How older Brits just chose a future their children didn't want

Good morning everyone.

You've awoken to a country which has voted to leave the EU.

You've awoken to a country whose currency has plummeted to a 31 year low.

You've awoken to a country which is inherently divided, and will likely see a Scottish independence referendum shortly.

You've awoken to a country which will probably not have the same Prime Minister for long, and whose opposition party has been rendered essentially irrelevant.

But anyway.

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/how-old-people-have-screwed-over-the-younger-generationin-three-charts--W1AA_n4nEb

Funny, all my Grandkids 12 of 'em voted out. Did you come over and ask them?

nicko wrote:Funny, all my Grandkids 12 of 'em voted out.     Did you come over and ask them?

So your grandkids are the only young people in England?

And mine all voted in, as did a huge majority of young people.

Yeah...sad innit this thing called democracy...where every mans vote counts the same as every others....

Yes, but this was for the future, and the future is theirs, not ours.

Well considering that there is a mix of all age groups through all areas of uk... and more people in the young and middle groups than there are in just the older group...


And most areas voted out with some even as much as 70% out...


Your polls are bullshit!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:Well considering that there is a mix of all age groups through all areas of uk... and more people in the young and middle groups than there are in just the older group...
And most areas voted out with some even as much as 70% out...
Your polls are bullshit!!!

   
Of course they are Tommykins ...unless you are trying to twist your survey/poll into supporting a ugly homophobic ideology that YOU HAVE - then those 'POLLS ARE BRILLIANT' and should be used as a valued tool too support every side of your argument!

TOUCHÉ

Look at the top graph...


Look at the age groups...


Are you telling me that there are more 50-64 year olds than there are 18-49 year olds...?


And considering some areas voted 70% out... the polls are bullshit!!!

They aren't polls, they are the information collected as to how people voted by age groups.

And didn't you know that one of the real problems we have is that there are more old than young?   Probably not, you are not exactly informed are you you Tommy.

Ya, RIGHT ON ...and as with all things that have to be explained to you ...you just keep believing whatever those voices in your head tell you Tommykins! 

sassy wrote:They aren't polls, they are the information collected as to how people voted by age groups.

And didn't you know that one of the real problems we have is that there are more old than young?   Probably not, you are not exactly informed are you you Tommy.

Can you read the writing at the bottom left hand corner of each picture shown in op...!?


What does it say...!?

The poll was of 4,772 adults.

Tommy Monk wrote:Well considering that there is a mix of all age groups through all areas of uk... and more people in the young and middle groups than there are in just the older group...


And most areas voted out with some even as much as 70% out...


Your polls are bullshit!!!

For somebody who supposedly so happy to day, you certainly seem angry ...

They're not my polls, they're yours, by the way.

Happy but just a bit sick of the continued lies and spin and waffle from some...


I wouldn't be surprised if that poll was nothing to do with any genuine opinions but just completely made up!

Trouble is Tommy, you see lies and spin where they don't exist, and don't recognise them when they do.

sassy wrote:Trouble is Tommy, you see lies and spin where they don't exist, and don't recognise them when they do.

Can you give one example of this being true...!?

sassy wrote:Yes, but this was for the future, and the future is theirs, not ours.

Older people do actually have a future you know, unless you think they're all on the scrap heap and should just stay at home and die.

Most oldies like me (I'm 70) are much more concerned about their childen and grandchildren's future than ours.  We have had our fun, our opportunities and life might be great, and it is, but anything that happens at a national level doesn't affect us much.   It damn well affects our grandchildren though, and they are our first concern.

sassy wrote:Most oldies like me (I'm 70) are much more concerned about their childen and grandchildren's future than ours.  We have had our fun, our opportunities and life might be great, and it is, but anything that happens at a national level doesn't affect us much.   It damn well affects our grandchildren though, and they are our first concern.

