Just released papers on Israel's dishonesty re nuclear weapons

by Guest Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:45 pm

Just released declassified. Israel's deceipt, dishonesty and concealment of it's programme to aquire nuclear weapons.

http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/nukevault/ebb547-Kennedy-Dimona-and-the-Nuclear-Proliferation-Problem-1961-1962/

Kennedy, Dimona and the Nuclear Proliferation Problem: 1961-1962

by Avner Cohen and William Burr

Washington, D.C., April 21, 2016 - President John F. Kennedy worried that Israel’s nuclear program was a potentially serious proliferation risk and insisted that Israel permit periodic inspections to mitigate the danger, according to declassified documents published today by the National Security Archive, Nuclear Proliferation International History Project, and the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation Studies. Kennedy pressured the government of Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion to prevent a military nuclear program, particularly after stage-managed tours of the Dimona facility for U.S. government scientists in 1961 and 1962 raised suspicions within U.S. intelligence that Israel might be concealing its underlying nuclear aims. Kennedy’s long-run objective, documents show, was to broaden and institutionalize inspections of Dimona by the International Atomic Energy Agency.

On 30 May 1961, Kennedy met Ben-Gurion in Manhattan to discuss the bilateral relationship and Middle East issues. However, a central (and indeed the first) issue in their meeting was the Israeli nuclear program, about which President Kennedy was most concerned. According to a draft record of their discussion, which has never been cited, and is published here for the first time, Ben-Gurion spoke “rapidly and in a low voice” and “some words were missed.” He emphasized the peaceful, economic development-oriented nature of the Israeli nuclear project. Nevertheless the note taker, Assistant Secretary of State Philips Talbot, believed that he heard Ben-Gurion mention a “pilot” plant to process plutonium for “atomic power” and also say that “there is no intention to develop weapons capacity now.” Ben-Gurion tacitly acknowledged that the Dimona reactor had a military potential, or so Talbot believed he had heard. The final U.S. version of the memcon retained the sentence about plutonium but did not include the language about a “pilot” plant and “weapons capacity.”

The differences between the two versions suggest the difficulty of preparing accurate records of meetings. But whatever Ben-Gurion actually said, President Kennedy was never wholly satisfied with the insistence that Dimona was strictly a peaceful project. Neither were U.S. intelligence professionals. A recently declassified National Intelligence Estimate on Israel prepared several months after the meeting, and published here for the first time, concluded that “Israel may have decided to undertake a nuclear weapons program. At a minimum, we believe it has decided to develop its nuclear facilities in such a way as to put it into a position to develop nuclear weapons promptly should it decide to do so.” This is the only NIE where the discussion of Dimona has been declassified in its entirety.

Much more on link of Kennedy's distrust of Israel

Iran signed the non-nuclear proliferation programme. Israel did'nt.

by Irn Bru Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:31 pm

Oh the irony in that. Concealing a nuclear programme with lies, deceipt and a hdden agenda. And they're now all over Iran by claiming they are doing the same thing when there is no real ecidence that they are.

by Guest Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:32 pm

So when has Israel used its nukes?
When has America used atom bombs?
Iran has vowed to destroy Israel or has this fact eluded some on here.
Anyway its very apparent to many no deal was actually made in writing with Iran

by Irn Bru Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:40 pm

Well if the wouldn't use them why did they conceall getting them?

When was the last time an Iranian army ever invaded another country ther than defending itself against the Iraqi's?

Did Iran really say they are going to destroy Israel or was it the Zionist extremists that they meant?

by Guest Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:43 pm

Irn Bru wrote:Well if the wouldn't use them why did they conceall getting them?

When was the last time an Iranian army ever invaded another country ther than defending itself against the Iraqi's?

Did Iran really say they are going to destroy Israel or was it the Zionist extremists that they meant?

Protection, considering at the time, near every Arab state was continuing to attack them and wish them to be destroyed

Seems straight forward to me.

Well lets see, Iran sent in arms, money and insurgents to Lebanon, Gaza, Yemen, Iraq, the list is endless.
You do no need to invade to create and cause conflicts
Yes iran has numerous times said they wil destroy Israel through its many leaders

by Guest Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:47 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iranian-military-commander-vows-to-wipe-israel-off-the-map-as-nuclear-deal-nears-10148351.html

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/irans-rafsanjani-reiterates-israel-will-be-wiped-off-the-map/2015/07/07/

by Irn Bru Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:51 pm

didge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:Well if the wouldn't use them why did they conceall getting them?

When was the last time an Iranian army ever invaded another country ther than defending itself against the Iraqi's?

Did Iran really say they are going to destroy Israel or was it the Zionist extremists that they meant?

Protection, considering at the time, near every Arab state was continuing to attack them and wish them to be destroyed

Seems straight forward to me.

Well lets see, Iran sent in arms, money and insurgents to Lebanon, Gaza, Yemen, Iraq, the list is endless.
You do no need to invade to create and cause conflicts
Yes iran has numerous times said they wil destroy Israel through its many leaders

So would Iran have a llegitimate right to aquire a nuclear programme as well considering the war drums are beating to attack them and it's coming from all these new found friends of yours. Perhaps they feel threatened.

The programme agreed with the USA is the best deal on the table and offers hope to bring Iran bak into the mainstream community and aso to keep tabs on where they are going with nuclear programme.

by Guest Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:54 pm

I think anyone who thinks Iran having nukes would be bonkers, considering the threat of an extremist state having such weapons. The point is nobody has used any since WW2. In the hands of a state, where death is viewed and valued over that of life through martyrdom and the track record of Iran in the Iranian Iraq conflict,w here they sent their own children into minefields to clear them for them, would be a concern for most rational people, would you not think.

Show me the written signed agreement?

