Jeremy Corbyn launches ‘Care for the NHS’ campaign to highlight government failures on healthcare

First topic message reminder :

Leader of the Labour party demands extra money from Phillip Hammond for the health service

Jeremy Corbyn has kickstarted a campaign to shift public focus towards the NHS with activists taking part in more than 500 events across the country.
The “Care for the NHS” campaign aims to highlight the failures of the Government on the health service following its apparent absence from the Autumn Statement.
The campaign is set to be a priority over the winter period for Labour, as Mr Corbyn demanded extra money from Phillip Hammond for the NHS.

Speaking at the launch of the campaign, Mr Corbyn said: “The Conservatives are failing our health service, which has been pushed into financial crisis and soaring deficits.
“Patients are facing longer waits, with hospitals overcrowded, understaffed and threatened with closure. Labour will stand up for the NHS. We will always make sure the NHS has the funding it needs and will join up services from home to hospital with a properly integrated health and social care service. 
“Labour created the NHS to care for us all, now it is time to care for the NHS,” he added.

The launch has received very little media coverage, with only the Guardian, the Huffington Post and the Morning Star seemingly covering the event.
When contacted by The Independent, Labour would not comment on whether it felt the event had received the level of coverage it had hoped for.
Jonathan Ashworth MP, Labour’s Shadow Health Secretary, said that the Autumn Statement made it clear the NHS was “at the back of the queue” for the Government. 
“It is jaw-dropping that when the NHS is facing the biggest financial squeeze in its history - when waiting lists are at four million, when A&Es are in crisis – that the Autumn Statement contained not a single penny piece of extra investment for social care and the NHS. 
“Instead the Conservatives have ignored the chorus of voices pleading for them to address the mess they have created in social care with cuts to budgets of £4.5 billion. The crisis in social care is such that thousands more older and disabled people face being left without access to services,” Mr Ashworth said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-launches-care-for-the-nhs-campaign-highlight-government-failure-healthcare-a7443856.html



On Saturday all over the country, in cities, towns and villages, Labour were out in force bringing to people's attention what is happening to their NHS.   The numpty that has just been elected leader of UKIP is on video saying that the NHS is a monolithic structure from a bygone era and should be privatised.   There is your choice, Labour fighting for it, UKIP and the Tories privatising it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Spindleshanks wrote:

I know you didn't, but there is often a misunderstanding made about people on tax credits getting free this and free that.

What it comes down to is that I don't think anyone should pay for prescriptions, they don't have to in Scotland or Wales so why should they in England?

Hmmm, then there would be even less money going in. It's really the people who have to have regular prescriptions who are paying the most, hence the pre-payment cards. I'd like to not pay, but I don't really mind that much as long as I don't have to pay a fortune. I just think that others should also pay something, and so few seem to - at least as far as I've observed when queuing at the counter.

Who is subsidising the people in Scotland and Wales?

Something like 60% of the population don't have to pay for one reason or the other.

I assume the budget they get for their individual health services covers the cost in Scotland and Wales.

Spindleshanks wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Hmmm, then there would be even less money going in. It's really the people who have to have regular prescriptions who are paying the most, hence the pre-payment cards. I'd like to not pay, but I don't really mind that much as long as I don't have to pay a fortune. I just think that others should also pay something, and so few seem to - at least as far as I've observed when queuing at the counter.

Who is subsidising the people in Scotland and Wales?

Something like 60% of the population don't have to pay for one reason or the other.

I assume the budget they get for their individual health services covers the cost in Scotland and Wales.

60%? There you are then. That's ridiculous. It should be a small minority IMO.

So do Scotland or Wales suffer in other ways, or are they getting more than they should? Perhaps they're more efficient re where the money is spent?

Although, it's probably somewhere close to the truth to say that most of those who would have to pay are likely to be the among the healthiest people in the prime of their lives, ie, those in their twenties, thirties and forties.

Not all of them of course, some of these will have health issues such as asthma and people with asthma do have to pay.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Spindleshanks wrote:

Something like 60% of the population don't have to pay for one reason or the other.

