The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
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The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
L
ike many Coptic Christians in Egypt, Ayman Nabil Labib had a tattoo of the cross on his wrist. And like 17-year-old men everywhere, he could be assertive about his identity. But in 2011, after Egypt's revolution, that kind of assertiveness could mean trouble.
Ayman's Arabic-language teacher told him to cover his tattoo in class. Instead of complying, the young man defiantly pulled out the cross that hung around his neck, making it visible. His teacher flew into a rage and began choking him, goading the young man's Muslim classmates by saying, "What are you going to do with him?"
Ayman's classmates then beat him to death. False statements were given to police, and two boys were taken into custody only after Ayman's terror-stricken family spoke out.
Ayman's suffering is not an isolated case in Egypt or the region.
The Arab Spring, and to a lesser extent the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, were touted as the catalysts for a major historic shift in the region. From Egypt to Syria to Iraq, the Middle East's dictatorships would be succeeded by liberal, democratic regimes. Years later, however, there is very little liberality or democracy to show. Indeed, what these upheavals have bequeathed to history is a baleful, and barely noticed legacy: The near-annihilation of the world's most ancient communities of Christians.
The persecution of Christians throughout the Middle East, as well as the silence with which it has been met in the West, are the subject of journalist Ed West's Kindle Single "The Silence of Our Friends." The booklet is a brisk and chilling litany of horrors: Discriminatory laws, mass graves, unofficial pogroms, and exile. The persecuted are not just Coptic and Nestorian Christians who have relatively few co-communicants in the West, but Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants as well.
Throughout the Middle East the pattern is the same. Christians are murdered in mob violence or by militant groups. Their churches are bombed, their shops destroyed, and their homes looted. Laws are passed making them second-class citizens, and the majority of them eventually leave.
In Egypt, a rumor that a Muslim girl was dating a Christian boy led to the burning of multiple churches, and the imposition of a curfew on a local Christian population. Illiterate children were held in police custody for urinating in a trash heap, because an imam claimed that pages quoting the Koran were in the pile and had been desecrated. Again, the persecution resulted in Christian families leaving their homes behind.
In Syria, the situation is even worse. In June 2013, a cluster of Christian villages was totally destroyed. Friar Pierbattista Pizzaballa reported that "of the 4,000 inhabitants of the village of Ghassanieh... no more than 10 people remain."
Two Syrian bishops have been kidnapped by rebel groups. Militants expelled 90 percent of the Christians in the city of Homs. Patriarch Gregorios III of Antioch says that out of a population of 1.75 million, 450,000 Syrian Christians have simply fled their homes in fear.
In Iraq, the story is the same but more dramatic. According to West, between 2004 and 2011 the population of Chaldo-Assyrian Christians fell from over a million to as few as 150,000. In 2006, Isoh Majeed, who advocated the creation of a safe haven for Christians around Nineveh, was murdered in his home. The number of churches in Iraq has declined to just 57, from 300 before the invasion. The decline of Iraq's Christian population since the first Gulf War is roughly 90 percent, with most of the drop occurring since the 2003 invasion.
The U.S. and the U.K. bear some responsibility in this catastrophe, since they oversaw the creation of Iraq's postwar government and did little to protect minority faiths.
West's book touches on the clueless and callous behavior of Western governments in these episodes. U.S. reconstruction aid to Iraq is distributed according to Iraqi laws that discriminate against Christian Iraqis. The U.S. pours billions of foreign aid into Egypt, and yet the Christians in that country are not allowed to build churches (or even so much as repair toilets in them) without explicit permission from the head of state, almost never granted. Last September, the U.S and Britain attempted to make their support of Syrian rebel groups explicit and overt, but at the same time some of these militias were executing a pogrom against Christians.
A Christian shopkeeper in Ma'loula summed it up in a quote to the BBC: "Tell the EU and the Americans that we sent you Saint Paul 2,000 years ago to take you from the darkness, and you sent us terrorists to kill us."
In an email to The Week, Ed West says there are things America and its allies can and should do to aid persecuted Christians:
Western countries should make clear that our friendship, cooperation, aid, and help depends on: 1) Religious freedom, which includes the right to change or leave religions; 2) A secular law that treats all people the same. That was not the case in Mubarak's Egypt, which the U.S. helped to prop up with $500 million a year. That is not the case in Iraq, which under U.S. control instigated sharia into its constitution. That shouldn't be acceptable. In 2022, Qatar will host the World Cup, a country where death for apostasy is still on the statute books. Why aren't we all boycotting it?
