Jeremy Corbyn ally faces furious backlash from female Labour MPs over women-only train carriages

16h
Chris Williamson MP 

 ✔@DerbyChrisW
Replying to @stellacreasy

[ltr]I didn't suggest imposing restrictions Stella, merely consulting on offering a choice in view of the statistics showing increased attacks[/ltr]

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stellacreasy @stellacreasy

[ltr]Doesn’t keep women safe to restrict their movements-it normalises attacks. We need to be clear they are problem, not women’s seating plans..[/ltr]


22:06 - 22 Aug 2017

Syl wrote:I don't understand why people are so against this.
If ..as BTP figures have shown, sexual attacks on women travelling on trains has doubled in 5 years, something drastic has to happen....female only train carriages is one solution.

I imagine many women travelling alone, locked in a carriage with God knows who would feel nervous, its an option some women may be glad of.

Its certainly not normalising sex attacks...its a choice that a woman could either use or not.

sassy wrote:It's so boring to have to keeping repeating myself, but I seem to remember saying this ages ago.   Jeremy Corbyn DID NOT SUGGEST THIS.   A women's charity that has been considering this for years asked him to put it forward to be discussed.   So he did.

The charity:

https://thewomensresourcecentre.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Making-the-case-for-women-only-July-2011.pdf

I do wish dumb people would check their facts.   Just because it's in the Telegraph etc doesn't make it the truth.

Thorin wrote:

sassy wrote:It's so boring to have to keeping repeating myself, but I seem to remember saying this ages ago.   Jeremy Corbyn DID NOT SUGGEST THIS.   A women's charity that has been considering this for years asked him to put it forward to be discussed.   So he did.

The charity:

https://thewomensresourcecentre.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/Making-the-case-for-women-only-July-2011.pdf

I do wish dumb people would check their facts.   Just because it's in the Telegraph etc doesn't make it the truth.

I suggest you go to Specsavers

They never claimed he suggested it, but that he proposed it.

The person claiming it was suggested by Corbyn, is Chris Williams.

Doh

sassy wrote:

Thorin wrote:


I suggest you go to Specsavers

They never claimed he suggested it, but that he proposed it.

The person claiming it was suggested by Corbyn, is Chris Williams.

Doh

He didn't propose it DOH, he suggested that as a women's charity would like it looked into, it was looked into.  

Thorin wrote:

sassy wrote:

He didn't propose it DOH, he suggested that as a women's charity would like it looked into, it was looked into.  

That is then suggesting and proposing

Doh

Is this all you are worried about on this thread?

Defending an idiot and not talking about the actual problem

Holy crap on a cracker

sassy wrote:

Thorin wrote:


That is then suggesting and proposing

Doh

Is this all you are worried about on this thread?

Defending an idiot and not talking about the actual problem

Holy crap on a cracker

Always said your understanding of English was useless.

Syl wrote:I don't understand why people are so against this.
If ..as BTP figures have shown, sexual attacks on women travelling on trains has doubled in 5 years, something drastic has to happen....female only train carriages is one solution.

I imagine many women travelling alone, locked in a carriage with God knows who would feel nervous, its an option some women may be glad of.

Its certainly not normalising sex attacks...its a choice that a woman could either use or not.

sassy wrote:

Syl wrote:I don't understand why people are so against this.
If ..as BTP figures have shown, sexual attacks on women travelling on trains has doubled in 5 years, something drastic has to happen....female only train carriages is one solution.

I imagine many women travelling alone, locked in a carriage with God knows who would feel nervous, its an option some women may be glad of.

Its certainly not normalising sex attacks...its a choice that a woman could either use or not.

Quite agree.   If you don't want to use it, you don't have to.   I've been stuck in a carriage with a nutter and had to pull the alarm, which I didn't want to do knowing the consequence of the train hold up, etc etc, but decided that my safety was more important.

magica wrote:

sassy wrote:


Quite agree.   If you don't want to use it, you don't have to.   I've been stuck in a carriage with a nutter and had to pull the alarm, which I didn't want to do knowing the consequence of the train hold up, etc etc, but decided that my safety was more important.

I agree with you both on this.  Women travelling alone at night feel vulnerable, so if they want to, they can use these carriages. Mind you, nothings to stop a man getting on there, especially in the rush hour.

With guards losing their jobs, there will be no guards on long distance train journeys. I always felt safe with guards, shame they are about to be extinct.

sassy wrote:

Syl wrote:I don't understand why people are so against this.
If ..as BTP figures have shown, sexual attacks on women travelling on trains has doubled in 5 years, something drastic has to happen....female only train carriages is one solution.

