Interaction with Israel has moderated Jerusalem Arabs, expert says

Palestinians living in city concede Jewish right to land, support 2-state formula, far more than their West Bank and Gaza peers:

Arab residents of Jerusalem are significantly more conciliatory to Israel than their counterparts in the West Bank and Gaza, a recent poll has found, leading its author to conclude that interaction with Israeli society has a dramatic moderating effect. A Washington Institute poll conducted in June this year among 1,500 Palestinians in Gaza, the West Bank and Jerusalem was widely cited in the media for its findings on the question of citizenship: 52 percent of Jerusalem’s 300,000 Arabs would opt for Israeli citizenship “with equal rights” rather than Palestinian citizenship in a future two-state scenario. In the West Bank, a mere 4 percent said they’d prefer Israeli citizenship to Palestinian, and 12 percent in Gaza. Israel extended its sovereignty to East Jerusalem following its capture from Jordan in the 1967 Six Day War. Jerusalem’s Arab residents automatically received residency status granting them Israeli health insurance, social security, and the right to vote in municipal elections, though less than ten percent have applied for full Israeli citizenship.


http://www.timesofisrael.com/interaction-with-israel-has-moderated-jerusalem-arabs-expert-says/

1.  What a lot of complete Hasbara
2.  Why is this in the Africa section
3.  Israel are using terror tactics against Palestinians in East Jerusalem that they occupy illegally.

Israel 'minimising Palestinian presence' in Jerusalem

The increase in forced evictions is part of Israeli policy to push Palestinians out of Jerusalem, rights groups say.

Jerusalem - Raafat Sub Laban, 27, is a legal researcher who was born and raised in the Muslim Quarter of Jerusalem's historical Old City. Although his grandparents moved into their home more than six decades ago and passed it on to his mother, the Sub Laban family is now facing an eviction order to make way for Israeli settlers.
Standing outside an Israeli court in East Jerusalem, Raafat explained that his family "has nowhere else to go", adding that his parents, siblings and their children all live in the house. "There are nine of us, including two children aged three and nine years old," Raafat told Al Jazeera. "Where are we supposed to go? This is our home."
In 1953, the Sub Laban family rented the home from the Jordanian government, which controlled East Jerusalem and the rest of the West Bank until Israel occupied those territories during the 1967 war.
Through the Israeli government's Custodian General of Absentee Property, a body that manages homes and lands confiscated by Israel, the family was informed that ownership of the homes was transferred to Israeli settlers who later claimed it had been registered as hekdesh, or Jewish religious property, prior to 1948.

---

RELATED: Palestinians in Israel strike over home demolitions

---

Raafat and his family suspect that Ateret Cohanim, a right-wing nonprofit organisation that seeks to replace Palestinian residents of the city with Jewish-Israeli settlers, is involved in the efforts to take over their home. Daniel Lurie, executive director of Ateret Cohanim, denied the organisation's involvement. "Ateret Cohanim has no connection to the case in question," Lurie told Al Jazeera by email.
More than 300,000 Palestinians live in occupied East Jerusalem. Israel claims to have annexed the territory
in 1980, but that move is not recognised by the international community. More than half a million Israelis live in Jewish-only colonies scattered across the West Bank, including East Jerusalem.
Rights groups say the uptick in forced evictions, arrests, and home demolitions is part of a broader web of Israeli policies designed to push Palestinians out of Jerusalem. 
"Increased numbers of arrests and forced evictions prove that the [Israeli] government remains committed to minimising the city's indigenous Palestinian population and expanding illegal Israeli presence," Rima Awad, a member of the Jerusalemites Campaign, a group that advocates for Palestinian rights in the city, told Al Jazeera.
The Sub Laban family was secure in their home until last year, when an Israeli court stripped them of their status as protected tenants on the grounds that they hadn't been consistently living in the home and had allegedly neglected it.
The settlers have also argued for the Sub Lubans' eviction by evoking an Israeli law permitting Jews to make claim to Palestinian property that was registered under Jewish ownership before Israel's establishment. Passed in 1970 and deemed the East Jerusalem Law, it allows owners to evict residents who have not consistently lived on the premises or paid rent.
Settlers have knocked on their door twice this year and tried to take over the property, first in February and again in March. "The first time activists and friends blocked them from entering the home," Raafat recalled. "The second time our lawyer was able to obtain a temporary injunction to prevent the evacuation from taking place."
"Our home is just one of 15 in East Jerusalem presently facing evacuation for Jewish settlers to move in," Raafat added. Israeli authorities also regularly demolish Palestinian homes across East Jerusalem and the rest of the West Bank.