The last request does put the plight of Middle Eastern Christians in global context. Western activists and media have focused considerable outrage at Russia's laws against "homosexual propaganda" in the lead-up to the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics. It would only seem fitting that Westerners would also protest (or at the very least notice) laws that punish people with death for converting to Christianity.
And yet the Western world is largely ignorant of or untroubled by programmatic violence against Christians. Ed West, citing the French philosopher Regis Debray, distils the problem thusly: "The victims are 'too Christian' to excite the Left, and 'too foreign' to excite the Right."
Church leaders outside the Middle East are afraid to speak out, partly because they fear precipitating more violence. (Seven churches were fire-bombed in Iraq after Pope Benedict XVI quoted an ancient criticism of Islam in an academic speech in Germany.) Oddly, unlike Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Russia, the U.S. and the U.K. are the only powers acting in the Middle East that do not take any special interest in the safety of those with whom they have a historical religious affinity.
These are the lands in which Jesus' apostles and their disciples made some of the first Christian converts. In an interview, West pointed out that these communities "were Christian when our ancestors were worshipping trees and stones." Now they are in danger of imminent extinction.
In 2013, Raphael I Sako, the Chaldean Patriarch of Baghdad, said the following at his installation homily, "Still the shadow of fear, anxiety, and death is hanging over our people." He warned: "If emigration continues, God forbid, there will be no more Christians in the Middle East. It will be no more than a distant memory." West's book is a sobering reminder that Western policy has helped shape this grim fate for Middle Eastern Christians — and Western silence allows it to continue.
http://theweek.com/article/index/255403/the-worlds-most-ancient-christian-communities-are-being-destroyed-mdash-and-no-one-cares
ike many Coptic Christians in Egypt, Ayman Nabil Labib had a tattoo of the cross on his wrist. And like 17-year-old men everywhere, he could be assertive about his identity. But in 2011, after Egypt's revolution, that kind of assertiveness could mean trouble.
Ayman's Arabic-language teacher told him to cover his tattoo in class. Instead of complying, the young man defiantly pulled out the cross that hung around his neck, making it visible. His teacher flew into a rage and began choking him, goading the young man's Muslim classmates by saying, "What are you going to do with him?"
Ayman's classmates then beat him to death. False statements were given to police, and two boys were taken into custody only after Ayman's terror-stricken family spoke out.
Ayman's suffering is not an isolated case in Egypt or the region.
The Arab Spring, and to a lesser extent the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, were touted as the catalysts for a major historic shift in the region. From Egypt to Syria to Iraq, the Middle East's dictatorships would be succeeded by liberal, democratic regimes. Years later, however, there is very little liberality or democracy to show. Indeed, what these upheavals have bequeathed to history is a baleful, and barely noticed legacy: The near-annihilation of the world's most ancient communities of Christians.
The persecution of Christians throughout the Middle East, as well as the silence with which it has been met in the West, are the subject of journalist Ed West's Kindle Single "The Silence of Our Friends." The booklet is a brisk and chilling litany of horrors: Discriminatory laws, mass graves, unofficial pogroms, and exile. The persecuted are not just Coptic and Nestorian Christians who have relatively few co-communicants in the West, but Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants as well.
Throughout the Middle East the pattern is the same. Christians are murdered in mob violence or by militant groups. Their churches are bombed, their shops destroyed, and their homes looted. Laws are passed making them second-class citizens, and the majority of them eventually leave.
In Egypt, a rumor that a Muslim girl was dating a Christian boy led to the burning of multiple churches, and the imposition of a curfew on a local Christian population. Illiterate children were held in police custody for urinating in a trash heap, because an imam claimed that pages quoting the Koran were in the pile and had been desecrated. Again, the persecution resulted in Christian families leaving their homes behind.
In Syria, the situation is even worse. In June 2013, a cluster of Christian villages was totally destroyed. Friar Pierbattista Pizzaballa reported that "of the 4,000 inhabitants of the village of Ghassanieh... no more than 10 people remain."
