Happy Martin Luther King Day

veya_victaous wrote:we have strived to become as close to MLKs dream as we can, yes we can still improve but we seem closer than almost anyone else, his dream just went straight in the Cultural 'bank' it was so fitting with the long held Aussie Ideal of 'Fair go mate'.

Australia is a nation with a Racist history desperately trying not to have a racist future.

You may do. That does not mean other Australians do or the wrongs they have done to people
You are a poor apologist and try to blame things on the British which Australians did themselves

I am glad it is not trying to have a racist future, that does not mean you can wrongly judge others with racism by doing this

veya_victaous wrote:it not about being best it is the fact that it is racist, the image Thorin presents is like the worst forms of Black face
Pretending a oppressed people (in this case the convicts) enjoyed it, or should be grateful etc.
We are NOT the image in his propaganda and the fact our skin is mainly white doesn't make it any less racist.  

I don't think Brits Really appreciate how offensive they can be. you guys might see the union jack as something to be proud of but for us it is a reminder of the invasion and oppression of peoples we now count as ourselves. (let alone so many of us have come and intermarried in the last 60 years from other nations and cultures, that the British elements are greatly diluted)

I feel more connected to the Aboriginal culture than British. I have never been to Britain. Aboriginal culture is about connection to the land, And I feel connected to no other lands than Australia.

AND more Aboriginals are closer to white than black today, that is just the reality of interbreeding because WE ARE NOT SEPERATE PEOPLES.

Cant be that offensive to people when its still very much a part of your flag

You see, all you are doing Veya, is giving your skewed view that claims anything is racist and now a flag is racist because its the British flag, that is just ridiculous and what the left demean a flag because they wrongly associate it with racism etc.

You forget this flag also was a symbol during WW2 for example to fight against two evils, Germany and Japan.

So many Brits are proud of the flag and many Australians are too, hence why our Queen is still your Queen also. You may not like that, but that is your tough luck and it does not give you the right to carpet brush everyone as racist for being proud to be British

We all have wrongs in our history, but for you to constantly scream and call people racist demeans the term racist, making it useless.

It is Offensive we are working to remove it and replace it with the aboriginal flag !!!!!
it has been going on MY whole Life 33 years the Current PM lead the last attempt to become a republic !!! We DONT love the Queen!!!
It is HUGELY divisive issue Which is Why YOU ARE A RACIST to even suggest Aussies like it!!
it's like saying a few Blacks got on with their masters therefore Blacks Loved slavery!!!

The Rest is Shit, YOU DO NOT SPEAK For Aussies at all.
You have no fucking clue
We regard the fact we fought under the US flag in WW2 anyway

YOU ARE RACIST!
YOU are not like Nicko, He is proud to be British, But Doesn't try and TELL Aussies We should be proud of being British!!
that is a HUGE Fucking difference!!!

The FACT we still have it Disgracing our flag IS THE FUCKING ISSUE it is literally what Aboriginal recognition advocates are campaigning to Change !!
SO Stop Telling us we are with you, about half of us DESPERATELY want to fuck off every remnant of 'britishness' and embrace OUR culture which started 50,000 years ago with the Aboriginals, the Whole Commonwealth of Australia and the British Colonies before that will be Written as an Invasion that was eventually overthrown. We are close BUT like I said While we don't have OUR own flag and just have the 'slave' flag of a colony we have NOT achieved Independence for our Nation and peoples.

From 2013, calling for it !!!
http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/news-events/all-stories/anu-academic-proposes-new-australian-flag

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Australian_Flag_with_Aboriginal_Flag.svg



The most common Agreed Upon flag that we are campaigning to change to

LIKE I SAID nothing has been like the Bullshit propaganda you promote since MLK and Vincent Lingiari

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Lingiari

veya_victaous wrote:It is Offensive we are working to remove it and replace it with the aboriginal flag !!!!!
it has been going on MY whole Life 33 years the Current PM lead the last attempt to become a republic !!! We DONT love the Queen!!!
It is HUGELY divisive issue Which is Why YOU ARE A RACIST to even suggest Aussies like it!!
it's like saying a few Blacks got on with their masters therefore Blacks Loved slavery!!!

