Louisiana Judge Rules That Priests Don’t Have to Report Abuse if They Hear It During Confession

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:02 pm

A Louisiana judge has struck down part of a mandatory reporting law that requires priests to report suspected child abuse.
Because religious freedom, that’s why.

A Louisiana judge has struck down a state requirement that clergy members report suspected child abuse even if they learn about it during a private confessional.

State District Judge Mike Caldwell ruled Friday that the requirement — a Louisiana Children’s Code provision — violates the constitutionally protected religious freedom rights of a Roman Catholic priest accused of neglecting his duty to report a teenager’s abuse allegations to authorities.

The victim, Rebecca Mayeaux, had confided to Jeff Bayhi during confession that she was being molested by a sixty-four-year-old parishioner. Not only did Bayhi not report the abuse, but, according to Mayeaux, he offered appalling advice as well:

In court, Judge Caldwell ruled Bayhi’s religious freedom rights would be violated if he was forced to talk about the alleged confession.

Two years ago, Mayeux told us she went to Father Bayhi seeking advice when she was 14, because she trusted him more than her parents. Court records show when Mayeux went to Bayhi, Rebecca says he told her, “This is your problem, sweep it under the floor and get rid of it.”

But, on the stand today, Father Bayhi told a Judge he can’t even confirm whether someone even came to confession. That’s just how sacred it is. He added no one would trust priests if confessions were public.

Father Paul Counce is a canon lawyer for the Diocese of Baton Rouge. Counce testified this morning that priests can be excommunicated if they break the seal of confession.

In a move that hardly inspires the trust Bayhi claims to be so keen to protect, not only did Bayhi refuse to discuss what happened, but the church tried to prevent Rebecca from discussing their conversation on the stand:

Earlier in the day, the Diocese tried to prohibit Mayeux from testifying about what she told Father Bayhi during that alleged confession. A judge ruled she could testify about what she told him, but her attorney can’t argue that Bayhi was mandated to report that.

After the ruling, Bayhi declared the win a victory for religious liberty.

Source: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2016/03/01/louisiana-judge-rules-that-priests-dont-have-to-report-abuse-if-they-hear-it-during-confession/

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:24 pm

A confession like this would put priests in a difficult position....morally of course they should report child abuse, but their religion states that whatever they hear must remain secret.....which just proves how religion can mess up a persons responsibilities.

However to not advise the child to speak to someone who could report this.....and to tell her it was 'her problem' and to 'sweep it under the floor' shows how corrupt he (and God knows how many more priests and people who hide under the banner of religion) really is.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:30 pm

I think the priest could have advised the girl to go to the police, but I don't think he should be forced to report such a conversation himself.

I think that the idea of the confessional is that people are confessing or talking to God via a priest, so it's supposed to be confidential - like praying really but doing it via another person.

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:32 pm

You don't think he should report it to the police!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!FFS

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:38 pm

What a horrible position to be in. I understand why he felt he could not personally report it to the police, people who believe in confession believe the priest is just a channel to God don't they?
If priests reported what they heard in confession no one would ever tell of their sins.
But he could have asked the girls permission for him to deal with it outside the confessional box, or at least he should have advised the girl to tell someone who COULD do something about it.

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:40 pm

Sorry Syl, but I think when they know a child is being abused there are absolutely no reasons or excuses. That's how the priests get away with it.

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:43 pm

sassy wrote:Sorry Syl, but I think when they know a child is being abused there are absolutely no reasons or excuses. That's how the priests get away with it.

It proves (to me) just how damaging religion can be .
But priests take the oath, and I suppose they feel that a promise given to God is more important than even a childs safety.

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:47 pm

Syl wrote:
sassy wrote:Sorry Syl, but I think when they know a child is being abused there are absolutely no reasons or excuses. That's how the priests get away with it.

It proves (to me) just how damaging religion can be .
But priests take the oath, and I suppose they feel that a promise given to God is more important than even a childs safety.

