The rise of the far right.

Currently being discussed on Britain's national radio talk show, LBC with Nick Ferrarri.
It has a new word - the Alt Right. Or Old Right. Or old fashioned Fascism.
Just another name for empowered far right governments, factions and extremists.
There has been a surge in Eastern Europe, Austria, Germany, Poland, Italy, France and the Netherlands.
Now increasing in strength in the UK.
It is manifesting itself across all parts of the media - Fox news, News International, Breitbart, The Mail, the Express and even LBC.(that Hopkins whore).
It encompasses white supremacists, nationalists and is evidenced by a 5 fold rise in reported far right hate attacks since Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/30/police-report-fivefold-increase-race-hate-crimes-since-brexit-result

The far right come in a number of types, often hoarding far right, and Nazi propaganda  in bedrooms and on computers, often post on extreme right websites and forums, and appear on general forums such as this attempting to defend far right crime such as committed by Anders Breivik and Tommy Mair.
Where does a lone wolf rw fanatic typing away on his laptop using fascist or weapons sites when others use sport or porn become a danger to society? Where is the line that he crosses that turns his fantasy into real acts of hate and worse?


Even Newsfix has been infected, and little is moderated to stem their hate. In fact, it seems to be encouraged. Whilst we have freedom of speech, that freedom comes with a caveat, responsiblity.

In America, they have Trump as president elect, Far right backroom staff and supported by Breitbart.
They are having Trump rallies where the crowd are raising right arms and shreiking out "HAIL TRUMP, HAIL TRUMP". Sounds familiar?

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/richard-spencer-speech-npi/508379/

It should do, our parents and grandparents witnessed EXactly the same in the 1930's.
And we all know how that ended up.
Is this a concerted and unified effort to create the 4th Reich, to combat the rise of Islamic fundamentalists?
I cannot see a happy ending, I have a dread feeling war is looming between the new Nazis and ISIS.
God help us.

You have a lot of hate there Handy, take a pill and lie down in a dark room, not all Tories are far right.

Concern for our children, not hate.

His hate shows through his posts, always on about the Tories And Flap.

HE has no other interests.

The post you commented on contained no hate.

Then Ziz you don't look hard enough !

nicko wrote:You have a lot of hate there Handy,    take a pill and lie down in a dark room, not all Tories are far right.  

Not the tories Nick, the much further right. They do exist and they are scary.
Even the toies are concerned about the rise in far right extremism.
Btw, apologies for what I called you. I was wrong and went too far.

nicko wrote:Then Ziz you don't look hard enough !

I see concern not hate - the far-right are purveyors of hate - hate threatens our civilization.

Handy Andy wrote:

nicko wrote:You have a lot of hate there Handy,    take a pill and lie down in a dark room, not all Tories are far right.  

Not the tories Nick, the much further right. They do exist and they are scary.
Even the toies are concerned about the rise in far right extremism.
Btw, apologies for what I called you. I was wrong and went too far.

Whilst I fully understand your concerns, you do need to reign in your emotions at times HA, as does scrat - you don't win battles by alienating potential allies.

A few on here are particularly sensitive at this present time as their strongly held beliefs are the subject of high levels of media and public scrutiny.
It must make difficult reading and it must make one uncomfortable having one's beliefs so rigourously challenged.

If you cared about our children then you wouldn't be supporting corrupt politicians who are ruining this country with mass immigration and who are trying to remove their freedom and democracy and right to self governance and self rule by handing it over to the eu dictatorship.


Who do people vote for if they want a stop to mass immigration and out of eu to regain national democracy and ability to exercise their right to self govt and self rule?

Futile question really Tom, but have you any comments on the links in the opening post?

well one can hardly love isis and be judged sane can one???

and it may have escaped your notice but......we already ARE (effectively) at war with isis......

I was referring to the 5 fold increase in reported hate crime since Brexit and the Trump rally where the crowd did a fair impersonation of a Hitler rally.

Lord Foul wrote:and it may have escaped your notice but......we already ARE (effectively) at war with isis......

It will require unity from countries to finally quell and ultimately defeat ISIS.
The rise of the Alt-Right will do little to unify the populus.

