Gay people coming out.

Good evening Folks.

I've often asked gay posters why they feel the need to come out & my question is always met with the usual vitriolic response that I'm homophobic etc.......which is why I then take the mick out of them.

Therefore,I've just had a quick browse & came up with these comments from a poster on another forum...details withheld.And titled...

WHY DO GAYS FEEL THE NEED TO COME OUT?

..I'm a gay man in my upper 40s. Though I never made a big dramatic coming out announcement, everyone in my life knows I'm gay because I simply lived my life, pursued happiness as I saw fit, and let others draw their own logical conclusions. The only time I've ever said "I'm gay" to anyone was when they asked for clarification of my orientation [despite my campy profile name here, I'm actually quite masculine].

I have long considered coming out to be something that belabors a simple fundamental part of the person -- and frankly, it almost seems like the person is rationalizing something, or apologizing, or even begging for acceptance. I guess I was lucky to be raised by parents who brought me up to be an independent thinker -- I have self-confidence and thereby don't seek validation from others. When I've encountered someone who expressed disapproval of me simply for being gay, that has hardly crushed me or ruined my day; I usually just feel sorry for them for being so narrow-minded.

Sure, I'm different from my straight neighbor -- but that means that he is also different from me. Neither of us is superior or inferior to the other. So if straight people don't feel the need to go around announcing their orientation, why the hell are we compelled to do so?

One other thing -- why is sexual orientation really even that important to others? I don't give a damn what anyone else does in private. Think about it -- if a person has sex one hour every day, that is only 1/24 of their life. Even if you take out the eight hours they sleep, that's still leaves only 1/16 of their life. Those are really tiny fractions to despise someone for, don't you agree?

Additional Details

I'm certainly not advocating for being in the closet or being ashamed of who we are. Indeed, the point I was making is that we should just live openly and not feel like we're required to proclaim public clarifications of our sexuality -- we should just live our lives without having to explain anything about ourselves.

.............The comments made by the poster who seems like a decent bloke reinforce my feelings about the need to come out & the big hoo har that goes with it.

Why do some gays feel that they need to be 'validated'?

Catman wrote:

A classic example.

In my opinion, I think it's a phenomenon that distinguishes itself because society has for so long abused and suppressed gays. Consequently, they have hidden themselves. It's a general celebration of society's new found enlightenment that causes gays to want to celebrate their own personal freedom. We just celebrate happy things.

Shady wrote:

Catman wrote:

A classic example.

I have used that same graphic. You can write whatever you want on the sign.

Get over it yourself, Softy.  :-:cawg:-: 

Original Quill wrote:In my opinion, I think it's a phenomenon that distinguishes itself because society has for so long abused and suppressed gays.  Consequently, they have hidden themselves.  It's a general  celebration of society's new found enlightenment that causes gays to want to celebrate their own personal freedom.   We just celebrate happy things.

But the guy in the article doesn't seem to share your opinion nor do gay guys that I know.In fact,many gay people are disgusted by the 'coming out'thing because they prefer to keep their business private.

Surely they should have the choice regarding their privacy?

Original Quill wrote:In my opinion, I think it's a phenomenon that distinguishes itself because society has for so long abused and suppressed gays.  Consequently, they have hidden themselves.  It's a general  celebration of society's new found enlightenment that causes gays to want to celebrate their own personal freedom.   We just celebrate happy things.

Whatever some neanderthals think homophobia still exists in society and some people still find it really hard to come out to family and friends etc and some parents will still, in this day and age, throw their kids out when they find out.

This new Eastenders story line is very accurate in it's portrayal of a teenager coming out to his parents, this story line will explore what happens when one parent accepts their sons homosexuality but the other doesn't, exploring real life issues, and trying to help out both real life parties.

Very good idea IMO   

Original Quill wrote:

Shady wrote:

A classic example.

I have used that same graphic.  You can write whatever you want on the sign.

Get over it yourself, Softy.   :-:cawg:-: 

Nothing to get over shipmate....just asking a question.

Shady wrote:But the guy in the article doesn't seem to share your opinion nor do gay guys that I know.In fact,many gay people are disgusted by the 'coming out'thing because they prefer to keep their business private.

Surely they should have the choice regarding their privacy?

Ooh, I think outing someone against their wishes is a horrible thing to do, a real intrusion on their privacy. At the end of the day, there are things we choose to share about ourselves and things we choose to keep private, and we should be making those decisions for ourselves.

The way I think I can relate to this is being an atheist. Some people in my life know I am, others don't. Some people, I don't want to know. I understand that we talk about one another and sometimes things slip out, but I'd be pissed if anybody intentionally told someone that I didn't want to have that knowledge.

