Japanese-American World War Two internment camp revealed

First topic message reminder :



A distant memory from World War Two is the internment camp in Colorado, USA, which held over 7,000 Japanese-American citizens during the war.The prisoners were sent to the Amache Japanese-American Relocation Center in Colorado, near the state border with Kansas. Today the center is abandoned and overgrown, but the original makeshift homes, school, and community hall can still be discovered on the site.
A single watchtower has been rebuilt, but during the war several watchtowers operated around the perimeter of the site to watch over the prisoners.

It is a scary reminder that just 70 years ago American citizens of Japanese origin became prisoners in their own country. It was after the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbour that America joined the war. Many became increasingly suspicious of people of Japanese origin living in the U.S., fearing that they could be spying or collaborating undercover with the Japanese.

Among the Japanese detained were a cartoonist for Walt Disney and a US Army soldier who had already received the Medal of Honor during the war. The center was opened in 1942 and remained open until the war ended in 1945. It wasn’t the only camp created to house Japanese-Americans – more centers existed in Arizona, Arkansas, California, Idaho, Utah, as well as in other states.

It was President Roosevelt who ordered that any Japanese-Americans should be removed to the camps. Around half of the prisoners were children. In Colorado, the camp was located next to a housing complex for poor Mexican-American farm workers, The Seattle Times reports. The Japanese tried to make the best of it and even started their own newspaper, which featured the drawings of the Walt Disney cartoonist imprisoned there. They farmed the land, held seasonal parties and also formed a football team, while their sons of age were deployed into the US Army to fight for the Allies.

The Colorado camp is now listed on the US National Register of Historic Places and the Amache Preservation Society documents and preserves the site and the prisoners’ cemetery that still remains in the camp. Around 121 prisoners who died while in captivity are buried there. A monument has now been built at the site to commemorate all of those Japanese-Americans who were sent into military service during the war.


https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/japanese-american-world-war-two-internment-camp-revealed.html

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

as opposed to????

if theres a 99% chance of the same we should stick our heads in the sand and hope ???  perhaps....

of course i know you would be happy with a terrorist nuke going off in washington....lets face it it would be 100,000$ of technology used to cause 50c of damage.....(thats me being "racist" to and "bullying" you guys   )

now your dick is wrong....if theres a perceived 1% chance then they should be doing everything to either confim it or dispose of the notion....IF its confirmed then its no longer a mere 1% chance and action ...whatever reponse...is perhaps appropriate.

but the POINT is .as I pointed out, above and you are guilty of the same mistake....you CANNOT put OUR present day values onto the actions of THEN....

you dismal conform or suffer lefties hadnt got your goddamned hands on things at that time.....

You just say the most vile things without even thinking about them. Yeah, I'd love for terrorists to nuke D.C. Maybe then they could bomb London and we could throw a big gay terrorist orgy here in Leftyville, slaughter some babies while we're at it and drink their blood

well well...sarcasm you have mastered.....
your next task will be to learn to understand "Sardonicism"

why do you bring "gay" into the equation?...do you harbour secret homophobic tendencies Ben?...perhaps you should consult your hive master for some corrective therapy

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:Do learn to understand that the REAL world does not conform to your twisted view of "what it should be" and learn to recognise that not only are historical EVENTS relevant but historical VIEWPOINTS

you constantly make the schoolboy error of imputing the values of NOW onto the actions of a different time

this does NOT work and at best provides a distorted view of past events, a virtual "rewriting" of history, at worst it results in a total dislocation of cause and effect in the historical context.

were they wrong to do it...by OUR standards, in OUR time frame...yes, Is our time frame relevant to the events of then....NO

so stop making this "personal...as in "my prejudiced view", or I will begin to beleive that you merely wish to close down any debate that "disgrees with you"

Let's not pretend that this happened in Ancient Greece or something. There are people who are still alive that this happened to, since half of the interred were young children (or did you not know that?).

