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The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:45 am
Years ago, I had a chat with three young Muslim men as we waited in a Heathrow Airport lounge to board a flight to Islamabad. I was going to Pakistan to report on the fallout from a devastating earthquake in Kashmir. They were going there to do what they vaguely described as “charitable work”. They dressed in white shalwar kameez, wore their beards in salafist style and spoke in south London accents. I tried to steer the conversation to the earthquake. They wanted to talk about politics. Had I seen Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 9/11? I avoided furnishing an opinion about a film they plainly revered. The unvarnished truth about Amerika — from an American. Authority and authenticity rolled into one.
I think of that exchange whenever the subject of Islamist radicalisation comes up. There’s a great deal of literature about how young Muslim men — often born in the West to middle-class and not particularly religious households — get turned on to jihad. Think of Mohammed Emwazi, the University of Westminster graduate later known as Jihadi John. Or Nidal Malik Hasan, of Fort Hood infamy. Or Najim Laachraoui, who studied electrical engineering at the prestigious Catholic University of Louvain before blowing himself up in Brussels. Or Boston’s Tsarnaev brothers and San Bernardino’s Syed Farook. It’s a long list. And in many cases investigators are able to identify an agent of radicalisation.
Major Hasan corresponded with extremist cleric Anwar al-Awlaki. Laachraoui seems to have come under the spell of a Molenbeek preacher named Khalid Zerkani. The Tsarnaevs took their bomb-building tips from Inspire, an online English-language magazine published by al-Qa’ida’s branch in Yemen. But the influence of the Awlakis of the world cannot fully account for the mindset of these jihadists. They are also sons of the West — educated in the schools of multiculturalism, reared on the works of Noam Chomsky and perhaps Frantz Fanon, consumers of a news diet heavy with reports of perfidy by US or British or Israeli soldiers.
If Islamism is their ideological drug of choice, the political orthodoxies of the modern Left are their gateway to it.
Take the most recent issue of Inspire. Mixed in with step-by-step photos on how to build a timed hand-grenade and an analysis of the Charlie Hebdo massacre, there’s a long article on the oppression of blacks in America, starting with the killing of Ferguson’s Michael Brown. The spring 2013 issue contains a “message to the American nation” from al-Qa’ida commander Qassim al-Reimy in which he asks whether “meddling in our affairs and installing whomever tyrant agents and lackeys you want who kill and oppress (is) forgivable?” “Leave us with our religion, land and nations and mind your own internal affairs,” the commander — now emir — writes. “Save your economy, look after your concerns, for it is better than what you currently are.”
This isn’t the language of Islam, with its impressive tradition of conquest. It’s the language of the progressive Left, of what Jeane Kirkpatrick at the 1984 Republican convention called the “Blame America First” crowd. It fits the Left’s view of the West as the perennial sinner and the rest of the world as its perpetual victim. It is the language of turning the page on a decade of war, of focusing on nation building at home. It strikes us as radical only because it comes from the pen of a terrorist. If it had appeared as an op-ed in The Guardian, it would elicit nodding approval from many readers, a dismissive shrug from others, but no big whoop either way. In the early 1990s, my former columnist colleague Thomas Frank came up with the clever phrase “commodification of dissent” to explain how capitalism turned all kinds of counter-cultural beliefs and radical ideas into just another product in a box, to be sold and distributed through the usual channels. Fahrenheit 9/11 might have been a political revelation or even a call to arms for some impressionable young Muslims from Tower Hamlets, but to Hollywood it was $US222.5 million of box office gold. That made it a winner in the marketplace of ideas, and who can quarrel with that?
The commodification of dissent may have the effect of blunting the impact of all kinds of extreme notions. But it can dull us to their extremism, leaving us astonished when someone turns notion into action. The catharsis of violence seems like an interesting idea in the pages of The Wretched of the Earth. In practice, it’s scores of young men and women gunned down in a Paris concert hall. We’ve become lazy in our thinking about Islam and the West. Whether the Islam practised by al-Qa’ida or Islamic State is “radical” or merely traditional isn’t the question. It’s whether the West can recognise that the moral nihilism of today’s Jihadi Johns is the logical outgrowth of the moral relativism that is the default religion of today’s West.
