DWP Says Almost One Million Sick Found Fit For Work

Yes how true including some on here!
One million for goodness sake. The drones on here suggested a handful its a bloody big hand that can hold 1 million.

The savings will be enormous.

Both "sides" on this hold inaccurate views.

The system is far from fixed and it should not be acceptable.

The theory is good - the practice not.

Yes but what practice is Sphinx?
Do Doctors get every diagnoses right?
Of course not and hence why there is so many malpractice cases.

So nothing is ever perfect but humans are flawed in that they mistakes, it does not mean we should not attempt to see if people are actually fit for work

PhilDidge wrote:Yes but what practice is Sphinx?
Do Doctors get every diagnoses right?
Of course not and hence why there is so many malpractice cases.

So nothing is ever perfect but humans are flawed in that they mistakes, it does not mean we should not attempt to see if people are actually fit for work

Oh hell.

I did not want to get into this because I am going to get crucified by both sides for "sticking up" for the other or "failing to defend" them.

I will post honestly and people will not believe but fuck it.

The practice of assessing people for ESA - the living cost benefit for people unable to work due to illness or disability - is nothing to do with with diagnosis. It is not a "medical" and is not called one. It will probably not be carried out by a doctor - it certainly will not be carried out by a specialist.

The system at the moment has doctors who have little training in the effect of illness/disability on function and so frequently do not provide the correct evidence necessary while at the time assessors often have little training in the specific effects of many diagnoses and so frequently underestimate the impacts while in the middle you have the people being assessed who are subjected to a system that is so ringed with anti fraud devices that anyone who does not understand it is at high risk of an incorrect decision.

I never said it was Sphinx but people perceive that it should be.

The reality is many people with disabilities can work and what is needed is more support that they are able to work

Absolutely - and I am vocal calling for proper government support for that.

The fact is the system at the moment does not work as it should while people seem to split into those that declare it proves people are scamming (it doesnt) and those who declare it is deliberately cruel and unfair (it is not deliberately).

The practice of signing people of on disability in fairness began 3 decades ago. Doctors did it when unemployment was high.

The ststem has been abused for years. I have acutely high blood pressure if I was so inclined I bet I could have wangled something.

I am however not a benefits cheat so haven't even thought about doing.

There are many thousands more still claiming who could work.

Clarkson wrote:The practice of signing people of on disability in fairness began 3 decades ago. Doctors did it when unemployment was high.

The ststem has been abused for years. I have acutely high blood pressure if I was so inclined I bet I could have wangled something.

I am however not a benefits cheat so haven't even thought about doing.

There are many thousands more still claiming who could work.

Are you happy for people to be compelled to work knowing it can make their health worse?

You are free to choose to work knowing the effort and stress may make your blood pressure worse and result in a stroke or heart attack.

Should the state be able compel you to do that?

Most people win on appeal, which shows that ATOS isn't fit for purpose.

sphinx wrote:

Clarkson wrote:The practice of signing people of on disability in fairness began 3 decades ago. Doctors did it when unemployment was high.

The ststem has been abused for years. I have acutely high blood pressure if I was so inclined I bet I could have wangled something.

I am however not a benefits cheat so haven't even thought about doing.

There are many thousands more still claiming who could work.

Are you happy for people to be compelled to work knowing it can make their health worse?

You are free to choose to work knowing the effort and stress may make your blood pressure worse and result in a stroke or heart attack.





Should the state be able compel you to do that?

Sorry that is a limited counter, as where do you draw the line?

Have no checks or have checks?

It is one or the other!

PhilDidge wrote:

sphinx wrote:

Are you happy for people to be compelled to work knowing it can make their health worse?

You are free to choose to work knowing the effort and stress may make your blood pressure worse and result in a stroke or heart attack.





Should the state be able compel you to do that?

Sorry that is a limited counter, as where do you draw the line?

Have no checks or have checks?

It is one or the other!

No you misunderstand me.

Drinky was using the argument that as he does not claim although he may be entitled to it should equate to people like him not being entitled.