---

RELATED: Jerusalem simmering over 'Judaisation' plans

---

Noura Sub Laban, Raafat's mother, appealed the eviction order in an Israeli court on May 31. Standing in front of the judges, her lawyer, Mohammed Dahleh, argued on her behalf. "The core evidence purporting that [Sub Laban family] wasn't living in the house is weak," he said, pointing out that the family has paid the house's telephone, electricity and water bills consistently. "The court should reverse its decision to allow the evacuation."
The following day, on June 1, the Sub Laban family received a letter from Israel's national insurance agency informing them that they have not been considered full-time residents of Jerusalem since August 2013.
Because Palestinian Jerusalemites hold Israeli-issued residency permits to live in the city, they faced expulsion to the West Bank or elsewhere if their residency permits are revoked.
Since Israel's occupation of East Jerusalem began in 1967, it has revoked the residency of more than 14,000 Palestinian residents, 107 of which were rescinded in 2014 alone, according to the Israeli rights group HaMoked. 
Along with Elad, another Israeli settler group, Ateret Cohanim filed a lawsuit earlier this month demanding the eviction of another Palestinian family in the Silwan neighbourhood of East Jerusalem. Those groups claim the Rajabi family is living in a building that was purchased by a Jewish religious trust 134 years ago.  
Although he declined to comment on the pending eviction of the Rajabi family, Ateret Cohanim's Daniel Luria
said: "Any Jew, as an integral part of the only indigenous people of this Land, have the right to purchase, and live in peace anywhere, in his ancestral homeland, especially in the heart of Israel - Jerusalem."
Back in October 2014, Ateret Cohanim assisted nine Jewish settler families to take over two buildings in Silwan. With the protection of security guards provided by Elad, the settlers forcibly took over the buildings and thereby doubled the settler population in the neighbourhood, according to Israeli media reports.
On May 21, Israeli bulldozers entered Silwan and razed three Palestinian-owned commercial buildings and a home before sunrise, under the pretext that they were constructed without permits from the Israeli municipality in Jerusalem. Less than a week later, another Palestinian apartment complex was demolished in Silwan.
According to a statement subsequently released by the Wadi Hilweh Information Center-Silwan, some 80 families totalling 300 individuals are currently at risk of eviction in the neighbourhood.
"Silwan is a microcosm of growing trends visible throughout East Jerusalem," said Awad of the Jerusalemites Campaign, alluding to the ostensible increase in home demolitions and cases of settlers forcibly taking over property.
Back in the Jerusalem court, Raafat Sub Laban says his family is not optimistic about the future. "Of course, we do not expect justice from any Israeli court," he remarked, "but we are hoping for the best."


http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/06/israel-minimising-palestinian-presence-jerusalem-150601070235169.html

June 2015 and from an islamic hate paper

Where the source of mine was the washington post

So Stassi how do you explain how countless Arabs have applied for israeli citizenship then?

In your own time

Al Jaz is one of the most respected news media on line now, or can't you keep up with the 21 Century?

Of course, David Frost worked for a hate group lol

Really is that why it is in a law suit for then for bias stassi and being sued for antisemitism and sexism?

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/former-al-jazeera-exec-files-multi-million-dollar-lawsuit-against-channel-1201517575/

lol you really are one hell of an idiot

In part it reflects a loss of hope that an independent Palestinian state will ever emerge. But it also reflects a hard-headed pragmatism - an acknowledgement that having Israeli citizenship will make it easier to get or change jobs, buy or move house, travel abroad and receive access to services.

Israeli officials are reluctant to confirm figures, but data obtained by the Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies indicates a jump over the past decade, rising from 114 applications in 2003 to between 800 and 1,000 a year now, around half of which are successful. On top of that, hundreds have made inquiries before the formal application process begins.

Interior Ministry figures obtained by Reuters show there were 1,434 applications in 2012-13, of which 189 were approved, 1,061 are still being processed and 169 were rejected. The remainder are in limbo.

Palestinians who have applied do not like to talk about it. The loyalty oath is not an easy thing for them to sign up to and becoming a naturalized Israeli - joining the enemy - is taboo.