I wonder if they have asked themselves whether their god would agree with them, and if he does, what sort of god that makes him.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:48 pm

sassy wrote:You don't think he should report it to the police!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!FFS

Why? The girl could have done that. If she had asked him to do so, fair enough, but she went to him on the understanding that what she said was confidential, right?

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:49 pm

sassy wrote:Sorry Syl, but I think when they know a child is being abused there are absolutely no reasons or excuses. That's how the priests get away with it.

He didn't "get away" with anything. He didn't ask the girl to go and confess to him.

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:50 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
sassy wrote:Sorry Syl, but I think when they know a child is being abused there are absolutely no reasons or excuses. That's how the priests get away with it.

He didn't "get away" with anything. He didn't ask the girl to go and confess to him.

The priests who have committed abuse themselves and the church has moved them around because they are 'dedicated to god'.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:52 pm

sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

He didn't "get away" with anything. He didn't ask the girl to go and confess to him.

The priests who have committed abuse themselves and the church has moved them around because they are 'dedicated to god'.

This particular situation is a bit different because it was the victim who went to the priest, not the perpetrator.

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:53 pm

Still all to do with rules and regulations in the church and putting them before the child.

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:53 pm

sassy wrote:
Syl wrote:

It proves (to me) just how damaging religion can be .
But priests take the oath, and I suppose they feel that a promise given to God is more important than even a childs safety.

I wonder if they have asked themselves whether their god would agree with them, and if he does, what sort of god that makes him.

I think to people who devote their lives to God (and live within the confines of the church and it's rulings) probably don't question the man made rules they have vowed to follow.
They cover up for each other don't they....so keeping quiet about one of their parishioners isn't much different.

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:54 pm

Absolutely right, and it makes me sick to my stomach. It never occurs to them that by doing nothing they are guilty by association.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:57 pm

They'd have to do away with Confession, and they're not going to do that. I guess they feel they can't cherry pick as to which confessions should be passed on and which shouldn't.

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:57 pm

All the cover ups are sickening. But it happens, not only in the catholic church but in all religions.
Its unnatural the way priests live anyway. I'm sure no loving God would expect his followers to live a life of celibacy and secrecy.

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:59 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:They'd have to do away with Confession, and they're not going to do that. I guess they feel they can't cherry pick as to which confessions should be passed on and which shouldn't.

True....no one would go if they knew the priest would tell.
Confessional is just a way to act like an arsehole in real life and come away with a clear conscience though isn't it?

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:01 pm

It's not just an issue re religion anyway. I was reading about that pilot who committed suicide and crashed the plane into a mountain - taking all the passengers and crew with him. He'd seen several doctors, but they were not allowed to pass their concerns on to anyone else.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/suicidal-germanwings-pilot-killed-son-7547404

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:02 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:They'd have to do away with Confession, and they're not going to do that. I guess they feel they can't cherry pick as to which confessions should be passed on and which shouldn't.

True....no one would go if they knew the priest would tell.
Confessional is just a way to act like an arsehole in real life and come away with a clear conscience though isn't it?

I don't know Syl - I don't indulge in it myself.

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:05 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:

True....no one would go if they knew the priest would tell.
Confessional is just a way to act like an arsehole in real life and come away with a clear conscience though isn't it?

I don't know Syl - I don't indulge in it myself.

Neither do I, I'd be there all day. Razz

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:06 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't know Syl - I don't indulge in it myself.

Neither do I, I'd be there all day.

That made me laugh lol

by eddie Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:06 pm

Let's face it, he could've done so anonymously and then asked his God for forgiveness, couldn't he?

God is supposed to be able to see inside a man's heart....so the priest could've felt comfortable with his decision if he truly believed the word of his own God....

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:08 pm

Syl wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't know Syl - I don't indulge in it myself.

Neither do I, I'd be there all day.

And then you'd go out and nick a traffic cone - I know about people like you. Laughing

by Syl Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:11 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Syl wrote:

Neither do I, I'd be there all day.

And then you'd go out and nick a traffic cone - I know about people like you.

Louisiana Judge Rules That Priests Don’t Have to Report Abuse if They Hear It During Confession 8004623-sexy-woman-with-traffic-cones

by veya_victaous Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:33 pm

it is pretty ridicolous to even suggest there is any case for any adult in a position with a duty of care over a child should not report child abuse of that child.