The reason I don't want some people to know about my atheism is because of how they'd react, obviously. I don't need my mother, for example, telling me I'm going to hell, or asking whether I don't think my dad is in heaven. I'd just prefer not to deal with that.

Were I to tell the whole world of my feelings about religion, I'd be facing that from her and who knows else? And if I were a well-known person, I could be facing thousands or millions of such responses.

So obviously it would take a lot of bravery on my behalf. Now if I were gay, I'd likely also be choosing to face the derision of all those people because I wanted people to start thinking that people like myself aren't deviants or whatever other insult a homophobe might use. It would take even more courage. So I think that's why other people feel the need to congratulate people -- not that being gay is in itself an accomplishment, but that being openly gay, in a world in which many people still don't accept homosexuals as equals, is brave. And I think that at some point, every member of a minority that has been oppressed, ostracized or whatever feels like saying, "I am this and I'm okay."

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Shady wrote:But the guy in the article doesn't seem to share your opinion nor do gay guys that I know.In fact,many gay people are disgusted by the 'coming out'thing because they prefer to keep their business private.

Surely they should have the choice regarding their privacy?

Ooh, I think outing someone against their wishes is a horrible thing to do, a real intrusion on their privacy. At the end of the day, there are things we choose to share about ourselves and things we choose to keep private, and we should be making those decisions for ourselves.

The way I think I can relate to this is being an atheist. Some people in my life know I am, others don't. Some people, I don't want to know. I understand that we talk about one another and sometimes things slip out, but I'd be pissed if anybody intentionally told someone that I didn't want to have that knowledge.

The reason I don't want some people to know about my atheism is because of how they'd react, obviously. I don't need my mother, for example, telling me I'm going to hell, or asking whether I don't think my dad is in heaven. I'd just prefer not to deal with that.

Were I to tell the whole world of my feelings about religion, I'd be facing that from her and who knows else? And if I were a well-known person, I could be facing thousands or millions of such responses.

So obviously it would take a lot of bravery on my behalf. Now if I were gay, I'd likely also be choosing to face the derision of all those people because I wanted people to start thinking that people like myself aren't deviants or whatever other insult a homophobe might use. It would take even more courage. So I think that's why other people feel the need to congratulate people -- not that being gay is in itself an accomplishment, but that being openly gay, in a world in which many people still don't accept homosexuals as equals, is brave. And I think that at some point, every member of a minority that has been oppressed, ostracized or whatever feels like saying, "I am this and I'm okay."

And at the same time I have seen gays "out" other gays who are in the closet in the most hateful way, revelling in it.

And then we have blacks.

The guy who played mandella - blacks were saying "he's gonna be the first black James Bond" - he said - "i don't wanna be the first black Bond, I just want to be the next Bond".

The first woman this, the first black that.

What is it - "get over it".

lol

Stands up and applauds Ben!   Best post I've seen in a long time about people 'coming out'.    I used to be married to a transvestite, that wasn't the reason we split up, he was and is the loveliest man and contrary to what most people think he, like most transvestites, wasn't gay.   But he had exactly the same problem with telling his mother, who was terribly religious and would have told him that he would go to hell.    He never could tell her, and it meant that there was a part of himself he was hiding from her and he never felt comfortable around her in case he said something that gave away his secret.

Sassy wrote:Stands up and applauds Ben!   Best post I've seen in a long time about people 'coming out'.    I used to be married to a transvestite, that wasn't the reason we split up, he was and is the loveliest man and contrary to what most people think he, like most transvestites, wasn't gay.   But he had exactly the same problem with telling his mother, who was terribly religious and would have told him that he would go to hell.    He never could tell her, and it meant that there was a part of himself he was hiding from her and he never felt comfortable around her in case he said something that gave away his secret.

lol

You can lol as much as you like. He is a better man than you could ever hope to be.

Ex husband?

lol

One of my mates at the gay youth group that we attended, back in the day, his father was a transvestite, i used to stay over quite a lot..He used to come over quite a lot, there was never any problem and i remember having chats with his Mum after my mate moved out (i rented my mates room of her)..

She said that they'd got separated and then divorced because he met someone else, simple as that.

BigAndy9 wrote:Ex husband?

lol

So? You don't think people sometimes split up for other reasons than they stop loving each other? There were circumstances that made it impossible, broke both our hearts but had to be faced. And those circumstances had nothing to do with him being a transvestite.

Thanks, Sassy!

Ben_Reilly wrote:Thanks, Sassy!

You're most welcome. I get heartly sick of morons who think they are better because they are macho. Nine times out of ten they are the sickest members of society.