I'm not as old as you obviously, but speak for yourself when you say you've had your fun. I'm in the 50-64 group, and I intend to have a lot of fun for as long as I can. I also have a future, assuming I don't get struck down. I also have opportunities. You just dismissed several generations of people and pretty much labelled them as finished. Even those over 65 aren't exactly jumping into their graves just yet - a lot of them aren't even retired.

Also, not everyone has grandchildren.

Raggamuffin wrote:

sassy wrote:Most oldies like me (I'm 70) are much more concerned about their childen and grandchildren's future than ours.  We have had our fun, our opportunities and life might be great, and it is, but anything that happens at a national level doesn't affect us much.   It damn well affects our grandchildren though, and they are our first concern.

I'm not as old as you obviously, but speak for yourself when you say you've had your fun. I'm in the 50-64 group, and I intend to have a lot of fun for as long as I can. I also have a future, assuming I don't get struck down. I also have opportunities. You just dismissed several generations of people and pretty much labelled them as finished. Even those over 65 aren't exactly jumping into their graves just yet - a lot of them aren't even retired.

Also, not everyone has grandchildren.

Oh I'm having fun, and doing no end of things, but the national picture is not going to impact on my life, even if I'm here for another 20 years.  No, not everyone has grandchildren, but most have a sense that they are handing on something to the next generation and they want that to be the best possible.

It's the younger who are hit hardest by pressure on jobs and lower wages and higher rents and pressure on public services...

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I'm not as old as you obviously, but speak for yourself when you say you've had your fun. I'm in the 50-64 group, and I intend to have a lot of fun for as long as I can. I also have a future, assuming I don't get struck down. I also have opportunities. You just dismissed several generations of people and pretty much labelled them as finished. Even those over 65 aren't exactly jumping into their graves just yet - a lot of them aren't even retired.

Also, not everyone has grandchildren.

Oh I'm having fun, and doing no end of things, but the national picture is not going to impact on my life, even if I'm here for another 20 years.  No, not everyone has grandchildren, but most have a sense that they are handing on something to the next generation and they want that to be the best possible.

Or perhaps they vote for what suits them - like most people. You don't even know what the impact will be yet. I lived through the Thatcher years, which young people didn't do, and I don't suppose any of them care about those "older" people who did.

You clearly don't have to work, but a lot of older people do, so why the hell should they not think about their own futures?

Actually, I think you will find younger people care a lot.

sassy wrote:Actually, I think you will find younger people care a lot.

About the people who were around in the Thatcher years? I doubt it.

You should really understand that all people are important, and they all have the right to choose for themselves rather than being expected to vote on behalf of others they don't even know.

You know who has an immense following on line and in real life, who is revered by younger people who look up to him, care about him and listen to what happened to him and his advice?   Harry Lesley Smith, in his 90s and an inspiration to loads of young people.

I was a young person back in 1992/3 when this eu was created and we were signed away to it under maastricht treaty... huge transfer of power and sovereignty and control signed over even though we were told at the time that this was not the case... I never got a chance to vote then... and neither did anyone else... if we had we would have voted no then!!!


And we've been waiting 26 years for our chance to vote on it and put things right!!!

Raggamuffin wrote:

sassy wrote:Yes, but this was for the future, and the future is theirs, not ours.

Older people do actually have a future you know, unless you think they're all on the scrap heap and should just stay at home and die.

limited future, that is just reality

the real ramifications come in the next 50 years as the rest of the world forms these economic blocks
they are being established through out the world.

And the UK is not near anyone else

that is part of the reason why the world is surprised and a large part of the reason i call Europeans hill shepherds.
do you not see everyone else

Trade will continue without the eu.

Veya, chances are we'll become closer and bound to America now we are pullng away from Europe. Which is great because America's immediate future is looking absolutely fantastic right?

