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About Us & RulesHow they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
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How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by Guest Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:15 am
When you are dealing with a problem it’s not a bad idea to ask what would a solution look like. Going through a tough time; ask what ‘when it’s over, what will it look like’.
The terror-crisis; what will it look like when it’s over? Three thousand people interned, armed lollipop ladies and a McDonald’s in Raqqa High Street? What does over-and-done-with look like?
When we can say it’s finished; what can we expect? A truly multi-cultural, secular society. How far away is it and how do we get there?
It’s a question we need to ask ourselves about the NHS. When the present austerity is over, what can we expect. What will it look like.
A medicine cabinet and a self-care App distributed to every household or a leaner, more efficient health service with consistent outcomes and every one paying the right price for a bog-roll? Maybe!
The HSJ are providing us with a glimpse of what the future might look like. They have published a leak. It is interesting it has appeared 72 hours before we go to the polls.
This is a well-timed leak. An Exocet of a leak. A leak designed to do maximum damage. It shows us what the NHS will look like.
It reveals the little known ‘capped expenditure process’. The process designed to ensure this year’s expenditure targets are met. How to do that?
You can be more efficient, change skill-mix. Squeeze the pips. Might work but there is only one guaranteed way to do it; stop doing things and hire fewer people.
Bright ideas included in the leaked document are:
>> Dumping the NHS Constitution; extending waiting times.
>> Ending outsourcing contracts.
>> Closing theatres and wards and cutting staff.
>> Focussing on the ‘winter response’.
>> Dumping NICE recommendations for adopting new stuff and stop funding ‘low-value’ treatments.
>> Closing or downgrading A&E and maternity services; circling the wagons.
>> Crossing items off the prescription lists.
>> Flogging-off bits of the estate.
Paul Baumann and surprisingly, Bob Alexander are fingered… leading the work to find things to cut.
Apparently, they had hoped to keep the news hush-hush until after the election. If there wasn't so much other news this would certainly be headlining the 6 o’clock.
Let me confide in you; a week ago I had wind of this but dismissed it as election mischief. Now, I have no doubt it is true.
How should we look a this? I think there is only one way.
Health managers are being driven into a corner. There is not enough money in the system to deliver what is being asked of it. Framing a bleak future, as part of an incoming Minister’s induction pack, is a cunning plan!
Set the predicament against election promises and you don’t get very far. Pledges of post-election funding go nowhere near repairing the damage that has been done by seven years of austerity.
Undoubtedly, the NHS can be more efficient at being effective. The difficulty is, it will require innovation, which carries a risk and investment for which there is no funding.
Buying cheaper bog-rolls, flogging-off bits of the estate, making sure assets are sweated and regarding variation as the enemy of quality… is all good stuff… at any time. Let’s do it. But, let’s not do it with any expectation that it is going to be a game changer.
When any document is leaked, any secret made public, you have to ask why. I don’t think you need me to spell this out!
A bigger question; is this part of the journey or is this what the end looks like?
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Is-this-what-the-end-looks-like-.html?soid=1102665899193&aid=lkL8nEEVnTU
Exclusive: New national savings drive will 'challenge the values' of NHS leaders
5 June, 2017 By Dave West, Ben Clover, Lawrence Dunhill, Allison Coggan
Closing wards and services, blocking choice of private providers, systematically extending waiting times, and stopping some treatments are all being considered under a national programme targeted at the health economies with the highest overspends.
More, so, so much more at:
https://www.hsj.co.uk/7018461.article?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter307&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTmpka01qTTBNamRrTm1OayIsInQiOiI1SFR1K2FsQkRPQjBFd0J1azFWRTY0bWhNZUR3WUlNbys4aWc0UlprdXYyYkZ3NTlzV0VPVnFCMEQ0N3RvaGNEM2pxMnFhRXRRbFhtQVwvcUtDZjgyMFpYS1lXUm1OdWJaZVZsY3RQTlZiUGdcL21kV2RWT20zZFpxSEoxNytGbXk2In0
That's the site 'For Healthcare Leaders' by the way.
The terror-crisis; what will it look like when it’s over? Three thousand people interned, armed lollipop ladies and a McDonald’s in Raqqa High Street? What does over-and-done-with look like?
When we can say it’s finished; what can we expect? A truly multi-cultural, secular society. How far away is it and how do we get there?
It’s a question we need to ask ourselves about the NHS. When the present austerity is over, what can we expect. What will it look like.
A medicine cabinet and a self-care App distributed to every household or a leaner, more efficient health service with consistent outcomes and every one paying the right price for a bog-roll? Maybe!
The HSJ are providing us with a glimpse of what the future might look like. They have published a leak. It is interesting it has appeared 72 hours before we go to the polls.
This is a well-timed leak. An Exocet of a leak. A leak designed to do maximum damage. It shows us what the NHS will look like.
It reveals the little known ‘capped expenditure process’. The process designed to ensure this year’s expenditure targets are met. How to do that?
You can be more efficient, change skill-mix. Squeeze the pips. Might work but there is only one guaranteed way to do it; stop doing things and hire fewer people.
Bright ideas included in the leaked document are:
>> Dumping the NHS Constitution; extending waiting times.
>> Ending outsourcing contracts.
>> Closing theatres and wards and cutting staff.
>> Focussing on the ‘winter response’.
>> Dumping NICE recommendations for adopting new stuff and stop funding ‘low-value’ treatments.