BigAndy9 wrote:And at the same time I have seen gays "out" other gays who are in the closet in the most hateful way, revelling in it.

And then we have blacks.

The guy who played mandella - blacks were saying "he's gonna be the first black James Bond" - he said - "i don't wanna be the first black Bond, I just want to be the next Bond".

The first woman this, the first black that.

What is it - "get over it".

lol

Gay people shouldn't feel entitled to out other gay people. Like I said, that's your information and society should let you control it. But I can see where some people might misguidedly be thinking it's for "the good of the movement." And when politicians are gay but pass anti-gay policies, they deserve to be outed as it illustrates their hypocrisy (not to mention that they chose a life in the spotlight and under the microscope).

Yeah, then we have "blacks." You know, just offhand, I can't think of anyone who says "blacks" who isn't racist ... and though that's a bit beside the point, do you like hearing minorities talk about "the whites"? At any rate, we celebrate milestones that mark progress against prejudice -- Thatcher, Obama, hopefully Hillary Clinton. It's a good thing, and it's one step closer to having everyone live in the world that Shady lives in, where he doesn't consider his orientation to be that big a deal. I hope to live in a world someday when your skin color, orientation or religious views are not that big a deal.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:And at the same time I have seen gays "out" other gays who are in the closet in the most hateful way, revelling in it.

And then we have blacks.

The guy who played mandella - blacks were saying "he's gonna be the first black James Bond" - he said - "i don't wanna be the first black Bond, I just want to be the next Bond".

The first woman this, the first black that.

What is it - "get over it".

lol

Gay people shouldn't feel entitled to out other gay people. Like I said, that's your information and society should let you control it. But I can see where some people might misguidedly be thinking it's for "the good of the movement." And when politicians are gay but pass anti-gay policies, they deserve to be outed as it illustrates their hypocrisy (not to mention that they chose a life in the spotlight and under the microscope).

Yeah, then we have "blacks." You know, just offhand, I can't think of anyone who says "blacks" who isn't racist ... and though that's a bit beside the point, do you like hearing minorities talk about "the whites"? At any rate, we celebrate milestones that mark progress against prejudice -- Thatcher, Obama, hopefully Hillary Clinton. It's a good thing, and it's one step closer to having everyone live in the world that Shady lives in, where he doesn't consider his orientation to be that big a deal. I hope to live in a world someday when your skin color, orientation or religious views are not that big a deal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Hughes

This Liberal MP is a disgrace, back in the government cabinet i believe.

It would have been great if he had been outed at the time!

Ben_Reilly wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:And at the same time I have seen gays "out" other gays who are in the closet in the most hateful way, revelling in it.

And then we have blacks.

The guy who played mandella - blacks were saying "he's gonna be the first black James Bond" - he said - "i don't wanna be the first black Bond, I just want to be the next Bond".

The first woman this, the first black that.

What is it - "get over it".

lol

Gay people shouldn't feel entitled to out other gay people. Like I said, that's your information and society should let you control it. But I can see where some people might misguidedly be thinking it's for "the good of the movement." And when politicians are gay but pass anti-gay policies, they deserve to be outed as it illustrates their hypocrisy (not to mention that they chose a life in the spotlight and under the microscope).

Yeah, then we have "blacks." You know, just offhand, I can't think of anyone who says "blacks" who isn't racist ... and though that's a bit beside the point, do you like hearing minorities talk about "the whites"? At any rate, we celebrate milestones that mark progress against prejudice -- Thatcher, Obama, hopefully Hillary Clinton. It's a good thing, and it's one step closer to having everyone live in the world that Shady lives in, where he doesn't consider his orientation to be that big a deal. I hope to live in a world someday when your skin color, orientation or religious views are not that big a deal.

Ben - we could live in a place like that.

If only people like you stopped going on about it.

 

Catman wrote: 

Mr Catman - I believe we do live in a place where all types are accepted. I certainly accept them and do not witness any of the hatred I read about. And that's my point - the only time I ever hear about it is when I see protests and hateful articles by groups who are saying they are being persecuted.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Catman wrote: 

Mr Catman - I believe we do live in a place where all types are accepted.  I certainly accept them and do not witness any of the hatred I read about.  And that's my point - the only time I ever hear about it is when I see protests and hateful articles by groups who are saying they are being persecuted.

Really? You never hear about people being persecuted over race, orientation, religious beliefs, etc.?

I'll have to dig up some articles for you then.

I think andy's proposition was limited to gays.