The Wall Street Journal
http://www.blazingcatfur.ca/2016/04/12/the-lefts-political-orthodoxy-is-the-gateway-drug-to-jihad/
I think of that exchange whenever the subject of Islamist radicalisation comes up. There’s a great deal of literature about how young Muslim men — often born in the West to middle-class and not particularly religious households — get turned on to jihad. Think of Mohammed Emwazi, the University of Westminster graduate later known as Jihadi John. Or Nidal Malik Hasan, of Fort Hood infamy. Or Najim Laachraoui, who studied electrical engineering at the prestigious Catholic University of Louvain before blowing himself up in Brussels. Or Boston’s Tsarnaev brothers and San Bernardino’s Syed Farook. It’s a long list. And in many cases investigators are able to identify an agent of radicalisation.
Major Hasan corresponded with extremist cleric Anwar al-Awlaki. Laachraoui seems to have come under the spell of a Molenbeek preacher named Khalid Zerkani. The Tsarnaevs took their bomb-building tips from Inspire, an online English-language magazine published by al-Qa’ida’s branch in Yemen. But the influence of the Awlakis of the world cannot fully account for the mindset of these jihadists. They are also sons of the West — educated in the schools of multiculturalism, reared on the works of Noam Chomsky and perhaps Frantz Fanon, consumers of a news diet heavy with reports of perfidy by US or British or Israeli soldiers.
If Islamism is their ideological drug of choice, the political orthodoxies of the modern Left are their gateway to it.
Take the most recent issue of Inspire. Mixed in with step-by-step photos on how to build a timed hand-grenade and an analysis of the Charlie Hebdo massacre, there’s a long article on the oppression of blacks in America, starting with the killing of Ferguson’s Michael Brown. The spring 2013 issue contains a “message to the American nation” from al-Qa’ida commander Qassim al-Reimy in which he asks whether “meddling in our affairs and installing whomever tyrant agents and lackeys you want who kill and oppress (is) forgivable?” “Leave us with our religion, land and nations and mind your own internal affairs,” the commander — now emir — writes. “Save your economy, look after your concerns, for it is better than what you currently are.”
This isn’t the language of Islam, with its impressive tradition of conquest. It’s the language of the progressive Left, of what Jeane Kirkpatrick at the 1984 Republican convention called the “Blame America First” crowd. It fits the Left’s view of the West as the perennial sinner and the rest of the world as its perpetual victim. It is the language of turning the page on a decade of war, of focusing on nation building at home. It strikes us as radical only because it comes from the pen of a terrorist. If it had appeared as an op-ed in The Guardian, it would elicit nodding approval from many readers, a dismissive shrug from others, but no big whoop either way. In the early 1990s, my former columnist colleague Thomas Frank came up with the clever phrase “commodification of dissent” to explain how capitalism turned all kinds of counter-cultural beliefs and radical ideas into just another product in a box, to be sold and distributed through the usual channels. Fahrenheit 9/11 might have been a political revelation or even a call to arms for some impressionable young Muslims from Tower Hamlets, but to Hollywood it was $US222.5 million of box office gold. That made it a winner in the marketplace of ideas, and who can quarrel with that?
The commodification of dissent may have the effect of blunting the impact of all kinds of extreme notions. But it can dull us to their extremism, leaving us astonished when someone turns notion into action. The catharsis of violence seems like an interesting idea in the pages of The Wretched of the Earth. In practice, it’s scores of young men and women gunned down in a Paris concert hall. We’ve become lazy in our thinking about Islam and the West. Whether the Islam practised by al-Qa’ida or Islamic State is “radical” or merely traditional isn’t the question. It’s whether the West can recognise that the moral nihilism of today’s Jihadi Johns is the logical outgrowth of the moral relativism that is the default religion of today’s West.
The Wall Street Journal
http://www.blazingcatfur.ca/2016/04/12/the-lefts-political-orthodoxy-is-the-gateway-drug-to-jihad/
Guest- Guest
Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:38 am
What utter nonsense! Of course the media is going to focus on atrocities committed by our own militaries -- that goes hand-in-hand with our (professed, at least) values.
And of course the people who want to burn us to the ground are going to use our faults to condemn us -- that's human nature.