>> Closing or downgrading A&E and maternity services; circling the wagons.
>> Crossing items off the prescription lists.
>> Flogging-off bits of the estate.
Paul Baumann and surprisingly, Bob Alexander are fingered… leading the work to find things to cut.
Apparently, they had hoped to keep the news hush-hush until after the election. If there wasn't so much other news this would certainly be headlining the 6 o’clock.
Let me confide in you; a week ago I had wind of this but dismissed it as election mischief. Now, I have no doubt it is true.
How should we look a this? I think there is only one way.
Health managers are being driven into a corner. There is not enough money in the system to deliver what is being asked of it. Framing a bleak future, as part of an incoming Minister’s induction pack, is a cunning plan!
Set the predicament against election promises and you don’t get very far. Pledges of post-election funding go nowhere near repairing the damage that has been done by seven years of austerity.
Undoubtedly, the NHS can be more efficient at being effective. The difficulty is, it will require innovation, which carries a risk and investment for which there is no funding.
Buying cheaper bog-rolls, flogging-off bits of the estate, making sure assets are sweated and regarding variation as the enemy of quality… is all good stuff… at any time. Let’s do it. But, let’s not do it with any expectation that it is going to be a game changer.
When any document is leaked, any secret made public, you have to ask why. I don’t think you need me to spell this out!
A bigger question; is this part of the journey or is this what the end looks like?
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Is-this-what-the-end-looks-like-.html?soid=1102665899193&aid=lkL8nEEVnTU
Exclusive: New national savings drive will 'challenge the values' of NHS leaders
5 June, 2017 By Dave West, Ben Clover, Lawrence Dunhill, Allison Coggan
Closing wards and services, blocking choice of private providers, systematically extending waiting times, and stopping some treatments are all being considered under a national programme targeted at the health economies with the highest overspends.
More, so, so much more at:
https://www.hsj.co.uk/7018461.article?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter307&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTmpka01qTTBNamRrTm1OayIsInQiOiI1SFR1K2FsQkRPQjBFd0J1azFWRTY0bWhNZUR3WUlNbys4aWc0UlprdXYyYkZ3NTlzV0VPVnFCMEQ0N3RvaGNEM2pxMnFhRXRRbFhtQVwvcUtDZjgyMFpYS1lXUm1OdWJaZVZsY3RQTlZiUGdcL21kV2RWT20zZFpxSEoxNytGbXk2In0
That's the site 'For Healthcare Leaders' by the way.
Guest- Guest
Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by 'Wolfie Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:36 am
Conservative political parties are, by definition and by nature, fundamentally opposed to any public spending that doesn't enhance their own financial profiteering...
* National health, disability and pharma' services;
* Publicly-funded education systems;
* Publicly-funded welfare services;
* Fire and Ambulance services;
* Old-age Pensions;
* Public transport..
All are evil "communistic" plots, engineered to bring down civilisation as we know it !
While all good aTories will look at any chance to flog off public assets..
Fake "austerity" claims and fanciful "trickle down" promises -- and all the while deifying and glorifying job-destroying big business, while pushing failed "balanced budget" agendas, only has one true end game == their long-running goal of halving the maximum tax rates for corporations and their millionaire chums...
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by Guest Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:23 pm
Secret NHS cost-cutting plans sound 'death knell' for British healthcare, warn campaigners
Extended waiting times, ward and service closures, and withdrawal of public funding for some treatments among proposals in new national savings drive
Senior NHS managers are discussing secret cost-cutting plans to be announced after the General Election – measures that one chief executive described as the most extreme and difficult to hit the health service they had ever seen.
Extended waiting times, ward and service closures, and the withdrawal of public funding for some treatments are among the proposals in a new national savings drive designed to cap NHS spending, a leak has revealed.
Health bosses have been told to “think the unthinkable” when devising measures to save money in their regions, according to the Health Service Journal (HSJ).
The “truly shocking” scale of the proposed cuts and closures represent a “death knell” for the values of the NHS, said Louise Irvine, the GP hoping to unseat Jeremy Hunt on Thursday.
Dr Irvine, who is standing for the National Health Action Party in the Health Secretary’s constituency South West Surrey, told The Independent it is “fundamentally dishonest of the Conservatives not to have brought it up before the election.”
“Somebody leaked this because they want to sound the alarm,” she said. “If people are voting they have a right to know this is on the cards.”
The controversial measures are being discussed privately between top officials from NHS England and NHS Improvement and health managers in 14 areas of the country with the highest levels of overspending.
It is “critical” that regions which are “significantly out of balance now confront the difficult choices they have to take”, warned a letter to health service bosses in East Cheshire about the money-saving programme known as the “capped expenditure process”.
National targets such as the 18-week limit for planned surgery could be under threat because among the changes under consideration is drawing out waiting times for non-urgent care – including potential breaches of NHS constitution standards, reported the HSJ.
There are also proposals to increase waiting times in areas where delays are currently lower than average, an idea Dr Irvine called “callous”.
“Even services that are coping now and seeing people in a reasonable time, which is surely a good thing – they want to make those waiting lists longer, too,” she said. “Deliberately making waiting times longer for services which currently have shorter waiting times is really callous, in my view.”
Other ideas under consideration as part of the programme, which aims to ensure NHS spending meets budget targets for this year, include limiting the number of operations carried out by non-NHS providers to make sure funding stays within the health service, which could limit patients’ choice of providers.