Handy Andy wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:and it may have escaped your notice but......we already ARE (effectively) at war with isis......

It will require unity from countries to finally quell and ultimately defeat ISIS.
The rise of the Alt-Right will do little to unify the populus.

shakes head in despair

russia and the US ???

pfffft...

they couldnt agree a common policy if aliens attacked

the EU can only agree on straight bananas

and the arabs have been fighting amongst themselves since forever
the right think more and bigger bombs is the answer
the left think taking in and impoverishing their own with 10 million immigrants (immigrants note...not refugees) is the answer

the right curse the left for their idea
and the left curse the right for theirs.....


and you want UNITY....

fuck me you dont want much do you

Tommy Monk wrote:

If you cared about our children then you wouldn't be supporting corrupt politicians who are ruining this country with mass immigration and who are trying to remove their freedom and democracy and right to self governance and self rule by handing it over to the eu dictatorship.


Who do people vote for if they want a stop to mass immigration and out of eu to regain national democracy and ability to exercise their right to self govt and self rule?

There are many reasons why the voter voted out, I voted out, and I voted out because Britain should not bow to Franco-German rule, Britain doesn't like third place and that's all they were offering, that and a trade agreement that would have seen Frankfurt as the capital of Europe and the British worker restricted to a future of austerity, I've recently been to Greece they're learning all about austerity, desperate times.

You just cannot understand that the mass immigration occurred during better times when the freedom of movement was considered the only way forward for a United States of Europe, the tories even tried to drag us into a monetary union, (ERM), thank goodness Gordon Brown dealt with the folly of that idea.

The EU wants to become a German businessmans club with expansionist plans, they only ever needed our finance.

Of course the amount of immigration during a period of woe will always come under scrutiny, and yet immigration has gone up by some 60% under tory rule because it brings in cheap labour, working for buttons, on zero hr contracts below the minimum wage, huddling together in hovels owned by off shore tax evaders.

And you fucking idiots blame the immigrant.

Vic wrote:shakes head in despair

russia and the US ???

pfffft...

You got bigger problems than Russia and the US.  The US is waaay tired of playing world policeman.  The next US president that tries to play war in the middle east is going to face impeachment proceedings, ipso facto.  

The Constitution doesn't define "high crimes and misdemeanors" so it's open season as far as justifications go.  Pussy-grabber Trump is none to popular with Republicans anyway, so katy-bar-the-door.

Russia-1917, it could be next.

Original Quill wrote:

Vic wrote:shakes head in despair

russia and the US ???

pfffft...

You got bigger problems than Russia and the US.  The US is waaay tired of playing world policeman.  The next US president that tries to play war in the middle east is going to face impeachment proceedings, ipso facto.  

The Constitution doesn't define "high crimes and misdemeanors" so it's open season as far as justifications go.  Pussy-grabber Trump is none to popular with Republicans anyway, so katy-bar-the-door.

Russia-1917, it could be next.

the point isnt wherter you are "in or out" quill, its the utter fuck up you make of things when you ARE "in"

you are quite welcome to "stay out" and for chrissake keep your beak out and your opinions to yerselves, and refrain from telling everyone else how you would have done it.

It would help the debate if you cut out the swearing and insults, like you keep banging on at me to do.
I have posted civilly and calmly in this thread, trying to promote a reasoned and decent debate, but you dont let go. A neutral would call it hypocrisy. I wont, but would be happier for you to curtail the insults, for this discussion at least.
If countries do not find common ground at least, ISIS will not be defeated, but will splinter into smaller nd more covert units and will become even more difficultto combat.

scrat wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

If you cared about our children then you wouldn't be supporting corrupt politicians who are ruining this country with mass immigration and who are trying to remove their freedom and democracy and right to self governance and self rule by handing it over to the eu dictatorship.


Who do people vote for if they want a stop to mass immigration and out of eu to regain national democracy and ability to exercise their right to self govt and self rule?

There are many reasons why the voter voted out, I voted out, and I voted out because Britain should not bow to Franco-German rule, Britain doesn't like third place and that's all they were offering, that and a trade agreement that would have seen Frankfurt as the capital of Europe and the British worker restricted to a future of austerity, I've recently been to Greece they're learning all about austerity, desperate times.