But all you have to do is watch the political commentary shows of MSNBC -- pretty much the epitome of leftist thought -- to see so many things that are diametrically opposed to the social values of fundamentalist Islam. In one episode of the Rachel Maddow show, you can see a celebration of the rights won by gay people, a condemnation of someone (on the right) trying to make the U.S. into a theocracy, a diatribe against anti-abortion legislators and a tasty recipe for an alcoholic beverage.
So people who are into those sorts of things are eventually going to be moved to join ISIS?
I swear, if I was a praying sort, I'd pray that the right learn to use their brains if I didn't think it would land them in even deeper shit ...
And of course the people who want to burn us to the ground are going to use our faults to condemn us -- that's human nature.
But all you have to do is watch the political commentary shows of MSNBC -- pretty much the epitome of leftist thought -- to see so many things that are diametrically opposed to the social values of fundamentalist Islam. In one episode of the Rachel Maddow show, you can see a celebration of the rights won by gay people, a condemnation of someone (on the right) trying to make the U.S. into a theocracy, a diatribe against anti-abortion legislators and a tasty recipe for an alcoholic beverage.
So people who are into those sorts of things are eventually going to be moved to join ISIS?
I swear, if I was a praying sort, I'd pray that the right learn to use their brains if I didn't think it would land them in even deeper shit ...
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Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:46 am
Ben_Reilly wrote:What utter nonsense! Of course the media is going to focus on atrocities committed by our own militaries -- that goes hand-in-hand with our (professed, at least) values.
And of course the people who want to burn us to the ground are going to use our faults to condemn us -- that's human nature.
But all you have to do is watch the political commentary shows of MSNBC -- pretty much the epitome of leftist thought -- to see so many things that are diametrically opposed to the social values of fundamentalist Islam. In one episode of the Rachel Maddow show, you can see a celebration of the rights won by gay people, a condemnation of someone (on the right) trying to make the U.S. into a theocracy, a diatribe against anti-abortion legislators and a tasty recipe for an alcoholic beverage.
So people who are into those sorts of things are eventually going to be moved to join ISIS?
I swear, if I was a praying sort, I'd pray that the right learn to use their brains if I didn't think it would land them in even deeper shit ...
I see the points go above the progressives head as per usual
It is because of leftist blame, that plays a fundamental part in the narrative of hate that many Muslims have even in the west and of which the left is complicit to. They have champions who create and cause a further divide by the sheer ignorance they spout and fail to see that they do. The likes of ISIS love the regressive left narratives, because it makes their job of recruiting that much easier.
This is what the left can never see, how they play into the narrative itself and provide backing to a cause and are ignorant of this
So its not nonsense at all and many have been raised on poor leftist ideals, ones that are coming back to bite them in the arse
You find natural allies on the regressive left and Islamism, they go hand in hand
I am off to work
Guest- Guest
Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by 'Wolfie Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:16 am
ANOTHER TYPICAL load of meaningless bullshit political propaganda from yet another meaningless and clueless RW propaganda blog site...
WHAT a surprise !
NOT..
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Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:20 am
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
ANOTHER TYPICAL load of meaningless bullshit political propaganda from yet another meaningless and clueless RW propaganda blog site...
WHAT a surprise !
NOT..
Wow, such an zero based counter that offers nothing to counter the views except irrelevant hot air
Its actually from the Wall Street Journal, but never mind
Guest- Guest
Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:21 am
http://www.wsj.com/articles/islam-and-the-radical-west-1460416688
Guest- Guest
Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Original Quill Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:16 pm
I remember the exact same criticisms from the Left during the 1968 Convention: Free speech is a debating society, demonstrating is feckless dance. But those cries seemed to dissipate into opposition to the Vietnam War, so we never got to see them through.
Now this organ of the Murdoch Empire revisits the criticism, only from the standpoint that the free speech and demonstration is not feckless, but somehow covertly seditious because it lives next to real, live action. See, it argues, if you talk about it, it’s bound to lead to bad things. You release the Pandora's Box of jihadism
Interesting use of Thomas Frank, btw: “The commodification of dissent”—not the criticism of inaction, but the advocacy of inaction. Don’t talk about it lest you end up with jihadism.