NHS funding could also be withdrawn for new and recently-approved treatments and those considered “low value” – adding to the list of prescription items such as cough medicine and gluten-free food that patients were made to pay for earlier this year.
The closure or downgrading of services, in some cases to major hospital departments such as A&E and maternity, selling land and reducing staffing while attempting to maintain enough emergency care capacity to deal with the busy winter period are also among the changes on the cards.
The managers have been asked to first consider how they can save money elsewhere, but half of those that spoke to the HSJ said they were also proposing “difficult decisions”, with one warning they could “challenge the value base” of NHS leaders.
Labour’s Shadow Health Secretary Jonathan Ashworth said the leak showed “the NHS cannot survive five more years of a Tory government”.
“We now know if the Tories are re-elected on Thursday we'll see hospital wards closed, waiting times growing, treatments rationed and staff cut,” he said.
“The fact that NHS bosses have described this as the 'most extreme and difficult NHS finance process they had experienced' and would 'challenge the value basis of the NHS' will make chilling reading for patients and their families who deserve the very best levels of care.”
Liberal Democrat Health spokesperson Norman Lamb said “these savage proposed cuts to frontline services show why we cannot allow Conservative underfunding of the NHS to continue.”
The Conservatives did not immediately respond to The Independent’s request for comment.
The 14 areas asked to enact the cuts are: Bristol, South Gloucestershire and North Somerset; Cambridgeshire and Peterborough; Cheshire (Eastern, Vale Royal and South); Cornwall; Devon; Morecambe Bay; Northumbria; North Central London; North Lincolnshire; North West London; South East London; Staffordshire; Surrey and Sussex; Vale of York and Scarborough and Ryedale.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-cost-cutting-plans-conservatives-leaked-campaigners-election-2017-a7775571.html
So, do I presume nobody on here will need the NHS and neither will their sons/daughters/uncles/aunts/mothers/fathers/grandchildren et al and they don't give a fuck what happens to it?
Extended waiting times, ward and service closures, and withdrawal of public funding for some treatments among proposals in new national savings drive
Senior NHS managers are discussing secret cost-cutting plans to be announced after the General Election – measures that one chief executive described as the most extreme and difficult to hit the health service they had ever seen.
Extended waiting times, ward and service closures, and the withdrawal of public funding for some treatments are among the proposals in a new national savings drive designed to cap NHS spending, a leak has revealed.
Health bosses have been told to “think the unthinkable” when devising measures to save money in their regions, according to the Health Service Journal (HSJ).
The “truly shocking” scale of the proposed cuts and closures represent a “death knell” for the values of the NHS, said Louise Irvine, the GP hoping to unseat Jeremy Hunt on Thursday.
Dr Irvine, who is standing for the National Health Action Party in the Health Secretary’s constituency South West Surrey, told The Independent it is “fundamentally dishonest of the Conservatives not to have brought it up before the election.”
“Somebody leaked this because they want to sound the alarm,” she said. “If people are voting they have a right to know this is on the cards.”
The controversial measures are being discussed privately between top officials from NHS England and NHS Improvement and health managers in 14 areas of the country with the highest levels of overspending.
It is “critical” that regions which are “significantly out of balance now confront the difficult choices they have to take”, warned a letter to health service bosses in East Cheshire about the money-saving programme known as the “capped expenditure process”.
National targets such as the 18-week limit for planned surgery could be under threat because among the changes under consideration is drawing out waiting times for non-urgent care – including potential breaches of NHS constitution standards, reported the HSJ.
There are also proposals to increase waiting times in areas where delays are currently lower than average, an idea Dr Irvine called “callous”.
“Even services that are coping now and seeing people in a reasonable time, which is surely a good thing – they want to make those waiting lists longer, too,” she said. “Deliberately making waiting times longer for services which currently have shorter waiting times is really callous, in my view.”
Other ideas under consideration as part of the programme, which aims to ensure NHS spending meets budget targets for this year, include limiting the number of operations carried out by non-NHS providers to make sure funding stays within the health service, which could limit patients’ choice of providers.
NHS funding could also be withdrawn for new and recently-approved treatments and those considered “low value” – adding to the list of prescription items such as cough medicine and gluten-free food that patients were made to pay for earlier this year.
The closure or downgrading of services, in some cases to major hospital departments such as A&E and maternity, selling land and reducing staffing while attempting to maintain enough emergency care capacity to deal with the busy winter period are also among the changes on the cards.
The managers have been asked to first consider how they can save money elsewhere, but half of those that spoke to the HSJ said they were also proposing “difficult decisions”, with one warning they could “challenge the value base” of NHS leaders.
Labour’s Shadow Health Secretary Jonathan Ashworth said the leak showed “the NHS cannot survive five more years of a Tory government”.
“We now know if the Tories are re-elected on Thursday we'll see hospital wards closed, waiting times growing, treatments rationed and staff cut,” he said.
“The fact that NHS bosses have described this as the 'most extreme and difficult NHS finance process they had experienced' and would 'challenge the value basis of the NHS' will make chilling reading for patients and their families who deserve the very best levels of care.”
Liberal Democrat Health spokesperson Norman Lamb said “these savage proposed cuts to frontline services show why we cannot allow Conservative underfunding of the NHS to continue.”
The Conservatives did not immediately respond to The Independent’s request for comment.