The values of today are reactions to the values of yesteryear. People at that time knew it was wrong and worked to make sure it didn't happen again and that history remembered it.

yes yes ben...we know that.....

BUT you cannot put the "values we now hold into the equation for arriving at that decision in the past.

which means that whilst (as I'm sure you MUST have missed...i said the decision taken , in the light of todays values is wrong HOWVER the resons they did it AT THE TIME are in the light of THEIR values understandable...the fact that its closer to us than say the romans does NOT invalidate that principle...


WE are NOT the same people THEY were...

any more than you are NOT the same person you were 20 years ago....and I certainly do not have the same values and ideas as I did 50 years ago...

jesus whats so difficult about this point....

Didge wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:Do learn to understand that the REAL world does not conform to your twisted view of "what it should be" and learn to recognise that not only are historical EVENTS relevant but historical VIEWPOINTS

you constantly make the schoolboy error of imputing the values of NOW onto the actions of a different time

this does NOT work and at best provides a distorted view of past events, a virtual "rewriting" of history, at worst it results in a total dislocation of cause and effect in the historical context.

were they wrong to do it...by OUR standards, in OUR time frame...yes, Is our time frame relevant to the events of then....NO

so stop making this "personal...as in "my prejudiced view", or I will begin to beleive that you merely wish to close down any debate that "disgrees with you"

Again what a load of inane drivel based again on a pretence that people will betray based solely off their ethnicity. It is the real world where people like you hold unfounded prejudiced beleifs. Again far more Japanese civillians where interrned that German or Italian, clearly showing the racial prejudice here. Not only that the fact that the 442nd produced more medals than other US regiments in history puts paid to your daft reasoning , which is built again from the most ignorant prejudice beliefs
Its not personal, you do hold some very backward prejudiced beliefs that again are based on mistrust where there has been nothing to substanciate such mistrust.
It was the Japanese that attacked on Pearl harbour, not American Japanese
They were wrong to do so for the time, there is no denying this and its not speaking in hindsight as again many American German and Italians did not suffer the same fate

round and round we go..

But you fail to grasp that even then the decision made was based more off racial discrmination.
How many more times when the amount of white American Germans and italians were not as mistrusted as were the American Japanese.
This is where your reasoning falls apart at every turn Victor.
You can keep dressing up as badly as you continue to do, but this was pure and blatant racial discrimination.

Yes yes dearest didge...we KNOW that
we also know that they were wrong (in OUR view) to do so

BUT ...and this is the point I am making ......Racial predudice was ACCEPTABLE ......then

christ on a bike it STILL IS in a significant proportion of the states, a point quill is often at pains to make.....
so for THEM, in THEIR world view they were quite OK with the idea...it seemed logical and "right" thats WHY they did it...

The Niihau incident didn't help, did it?

OMG it gets worse, and what is the point when people are placing their blatantly in the sands.
The irnony is like I say is that one of the most decorated units happened to be American Japanese.
Even the view then by some does not make it acceptable even for the time, the point which seems to elude you at every turn

Didge wrote:OMG it gets worse, and what is the point when people are placing their blatantly in the sands.
The irnony is like I say is that one of the most decorated units happened to be American Japanese.
Even the view then by some does not make it acceptable even for the time, the point which seems to elude you at every turn

uhm...didge...at every point in history "some" disagree with the majority view, which may make them visionaries or terrorists depending...
thats not the point, nor is the fact that that unit performed so admirably....(though it IS relevent subsequently in confirming how wrong the action really was)

the prevailing view was that it was "right" and for reasons that unless you understand them (not, necessarily, implying condoning them) you fail to understand the relevance of it all in context, and this will affect how you view subsequent events..

those actions were not "merely" the actions of some nasty little racist, and to take such a simplistic view is to ignore the overall effect of it both then and now.....

you fail every time on this point, becasue you cannot look beyond your own singular and insular position that every racist action is a simple and deliberately despicable action...you cannot "look through the eyes of your enemy" because to YOU your enemies view is irrelevant......and THAT is dangerous.....