Two Syrian bishops have been kidnapped by rebel groups. Militants expelled 90 percent of the Christians in the city of Homs. Patriarch Gregorios III of Antioch says that out of a population of 1.75 million, 450,000 Syrian Christians have simply fled their homes in fear.
In Iraq, the story is the same but more dramatic. According to West, between 2004 and 2011 the population of Chaldo-Assyrian Christians fell from over a million to as few as 150,000. In 2006, Isoh Majeed, who advocated the creation of a safe haven for Christians around Nineveh, was murdered in his home. The number of churches in Iraq has declined to just 57, from 300 before the invasion. The decline of Iraq's Christian population since the first Gulf War is roughly 90 percent, with most of the drop occurring since the 2003 invasion.
The U.S. and the U.K. bear some responsibility in this catastrophe, since they oversaw the creation of Iraq's postwar government and did little to protect minority faiths.
West's book touches on the clueless and callous behavior of Western governments in these episodes. U.S. reconstruction aid to Iraq is distributed according to Iraqi laws that discriminate against Christian Iraqis. The U.S. pours billions of foreign aid into Egypt, and yet the Christians in that country are not allowed to build churches (or even so much as repair toilets in them) without explicit permission from the head of state, almost never granted. Last September, the U.S and Britain attempted to make their support of Syrian rebel groups explicit and overt, but at the same time some of these militias were executing a pogrom against Christians.
A Christian shopkeeper in Ma'loula summed it up in a quote to the BBC: "Tell the EU and the Americans that we sent you Saint Paul 2,000 years ago to take you from the darkness, and you sent us terrorists to kill us."
In an email to The Week, Ed West says there are things America and its allies can and should do to aid persecuted Christians:
Western countries should make clear that our friendship, cooperation, aid, and help depends on: 1) Religious freedom, which includes the right to change or leave religions; 2) A secular law that treats all people the same. That was not the case in Mubarak's Egypt, which the U.S. helped to prop up with $500 million a year. That is not the case in Iraq, which under U.S. control instigated sharia into its constitution. That shouldn't be acceptable. In 2022, Qatar will host the World Cup, a country where death for apostasy is still on the statute books. Why aren't we all boycotting it?
The last request does put the plight of Middle Eastern Christians in global context. Western activists and media have focused considerable outrage at Russia's laws against "homosexual propaganda" in the lead-up to the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics. It would only seem fitting that Westerners would also protest (or at the very least notice) laws that punish people with death for converting to Christianity.
And yet the Western world is largely ignorant of or untroubled by programmatic violence against Christians. Ed West, citing the French philosopher Regis Debray, distils the problem thusly: "The victims are 'too Christian' to excite the Left, and 'too foreign' to excite the Right."
Church leaders outside the Middle East are afraid to speak out, partly because they fear precipitating more violence. (Seven churches were fire-bombed in Iraq after Pope Benedict XVI quoted an ancient criticism of Islam in an academic speech in Germany.) Oddly, unlike Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and Russia, the U.S. and the U.K. are the only powers acting in the Middle East that do not take any special interest in the safety of those with whom they have a historical religious affinity.
These are the lands in which Jesus' apostles and their disciples made some of the first Christian converts. In an interview, West pointed out that these communities "were Christian when our ancestors were worshipping trees and stones." Now they are in danger of imminent extinction.
In 2013, Raphael I Sako, the Chaldean Patriarch of Baghdad, said the following at his installation homily, "Still the shadow of fear, anxiety, and death is hanging over our people." He warned: "If emigration continues, God forbid, there will be no more Christians in the Middle East. It will be no more than a distant memory." West's book is a sobering reminder that Western policy has helped shape this grim fate for Middle Eastern Christians — and Western silence allows it to continue.
http://theweek.com/article/index/255403/the-worlds-most-ancient-christian-communities-are-being-destroyed-mdash-and-no-one-cares
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
it's so good to know that islam offers the same tolerance as it demands for itself everywhere it goes..
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
Yea religion is funny like thatheavenly father wrote:it's so good to know that islam offers the same tolerance as it demands for itself everywhere it goes..
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11
Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
heavenly father wrote:it's so good to know that islam offers the same tolerance as it demands for itself everywhere it goes..