"It felt bad, really bad," said a 46-year-old Palestinian teacher who took the oath a year ago. Despite her reservations, she knew it was right for stability and career prospects.

"We just want to live our lives," she said. "At the end of the day, politics gets you nowhere."

DEEPER ROOTS

For many East Jerusalemites, part of the fear is that Israel could revoke their blue ID at any time since retaining it depends on maintaining a "center of life" in Jerusalem. Spend too much time abroad or working elsewhere and the ID could go. That is not the case when it comes to citizenship.

"I wanted to strengthen myself in Jerusalem," said the teacher, explaining her reasoning. "It's my homeland. I was born here, I live here and I want to stay here."

Others echoed that sense of a transition that on the one hand feels like a renunciation, but on the other strengthens their ability to keep firm roots in Jerusalem.

"It felt really wrong, I was a bit ashamed because it feels like you're giving up your identity," said a 26-year-old Palestinian ballet dancer, who began the application in June.

"But if I get an Israeli passport I won't be so weak, especially living in East Jerusalem - it's so easy for us to get kicked out."



http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/03/us-israel-palestinians-jerusalem-insight-idUSKCN0Q81HP20150803



Nowt to do with wanting to be Israeli, everything to do with trying to keep their homes and their jobs.   Manipulated into it oh Dodgy one.

What a hilarious speculative article not backed up ny hardly any evidence and just hearsay

So funny these left wing antisemtics, they really are desperate to the core

Yeah the reasons nazi scum is very simple, they want equality which they do not have under fatah, Its a no brainer Stassi, but then as seen you support Hamas and Fatah both at odds with the equality of people

Oh goody goody, equal rights!  Equal righs would mean Palestinian's would have the right of return. That's what that would mean.  Including from all over the world.  Same as Jews then lol

Cuchulain wrote:Yeah the reasons nazi scum is very simple, they want equality which they do not have under fatah, Its a no brainer Stassi, but then as seen you support Hamas and Fatah both at odds with the equality of people

I think you grossly insult those murderd in the holocaust every time you denigrate Sassy and call her a Nazi, which she is clearly not.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:Yeah the reasons nazi scum is very simple, they want equality which they do not have under fatah, Its a no brainer Stassi, but then as seen you support Hamas and Fatah both at odds with the equality of people

I think you grossly insult those murderd in the holocaust every time you denigrate Sassy and call her a Nazi, which she is clearly not.

I think you are a complete dick, and an insult to the human race, but hey ho.
She is Nazi scum there is no two ways about it, she backs Hamas, who are not occupied claiming they are justified to attack Israel under the premise of freedom fighters under occupation.  Hamas have vowed to wipe out Israel and are terrorist scum, and she backs them. She posts up Maps with the intent to argue and claim Israel should not exist which are fabricated maps at that. The list is endless that she does not believe in the right of Israel to exist, she is thus Nazi scum.

u-turn alert

smelly-bandit wrote:u-turn alert

Have you Dutchman, tell me all about it?
Pull up a chair and do not be shy

not me walter

you

smelly-bandit wrote:not me walter

you

How?
That I support the right of the Palestinians and Israelis to self determination?
That I wish for peace between both?
I just see past the lies of those who back the BDS, they want the destruction of Israel and have no wish for peace. I also defend against fabrications and lies made against Israel.
So you tell me, how is that a U-turn?
I still think you are a far right idiot that makes the conflict worse with the absurd and appalling rhetoric you spout

Cuchulain wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:not me walter

you

How?
That I support the right of the Palestinians and Israelis to self determination?
That I wish for peace between both?
I just see past the lies of those who back the BDS, they want the destruction of Israel and have no wish for peace. I also defend against fabrications and lies made against Israel.
So you tell me, how is that a U-turn?
I still think you are a far right idiot that makes the conflict worse with the absurd and appalling rhetoric you spout

No Didge

What you do is call anyone who supports the right of Palestinians Anti Semitists!

There can NEVER be a 2 state solution cant you see that?

How many times are we going to go over this when the Israelis only want to murder them.

