"...The Orlando LGBT nightclub killer described himself as an “Islamic soldier” out to avenge the US war on the Islamic State, according to his phone conversations with police during the 12 June massacre..."

by Tommy Monk Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:29 am

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:34 am

Plagiarizing - AGAIN ...good grief; your lesson in community forum needs a kick start every day?

WHERE IS THE LINK, FFS?
And duplication of topics because you can't read is very 'LAME' Twisted Evil

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:32 am

Simple reasoning to this

islam teaches to hate homosexuality is main stream islam

It teaches that Muhammad executed homosexuals

Muslims are taught to emulate Muhammad

Its not rocket science to work out the cause and motivation of the hate

Religion

by eddie Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:28 am

Supply a link please Tommy

by SEXY MAMA Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:34 am

FUCKING BS AS USUAL

by SEXY MAMA Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:36 am

No where in the Quran it mentions anything about Killing homosexuals.

If the case was true Muslims in Orlando wouldn't be giving blood for the victims!

by Tommy Monk Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:51 pm

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/06/21/world/crime-legal-world/chilling-calm-deliberate-orlando-killer-boasts-islamic-soldier-911-transcripts/#.V2lFkXRwbqB

And he pledged his support to isis and leader al Baghdadi...

by Tommy Monk Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:53 pm

http://www.debka.com/newsupdatepopup/16749/Omar-Mateen-described-himself-as-Islamic-soldier-in-911-calls

by Tommy Monk Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:58 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36581319

by Tommy Monk Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:00 pm

But I got the quote from here...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/20/omar-mateen-911-calls-orlando-shooting-fbi-release-isis

by Tommy Monk Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:27 pm

4EVER2 wrote:Plagiarizing - AGAIN ...good grief; your lesson in community forum needs a kick start every day?

WHERE IS THE LINK, FFS?
And duplication of topics because you can't read is very 'LAME'

Hardly plagarising... the quote is in speech marks showing it is a quote from elsewhere... and the source is given as 'his phone conversations with police during the 12 June massacre'...

by eddie Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:36 pm

Thank you Tommy

by eddie Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:54 pm

Clipped from something 4ever posted:

We know the shooter was a radical Islamist extremist inspired by ISIS," an angry Ryan said in a statement. "We also know he intentionally targeted the LGBT community. The administration should release the full, unredacted transcript so the public is clear-eyed about who did this, and why."
Meanwhile, NBC News has learned that, so far, federal investigators following Mateen's paper trail have found no evidence to back up claims that the gunman had ever been inside Pulse or any of gay nightclub in Orlando before the June 12 mass shooting.
What they have found, sources told NBC, is that the married Mateen recently used websites to get dates with women — not men.
Noor Salman has told investigators she once drove her husband to Pulse so he could scope it out and regulars at the nightclub have reported seeing him there.

The newly-released transcripts revealed that Mateen paused from the slaughter inside the Pulse nightclub to call the Orlando police and confess to his crime.
"Praise be to God, and prayers as well as peace be upon the prophet of God," Omar Mateen said in a transcript of his call to police dispatchers that the FBI released on Monday. "I let you know, I'm in Orlando and I did the shootings."

Asked for his name, Mateen answered: "My name is I pledge of allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi of the Islamic State."
That chilling admission was among the excerpts of the 911 calls the feds released along with a timeline of the terror at the gay nightclub that left 49 dead and more than 50 people wounded.

So are they now claiming this wasn't ever a homophobic crime?

by Tommy Monk Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:04 pm

Did you watch Owen jones walk out of sky news 'press preview' show at the pc waffle of others trying to say it wasn't a homophobic hate crime or anything to do with islam . ?

Most amusing!!!

by Tommy Monk Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:06 pm

Oh... and let's not forget the admission from his wife to FBI that she had driven him up to club before to case it out... and she said she tried to talk him out of it retook didn't she?

by eddie Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:10 pm

But you see what I'm saying Tommy? The media have put out two stories and made them both sound real and made people divided over which it is: Muslim terrorist or homophobe?

They do this all the time.

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:13 pm

eddie wrote:But you see what I'm saying Tommy? The media have put out two stories and made them both sound real and made people divided over which it is: Muslim terrorist or homophobe?

They do this all the time.

You are claiming the media is all working as one company.
So when a story breaks are you telling me that within any crime, robbery, riot etc, you do not getting differing accounts?
Even on gossip?
For goodness sake, these media sources have different people gathering their information
So they are reliant on who gives this information, which in the early statges of such an incident is always going to be sketchy
How can you not understand that?

by eddie Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:17 pm

I understand that small snippets get tangled up and confused - I allow for that of course.
But big things, and days later??

No. Don't buy it.