You know what? So was the Iraq War II in fact ‘real, live action’. Somewhere, somehow, someone is engaging in real, live action….and we’re out of the loop. Is it better to be in the conversation, or better to be out of the conversation? That is the fundamental question of this article. Oh, the author doesn’t want to address such things directly; his message: step lightly, and let big brother do the thinking.
The fact is that all good things come from the Left...bank on it! So any advice to the effect that you kids keep it down, is misplaced. The answer, if at all, is going to come from the Left. The Right spilled the apples all over the floor what with Iraq II; the Left, comme d’habitude, will have to pick the apples up. And here’s this asswipe arguing that we, the clean-up crew, keep it down!!
Now this organ of the Murdoch Empire revisits the criticism, only from the standpoint that the free speech and demonstration is not feckless, but somehow covertly seditious because it lives next to real, live action. See, it argues, if you talk about it, it’s bound to lead to bad things. You release the Pandora's Box of jihadism
Interesting use of Thomas Frank, btw: “The commodification of dissent”—not the criticism of inaction, but the advocacy of inaction. Don’t talk about it lest you end up with jihadism.
You know what? So was the Iraq War II in fact ‘real, live action’. Somewhere, somehow, someone is engaging in real, live action….and we’re out of the loop. Is it better to be in the conversation, or better to be out of the conversation? That is the fundamental question of this article. Oh, the author doesn’t want to address such things directly; his message: step lightly, and let big brother do the thinking.
The fact is that all good things come from the Left...bank on it! So any advice to the effect that you kids keep it down, is misplaced. The answer, if at all, is going to come from the Left. The Right spilled the apples all over the floor what with Iraq II; the Left, comme d’habitude, will have to pick the apples up. And here’s this asswipe arguing that we, the clean-up crew, keep it down!!
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Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:25 pm
Well that was plenty said without actually saying anything of worth Quill
We have been over this before and no, the view that all good things come from the left is nothing short of a complete myth.
We have been over this before and no, the view that all good things come from the left is nothing short of a complete myth.
Guest- Guest
Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Original Quill Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:35 pm
didge wrote:Well that was plenty said without actually saying anything of worth Quill
We have been over this before and no, the view that all good things come from the left is nothing short of a complete myth.
Has anything of value ever come from the Right? Hmmm...let's see, wars and depressions. That's about it.
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Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:36 pm
Original Quill wrote:didge wrote:Well that was plenty said without actually saying anything of worth Quill
We have been over this before and no, the view that all good things come from the left is nothing short of a complete myth.
Has anything of value ever come from the Right? Hmmm...let's see, wars and depressions. That's about it.
Just look at many of your Center/Right wing Presidents, as lets face it you can hardly lay claim to any of them being left wing
Guest- Guest
Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Original Quill Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:01 pm
didge wrote:Original Quill wrote:
Has anything of value ever come from the Right? Hmmm...let's see, wars and depressions. That's about it.
Just look at many of your Center/Right wing Presidents, as lets face it you can hardly lay claim to any of them being left wing
Eisenhower --- started the Cold War
Nixon --- escalated the Vietnam War.
Reagan --- started the Nicaraguan War,
Bush I --- started Iraq I.
Bush II --- started Iraq II; led to depression crisis of October 2008.
No, not left wing. They either rode the nation into war, or into the garbage. Let's face it: when RW ers are not ripping off the people, they are drilling holes in the bottom of the ship of state.
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Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:41 pm
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
ANOTHER TYPICAL load of meaningless bullshit political propaganda from yet another meaningless and clueless RW propaganda blog site...
WHAT a surprise !
NOT..
Amusing as the method that our resident 'Right Wing' consistent BLOGGER starts all of his type of posts as if he's telling us his POV about the title; when in fact all he's done is pasting someone else's POV and dumping it out here {in it's full blown glory} and leaving it to stink up the community! And he's never {rarely ever} even bothered to leave a word or 2 about his own thoughts or opinion about the BILGE!
Good Grief...can't generate a thought of his own but will waste loads of bandwidth cutting & pasting someone else's printed words
Point - POINTLESS - mind numbing redundant BS!