I assume the budget they get for their individual health services covers the cost in Scotland and Wales.

60%? There you are then. That's ridiculous. It should be a small minority IMO.

So do Scotland or Wales suffer in other ways, or are they getting more than they should? Perhaps they're more efficient re where the money is spent?

A large number of those would be over 60's.  There are more people over 60 in this country than there are under 18's nowadays.

I don't know the other answer, more efficient perhaps?

Smaller populations requiring less in the way of prescriptions?

sassy wrote:Shame you have missed the fact he is doing just that and holding her to account at PMQs every time.   Why, even the media are reporting that, so it has to be excellent for them to even notice.

No, you are wrong, with what has happened lately he should have her on the ropes constantly. He doesn't. He is great at being an activist and shite at leading the opposition.

You obviously don't watch it and just listen to what your masters tell you.

PMQs review: Jeremy Corbyn cheers Labour MPs as he beats ...

www.newstatesman.com/.../pmqs-review-jeremy-corbyn-cheers-labour-mps-he-beats-...
14 Sep 2016 - PMQs review: Jeremy Corbyn cheers Labour MPs as he beats Theresa ... Struggling to explain the need for new grammars, May resorted to ...

PMQs: So it turns out Theresa May doesn't bother listening to Jeremy ...

www.independent.co.uk › News › UK › UK Politics
2 Nov 2016 - PMQs: So it turns out Theresa May doesn't bother listening to Jeremy Corbyn either. That Theresa May congratulated Jeremy Corbyn on the birth of a granddaughter that did not ... still something of a surprise for collective Cabinet responsibility to be suspended yet again. ... How to beat the fresher blues ...

PMQs: Jeremy Corbyn makes Brexit joke at Theresa May's expense ...

www.independent.co.uk › News › UK › UK Politics
26 Oct 2016 - PMQs: Jeremy Corbyn makes Brexit joke at Theresa May's expense and even she has to laugh. 'I thought for a moment the Prime Minister was going to say Brexit means Brexit again' .... How to beat the fresher blues ...

Corbyn presses May over grammar schools at PMQs - as it happened ...

https://www.theguardian.com › Politics › EU referendum and Brexit
14 Sep 2016 - Corbyn beat May at #PMQs. She was floundering, didn't have answers. And Cameron will be laughing his little socks off. September 14, 2016.

Jeremy Corbyn beats Theresa May at PMQs(again) - Watch or ...

www.downvids.net/jeremy-corbyn-beats-theresa-may-at-pmqs-again--913828.html
13 Oct 2016 - jeremy corbyn beats theresa may at pmqs again - watch this video, or you can download it here.

Theresa May MISTAKENLY congratulates Jeremy Corbyn on birth of ...

www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Theresa-leaves-MPs-stitches-MISTAKENLY-congratulating-Jer...
2 Nov 2016 - Corbyn opened the session congratulating Labour MP Conor McGinn ... Theresa May (left at PMQs today) left MPs in stitches today after mistakenly .... Steve Aoki says he's up for collaborating with Iggy Azalea again if the ...

Jeremy Corbyn wiped the floor with Theresa May at PMQs while ...

www.mirror.co.uk › News › UK News › Jeremy Corbyn
6 days ago - The Labour leader took the Prime Minister to task over the NHS and social care - and the Prime Minister had no answer.

Oh that's disappointing. I thought you were giving me your opinion. Never mind, my opinion has changed about him and not for the better.
Who are my masters by the way?

Labour had, how many years ? To reform the NHS, what did they do?
Fcuk all.

nicko wrote:Labour had, how many years ?   To reform the NHS,    what did they do?
Fcuk all.

The NHS has had nothing but reform after reform after reform government after government after government.

It's done it no good whatsoever.

nicko wrote:Labour had, how many years ?   To reform the NHS,    what did they do?
Fcuk all.

Oops, short memory Nicko?   At the end of Labours time the NHS ratings were higher than they had ever been, Cameron promised 'no top down reorganisation of the NHS' and then promptly did just that so that he could hand more to his pals.

sassy wrote:

nicko wrote:Labour had, how many years ?   To reform the NHS,    what did they do?
Fcuk all.