You just cannot understand that the mass immigration occurred during better times when the freedom of movement was considered the only way forward for a United States of Europe, the tories even tried to drag us into a monetary union, (ERM), thank goodness Gordon Brown dealt with the folly of that idea.

The EU wants to become a German businessmans club with expansionist plans, they only ever needed our finance.

Of course the amount of immigration during a period of woe will always come under scrutiny, and yet immigration has gone up by some 60% under tory rule because it brings in cheap labour, working for buttons, on zero hr contracts below the minimum wage, huddling together in hovels owned by off shore tax evaders.

And you fucking idiots blame the immigrant.

Labour opened the taps... and then jammed them open by signing us up to Lisbon...

Handy Andy wrote:It would help the debate if you cut out the swearing and insults, like you keep banging on at me to do.

what insults????



I have posted civilly and calmly in this thread, trying to promote a reasoned and decent debate, but you  dont let go. A neutral would call it hypocrisy. I wont, but would be happier for you to curtail the insults, for this discussion at least.
If countries do not find common ground at least, ISIS will not be defeated, but will splinter into smaller nd more covert units and will become even more difficultto combat.

agreed....but it aint going to happen ...is it

not at least whilst "this side and that side and the other side" are continually interfering in the internal affairs of nations in the name of a failed concept of "righteousness"

Look at syria....the current mess id down pricipally to the wests interference with the rue of their current loony leader.....only he aint so loony really...cruel yes loony ...NO...

just like sadam....

just like almost every other "democratising" adventure in recent years....

quill actually has a point...we should have kept well out....

Enjoy the moment Vic, but we agree finally. The ISIS problem is a shitstorm .
I dont think Russia will corral ISIS up into a circle then blow them to bits.
There are too many and too many escape routes out of the middle east to all points of the compass. They will split into smaller but co-ordinated cells. A very difficult problem to solve and highly dangerous.
Chomping at the bit in the West and forming a collective far right oppositionto ISIS just isnt the answer though.
And no, I don't have the solution either.

and what insults????

i'm genuinely confused?

Lord Foul wrote:and what insults????

i'm genuinely confused?

You invited me to have intercourse with you. (Fuck me)
Verbal intercourse I can handle.
Intercourse of the sexual kind with you I find grossly offensive..
Lol.

Handy Andy wrote:Enjoy the moment Vic, but we agree finally. The ISIS problem is a shitstorm .
I dont think Russia will corral ISIS up into a circle then blow them to bits.
There are too many and too many escape routes out of the middle east to all points of the compass. They will split into smaller but co-ordinated cells. A very difficult problem to solve and highly dangerous.
Chomping at the bit in the West and forming a collective far right oppositionto ISIS just isnt the answer though.
And no, I don't have the solution either.

no I dont think a far right "rule" in the west is the solution...but I do think a bit less "fluffy bunny" thinking is needed from the left too...

we need biometric ID cards (ok not impossible to forge but very difficult and expensive to do so) with severe penalties for those found with forged/stolen ones
(and there are other very good uses these could be put to, in terms of dealing with social ills too)

we need better ways of making sure that refugees we admit (and yes I agree we should ...conditionally) really ARE refugees and not "isis in disguise"

and Something NEEDS urgently to be done to deal with those authorities (whatever and within whatever field they may be) that are affraid of taking "others" to task out of fear of "offending" them

Handy Andy wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:and what insults????

i'm genuinely confused?

You invited me to have intercourse with you. (Fuck me)
Verbal intercourse I can handle.
Intercourse of the sexual kind with you I find grossly offensive..
Lol.

snowflake

Tommy Monk wrote:

scrat wrote:
There are many reasons why the voter voted out, I voted out, and I voted out because Britain should not bow to Franco-German rule, Britain doesn't like third place and that's all they were offering, that and a trade agreement that would have seen Frankfurt as the capital of Europe and the British worker restricted to a future of austerity, I've recently been to Greece they're learning all about austerity, desperate times.

You just cannot understand that the mass immigration occurred during better times when the freedom of movement was considered the only way forward for a United States of Europe, the tories even tried to drag us into a monetary union, (ERM), thank goodness Gordon Brown dealt with the folly of that idea.