Guest- Guest
Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:47 pm
Original Quill wrote:didge wrote:
Just look at many of your Center/Right wing Presidents, as lets face it you can hardly lay claim to any of them being left wing
Eisenhower --- started the Cold War
Nixon --- escalated the Vietnam War.
Reagan --- started the Nicaraguan War,
Bush I --- started Iraq I.
Bush II --- started Iraq II; led to depression crisis of October 2008.
No, not left wing. They either rode the nation into war, or into the garbage. Let's face it: when RW ers are not ripping off the people, they are drilling holes in the bottom of the ship of state.
So you could not even find one left wing President, which means every single President that brought forth progression was center right wing.
So much for your false inaccurate statement
Guest- Guest
Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:48 pm
4EVER2 wrote:WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
ANOTHER TYPICAL load of meaningless bullshit political propaganda from yet another meaningless and clueless RW propaganda blog site...
WHAT a surprise !
NOT..
Amusing as the method that our resident 'Right Wing' consistent BLOGGER starts all of his type of posts as if he's telling us his POV about the title; when in fact all he's done is pasting someone else's POV and dumping it out here {in it's full blown glory} and leaving it to stink up the community! And he's never {rarely ever} even bothered to leave a word or 2 about his own thoughts or opinion about the BILGE!
Good Grief...can't generate a thought of his own but will waste loads of bandwidth cutting & pasting someone else's printed words
Point - POINTLESS - mind numbing redundant BS!
Guest- Guest
Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by 'Wolfie Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:57 pm
didge wrote:Original Quill wrote:
Eisenhower --- started the Cold War
Nixon --- escalated the Vietnam War.
Reagan --- started the Nicaraguan War,
Bush I --- started Iraq I.
Bush II --- started Iraq II; led to depression crisis of October 2008.
No, not left wing. They either rode the nation into war, or into the garbage. Let's face it: when RW ers are not ripping off the people, they are drilling holes in the bottom of the ship of state.
So you could not even find one left wing President, which means every single President that brought forth progression was center right wing.
So much for your false inaccurate statement
HOW INTERESTING...
DIDGE considers wars, depressions and the GFC to be - in his own words - "progressive" !
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Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:00 pm
Didge, the point that appears to sail over your head is that sure, when we start to talk about who's to blame for this and that, resentment arises. But to say that this resentment is going to lead to "scores of young men and women gunned down in a Paris concert hall" thanks to corporations making radical messages seem less radical is downright preposterous, not to mention offensive to any notion of accountability and justice.
The point you're defending is quite similar to the fallacy that the 9/11 attacks and other terrorist attacks just came out of the blue, that if you talk about what we might be doing to motivate terrorists to attack us, you're a danger to society. How is that compatible in any way with liberal democracy and Western values? Actually, it's the sort of thing that a totalitarian regime would use to justify cracking down on freedom of expression.
Talking about why these things happen isn't the danger that you posit, and the left hardly holds a monopoly on it. Former Congressman Ron Paul, a big pal of Farage and about as right-wing as it gets, famously said in a presidential debate:
https://mises.org/library/ron-paul-blowback
I would ask what the alternative is to discussing what America does wrong, as in the Michael Moore film cited at the beginning. I think it would make the U.S. into a fascist society with far less liberty.
The point you're defending is quite similar to the fallacy that the 9/11 attacks and other terrorist attacks just came out of the blue, that if you talk about what we might be doing to motivate terrorists to attack us, you're a danger to society. How is that compatible in any way with liberal democracy and Western values? Actually, it's the sort of thing that a totalitarian regime would use to justify cracking down on freedom of expression.
Talking about why these things happen isn't the danger that you posit, and the left hardly holds a monopoly on it. Former Congressman Ron Paul, a big pal of Farage and about as right-wing as it gets, famously said in a presidential debate:
"Have you ever read the reasons they attacked us? They attacked us because we've been over there; we've been bombing Iraq for 10 years. We've been in the Middle East ... . So right now we're building an embassy in Iraq that's bigger than the Vatican. We're building 14 permanent bases. What would we say here if China was doing this in our country or in the Gulf of Mexico? We would be objecting. We need to look at what we do from the perspective of what would happen if somebody else did it to us. I'm suggesting that we listen to the people who attacked us and the reason they did it."
https://mises.org/library/ron-paul-blowback
I would ask what the alternative is to discussing what America does wrong, as in the Michael Moore film cited at the beginning. I think it would make the U.S. into a fascist society with far less liberty.