What point, you keep making the same inene bollocks point which has no validity for the time, which you fail to grasp.
So why is it white Americans in German and Italian ethnicity were not treated the same, which you have evaded answering in every single reply?

The view was one born from your mentality actually, one of mistrust to people who were Americans first, which they were denied based off poor thinking. As seen this is further backed up by how tmany ended up being herois in combat and even went on to save another American unit

So again you can keep dressing it up how you like, even for the time to do so was inherantly wrong and based off racial discrimination

The Germans and Italians didn't attack Pearl Harbour.

Raggamuffin wrote:The Germans and Italians didn't attack Pearl Harbour.

Neither did American Japanese
The Americans were also at war with the Germans and Italians.
So your reasoning again is feeble

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:The Germans and Italians didn't attack Pearl Harbour.

Neither did American Japanese
The Americans were also at war with the Germans and Italians.
So your reasoning again is feeble

When did you last do a post without insulting the person you're speaking to?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

Neither did American Japanese
The Americans were also at war with the Germans and Italians.
So your reasoning again is feeble

When did you last do a post without insulting the person you're speaking to?

Poor deflection yet again when you can only provide feeble answers

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

When did you last do a post without insulting the person you're speaking to?

Poor deflection yet again when you can only provide feeble answers

There's another one.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

Poor deflection yet again when you can only provide feeble answers

There's another one.

And another poor deflection

Didge wrote:What point, you keep making the same inene bollocks point which has no validity for the time, which you fail to grasp.
So why is it white Americans in German and Italian ethnicity were not treated the same, which you have evaded answering in every single reply?

The view was one born from your mentality actually, one of mistrust to people who were Americans first, which they were denied based off poor thinking. As seen this is further backed up by how tmany ended up being herois in combat and even went on to save another American unit

So again you can keep dressing it up how you like, even for the time to do so was inherantly wrong and based off racial discrimination

you just cant accept the fact you are wrong...

why wernt the german and italian americans treated the same....because they were white you idiot... this is WHY you fail in this area.....
it was "OK" to be racist to the japanese....they were second or even third class citizens....just like the couloureds who distinguished themselves in combat, but were treated badly non the less....

you fail to see the CONTEXT of all this

you fail to distinguish "understand" from "find acceptable"

I can well understand WHY it happened.....i dont agree with it but I understand WHY it was done...

YOU DONT.....and THAT makes for poor history, the failure to consider a single incident in the light of the prevailing "wholeness" is a terrible mistake......

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

There's another one.

And another poor deflection

And another ...

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

And another poor deflection

And another ...

Yet more woeful deflections and I can keep this up for as long as you want to

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

And another ...

Yet more woeful deflections and I can keep this up for as long as you want to

Oh I know. You can post shite all day long - and all night as well.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

Yet more woeful deflections and I can keep this up for as long as you want to

Oh I know. You can post shite all day long - and all night as well.

Look when you post poor replies and deflections with the intent to derail the thread because of your inadequacies, then get used to that fact, as that is not an insult but a fact.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Oh I know. You can post shite all day long - and all night as well.

Look when you post poor replies and deflections with the intent to derail the thread because of your inadequacies, then get used to that fact, as that is not an insult but a fact.

You should pay more attention to your own inadequacies.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

Look when you post poor replies and deflections with the intent to derail the thread because of your inadequacies, then get used to that fact, as that is not an insult but a fact.

You should pay more attention to your own inadequacies.

And yet again another immature feeble deflection

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You should pay more attention to your own inadequacies.

And yet again another immature feeble deflection

It's very obvious that you're bleating about this issue to make up for your appalling racist behaviour which landed you in the Basement. Don't over-egg the pudding.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

And yet again another immature feeble deflection

It's very obvious that you're bleating about this issue to make up for your appalling racist behaviour which landed you in the Basement. Don't over-egg the pudding.