Still, I disagree andy.  You can't live in San Francisco without experiencing gayness every moment of every day.  And it's OK.  Every Christmas several of us (straights) are invited to dinner at a gay couple's home. We've don it for about 15-years.  Every one gets along and it is a fantastic mixture of gays and straights of all stripes.  You don't have to wait for a protest.

And I think that is the point.  You, andy, have to wait for a protest or an article, because you distance yourself from gays and a gay lifestyle.  Try just accepting it and you'd be surprised how many excellent friends you will gain..

Original Quill wrote:I think andy's proposition was limited to gays.

Original Quill wrote:

Still, I disagree andy.  You can't live in San Francisco without experiencing gayness every moment of every day.  And it's OK.  Every Christmas several of us (straights) are invited to dinner at a gay couple's home.  We've don it for about 15-years.  Every one gets along and it is a fantastic mixture of gays and straights of all stripes.  You don't have to wait for a protest.

And I think that is the point.  You, andy, have to wait for a protest or an article, because you distance yourself from gays and a gay lifestyle.  Try just accepting it and you'd be surprised how many excellent friends you will gain..

Not really IMO!

Andy is much more interested in persecuting 'foreigners' rather than gay people, i think that gay people are second on his list.

Shady..His pet hates are Muslims and gays, but since there aren't any Muslims here.(bar one)..And SM will know what i'm talking about here!...He has chosen to attack the gay community rather than the Muslim one!  

Well my overall point is, the way out lies in the direction of an attitude adjustment.  The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in the stars but in ourselves...

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Shady wrote:But the guy in the article doesn't seem to share your opinion nor do gay guys that I know.In fact,many gay people are disgusted by the 'coming out'thing because they prefer to keep their business private.

Surely they should have the choice regarding their privacy?

Ooh, I think outing someone against their wishes is a horrible thing to do, a real intrusion on their privacy. At the end of the day, there are things we choose to share about ourselves and things we choose to keep private, and we should be making those decisions for ourselves.

The way I think I can relate to this is being an atheist. Some people in my life know I am, others don't. Some people, I don't want to know. I understand that we talk about one another and sometimes things slip out, but I'd be pissed if anybody intentionally told someone that I didn't want to have that knowledge.

The reason I don't want some people to know about my atheism is because of how they'd react, obviously. I don't need my mother, for example, telling me I'm going to hell, or asking whether I don't think my dad is in heaven. I'd just prefer not to deal with that.

Were I to tell the whole world of my feelings about religion, I'd be facing that from her and who knows else? And if I were a well-known person, I could be facing thousands or millions of such responses.

So obviously it would take a lot of bravery on my behalf. Now if I were gay, I'd likely also be choosing to face the derision of all those people because I wanted people to start thinking that people like myself aren't deviants or whatever other insult a homophobe might use. It would take even more courage. So I think that's why other people feel the need to congratulate people -- not that being gay is in itself an accomplishment, but that being openly gay, in a world in which many people still don't accept homosexuals as equals, is brave. And I think that at some point, every member of a minority that has been oppressed, ostracized or whatever feels like saying, "I am this and I'm okay."

Good afternoon Ben.

Great minds think alike & you've taken the words out of my mouth.Excellent post.

My impression with homosexuality these days is that it is widely accepted in the UK & that it is the norm.Having discussed this very thing with my grown up kids,they agree that too much empahisis is placed on coming out & things like gay parades.....

Must go I'm being called for dinner.

Shady wrote:My impression with homosexuality these days is that it is widely accepted in the UK & that it is the norm.Having discussed this very thing with my grown up kids,they agree that too much empahisis is placed on coming out & things like gay parades.....

Must go I'm being called for dinner.

Shoud have thought of that when y'all were condemning gays.  Too much emphasis? Do I detect a little duplicity?

Original Quill wrote:

Shady wrote:My impression with homosexuality these days is that it is widely accepted in the UK & that it is the norm.Having discussed this very thing with my grown up kids,they agree that too much empahisis is placed on coming out & things like gay parades.....

Must go I'm being called for dinner.

Shoud have thought of that when y'all were condemning gays.  Too much emphasis?  Do I detect a little duplicity?

Maybe, but not everyone condemned or still condemns gays & in my opinion the whole anti gay perception was so over the top.But then again maybe I didn't see that much persecution because I've not given gay people hard times purely for being gay.

Sure I give them stick,as I explained to you when they take themselves too seriously but otherwise with me it's a case of live & let live.

I shall keep saying it.

Roll on the day when a person's sexuality is of no consequence.

NemsAgain wrote:I shall keep saying it.

Roll on the day when a person's sexuality is of no consequence.