The 14 areas asked to enact the cuts are: Bristol, South Gloucestershire and North Somerset; Cambridgeshire and Peterborough; Cheshire (Eastern, Vale Royal and South); Cornwall; Devon; Morecambe Bay; Northumbria; North Central London; North Lincolnshire; North West London; South East London; Staffordshire; Surrey and Sussex; Vale of York and Scarborough and Ryedale.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-cost-cutting-plans-conservatives-leaked-campaigners-election-2017-a7775571.html
So, do I presume nobody on here will need the NHS and neither will their sons/daughters/uncles/aunts/mothers/fathers/grandchildren et al and they don't give a fuck what happens to it?
Guest- Guest
Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by nicko Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:59 pm
nicko- Forum Detective ????♀️
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by eddie Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:31 pm
nicko wrote:
I don't know why you moan about people spamming then go and spam threads with this crap, yourself?
eddie- King of Beards. Keeper of the Whip. Top Chef. BEES!!!!!! Mushroom muncher. Spider aficionado!
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by Fred Moletrousers Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:19 pm
No-one on this forum respects and cherishes the NHS more than I do. Its doctors and nurses gave me a few precious additional months with my late wife, and it's only thanks to the skills of cardiac consultants that make it possible for me to be having my two pennyworth of chuntering on this forum at this very moment.
But anyone who cannot recognise and accept that the huge cost of adopting and exploiting the latest advances in medicine and associated techology in the interests of the sheer numbers of additional patients that are now having to be accommodated at GP surgeries, A&E and clinical wards simply cannot continue being financed through general taxation really needs to undertake a reality check.
Taxation, even on the so-called megarich, is never in a million years going to pay for all that is needed now - and even less so in the future. The skills, research facilities, entrepreneurship, enterprise and innovation - and financial resources - that the private sector is able to offer simply cannot be rejected on the grounds of this utterly ridiculous moral aversion to the so-called "privatisation" of healthcare.
Frankly, if Heart Valve Widget Inc. can help to give me a few more years before my ancient blood pump fails completely, I for one will be eternally grateful...even if the board of directors manage to pay shareholders a few extra quid in dividends in exchange for achieving it.
But anyone who cannot recognise and accept that the huge cost of adopting and exploiting the latest advances in medicine and associated techology in the interests of the sheer numbers of additional patients that are now having to be accommodated at GP surgeries, A&E and clinical wards simply cannot continue being financed through general taxation really needs to undertake a reality check.
Taxation, even on the so-called megarich, is never in a million years going to pay for all that is needed now - and even less so in the future. The skills, research facilities, entrepreneurship, enterprise and innovation - and financial resources - that the private sector is able to offer simply cannot be rejected on the grounds of this utterly ridiculous moral aversion to the so-called "privatisation" of healthcare.
Frankly, if Heart Valve Widget Inc. can help to give me a few more years before my ancient blood pump fails completely, I for one will be eternally grateful...even if the board of directors manage to pay shareholders a few extra quid in dividends in exchange for achieving it.
Fred Moletrousers- MABEL, THE GREAT ZOG
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by Victorismyhero Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:28 pm
they could save a fortune being more selective about whats allowed as a genuine case for A&E.
times some silly berk is in there becasue they have a splinter or thorn....get a sharp needle heat it red hot in a flame let it cool and dig the bloody thing out yourself asshole.... ffs
then there are the perpetual wasters, the bingedrinkers with various damage the junkies full of shit...you wanna live like that ...then die like that, leave A&E available to those who need it. then theres the hysterical mother who's darling has fell of his trike and got gravel rash and "it might go nasty"...ffs scrub it out with salt water, clean it up and let the air get to it....it will heal
and of course the prize prat of the year...an ADULT...with both forefingers, stuck in opposite ends of one of those "push fit" plumbing fittings, I mean...I ask you????????????????????????????
that kind of idiocy should be chargeable.........
times some silly berk is in there becasue they have a splinter or thorn....get a sharp needle heat it red hot in a flame let it cool and dig the bloody thing out yourself asshole.... ffs
then there are the perpetual wasters, the bingedrinkers with various damage the junkies full of shit...you wanna live like that ...then die like that, leave A&E available to those who need it. then theres the hysterical mother who's darling has fell of his trike and got gravel rash and "it might go nasty"...ffs scrub it out with salt water, clean it up and let the air get to it....it will heal
and of course the prize prat of the year...an ADULT...with both forefingers, stuck in opposite ends of one of those "push fit" plumbing fittings, I mean...I ask you????????????????????????????
that kind of idiocy should be chargeable.........
Victorismyhero- INTERNAL SECURITY DIRECTOR
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by Victorismyhero Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:33 pm
and generally, its about time folks were/became a LOT more knowlegeable about minor injuries and learned to handle them for themselves. A&E are bunged up solid with wankers most of the time, access is just too easy and "its there"
How the hell do folks thing WE coped when it was 1 bus an hour and a 1 hour ride to the nearest A&E, and as kids we were ALWAYS collecting a large variety of knocks bumps scrapes and nasty cuts, not to mention bites stings etc (even the fantasticly expensive taxi ride was 1/2 hour plus waiting for the taxi)
How the hell do folks thing WE coped when it was 1 bus an hour and a 1 hour ride to the nearest A&E, and as kids we were ALWAYS collecting a large variety of knocks bumps scrapes and nasty cuts, not to mention bites stings etc (even the fantasticly expensive taxi ride was 1/2 hour plus waiting for the taxi)
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by Andy Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:35 pm
Nicko hates the truth and cannot handle it. He is devoid of emotion and compassion, and regards a sick or ill patient with the same cold distain as he did with a foe in his rifle sight.eddie wrote:nicko wrote:
I don't know why you moan about people spamming then go and spam threads with this crap, yourself?