There is nothing b ut a verbal agreement, which is being shown up to the sham that it is

by Irn Bru Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:54 pm

didge wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iranian-military-commander-vows-to-wipe-israel-off-the-map-as-nuclear-deal-nears-10148351.html

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/irans-rafsanjani-reiterates-israel-will-be-wiped-off-the-map/2015/07/07/

These are all very well Didge but were these postions officially stated as Iranian government intentions or some people just shooting their mouths off. Israeli's have done the same thing in threatening to blast Gaza into kingdom come with nukes.

by Guest Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:56 pm

Irn Bru wrote:
didge wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iranian-military-commander-vows-to-wipe-israel-off-the-map-as-nuclear-deal-nears-10148351.html

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/irans-rafsanjani-reiterates-israel-will-be-wiped-off-the-map/2015/07/07/

These are all very well Didge but were these postions officially stated as Iranian government intentions or some people just shooting their mouths off. Israeli's have done the same thing in threatening to blast Gaza into kingdom come with nukes.

Just released papers on Israel's dishonesty re nuclear weapons Article-2525602-1A2B2A3600000578-553_634x408

by Irn Bru Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:57 pm

didge wrote:I think anyone who thinks Iran having nukes would be bonkers, considering the threat of an extremist state having such weapons. The point is nobody has used any since WW2. In the hands of a state, where death is viewed and valued over that of life through martyrdom and the track record of Iran in the Iranian Iraq conflict,w here they sent their own children into minefields to clear them for them, would be a concern for most rational people, would you not think.

Show me the written signed agreement?

There is nothing b ut a verbal agreement, which is being shown up to the sham that it is

The point is Didge to do everything possible to draw them away from extremism and there are positive signs of this.

Have you got the full text of the agreement or what is not in it?

by Irn Bru Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:58 pm

didge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
didge wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iranian-military-commander-vows-to-wipe-israel-off-the-map-as-nuclear-deal-nears-10148351.html

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/irans-rafsanjani-reiterates-israel-will-be-wiped-off-the-map/2015/07/07/

These are all very well Didge but were these postions officially stated as Iranian government intentions or some people just shooting their mouths off. Israeli's have done the same thing in threatening to blast Gaza into kingdom come with nukes.

Sandie Shaw video next is it? Laughing

by Guest Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:00 am

Irn Bru wrote:
didge wrote:I think anyone who thinks Iran having nukes would be bonkers, considering the threat of an extremist state having such weapons. The point is nobody has used any since WW2. In the hands of a state, where death is viewed and valued over that of life through martyrdom and the track record of Iran in the Iranian Iraq conflict,w here they sent their own children into minefields to clear them for them, would be a concern for most rational people, would you not think.

Show me the written signed agreement?

There is nothing b ut a verbal agreement, which is being shown up to the sham that it is

The point is Didge to do everything possible to draw them away from extremism and there are positive signs of this.

Have you got the full text of the agreement or what is not in it?

Draw them away from extremism, and how pray do you do that Irn?

There are no signs of this, only the people of Iran can change that through progression, not the leadership who hate Israel.
The Middle east is in the throws of change and its trying to fight against that change, which is what you sorely miss at ever turn.
When they start to give equal and human rights to its own people, then you can see a chance of chance
There is no sign of that and it has some of the worst human rights records going

I asked you to show me the written signed document, if you cannot, then just say so

by Irn Bru Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:25 am

didge wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
didge wrote:I think anyone who thinks Iran having nukes would be bonkers, considering the threat of an extremist state having such weapons. The point is nobody has used any since WW2. In the hands of a state, where death is viewed and valued over that of life through martyrdom and the track record of Iran in the Iranian Iraq conflict,w here they sent their own children into minefields to clear them for them, would be a concern for most rational people, would you not think.

Show me the written signed agreement?

There is nothing b ut a verbal agreement, which is being shown up to the sham that it is

The point is Didge to do everything possible to draw them away from extremism and there are positive signs of this.

Have you got the full text of the agreement or what is not in it?

Draw them away from extremism, and how pray do you do that Irn?

There are no signs of this, only the people of Iran can change that through progression, not the leadership who hate Israel.
The Middle east is in the throws of change and its trying to fight against that change, which is what you sorely miss at ever turn.
When they start to give equal and human rights to its own people, then you can see a chance of chance
There is no sign of that and it has some of the worst human rights records going

I asked you to show me the written signed document, if you cannot, then just say so

There are postive signs Didge and you can't deny that.

Which part of the agreement is it that you say you have a problem with?

You have read it haven't you?

by Guest Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:27 am

What signs Irn?
I asked you some very simple questions and yet you cannot answer Irn

Draw them away from extremism, and how pray do you do that Irn?

Show me the written signed agreement?

I have shown you they want to destroy Israel, of which you at first tried to deny and forget all the abuses they commit within Iran, where they still having stoning.

Iran has the world's highest rate of execution by stoning. No one knows how many people have been stoned but at least 11 people are in prison under sentence of stoning, according to an Iranian human rights lawyer, Shadi Sadr. Sadr, who has represented five people sentenced to stoning, said Iran carried out stonings in secret in prisons, in the desert or very early in the morning in cemeteries.

How about.

Many “offenders” are declared Moharebeh (waging war against God), but the majority of those who are executed are convicted on simple drug charges. Other crimes, such as being a homosexual or blasphemy against Islam’s Muhammad, are also punishable by death. Gay activists estimate that some 4,000 alleged gays have been executed by Iran since its 1979 Islamic Revolution.

And where do many Iranian and Palestinians homosexuals flee to?

Israel by any chance?

by nicko Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:14 am

The fact that Israel probably has nukes will stop Iran from using them against Israel.

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Just released papers on Israel's dishonesty re nuclear weapons