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Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:00 pm
]WhoseYourWolfie wrote:didge wrote:
So you could not even find one left wing President, which means every single President that brought forth progression was center right wing.
So much for your false inaccurate statement
HOW INTERESTING...
DIDGE considers wars, depressions and the GFC to be - in his own words - "progressive" !
Interesting as you just invented that I did.
I did whoever ask Quill to Post up left wing Presidents, which he failed to do.
Now America has brought over the ages progressive laws and changes.
Also his view that Eisenhower started the Old war is also misleading and false. That started at the end of WW2, and even before during, when concessions were made to Stalin
But hey, the left always have the ability to invent things never stated
Guest- Guest
Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:10 pm
Ben_Reilly wrote:Didge, the point that appears to sail over your head is that sure, when we start to talk about who's to blame for this and that, resentment arises. But to say that this resentment is going to lead to "scores of young men and women gunned down in a Paris concert hall" thanks to corporations making radical messages seem less radical is downright preposterous, not to mention offensive to any notion of accountability and justice.
The point you're defending is quite similar to the fallacy that the 9/11 attacks and other terrorist attacks just came out of the blue, that if you talk about what we might be doing to motivate terrorists to attack us, you're a danger to society. How is that compatible in any way with liberal democracy and Western values? Actually, it's the sort of thing that a totalitarian regime would use to justify cracking down on freedom of expression.
Talking about why these things happen isn't the danger that you posit, and the left hardly holds a monopoly on it. Former Congressman Ron Paul, a big pal of Farage and about as right-wing as it gets, famously said in a presidential debate:"Have you ever read the reasons they attacked us? They attacked us because we've been over there; we've been bombing Iraq for 10 years. We've been in the Middle East ... . So right now we're building an embassy in Iraq that's bigger than the Vatican. We're building 14 permanent bases. What would we say here if China was doing this in our country or in the Gulf of Mexico? We would be objecting. We need to look at what we do from the perspective of what would happen if somebody else did it to us. I'm suggesting that we listen to the people who attacked us and the reason they did it."
https://mises.org/library/ron-paul-blowback
I would ask what the alternative is to discussing what America does wrong, as in the Michael Moore film cited at the beginning. I think it would make the U.S. into a fascist society with far less liberty.
But the point on resentment is an absolute falsehood, because where is the resentment from the near total destruction wrought by the allies against the Germans and Japanese? What you are in fact saying is that there is something unique with Muslim countries, because most other defeated nations generally rebuild their nations and move on. No matter how you look at this and how or why a war was instigated. Both the Iraq War and Afghanistan removed tyrants, that had been committing genocide., What you blatantly overlook is how like for example in Iraq, it was then used as a proxy war between Saudi and Iran. Who both funneled and infiltrated insurgents into the are to cause and create as much terror as possible. Now again why is it where two nations that were annihilated then took on aid from the west and rebuilt and yet in Iraq they squandered the chance? The answer is very simple and again is problematic because again its very much centered around Islam, with a view that is a literal belief over lands. You see you do not want to know or listen to the truth because the truth is simply very problematic where a people are indoctrinated through a belief and narrative of hate that is central to their religion. I mean have you seen the reasons Bin laden gave for 9/11? There is one very central thing many of the extremists want and its played off prophecies they buy into of a grand battle fought between the US and Muslims in the Middle east again basing the US as the "Great Satan". Take the Civil War in Syria, which has seen half a million casualties dead. Where is the great resentment that calls for a massive jihad against Assad and ISIS?? You see when you scrutinize the blame culture of the left it falls apart every time.