The Rest is Shit, YOU DO NOT SPEAK For Aussies at all.
You have no fucking clue
We regard the fact we fought under the US flag in WW2 anyway

YOU ARE RACIST!
YOU are not like Nicko, He is proud to be British, But Doesn't try and TELL Aussies We should be proud of being British!!
that is a HUGE Fucking difference!!!

The FACT we still have it Disgracing our flag IS THE FUCKING ISSUE it is literally what Aboriginal recognition advocates are campaigning to Change !!
SO Stop Telling us we are with you, about half of us DESPERATELY want to fuck off every remnant of 'britishness' and embrace OUR culture which started 50,000 years ago with the Aboriginals, the Whole Commonwealth of Australia and the British Colonies before that will be Written as an Invasion that was eventually overthrown. We are close BUT like I said While we don't have OUR own flag and just have the 'slave' flag of a colony we have NOT achieved Independence for our Nation and peoples.

From 2013, calling for it !!!
http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/news-events/all-stories/anu-academic-proposes-new-australian-flag

We?

No some of you claim its offensive and fail to reason why it is.
By saying its offensives is being racist because you are saying the Brits are offensive.
That is fundamentally what you are saying
No country in the world has deemed the British flag as offensive

Here we go again, scream and swear I am racist, when I am proud of my Maltese, Sicillian and Irish ethnicity as well as being proud to be English and British, which renders your racist claim to be a poor deflection and falsehood. Both my families fought in WW2, for countries they never lived in. My Grandfather receiving the George Cross, as well as all the Maltese islanders, all of which are proud of this award.

So you can keep screaming racist and ignore other Australians, that does not change anything, but to call me is racist is effectively calling my family racist, who fought against the Nazi's, the IRA. So thanks for that.
You have no idea what my family has done for this country and so you deflect further from the point and wrongly again think you speak for all Australians

You do not

Australia and its symbols When asked about their level of pride in Australia, 39% of Australians said they were very proud and that hadn’t changed, 31% said they were proud and getting prouder, and 23% indicated that while proud, they were less proud than they used to be. The Australian flag has the nation’s vote for being the image or symbol about which we are most proud. 95% of Australians take pride in the national flag, which is enjoying increasing popularity, with half (50%) saying that they are extremely proud. Almost 7 in 10 Australians (68%) are proud of the Aboriginal flag, with the Eureka flag eliciting the mixed response with 1 in 10 (10%) being extremely proud while 1 in 3 (35%) are uncomfortable with its use.

http://mccrindle.com.au/ResearchSummaries/2013/Aussie-Pride-Australia-Day-2013_McCrindle-Research.pdf

Which dispels Veya, your false claim and unfounded claim of racism
They are (Aussies) and can be equally proud of both flags

I never once claimed I do speak for Australians, nor have I told them what to do.
Yet again a complete invention and fabrication on your part Veya

That happens to be you when you who claims to speak for Australians, when you use the collective "we"
What I am rightly saying is you are offering up a false picture of Australians, when as seen the majority of Australians are proud of both flags. One of those flags, has the union jack within it. Thus clearly the vast majority of Australians do not deem it racist and are in fact very proud of it.

Also if you want to, as you say "fuck off" every element of Britishness. Are you going to invent a new language? As the language of your nation is English, very much associated with the British. Not only that, any place names will have to change, among many things. If you really want to disassociate. I very much doubt you will find many Aussies in agreement with you on that.

Also how are you advocating MLK, where he states all people should be treated equally, when you clearly do not treat the British equally? I think all people should be treated equally under the law. Is hating the British not insulting the memory of MLK?

Your ongoing revisionist arguments fall apart right there, dodgery Thorin, old chum...


Veya doesn't doesn't "hate" the British, per se..

He simply despises and derides "hill shepherds", racists and bigots wherever he sees them  !


As for pointing out British empirical wrongdoings across their former colonies over rhe previous four centuries -- it is beyond ludicrous to see you continuously and fallaciously attempting to excuse British behaviour, while trying to shift blame for those crimes onto today's generations..

Any Australian, Kiwi, American, Canadian, Indian, or citizen of any other former colony who is silly enough as to agree with your position and radical agendas, would certainly need their head read....

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Your ongoing revisionist arguments fall apart right there, dodgery Thorin, old chum...