Eilzel wrote:Veya, chances are we'll become closer and bound to America now we are pullng away from Europe. Which is great because America's immediate future is looking absolutely fantastic right?

exactly, Britain and/or England cannot stand on it's own
really the US is now the only option besides Russia

at least the US are not going too bad economically, but they are never going to give you the access to jobs like the EU did.
that is the biggest loss to young people and future generations

sassy wrote:Most oldies like me (I'm 70) are much more concerned about their childen and grandchildren's future than ours.  We have had our fun, our opportunities and life might be great, and it is, but anything that happens at a national level doesn't affect us much.   It damn well affects our grandchildren though, and they are our first concern.

Incorrect, as that is about as ageist as it gets. Your fun does not stop because you have reached a certain age, or as you seem to be claiming that the elderly should cease to have any fun. As you have invented an imaginary afe limit in order to have fun or even worse hav a say in how the country is run. Basically claiming the elderly, through ageism, have no right to have views in the future for them based on they will in many cases have less time left. I find that appalling to say of the elderly, when many things dirctly involve them in the present. Considering the ellderly are effected by the EU due to uncontrolled immigration, being that they are that much more vunerable to medical illnesses, when there simply is not enough medical facilities to cope with the constant strain on the NHS system. Due to the volume of immigrants coming into the UK each year. You have again, placed the youth of higher importance over that of the elderly, when both rightly should be sen equally under the law. Another fine example where you create ineqaulity. Everything that happens effects everyone, including the elderly, because we are in fact living in the present and we look also to safeguard the future. So you just blatantly have shown one of the many reasons, of which is wrong today. You have no due care for the present and those living in the present. You want to hurdle into the future, when it just simply not possible. As we are far removed from having all the answers and inventions to tackle a mass multitude of possible future issues, at which time and in many cases we can only. Scientists are working hard all the time , to help protect future generations, but there is also the reality. That you cannot protect against unforseen possible issues, we are just unaware of yet.

Priority is first and foremost for the living and the sad reality is that under both Labour and the Tories, they have failed to prioritieze the present. That means eradicating unemployment, housing the homeless, tackling NHS waiting times, helping those with disabilities, refugees etc. The reality is too many people have one foot already in the future when we constantly have failed the present and continue to do so.

As to your point on the younger generation, I see that 75% voted to remain. Which as we always see from generation to generation within the youth, further progression, but this time, due to labour and the Tories. This generation these 75% have been so influence by leftiest double standards, they fail to see the continuing and growing problem ahead. They understand rightly that what is most important in international law, is the right to life, followed by well being and equality. The problem is, these same lefties. Who are over zealous in their criticism of Christianity, in regards to the levels of homophobia taught in this faith, but when it comes to Islam. They instead either look to defend or excuse anti-homosexuality in Islam. How is that defending the equal rights of homosexuals by such a poor stance? To champion criticms and even more importantly understand, that such hate and prejudice, will not be tolerated. As much as it will not be tolerate when there is anti-Muslim bigotry.. The more this stain and continued denial or apologism continues, because they wrongly belieive to challenge bad beliefs will make them bigoted. The more we are sadly going to see this country further divide, hav more people angered, rturn back the clock on equality etc.

You cannot stand against homophobia, if you then defend any religions that teach prejudice and hate against homosexuals. As you make a mockery of claimng to be a champion of the oppressed. When you defend Islam, you oppress homosexuals yourself, by neglecting to be openly critical. As we have sen the same happened in the west for the last few centuries championing and vicalling challenging religious beliefs that wrongly criminalized homosexuality. That helped societies progress, where even religious people. In Christianity, started to disassociate from these aspects in their faith and came to see only a good kind of Christianity, one with very little prejudice. The same is required in islam, which is extremely difficult in Muslim countries as they censur all views that easily reason an callenge many aspects of Islam as poor. What does that say how lacking in faith these Muslim leaders in these countries must be. That they clearly have no faith in the Quran itself to challenge any secular reason around equality. So they invent laws, to protect something they have proven to have zero faith in the message of a god. I mean the Quran and surah's of Allah, are ineffectual and countering challengers, by this stance to censur. As to censur would be based off a fear people will come to see islam, for what it is. That really speaks about how wrong and designed Islam is in order to control people. Sorry, so we have to openly challenge, in the UN, and other bodies to place pressure on many countries to change their laws to protect the well being and equality of groups. Everytime those who defend instead Islam is prejudiced beliefs held. You then further champion the false claim of Islamophobia, to any genuine criticism of Islam. AntiMuslim hate is wrong, a phobia of a made up religious myth that teaches prejudice, like other religions. Is then not based off an irrational fear, but reason. Though as seen, they want to make any critcism of Islam, to not only be viewed as an extreme irrational fear, but to be criminalized This is what the left fail to grasp and the reality is, these many youths, will now grow up unable to do what the the previous generations did. That was stand up to opression, prejudice and discrimination. A lie and spin has been led in order to protect islam bad beliefs from any views made about it at all. Unprecidented in the modern age, when there are so many concepts and beliefs we openly challenge. The Arab nations have even tried to force through a resolution.