Yey more feeble deflections which have no relevance to the deabte.

Lord Foul wrote:

Didge wrote:What point, you keep making the same inene bollocks point which has no validity for the time, which you fail to grasp.
So why is it white Americans in German and Italian ethnicity were not treated the same, which you have evaded answering in every single reply?

The view was one born from your mentality actually, one of mistrust to people who were Americans first, which they were denied based off poor thinking. As seen this is further backed up by how tmany ended up being herois in combat and even went on to save another American unit

So again you can keep dressing it up how you like, even for the time to do so was inherantly wrong and based off racial discrimination

you just cant accept the fact you are wrong...

why wernt the german and italian americans treated the same....because they were white you idiot...  this is WHY you fail in this area.....
it was "OK" to be racist to the japanese....they were second or even third class citizens....just like the couloureds who distinguished themselves in combat, but were treated badly non the less....

you fail to see the CONTEXT of all this

you fail to distinguish "understand" from "find acceptable"

I can well understand WHY it happened.....i dont agree with it but I understand WHY it was done...

YOU DONT.....and THAT makes for poor history, the failure to consider a single incident in the light of the prevailing "wholeness" is a terrible mistake......

I think everyone understands they were pretty racist in those days, you don't have some remarkable insight or anything. What you do seem to do is have a remarkable capacity for saying that bad things were OK in other eras and places. In fact, you seem to have a wonderful willingness to understand other cultures as long as they were oppressing people.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

you just cant accept the fact you are wrong...

why wernt the german and italian americans treated the same....because they were white you idiot...  this is WHY you fail in this area.....
it was "OK" to be racist to the japanese....they were second or even third class citizens....just like the couloureds who distinguished themselves in combat, but were treated badly non the less....

you fail to see the CONTEXT of all this

you fail to distinguish "understand" from "find acceptable"

I can well understand WHY it happened.....i dont agree with it but I understand WHY it was done...

YOU DONT.....and THAT makes for poor history, the failure to consider a single incident in the light of the prevailing "wholeness" is a terrible mistake......

I think everyone understands they were pretty racist in those days, you don't have some remarkable insight or anything. What you do seem to do is have a remarkable capacity for saying that bad things were OK in other eras and places. In fact, you seem to have a wonderful willingness to understand other cultures as long as they were oppressing people.

yers.......

right ho ben

numpty

if you dont "understand" them

you cant EVER put their actions into the correct context, indeed you are making the same mistake as didge which surprises me.....

just becasue I understand why a society or individual did something, good or bad, does not in any way suggest that i agree with what they did. Instead it merely enables me to get a better view of the context of the history...

If we take YOUR view, without the understanding of the issues surrounding them , then in 500 years time this will be just a dried up bit of history, and "oh those ancient americans were vile racists

If we take MY view
in 500 years time we have "yes they were racists, and this particular piece of racism was driven not only by pureley racist tendancies, but also the paranoia of war, and the general social attitude that not only were those of other races "inferior, but in some ways less honourable and therfore dangerous.."



it the difference between explaing to some years on, the difference between racism based purely on skin colour, which is illogical under ANY circumstance, and racism based on a view of the innate "supposed qualities" of other races, whhich, given certain contexts could be made into a "nationally appealing" logic.

it shows how propaganda can be used in a particular circumstance and much more....

without the understanding, the history is nothing but words on a page........


also bad things (i.e things which we think are bad TODAY,) were NOT bad THEN, if they were acceptable to the majority..

some things change
others Dont

it WAS ok to be racist then
it wasnt ok to murder then

it is now NOT ok to be racist
it is STILL not ok to murder

the romans were rampant paedophiles

by OUR present day judgement that is BAD...I mean really bad

does that make the romans "bad people" ?

only by our standards, a roman would be genuinely puzzled by OUR values...he just wouldnt "get it"
and he certainly wouldnt adjudge his people as bad

so were the romans "bad people"

OR

were they normal people who, for whatever reason did things WE find wrong today??

upon your answer lies your ability to understand a little of how the romans viewed the world, and how and why they did what they did.

the greatest mistake in viewing any past event ...even recently past events is to fail to understand the context and psychology of those involved and then to place our context and psychology and values upon THEM.