I was trying to counter that. Any sick or disabled person may at any point choose to engage in an activity or work knowing it is harmful to them because of their illness/disability - should the government be able to force people to do so?

You have 2 farmers with arthritis - one wishes to continue farming even though it makes his condition worse, the other wishes to stop because it improves his condition. At the moment the one who wishes to stop is entitled to claim ESA because doing his job makes his condition worse - Should that change and entitlement be withdrawn because others choose to make their condition worse by continuing to work?

Clarkson wrote:
Yes how true including some on here!

One million for goodness sake. The drones on here suggested a handful its a bloody big hand that can hold 1 million.

The savings will be enormous.

  

YOU really are such an arsehole, Drinky !!!

WHERE are those claimed "million" suitable jobs for those on disability pensions supposed to be hiding, you lying dickhead ?

BEFORE you abuse people that you continue to so falsely malign, Drinky ~ why CAN'T you tell us where those mythical jobs have been hiding for the past few years..

OH, that's right ~ you can't, can you, you :::hitler: supercilious and empty verminous little creature !   

A million?

That's a lot, even if some win appeals!

Thank god for the Conservatives.

sphinx wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:

Sorry that is a limited counter, as where do you draw the line?

Have no checks or have checks?

It is one or the other!

No you misunderstand me.

Drinky was using the argument that as he does not claim although he may be entitled to it should equate to people like him not being entitled.

I was trying to counter that.  Any sick or disabled person may at any point choose to engage in an activity or work knowing it is harmful to them because of their illness/disability - should the government be able to force people to do so?

You have 2 farmers with arthritis - one wishes to continue farming even though it makes his condition worse, the other wishes to stop because it improves his condition.  At the moment the one who wishes to stop is entitled to claim ESA because doing his job makes his condition worse - Should that change and entitlement be withdrawn because others choose to make their condition worse by continuing to work?

The Government can't force anyone to work, it can refuse to pay benefits to those who are not entitled though.  Farmer A who chooses to stop should surely find alternative work which doesn't affect his condition? As for Farmer B, I guess it's his own personal choice; people can have similar conditions but be affected differently, have different tolerance levels.  There are many factors to consider

PhilDidge wrote:Almost a million people who applied for sickness benefit have instead been found fit for work, according to figures published today.
A third (32%) of all new claimants for employment and support allowance (ESA) were assessed as being fit to work and capable of employment between October 2008 and March 2013 - totalling 980,400 people, the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) said.
More than a million others withdrew their claims before reaching a face-to-face assessment - this can be because of individuals recovering and either returning to work, or claiming a benefit more appropriate to their situation.
A DWP spokesman said that reforming the benefits system is a key part of the Government's long-term economic plan to build a stronger economy.
ESA ensures support is provided for those unable to work while those declared fit are given help to find employment, he added.
Under the old system, 2.6 million people were on the old-style incapacity benefits when ESA was introduced in 2008.
In August 2010, 900,000 had been claiming the sickness benefit for more than a decade.
Minister of State for Disabled People Mike Penning said: "As part of the Government's long-term economic plan, it is only fair that we look at whether people can do some kind of work with the right support - rather than just writing them off on long-term sickness benefits, as has happened in the past.
"With the right support, many people with an illness, health condition or disability can still fulfil their aspiration to get or stay in work, allowing them to provide for themselves and their family."
The employment rate for disabled people has increased gradually over the years to 45%, the spokesman said.
A decision on whether someone is well enough to work is taken by DWP decisionmakers based on all of the available evidence.
Many claimants will be assessed by an independent health professional as part of the process. All the supporting medical evidence from GPs and specialists is taken into account.
ESA is an income replacement benefit provided to people of working age who are too ill to work because of a health condition or disability.
Some 2.49 million people were on ESA and old-style incapacity benefits as of May 2013.
ESA replaced incapacity benefit, income support and severe disablement allowance for new claimants from October 2008.
Richard Hawkes, chief executive of the disability charity Scope, said the work capability assessment (WCA) should be more than an exercise in getting people off benefits.
He said: "The fit for work results are only half the story.
"We should be talking about getting a million more disabled people into work.
"Disabled people are pushing hard to find jobs and get on in the workplace. Nine in 10 disabled people work or have worked. Yet only about 50% of disabled people have a job right now.
"They face massive challenges when it comes to finding and staying in work.
"The WCA should be more than an exercise in getting people off benefits. It should make sure disabled people get the specialist, tailored and flexible support they need to find and keep a job.
"We need to make sure that as the economy picks up disabled people are not left behind. We've got to start by supporting more disabled people to find and stay in work."