Teacher, Doctor or Priest doesn't matter.
if they fail in their duty of care they dont deserve to be part of society, and can spend their life in jail.

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:37 pm

veya_victaous wrote:it is pretty ridicolous to even suggest there is any case for any adult in a position with a duty of care over a child should not report child abuse of that child.

Teacher, Doctor or Priest doesn't matter.
if they fail in their duty of care they dont deserve to be part of society, and can spend their life in jail.

Absolutely agree. No excuses, no reasons. If a adult knows a child is being abused and does nothing, the are complicant in the abuse.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:48 pm

The Louisiana judge didn't agree with either of you.

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:01 pm

You worry what judges think? How about having your own moral compass.

by veya_victaous Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:01 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:The Louisiana judge didn't agree with either of you.

I'll beat Quill to it

"it's the redneck south what do you expect?" Cool

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:03 pm

sassy wrote:You worry what judges think? How about having your own moral compass.

I've already explained what I think. The girl could have told someone else, but she chose to tell someone who she knew would not repeat what she said. Apparently, she tried to sue him later or something. Absurd.

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:27 pm

She choose to tell someone in authority who she trusted, which is a very hard thing for an abused child to do. The fact that you think it is absurd that she sued him because he did nothing just shows how little you understand about child abuse, the fact that children cannot bring themselves to talk about it because their abuser makes them think it is there fault, and that when they finally pluck up the courage and the person they trust lets them down is a continuation of that abuse, says bloody everything.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:32 pm

sassy wrote:She choose to tell someone in authority who she trusted, which is a very hard thing for an abused child to do. The fact that you think it is absurd that she sued him because he did nothing just shows how little you understand about child abuse, the fact that children cannot bring themselves to talk about it because their abuser makes them think it is there fault, and that when they finally pluck up the courage and the person they trust lets them down is a continuation of that abuse, says bloody everything.

There's more to this story, and as usual it appears to be about money ...

by Major Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:33 pm

Every one in the world has a duty to ensure our children are safe from vile filthy scum and it is their duty as a human being to report them first and foremost whoever they may be.

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:34 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
sassy wrote:She choose to tell someone in authority who she trusted, which is a very hard thing for an abused child to do. The fact that you think it is absurd that she sued him because he did nothing just shows how little you understand about child abuse, the fact that children cannot bring themselves to talk about it because their abuser makes them think it is there fault, and that when they finally pluck up the courage and the person they trust lets them down is a continuation of that abuse, says bloody everything.

There's more to this story, and as usual it appears to be about money ...

There you go again, showing your ignorance. It is about recompense for a life destroyed, that could have been saved.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:35 pm

sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

There's more to this story, and as usual it appears to be about money ...

There you go again, showing your ignorance. It is about recompense for a life destroyed, that could have been saved.

No it's not - it's about money.

by Guest Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:35 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
sassy wrote:

There you go again, showing your ignorance. It is about recompense for a life destroyed, that could have been saved.

No it's not - it's about money.

Empathy and understand of a cockroach.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:37 pm

sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

No it's not - it's about money.

Empathy and understand of a cockroach.

Read up about it, slug.

by Ben Reilly Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:39 pm

A child who is being abused should be able to go to a trusted adult and be taken care of appropriately. The notion that anyone who knows that a person or people are in danger should be bound by some stupid oath not to speak out about it is just lunacy.

I wonder what would happen if an imam was told of a pending terrorist attack in the U.S. but claimed he didn't have to report it because God. I bet the judge would have ruled differently.

by Raggamuffin Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:40 pm

The girl did tell her parents, and they went to the police. The man who the girl claimed was abusing her died, so they're suing his estate, and the priest. What was the timeframe involved?

by veya_victaous Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:16 am

Stormee wrote:Every one in the world has a duty to ensure our children are safe from vile filthy scum and it is their duty as a human being to report them first and foremost whoever they may be.

how to tell something is pretty much indisputable Cool

If Stormee, Sassy and Myself all agree Laughing

by Guest Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:36 am

Syl wrote:All the cover ups are sickening. But it happens, not only in the catholic church but in all religions.
Its unnatural the way priests live anyway. I'm sure no loving God would expect his followers to live a life of celibacy and secrecy.