The FBI knew him well apparently and there was no need for the story to get twisted unless it was intentional.

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:20 pm

eddie wrote:I understand that small snippets get tangled up and confused - I allow for that of course.
But big things, and days later??

No. Don't buy it.

The FBI knew him well apparently and there was no need for the story to get twisted unless it was intentional.

What big things and who decides if they are big
Again in the intial stages there is always conflicting accounts and you are going off conflictions to when then laters facts are stated.
That is not big things but to clarify what actually happened as the initial accounts are always sketchy
I have gone over the FBI point to you on the other thread.
Please read my reply, so I do not have to continue to repeat myself simply because you have failed to do so

by Tommy Monk Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:25 pm

eddie wrote:But you see what I'm saying Tommy? The media have put out two stories and made them both sound real and made people divided over which it is: Muslim terrorist or homophobe?

They do this all the time.

Muslim terrorist deliberatly attacking homosexuals because of his Islamic beliefs... isis throw them off the top of buildings...

by Original Quill Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:38 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
eddie wrote:But you see what I'm saying Tommy? The media have put out two stories and made them both sound real and made people divided over which it is: Muslim terrorist or homophobe?

They do this all the time.

Muslim terrorist deliberatly attacking homosexuals because of his Islamic beliefs... isis throw them off the top of buildings...

That wouldn't be news, tommy. That would be spin.

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:43 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Muslim terrorist deliberatly attacking homosexuals because of his Islamic beliefs... isis throw them off the top of buildings...

That wouldn't be news, tommy. That would be spin.

Are Muslims taught to emulate Muhammad?

Yes or No?

by Original Quill Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:22 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

That wouldn't be news, tommy. That would be spin.

Are Muslims taught to emulate Muhammad?

Yes or No?

Who were his teachers? What did they tell him? I daresay you have never met any of them, nor are you able to tell us what they taught about Muhammad. You don't know, nor do I.

That is too abstruse an argument to be relevant. It is typical of your haphazard reasoning. How well did the shooter understand the Koran? How did he hear what Muhammad said? Was it direct knowledge, or hearsay?

More to the point is what he said. Follow that...it's direct evidence.

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:25 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:

Are Muslims taught to emulate Muhammad?

Yes or No?

Who were his teachers? What did they tell him? I daresay you have never met any of them, nor are you able to tell us what they taught about Muhammad. You don't know, nor do I.

That is too abstruse an argument to be relevant. It is typical of your haphazard reasoning. How well did the shooter understand the Koran? How did he hear what Muhammad said? Was it direct knowledge, or hearsay?

More to the point is what he said. Follow that...it's direct evidence.

i asked you a simple question and I am not even talking about the Quran, which is only part of islamic doctrine for the vast majority of Muslims. In fact there is not much about Muhammad within the Quran, and thus views of his life come from unreliable hadiths. The point is though is whether Muslims believe certain hadiths, to be actual deeds carried out by Muhammad.
So again

Are Muslims taught to emulate Muhammad?

Yes or No?

by SEXY MAMA Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:25 pm

Didge wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

That wouldn't be news, tommy. That would be spin.

Are Muslims taught to emulate Muhammad?

Yes or No?

Give evidence

If the prophet hated homosexuals the Muslim community wouldn't have given blood
I did state this before and as usual you ignored it.

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:30 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Didge wrote:

Are Muslims taught to emulate Muhammad?

Yes or No?

Give evidence

If the prophet hated homosexuals the Muslim community wouldn't have given blood
I did state this before and as usual you ignored it.

Are you saying Muslims do not believe hadiths like this?

Not saying all do but certainly other Muslims do.

Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.
Abu Dawud 38:4447

Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.
Abu Dawud 38:4448

Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver.
Tirmidhi 1:152

It was narrated from Ibn`Abbas that the Messenger of Allah said: “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Lut, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.” (Hasan)
Ibn Majah 3:20:2561

It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Prophet said concerning those who do the action of the people of Lut: “Stone the upper and the lower, stone them both.” (Hasan)
Ibn Majah 3:20:2562

Malik related to me that he asked Ibn Shihab about someone who committed sodomy. Ibn Shihab said, "He is to be stoned, whether or not he is muhsan."
Al-Muwatta 41 41.111