Foul, you have to remember that when the Japanese Americans were interred, false imprisonment had already been illegal in the U.S. for over 150 years. They weren't acting out their values, they were breaking well-established law.

Ben_Reilly wrote:Foul, you have to remember that when the Japanese Americans were interred, false imprisonment had already been illegal in the U.S. for over 150 years. They weren't acting out their values, they were breaking well-established law.

Oh agreed, certainly BUT

here unless you look at WHY they did it you see only simple law breaking and fail to fully appreciate the depths of iniquity that racism can plumb

sure it was illegal, but hey.....they were japs..they dont count, they are inferior (and "non white") so we can ignore the law for them


sure you didnt murder them all, merely locked them away, but in reality the values displayed in this one singular incident is only one very small step removed from the attitudes and disadain shown for the jews in germany. In fact i bet many of the arguments used to justify it were very similar........(btw thats NOT by way of accusing america of being "nazi" so shurrup)

see context is all..........

Lord Foul wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Foul, you have to remember that when the Japanese Americans were interred, false imprisonment had already been illegal in the U.S. for over 150 years. They weren't acting out their values, they were breaking well-established law.

Oh agreed, certainly BUT

here unless you look at WHY they did it you see only simple law breaking and fail to fully appreciate the depths of iniquity that racism can plumb

sure it was illegal, but hey.....they were japs..they dont count, they are inferior (and "non white") so we can ignore the law for them


sure you didnt murder them all, merely locked them away, but in reality the values displayed in this one singular incident is only one very small step removed from the attitudes and disadain shown for the jews in germany. In fact i bet many of the arguments used to justify it were very similar........(btw thats NOT by way of accusing america of being "nazi" so shurrup)  

see context is all..........

Honestly at this point I don't know what we're disagreeing about, because yeah, the context of the issue is that white Americans were fearful, which made them shut down their critical thinking and go along with the racist idea that these people's Japanese blood was somehow going to make traitors out of them. I'm just trying to point out the hypocrisy, because false imprisonment was already illegal.

Understanding? I guess I understand that some people see one, say, black person doing something wrong and decide that all black people always do bad things. But I can't say I'd make the same decision under the same circumstances. I lived in the U.S. after 9/11 when Muslims were held in very low esteem and I didn't just jump on the bandwagon. There are always people who are trying to distract you or make you not think about what you support and just go along with their agenda, and you have to be on guard against that.

Yes it does make the Romans bad people even by the standards of the day, becauser its system was built upon an elite system.
Just as it was wrong even for the time for the US to intern American Japanese, who were denied their equal rights as Americans.
You seem to forget what the US declaration of Independence was formed on.
Here let me remind you.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

So the US was going against its own principles, no matter if at the time it was seen to be right placed off a daft mistrust which as seen turn out to be very false based on the heroic actions of the 442nd Regiment.

I don't see how this was racist. There was a fear that the Japanese people in America might collaborate with the enemy. They might have had relatives in Japan who they were loyal to. You can call it paranoia if you want, but I don't see what it had to do with race.

Raggamuffin wrote:I don't see how this was racist. There was a fear that the Japanese people in America might collaborate with the enemy. They might have had relatives in Japan who they were loyal to. You can call it paranoia if you want, but I don't see what it had to do with race.

It is fundementally racist, because you are treating them not as American citizens of which they were.
It is denying them the fundemental equal rights and all based off a unsubstanciated mistrust.
The question you failed to ask yourself is why have they made a new life in America, the most important aspect you miss. If they were fundemenatlly loyal to Japan they would have stayed in Japan.