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/25/dwp-sick-benefits_n_4664066.html?utm_hp_ref=uk




Proof in the pudding the system is working, yes mistakes have been made and corrected also but you cannot discount this amount of people fit for work, with claims they cannot work

New claimants...Meh, certainly in keeping with economic times in the past five years. (Of course, those who withdrew their claims should not be counted...they found work.) So, this is in effect a devastating criticism of the Conservative government. Here, we have talented, able-bodied people enthusiastically willing to work, and the government cannot provide them with gainful employment. How come the RW always fails?

As far as the EDA component, this looks like merely the same right wing hatchet job. The WCA standards are political rhetoric. Look at what they measure: "Whether people can do some kind of work with the right support..." Some kind of work? "With the right support?" Can't they decide? If they were not a fraud, what we would have is yet another bureaucracy to determine what kind of work, what is the right support, and who should be included? Ridiculous.

Tories, like Republicans, are the party of rhetoric, not programs. They belong back in the stone age.

Does it say how many of those decisions were overturned?

BigAndy9 wrote:A million?

That's a lot, even if some win appeals!

Thank god for the Conservatives.

Not much...when you consider it includes unemployment.  What do you think has been happening in the last five years, andy?  The unemployment rate has only just gotten below 7% in the past year in America.  In the UK, it's still above.

Conservatives?  They caused this near depression by deregulating banking and opening up mortgages to the derivatives market.  Throw in a good, wasteful war--that costs some $4.5-trillion over here--and we've got a fun, new game.  

feelthelove wrote:

sphinx wrote:

No you misunderstand me.

Drinky was using the argument that as he does not claim although he may be entitled to it should equate to people like him not being entitled.

I was trying to counter that.  Any sick or disabled person may at any point choose to engage in an activity or work knowing it is harmful to them because of their illness/disability - should the government be able to force people to do so?

You have 2 farmers with arthritis - one wishes to continue farming even though it makes his condition worse, the other wishes to stop because it improves his condition.  At the moment the one who wishes to stop is entitled to claim ESA because doing his job makes his condition worse - Should that change and entitlement be withdrawn because others choose to make their condition worse by continuing to work?

The Government can't force anyone to work, it can refuse to pay benefits to those who are not entitled though.  Farmer A who chooses to stop should surely find alternative work which doesn't affect his condition? As for Farmer B, I guess it's his own personal choice; people can have similar conditions but be affected differently, have different tolerance levels.  There are many factors to consider

Take everything being equal should the willingness of one person to suffer allow the government to force others to suffer to the same extent?

Original Quill wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:A million?

That's a lot, even if some win appeals!

Thank god for the Conservatives.

Not much...when you consider it includes unemployment.  What do you think has been happening in the last five years, andy?  The unemployment rate has only just gotten below 7% in the past year in America.  In the UK, it's still above.

Conservatives?  They caused this near depression by deregulating banking and opening up mortgages to the derivatives market.  Throw in a good, wasteful war--that costs some $4.5-trillion over here--and we've got a fun, new game.  

Our unemployment has just hit 7.1% - not exactly a huge gap.

Meanwhile the non conservative government of France using the exact polices advocated by Labour/socialists/lefties is running at 10.8%.

And growing Sphinx. France is in steep decline using the very policies Labour want.

Only the gormless want them.

We could add two more back to work Doug who is fit enough to beat p Scatman and Scatman himself.

sphinx wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Not much...when you consider it includes unemployment.  What do you think has been happening in the last five years, andy?  The unemployment rate has only just gotten below 7% in the past year in America.  In the UK, it's still above.