Scholars

And when two of you (read wa’lladhāni or wa’lladhānni) men, commit it, that is, a lewd act, adultery or homosexual intercourse, punish them both, with insults and beatings with sandals; but if they repent, of this [lewd act], and make amends, through [good] action, then leave them be, and do not harm them. God ever turns [relenting], to those who repent, and is Merciful, to them. This [verse] is abrogated by the prescribed punishment if adultery is meant [by the lewd act], and similarly if homosexual intercourse is meant, according to al-Shāfi‘ī; but according to him, the person who is the object of the [penetrative] act is not stoned, even if he be married; rather, he is flogged and banished. Judging by the dual person pronoun, it seems more obvious that homosexual fornication is meant [by this verse], even though the former [sc. al-Shāfi‘ī] was of the opinion that it referred to an adulterer and an adulteress; but this [opinion of his] may be countered by the fact that [the reference to] the two [men] becomes clear on account of the particle min being attached to a masculine pronoun [minkum, ‘of you’], and by the fact that they suffer the same punishment, [both effect the action of] repentance and [are both granted] that they be left alone [thereafter], [all of] which applies specifically to men, given that for women detention is stipulated, as was stated before.
"Surah 4 Ayah 16" (archived)
Feras Hamza (trans.), Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Tafsir al-Jalalayn.

(And the two persons among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, punish them both. [Qur'an 4:16]) Ibn `Abbas and Sa`id bin Jubayr said that this punishment includes cursing, shaming them and beating them with sandals. This was the ruling until Allah abrogated it with flogging or stoning, as we stated. Mujahid said, "It was revealed about the case of two men who do it." As if he was referring to the actions of the people of Lut, and Allah knows best. The collectors of Sunan recorded that Ibn `Abbas said that the Messenger of Allah said,

«مَنْ رَأَيْتُمُوهُ يَعْمَلُ عَمَلَ قَوْمِ لُوطٍ، فَاقْتُلُوا الْفَاعِلَ وَالْمَفْعُولَ بِه»
(Whoever you catch committing the act of the people of Lut (homosexuality), then kill both parties to the act.)
"The Adulteress is Confined in her House; A Command Later Abrogated" (archived)
Tafsir Ibn Kathir.

i could go on the list is endless, but if views such as this are taught as deeds by Muhammad then it is of no surprise and where people are taught to emulate Muahmmad that we see not only homosexuality punishable by death in Muslim nations but that people believe that it is a just act to execute homosexuals. This is the problem with the hadiths, as they render the Quran redundent, as nowhere within the Quran does it even speak of homosexulity, and thus viewing such hadiths is deifying them to the level of the Surah's of Allah. This is why Islam has so many problems. Now you and other Muslims may not believe these hadiths but countless others do and why Islam has so many problems

by 'Wolfie Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:35 pm

eddie wrote:
But you see what I'm saying Tommy? The media have put out two stories and made them both sound real and made people divided over which it is: Muslim terrorist or homophobe?

They do this all the time.

"...The Orlando LGBT nightclub killer described himself as an “Islamic soldier” out to avenge the US war on the Islamic State, according to his phone conversations with police during the 12 June massacre..." 3489511464

YEP...

IT'S ALL one big international conspiracy, don't y'all know !!!

After Prince Phillip, Anna Merkel, Rupert Murdoch and the Pope had lunch last week; they sent out orders to the CIA and MI6, demanding that a mass shooting in the US and a timely political assassination in England would be just the ticket to sway Britain in the Brexit vote, get Big Mal re-elected over here, and boost Prez Obama's anti-gun crusades..

Eddie and Tommy says so, so it must be true !

"...The Orlando LGBT nightclub killer described himself as an “Islamic soldier” out to avenge the US war on the Islamic State, according to his phone conversations with police during the 12 June massacre..." 919144451

by SEXY MAMA Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:37 pm

No they don't render the Quran redundant!

Nothing is greater than the Quran
Nothing

And the Quran doesn't talk about punishing the homosexuals.

Hence why I said the Muslim community went out and gave blood to the victims

What does that show you?

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:43 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:No they don't render the Quran redundant!

Nothing is greater than the Quran
Nothing

And the Quran doesn't talk about punishing the homosexuals.

Hence why I said the Muslim community went out and gave blood to the victims

What does that show you?

If that is the case then why are they then taking so called deeds of Muhammad to superscede the Quran?
The Quran states nothing on homosexuality and states lot (plagerism from the bible), and speaks of no punishement
So if Muslims have for centuries made into law the criminalization of homosexuals, when no such thing exists in the Quran.
They are supersceding the Quran and making the quran redundent.
So some Muslims are good people and progressives that I back 100% who assisted with giving blood
This is about the Muslims that back dodgy historical accounts of Muhammad and place these as if surah's of allah
The Quran is meant to be the word of your deity, and is meant to be the last message, thus complete and perfect.
If homosexuality was meant to be punished, then why leave this out of a so called perfect book?
That means Musliums constantly elevate unreliable accounts of the life of Muhammad to the level of their own deity in a status of commands

by Original Quill Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:44 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
eddie wrote:
But you see what I'm saying Tommy? The media have put out two stories and made them both sound real and made people divided over which it is: Muslim terrorist or homophobe?