Well, since I have little to zero faith in 'BLOGS' and the people that follow them especially for such heinous social issues plastered up by an Atheist Blogger; I went and found a trusted source!

Louisiana child law violates priest's religious freedom,
judge rules
By The Associated Press The Associated Press
on February 27, 2016 at 7:39 PM, updated February 27, 2016 at 7:48 PM
BATON ROUGE, La. — A Louisiana judge has struck down a state requirement that clergy members report suspected child abuse even if they learn about it during a private confessional.
State District Judge Mike Caldwell ruled Friday that the requirement — a Louisiana Children's Code provision — violates the constitutionally protected religious freedom rights of a Roman Catholic priest accused of neglecting his duty to report a teenager's abuse allegations to authorities.
The Advocate reports that Caldwell ruled in favor of the Rev. Jeff Bayhi in a lawsuit that 22-year-old Rebecca Mayeaux filed against the priest and the Roman Catholic Diocese of Baton Rouge in 2009.
Mayeaux says she was 14 in 2008 when she told Bayhi during confession that a 64-year-old parishioner was sexually abusing her. Mayeaux claims Bayhi, pastor of Our Lady of the Assumption church in Clinton, told her to "sweep it under the floor and get rid of it."
The Associated Press does not usually identify victims of sexual abuse, but Mayeaux went public with her case in a 2014 interview with WBRZ-TV.
"It's time to speak up and get the word out," she told the television station at the time.
Bayhi testified on Friday that he would be automatically excommunicated if he revealed what was said in confession.
"We're just always happy when the court upholds religious liberties," Bayhi said as he left the courthouse.
Brian Abels, one of Mayeaux's attorneys, said they would evaluate their options after the ruling, which can be appealed to the Louisiana Supreme Court.
Bishop Robert Muench, of Baton Rouge diocese, praised the ruling in a statement Friday.
"The court's decision to uphold the First Amendment right to the free exercise of religion is essential and we appreciate the ruling," he said.
The state Children's Code says clergy members are mandatory reporters of suspected abuse. The code also states that "notwithstanding any claim of privileged communication, any mandatory reporter who has cause to believe that a child's physical or mental health or welfare is endangered" must report that information to authorities. http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2016/02/judge_rules_child_law_violates.html

Shameful and highly disturbing that all this priest had to do was ask this young girl to allow him to escort her to the nearest police station and stand beside her while she provided the authorities the horrible events! Sweet Jesus these cretins and their hiding behind the Church; either to abuse those innocent children or to ignore the abusers that are getting away with their EVIL DEEDS! GUTLESS and CRUEL...and I'm hoping that the victim and her legal team push this all the way to the Supreme Court! There will be other faceless victims; these perverts just don't stop and the children just keep getting abused!

Again - a prime example of why this GREAT NATION wasn't founded on any one religious doctrine --- the 'LAW' supersede their right to hide a deviant human because they assume they've got a pipe-line to GOD'S ear! Louisiana Judge Rules That Priests Don’t Have to Report Abuse if They Hear It During Confession 2396444674

Louisiana Judge Rules That Priests Don’t Have to Report Abuse if They Hear It During Confession 2396444674

by Raggamuffin Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:21 am

It seems to me that the alleged incidents happened around July 2008, and that the girl's parents found out about the situation around that time or shortly afterwards. The chap in question died in early 2009 whilst the police were investigating. There doesn't seem much time for this priest to have "ruined" the girl's life by not reporting something she allegedly told him in the Confessional.

It also seems to me that this isn't a very good example of the general issue because it's about money IMO. It looks to me like the parents and/or the girl are suing anyone they can think of in order to get damages.

Now that it's been established that the priest had no duty to report something he was told in the Confessional, the chances of them getting damages from him or the Church are quite low, yes? The issue of what he allegedly said to the girl, or even the issue of whether or not she did tell him anything in the Confessional, is largely irrelevant.

