if the government then come along and say ''right well WE DECIDE how much you should have so anything over and above a certain amount that you make, we will tax you at 95% on. how on earth is that fair?

is anyone going to address this?

so many successful companies started off as an idea and then put into practice in a small way which then grew.  this was due to many many hours, weeks, months and years of hard slog, setbacks, determination and much sacrifice in order to achieve that success.  it doesnt happen overnight via the capitalist fairy.

so taking that into account, why shouldn;t the bosses who have made that possible and provided much employment into the bargain then get to enjoy the fruits of their labour?

why is that so evil and wrong

i think it's evil and wrong for people to achieve all that and then have some government say, ''well done, we're having that, thank you''

wtf?

sassy wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:


Ah, you took the words out of my mouth.    Most kids left school and had to work.    Most working class kids went into apprenticeships and they were the lucky ones.

The other thing is that you can't guarantee a job just because you've gone to uni.   More than half of British graduates end up working in jobs that don't require a degree.

The research for the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development showed that 58.8 per cent of UK graduates have ended up in non-graduate jobs, and around one in 12 of those working in low skilled jobs, such as in coffee shops, bars, call centres and at hospitality events, are now graduates.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/11811928/University-was-never-meant-to-be-for-everybody.-Young-people-have-been-sold-a-lie.html

I think you have just shown why capitalism doesn't work and how striving does not mean you get a better life under it.

nicko wrote:Ps,  got my result from scan Monday,   Cancer has spread to Bladder, Stomach and Kidneys.   So fuck you, sassy and Eddie !!

nicko wrote:Ps,  got my result from scan Monday,   Cancer has spread to Bladder, Stomach and Kidneys.   So fuck you, sassy and Eddie !!

nicko wrote:Ps,  got my result from scan Monday,   Cancer has spread to Bladder, Stomach and Kidneys.   So fuck you, sassy and Eddie !!

nicko wrote:Ps,  got my result from scan Monday,   Cancer has spread to Bladder, Stomach and Kidneys.   So fuck you, sassy and Eddie !!

smelly-bandit wrote:Oh dear.

Seems some folks are just too gullible.

HoratioTarr wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:Oh dear.

Seems some folks are just too gullible.

Your trolling really is piss poor.   When you first burst in here with so much sardonic promise, I had high hopes...but alas....

Didge wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:


Your trolling really is piss poor.   When you first burst in here with so much sardonic promise, I had high hopes...but alas....

In this instance smelly is correct, as no doubt he has seen me post this.

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t22607-viral-animal-sentience-fake-news-story-seen-by-2-million-people

gelico wrote:

Didge wrote:

In this instance smelly is correct, as no doubt he has seen me post this.

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t22607-viral-animal-sentience-fake-news-story-seen-by-2-million-people

hi didge

i have to say i thought it was so bizarre - i had a friend over last night and was telling him and he said ''i can't see that one being likely, can you?.  i mean, can you imagine question time, or them being interviewed by andrew neil,,,,they would be utterly ripped to pieces over it.  this is wrong info, i guarantee it, it's either a spoof or someone's got their facts wrong''