They do this all the time.

YEP...

IT'S ALL one big international conspiracy, don't y'all know !!!

After Prince Phillip, Anna Merkel, Rupert Murdoch and the Pope had lunch last week; they sent out orders to the CIA and MI6, demanding that a mass shooting in the US and a timely political assassination in England would be just the ticket to sway Britain in the Brexit vote, get Big Mal re-elected over here, and boost Prez Obama's anti-gun crusades..

Eddie and Tommy says so, so it must be true !

Eddie is doing an honest job. Tommy is up to his usual cherry-picking. But what is amazing is the narcissistic efforts of our friend didge. He can't make a point and give substantiation for it; he's got to write History of the World and Everything in it all over again. And of course, it's the world according to garp...I mean didge.

So much wasted server space is used on him. Someone should just teach him the rules of relevance. Did Muhammad really speak to this guy? If not, it's hearsay. A little lesson in direct evidence wouldn't hurt either.

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:46 pm

Original Quill wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

YEP...

IT'S ALL one big international conspiracy, don't y'all know !!!

After Prince Phillip, Anna Merkel, Rupert Murdoch and the Pope had lunch last week; they sent out orders to the CIA and MI6, demanding that a mass shooting in the US and a timely political assassination in England would be just the ticket to sway Britain in the Brexit vote, get Big Mal re-elected over here, and boost Prez Obama's anti-gun crusades..

Eddie and Tommy says so, so it must be true !

Eddie is doing an honest job. Tommy is up to his usual cherry-picking. But what is amazing is the narcissistic efforts of our friend didge. He can't make a point and give substantiation for it; he's got to write History of the World and Everything in it all over again. And of course, it's the world according to garp...I mean didge.

So much wasted server space is used on him. Someone should just teach him the rules of relevance. Did Muhammad really speak to this guy? If not, it's hearsay. A little lesson in direct evidence wouldn't hurt either.

And you end up speaking around me when you cannot answer my points

That shows you are being a copout and looking to do the left motto
Deflect, divert and cover up

Please continue, as everytime you do this, you show yourself in a very poor light Quill

by SEXY MAMA Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:47 pm

If someone wants to do something evil they will find a way and a reason it's really that simple.

If it was an issue with Muslims they wouldn't have given blood and that important issue is what you keep missing out on.

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:52 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:If someone wants to do something evil they will find a way and a reason it's really that simple.

If it was an issue with Muslims they wouldn't have given blood and that important issue is what you keep missing out on.

Define evil?

To the Muslims who believes in these verse and so called deeds of Muhammad, they will not class them as evil acts but righteous
This has been the problem in regards to religion for centuries and not just within Islam
Again going off what some Muslims have done is ignoring those who believe homosexuals should be killed.
So you are trying to cover up this issue within islam
That does not mean all Muslims are bad and in fact we should encourage progressive and secular Muslims.
The point is though, you are blatantly ignoring that because Muslims are taught to emulate Muhammad and believe homosexuals are to be put to death. Then its of no surprise wes ee throughout history homosexuals being put to death, because there simply is little to challenge this view

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:52 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:No they don't render the Quran redundant!

Nothing is greater than the Quran
Nothing

And the Quran doesn't talk about punishing the homosexuals.

Hence why I said the Muslim community went out and gave blood to the victims

What does that show you?

It gets so mentally exhausting ...watching/reading the continual rantings from someone so fixated about the 'hate Muslims' that all of the vile rhetoric he choses is from the 'VILE TERRORISTS' that twist the Old Teachings of Muhammad into something that they use to vilify their own agenda. Rather similar to those in the Christian Faith that will use the 'Old Testament' to brow beat humanity for not following how/what/why 'they' feel the OLD TESTAMENT is the true word of god and should be followed to the 9th degree.

Anyone that really cared to be educated about the teachings of Muhammed and what the Quran teachings have evolved into as Muhammed himself aged ...would be much better served if they chose a better source for their information instead of the 'vile/hate/mongering terrorist organizations' that have twisted Muhammed's Ideology into justification for killing infidel's that they do not approve of!

But that's just the limited - lay humans opinion based on the few young Muslims & Islamic humans I've taken the time to actually have a face-to-face verbal discussion about the differences in Christian and their religion teachings ...fascinating when one opens the MIND!

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:53 pm

4EVER2 wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:No they don't render the Quran redundant!

Nothing is greater than the Quran
Nothing

And the Quran doesn't talk about punishing the homosexuals.