It's quite mind numbing to watch people like Cachulin & Ben simplify war & make it look like a board game.

Their naivety is typical of people with computer war game mentality.

Press the button on the handset,the enemy disintegrates & they go onto the next level.

Dummies.

Shady wrote:It's quite mind numbing to watch people like Cachulin & Ben simplify war & make it look like a board game.

Their naivety is typical of people with computer war game mentality.

Press the button on the handset,the enemy disintegrates & they go onto the next level.

Dummies.

Yet another inane drivel reply which adds nothing to the debate.

Look if you cannot engage in the debate I shall be as polite as possible

Then fuck off

Well some of them tried to help a Japanese pilot escape, which would suggest that some of them were not that loyal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident

Maybe Shady would like to explain why the 442nd was one of the most decorated regiments in US history then if he believes it is right to deny American citiens their equal rights.
He seems to also forget what the declaration of Independence states also.

Didge wrote:Yes it does make the Romans bad people even by the standards of the day, becauser its system was built upon an elite system.

yes yes didge...we know that but that elite system was OK at the time ; life was simple...might made right...so NO they were NOT "bad people" in the context of their society...If you argue thus then EVERY previous civilisation and generation before the one we live in was "badder" than ours, and the fact is It wasnt......except by OUR (inevitably predjudiced) point of view.

Just as it was wrong even for the time for the US to intern American Japanese, who were denied their equal rights as Americans.
You seem to forget what the US declaration of Independence was formed on.
Here let me remind you.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

So the US was going against its own principles, no matter if at the time it was seen to be right placed off a daft mistrust which as seen turn out to be very false based on the heroic actions of the 442nd Regiment.

and your point is.......

of course they went against their principleslike the blacks the japanese were "untermensch" in the eyes of a huge % of the population, and that %age was no doubt swelled by propaganda.

so the point is, in spite of all law to the contrary, in spite of the declaration of independance AND the lofty values therein espoused, the americans of THAT TIME were able to overcome the "cognitive dissonance" go against those principles and act as they did....

so...understand WHY?

if you went back in time and asked one "are you wrong to do this ...then they would say no...and beleive it

so by THEIR standards no they were NOT wrong

only by ours....and on multiple counts.....

if history is only hindsight then learning from history is pointless, since w elearn the wrong lesson.

Raggamuffin wrote:Well some of them tried to help a Japanese pilot escape, which would suggest that some of them were not that loyal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident

is that your bases to make all culpable?
Seriously?
There were many Germans spies captured in the US, it did not make them intern all American Germans

I don't see what the fuss is about anyway. They're not in camps now are they?

Didge wrote:

Shady wrote:It's quite mind numbing to watch people like Cachulin & Ben simplify war & make it look like a board game.

Their naivety is typical of people with computer war game mentality.

Press the button on the handset,the enemy disintegrates & they go onto the next level.

Dummies.

Yet another inane drivel reply which adds nothing to the debate.

Look if you cannot engage in the debate I shall be as polite as possible

Then fuck off

You're hardly worth replying to but I will do if it makes you feel good.

I can't engage in this debate because there is no debate on your part as all you are doing is spouting shit.

There,do you feel fulfilled because I replied to you?

It would be nice if all of your posts in this thread were deleted then I could actually involve myself in a decent subject.

Lord Foul wrote:

Didge wrote:Yes it does make the Romans bad people even by the standards of the day, becauser its system was built upon an elite system.

yes yes didge...we know that   but that elite system was OK at the time ; life was simple...might made right...so NO they were NOT "bad people"  in the context of their society...If you argue thus then EVERY previous civilisation and generation before the one we live in was "badder" than ours, and the fact is It wasnt......except by OUR (inevitably predjudiced) point of view.