Agreed Nems which is why we must protect gay people from the gay extremists who have made life harder for the decent gay people who value their privacy.Idiots like Tatchell who scream in the faces of suspected gays to come out is an abomination & should be made a specific crime in law.

NemsAgain wrote:I shall keep saying it.

Roll on the day when a person's sexuality is of no consequence.

....When the neanderthals all die off!   

@quill
he has a point
My Generation have never condemened gays (In Sydney anyway) the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras has been a Major televised event my entire life. I know Alan Carr (Gay UK comedian) says that he thought he had gone to a different planet when he came to Sydney to find whole streets of gay bars and just normal bars with openly gay people in them. Plus Dame Edna(and others) put a lot homophobs in their place a long time ago (all before I was born, so I don't know a Sydney without the gay community)

Time moves on, sort of like the race thing. People are getting over it. Personally I think we are still at a point where it is fair enough to 'come out' as some people may change the way they treat you.

@ben
on the blacks thing
Obama is called 'the first black president' a lot. I actually agree with Andy a bit, It should be acknoledged that Obama is black, but I don't think it is fair to focus on that because it actually diminishes his quite successful presidency.

I am not sure how much my observations are worth regarding this,
I have had a friend point out to me that I don't see some prejudices because people wont display them around me, particularly once they know my opinions which I am too ready to share.... I have had Very heated arguments with the head of the ADL (Aussie equivelent of the EDL racist group) which came close to a punch up.

I have no idea, Shady.
Maybe it's to do with the fact that they shouldn't feel ashamed of their sexual preferences.
Maybe saying you like the same sex should be treated as casually as saying you like the opposite sex.

Ever think of that?

veya wrote:like the race thing. People are getting over it.

Two words: Trayvon Martin.

@quill
Don't make me tell you Americans Are not real people.     


That would not have happened here for Mutlipule reasons. A part from being over the race thing we also don't feel that a civilized society lets people walk around with weapons to kill at range. When that happened we were like well of course it is America, The nation of super-unskilled gun nuts that think their fucking heros. Some Gun Nut murders an innocent kid because he cant do threat recognition? not surprised considering you have had multipule case of parents shooting their own kids because they are so Pathetic with gun safety and too cowardly to try an check if the person is threat ( I know the nuts talk about safety but they dont follow it because gun safety only exist when there is NO gun) When you combine with the racists you have left what hope did a black kid have in the hell hole that is the USA?

veya_victaous wrote:@quill
Don't make me tell you Americans Are not real people.      


That would not have happened here for Mutlipule reasons. A part from being over the race thing we also don't feel that a civilized society lets people walk around with weapons to kill at range. When that happened we were like well of course it is America, The nation of super-unskilled gun nuts that think their fucking heros. Some Gun Nut murders an innocent kid because he cant do threat recognition? not surprised considering you have had multipule case of parents shooting their own kids because they are so Pathetic with gun safety and too cowardly to try an check if the person is threat ( I know the nuts talk about safety but they dont follow it because gun safety only exist when there is NO gun) When you combine with the racists you have left what hope did a black kid have in the hell hole that is the USA?

Ah, you don't like America and think it's a hell hole? Yes, I know the type.

veya_victaous wrote:@quill
Don't make me tell you Americans Are not real people.      


That would not have happened here for Mutlipule reasons. A part from being over the race thing we also don't feel that a civilized society lets people walk around with weapons to kill at range. When that happened we were like well of course it is America, The nation of super-unskilled gun nuts that think their fucking heros. Some Gun Nut murders an innocent kid because he cant do threat recognition? not surprised considering you have had multipule case of parents shooting their own kids because they are so Pathetic with gun safety and too cowardly to try an check if the person is threat ( I know the nuts talk about safety but they dont follow it because gun safety only exist when there is NO gun) When you combine with the racists you have left what hope did a black kid have in the hell hole that is the USA?

You seem to attribute this whole thing to the gun culture debate.  While America's gun obsession is in the periphery of the matter, it is way far from central.  Trayvon Martin's death was racism.  It was racism that caused Zimmerman to target and stalk a Black child.  It was racism that said "they always get away with it."  It was racism that caused the confrontation.  It was racism that pulled the trigger.  It was, through and through, a racist murder of the sort that we have seen in the South for the past 150-years in America.

What is more audacious in all of this is not the attitude of a sick man like Zimmerman...sickos and madmen are a given in any society.  No, what is most audacious is the attitude of a sick society, like the American South, that gives us six jurors that can justify this whole ungodly scenario. Therein is the evil of this situation.