Veya doesn't doesn't "hate" the British, per se..

He simply despises and derides "hill shepherds", racists and bigots wherever he sees them  !      

I think I easily proved, that you and Veya are the revisionists

But Veya calls and labels people not racist as racist because they are British

So lets put this to the test then shall we?

Do you think I am racist?

I stand and fight against racism all the time, so his charge is false and is nothing more than a poor deflection on the debate, trying to shout people down calling them racist. Its a poor argument that has no validity on me, no matter how much he shrieks it.

Unless you can prove I am racist, then clearly Veya's claim I am racist is based on a hate of the British and by the fact he claims the British flag is offensive, without offering any reason as to why. Which is like I said claiming the British are offensive if they are proud of their own flag. So he clearly hates the Brits to claim the British flag is offensive and claims any association to the British is offensive. His own words

Show me anywhere that I have excused the british for wrongs done in the past?

I never have. You see, this is the bases for your ability to debate, you and Veya make false charges against me. I have posted countless historical threads on wrongs done by the British and have never excused them

This is for your edited lie you made

I mean, even Veya states that half do not agree with him, showing that his previous claims were false and that it is he that wishes to impose his views on Australians. Not allow them to decide for themselves.
I do believe in time Australia will become a Republic, but he is trying to enforce this view on the people and not allow them to decide for themselves. One thing is clear to say he wants to remove any association from the British, proves he fundamentally hates anything British. As this is claiming there is something very wrong to be associated with anything British. Its the sort of regressive leftist hate taught in some Universities these days. So I am not surprised I hear Veya coming out with this. I hear some regressive Brits say the same and hate their own country.

YOU don't have to be a hardcore racist (along the lines of Stormee or Nems, as glaring examples here on Newsfix, for example..),  to still manage to come out with totally erroneous claims against current Aussie (or American, either..) generations' behaviour towards indigenous folks in general..

You may even be strongly anti-racist 90% of the time, but still manage to support racially-discriminatory agendas at times..


There are some pretty shonky references you have used in the past, as well, to push some ideas --  such as the idea of a separate "nation" for todays Aborigines.

A foreign-based and internet-spawned notion, that is in reality supported by only a very tiny minority of Aboriginal groups..

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

YOU don't have to be a hardcore racist (along the lines of Stormee or Nems, as glaring examples here on Newsfix, for example..),  to still manage to come out with totally erroneous claims against current Aussie (or American, either..) generations' behaviour towards indigenous folks in general..

There are some pretty shonky references you have used in the past, as well, to push some ideas --  such as the idea of a separate "nation" for todays Aborigines.

A foreign-based and internet-spawned notion, that is in reality supported by only a very tiny minority of Aboriginal groups..

So you are claiming I am a little racist, based on no evidence, but backing the concept of self determination?

One moment


Nems is not racist either, which shows you have not got the first clue about racism
For you to even claim I am a little racist based on rubbish, shows how brainwashed some of your regressive lefties are. Your reasoning would class the vast majority of humans as racist, based off hate and not reason.

Just your view, that me arguing from the position your own country classifies when the nation was formed, that this is somehow racist?
In no way have I deemed Aussies inferior and I stand up for the self determination of the aborigines and Aussies alike.

So that does not make racist but a defender of self determination, which is universal as I also support the right of the Palestinians to self determination.

So to claim it is shaky, would mean you class those aborigines who want separation as racist?
That is like saying that the Scottish are racist for wanting separation from the UK
Or calling Quill racist for wanting Calibrexit

In other words this is typical regressive drivel by you. There is no racism, but racism seen by people who have not the first clue about racism

So if you are calling me racist for backing self determination, you are classifying billions as racist


So clearly wolf, you must think this Indegeneous chap is racist?


The case for Indigenous self-determination:




http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-21/bellear-indigenous-sovereignty/5032294

It is you that has no clue about racism
you may not be Direct like Major
But you obviously hold white separate from aboriginal WHICH WE ARE NOT

You are Actually WORSE than major cause you pretend you have a clue or are NOT being racist when clearly You are telling people that are Saying WE ARE ONE PEOPLE that "No your not you have different skin so you different"

FUCK you we are all Aussie.
A couple and literally you are talking half a dozen Aboriginal nations suggest independence Form the rest of Australia But really have no resources to do so. AND what racist geranium like you keep doing is telling Whites to Take them off their land and put them in Schools etc because the Aboriginal way of life doesn't meet UN standards.