His only recourse to Sassy's link are he is bored and driven to sleep.
Frankly , we should ALL be concerned about May's dark and dubious plans to sell off the NHS.
She is keeping it quiet because she KNOWS it is the game changing policy that will destroy her election campaign.
Andy- Poet Laureate & Traveling Bard of NewsFix
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by Guest Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:40 pm
Lord Foul wrote:they could save a fortune being more selective about whats allowed as a genuine case for A&E.
times some silly berk is in there becasue they have a splinter or thorn....get a sharp needle heat it red hot in a flame let it cool and dig the bloody thing out yourself asshole.... ffs
then there are the perpetual wasters, the bingedrinkers with various damage the junkies full of shit...you wanna live like that ...then die like that, leave A&E available to those who need it. then theres the hysterical mother who's darling has fell of his trike and got gravel rash and "it might go nasty"...ffs scrub it out with salt water, clean it up and let the air get to it....it will heal
and of course the prize prat of the year...an ADULT...with both forefingers, stuck in opposite ends of one of those "push fit" plumbing fittings, I mean...I ask you????????????????????????????
that kind of idiocy should be chargeable.........
Why is the NHS under so much pressure?
An ageing population. There are one million more people over the age of 65 than five years ago
Cuts to budgets for social care. While the NHS budget has been protected, social services for home helps and other care have fallen by 11 per cent in five years
This has caused record levels of bedblocking, meaning elderly people with no medical need to be in hospital are stuck there. Latest quarterly show occupancy rates are the highest they have ever been at this stage of the year, while days lost to bedblocking are up by one third in a year
Meanwhile rising numbers of patients are turning up in A&E - around four million more in the last decade, partly fuelled by the ageing population
Shortages of GPs mean waiting times to see a doctor have got longer, and many argue that access to doctors since a 2004 contract removed responsibility for out of hours care
Last edited by Thorin on Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
Guest- Guest
Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by eddie Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:40 pm
Angry Andy wrote:Nicko hates the truth and cannot handle it. He is devoid of emotion and compassion, and regards a sick or ill patient with the same cold distain as he did with a foe in his rifle sight.eddie wrote:nicko wrote:
I don't know why you moan about people spamming then go and spam threads with this crap, yourself?
His only recourse to Sassy's link are he is bored and driven to sleep.
Frankly , we should ALL be concerned about May's dark and dubious plans to sell off the NHS.
She is keeping it quiet because she KNOWS it is the game changing policy that will destroy her election campaign.
I don't want or need your input. You're one of the worst people on here when it comes to repeating your same old lines about the same old posters.
And I'm still fucked off with you for speaking about me in the manner you did. I don't think I've ever done anything or said anything, to warrant a comment like that.
I'm more fucked off with myself for clicking the link in the first place. I know I'm above that kind of thing which is why I avoid it, and the people who post there.
eddie- King of Beards. Keeper of the Whip. Top Chef. BEES!!!!!! Mushroom muncher. Spider aficionado!
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by Andy Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:42 pm
As far as A&E's are concerned, I agree with LF that too many people use them for illness and minor injuries, which is why health clinics should have minor injury units attached to them 0800-2000 Mon-sat. Manned by a doctor and a couple of well qualified nurses.That alone would take much of the pressure off overworked A&E doctors.
The huge concern for the privatization of the NHS, is not operations or outpatient appointments, but A&E.
I believe they do not exist in the UK, and are horrendously expensive run.
Run down by a car. Ambulance arrives. Credit card please!!!!
Welcome to May's Conservative Britain.
The huge concern for the privatization of the NHS, is not operations or outpatient appointments, but A&E.
I believe they do not exist in the UK, and are horrendously expensive run.
Run down by a car. Ambulance arrives. Credit card please!!!!
Welcome to May's Conservative Britain.
Andy- Poet Laureate & Traveling Bard of NewsFix
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by Andy Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:45 pm
Perhaps you now know how I felt when your best mate Dick hacked into mine and Sassy's computers to attempt to filch personal data.eddie wrote:Angry Andy wrote:
Nicko hates the truth and cannot handle it. He is devoid of emotion and compassion, and regards a sick or ill patient with the same cold distain as he did with a foe in his rifle sight.
His only recourse to Sassy's link are he is bored and driven to sleep.
Frankly , we should ALL be concerned about May's dark and dubious plans to sell off the NHS.
She is keeping it quiet because she KNOWS it is the game changing policy that will destroy her election campaign.
I don't want or need your input. You're one of the worst people on here when it comes to repeating your same old lines about the same old posters.
And I'm still fucked off with you for speaking about me in the manner you did. I don't think I've ever done anything or said anything, to warrant a comment like that.
I'm more fucked off with myself for clicking the link in the first place. I know I'm above that kind of thing which is why I avoid it, and the people who post there.
THAT is intrusive.
I dread to think what some forums say about me, or Sassy, or Scrat, or JD, or Irn Bru, or Korben Dallas. And I dont really give a shit.
Last edited by Angry Andy on Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by eddie Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:46 pm
You stupid idiot. Did you actually think before you posted that? What the fuck has any of that got to do with me???
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by eddie Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:47 pm
Actually don't answer. I dont even care. A grown man who replied in the way you just did is not worth my time.