The EU wants to become a German businessmans club with expansionist plans, they only ever needed our finance.

Of course the amount of immigration during a period of woe will always come under scrutiny, and yet immigration has gone up by some 60% under tory rule because it brings in cheap labour, working for buttons, on zero hr contracts below the minimum wage, huddling together in hovels owned by off shore tax evaders.

And you fucking idiots blame the immigrant.

Labour opened the taps... and then jammed them open by signing us up to Lisbon...

Your graph opens the freemovement from the time the Maastricht treaty was sighed in 1992, Lisbon treaty wasn't signed until 2007, fool!

Labour opened the taps on mass immigration as you can see from 1997.

Lord Foul wrote:

Handy Andy wrote:Enjoy the moment Vic, but we agree finally. The ISIS problem is a shitstorm .
I dont think Russia will corral ISIS up into a circle then blow them to bits.
There are too many and too many escape routes out of the middle east to all points of the compass. They will split into smaller but co-ordinated cells. A very difficult problem to solve and highly dangerous.
Chomping at the bit in the West and forming a collective far right oppositionto ISIS just isnt the answer though.
And no, I don't have the solution either.

no I dont think a far right "rule" in the west is the solution...but I do think a bit less "fluffy bunny" thinking is needed from the left too...

we need biometric ID cards (ok not impossible to forge but very difficult and expensive to do so) with severe penalties for those found with forged/stolen ones
(and there are other very good uses these could be put to, in terms of dealing with social ills too)

we need better ways of making sure that refugees we admit (and yes I agree we should ...conditionally) really ARE refugees and not "isis in disguise"

and Something NEEDS urgently to be done to deal with those authorities (whatever and within whatever field they may be) that are affraid of taking "others" to task out of fear of "offending" them

Should far right folk like TC ever rule the roost we'd be bar coded and hung upside to serve as batteries for some "unnatural" device.

Tommy Monk wrote:Labour opened the taps on mass immigration as you can see from 1997.

So it was the Maastricht treaty, I'm glad you've managed to shift back in time to 1992, the year of the Maastricht treaty and the ERM debarcle which took £18BN out of the public purse, the economy recovered some three years later in 1995, the Maastricht treaty was the instrument of free movement.

So what has your lack of political knowledge got to do with your sick and twisted hatred of immigrants, you want to blame Labour because to accept the truth breaks down the wall of your argument.

And yet the reality still escapes you!

I dont see what your problem is scrat....


you ALREADY carry what ammonts to an ID card

AND can in many circumstance be made to show it on demand...either by a cop or by the threat of denial of a service until you provide it....

Its called...a driving licence


a cop may in many circumstance require you to identify yourself and if in doubt of your answer hold you till the required proof of identity is provided......(and thats NOT a new law by any means)

A suitable deeply encrypted biometric card could be used for many valid purposes...

take a drunen hooligan who is charged and prosecuted for te umpteenth time...his latest prosecution could be recorded on said card

NOW if it was a requirement to SHOW said card (and have it read) before alcohol was sold to you.....it could make a big dent in binge drinking..ok its not going to 100% stop it...but it would make a big difference....

your driving licence could be encoded into it
as could your FAC etc

all on one card, reasonably secure...indeed more secure than at present, in your wallet and to hand....

could it be used for "ill purpose"...well yes I suppose it could...but then any govt wishing so to do could just make them compulsary anyway....and in anycase since virtually every step and thing yo do is know and recorded somewhere in someones data base even now...whats to loose...

every time you go out on your bike they have a fair idea of where you have been, if you go and fill up....anpr has read your plate
anpr reads you into and out of virtually every town...up and down virtually every motorway and A road...

The conservative party binned the idea of a biometric id card/driving licence on the grounds of cost during Obornes years of austerity.
It would have been money well  spent.
Osborne wasn't fit for purpose, as Hammond and May have discovered.
But at least he found the money to give himself an 11% pay rise.
And now charges £35k per hour for his American financial acumen lectures. You cannot make it up.

Anyway, off to bed. 0500 alarm call.
Night.

sleep well .