Defamation of belies wrote:For ten years, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) pushed for a U.N. resolution to make defamation of religion a criminal offense. The Saudi-based, 57-member group’s purpose was to make an international law that would criminalize freedom of speech and freedom of expression when it comes to matters deemed critical of or offensive to Islam or Muslims. Standards for the resolution were (naturally) drawn from Islamic, Sharia, law.

I mean imagine this, of which the left constantly champion doing, when they fail to challenge bad aspects of Islam?
Not only would this leave many groups who have no equality laws that protect them in many Muslim majority countries. Woul see an increase in inequality, where it woould go into reverse by enshringing inequality into a UN resolution. (Even though they are not legal by international law, it would mean if passd, that those who voted for this resolution would then pressured to introduce such laws into their own nations. What then will happen to homosexuals or equality itself?. As then, as you now cannot challenge Islam, whre there has been a hate crime comitted against a homosexual by an extremist Muslim.  How can you then charge any extremist Muslim, as they will then say its a part of their beliefs, of which you would be unable to challenge even in court. Islam teaches homosexuality is a sin and should be punishable by death in many doctrines of islam. This would have to be the most appalling stunt engineered in history in order to sheild islamic beliefs, which allow them to base their sharia laws on absolute and now legally binding morals backed by the Un if passed. if such a measure was ever passed. This is the danger people fail to see with the Islamist world. Many Muslims are good people, but because again people are too afraid to be critical of Islamism, political Islam, another concept and belief. Which again if this measure was passed. Would ensure that Sharia law, would then be protected for the future. As again Political islam is born from Islamic doctrine.

So its time, people started showing a united front, to condemn all bad beliefs, and where they stem from.
For example, misogamy is taught with the Abrahamic faiths. No such prejudice should ever be exempt from criticism, with a threat that you do, you will be criminalized. Thise who champion equality should unite to not only condenm, but be highly critical of this prejudice found within these beliefs systems. The minute you claim there is no misogamy in Islam, is surrendering equality to a mythical belief and rendering the rights of women secondary to that of something that only exists on paper, not even physically existing. A belief system. Humans should be protected from hate, beliefs should never be protected, as we would then never have been able to challenge racism, homophobia, sexism etc. The damage Labour hav done to our youth has left many believeing they should defend islam from any criticism.


You say about the future sassy. Well that future is not going to bring equality, but further inequality. if people are being taught the worst double standard to place as a top priority, a defense of a religious belief system over that of people themselves in the form of groups that suffer inequality. Its time many people asked themselves what they truly believe and back in regards to equality. I will always defend the right of a homosexual from homosexual prejudice, though I do not have to protect his views on racism  from any critcism and anger he may recieve based on his racist views. He has actively made a choice to be racist, just as religious people have a choice whether to believe or not. Both are beliefs, and this should be open season to criticism and condemnation. I will however rightly defend  religious people if they suffer any prejudice and discrimination for having a belief. Even the racist, not matter how abhorant his views, has the same protection equally under the law to be protected from any prejudice and discrimination against him based on him being a racist. So again its people that we are protecting and no matter the beliefs, they have a right to be treated equally. If though again you instead look to defend bad beliefs Political or religious. You are then in fact in total conflict with equality, where like i said, completely failing groups that suffer inequality. Such a move to protect islam from any challenges would as seen clash with already existing laws. You would then turn the clock backwards on progression. Which in turn would and as we have seen, lead to a rise in anti-Muslim bigotry, with as problematic, a rise in Muslims who are islamists residing here, which also would add fuel and groth to Far right groups. This has been the effect of left wing apologism when they fail to condemn bad beliefs and instead defend the religion or excuse the religion..