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by nicko Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:59 pm
Eddie, if you want to accuse anyone of spamming, have a look at Lurkers posts, if that's not spamming what is? I only put the "sleeping" thing after Sassys posts because she is always spamming the forum with posts about how nasty the Tory's are and what they have proposed now !As for andy's posts he can do one.I don't give a fuck about any of it.
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by eddie Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:08 pm
nicko wrote:Eddie, if you want to accuse anyone of spamming, have a look at Lurkers posts, if that's not spamming what is? I only put the "sleeping" thing after Sassys posts because she is always spamming the forum with posts about how nasty the Tory's are and what they have proposed now !As for andy's posts he can do one.I don't give a fuck about any of it.
We have been here before!!
Having particular threads where multiple posts are made on the same topic is allowed.
For example
Lurker's Donald Trump Vent thread
eddie's astrology thread
The picture post thread
Joke of the day thread
Etc etc etc.
I really hope you read that, understood it, and remember it.
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by Tommy Monk Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:11 pm
Sassy... please answer this simple question...
How can you be against privatisation as well as being in favour of the EU... when it is EU rules on public sector procurement that force them to allow private companies to bid for contracts, ie force privatisation...?
How can you be against privatisation as well as being in favour of the EU... when it is EU rules on public sector procurement that force them to allow private companies to bid for contracts, ie force privatisation...?
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by JulesV Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:26 pm
Lord Foul wrote:they could save a fortune being more selective about whats allowed as a genuine case for A&E.
times some silly berk is in there becasue they have a splinter or thorn....get a sharp needle heat it red hot in a flame let it cool and dig the bloody thing out yourself asshole.... ffs
then there are the perpetual wasters, the bingedrinkers with various damage the junkies full of shit...you wanna live like that ...then die like that, leave A&E available to those who need it. then theres the hysterical mother who's darling has fell of his trike and got gravel rash and "it might go nasty"...ffs scrub it out with salt water, clean it up and let the air get to it....it will heal
and of course the prize prat of the year...an ADULT...with both forefingers, stuck in opposite ends of one of those "push fit" plumbing fittings, I mean...I ask you????????????????????????????
that kind of idiocy should be chargeable.........
Funniest post of the day, LF.
You've given excellent examples of typical timewasters, and done so in such a humorous, hilarious way.
You gave more examples in another post, you should join both.
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by JulesV Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:44 pm
I know many people who work in A&E and they're very frustrated with timewasters.
Some young lads come in with broken metacarpals (bones in their hands) after fights, as regularly as clockwork and the sodding bone heals stronger than before!
One of the reasons for an increasingly higher workload in A&E is the fact that the population is getting top-heavy, demographically. More people are living longer and longer and of course older folk are generally more frail - heart problems, chest infections, falls, arthritis.
I know people go on about immigrants using up resources, but it's not usually A&E dept.
People who live very near A&E (short walking distance) also abuse it, they are down the hospital with their kids in tow, every 2 minutes cos it costs them nowt to travel there.
The best bits are the excuses they provided by pervs who come in with objects stuck up their butts. Every A&E medic has at least one anecdotal tale on the subject. This provides moments of light relief in a very stressful job!
Some young lads come in with broken metacarpals (bones in their hands) after fights, as regularly as clockwork and the sodding bone heals stronger than before!
One of the reasons for an increasingly higher workload in A&E is the fact that the population is getting top-heavy, demographically. More people are living longer and longer and of course older folk are generally more frail - heart problems, chest infections, falls, arthritis.
I know people go on about immigrants using up resources, but it's not usually A&E dept.
People who live very near A&E (short walking distance) also abuse it, they are down the hospital with their kids in tow, every 2 minutes cos it costs them nowt to travel there.
The best bits are the excuses they provided by pervs who come in with objects stuck up their butts. Every A&E medic has at least one anecdotal tale on the subject. This provides moments of light relief in a very stressful job!
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by Fred Moletrousers Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:51 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:Sassy... please answer this simple question...
How can you be against privatisation as well as being in favour of the EU... when it is EU rules on public sector procurement that force them to allow private companies to bid for contracts, ie force privatisation...?
Presumably, dear chap. you haven't realised that "...asking the richest in society to give just a little bit more" is going to solve all the problems of the NHS. And care of the elderly. And welfare benefits. And education. And the police and security services. And (at this point I have to admit that I nodded off......)
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by Victorismyhero Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:18 pm
Jules wrote:Lord Foul wrote:they could save a fortune being more selective about whats allowed as a genuine case for A&E.
times some silly berk is in there becasue they have a splinter or thorn....get a sharp needle heat it red hot in a flame let it cool and dig the bloody thing out yourself asshole.... ffs
then there are the perpetual wasters, the bingedrinkers with various damage the junkies full of shit...you wanna live like that ...then die like that, leave A&E available to those who need it. then theres the hysterical mother who's darling has fell of his trike and got gravel rash and "it might go nasty"...ffs scrub it out with salt water, clean it up and let the air get to it....it will heal
and of course the prize prat of the year...an ADULT...with both forefingers, stuck in opposite ends of one of those "push fit" plumbing fittings, I mean...I ask you????????????????????????????
that kind of idiocy should be chargeable.........
Funniest post of the day, LF.
You've given excellent examples of typical timewasters, and done so in such a humorous, hilarious way.
You gave more examples in another post, you should join both.