I imagine many women travelling alone, locked in a carriage with God knows who would feel nervous, its an option some women may be glad of.

Its certainly not normalising sex attacks...its a choice that a woman could either use or not.

Quite agree.   If you don't want to use it, you don't have to.   I've been stuck in a carriage with a nutter and had to pull the alarm, which I didn't want to do knowing the consequence of the train hold up, etc etc, but decided that my safety was more important.

Thorin wrote:

magica wrote:


I agree with you both on this.  Women travelling alone at night feel vulnerable, so if they want to, they can use these carriages. Mind you, nothings to stop a man getting on there, especially in the rush hour.

With guards losing their jobs, there will be no guards on long distance train journeys. I always felt safe with guards, shame they are about to be extinct.

#

But that is the point to have guards on trains. As its not just women who are abused or assaulted.
That there is someone present walking through the trains, as you have on long distance trains with conductors. Pressure should be applied that all trains have guards on them. Again you would not be able to lock ajouning carriages, as the women would have to have access to toilets ect. So there would be nothing to enforce this in practice unless you had guards on the trains.

The purpose should be about protecting all passengers, not specifically some.
What about the elderly?
The disabled?
Are we going to have separate carriages for them also?

HoratioTarr wrote:

sassy wrote:


Quite agree.   If you don't want to use it, you don't have to.   I've been stuck in a carriage with a nutter and had to pull the alarm, which I didn't want to do knowing the consequence of the train hold up, etc etc, but decided that my safety was more important.

What was the outcome?

Thorin wrote:

Syl wrote:I don't understand why people are so against this.
If ..as BTP figures have shown, sexual attacks on women travelling on trains has doubled in 5 years, something drastic has to happen....female only train carriages is one solution.

I imagine many women travelling alone, locked in a carriage with God knows who would feel nervous, its an option some women may be glad of.

Its certainly not normalising sex attacks...its a choice that a woman could either use or not.

Because how would it ever be able to carry this out in practice? 

How in anyway would it stop any attacks?

It would require a guard on each train within that carriage.

I agree something has to happen, but can you see the train companies employing more people on trains, without then not charging women extra?

Even then would it prevent any attacks?

Then what about men who are also assaulted?

Are they then deemed lesser worth with assaults?

You protect all passengers, not create an unequal system

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Because how would it ever be able to carry this out in practice? 

How in anyway would it stop any attacks?

It would require a guard on each train within that carriage.

I agree something has to happen, but can you see the train companies employing more people on trains, without then not charging women extra?

Even then would it prevent any attacks?

Then what about men who are also assaulted?

Are they then deemed lesser worth with assaults?

You protect all passengers, not create an unequal system

I was meaning on trains with no access to a coridor, where once the train is moving you are isolated with whoever is in your carriage.
It would only require the guard on the station, who are there anyway,  to ensure no males entered the female only carriage.
Some women would pay extra for the security.
Obviouly it would stop men assaulting women if they are not allowed in the carriage.
Sexual assaults on males has not doubled on trains in 5 years...thats not  the point under discussion.

Thorin wrote:

Syl wrote:

I was meaning on trains with no access to a coridor, where once the train is moving you are isolated with whoever is in your carriage.
It would only require the guard on the station, who are there anyway,  to ensure no males entered the female only carriage.
Some women would pay extra for the security.
Obviouly it would stop men assaulting women if they are not allowed in the carriage.
Sexual assaults on males has not doubled on trains in 5 years...thats not  the point under discussion.

There is no such trains without corridors. Where again you then have people stranded if they want to use the toilet. So again its impractical to put into practice. But many stations are not even manned for the greater part of the day. Hence it would be better placed to have a guard on the train.

Again though your view only offers protection to one group, when the view here should be have all passengers protected. Its not just sexual assaults, but assaults, robberies, abuse etc. Are they now as victims not of need of protection also? So its very much the point of discussion, as you are elevating one set of victims above the rest, rendering the others of little value or protection.

What about the elderly?
What about those who are disabled?
What about those who are black/Asian ect racially abused and assualted?
What about those who are religious?

Where do you want to draw the line, when you miss the boat on this, that all passengers should have protection?

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:

There is no such trains without corridors. Where again you then have people stranded if they want to use the toilet. So again its impractical to put into practice. But many stations are not even manned for the greater part of the day. Hence it would be better placed to have a guard on the train.

Again though your view only offers protection to one group, when the view here should be have all passengers protected. Its not just sexual assaults, but assaults, robberies, abuse etc. Are they now as victims not of need of protection also? So its very much the point of discussion, as you are elevating one set of victims above the rest, rendering the others of little value or protection.