Islam is a demonic religion
during the satanic affairs incident Muhammad was said to have been possessed by Satan
anyone who follows the words of such a mass murdering child raping psychopath would naturally commit atrocities in his name
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
Korben Dallas wrote:Yea religion is funny like thatheavenly father wrote:it's so good to know that islam offers the same tolerance as it demands for itself everywhere it goes..
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11
Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5
i could quote the koran on the subject but it would take years to go through..you might have noticed that your references are mainly from Deuteronomy as they went in to the promise land, this was a land given to them by God and as such they were to keep it pure and Holy for God, it was for that time and that place..
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
smelly_bandit wrote:heavenly father wrote:it's so good to know that islam offers the same tolerance as it demands for itself everywhere it goes..
Islam is a demonic religion
during the satanic affairs incident Muhammad was said to have been possessed by Satan
anyone who follows the words of such a mass murdering child raping psychopath would naturally commit atrocities in his name
it proves itself as such everywhere it goes, it's atrocities and actions prove it only knows war and hate.
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
Actually the OT is very similar to the koranheavenly father wrote:Korben Dallas wrote:
Yea religion is funny like that
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11
Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5
i could quote the koran on the subject but it would take years to go through..you might have noticed that your references are mainly from Deuteronomy as they went in to the promise land, this was a land given to them by God and as such they were to keep it pure and Holy for God, it was for that time and that place..
And I agree that the quotes are from Deuteronomy ......not sure what the point is you're making with that though ?
Allegedly given them by god
In fact, by the Americans, British.Russia in 1945 ish
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
atrocities in his name ?smelly_bandit wrote:heavenly father wrote:it's so good to know that islam offers the same tolerance as it demands for itself everywhere it goes..
Islam is a demonic religion
during the satanic affairs incident Muhammad was said to have been possessed by Satan
anyone who follows the words of such a mass murdering child raping psychopath would naturally commit atrocities in his name
Are you saying that Christians have never committed atrocities in the name of God ..............
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
Korben Dallas wrote:Actually the OT is very similar to the koranheavenly father wrote:
i could quote the koran on the subject but it would take years to go through..you might have noticed that your references are mainly from Deuteronomy as they went in to the promise land, this was a land given to them by God and as such they were to keep it pure and Holy for God, it was for that time and that place..
And I agree that the quotes are from Deuteronomy ......not sure what the point is you're making with that though ?
Allegedly given them by god
In fact, by the Americans, British.Russia in 1945 ish
I did make my point, the quotes from deut..were given by God to his people for that particular time and that particular place they were going in to, it was a land God had given them and he intended for them to keep it right for him, the killing of all those against God etc was not for all time.
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
Korben Dallas wrote:Actually the OT is very similar to the koranheavenly father wrote:
i could quote the koran on the subject but it would take years to go through..you might have noticed that your references are mainly from Deuteronomy as they went in to the promise land, this was a land given to them by God and as such they were to keep it pure and Holy for God, it was for that time and that place..
And I agree that the quotes are from Deuteronomy ......not sure what the point is you're making with that though ?
Allegedly given them by god
In fact, by the Americans, British.Russia in 1945 ish
how would you know that the OT is similar to the Qur'an when its clear you haven't read either??
you're an idiot who is capable only of throwing soundbites around
your head would explode if you had to have a proper in depth theological debate
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
Korben Dallas wrote:atrocities in his name ?smelly_bandit wrote:
Islam is a demonic religion
during the satanic affairs incident Muhammad was said to have been possessed by Satan
anyone who follows the words of such a mass murdering child raping psychopath would naturally commit atrocities in his name
Are you saying that Christians have never committed atrocities in the name of God ..............
am i saying that???
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
says who ? in fact the bible says it isheavenly father wrote:Korben Dallas wrote:
Actually the OT is very similar to the koran
And I agree that the quotes are from Deuteronomy ......not sure what the point is you're making with that though ?
Allegedly given them by god
In fact, by the Americans, British.Russia in 1945 ish
I did make my point, the quotes from deut..were given by God to his people for that particular time and that particular place they were going in to, it was a land God had given them and he intended for them to keep it right for him, the killing of all those against God etc was not for all time.
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
well you said "anyone who follows the words of such a mass murdering child raping psychopath would naturally commit atrocities in his name"smelly_bandit wrote:Korben Dallas wrote:
atrocities in his name ?
Are you saying that Christians have never committed atrocities in the name of God ..............
am i saying that???