So, you can prattle on about your opposition to gun control, but you can't tell me 'people are getting over their racism'.  Isn't it in Oz that the ostrich sticks his head in the sand?  We've just lived through a US Supreme Court decision that said we no longer need the voter protection laws of 1965 because racism is over.  http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/25/politics/scotus-voting-rights/  How embarrassing.  God (if there is one) sent us Trayvon Martin, just to make a mockery of that premise.

@quill
but he couldn't have shot him with out a gun. And his whole Defense falls down and it is straight up murder IF you required threat recognition before firing. It doesn't matter what colour the victim is IT IS MURDER. the courts here would not even conisder race, you shot someone your going to jail, there is no justifiable 'self defense' that allows use of a firearm in Australia.

And Like I said USA is fucked, you have been going backwards for years, I Dont put it down to just gun control but your whole culture of creating uneducated poor people for economic grinder. Maybe if you had a decent public education system and looked after your poor, so people had real opportunities than this whole race blame cycle would end.

Therein is the evil of this situation.

YES your right the evil lies in the Disgusting lack of Education in parts of the USA.


Maybe I should qualify my statement and Say 'Australians are getting over it' and no we don't has Ostriches they are from Africa, we have Emus and Cassowarries both are know for being highly confrontational.   
http://www.cracked.com/video_18693_why-cassowary-most-terrifying-animal-ever.html
P.S. the Emu can also only move forward, like the kangaroo too, thats why they are on our emblem   

veya_victaous wrote:@quill
but he couldn't have shot him with out a gun. And his whole Defense falls down and it is straight up murder IF you required threat recognition before firing. It doesn't matter what colour the victim is IT IS MURDER. the courts here would not even conisder race, you shot someone your going to jail, there is no justifiable 'self defense' that allows use of a firearm in Australia.

And Like I said USA is fucked, you have been going backwards for years, I Dont put it down to just gun control but your whole culture of creating uneducated poor people for economic grinder. Maybe if you had a decent public education system and looked after your poor, so people had real opportunities than this whole race blame cycle would end.

Therein is the evil of this situation.

YES your right the evil lies in the Disgusting lack of Education in parts of the USA.


Maybe I should qualify my statement and Say 'Australians are getting over it' and no we don't has Ostriches they are from Africa, we have Emus and Cassowarries both are know for being highly confrontational.   
http://www.cracked.com/video_18693_why-cassowary-most-terrifying-animal-ever.html
P.S. the Emu can also only move forward, like the kangaroo too, thats why they are on our emblem   

I didn't know what an emu was until Roy Hudd & Emu!....They are indeed quite scary!   

@Andy
Umm.... I'm from Australia    it is A Hellhole compared to where I'm from.

They Shoot Each other over there for no fucking reason, they have families living in tents (I know that is happening in Europe too, I never said you guys had it good) the Poor have to eat food that is Illegal to sell to Dogs in Australia!!! it is a disgusting place, I don't what you call Hell but a place where humans are treated worse than a bogan's dog, is pretty fucking close.

veya_victaous wrote:@quill
but he couldn't have shot him with out a gun. And his whole Defense falls down and it is straight up murder IF you required threat recognition before firing. It doesn't matter what colour the victim is IT IS MURDER. the courts here would not even conisder race, you shot someone your going to jail, there is no justifiable 'self defense' that allows use of a firearm in Australia.

And Like I said USA is fucked, you have been going backwards for years, I Dont put it down to just gun control but your whole culture of creating uneducated poor people for economic grinder. Maybe if you had a decent public education system and looked after your poor, so people had real opportunities than this whole race blame cycle would end.

Therein is the evil of this situation.

YES your right the evil lies in the Disgusting lack of Education in parts of the USA.


Maybe I should qualify my statement and Say 'Australians are getting over it' and no we don't has Ostriches they are from Africa, we have Emus and Cassowarries both are know for being highly confrontational.   
http://www.cracked.com/video_18693_why-cassowary-most-terrifying-animal-ever.html
P.S. the Emu can also only move forward, like the kangaroo too, thats why they are on our emblem   

You are just overblowing trivia, veya. Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. This was a regular racist assassination, of the kind we have become used to from a 150-year history. Do you blame the rope industry for the thousands of KKK hangings of African Americans? That makes about as much sense.

In any given situation, I look first for the evil, if I'm going to judge. I'll argue gun control on Aurora or Sandy Hook, where it is the essential ingredient. But what distinguishes this situation is how the South, as a society, responds. That evil is far greater than a mechanical instrument that propels projectiles with neither malice, nor even intent. It's even greater than the murderer, Zimmerman. The American South is an infected, deranged society when it comes to African Americans. That's the much bigger story here. We continue to put up with this fact with complete indifference. As I said on another thread, I would welcome succession if it means I can detach myself from such ignorant, evil creatures.