Hence why I said the Muslim community went out and gave blood to the victims

What does that show you?

It gets so mentally exhausting ...watching/reading the continual rantings from someone so fixated about the 'hate Muslims' that all of the vile rhetoric he choses is from the 'VILE TERRORISTS' that twist the Old Teachings of Muhammad into something that they use to vilify their own agenda. Rather similar to those in the Christian Faith that will use the 'Old Testament' to brow beat humanity for not following how/what/why 'they' feel the OLD TESTAMENT is the true word of god and should be followed to the 9th degree.

Anyone that really cared to be educated about the teachings of Muhammed and what the Quran teachings have evolved into as Muhammed himself aged ...would be much better served if they chose a better source for their information instead of the 'vile/hate/mongering terrorist organizations' that have twisted Muhammed's Ideology into justification for killing infidel's that they do not approve of!

But that's just the limited - lay humans opinion based on the few young Muslims & Islamic humans I've taken the time to actually have a face-to-face verbal discussion about the differences in Christian and their religion teachings ...fascinating when one opens the MIND!

The left mnotto

Divert, deflect and cover up

Try answering my points

Are you saying Muslims do not believe hadiths like this?

Not saying all do but certainly other Muslims do.

Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot's people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.
Abu Dawud 38:4447

Narated By Abdullah ibn Abbas : If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.
Abu Dawud 38:4448

Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver.
Tirmidhi 1:152

It was narrated from Ibn`Abbas that the Messenger of Allah said: “Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Lut, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.” (Hasan)
Ibn Majah 3:20:2561

It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Prophet said concerning those who do the action of the people of Lut: “Stone the upper and the lower, stone them both.” (Hasan)
Ibn Majah 3:20:2562

Malik related to me that he asked Ibn Shihab about someone who committed sodomy. Ibn Shihab said, "He is to be stoned, whether or not he is muhsan."
Al-Muwatta 41 41.111

Scholars

And when two of you (read wa’lladhāni or wa’lladhānni) men, commit it, that is, a lewd act, adultery or homosexual intercourse, punish them both, with insults and beatings with sandals; but if they repent, of this [lewd act], and make amends, through [good] action, then leave them be, and do not harm them. God ever turns [relenting], to those who repent, and is Merciful, to them. This [verse] is abrogated by the prescribed punishment if adultery is meant [by the lewd act], and similarly if homosexual intercourse is meant, according to al-Shāfi‘ī; but according to him, the person who is the object of the [penetrative] act is not stoned, even if he be married; rather, he is flogged and banished. Judging by the dual person pronoun, it seems more obvious that homosexual fornication is meant [by this verse], even though the former [sc. al-Shāfi‘ī] was of the opinion that it referred to an adulterer and an adulteress; but this [opinion of his] may be countered by the fact that [the reference to] the two [men] becomes clear on account of the particle min being attached to a masculine pronoun [minkum, ‘of you’], and by the fact that they suffer the same punishment, [both effect the action of] repentance and [are both granted] that they be left alone [thereafter], [all of] which applies specifically to men, given that for women detention is stipulated, as was stated before.
"Surah 4 Ayah 16" (archived)
Feras Hamza (trans.), Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Tafsir al-Jalalayn.

(And the two persons among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, punish them both. [Qur'an 4]) Ibn `Abbas and Sa`id bin Jubayr said that this punishment includes cursing, shaming them and beating them with sandals. This was the ruling until Allah abrogated it with flogging or stoning, as we stated. Mujahid said, "It was revealed about the case of two men who do it." As if he was referring to the actions of the people of Lut, and Allah knows best. The collectors of Sunan recorded that Ibn `Abbas said that the Messenger of Allah said,

«مَنْ رَأَيْتُمُوهُ يَعْمَلُ عَمَلَ قَوْمِ لُوطٍ، فَاقْتُلُوا الْفَاعِلَ وَالْمَفْعُولَ بِه»
(Whoever you catch committing the act of the people of Lut (homosexuality), then kill both parties to the act.)
"The Adulteress is Confined in her House; A Command Later Abrogated" (archived)
Tafsir Ibn Kathir.

i could go on the list is endless, but if views such as this are taught as deeds by Muhammad then it is of no surprise and where people are taught to emulate Muahmmad that we see not only homosexuality punishable by death in Muslim nations but that people believe that it is a just act to execute homosexuals. This is the problem with the hadiths, as they render the Quran redundent, as nowhere within the Quran does it even speak of homosexulity, and thus viewing such hadiths is deifying them to the level of the Surah's of Allah. This is why Islam has so many problems. Now you and other Muslims may not believe these hadiths but countless others do and why Islam has so many problems

by SEXY MAMA Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:01 pm

Didge

Can you find any evedience that the prophet killed gays?