Conservatives?  They caused this near depression by deregulating banking and opening up mortgages to the derivatives market.  Throw in a good, wasteful war--that costs some $4.5-trillion over here--and we've got a fun, new game.  

Our unemployment has just hit 7.1% - not exactly a huge gap.

Meanwhile the non conservative government of France using the exact polices advocated by Labour/socialists/lefties is running at 10.8%.

But you can't ignore the trends. Under a Democratic administration here, the clear unemployment trend is downward. Over there, upward or static. Who cares what France is doing...Y'all British can't break 7%. That's bad.

Original Quill wrote:

sphinx wrote:

Our unemployment has just hit 7.1% - not exactly a huge gap.

Meanwhile the non conservative government of France using the exact polices advocated by Labour/socialists/lefties is running at 10.8%.

But you can't ignore the trends.  Under a Democratic administration here, the clear unemployment trend is downward.  Over there, upward or static.  Who cares what France is doing...Y'all British can't break 7%.  That's bad.

Actually our trend is very firmly down having recently shown the biggest drop in years but never mind.

What I am trying to get you to see is comparing your left and right with our left and right is pointless because they do not mean the same thing. France is relevant because it is very definitely left and is a perfect demonstration of why left does not work.

Who said we cannot break 7%? The experts 4 months ago were saying it would take us at least 2 years probably longer and we very nearly achieved it 4 months - it is certainly going to take us less than 6 months.

American modesty at its best.

There is a huge difference between our unemployment figures and those of France.

The point is theirs are going rapidly in the wrong direction and ours in the right.

BE in denial all you like comrades facts are facts.

As to too many being on sickness benefits the figures speak for themselves.

The point about my blood pressure sphinx was meant to illustrate a point had I been crafty enough I could hsve used it to bad effect. I wasnt and didnt and am still here at 57 firing on all cylinders.
Finally bees pathetic outburst in this country we imported millions of souls from abroad when lazy socilist like scatman feigned false reasons to stay at home. There were jobs we filled them with foreigners. You truly are a donk.
The left defend the indefensible for reasons I cannot fathom.

Clarkson wrote:There is a huge difference between our unemployment figures and those of France.

The point is theirs are going rapidly in the wrong direction and ours in the right.

BE in denial all you like comrades facts are facts.

As to too many being on sickness benefits the figures speak for themselves.

The point about my blood pressure sphinx was meant to illustrate a point had I been crafty enough I could hsve used it to bad effect. I wasnt and didnt and am still here at 57 firing on all cylinders.
Finally bees pathetic outburst in this country we imported millions of souls from abroad when lazy socilist like scatman feigned false reasons to stay at home. There were jobs we filled them with foreigners. You truly are a donk.
The left defend the indefensible for reasons I cannot fathom.

So you are saying that others with the same blood pressure as yourself should be forced to continue working on the grounds that you manage it.

I was using my own condition as an illustration and postulating that had I been that way inclined I might have achieved access to benefits.

My point is Sphinx I wouldn't have been worthy of them because my condition is controlled by medication and when it isn't it makes no difference whether I am working or not. I can have incidence of acute high BP when lay down doing nothing.

Doctors have signed people off for an easy life. I believe that benefits should be regularly reviewed in all but exceptional circumstances.

Clarkson wrote:
.......................................................

You truly are a donk.

The left defend the indefensible for reasons I cannot fathom.

  

The word "Donk" over here in Australia means an Engine or Motor...
AS Veya should be able to confirm for everyone on here..

As in: "What size donk does your car have ?"

IT is also occasionally used for added sound effects in comics and on old Batman TV shows, when someone is 'donked' on the head..

ONCE again, Drinky shows just what an utterly ignorant and gormless fool he truly is !!!      

NOT satisfied with lying through his teeth with regards to unemployment levels in Britain nearly every time he comes on here lately; for the last couple of years he has insisted on calling me "Engine or Motor" as his pet rude_name for me ~ presumably as SOME form of insult !

THOUGH for the life of me, it is STILL inexplicable just how he actually thinks he is abusing me by calling me an engine ???