And you wonder why people voted in the majoirty to leave Sassy the EU
People are fed up of not only being lied to on a great many things politically, economically, but the actual rise in diseffected people in this country can as a major factor to the rise of diseffected people in this country. When you get left wing councils cover up child sex crimes, because they place the defence of suspected multi ethnic criminals, over that of the actual victims. Then there is the constant abuse applying Political correctness by countless lefties that conflict with Political correctness. They countless times again elevate one said group above others, again denying equality.

PC definition wrote:political correctness
noun
noun: political correctness; noun: political correctitude

   the avoidance of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against..

Now i back the principle of PC, but it is constantly abuse by the left, who fail to see they often conflict with its principles, because they constantly end up marginalizing and insult other group when they do. So they claim PC, when countless times those applied, fail to meet the criteria of PC. This is just one of numereous examples. Where constantly those on the left actually surrender equality to a fear that investigating a crime is of a lesser importance, that they might have some people shout racism. And these outrageous lies based on a false fear that ended up for years protecting the guilty parties and left the victims continuing to suffer further. Having equality under the law. means applying this to all under the law. That means an emotion like fear should not take precedent over that of an investigation. Just in order to place defending against a rise on antiMuslim bigotry, due to the leading suspects being Muslim. If they had any sense, Islam, like Christianity teaches against unmarried sex. Which in this instance would not render Islam being a possible root cause to the blame. I mean see how bad that double standward was, the victims accounts were rendered of less importance, being denied equality under law. So the left could protect a elevate a minority community. Who by such an afront to equality and th victims, by covering up. Actually ended up vastly increasing anti-Muslim bigotry, because they had been seen to defend Muslims, in the eyes of many in the public, which were later found guilty.

So there is the reason and a major reason why also people voted to leave, mainly as so many more people are getting sick and tired of thre Far left undemocratic concepts that clash with and deny groups haveing equality under the law. All this and other Laboir double standards is one of the major rise in people being disgruntled. As the left in this country by the failings and view to constantly conflict with equality by elevating certain minorities above everyone else. Its people within Laboour, in the leadership, in the media in the Uk, that people have come to how they constantly conflict with progressive secular concepts land even worse render equality redundent.

+1

Total load of bullshiting bollocks.

nicko wrote:+1

Thanks Nicko,

Quite surprised at myself for writing that in the early hours, after just coming back from a lovely dinner that had everyone chatting and laughing until stupid o'clock this morning. Great night though
As i say, this is the major issue with the Labour Party in the UK and under Jeremy Corbyn, the problems will continually get woirse.

Decent parents and grandparents always put what is best for their children/grandchildren before what is good for them.   It's wired in to most people.

sassy wrote:Decent parents and grandparents always put what is best for their children/grandchildren before what is good for them.   It's wired in to most people.

Decent is subjective, based upon who is deciding and you simply have no idea what he future will hold on this.
Before the referendum, I posted the views of an economic expert, who stated that anyone stating they know what will happen after the referendum, have simply no idea what they are talking about. Again its you lefties that have push people to much more than anything with your costand double standards and attempting to eradicate equality. that has seen the Uk leave the EU, of which again I wanted to remain. Again you are arguing and backing inequality with your view based off people being in disagreement with you. I see you simply had zero answer to my points and the fact you were blatantly ageist

Mass immigration is pushing up cost of living and driving down wages plus making standard of living worse for all of us but especially younger people...choose are struggling to get jobs because of the influx...