You don't bother reading any source relating to the destruction of the native people all you do is put your head in the sand and pretend nothing is happening.

come now walter

you sound as dedicated to israel as i am and have always been

you used to sing a very different tune,dont you remember??

always against isreal, you and sassy used to be a tag team

now youre arguing different sides??

either she has changed her tune or you have

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm nope, not her, she is still as antisemitic as ever, so it has to be you

no shame it in mind, i always say that everyday is a learning day, i taught you several lessons about islam back on sky forums (remember your apology because i still do), if youve learned the truth about israel from our discussions then its 1 to the good and no argument from me, i say

personal growth walter its good

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


How?
That I support the right of the Palestinians and Israelis to self determination?
That I wish for peace between both?
I just see past the lies of those who back the BDS, they want the destruction of Israel and have no wish for peace. I also defend against fabrications and lies made against Israel.
So you tell me, how is that a U-turn?
I still think you are a far right idiot that makes the conflict worse with the absurd and appalling rhetoric you spout

No Didge

What you do is call anyone who supports the right of Palestinians Anti Semitism!

There can NEVER be a 2 state solution cant you see that?

How many times are we going to go over this when the Israelis only want to murder them.

You don't bother reading any source relating to the destruction of the native people all you do is put your head in the sand and pretend nothing is happening.

terrorists deserve no rights mama.

why do you continue to support the terrorist state of gaza??

smelly-bandit wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

No Didge

What you do is call anyone who supports the right of Palestinians Anti Semitism!

There can NEVER be a 2 state solution cant you see that?

How many times are we going to go over this when the Israelis only want to murder them.

You don't bother reading any source relating to the destruction of the native people all you do is put your head in the sand and pretend nothing is happening.

terrorists deserve no rights mama.

why do you continue to support the terrorist state of gaza??

Terrorists deserve no rights

Indeed Smelly. So why do you support Israel? They terrorise Palestinians on a daily basis!

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


How?
That I support the right of the Palestinians and Israelis to self determination?
That I wish for peace between both?
I just see past the lies of those who back the BDS, they want the destruction of Israel and have no wish for peace. I also defend against fabrications and lies made against Israel.
So you tell me, how is that a U-turn?
I still think you are a far right idiot that makes the conflict worse with the absurd and appalling rhetoric you spout

No Didge

What you do is call anyone who supports the right of Palestinians Anti Semitism!

There can NEVER be a 2 state solution cant you see that?

How many times are we going to go over this when the Israelis only want to murder them.

You don't bother reading any source relating to the destruction of the native people all you do is put your head in the sand and pretend nothing is happening.

There you go antisemitism, denying a people a right to self determination.

That is racism plain and simple, they have a right to a nation just as the Palestinians do.

I know history better than you will ever hope to achieve in 100 life times Sexy.

Demographics constantly change around the world and her we have a comparrison to Germany, where it was the aggressor in world war 1 and lost. The Palestinians and Arab nations were the aggressors in 1948 and lost. Hundres of thousand of palestinians were displaced and hundreds of thousands of Jews were displaced Germany lost territory and the palestinians lost the chance to have a nation. Germany again was aggressive under Hitler as they never accepted defeat, just as the Arabs were later again against Israel. Both Germany and the Arabs lost. The germans had their country shrink and lose lands and 16 million Germans were made refugees who have since been found homes and citizens. The Arabs lost also again but resolution 242 was created to create borders for the nations. Now Germany has since moved on from its past wrongs. Both Hamas and Fath have not even though twice through the PLO they have had a chance to form a nation. They also keep countless refugees in limbo, to ensure the conflict continues giving false hope when the demographics have changed. Israel has no right to build any settlements, and theey should withdraw from them. The most important point is the Arabs have never been able to move on and have no wish to as they do not accept the right of Israel to exist. They continue the conflict with their hate towards Israel. Both sides have daft views on religious righhts to the lands all wrong as religions are bollocks. Both have to accept they are there now to live and they both have a right to a nation. At every turn though the Arabs wish to continue this conflict, one which they started. Israel has a right to exist and to deny that is racism, plain and simple

Do not even dare to lecture me on racism

smelly-bandit wrote:come now walter

you sound as dedicated to israel as i am and have always been

you used to sing a very different tune,dont you remember??

always against isreal, you and sassy used to be a tag team

now youre arguing different sides??

either she has changed her tune or you have

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm nope, not her, she is still as antisemitic as ever, so it has to be you

no shame it in mind, i always say that everyday is a learning day, i taught you several lessons about islam back on sky forums (remember your apology because i still do), if youve learned the truth about israel from our discussions then its 1 to the good and no argument from me, i say

personal growth walter its good


 