SUCH a very odd and sad little man, indeed !  

Well over here those of us who have seen Crocodile Dundee know it as the guy who is his mate and has an IQ of 6 and a cranium of 6 inches thickness.

That's you cobber.

Trouble is Donk you are actually proud of being a Donk!!! :D :D 

would wanker be more suitable?

nicko wrote:would wanker be more suitable?

I suspect wanking might prove too complicated for Donk.

Clarkson wrote:I was using my own condition as an illustration and postulating that had I been that way inclined I might have achieved access to benefits.

My point is Sphinx I wouldn't have been worthy of them because my condition is controlled by medication and when it isn't it makes no difference whether I am working or not. I can have incidence of acute high BP when lay down doing nothing.

Doctors have signed people off for an easy life. I believe that benefits should be regularly reviewed in all but exceptional circumstances.

So your deserving of benefits but nobody else is?

You really should stop the hate and thing to dictate who people vote for Drinky, if they vote labour , then they do...for good reasons.

Now stop all this shite and hate, your like a spoiled wee schoolboy.

Clarkson wrote:
Well over here those of us who have seen Crocodile Dundee know it as the guy who is his mate and has an IQ of 6 and a cranium of 6 inches thickness.

That's you cobber.

Trouble is Donk you are actually proud of being a Donk!!! :D :D

 

  

HAVING seen all three Crocodile Dundee movies, I can only repeat that YOU have no idea of what you speak...

AND I still have yet to see anyone stand up to support your misinterpretation, Drinky !

HAVING already explained to you what the word means several times over, you would seem to be the much thicker head on here..

nicko wrote:
would wanker be more suitable?

  

AND in your case, you senile old wastrel, I consider YOU to be no better than a worthless and doubly ignorant old dickhead..

oohh get her.

Joy Division wrote:

Clarkson wrote:I was using my own condition as an illustration and postulating that had I been that way inclined I might have achieved access to benefits.

My point is Sphinx I wouldn't have been worthy of them because my condition is controlled by medication and when it isn't it makes no difference whether I am working or not. I can have incidence of acute high BP when lay down doing nothing.

Doctors have signed people off for an easy life. I believe that benefits should be regularly reviewed in all but exceptional circumstances.

So your deserving of benefits but nobody else is?

You really should stop the hate and thing to dictate who people vote for Drinky, if they vote labour , then they do...for good reasons.

Now stop all this shite and hate, your like a spoiled wee schoolboy.

No JD he is saying he does not deserve benefits so that means neither do others.

Thanks for joining the dots for JD.

JD I is galling to pay as much tax as my Mrs and I have especially my Mrs to have it given to fraudsters like Scatman.

Until recently I thought he was genuine little slips he has made recently has uncovered his subterfuge

I will guarantee you know a benefit fraudster. Unless you move in rarified circles and I know you don't everyone knows someone who is a lead swinger.

To deny they exist vehemently simply demonstrates you are beig disingenuous.

Clarkson wrote:Thanks for joining the dots for JD.

JD I is galling to pay as much tax as my Mrs and I have especially my Mrs to have it given to fraudsters like Scatman.

Until recently I thought he was genuine little slips he has made recently has uncovered his subterfuge

I will guarantee you know a benefit fraudster. Unless you move in rarified circles and I know you don't everyone knows someone who is a lead swinger.

To deny they exist vehemently simply demonstrates you are beig disingenuous.

Do not for one minute think I am totally in agreement with you

As far as philagain goes I am in total disagreement with you.

Doug was moved from the support group into the WRAG today.

...Nothing has changed with regard to his condition, it's got worse since his last assessment, they had his consultant reports...all no no avail.

...The job centre from here, that is two buses away...He can't walk for more than two minutes or so, without being in pain...they couldn't give a shit....I have to push him about in a wheelchair.

So...Who is going to push him to the job centre?

So..we go to appeal, takes a year, but he still has to attend the job centre.

Doesn't take a moron to work the situation out does it?

..Family have promised to off set the sanctions.

Will be music to the ears to some RW cretins on here.