Just as it was wrong even for the time for the US to intern American Japanese, who were denied their equal rights as Americans.
You seem to forget what the US declaration of Independence was formed on.
Here let me remind you.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

So the US was going against its own principles, no matter if at the time it was seen to be right placed off a daft mistrust which as seen turn out to be very false based on the heroic actions of the 442nd Regiment.

and your point is.......

of course they went against their principleslike the blacks the japanese were "untermensch" in the eyes of a huge % of the population, and that %age was no doubt swelled by propaganda.

so the point is, in spite of all law to the contrary, in spite of the declaration of independance AND the lofty values therein espoused, the americans of THAT TIME were able to overcome the "cognitive dissonance" go against those principles and act as they did....

so...understand WHY?

if you went back in time and asked one "are you wrong to do this ...then they would say no...and beleive it

so by THEIR standards no they were NOT wrong

only by ours....and on  multiple counts.....

if history is only hindsight then learning from history is pointless, since w elearn the wrong lesson.

So if they went against the principles of the declaration, they then wrongly denied these American citiens their equal and human rights
So for the time it was also wrong, no matter how badly you have tried to dress this up.

All it takes is one for the time to be against such a pratice and we certainly have someone


http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2011/12/the_lone_politician_who_stood_against_japanese_internment.html


Your argument has just sunk i am afraid to say

Shady wrote:

Didge wrote:


Yet another inane drivel reply which adds nothing to the debate.

Look if you cannot engage in the debate I shall be as polite as possible

Then fuck off

You're hardly worth replying to but I will do if it makes you feel good.

I can't engage in this debate because there is no debate on your part as all you are doing is spouting shit.

There,do you feel fulfilled because I replied to you?

It would be nice if all of your posts in this thread were deleted then I could actually involve myself in a decent subject.

Blah blah blah

You are pig shit ignorant and just trying to derail the thread

Now fuck off you idiot, because you are not fooling anyone

You are just a complete twat

So you have the opportunity to debate or like I say crawl away you pathetic child

Didge wrote:

Shady wrote:

You're hardly worth replying to but I will do if it makes you feel good.

I can't engage in this debate because there is no debate on your part as all you are doing is spouting shit.

There,do you feel fulfilled because I replied to you?

It would be nice if all of your posts in this thread were deleted then I could actually involve myself in a decent subject.

Blah blah blah

You are pig shit ignorant and just trying to derail the thread

Now fuck off you idiot, because you are not fooling anyone

You are just a complete twat

So you have the opportunity to debate or like I say crawl away you pathetic child

It's a pity,because YOU started a good thread but ruined it by calling everyone inane or racist etc & then chasing yourself around in circles.

But you do that in every single thread you start......good subject.......starts off well.......then you resort to your usual idiocy of name calling.

Please butt out of this thread & then we'll debate it properly.

Go on......fuck off.

Shady wrote:

Didge wrote:


Blah blah blah

You are pig shit ignorant and just trying to derail the thread

Now fuck off you idiot, because you are not fooling anyone

You are just a complete twat

So you have the opportunity to debate or like I say crawl away you pathetic child

It's a pity,because YOU started a good thread but ruined it by calling everyone inane or racist etc & then chasing yourself around in circles.

But you do that in every single thread you start......good subject.......starts off well.......then you resort to your usual idiocy of name calling.

Please butt out of this thread & then we'll debate it properly.

Go on......fuck off.

I do not give a shit what you think you pathetic ignorant child.

All you do is come onto threads and try and ruin them with your pathetic inane nonsense.

Everyone was debating until the idiotic child shady came along

So fuck off you litte brat

Didge wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:


and your point is.......

of course they went against their principleslike the blacks the japanese were "untermensch" in the eyes of a huge % of the population, and that %age was no doubt swelled by propaganda.

so the point is, in spite of all law to the contrary, in spite of the declaration of independance AND the lofty values therein espoused, the americans of THAT TIME were able to overcome the "cognitive dissonance" go against those principles and act as they did....

so...understand WHY?

if you went back in time and asked one "are you wrong to do this ...then they would say no...and beleive it

so by THEIR standards no they were NOT wrong

only by ours....and on  multiple counts.....

if history is only hindsight then learning from history is pointless, since w elearn the wrong lesson.