Just STFU everyone can see you are an Ignorant Racist Twat. Despite giving Lip service to the idea, You clearly DO NOT believe it.\

And Clearly Don't understand Any of the complexities around Aboriginals (cause you keep referign to groups than number in the few hunrdred indidvuals and suggest they represnt Most Aboriginals WHICH Is BULLSHIT Complete Made up BULLSHIT that racist ewankers liek you want to hear to make themselves feel better, because you cant accept that the vast majority of Aboriginals, Europeans and dozens of other races Have ALL BECOME Aussie in the space of 70 years!
Not this Bullshit you try and say UK is Multicultural we have a dozen cultures from centuries.

And NEMS is racist she called All Pakistani Barbaric, In fact If you don't think she is YOU DOUBLY have No fucking idea what racism is !!!

AND your post about the flag PROVES my point almost 70% of Aussie are Just as Proud of the Aboriginal flag as the Anglo one
Aboriginals make up less than 5% of the total population. SO most of those people that are Proud Of EITHER flag are not Aboriginals They are just Aussie and they would be EVEN PROUDER if we combined them.

Only Neo-Nazi get the union jack tattooed on them but heaps have the southern cross tattoo (the piece of the flag people like)


You are in WAY OVER your head and just need to STFU you have ZERO fucking clue

veya_victaous wrote:It is you that has no clue about racism
you may not be Direct like Major
But you obviously hold white separate from aboriginal WHICH WE ARE NOT

You are Actually WORSE than major cause you pretend you have a clue or are NOT being racist when clearly You are telling people that are Saying WE ARE ONE PEOPLE that "No your not you have different skin so you different"

FUCK you we are all Aussie.
A couple and literally you are talking half a dozen Aboriginal nations suggest independence Form the rest of Australia But really have no resources to do so. AND what racist geranium like you keep doing is telling Whites to Take them off their land and put them in Schools etc because the Aboriginal way of life doesn't meet UN standards.


Just STFU everyone can see you are an Ignorant Racist Twat. Despite giving Lip service to the idea, You clearly DO NOT believe it.\

And Clearly Don't understand Any of the complexities around Aboriginals (cause you keep referign to groups than number in the few hunrdred indidvuals and suggest they represnt Most Aboriginals WHICH Is BULLSHIT Complete Made up BULLSHIT that racist ewankers liek you want to hear to make themselves feel better, because you cant accept that the vast majority of Aboriginals, Europeans and dozens of other races Have ALL BECOME Aussie in the space of 70 years!
Not this Bullshit you try and say UK is Multicultural we have a dozen cultures from centuries.

And NEMS is racist she called All Pakistani Barbaric, In fact If you don't think she is YOU DOUBLY have No fucking idea what racism is !!!

1) Deflection and ad hominem

2) Fabrication. I back self determination. So for example there are 5.2 million Scottish people, they are a minority of the British people, when 57 million are not Scottish. They want seperation and self determination. Does me backing their right for self determination  make me racist?

The answer is no and if I back the right of self determination of aboriginals. Does that make me racist?

No

In fact its you being racist denying the identity of some aboriginals and forcing an Australian identity onto those who do not wish it. That is a Totalitarian mindset, which even the US, Canada, New Zealand have moved away from. So its actually you being racist declaring who people can be. I dont do that but back self determination.

I've looked at the Sami Parliament in Europe, I've visited reservations in the US and Canada, and I've spent time in Maori communities.

What I found in my travels shames our nation and makes a mockery of our fear of a 'nation within a nation'.
Dozens of treaties have been signed in the US and Canada which afford First Nations communities varying degrees of genuine self-determination, from controlling their own schooling to giving them a real capacity to generate an economic base.

In the United States today, there are more than 250 Native American tribal courts across at least 32 states, which handle everything from criminal matters to family court.

Native American corporations and individuals are exempt from a raft of state and federal taxes, including state income tax for people living on reservations.