Original Quill wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:@quill
but he couldn't have shot him with out a gun. And his whole Defense falls down and it is straight up murder IF you required threat recognition before firing. It doesn't matter what colour the victim is IT IS MURDER. the courts here would not even conisder race, you shot someone your going to jail, there is no justifiable 'self defense' that allows use of a firearm in Australia.

And Like I said USA is fucked, you have been going backwards for years, I Dont put it down to just gun control but your whole culture of creating uneducated poor people for economic grinder. Maybe if you had a decent public education system and looked after your poor, so people had real opportunities than this whole race blame cycle would end.

YES your right the evil lies in the Disgusting lack of Education in parts of the USA.


Maybe I should qualify my statement and Say 'Australians are getting over it' and no we don't has Ostriches they are from Africa, we have Emus and Cassowarries both are know for being highly confrontational.   
http://www.cracked.com/video_18693_why-cassowary-most-terrifying-animal-ever.html
P.S. the Emu can also only move forward, like the kangaroo too, thats why they are on our emblem   

You are just overblowing trivia, veya.  Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.  This was a regular racist assassination, of the kind we have become used to from a 150-year history.  Do you blame the rope industry for the thousands of KKK hangings of African Americans?  That makes about as much sense.

In any given situation, I look first for the evil, if I'm going to judge.  I'll argue gun control on Aurora or Sandy Hook, where it is the essential ingredient.  But what distinguishes this situation is how the South, as a society, responds.  That evil is far greater than a mechanical instrument that propels projectiles with neither malice, nor even intent.  It's even greater than the murderer, Zimmerman.  The American South is an infected, deranged society when it comes to African Americans.  That's the much bigger story here.  We continue to put up with this fact with complete indifference.  As I said on another thread, I would welcome succession if it means I can detach myself from such ignorant, evil creatures.

Didn't they have a first class, second class & third section on that boat?

The ones in the first and second class sections had the best chance of survival, because the third class section was right at the bottom of the boat?

Catman wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

You are just overblowing trivia, veya.  Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.  This was a regular racist assassination, of the kind we have become used to from a 150-year history.  Do you blame the rope industry for the thousands of KKK hangings of African Americans?  That makes about as much sense.

In any given situation, I look first for the evil, if I'm going to judge.  I'll argue gun control on Aurora or Sandy Hook, where it is the essential ingredient.  But what distinguishes this situation is how the South, as a society, responds.  That evil is far greater than a mechanical instrument that propels projectiles with neither malice, nor even intent.  It's even greater than the murderer, Zimmerman.  The American South is an infected, deranged society when it comes to African Americans.  That's the much bigger story here.  We continue to put up with this fact with complete indifference.  As I said on another thread, I would welcome succession if it means I can detach myself from such ignorant, evil creatures.

Didn't they have a first class, second class & third section on that boat?

The ones in the first and second class sections had the best chance of survival, because the third class section was right at the bottom of the boat?

First, Second and Third class correlated with priority in boarding lifeboats.  All lifeboats were above-deck, obviously.  So it didn't matter where they were berthed.

The metaphor deals with fussing with trivialities, when there are more important things at hand.

veya_victaous wrote:@quill
but he couldn't have shot him with out a gun. And his whole Defense falls down and it is straight up murder IF you required threat recognition before firing. It doesn't matter what colour the victim is IT IS MURDER. the courts here would not even conisder race, you shot someone your going to jail, there is no justifiable 'self defense' that allows use of a firearm in Australia.

And Like I said USA is fucked, you have been going backwards for years, I Dont put it down to just gun control but your whole culture of creating uneducated poor people for economic grinder. Maybe if you had a decent public education system and looked after your poor, so people had real opportunities than this whole race blame cycle would end.

Therein is the evil of this situation.

YES your right the evil lies in the Disgusting lack of Education in parts of the USA.


Maybe I should qualify my statement and Say 'Australians are getting over it' and no we don't has Ostriches they are from Africa, we have Emus and Cassowarries both are know for being highly confrontational.   
http://www.cracked.com/video_18693_why-cassowary-most-terrifying-animal-ever.html
P.S. the Emu can also only move forward, like the kangaroo too, thats why they are on our emblem   

so when bill the burglar comes screaming down the corridor of your home, screwdriver ready to stab (or whatever).....you stand there and let him???

strewth, even in britain, we are gradually getting the idea that when it comes to that all bets are off and bill the burglar is AOLQ (any other lawfull quarry)

@Quill
No I blame the USA for the KKK, You guys made them. you seem to beleive that All people are as inherently Racist as Americans, we are not, Not all White people have the same History. Not all people have the same now either, Some of Us are getting past 150 years ago (considering that is 40 years older than our nation, it's not hard).