I have never been against Israel having the right to a nation.
I have been against your far right hatred of Muslims
You have taught me nothing on the matter only that you are on a par with Israeli extremists, who I am against also. So we stand apart in our views, we may share views to protect Israel but differ on Palestine.
Stassi has become even more vile in her views of hate towards Israel, its disgusting, where I do not share such hateful views of the Palestinians. I think hamas are scum and Fatah are a joke and do nothing for the people of Palestine. They ensure a conflict continues just as the extremist Israelis do.
So we are miles apart on our views, I am just more vocal defending Israel from hate

Cuchulain wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

No Didge

What you do is call anyone who supports the right of Palestinians Anti Semitism!

There can NEVER be a 2 state solution cant you see that?

How many times are we going to go over this when the Israelis only want to murder them.

You don't bother reading any source relating to the destruction of the native people all you do is put your head in the sand and pretend nothing is happening.

There you go antisemitism, denying a people a right to self determination.

That is racism plain and simple, they have a right to a nation just as the Palestinians do.

I know history better than you will ever hope to achieve in 100 life times Sexy.

Demographics constantly change around the world and her we have a comparrison to Germany, where it was the aggressor in world war 1 and lost. The Palestinians and Arab nations were the aggressors in 1948 and lost. Hundres of thousand of palestinians were displaced and hundreds of thousands of Jews were displaced Germany lost territory and the palestinians lost the chance to have a nation. Germany again was aggressive under Hitler as they never accepted defeat, just as the Arabs were later again against Israel. Both Germany and the Arabs lost. The germans had their country shrink and lose lands and 16 million Germans were made refugees who have since been found homes and citizens. The Arabs lost also again but resolution 242 was created to create borders for the nations. Now Germany has since moved on from its past wrongs. Both Hamas and Fath have not even though twice through the PLO they have had a chance to form a nation. They also keep countless refugees in limbo, to ensure the conflict continues giving false hope when the demographics have changed. Israel has no right to build any settlements, and theey should withdraw from them. The most important point is the Arabs have never been able to move on and have no wish to as they do not accept the right of Israel to exist. They continue the conflict with their hate towards Israel. Both sides have daft views on religious righhts to the lands all wrong as religions are bollocks. Both have to accept they are there now to live and they both have a right to a nation. At every turn though the Arabs wish to continue this conflict, one which they started. Israel has a right to exist and to deny that is racism, plain and simple

Do not even dare to lecture me on racism

There you go being rude!

Im not lecturing you only stating the way you come across on this subject.

Im not as arrogant as you Didge so I wont be 'debating' this conflict further. You think you know everything, that's the problem.

The above enlarged bit shows your views are no different to Smelly B's. He really did rub on you.

Do you know what is ridiculous about these views on the conflict is people fail to see history as it happens the same in many areas of the globe. Like I say when Germany and Austro-Hungary lost the first World War, new nations were born, providing self determination to many groups of people. The Poles, the Czecks, Latvians etc. Should they have not have been created because they were a minority under both the Germans and Austro-Hungarians, with also some part of former Russia? You have the same in the Ottoman Empire, where new nations were formed to create self determination for groups of people. Jordanians, Saudi's, Iraqi's etc, later Israel and what would have been Palestine. Yet this is the only place in the world where people accept the right of other minroity groups within a larger natin to form their own nations, except Israel. Only Israel do you find people be utterly hypocritical and attempt to deny them a right to a nation and based on what? Where the Ottomans once rules these lands?

Its all bollocks and when you look at how many nations have been born and have found self determination, why is it some wish only to deny Israel? Its antisemitism plain and simple because of all the nations born since the 20th century, how many have these same people claimed they have no right to self determination?

None by any chance, so those saying only a one state solution is the best option clearly are against self determination for people and stand against every new nation that has been created.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

There you go antisemitism, denying a people a right to self determination.

That is racism plain and simple, they have a right to a nation just as the Palestinians do.

I know history better than you will ever hope to achieve in 100 life times Sexy.