Well jules, as a self employed carpenter joiner i do on occaisions sustain the odd bit of damage.....usually I must admit down to my own stupid fault.....(I can hardly blame teh wood OR the machine can I?)
and have had the odd digit nibbled by one or other of my machines, usually due to misjudgement/lack of concentration (not NIBBLED...not EATEN....
) or indeed a handful of splinters (and I mean splinters....like matchstick size, usually due to a piece of rough wood slipping...NO...you cant/dont SHOULD NOT wear gloves whilst machining....) only a couple of times have I felt the need to attend A&E because the damage was uncertain and certainly severe enoughlast time i got out the superglue (you need balls of steel to do that ...oh man does it hurt....) and when it threatened to fester just dunked it in peroxide...(that stings a bit too....ulp...) and dressed iit with povidone iodine...I still have that digit....and it still works
SO...why do some folks attend A&E with the ridiculous scratches they do....
pffft wussies
Mind you the health people could do a lot to relieve the pressure...like taking many medicines OFF prescription...no need for some of them to be on their
all thats needed to control the inadviseable use is an initial prescription from your doc and then you register at your pharmacy and pick up as needed....
as for humerous stories anout A&E I have a stack of them
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by eddie Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:29 pm
You stuck a piece of your finger on with superglue?
That's just utter fuckeries.
That's just utter fuckeries.
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by Victorismyhero Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:34 pm
no eddie...I used superglue to seal the wound and stop it making a bloody (literally) mess everywhere and to hold it togethere so nowt would fall off during the night it seems to have worked.. 
after all its often what A&E will do nowadays....just their superglue is blue or red and called something fancy and costs a bomb....I suppose I could get some vet bond from my local vet...thats exactly the same stuff.....
after all its often what A&E will do nowadays....just their superglue is blue or red and called something fancy and costs a bomb....I suppose I could get some vet bond from my local vet...thats exactly the same stuff.....
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by eddie Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:03 am
Vic I superglued my shoe to the floor the other day - and my foot was still in it.
I pulled my foot up and a big lump of sole is stuck to my kitchen floor.
I can't get it off! Hahahahaha
I pulled my foot up and a big lump of sole is stuck to my kitchen floor.
I can't get it off! Hahahahaha
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by 'Wolfie Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:00 am
eddie wrote:
You stuck a piece of your finger on with superglue?
That's just utter fuckeries.
Further to LF's comments :
Many ambo's, emergency services, and "Remote Area first responders" will include a tube of superglue in their First Aid kits these days, for just such occasions...
Can also be used for emergency "stitches" when nothing better is available..
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by 'Wolfie Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:02 am
eddie wrote:Vic I superglued my shoe to the floor the other day - and my foot was still in it.
I pulled my foot up and a big lump of sole is stuck to my kitchen floor.
I can't get it off! Hahahahaha
Try acetone/nail polish remover...
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by Victorismyhero Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:00 am
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:eddie wrote:Vic I superglued my shoe to the floor the other day - and my foot was still in it.
I pulled my foot up and a big lump of sole is stuck to my kitchen floor.
I can't get it off! Hahahahaha
Try acetone/nail polish remover...
+1
or you can get "superglue remover"
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by HoratioTarr Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:59 am
eddie wrote:You stuck a piece of your finger on with superglue?
That's just utter fuckeries.
They used a super glue spray in Vietnam to control wound bleed.
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by Fred Moletrousers Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:58 am
Lord Foul wrote:no eddie...I used superglue to seal the wound and stop it making a bloody (literally) mess everywhere and to hold it togethere so nowt would fall off during the night it seems to have worked..
after all its often what A&E will do nowadays....just their superglue is blue or red and called something fancy and costs a bomb....I suppose I could get some vet bond from my local vet...thats exactly the same stuff.....
Superglue from the vet, LF? You must be barking mad.
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by eddie Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:56 pm
Lord Foul wrote:WhoseYourWolfie wrote:eddie wrote:Vic I superglued my shoe to the floor the other day - and my foot was still in it.
I pulled my foot up and a big lump of sole is stuck to my kitchen floor.
I can't get it off! Hahahahaha
Try acetone/nail polish remover...
+1
or you can get "superglue remover"
Thank you both. Okay I'll try both those. At the moment I have a big black lump of sole stuck on my kitchen floor which I keep hacking at with a knife.
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by The Devil, You Know Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:46 pm
the privatisation of the NHS is presumably referring to virgin care taking over some responsibilites. Virgin care became involved with the NHS in 2006.sassy wrote:When you are dealing with a problem it’s not a bad idea to ask what would a solution look like. Going through a tough time; ask what ‘when it’s over, what will it look like’.
The terror-crisis; what will it look like when it’s over? Three thousand people interned, armed lollipop ladies and a McDonald’s in Raqqa High Street? What does over-and-done-with look like?
When we can say it’s finished; what can we expect? A truly multi-cultural, secular society. How far away is it and how do we get there?
It’s a question we need to ask ourselves about the NHS. When the present austerity is over, what can we expect. What will it look like.
A medicine cabinet and a self-care App distributed to every household or a leaner, more efficient health service with consistent outcomes and every one paying the right price for a bog-roll? Maybe!
The HSJ are providing us with a glimpse of what the future might look like. They have published a leak. It is interesting it has appeared 72 hours before we go to the polls.
This is a well-timed leak. An Exocet of a leak. A leak designed to do maximum damage. It shows us what the NHS will look like.