Lord Foul wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

You got bigger problems than Russia and the US.  The US is waaay tired of playing world policeman.  The next US president that tries to play war in the middle east is going to face impeachment proceedings, ipso facto.  

The Constitution doesn't define "high crimes and misdemeanors" so it's open season as far as justifications go.  Pussy-grabber Trump is none to popular with Republicans anyway, so katy-bar-the-door.

Russia-1917, it could be next.

the point isnt wherter you are "in or out" quill, its the utter fuck up you make of things when you ARE "in"

What are you going to do about that?  Cry in your soup?  Whether it's a bunch of stupid fuckin' Republicans, or the Tories that have been egging them on, both our nations have been making dumb fookin' excuses to go and kill babies in foreign lands.  So stop, already!

Vic wrote:you are quite welcome to "stay out"  and for chrissake keep your beak out and your opinions to yerselves, and refrain from telling everyone else how you would have done it.

Thank you.  On behalf of a greatful America, I thank you.  Go your own fookin' way...it's none of our business.  Try to keep the noise down.

You haven't got any problem that violence is going to fix. Even if you've got one Arab who likes you, you're going to piss him off when you kill his brother. And there are what, 1.7-billion Muslims in the world?

ISIS is the least of your problems. You've already seen: when you remove the Baath Party, you get al-Qaeda in Iraq, and when you remove them, you've got ISIS, and when you remove them, you've got al Qaeda Arabian Peninsula...it's the whole Crusades all over again. And then you've got the rift between the Shi'its and the Sunnis. It's gonna take a whole lot more guns than you have.

Lord Foul wrote:I dont see what your problem is scrat....


you ALREADY carry what ammonts to an ID card

AND can in many circumstance be made to show it on demand...either by a cop or by the threat of denial of a service until you provide it....

Its called...a driving licence


a cop may in many circumstance require you to identify yourself and if in doubt of your answer hold you till the required proof of identity is provided......(and thats NOT a new law by any means)

A suitable deeply encrypted biometric card could be used for many valid purposes...

take a drunen hooligan who is charged and prosecuted for te umpteenth time...his latest prosecution could be recorded on said card

NOW if it was a requirement to SHOW said card (and have it read) before alcohol was sold to you.....it could make a big dent in binge drinking..ok its not going to 100% stop it...but it would make a big difference....

your driving licence could be encoded into it
as could your FAC etc

all on one card, reasonably secure...indeed more secure than at present, in your wallet and to hand....

could it be used for "ill purpose"...well yes I suppose it could...but then any govt wishing so to do could just make them compulsary anyway....and in anycase since virtually every step and thing yo do is know and recorded somewhere in someones data base even now...whats to loose...

every time you go out on your bike they have a fair idea of where you have been, if you go and fill up....anpr has read your plate
anpr reads you into and out of virtually every town...up and down virtually every motorway and A road...

Yeah, perhaps instead of towns we should just have camps, camps where you can live and work, a chip will be inserted for your own good and not simply to monitor the regularity and biological content of your ablutions, but also to deliver life enhancing chemicals directly into your blood, good behaviour gets rewarded with two weeks a year in an "olde England" themed centre park where a Sid James like Major is the compère!

You far right types freak the fucking life out of me

Mass immigration started under Labour...

scrat wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:I dont see what your problem is scrat....


you ALREADY carry what ammonts to an ID card

AND can in many circumstance be made to show it on demand...either by a cop or by the threat of denial of a service until you provide it....

Its called...a driving licence


a cop may in many circumstance require you to identify yourself and if in doubt of your answer hold you till the required proof of identity is provided......(and thats NOT a new law by any means)

A suitable deeply encrypted biometric card could be used for many valid purposes...

take a drunen hooligan who is charged and prosecuted for te umpteenth time...his latest prosecution could be recorded on said card

NOW if it was a requirement to SHOW said card (and have it read) before alcohol was sold to you.....it could make a big dent in binge drinking..ok its not going to 100% stop it...but it would make a big difference....

your driving licence could be encoded into it
as could your FAC etc

all on one card, reasonably secure...indeed more secure than at present, in your wallet and to hand....

could it be used for "ill purpose"...well yes I suppose it could...but then any govt wishing so to do could just make them compulsary anyway....and in anycase since virtually every step and thing yo do is know and recorded somewhere in someones data base even now...whats to loose...

every time you go out on your bike they have a fair idea of where you have been, if you go and fill up....anpr has read your plate
anpr reads you into and out of virtually every town...up and down virtually every motorway and A road...