Demographics constantly change around the world and her we have a comparrison to Germany, where it was the aggressor in world war 1 and lost. The Palestinians and Arab nations were the aggressors in 1948 and lost. Hundres of thousand of palestinians were displaced and hundreds of thousands of Jews were displaced Germany lost territory and the palestinians lost the chance to have a nation. Germany again was aggressive under Hitler as they never accepted defeat, just as the Arabs were later again against Israel. Both Germany and the Arabs lost. The germans had their country shrink and lose lands and 16 million Germans were made refugees who have since been found homes and citizens. The Arabs lost also again but resolution 242 was created to create borders for the nations. Now Germany has since moved on from its past wrongs. Both Hamas and Fath have not even though twice through the PLO they have had a chance to form a nation. They also keep countless refugees in limbo, to ensure the conflict continues giving false hope when the demographics have changed. Israel has no right to build any settlements, and theey should withdraw from them. The most important point is the Arabs have never been able to move on and have no wish to as they do not accept the right of Israel to exist. They continue the conflict with their hate towards Israel. Both sides have daft views on religious righhts to the lands all wrong as religions are bollocks. Both have to accept they are there now to live and they both have a right to a nation. At every turn though the Arabs wish to continue this conflict, one which they started. Israel has a right to exist and to deny that is racism, plain and simple

Do not even dare to lecture me on racism

There you go being rude!

Im not lecturing you only stating the way you come across on this subject.

Im not as arrogant as you Didge so I wont be 'debating' this conflict further. You think you know everything, that's the problem.

The above enlarged bit shows your views are no different to Smelly B's. He really did rub on you.

Really, when my views are very different to his.
Sorry but you come out with nonsense.
Why is it Sexy you shout about Palestine?
Its the religious connection nothing else.
I am an athiest, so my reasons is to protect the self determination of both the Palestinians and Israelis.
The Arabs do wish to continue the conflict. Hamas has a charter which vows to wipe out Israel. They glorify terrorists suicide bombers, they do not accept the right of Israel to exist. Refugees from other conflicts have been given citizenship except the palestinians in neighboruing countries? Why? So they continue to suffer when they could be made citizens in these countries just as other refugees have before. They are used as puppets to further a conflict.
That is wrong. Do not get me wrong Israel does plenty wrong and extremists there also continue the conflict as well as the settlements do.

So why is it Sexy you are not calling for greater Germany to be returned?
Or Russia?
Or Austria-Hungary?
Or the Ottoman Empire?
They have lost lands, millions have lost their homed where they were there for generations, why are you not calling this to change back? I am glad people of different ethnic groups now have thier own nations and have now a right to govern themselves as a nation, do you think this is wrong?

I didn't realize the Germans were being ethnically cleansed! News to me Didge.

I didn't realize the Germans were being thrown out of their homes and land!

Seriously Didge listen to your self.

SEXY MAMA wrote:I didn't realize the Germans were being ethnically cleansed! News to me Didge.

I didn't realize the Germans were being thrown out of their homes and land!

Seriously Didge listen to your self.

Have you read World War 2 Sexy?
16 million were displaced at the end of this war,  where they had been there for generations.
This is 1945, 3 years before Israel was created.
They now live in what is the new boundaries of Germany.
German lost East Prussia to Poland, a huge landmass where it had been Germanic territory for centuries.
So yes 16 million were ethnically cleansed from former German territories.
So why is it Sexy you are not fighting for the return of these lands and for these people to return?
Should not Poland be disolved as a nation and its land returned to Germany and Russia?

So please tell me, why is it they have moved on with their lives and been given new homes?

Also how about the following:

Latvia, should this be absord again into Russia?
Lithuania, should this be absorbed back to Russia?
How about Estonia?
How about Ukraine?
Do you wish me to continue?
Do none of these nations have a right to self determination where they were once a minority under Russia?

Cuchulain wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:I didn't realize the Germans were being ethnically cleansed! News to me Didge.

I didn't realize the Germans were being thrown out of their homes and land!

Seriously Didge listen to your self.

Have you read World War 2 Sexy?
16 million were displaced at the end of this war,  where they had been there for generations.
This is 1945, 3 years before Israel was created.
They now live in what is the new boundaries of Germany.
German lost East Prussia to Poland, a huge landmass where it had been Germanic territory for centuries.
So yes 16 million were ethnically cleansed from former German territories.
So why is it Sexy you are not fighting for the return of these lands and for these people to return?
Should not Poland be disolved as a nation and its land returned to Germany and Russia?

So please tell me, why is it they have moved on with their lives and been given new homes?