Oops, short memory Nicko?   At the end of Labours time the NHS ratings were higher than they had ever been, Cameron promised 'no top down reorganisation of the NHS' and then promptly did just that so that he could hand more to his pals.

Memory as short as your own? I asked you a question. Who are my masters?

Sassy you have been brainwashed by SOCIALIST bullshit, you will NEVER see the other persons opinion, a shame really, if you could see the other side of the Arguments instead of shutting your mind against all post that you do not agree with, you would come across as a better person.

sassy wrote:

nicko wrote:Labour had, how many years ?   To reform the NHS,    what did they do?
Fcuk all.

Oops, short memory Nicko?   At the end of Labours time the NHS ratings were higher than they had ever been, Cameron promised 'no top down reorganisation of the NHS' and then promptly did just that so that he could hand more to his pals.

Exactly, under Labour the NHS became the best health care provider in the world.

Penfold is an ingrate, I suspect he has been that way for some time!

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/files/kf/field/field_publication_file/independent-audit-nhs-under-labour-1997%E2%80%932005-sunday-times-march-2005.pdf

It's long but you will get the gist of it by just reading the conclusion at the end.

a large proportion of prescriptions are actually quite unnecessary, In as much as they are actually cheaper to buy than get via the NHS

paracetamol has been mentioned
the 30/500 codiene/paracetamol that I have is cheaper bought than prescribed...
several anti biotics including the most common varients of penecillin, erythromycin and tetracyclines
and things like metformin for diabetics I know for a fact are pennies ...literally 1-2p per each

surely it makes sense in these cases for a dr to issue a "permit to buy" rather than a NHS prescription??

Also far too much is controlled by prescription (nanny state). go to most countries in europe and you can buy, over the counter WITHOUT prescription things like neomycin wound spray, which is amazing stuff for "nasty" cuts and grazes.

NOW amazingly...you can buy this stuff over here....If you happen to have livestock and you buy it from a licenced farm shop.....however of course ...its a bright purple spray.....

funny thing is the purple is gentian violet..an aniline dye...banned for human use BUT widley used and very effective on grazes...especially wet weeping grazes until some idiot banned it back in the late 60's early 70's becasue some "scientist", somewhere disovered that if you dunked a rat in it 3 times daily, made it drink a pint of it a day and whacked it with a hammer...it "might" cause cancer
I feel fairly certain that there was never a case shown whereby using as directed caused any problem for humans??????

same thing with the bright yellow stuff we used to use on burns and grazes... acriflavin....

thing is...they WORKED

what do I carry in my "field kit" for my own use...I'll leave you to guess

also what happened to te "natural cures" which were once well known and very effective

honey/ brown sugar for wounds
salt
magneisum sulphate paste...(bet sassy can remember "drawing paste") for infected splinter wounds..fetched out all the gunk AND the splinter

etc etc etc.....

and a lot of the "herbal cures" for minor wounds and illnesses

all effective...the bugs dont get resistant
and anyone can obtain them for the price of a little learning and reading......

I think you will find that your Kings Fund report was from 2005 Spindleshanks.

The one that was done when Labour left office was:  https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/files/kf/high-performing-nhs-progress-review-1997-2010-ruth-thorlby-jo-maybin-kings-fund-april-2010_0.pdf


It concluded:

In summary, there is no doubt that the NHS is closer to being a high-performing health system now than it was in 1997. It is capable of delivering high-quality care to some
patients, in some areas, some of the time. We have identified a number of improvements that need to be made. Even though there are considerable financial challenges ahead the next government must aspire to create an NHS that can deliver quality to all patients, in all areas, all of the time – in a way that is demonstrably fair, efficient and accountable to the society that pays for it

Lord Foul wrote:a large proportion of prescriptions are actually quite unnecessary, In as much as they are actually cheaper to buy than get via the NHS

paracetamol has been mentioned
the 30/500 codiene/paracetamol that I have is cheaper bought than prescribed...
several anti biotics including the most common varients of penecillin, erythromycin and tetracyclines
and things like metformin for diabetics I know for a fact are pennies ...literally 1-2p per each

surely it makes sense in these cases for a dr to issue a "permit to buy" rather than a NHS prescription??