So if they went against the principles of the declaration, they then wrongly denied these American citiens their equal and human rights
So for the time it was also wrong, no matter how badly you have tried to dress this up.

All it takes is one for the time to be against such a pratice and we certainly have someone


http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2011/12/the_lone_politician_who_stood_against_japanese_internment.html


Your argument has just sunk i am afraid to say

so the view of ONE speaks for all does it??

where does that leave your argument ...(that you are so fond of )

such as your answer to raggs quote

"is that your bases to make all culpable?
Seriously?
There were many Germans spies captured in the US, it did not make them intern all American Germans"


if the actions of one does not make all culpable then the disagreement of one does not invalidate the view of many....

(love it when your own argument bites you in the ass)

Lord Foul wrote:

Didge wrote:


So if they went against the principles of the declaration, they then wrongly denied these American citiens their equal and human rights
So for the time it was also wrong, no matter how badly you have tried to dress this up.

All it takes is one for the time to be against such a pratice and we certainly have someone


http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2011/12/the_lone_politician_who_stood_against_japanese_internment.html


Your argument has just sunk i am afraid to say

so the view of ONE speaks for all does it??

where does that leave your argument ...(that you are so fond of )  

such as your answer to raggs quote

     "is that your bases to make all culpable?
Seriously?
There were many Germans spies captured in the US, it did not make them intern all American Germans"


if the actions of one does not make all culpable then the disagreement of one does not invalidate the view of many....

(love it when your own argument bites you in the ass)

The point is a congresman stood against this policy because he knew it was racist.
You said it was alright for the time but he certainly did not treat them that way.

Unlike other politicians of the time, Colorado Governor  Ralph L. Carr welcomed the Japanese-American internees into his state, embracing  them as citizens who deserved dignified and just treatment during their incarceration.  Governor Carr served from 1939-1943, but his relatively short tenure produced heaps of documents that testify to his compassion for and genuine interest in the Japanese families conscripted to his state.

Lord Foul wrote:

Didge wrote:


So if they went against the principles of the declaration, they then wrongly denied these American citiens their equal and human rights
So for the time it was also wrong, no matter how badly you have tried to dress this up.

All it takes is one for the time to be against such a pratice and we certainly have someone


http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2011/12/the_lone_politician_who_stood_against_japanese_internment.html


Your argument has just sunk i am afraid to say

so the view of ONE speaks for all does it??

where does that leave your argument ...(that you are so fond of )  

such as your answer to raggs quote

     "is that your bases to make all culpable?
Seriously?
There were many Germans spies captured in the US, it did not make them intern all American Germans"


if the actions of one does not make all culpable then the disagreement of one does not invalidate the view of many....

(love it when your own argument bites you in the ass)

HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR!!

Nice one Lord Foul.

no Matter what you argue the simple fact is that you cannot properly subject the actions of history to the values of the present...if you do you can only understand them in the context of TODAY and not in the context of when they actually occured


and that my dear boy is a valid and accepted principle of historians today....

and if you do so you actually MISS the real horrors of what went on...


if you view this a purely a piece of american racist shit

you miss the quite scary fact that in some ways the americans were in danger of attaining the same mental processes as the nazis...........

Shady wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

so the view of ONE speaks for all does it??

where does that leave your argument ...(that you are so fond of )  

such as your answer to raggs quote

     "is that your bases to make all culpable?
Seriously?
There were many Germans spies captured in the US, it did not make them intern all American Germans"


if the actions of one does not make all culpable then the disagreement of one does not invalidate the view of many....

(love it when your own argument bites you in the ass)

HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR!!

Nice one Lord Foul.

Har Har Har Hard on

Typical immature reply from the forum Jester lol