The next step will of course be establish that he knew about the incidents outside of the Confessional.

There's more info on the background to the story in this link.

https://www.law.yale.edu/system/files/documents/pdf/Clinics/mayeux_-_brief_in_opp.pdf

by Major Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:38 am

It is so easy to be dragged away from the point which is , 'should a priest disclose something he hears in a confession'?

This is a age old question which I remember years ago in a black and white movie.

I personally could not, would not cover up such a crime.

How can a priest have a clear conscience when a child is abused and he holds information which will help?

A no brainer, spill the beans.

by Raggamuffin Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:49 am

Stormee wrote:It is so easy to be dragged away from the point which is , 'should a priest disclose something he hears in a confession'?

This is a age old question which I remember years ago in a black and white movie.

I personally could not, would not cover up such a crime.

How can a priest have a clear conscience when a child is abused and he holds information which will help?

A no brainer, spill the beans.

Yes - "I Confess" - a great film. Such a question has also featured in a few crime series.

I think it's difficult to put yourself in the shoes of a priest who hears Confession Stormee.

by Guest Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:58 am

What this actually shows is that Priests are not adapting to the 21st century.

They want people to admit to the sins in front of God, by being the instrument to that and by them offering up a set number of prayers as an act of contrition for their sins. This means they signify it is a sin and one that conflicts with the law of the land. It is placing a myth above that is the law of the land and is failing the victims of abuse. They should tell the confessor they have to give themselves up to the law as to not do so, they will have to do so.

The Priest is obligated to tell the truth.

John 8:32 ESV

And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

If the Priest does not act, he is then again placing the law of a myth other that of the state and allowing the sinner to get off with some prayers, viewing that as punishment enough

by Raggamuffin Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:59 am

Priests don't have to adapt to the 21st Century. You don't change your principles just because of which year it is.

by Guest Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:04 am

Raggamuffin wrote:Priests don't have to adapt to the 21st Century. You don't change your principles just because of which year it is.

Yes they do and many have.
The law of the land is what matters, not some myth that is a belief that denies victims seeing justice
Christianity has adapted as it has accepted homosexuality in some of its churches and this is just a number or progressions it has made
So yes principles have changed and if you think it is a principle to not come forward and tell the Police of an abuser to allow them to remain in public to abuse more, then you are culpable to their further crimes

by Raggamuffin Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:07 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Priests don't have to adapt to the 21st Century. You don't change your principles just because of which year it is.

Yes they do and many have.
The law of the land is what matters, not some myth that is a belief that denies victims seeing justice
Christianity has adapted as it has accepted homosexuality in some of its churches and this is just a number or progressions it has made
So yes principles have changed and if you think it is a principle to not come forward and tell the Police of an abuser to allow them to remain in public to abuse more, then you are culpable to their further crimes

Well it's been established that anything said in the Confessional doesn't have to be reported. It's the principle of the Seal of the Confessional to which I'm referring. If someone wants a priest to report something, don't say it to him in the Confessional box.

by Guest Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:10 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

Yes they do and many have.
The law of the land is what matters, not some myth that is a belief that denies victims seeing justice
Christianity has adapted as it has accepted homosexuality in some of its churches and this is just a number or progressions it has made
So yes principles have changed and if you think it is a principle to not come forward and tell the Police of an abuser to allow them to remain in public to abuse more, then you are culpable to their further crimes

Well it's been established that anything said in the Confessional doesn't have to be reported. It's the principle of the Seal of the Confessional to which I'm referring. If someone wants a priest to report something, don't say it to him in the Confessional box.

Its been established by a Judge in one state, who clearly is allowing religious beliefs over that of the law of the land.
That is just plain daft and will allow further abusers to commit more abuse to children, making the priest culpable to these crimes.
As to saying into the confessional box, there is nothing stopping him going to the Police and reporting this crime to stop any chance further abuse. As is he through his beliefs going to relegate innocent children over that of an abuser? Or through the Christian belief God, would forgive him for doing the right thing protecting children?

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