It reveals the little known ‘capped expenditure process’. The process designed to ensure this year’s expenditure targets are met. How to do that?
You can be more efficient, change skill-mix. Squeeze the pips. Might work but there is only one guaranteed way to do it; stop doing things and hire fewer people.
Bright ideas included in the leaked document are:
>> Dumping the NHS Constitution; extending waiting times.
>> Ending outsourcing contracts.
>> Closing theatres and wards and cutting staff.
>> Focussing on the ‘winter response’.
>> Dumping NICE recommendations for adopting new stuff and stop funding ‘low-value’ treatments.
>> Closing or downgrading A&E and maternity services; circling the wagons.
>> Crossing items off the prescription lists.
>> Flogging-off bits of the estate.
Paul Baumann and surprisingly, Bob Alexander are fingered… leading the work to find things to cut.
Apparently, they had hoped to keep the news hush-hush until after the election. If there wasn't so much other news this would certainly be headlining the 6 o’clock.
Let me confide in you; a week ago I had wind of this but dismissed it as election mischief. Now, I have no doubt it is true.
How should we look a this? I think there is only one way.
Health managers are being driven into a corner. There is not enough money in the system to deliver what is being asked of it. Framing a bleak future, as part of an incoming Minister’s induction pack, is a cunning plan!
Set the predicament against election promises and you don’t get very far. Pledges of post-election funding go nowhere near repairing the damage that has been done by seven years of austerity.
Undoubtedly, the NHS can be more efficient at being effective. The difficulty is, it will require innovation, which carries a risk and investment for which there is no funding.
Buying cheaper bog-rolls, flogging-off bits of the estate, making sure assets are sweated and regarding variation as the enemy of quality… is all good stuff… at any time. Let’s do it. But, let’s not do it with any expectation that it is going to be a game changer.
When any document is leaked, any secret made public, you have to ask why. I don’t think you need me to spell this out!
A bigger question; is this part of the journey or is this what the end looks like?
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Is-this-what-the-end-looks-like-.html?soid=1102665899193&aid=lkL8nEEVnTU
Exclusive: New national savings drive will 'challenge the values' of NHS leaders
5 June, 2017 By Dave West, Ben Clover, Lawrence Dunhill, Allison Coggan
Closing wards and services, blocking choice of private providers, systematically extending waiting times, and stopping some treatments are all being considered under a national programme targeted at the health economies with the highest overspends.
More, so, so much more at:
https://www.hsj.co.uk/7018461.article?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter307&mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTmpka01qTTBNamRrTm1OayIsInQiOiI1SFR1K2FsQkRPQjBFd0J1azFWRTY0bWhNZUR3WUlNbys4aWc0UlprdXYyYkZ3NTlzV0VPVnFCMEQ0N3RvaGNEM2pxMnFhRXRRbFhtQVwvcUtDZjgyMFpYS1lXUm1OdWJaZVZsY3RQTlZiUGdcL21kV2RWT20zZFpxSEoxNytGbXk2In0
That's the site 'For Healthcare Leaders' by the way.
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by The Devil, You Know Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:48 pm
the NHS are so badly treated by the tories that they are funding it to the tune of 1/2 a trillion pounds in the 5 years to 2020Fred Moletrousers wrote:No-one on this forum respects and cherishes the NHS more than I do. Its doctors and nurses gave me a few precious additional months with my late wife, and it's only thanks to the skills of cardiac consultants that make it possible for me to be having my two pennyworth of chuntering on this forum at this very moment.
But anyone who cannot recognise and accept that the huge cost of adopting and exploiting the latest advances in medicine and associated techology in the interests of the sheer numbers of additional patients that are now having to be accommodated at GP surgeries, A&E and clinical wards simply cannot continue being financed through general taxation really needs to undertake a reality check.
Taxation, even on the so-called megarich, is never in a million years going to pay for all that is needed now - and even less so in the future. The skills, research facilities, entrepreneurship, enterprise and innovation - and financial resources - that the private sector is able to offer simply cannot be rejected on the grounds of this utterly ridiculous moral aversion to the so-called "privatisation" of healthcare.
Frankly, if Heart Valve Widget Inc. can help to give me a few more years before my ancient blood pump fails completely, I for one will be eternally grateful...even if the board of directors manage to pay shareholders a few extra quid in dividends in exchange for achieving it.
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by The Devil, You Know Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:51 pm
whilst making it harder for those rich people to take the burden off the NHS by using private health care.Fred Moletrousers wrote:Tommy Monk wrote:Sassy... please answer this simple question...
How can you be against privatisation as well as being in favour of the EU... when it is EU rules on public sector procurement that force them to allow private companies to bid for contracts, ie force privatisation...?
Presumably, dear chap. you haven't realised that "...asking the richest in society to give just a little bit more" is going to solve all the problems of the NHS. And care of the elderly. And welfare benefits. And education. And the police and security services. And (at this point I have to admit that I nodded off......)
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Re: How they will dismantle the NHS, by the people who will be doing it.
by Victorismyhero Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:17 pm
Fred Moletrousers wrote:Lord Foul wrote:no eddie...I used superglue to seal the wound and stop it making a bloody (literally) mess everywhere and to hold it togethere so nowt would fall off during the night it seems to have worked..
after all its often what A&E will do nowadays....just their superglue is blue or red and called something fancy and costs a bomb....I suppose I could get some vet bond from my local vet...thats exactly the same stuff.....
Superglue from the vet, LF? You must be barking mad.
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