What's that?

Sorry to hear that Phil. Do they think someone is going to perform a miracle on him? Idiots.

Catman wrote:Doug was moved from the support group into the WRAG today.

...Nothing has changed with regard to his condition, it's got worse since his last assessment, they had his consultant reports...all no no avail.

...The job centre from here, that is two buses away...He can't walk for more than two minutes or so, without being in pain...they couldn't give a shit....I have to push him about in a wheelchair.

So...Who is going to push him to the job centre?

So..we go to appeal, takes a year, but he still has to attend the job centre.

Doesn't take a moron to work the situation out does it?

..Family have promised to off set the sanctions.

Sorry Phil, I read back and saw this. It's unbelievable    surely the DWP aren't that heartless are they? I'd write to the local MP to raise your concerns.

Warren Moon wrote:

Catman wrote:Doug was moved from the support group into the WRAG today.

...Nothing has changed with regard to his condition, it's got worse since his last assessment, they had his consultant reports...all no no avail.

...The job centre from here, that is two buses away...He can't walk for more than two minutes or so, without being in pain...they couldn't give a shit....I have to push him about in a wheelchair.

So...Who is going to push him to the job centre?

So..we go to appeal, takes a year, but he still has to attend the job centre.

Doesn't take a moron to work the situation out does it?

..Family have promised to off set the sanctions.

Sorry Phil, I read back and saw this.  It's unbelievable    surely the DWP aren't that heartless are they?  I'd write to the local MP to raise your concerns.

People who work in ATOS have leaked that they have a target for reducing benefits, even when people meet the criteria. Then they hope that the fact you don't get anything while you appeal will stop you appealing. There have been so many deaths because of this, its disgusting.

Warren Moon wrote:

Catman wrote:Doug was moved from the support group into the WRAG today.

...Nothing has changed with regard to his condition, it's got worse since his last assessment, they had his consultant reports...all no no avail.

...The job centre from here, that is two buses away...He can't walk for more than two minutes or so, without being in pain...they couldn't give a shit....I have to push him about in a wheelchair.

So...Who is going to push him to the job centre?

So..we go to appeal, takes a year, but he still has to attend the job centre.

Doesn't take a moron to work the situation out does it?

..Family have promised to off set the sanctions.

Sorry Phil, I read back and saw this.  It's unbelievable    surely the DWP aren't that heartless are they?  I'd write to the local MP to raise your concerns.

LOL

That's what my brother said, a couple of hours ago.

BTW, if Drinky thinks very high blood pressure would mean that he could get a benefit, he is living in cloud cuckoo land, there are people who have had strokes with brain damage and have lost the use of their arms etc who are being told they can go back to work.

Sassy wrote:

Warren Moon wrote:


Sorry Phil, I read back and saw this.  It's unbelievable    surely the DWP aren't that heartless are they?  I'd write to the local MP to raise your concerns.

People who work in ATOS have leaked that they have a target for reducing benefits, even when people meet the criteria.   Then they hope that the fact you don't get anything while you appeal will stop you appealing.   There have been so many deaths because of this, its disgusting.

Exactly!

Doug would definitely win an appeal, where ATOS isn't involved.

They have to back date the money, when an appeal is won...They hope that people will die before they get to appeal.

How is the job search going phil me old fraudster?

The thing is sassy I would never know because I worked for just short of 40 years.

Moreover I had very little time of sick and my wife hasnt had a day off sick since she started work.

We dont do lead swinging we leave that to you experts. White Dee btw is she related to you?

Sassy wrote:BTW, if Drinky thinks very high blood pressure would mean that he could get a benefit, he is living in cloud cuckoo land, there are people who have had strokes with brain damage and have lost the use of their arms etc who are being told they can go back to work.

It's fucking disgusting.

Must piss him off no end, to know that some of the poor, sick and disabled...They won't be going to their graves so easily!

They think that some of the 'peasants' don't have friends in high places!

  

....Of course something has to be done about unscroupulous private landords, and if you are eventually in a position to provide decent accommodation, then you should use some of that wealth to expose these idiots for what they are.