Sigh.....

Im not talking about the past im referring to the conflicts taking place presently.

So you think its ok that the Israelis are taking over the Palestinians home and kicking them out. The Palestinians have no where to go but that's fine by you.

It was Palestine that welcomed the displaced Zionists with open arms if you read history correctly. Look what happened to that eh!

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

Have you read World War 2 Sexy?
16 million were displaced at the end of this war,  where they had been there for generations.
This is 1945, 3 years before Israel was created.
They now live in what is the new boundaries of Germany.
German lost East Prussia to Poland, a huge landmass where it had been Germanic territory for centuries.
So yes 16 million were ethnically cleansed from former German territories.
So why is it Sexy you are not fighting for the return of these lands and for these people to return?
Should not Poland be disolved as a nation and its land returned to Germany and Russia?

So please tell me, why is it they have moved on with their lives and been given new homes?

Sigh.....

Im not talking about the past im referring to the conflicts taking place presently.

So you think its ok that the Israelis are taking over the Palestinians home and kicking them out. The Palestinians have no where to go but that's fine by you.

It was Palestine that welcomed the displaced Zionists with open arms if you read history correctly. Look what happened to that eh!

You are talking about the past, because the Palestinians have never had a nation. The people were under the rule of the Ottoman Empire and then under the British. They had a chance to a nation, they instead with other Arab nations chose to not except Israel and went to war and lost. Hundreds of thousand of palestinians were displaced. 800.000 Jews were displaced from Muslim countries and Jerusalem by the Jordanians. Jordan controlled the West Bank and Gaza under Eygpt. Which is odd because in 1964 the PLO charter never called for the return of these lands, they were happy to be ruled by the occupying powers of Jordan and Eygpt. They only called for israel to be made Palestine. yet now they call for the West Bank or Gaza to be Palestine but not then when occupied, so what has changed? Was it okay to be occupied if the country was Muslim majority? Seems to be the case do you not think? Clearly this is very much about Jews being in control of territory, which the Palestinians are at odds with and thus we need to ask why? When they are happy to be occupied by other Muslim majority nations? So at every turn we see where the problem is Sexy because if you are not talking about the past you should thus accept Israel to exist.

Now are you going to answer my questions?
As its very important that you do to see if your views conflict.


Have you read World War 2 Sexy?
16 million were displaced at the end of this war,  where they had been there for generations.
This is 1945, 3 years before Israel was created.
They now live in what is the new boundaries of Germany.
German lost East Prussia to Poland, a huge landmass where it had been Germanic territory for centuries.
So yes 16 million were ethnically cleansed from former German territories.
So why is it Sexy you are not fighting for the return of these lands and for these people to return?
Should not Poland be disolved as a nation and its land returned to Germany and Russia?

So please tell me, why is it they have moved on with their lives and been given new homes?

Latvia, should this be absord again into Russia?
Lithuania, should this be absorbed back to Russia?
How about Estonia?
How about Ukraine?
Do you wish me to continue?
Do none of these nations have a right to self determination where they were once a minority under Russia?

SEXY MAMA wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

terrorists deserve no rights mama.

why do you continue to support the terrorist state of gaza??

Terrorists deserve no rights

Indeed Smelly. So why do you support Israel? They terrorise Palestinians on a daily basis!

thats a matter of perspective isnt it??

well walter thats a logical impossiblity

to share views on israel but differ on palestine

histroy is histroy and facts tell no lies

smelly-bandit wrote:well walter thats a logical impossiblity

to share views on israel but differ on palestine

histroy is histroy and facts tell no lies

Look I have just shown you how to show those that deny the distance of Israel, would by methodology deny the creation of all nations since the early 20th century. They would be hypocrites, completely contradicting or have to deny their existence also. You can use if you like, because it easily proves wrong any of the claims made by them. You have never thought of this because you lack historical knowledge.


Though I back a Palestinian nation also.
History is history and because I am so versed in history it is history which proves the BDS supporters very wrong.

I have things to do so if you have a point make one, but do you agree with my points made above or disagree. If the later let me know and make your reasons why.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:

Have you read World War 2 Sexy?
16 million were displaced at the end of this war,  where they had been there for generations.
This is 1945, 3 years before Israel was created.
They now live in what is the new boundaries of Germany.
German lost East Prussia to Poland, a huge landmass where it had been Germanic territory for centuries.
So yes 16 million were ethnically cleansed from former German territories.
So why is it Sexy you are not fighting for the return of these lands and for these people to return?
Should not Poland be disolved as a nation and its land returned to Germany and Russia?