What about the elderly?
What about those who are disabled?
What about those who are black/Asian ect racially abused and assualted?
What about those who are religious?

Where do you want to draw the line, when you miss the boat on this, that all passengers should have protection?

We went on a corridor less train in Wales a couple of years ago. The toilets were on the stations.

Providing a separate carriage for women isnt causing more violence for any other group, but its eliminating one sort of violence.
More guards and railway police are needed if other violence is escalating.

Sometimes you have to priorotise, if one group is more vulnerable than others they should be the main concern.

Violence across the network has leapt by almost a third in the past five years with 8,979 assaults reported last year – or 25 a day – compared with 6,921 in 2010.

Overall there have been 46,016 vicious assaults over the period, including unprovoked knife attacks and pitched battles between football hooligans.

Critics last night described the UK rail network as a “playground for thugs and criminals” and warned the surge in attacks was “spiralling out of control”.

Labour’s Shadow Transport Secretary, Lilian Greenwood, said: “This is extremely concerning.

“Particularly since the information comes at a time when the Government is proposing funding cuts of up to 8% for the British Transport Police and some operators plan to reduce staffing on trains or at stations.”

Figures obtained by The Sunday Post under Freedom Of Information show there were 4,313 sexual assaults recorded at the UK’s train stations over the past five years.

The number has risen steeply from 544 in 2010 to 1,179 last year.

In Scotland, the country’s busiest stations – Glasgow Central, Glasgow Queen Street, Edinburgh Waverley and Edinburgh Haymarket – are the worst for violent and sexual crime.

Transport police south of the Border logged 191 violent and sex offences at Newcastle, 181 at York, 154 at Preston, 67 at Carlisle and 65 at Blackpool.

Thousands more were carried out in front of horrified commuters at London’s train and the capital’s underground stations.

https://www.sundaypost.com/news/scottish-news/railway-crime-safe-feel/


More than 6,000 sex offences were recorded over a five-year period on the rail network, a Freedom of Information request revealed.

Of these, at least 64 incidents related to victims under the age of 13, including two reports of rape, seven of sexual activity and 52 of sexual assault.

Dozens of youngsters aged between 13 and 15, two mentally ill passengers and nine men and women aged 70 or over have also been subjected to sex crimes.

The oldest person targeted by a sex attacker was an 84-year-old woman, while the youngest was a two-year-old girl, the figures show.

Lucy Hastings, director at Victim Support, said: "We know from supporting thousands of victims of sexual crimes every year that this can have a devastating and long lasting impact on people’s lives."

Southeastern, South West Trains, Southern and Great Western were found to be among the country's top 10 most sex crime-stricken companies.

So was Network Rail, which owns and manages a number of major stations across Britain, including Glasgow Central, Manchester Piccadilly, Liverpool Lime Street, Leeds, King's Cross, London Bridge and Victoria.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/you-safe-britains-trains-five-8315817

Syl wrote:Unlike you Thor, who cant seem to offer any solution to the escalating sexual assaults on train passengers,i think designating certain carriages for women only....would be worth trying.
If the figures dont go down, scrap it, nothing is lost..

As for the escalating figures of other crimes of violence....obviously something needs to be done.
More guards, more railway police, more CCTV, heavier punishments for criminals.....Train companies make enough profit, maybe  they should reinvest some of it to protect their passengers.

Syl wrote:Night Thor...up early tomorrow....luckily i don'thave to travel by train to get wher i'm going.

sassy wrote:Here'a a fact for you Tommy (BTW, has your avatar been photoshopped, the cat looks like it's doing a Nazi salute lol)


Britain considers women-only train carriages to tackle sexual assaults
Minister Claire Perry said today she was “absolutely determined” to do whatever it took to increase safety and reverse an increase in assaults.

Sep 29th 2014, 10:23 PM

BRITAIN MAY CONSIDER women-only carriages on trains in a bid to combat a rising number of sexual assaults on commuters, the transport minister said today.

Minister Claire Perry said she was “absolutely determined” to do whatever it took to increase safety and reverse an increase in assaults.

“They have introduced women-only seating in Japan because there is a particular problem with groping and low-level violence,” Perry said at the Conservative Party conference in Birmingham.

“It is a very interesting question and I will look at all ideas.”

The most recent figures from Britain’s transport police recorded a 21 percent annual increase in sexual offences in the year to March 2014.

http://www.thejournal.ie/britain-women-only-carriage-1697856-Sep2014/


As I said Tommy - facts.   I do realise you don't have many at your disposal.