Also far too much is controlled by prescription (nanny state). go to most countries in europe and you can buy, over the counter WITHOUT prescription things like neomycin wound spray, which is amazing stuff for "nasty" cuts and grazes.

NOW amazingly...you can buy this stuff over here....If you happen to have livestock and you buy it from a licenced farm shop.....however of course ...its a bright purple spray.....

funny thing is the purple is gentian violet..an aniline dye...banned for human use BUT widley used and very effective on grazes...especially wet weeping grazes until some idiot banned it back in the late 60's early 70's becasue some "scientist", somewhere disovered that if you dunked a rat in it 3 times daily, made it drink a pint of it a day and whacked it with a hammer...it "might" cause cancer
I feel fairly certain that there was never a case shown whereby using as directed caused any problem for humans??????

same thing with the bright yellow stuff we used to use on burns and grazes... acriflavin....

thing is...they WORKED

what do I carry in my "field kit"  for my own use...I'll leave you to guess

also what happened to te "natural cures" which were once well known and very effective

honey/ brown sugar for wounds
salt
magneisum sulphate paste...(bet sassy can remember "drawing paste") for infected splinter wounds..fetched out all the gunk AND the splinter

etc etc etc.....

and a lot of the "herbal cures" for minor wounds and illnesses

all effective...the bugs dont get resistant
and anyone can obtain them for the price of a little learning and reading......

Can't you claim free scripts for your chronic conditions? And how about a yearly prescription card if you cannot - saves a fortune?

nicko wrote:Sassy you have been brainwashed by SOCIALIST bullshit,   you will NEVER see the other persons opinion, a shame really, if you could see the other side of the Arguments instead of shutting your mind against all post that you do not agree with,  you would come across as a better person.

Why thank you Nicko, I'll take that on board, but do let me know, so that I can note in big letters with a star beside it, the next time you agree with a socialist statement. 

sassy wrote:I think you will find that your Kings Fund report was from 2005 Spindleshanks.

The one that was done when Labour left office was:  https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/files/kf/high-performing-nhs-progress-review-1997-2010-ruth-thorlby-jo-maybin-kings-fund-april-2010_0.pdf


It concluded:

In summary, there is no doubt that the NHS is closer to being a high-performing health system now than it was in 1997. It is capable of delivering high-quality care to some
patients, in some areas, some of the time. We have identified a number of improvements that need to be made. Even though there are considerable financial challenges ahead the next government must aspire to create an NHS that can deliver quality to all patients, in all areas, all of the time – in a way that is demonstrably fair, efficient and accountable to the society that pays for it

Ah thankyou, i didn't find a more recent one.

The point of posting it though was to show that vast improvements had been made in the early years of the Labour government under Blair, particularly in the form of shorter waiting times.

Mind you, even then people were still moaning about the state of the NHS.

Spindleshanks wrote:

sassy wrote:I think you will find that your Kings Fund report was from 2005 Spindleshanks.

The one that was done when Labour left office was:  https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/files/kf/high-performing-nhs-progress-review-1997-2010-ruth-thorlby-jo-maybin-kings-fund-april-2010_0.pdf


It concluded:

In summary, there is no doubt that the NHS is closer to being a high-performing health system now than it was in 1997. It is capable of delivering high-quality care to some
patients, in some areas, some of the time. We have identified a number of improvements that need to be made. Even though there are considerable financial challenges ahead the next government must aspire to create an NHS that can deliver quality to all patients, in all areas, all of the time – in a way that is demonstrably fair, efficient and accountable to the society that pays for it

Ah thankyou, i didn't find a more recent one.

The point of posting it though was to show that vast improvements had been made in the early years of the Labour government under Blair, particularly in the form of shorter waiting times.

Mind you, even then people were still moaning about the state of the NHS.

It's impossible to get it 100% right 100% of the time, but it helps if it's not run by people who want to destroy it.   You're welcome BTW.