Any at all?

I'm not talking about the stuff you posted
I'm talking about actual hadiths stating Mohzmmed pbuh actually exicuted them.

You keep saying Muslims are taught to copy Mohammed so go on let's see it.

Because there isn't any.

So your point is mute

Case closed

by Miffs2 Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:01 pm

Why does it have to be one or the other? It's both, radical Islamist, who following his religion, is homophobic.

by SEXY MAMA Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:03 pm

4EVER2 wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:No they don't render the Quran redundant!

Nothing is greater than the Quran
Nothing

And the Quran doesn't talk about punishing the homosexuals.

Hence why I said the Muslim community went out and gave blood to the victims

What does that show you?

It gets so mentally exhausting ...watching/reading the continual rantings from someone so fixated about the 'hate Muslims' that all of the vile rhetoric he choses is from the 'VILE TERRORISTS' that twist the Old Teachings of Muhammad into something that they use to vilify their own agenda. Rather similar to those in the Christian Faith that will use the 'Old Testament' to brow beat humanity for not following how/what/why 'they' feel the OLD TESTAMENT is the true word of god and should be followed to the 9th degree.

Anyone that really cared to be educated about the teachings of Muhammed and what the Quran teachings have evolved into as Muhammed himself aged ...would be much better served if they chose a better source for their information instead of the 'vile/hate/mongering terrorist organizations' that have twisted Muhammed's Ideology into justification for killing infidel's that they do not approve of!

But that's just the limited - lay humans opinion based on the few young Muslims & Islamic humans I've taken the time to actually have a face-to-face verbal discussion about the differences in Christian and their religion teachings ...fascinating when one opens the MIND!

It is. I'm glad you took the time to meet them and discussed issues
Most on here have never met a single Muslim and base their opinions on the anti Muslim newspaper that brain washes them lol

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:05 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:Didge

Can you find any evedience that the prophet killed gays?

Any at all?

I'm not talking about the stuff you posted
I'm talking about actual hadiths stating Mohzmmed pbuh actually exicuted them.

You keep saying Muslims are taught to copy Mohammed so go on let's see it.

Because there isn't any.

So your point is mute

Case closed

Absurd reasoning.

It does not matter whether I can or not, as its whether Muslims believe he did or not and many Muslims believe that he did.

The onus is on those who believe to show it happened not me

This is your problem you refuse to accep there is many problems within Islam over what is believed, espcially in regards to hadiths

So my point is why we have seen sadly homosexuals persecuted by Muslims, Christians and Jews for the last 2,500 years.

Are you saying Muhammad is not an example to follow or is taught?

“Wammaa arsalnaaka illaa rahmatal lil- aalameen! (21:107).” [O Muhammad We sent you not, but as a mercy for all creature.” Allah asserted in clear words—He created Prophet Muhammad as the mercy for not only just Muslims, but for all the creatures of the earth. Prophet of Islam was the true example of a perfect (having all the best qualities) human being and Qur’an ordered all human being to emulate this prophet ‘in Toto’ without any failure.

All Muslims are required to accept and adhere to all of the teachings of Prophet Muhammad. Allah told Muslims in the Qur’an-(8:24): “O you who believe! Answer Allah (by obeying Him) and As His Messenger (obeying him) when he calls you to that which will give you life.” Therefore, pious Muslims should follow Prophet Muhammad in every aspect of earthly life. Well, these are only a few examples of instructions from Almighty Allah that I have mentioned above. But one could find many more Qur’anic verses and Hadiths, which will instruct all most the same order again and again.

by Original Quill Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:07 pm

Miffs2 wrote:Why does it have to be one or the other? It's both, radical Islamist, who following his religion, is homophobic.

That's what I believe. This was just a confused individual who mixed a dozen different angry sentiments together to come up with these 'hot-crossed buns'.

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:10 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Miffs2 wrote:Why does it have to be one or the other? It's both, radical Islamist, who following his religion, is homophobic.

That's what I believe. This was just a confused individual who mixed a dozen different angry sentiments together to come up with these 'hot-crossed buns'.

Confused is where it all starts, an insecurity of death, as without fear, there would be no reason in order to believe in these faiths.
Fear is ther main requirement that plays off punishment, that if you do not follow or believe, then you will suffer eternally.
These religions plays off the worst insecurities within humans
Death itself
So where fear is used as a control as it is within many religions, people then wrongly believe for example that to kill homosexuals is to themr righteous, because they are taught it is a just act

by SEXY MAMA Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:11 pm

Nope my reasoning isn't absurd at all.