Native Americans and First Nations people in Canada also have significant political structures which ensure a greater degree of power in their own communities. In Canada, they have the Assembly of First Nations. In the US, individual reservations act as partially autonomous bodies, providing their own law and policing, schooling, health, housing and infrastructure, and income through tax breaks and initiatives like casinos.
In New Zealand, Maori have seven seats which sit over the entire nation, in which only Maori can vote (although anyone can contest a seat).

So even the US, Canada etc have better self determination than the Aussies do, which by your reasoning makes the US, Canada and New Zealand racist for giving them more self determination.


4) So its not me saying anything other than back the right of people. You are denying this right stating, you and only you can say how people identify themselves. That is denying people freedom os expression and abuse of their human rights.

5) It does not matter what I do or not understand about aboriginals when I back the concept of self determination. This is about self dtermination, which by default you would deny to all Aussies if you are against the concept. What you are saying is you decide what people are based grographically under your forced views. That is prejudice and discrimination.

6) No Nems did not say all Pakistanis were savages, she said they were savages. Those that committed the honour killings. So she never barbaric, she said savage and in regard to the criminals.

So to sum up.
You want to force identities onto people and decide who they should belong to

I want to allow people to decide themselves and back self determination

veya_victaous wrote:AND your post about the flag PROVES my point almost 70% of Aussie are Just as Proud of the Aboriginal flag as the Anglo one
Aboriginals make up less than 5% of the total population. SO most of those people that are Proud Of EITHER flag are not Aboriginals They are just Aussie and they would be EVEN PROUDER if we combined them.

Only Neo-Nazi get the union jack tattooed on them but heaps have the southern cross tattoo (the piece of the flag people like)


You are in WAY OVER your head and just need to STFU you have ZERO fucking clue

It proves my point, they do not see the aussie flag as racist as you claim, having the union jack within the flag. As seen the vast majority are proud of both. Which means many Aussies accept aboriginal identity and culture. The very thing you are denying them. Then  we have an even worse stereotype, that only racists tattoo the flag on the British nation on them. No claim on any nation but the Brits. You keep proving my point and on poor stereotypes you hold of the British

So aboriginals make up 5% of the population, the Scottish 10%, you want to deny the right of one to have self determination, because you want to force onto them an identity of your choosing.

You do write a load of crap, Thorin...

Nems is a demonstrable blatant racist through and through  --  to claim otherwise, you will have to lie through your teeth..
Or, maybe just look at the racist and xenophobic bile she posts on here ?


No matter how keen some individual activists maybe down here, less than 15% of Aborigines actually support that "self determination" nonsense..

To support that garbage, you have to support a racist ideology promoted by foreigners without a clue.


Unlike the USA, Canada and NZ there is no Aboriginal "nation" in Oz --  but rather over 400 family-based "communities" across the country..
With the great majority of the indigenous citizens living in and around the towns and cities, less than 10% live out in the Aboriginal settlements themselves.

Would you disenfranchise over 90% of Kooris and Murris, forcing them to move to who knows where, just to make a small minority happy ?

When the great majority of Aborigines themselves are more keen on recognition within the constitution;  rather than being cut off and herded into their own separate "nation", as you so ignorantly suggest..


As for Scotland --they already have their own country --  what they want is to have control given back to them..        

King was not an angel.

Lest you be tempted to believe the controlled media's lie about "racists" in the FBI being out to "get" King, you should be aware that the man most responsible for the FBI's probe of King was Assistant Director William C. Sullivan. Sullivan describes himself as a liberal, and says that initially "I was one hundred per cent for King...because I saw him as an effective and badly needed leader for the Black people in their desire for civil rights." The probe of King not only confirmed their suspicions about King's Communist beliefs and associations, but it also revealed King to be a despicable hypocrite, an immoral degenerate, and a worthless charlatan.

According to Assistant Director Sullivan, who had direct access to the surveillance files on King which are denied the American people, King had embezzled or misapplied substantial amounts of money contributed to the "civil rights" movement. King used SCLC funds to pay for liquor, and numerous prostitutes both Black and White, who were brought to his hotel rooms, often two at a time, for drunken sex parties which sometimes lasted for several days. These types of activities were the norm for King's speaking and organizing tours.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

You do write a load of crap, Thorin...