I Dont blame the Guns themselves I blame the Society that allows them to be so preveleant amoungst them with so little saftey controls. There will Always be evil stupid dickheads whether they are killing a kid for the colour of his skin or shooting up a bunch of school kids, you can prevent the evil stupid dickhead killing as many people as easily IF you dont give him access to a gun. (end of story, no point arguing the best way to shut the gate if the horse has bolted) the USA has decided not to take the sensible action to prevent these events. I don't blame the gun I blame the people that though letting him have access to a gun was an acceptable risk, if it allowed themselves access to a gun too.

Do you Blame the Young African American from the Ghettos for the Gang Crime? or do you see them as a product of the society in which they are raised? if so why don't you extend the same to the poor dumb redneck hicks of southern USA? I do, I isn't the individuals fault they were raised in an community that idolises ignorance and allows the religon to contaminate education. Why the hell is someone teaching creationism in Science, It isn't science.
The point.. It is much easier to beleive that your race is better if you beleive there is a magic sky giant (who happens to look like your people) that made everything and makes everything happen for a reason. that there is some sort of divine fate or destiny.
It is much easier to accept, even if we are not equal, we are all just trying to live happy, safe lives and want to see our families do well. If you also accept we were all once Apes living in the same jungle and that from a genetic perepective there is virtually no differenece between us racism seem pretty ridiculous. Some Sterotypes may retain some truth, but there is no reason to hate a group just because of their colour.


As I have Said to Ben and Lurker in the past, I truely Feel sorry for Decent Intelligent People that find themsleves living in the USA.

@Grumpy
you're allowed to use force needed to get them to flee, once fleeing you have to leave them alone you are not allowed to follow or keep attacking them. It is all About threat recognition and Presence, you are only allowed to act if and while they are a threat... the gun laws mean there is no legal reason to have a loaded gun in the house (firing mechanism should be detached and stored in a seperate safe to the rest of the gun) having one on your person means go to jail. So Bill is unlikely to have a gun since he ends up arrested the first time police check him for being suspicious. (that extends to knives as well) this law was introduced when I was in my late teens it dramatically reduced the amount of assults in the area.


For self defense you a limited to what is at hand or unarmed. it isn't the best and police generally are assholes that would prefer that you let Bill stab you so they have an open and shut case. But to be fair Home invasion is very rarly happens to 'innocent' people here, generally a crim on crim crime related to control of drug markets etc.

Original Quill wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:@quill
but he couldn't have shot him with out a gun. And his whole Defense falls down and it is straight up murder IF you required threat recognition before firing. It doesn't matter what colour the victim is IT IS MURDER. the courts here would not even conisder race, you shot someone your going to jail, there is no justifiable 'self defense' that allows use of a firearm in Australia.

And Like I said USA is fucked, you have been going backwards for years, I Dont put it down to just gun control but your whole culture of creating uneducated poor people for economic grinder. Maybe if you had a decent public education system and looked after your poor, so people had real opportunities than this whole race blame cycle would end.

YES your right the evil lies in the Disgusting lack of Education in parts of the USA.


Maybe I should qualify my statement and Say 'Australians are getting over it' and no we don't has Ostriches they are from Africa, we have Emus and Cassowarries both are know for being highly confrontational.   
http://www.cracked.com/video_18693_why-cassowary-most-terrifying-animal-ever.html
P.S. the Emu can also only move forward, like the kangaroo too, thats why they are on our emblem   

You are just overblowing trivia, veya.  Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.  This was a regular racist assassination, of the kind we have become used to from a 150-year history.  Do you blame the rope industry for the thousands of KKK hangings of African Americans?  That makes about as much sense.

In any given situation, I look first for the evil, if I'm going to judge.  I'll argue gun control on Aurora or Sandy Hook, where it is the essential ingredient.  But what distinguishes this situation is how the South, as a society, responds.  That evil is far greater than a mechanical instrument that propels projectiles with neither malice, nor even intent.  It's even greater than the murderer, Zimmerman.  The American South is an infected, deranged society when it comes to African Americans.  That's the much bigger story here.  We continue to put up with this fact with complete indifference.  As I said on another thread, I would welcome succession if it means I can detach myself from such ignorant, evil creatures.

I agree, Its no good focusing on the means of murder, when the motive remains unchecked, I mean, zimmerman could have achieved his intent with a knife, or given the size disparity his bare hands. The fact he shot him as opposed to any other method distracts from the real problem of such a creatures psychology, and the psychology of the society the bred him.