I have an open mind and I base my opinion on knowledge

Knowledge is power

Anyway so you couldn't find one single document if the prophet killing gays?

All his life has been documented yet you couldn't find a single Hadith stating such

What does that show you?

That it never took place.

So no point in going round in circles

FYI Pakistan has gay imams and mosques.

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:16 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:Nope my reasoning isn't absurd at all.

I have an open mind and I base my opinion on knowledge

Knowledge is power

Anyway so you couldn't find one single document if the prophet killing gays?

All his life has been documented yet you couldn't find a single Hadith stating such

What does that show you?

That it never took place.

So no point in going round in circles

FYI Pakistan has gay imams and mosques.

You have a very closed mind, because if you viewed and questioned your religion as you would do any other faith, you simply would not believe.

Its called the outsider test

Again fear is a requirement within the Abrahamic faiths in order for people to believe, as are you saying you do not fear Allah?

I showed hadiths believed by Muslims, plenty of them and you are just now badly trying to deny them. It does not matter if you view them as unreliable, as plenty Muslims do view them as reliable and to emulate Muhammad.

His life is so poorly known about because most of the texts we have on his life comes centuries later after the events, so you have no idea what he did in his life
The sources are unreliable and you are still neglecting the fact that for 1400 years homosexuality has been criminalized within islam.

Why would it be if not for many Muslims thinking such a act is punishable by death?

Answer me why it is a criminal offense in many Muslim majority countries?

Glad to see progression in pakistan, even though they thwarted a bill to punish those who marry child brides, which still renders its policies abhorant.

So your defense is one country progressing, what about all the other homosexuals who live in constant fear in Muslim countries, do they not count?

Answer me that?

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:03 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:Nope my reasoning isn't absurd at all.
I have an open mind and I base my opinion on knowledge
Knowledge is power
Anyway so you couldn't find one single document if the prophet killing gays?
All his life has been documented yet you couldn't find a single Hadith stating such
What does that show you?
That it never took place.
So no point in going round in circles
FYI Pakistan has gay imams and mosques.

Amusing and yet sad at the same time; that the rhetoric that is being used to broad brush the largest faith based group in the entire world filters down into a single few snippets that Didge utilizes as his FOUNDATION for his 'hate Muslim rants' as if he's in the right and all he has is a few stands of the camel hair --- not near enough to make a full grown camel!
Click on any one of these or look on BING/GOOGLE >
Mosques In Britain Open Their Doors To The Public
Boston Mosques Open Their Doors To Other Faiths
Southern California Mosques Open Their Doors

We are reading and hearing about more 'Unitarian Faith Based' groups being invited to use the local Mosques as their place of service when they {for whatever reasons} haven't been able to obtain a building or could afford a building.

That's what the Muslims in America have been doing and will do ...along with many - many social and volunteer services that benefit ANY ONE IN NEED and it not a 'ask if you are Muslim' prior to being provided the benefits of their giving --- these Muslims just GIVE! Rolling Eyes

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:05 pm

So we are back to the left doing what they do best

Deflect, divert and cover up

Can anyone answer my points?

Only sexy tried to do so and like many islamic apologists failed badly

All we see is where Muslims do good from the left

They are not the issue, as again many Muslims are good peopel, its the islamists, that are the issue, so why do the left continue to ignore this?

by Original Quill Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:10 pm

Didge wrote:So we are back to the left doing what they do best

Deflect, divert and cover up

Can anyone answer my points?

Only sexy tried to do so and like many islamic apologists failed badly

All we see is where Muslims do good from the left

They are not the issue, as again many Muslims are good peopel, its the islamists, that are the issue, so why do the left continue to ignore this?

Like a one-trick pony, isn't it? "Deflect, divert and cover up"...how many times must we hear those words? And, "Can anyone answer my points?"...that question? And "failed badly" and "from the left"... none of it has any meaning.

It's all from rote memory and repetition. No original thought.

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:13 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:So we are back to the left doing what they do best

Deflect, divert and cover up

Can anyone answer my points?

Only sexy tried to do so and like many islamic apologists failed badly

All we see is where Muslims do good from the left

They are not the issue, as again many Muslims are good peopel, its the islamists, that are the issue, so why do the left continue to ignore this?

Like a one-trick pony, isn't it? "Deflect, divert and cover up"...how many times must we hear those words? And, "Can anyone answer my points?"...that question? And "failed badly" and "from the left"... none of it has any meaning.

It's all from rote memory and repetition. No original thought.