So please tell me, why is it they have moved on with their lives and been given new homes?

Sigh.....

Im not talking about the past im referring to the conflicts taking place presently.

So you think its ok that the Israelis are taking over the Palestinians home and kicking them out. The Palestinians have no where to go but that's fine by you.

It was Palestine that welcomed the displaced Zionists with open arms if you read history correctly. Look what happened to that eh!

if its a question of land ownership then im afriad that you are on the losing end of that argument

and your history is way off. "palestinians" were settled in the areas of gaza and the west bank, both of which were annexed by egypt and jordan respectively, the land given over to the jews was barren arid uninhabited desert.

on a serious note mama, why was the british mandate of palestine, specifically israel, identified as the location for resettling the jews??

oh how is that possible walter

how can you support israel, and also support the people who are going balls out to wipe israel out??

smelly-bandit wrote:oh how is that possible walter

how can you support israel, and also support the people who are going balls out to wipe israel out??

Do all Palestinians want to wipe out Israel?
No
20 percent of Israeli's are ethnic Palestinians and they have never made any move to wipe them out, which makes your view absurd. Hamas wants to wipe them out as do Iran, which is why Hamas needs to be ousted for any chance of peace.
Look Dutchman, do I have to continually educate you?
So again what points do you disagree on I made above

all youre points

youre wrong on just about everything since your opinions are based on revisionist histroy

smelly-bandit wrote:all youre points

youre wrong on just about everything since your opinions are based on revisionist histroy

That is interesting and yet you cannot make a case and reason your points as to why.
Run along little one, seems you want to measure dicks and not engage in a debate.
Sums you up really Dutchman.
Let me know when you want to show why you believe they are revisionist, because I welcome the challenge.

So if you decide to actually reason and explain why, then I will pick this up later or tomorrow, as I have better things to do than exchange posts where you can only claim I am wrong.

Boring, step up and be counted or move or, your choice.

its all wrong walter

you have no real understanding of this conflict and the root cause behind it, your understanding of the conflict starts at 1948.

almost like you have no idea that the world existed before, in that you are the same as sassy

smelly-bandit wrote:its all wrong walter

you have no real understanding of this conflict and the root cause behind it, your understanding of the conflict starts at 1948.

almost like you have no idea that the world existed before, in that you are the same as sassy

 

Show me where I stated no problems existed existed before 1948?

Never did, which is why as per usual your reply was desperate to say the least. Where you said I was a revisionist, claiming all of my points were wrong and yet you have failed to show a single point was in error.

Funny that.

So you now want to debate the root cause which I never made claim to on my points.
What I rightly stated was that the Palestinians from the single point of Israels creation in 1948 is the pivotal moment of why the conflict still exists today and thousands have died. The Arab nations refusal to accept Israel as a nation. If they had recognize Israel, they would have a nation today. This single point is why there is still conflict today where at any point since 1948 the Palestinians through the PLO could have recognized Israel and had a Palestinian nation created.
They even spurned two offers to do so.

You want to debate the root cause, very happy to debate this also Dutchman.

So that really has to be the most weakest reply you have made to where you originally stated I was a revisionist failing to point out any historical errors.

Please tell me you have something better than this piss poor reply Dutchman.
I am on my way out, but deliberately waited to see what lame point you would make before I went.
What a surprise I was right lol

So I expect to see a comprehensive reply rebuking all my points as you have claimed they are in error.
Which is odd as if you do rebuke all my points, you thus clearly believe Sexy's argument to a one state solution.

Have a good evening Dutchman, you have two more attempts to rebuke all my points, showing why you claim all of it is revisionist.

so basically you think the entire world was made in 1948

thought you were supposed to be the worlds greatest historian??

Nothing rebuked by the Dutchman again.

He has one more try.

Good luck Dutchman

looks like a caught a coochyfish

Three strikes and the Dutchman is out lol

He failed to rebuke a single point or show any of my points was revisionist.

Same old Dutchman lol

Oh well I shall await if others wish to take up the challenge

Cheers Dutchman I give you 1 out 10

1 out of 10??

amazing score for what ive been doing