Now the other aspect which also makes your views utterly redundant as if it was western intervention that created resentment to the point of revenge attacks, then the history is amiss of those who have constantly suffered within the region who are not Muslims. So we should see a repeated pattern within the religion of other persecuted groups or those suffering through conflicts. This just simple is not the case, so again the finger solely points at only one group, Muslims. We are not seeing Christians, the Druze, the Yazidid's committing mass terrorism through resentment, in fact the opposite, so again this shows your reasoning is blatantly false. Again not only that we see people who lead ordinary lives go to easily believing its acceptable to rape and enslaves girls all through Islamic doctrine. The fact is the left apologist stance plays fundamentally into the hands of the Jihadi's and they have penly admitted this, of which I posted threads on before. What better help in their propaganda machine for clueless lefties to fail to understand the nature of Jihad and its literal belief
Nichael Moore is up there as about the biggest regressive idiot going
You see Ben, I am in the unique position from once being were you are now, buying into this falsehood the left continual to pedal
The reality is more and more can see it just does not hold up to any scrutiny.
Even worse it has been a major factor that has helped and assisted the recruitment of terrorism itself, by the Jihadist's themselves lapping up such propaganda
Guest- Guest
Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Original Quill Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:27 pm
Didge, you just watched a moderate-left president end not one, but two wars started by impetuous, adventurous RW ers. He saved the nation from the economic spiral that was happening as a result reckless spending on war bills. That's the two catastrophes that RW ers are famous for giving us...wars and depressions. And, of course, he got bin Laden, when the Bush/Cheney cabal couldn't even wipe their own arse. RW ers are totally inept.
Why don't you just bow down and kiss the ground Obama walks on? The noise you pitch is wasted energy.
Why don't you just bow down and kiss the ground Obama walks on? The noise you pitch is wasted energy.
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Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:31 pm
Original Quill wrote:Didge, you just watched a moderate-left president end now one, but two wars started by impetuous wars started by adventurous RW ers. He saved the nation from the economic spiral what was happening as a result reckless spending on war bills. And, of course, he got bin Laden, when Bush/Cheney couldn't even wipe their own arse.
Why don't you just bow down and kiss the ground Obama walks on? The noise you pitch is wasted energy.
Has he ended one or left it in a mess?
The later, so much of a mess, he has sat idle only until recently to do something about ISIS.
That is not something to praise but utterly condemn his foreign policy incompetence.
I am not knocking his US policies for its own people as they have been good, but his foreign policies are up there with Bush for incompetence.
His deal with Iran is turning out to be no signed deal at all and will no doubt end the same way as Clinton's did with North Korea
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Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:38 pm
You can't compare Germany or Japan after WWII to decades of Middle East interventionism by the West. I would say that, had Germany and Japan not developed into economically thriving countries, we might have seen it.
With Germany, they knew they'd been defeated by other Christian nations -- no religion as a rallying cry for them -- plus they had just seen the mushroom cloud and I bet that gentled them up quite a bit.
Ditto with Japan, since the atomic bomb was actually dropped on their country. We didn't have a history of exploiting East Asia at that time, either, or other Buddhist nations, etc.
The whole point of your OP seems to be "since punk rock started out as insurrectionist and was co-opted by corporate America, radical jihadi messages can be made to seem less radical as well, and because of that, the left is making it more likely that we'll be attacked again because they insist on pointing out that we're not innocent."
Implicit in this assertion is a call to silence criticism, can't you see that?
With Germany, they knew they'd been defeated by other Christian nations -- no religion as a rallying cry for them -- plus they had just seen the mushroom cloud and I bet that gentled them up quite a bit.
Ditto with Japan, since the atomic bomb was actually dropped on their country. We didn't have a history of exploiting East Asia at that time, either, or other Buddhist nations, etc.
The whole point of your OP seems to be "since punk rock started out as insurrectionist and was co-opted by corporate America, radical jihadi messages can be made to seem less radical as well, and because of that, the left is making it more likely that we'll be attacked again because they insist on pointing out that we're not innocent."
Implicit in this assertion is a call to silence criticism, can't you see that?
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Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:52 pm
Ben_Reilly wrote:You can't compare Germany or Japan after WWII to decades of Middle East interventionism by the West. I would say that, had Germany and Japan not developed into economically thriving countries, we might have seen it.
With Germany, they knew they'd been defeated by other Christian nations -- no religion as a rallying cry for them -- plus they had just seen the mushroom cloud and I bet that gentled them up quite a bit.