Yeah, perhaps instead of towns we should just have camps, camps where you can live and work, a chip will be inserted for your own good and not simply to monitor the regularity and biological content of your ablutions, but also to deliver life enhancing chemicals directly into your blood, good behaviour gets rewarded with two weeks a year in an "olde England" themed centre park where a Sid James like Major is the compère!

You far right types freak the fucking life out of me

and what has that hysterical outburst got to do with what I have just said?

perhaps you need to have a lie down in a darkened room and regain your sense of perspective.....

or at least post something constructive


you know like

"well I dissagree for the following reasons.........." and instead i think we should ........"

because you know what...we are only in a stalemate on the war against terror.....even the authorities admit they have been very lucky so far.......

and they have only been lucky because so far the ones we have caught have been stupid, underlings and minions who insist on using modern tech for communications.... .....wait till someone with a few working brain cells gets in the mix...and it WILL happen.....

Lord Foul wrote:

scrat wrote:
Yeah, perhaps instead of towns we should just have camps, camps where you can live and work, a chip will be inserted for your own good and not simply to monitor the regularity and biological content of your ablutions, but also to deliver life enhancing chemicals directly into your blood, good behaviour gets rewarded with two weeks a year in an "olde England" themed centre park where a Sid James like Major is the compère!

You far right types freak the fucking life out of me

and what has that hysterical outburst got to do with what I have just said?

perhaps you need to have a lie down in a darkened room and regain your sense of perspective.....

or at least post something constructive


you know like

"well I dissagree for  the following reasons.........." and instead i think we should ........"

because you know what...we are only in a stalemate on the war against terror.....even the authorities admit they have been very lucky so far.......

and they have only been lucky because so far the ones we have caught have been stupid, underlings and minions who insist on using modern tech for communications.... .....wait till someone with a few working brain cells gets in the mix...and it WILL happen.....

I think you've genuinely forgotten that we're human!

being human aint the problem is it....

staying alive might just be.....

being human aint going to be much of a defence against the intelligent terrorist is it?

your nightmare scenario is as I said in anycase quite acheivable should any ill intentioned govt decide to go down that route.....

what difference does carrying a secure ID card make?

Lord Foul wrote:being human aint the problem is it....

staying alive might just be.....

being human aint going to be much of a defence against the intelligent terrorist is it?

your nightmare scenario is as I said in anycase quite acheivable should any ill intentioned govt decide to go down that route.....

what difference does carrying a secure ID card make?

Do you honestly believe that we're not funding ISIS, not arming them, not training them, not choosing their targets.

Your naivety is that which is dangerous!

I'd have to think what purpose there would be in that?

That sounds like "conspiracy theory" to me

go on....convert me

The war on terror, that campaign without end launched 14 years ago by George Bush, is tying itself up in ever more grotesque contortions. On Monday the trial in London of a Swedish man, Bherlin Gildo, accused of terrorism in Syria, collapsed after it became clear British intelligence had been arming the same rebel groups the defendant was charged with supporting.

The prosecution abandoned the case, apparently to avoid embarrassing the intelligence services. The defence argued that going ahead with the trial would have been an “affront to justice” when there was plenty of evidence the British state was itself providing “extensive support” to the armed Syrian opposition.

That didn’t only include the “non-lethal assistance” boasted of by the government (including body armour and military vehicles), but training, logistical support and the secret supply of “arms on a massive scale”. Reports were cited that MI6 had cooperated with the CIA on a “rat line” of arms transfers from Libyan stockpiles to the Syrian rebels in 2012 after the fall of the Gaddafi regime.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq

A drop in the ocean.

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Of course not, you and your ilk are too busy ranting about immigrants punting out the lies on behalf of the far right.

There was a time when we manufactured bombs to fight wars, now we manufacture war!

Yawn...

Tommy Monk wrote:

Yawn...

Why yawn? Are you not concerned about the rise of the far right!