And given god and some of the followers of god are just as guilty of these things you post makes no sense
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
lets keep things on track here
this is not about ancient violence committed by Christians centuries ago
its about centuries old Christian communities being wiped out by violent modern day savage Muslims
clearly korben is not bothered by these events, i just wish he had the balls to own his views
this is not about ancient violence committed by Christians centuries ago
its about centuries old Christian communities being wiped out by violent modern day savage Muslims
clearly korben is not bothered by these events, i just wish he had the balls to own his views
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
Korben Dallas wrote:well you said "anyone who follows the words of such a mass murdering child raping psychopath would naturally commit atrocities in his name"smelly_bandit wrote:
am i saying that???
And given god and some of the followers of god are just as guilty of these things you post makes no sense
it makes no sense because you lack any theological knowledge of Christianity or Islam
if you bothered to educate yourself instead of choosing ignorance then it might make sense
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
Oh clear is it My my your so clevvvversmelly_bandit wrote:Korben Dallas wrote:
Actually the OT is very similar to the koran
And I agree that the quotes are from Deuteronomy ......not sure what the point is you're making with that though ?
Allegedly given them by god
In fact, by the Americans, British.Russia in 1945 ish
how would you know that the OT is similar to the Qur'an when its clear you haven't read either??
you're an idiot who is capable only of throwing soundbites around
your head would explode if you had to have a proper in depth theological debate
And relevant sound bites
i think you will find
like yours has just done, you mean.... Naaa, don't think so i rarely loose my temper and call people names or use abuse
And why should i try to make a fool of you when you do such a good job on your own
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
says the guy hurling abuse ........dear me ....Tut TUt Tutsmelly_bandit wrote:Korben Dallas wrote:
well you said "anyone who follows the words of such a mass murdering child raping psychopath would naturally commit atrocities in his name"
And given god and some of the followers of god are just as guilty of these things you post makes no sense
it makes no sense because you lack any theological knowledge of Christianity or Islam
if you bothered to educate yourself instead of choosing ignorance then it might make sense
Not very educated of you if that's where you go
The sign of a failed argument that is
Last edited by Korben Dallas on Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
Korben Dallas wrote:says the guy hurling abuse ........dear me ....Tut TUt Tutsmelly_bandit wrote:
it makes no sense because you lack any theological knowledge of Christianity or Islam
if you bothered to educate yourself instead of choosing ignorance then it might make sense
I would not worry Korben, it makes me laugh when smelly claims others lack knowledge on theology, with his inability to actually read them himself due to the countless errors he always makes.
The reality is it is bad that the Christian community is being persecuted today in Muslims lands and increasing and little is being done. What I find odd though is that if you believed his illogical views on Islam, is it not strange that the oldest Christian communities can be found in these lands. I mean if we were to believe smelly, they should have all been wiped out centuries ago don't you think?
Very odd that this is not the case really!
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
"The reality is it is bad that the Christian community is being persecuted today in Muslims lands and increasing and little is being done"
Good to know that you agree with me didge
Good to know that you agree with me didge
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
Amazing that an article was written and published about it, given that "no one cares."
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
Ben_Reilly wrote:Amazing that an article was written and published about it, given that "no one cares."
Amazing contribution
I guess you're the brains of the outfit
I would think that you would fall into the "no one cares" category
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
heavenly father wrote:Korben Dallas wrote:
Yea religion is funny like that
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11
Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5
i could quote the koran on the subject but it would take years to go through..you might have noticed that your references are mainly from Deuteronomy as they went in to the promise land, this was a land given to them by God and as such they were to keep it pure and Holy for God, it was for that time and that place..
No It wouldn't
Only the first 3rd is hate filled (written when Mohammad was young) the middle is moderate and the later 3rd is very Love filled. It is a better literary work than the bible (it is more coherent and does not have the obvious edits the Bible has) and they pretty much say the same thing regarding morality.
the Torah is by far the most violent and calls for the death and torture of the most innocents simply for not being Jews. the Koran teaches trying to Convert Christians since the Koran in book 3 in the Monotheist Trilogy, it makes sense that Christians loving the 2nd book might like the 3rd, and if you do believe the bible there is no reason why you wouldn't like the content of the Koran
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Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
heavenly father wrote:Korben Dallas wrote:
Actually the OT is very similar to the koran
And I agree that the quotes are from Deuteronomy ......not sure what the point is you're making with that though ?