Lord Foul wrote:a large proportion of prescriptions are actually quite unnecessary, In as much as they are actually cheaper to buy than get via the NHS

paracetamol has been mentioned
the 30/500 codiene/paracetamol that I have is cheaper bought than prescribed...
several anti biotics including the most common varients of penecillin, erythromycin and tetracyclines
and things like metformin for diabetics I know for a fact are pennies ...literally 1-2p per each

surely it makes sense in these cases for a dr to issue a "permit to buy" rather than a NHS prescription??

Also far too much is controlled by prescription (nanny state). go to most countries in europe and you can buy, over the counter WITHOUT prescription things like neomycin wound spray, which is amazing stuff for "nasty" cuts and grazes.

NOW amazingly...you can buy this stuff over here....If you happen to have livestock and you buy it from a licenced farm shop.....however of course ...its a bright purple spray.....

funny thing is the purple is gentian violet..an aniline dye...banned for human use BUT widley used and very effective on grazes...especially wet weeping grazes until some idiot banned it back in the late 60's early 70's becasue some "scientist", somewhere disovered that if you dunked a rat in it 3 times daily, made it drink a pint of it a day and whacked it with a hammer...it "might" cause cancer
I feel fairly certain that there was never a case shown whereby using as directed caused any problem for humans??????

same thing with the bright yellow stuff we used to use on burns and grazes... acriflavin....

thing is...they WORKED

what do I carry in my "field kit"  for my own use...I'll leave you to guess

also what happened to te "natural cures" which were once well known and very effective

honey/ brown sugar for wounds
salt
magneisum sulphate paste...(bet sassy can remember "drawing paste") for infected splinter wounds..fetched out all the gunk AND the splinter

etc etc etc.....

and a lot of the "herbal cures" for minor wounds and illnesses

all effective...the bugs dont get resistant
and anyone can obtain them for the price of a little learning and reading......

I don't know about the rest of them but honey is definitely used and you can still get magnesium sulphate.

In what way do you mean a permit to buy?

A prescription is given by the doctor which is specific to that patient, not all patients can take all medication. Certain medication will react with others and some people have allergies, not to mention pregnant women not being able to take a vast amount of drugs because of the effects on the developing baby.

A permit to buy a certain drug would be exactly the same as the doctor writing a prescription.

sassy wrote:

Spindleshanks wrote:

Ah thankyou, i didn't find a more recent one.

The point of posting it though was to show that vast improvements had been made in the early years of the Labour government under Blair, particularly in the form of shorter waiting times.

Mind you, even then people were still moaning about the state of the NHS.

It's impossible to get it 100% right 100% of the time, but it helps if it's not run by people who want to destroy it.   You're welcome BTW.

Perfection is something to be strived for, but rarely achieved.

Spindleshanks wrote:

sassy wrote:


It's impossible to get it 100% right 100% of the time, but it helps if it's not run by people who want to destroy it.   You're welcome BTW.

Perfection is something to be strived for, but rarely achieved.

Too true!

Spindleshanks wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:a large proportion of prescriptions are actually quite unnecessary, In as much as they are actually cheaper to buy than get via the NHS

paracetamol has been mentioned
the 30/500 codiene/paracetamol that I have is cheaper bought than prescribed...
several anti biotics including the most common varients of penecillin, erythromycin and tetracyclines
and things like metformin for diabetics I know for a fact are pennies ...literally 1-2p per each

surely it makes sense in these cases for a dr to issue a "permit to buy" rather than a NHS prescription??

Also far too much is controlled by prescription (nanny state). go to most countries in europe and you can buy, over the counter WITHOUT prescription things like neomycin wound spray, which is amazing stuff for "nasty" cuts and grazes.