Ditto with Japan, since the atomic bomb was actually dropped on their country. We didn't have a history of exploiting East Asia at that time, either, or other Buddhist nations, etc.
The whole point of your OP seems to be "since punk rock started out as insurrectionist and was co-opted by corporate America, radical jihadi messages can be made to seem less radical as well, and because of that, the left is making it more likely that we'll be attacked again because they insist on pointing out that we're not innocent."
Implicit in this assertion is a call to silence criticism, can't you see that?
Yes I can speak of Germany and Japan because it was exactly because of resentment from the First World War that led ultimately onto the second World War, because in the first Germany was not thoroughly beaten. Which if it had of been, it is highly unlikely the second would have ever gotten off of the ground. You cannot decide you do not like a telling point which renders yours moot, when it has every relevance when it comes to resentment. I mean by your view where is all the conflict and terrorism from involvement from conflicts in Asia/Africa and colonialism in Asia and Africa? Its near non-existent against the West where it should be if we us the failed left wing model on resentment. For years after both Japan and Germany were occupied by armed forces and administrations. So again the pattern of leftist methodology falls apart. The fact is the Middle East has in no way suffered how both Japan and Germany did towards the end of WW2. Where in Germany alone, 16 million were in many cases forcibly made refugees by the allies and move to different parts of the newly created borders for Germany. Countless atrocities were committed against the Germans by the Polish and Russian invading armies, millions of German women were raped. The numbers killed from the strategic bombing campaigns dwarfs the all the Allied conflicts in the Middle East, where there was civilians casualties from strategic bombing. So you have more of a setting here for real resentment and yet there is nothing comparable to show of terrorism against the west. With you saying they are Christian nations shows again you are admitting a problem then with Islam.
What you are admitting is the Jihadist's cannot admit they are defeated and this is because again of central parts to its religion around transgressions. You see if we apply your model of resentment we should see repeated patterns and by now a host of Non-Muslim nations with terror acts against the West. This failure to see any such situation is why again you failed to understand the problems with Islam and how it is fighting more over losing its religious control onto societies. So again where the left blatantly get it wrong and fail to understand islam, or how Islamic terrorism has been around for centuries itself and then blame the West as the major factor for Islamic terrorism, plays into the hands of the extremists, who already use many narratives of hate against the west. I mean of course wars will always create some resentment, but how the left have made it the major reasoning behind terrorism from Islamic groups is misleading and very false. Like I say many other religious minorities have suffered in these conflicts in the Middle East as well, so where is all the terrorism from them?
The central and main problem and cause of Islamic terrorism, is Islam doctrines itself, as Islamic terrorism or its justifications would not exist without Islamic text/beliefs/doctrines itself. Of course others factors will play parts, but the central main reasoning is Islam itself
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Re: The Left’s Political Orthodoxy Is The Gateway Drug To Jihad
by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:05 pm
Didge, you're deliberately ignoring mitigating complexities and differences in order to be what is the most important thing in your life -- right. I'm not interested in debating someone who doesn't even allow that the perception that Islam itself is under attack is something that makes this situation unique from other examples.
Nice to see that, like a good right-winger, you grasp for fascism as soon as you perceive a threat.
Nice to see that, like a good right-winger, you grasp for fascism as soon as you perceive a threat.
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My Post and then Didgy-Doooers; he can't even insert an image correctly
by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:41 pm
And 'Sir Whine Alots' post...poor Didgy-dooooer, can't even manage to insert an image correctly without F'ing that up too.4EVER2 wrote:Amusing as the method that our resident 'Right Wing' consistent BLOGGER starts all of his type of posts as if he's telling us his POV about the title; when in fact all he's done is pasting someone else's POV and dumping it out here {in it's full blown glory} and leaving it to stink up the community! And he's never {rarely ever} even bothered to leave a word or 2 about his own thoughts or opinion about the BILGE!WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
ANOTHER TYPICAL load of meaningless bullshit political propaganda from yet another meaningless and clueless RW propaganda blog site...
WHAT a surprise !
NOT..
Good Grief...can't generate a thought of his own but will waste loads of bandwidth cutting & pasting someone else's printed words
Point - POINTLESS - mind numbing redundant BS!
But you are good for a LMAO moments; while trying to act so adult!
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