Allegedly given them by god
In fact, by the Americans, British.Russia in 1945 ish
I did make my point, the quotes from deut..were given by God to his people for that particular time and that particular place they were going in to, it was a land God had given them and he intended for them to keep it right for him, the killing of all those against God etc was not for all time.
You are wrong....there is NOTHING in the bible to say that they were purely "for that time" therefor, since (according to you fruitloops) it is the inerrant word of god it has to be "for all time"......................... to say otherwise is "interpreting" it and the inerrant word of god needs no interpreting indeed it would be heresy to do so....
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
smelly_bandit wrote:Ben_Reilly wrote:Amazing that an article was written and published about it, given that "no one cares."
Amazing contribution
I guess you're the brains of the outfit
I would think that you would fall into the "no one cares" category
The fact that someone went to the trouble of writing, editing and publishing an article on this proves that the idea that "no one cares" is pretty brainless, compadre.
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 )
Or
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 )
So not only does Jesus strongly approve of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament.
So clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself.
None other then Jesus said so.
Or
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 )
So not only does Jesus strongly approve of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament.
So clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself.
None other then Jesus said so.
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
grumpy old git wrote:heavenly father wrote:
I did make my point, the quotes from deut..were given by God to his people for that particular time and that particular place they were going in to, it was a land God had given them and he intended for them to keep it right for him, the killing of all those against God etc was not for all time.
You are wrong....there is NOTHING in the bible to say that they were purely "for that time" therefor, since (according to you fruitloops) it is the inerrant word of god it has to be "for all time"......................... to say otherwise is "interpreting" it and the inerrant word of god needs no interpreting indeed it would be heresy to do so....
Agreed there is nothing worse when people of faith claim one part is the word of God, but then decide it is for a time only. Not only is this an absurd view point by some Christians but clearly claiming that God is not infallible, as surely his words would stand for all time, as the word of God.
Has to be one of the most biggest copouts Christians say, they believe that the bible is the word of God but his views are only meant for the time, odd one that!
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
Odd and grossly inaccuratePhilDidge wrote:grumpy old git wrote:
You are wrong....there is NOTHING in the bible to say that they were purely "for that time" therefor, since (according to you fruitloops) it is the inerrant word of god it has to be "for all time"......................... to say otherwise is "interpreting" it and the inerrant word of god needs no interpreting indeed it would be heresy to do so....
Agreed there is nothing worse when people of faith claim one part is the word of God, but then decide it is for a time only. Not only is this an absurd view point by some Christians but clearly claiming that God is not infallible, as surely his words would stand for all time, as the word of God.
Has to be one of the most biggest copouts Christians say, they believe that the bible is the word of God but his views are only meant for the time, odd one that!
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
Ben_Reilly wrote:smelly_bandit wrote:
Amazing contribution
I guess you're the brains of the outfit
I would think that you would fall into the "no one cares" category
The fact that someone went to the trouble of writing, editing and publishing an article on this proves that the idea that "no one cares" is pretty brainless, compadre.
I think it's meaning may have been written a little too subtly for your level of finesse
The fact that you're taking it purely at face value suggests to me that you're the kind of person the article is talking about
Guest- Guest
Re: The world's most ancient Christian communities are being destroyed — and no one cares
PhilDidge wrote:grumpy old git wrote:
You are wrong....there is NOTHING in the bible to say that they were purely "for that time" therefor, since (according to you fruitloops) it is the inerrant word of god it has to be "for all time"......................... to say otherwise is "interpreting" it and the inerrant word of god needs no interpreting indeed it would be heresy to do so....
Agreed there is nothing worse when people of faith claim one part is the word of God, but then decide it is for a time only. Not only is this an absurd view point by some Christians but clearly claiming that God is not infallible, as surely his words would stand for all time, as the word of God.
Has to be one of the most biggest copouts Christians say, they believe that the bible is the word of God but his views are only meant for the time, odd one that!
What's even more odd is that you frequently argue that the qur'an is written for only a certain time and place
But now you're saying that isn't the case??
Good I'll discuss the qur'an presently
Damn I love it when you shoot yourself in the face
Guest- Guest
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