Is that why you talk about me and do sso around me, speak nothing on my points through here and just try to character assassinate me?
That shows your failiings Quill and not mine
All you all you are doing is trying to derail the thread and as seen, deflect, divert and cover up
Let me know when you can answer my points, if at all you can

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:33 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:So we are back to the left doing what they do best
Deflect, divert and cover up
Can anyone answer my points?
Only sexy tried to do so and like many islamic apologists failed badly
All we see is where Muslims do good from the left
They are not the issue, as again many Muslims are good peopel, its the islamists, ~~that are the issue, so why do the left continue to ignore this?~~
Like a one-trick pony, isn't it? "Deflect, divert and cover up"...how many times must we hear those words? And, "Can anyone answer my points?"...that question? And "failed badly" and "from the left"... none of it has any meaning.

It's all from rote memory and repetition. No original thought.

And despite the regurgitated minute rhetoric and limited vile terrorist sources he's able to cherry pick ...the responsible Muslims are just going about their daily lives - doing the grunt work that good/basic humanitarian type of humans do day-in-day-out and he's never going to UP DATE HIS OLD DATA!

WORLDPOST
Orlando Is a Chance for Us Muslims to Reassess Our Stance on Homosexuality
06/20/2016 05:18 pm ET | Updated 21 hours ago
[*]Muhsin Hendricks Director, Inner Circle

Allen J. Schaben via Getty Images
CAPE TOWN, South Africa — It is an indisputable fact that the Quran is pro-life. In no uncertain terms, the Quran promotes the idea that life is sacred.
In the law of just retribution there is the saving of life, O you who are endowed with insight, so that you may learn to restrain yourselves and develop consciousness. (Quran 2:179)
Hence, the killing of innocent people, despite their ethnicity, religion, gender or sexual orientation, can have no justification in Islam.
Those who kill without a just cause or to prevent mass spreading of corruption on Earth, it is as if they have killed the whole of mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as if they have saved the whole of mankind. (Quran 5:32)
There are too many factors to be considered in the case of the Orlando massacre, too many questions. Was it an internalized homophobic reaction by a Muslim who could not make peace between two seemingly conflicted identities, and thus acted out in the way that he did? Was it a homophobic attack in which Omar Mateen was assisted by Muslim extremists, including his father, to rid the Earth of evildoers?

We must be vigilant and cautious about the messaging in media. We live in an era of great political and technological deception. We must be responsive, and we must stand firm in our resolve for peace and justice. We must not allow ourselves to become reactive, as opposed to having an informed response.
Islamic extremism, preached in mosques funded by militant Muslim sects, has hijacked Islam. It is this form of Islam that seeks to play on the innocence of ordinary Muslims who only seek to practice Islam to an extent that pleases their creator. As guilty as Omar Mateen may have been for committing mass murder, he, too was a victim of Islamic extremism, homophobia and Islamophobia.
Extremism has hijacked Islam.
Perhaps this is a time for the Muslim community to reassess its stance on sexual orientation and gender identity. The former is distinct from the atrocities committed by the inmates of Sodom and Gomorrah where sex was used for power and dominance; innocent men became victims of a power play and women become victims of temple prostitution. The orthodox belief that homosexuality is a sin — based on the story of Sodom and Gomorrah — is what leads to the nuances of homophobia around the massacre in Orlando.
My message on behalf of The Inner Circle is a call for us to amplify our stance against oppression in all its forms and against the divisive powers at play. It is a call for us to refocus our attention on peace and social justice, and it is a prayer of condolence for the innocent victims and their families.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/muhsin-hendricks/orlando-Muslim-homosexuality_b_10571444.html?utm_hp_ref=donald-trump

by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:41 pm

4EVER2 wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
Like a one-trick pony, isn't it? "Deflect, divert and cover up"...how many times must we hear those words? And, "Can anyone answer my points?"...that question? And "failed badly" and "from the left"... none of it has any meaning.

It's all from rote memory and repetition. No original thought.
And despite the regurgitated minute rhetoric and limited vile terrorist sources he's able to cherry pick ...the responsible Muslims are just going about their daily lives - doing the grunt work that good/basic humanitarian type of humans do day-in-day-out and he's never going to UP DATE HIS OLD DATA!

Please show these vile terrorist sources you claim I have used?
Again this is what a set number of Muslims believe Muhammad did, in his lifetime.
Can you not understand this.
So you need to answer the following.
Why are the examples of hadiths i have shown, that states Muhammad commanding homosexuals to be executed taken as authentic by countless islamic schol;ars and used as part of Sharia law?
Why is it that in many Muslim countries homosexual acts is a criminal offense?

by Tommy Monk Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:42 pm

4everatwit just posted an article with this as the heading...

"Orlando Is a Chance for Us Muslims to Reassess Our Stance on Homosexuality"

What current stance do they have that is suggested needs changing?

And where do they get their current stance from?

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