NOW amazingly...you can buy this stuff over here....If you happen to have livestock and you buy it from a licenced farm shop.....however of course ...its a bright purple spray.....

funny thing is the purple is gentian violet..an aniline dye...banned for human use BUT widley used and very effective on grazes...especially wet weeping grazes until some idiot banned it back in the late 60's early 70's becasue some "scientist", somewhere disovered that if you dunked a rat in it 3 times daily, made it drink a pint of it a day and whacked it with a hammer...it "might" cause cancer
I feel fairly certain that there was never a case shown whereby using as directed caused any problem for humans??????

same thing with the bright yellow stuff we used to use on burns and grazes... acriflavin....

thing is...they WORKED

what do I carry in my "field kit"  for my own use...I'll leave you to guess

also what happened to te "natural cures" which were once well known and very effective

honey/ brown sugar for wounds
salt
magneisum sulphate paste...(bet sassy can remember "drawing paste") for infected splinter wounds..fetched out all the gunk AND the splinter

etc etc etc.....

and a lot of the "herbal cures" for minor wounds and illnesses

all effective...the bugs dont get resistant
and anyone can obtain them for the price of a little learning and reading......

I don't know about the rest of them but honey is definitely used and you can still get magnesium sulphate.

In what way do you mean a permit to buy?

A prescription is given by the doctor which is specific to that patient, not all patients can take all medication.  Certain medication will react with others and some people have allergies, not to mention pregnant women not being able to take a vast amount of drugs because of the effects on the developing baby.

A permit to buy a certain drug would be exactly the same as the doctor writing a prescription.

No it wouldnt...

in terms of the costs and paper work and the cost of the medication to the NHS

vis... a dr gives me a "permit to buy" say the antibiotic penecillin
I go to the pharmacy and with that permit buy the required ammount of penecillin at the retail cost of pence per tablet

however a Dr gives me a prescription
I got to the pahramcy and with that obtain the tablets ...these tablets are charged to the NHS at way above retail price
the paperwork trail is immense and costly

and the prescrition charge likely does not cover it all AND is more expensive for me.......

Lord Foul wrote:

Spindleshanks wrote:

I don't know about the rest of them but honey is definitely used and you can still get magnesium sulphate.

In what way do you mean a permit to buy?

A prescription is given by the doctor which is specific to that patient, not all patients can take all medication.  Certain medication will react with others and some people have allergies, not to mention pregnant women not being able to take a vast amount of drugs because of the effects on the developing baby.

A permit to buy a certain drug would be exactly the same as the doctor writing a prescription.

No it wouldnt...

in terms of the costs and paper work and the cost of the medication to the NHS

vis... a dr gives me a "permit to buy" say the antibiotic penecillin
I go to the pharmacy and with that permit buy the required ammount of penecillin at the retail cost of pence per tablet

however a Dr gives me a prescription
I got to the pahramcy and with that obtain the tablets ...these tablets are charged to the NHS at way above retail price
the paperwork trail is immense and costly

and the prescrition charge likely does not cover it all AND is more expensive for me.......

Q. Where patients pay for their prescription, if the product is cheaper to buy, does it say anywhere that you must provide drugs in accordance with the prescription as opposed to supply the drugs privately to the patient?


Yes. It is part of the terms of service that pharmacy contractors must with reasonable promptness “provide drugs so ordered” once a prescription has been presented. Under the NHS Act 2006, there is also a requirement that NHS services are provided free at the point of delivery unless otherwise prescribed (e.g. the NHS prescription charge). Therefore, a patient receiving NHS treatment cannot be charged other than where prescribed.
Also, remember that the prescription charge is a payment towards the cost of the NHS and not payment for the actual drugs dispensed – bypassing the prescription will deprive the NHS of the prescription charge

http://psnc.org.uk/dispensing-supply/receiving-a-prescription/patient-charges/

far better to get rid of prescription charges and up NI a %age point or two either for employees or employers

or better still place a social responisbility tax on employes, the rate of which depends on number of employees AND the difference between top pay and bottom pay....

Lord Foul wrote:far better to get rid of prescription charges and up NI  a %age point or two either for employees or employers

or better still place a social responisbility tax on employes, the rate of which depends on number of employees AND the difference between top pay and bottom pay....

That is a possible solution although people would whinge like merry hell if it was added to their NI payments.

we all benefit from the "health of the nation"
we should all pay for the "health of the nation"

We used to have a ointment we called " Blackjack" as Lord Foul said it would "draw out" splinters, boils ect. very effective.