Nems is a demonstrable blatant racist through and through  --  to claim otherwise, you will have to lie through your teeth..
Or, maybe just look at the racist and xenophobic bile she posts on here ?


No matter how keen some individual activists maybe down here, less than 15% of Aborigines actually support that "self determination" nonsense..

To support that garbage, you have to support a racist ideology promoted by foreigners without a clue.


Unlike the USA, Canada and NZ there is no Aboriginal "nation" in Oz --  but rather over 400 family-based "communities" across the country..
With the great majority of the indigenous citizens living in and around the towns and cities, less than 10% live out in the Aboriginal settlements themselves.

Would you disenfranchise over 90% of Kooris and Murris, forcing them to move to who knows where, just to make a small minority happy ?

When the great majority of Aborigines themselves are more keen on recognition within the constitution;  rather than being cut off and herded into their own separate "nation", as you so ignorantly suggest..


As for Scotland --they already have their own country --  what they want is to have control given back to them..        

1) Deflection again

2) No she is not a rascist and I am getting bored of your constant unfounded attacks on people, you really are sounding quite pathetic, from the person I once knew. You don't provide any evidennce and just attack somebody who has not posted on this thread.
If you cannot produce any evidence, then I suggest you apologise

3) So 15% you claim support self determination. Does that mean they cannot have self determination, as we see for indigenous groups in the US, Canada etc? Does that mean they are rascist or that I am racist for supporting their right to self determination or the right to even vote for one?

No, but you pathetically and disgustingly made such charge on me. I could not care that Veya did, he has the intellect of a hamster and calls anyone a racist when losing a debate, but you I have better respect for and yet you think you can call me racist for defending the right of self determination

That is childish and pathetic 

4) To support their right is not racism, its you who by denying this are claiming they have to follow your view and way of life. That is denying them not only self determination but the right to even vote to decide. That is appalling and an abuse of their human rights to self expression.

5) Again numbers and what is wrong with those 10% being able to have self determination? Its seems your only argument is that to you, they must be inferior thier way of life, which is being racist, to decide on how they wish to live? Just who do you think you are to decide the way of life of people, when its their choice not yours? They are not choosing for you but for them. It does not matter if it was only a few hundred.

6) The aboriginies had their own country and foreigners took over it and now are telling them how to live their lives. So again you are a taker, one forcing your views on others

Thorin wrote:

How convenient for you.  dodgery Thorin,  that you happily ignore the second half of MLK's speech,  where he also said  

"...  we must see what peace for the Arabs means in a real sense of security on another level. Peace for the Arabs means the kind of economic security that they so desperately need. These nations, as you know, are part of that third world of hunger, of disease, of illiteracy. I think that as long as these conditions exist there will be tensions, there will be the endless quest to find scapegoats. So there is a need for a Marshall Plan for the Middle East, where we lift those who are at the bottom of the economic ladder and bring them into the mainstream of economic activity."

A bit disingenuous of you to deliberately ignore that second part,  is it not ?

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Thorin wrote:

How convenient for you.  dodgery Thorin,  that you happily ignore the second half of MLK's speech,  where he also said  

"...  we must see what peace for the Arabs means in a real sense of security on another level. Peace for the Arabs means the kind of economic security that they so desperately need. These nations, as you know, are part of that third world of hunger, of disease, of illiteracy. I think that as long as these conditions exist there will be tensions, there will be the endless quest to find scapegoats. So there is a need for a Marshall Plan for the Middle East, where we lift those who are at the bottom of the economic ladder and bring them into the mainstream of economic activity."

A bit disingenuous of you to deliberately ignore that second part,  is it not ?

I did not ignore anything
The point is also on Israel they are trying to make, so how is that being disingenuous?
He also said being anti-zionism, was antisemitism, which would make you racist would it not with your hate of Zionism, which is a simply a home for the Jews?
How is it disingenuous when I did not create the poster.
You see he claims the self determination for two peoples where you deny for the aborigines, where both want self determination.
I agree on his words there also, but how can you claim I am being disingenuous?
Pathetic attack again and am beginning to see why others think you are nothing more than a troll and trouble maker on here
So next time reserve your poor unfounded yet again claim at the designers of the meme

Here this will help educate you wolf which will help with your PM's

Enjoy