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About Us & RulesAnalysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
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Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:20 pm
The Labour leadership frontrunner has a singular talent for extending a warm welcome to anti-Semites and extremists. He invited “friends” from Hezbollah and Hamas, both proscribed terrorist organisations. Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah says of Jews: “If they all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide”. Hamas is committed by charter to “struggle against the Jews” until the “obliteration” of the State of Israel. He invited Raed Salah, leader of the Islamic Movement, to tea on the Commons terrace. Salah promotes the blood libel that Jews murder children for blood to bake in their matzah and claims that thousands of Jews stayed home from work at the World Trade Centre on 9/11, a key component of the conspiracy theory that Jews and not Islamic fundamentalists were behind the attacks. He invited Dyab Abou Jahjah and shared a platform with the Belgian radical. Abou Jahjah called the killing of British soldiers in Iraq “a victory” and the 9/11 terrorist atrocities “sweet revenge”. He says Europe has adopted "the cult of the Holocaust and Jew-worshiping its alternative religion”, and in response to the Danish Mohammed cartoons he called on Arabs to spray paint walls across Europe with "hoax gas-chambers built in Hollywood in 1946 with Steven Spielberg’s approval stamp, and Aids spreading fagots”. Elsewhere, his connections to Holocaust-denier Paul Eisen have been documented by the Jewish Chronicle. Corbyn claimed in an interview with Channel 4 News that he had no contact with Eisen in recent times but might have given money to his organisation some years ago. In fact, as JC political correspondent Marcus Dysch has revealed, Corbyn attended a 2013 event for Eisen's Deir Yassin Remembered group.
A JC poll finds 67% of British Jews “concerned” about the Islington North MP becoming Labour leader. The newspaper warns that Corbyn risks being perceived as "an enemy of Britain’s Jewish community” and has implored him to answer questions about his associations with anti-Semites and Holocaust deniers. This he has failed to do to any satisfaction. He cannot recall meeting Abou Jahjah, despite a picture of the two of them sitting side-by-side on a panel. He was unaware of Eisen's views at the time. He stresses that Salah "did not at any stage utter any antisemitic remarks to me". Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. How I wish that he were. How much easier it would make things. We could chalk all this up to the prejudices of one man and we could avoid the raw, awkward conversation we’re about to have. Because this isn’t about Jeremy Corbyn; he’s just a symptom and a symbol. The Left, and not just the fringes, has an anti-Semitism problem. Contrary to left-wing mythology, anti-Jewish prejudice has never been the exclusive preserve of aristocratic snobs or skinhead fantasists. "The Jew is the enemy of the human race," declared Proudhon. "One must send this race back to Asia or exterminate it." Bakunin labelled Jews "bloodsucking people" while Orwell, self-consciously anti-Semitic, even obsessed over the excessive number of Jews sheltering in London's Underground during World War II. (No matter what the Jews do to protect themselves, it's always disproportionate.) Marx, the grandson of a rabbi, essayed: ”Once society has succeeded in abolishing the empirical essence of Judaism – huckstering and its preconditions – the Jew will have become impossible”.
The contemporary Left, in most cases, would recognise these statements as irrational prejudice. But what if we substituted "Zionist" for "Jew", what would happen then? How many would object to "Zionists" being termed enemies of the human race? How many would be glad to see the "Zionist" become impossible? Anti-Zionism has removed much of the need for classical anti-Semitism by recycling the old superstitions as a political critique of the State of Israel. Why risk the ridicule that comes with quoting The Protocols of the Elders of Zion when you can cite The Israel Lobby and win eager nods from academics and commentators? Why deny the Holocaust when you can throw it back in the Jews' faces by fictionalising Gaza as a concentration camp? Why hurl rocks at a Jew in the street when you can hurl endless vexatious UN resolutions at Israel?
Every pathology of the anti-Semite can be visited upon the Jewish state in the flimsy guise of "anti-imperialism" or "human rights". It's all okay because it's "Zionism" you're against and that's not the same thing as Jews and what about Jews who are anti-Zionist. The hallmark of a bigot is seizing on dissonant voices within a minority community and using them to delegitimise the mainstream of that community. The exception becomes the rule and those whose only connection to Jewish communal life is signing onto letters to the Guardian denouncing Israel become more Jewish than everyone else.
It shouldn't have to be said but since stupidity is nearing pandemic levels these days I'll say it all the same. There is nothing anti-Semitic about criticising Benjamin Netanyahu, the Likud-led government, or the policies of the State of Israel. There is nothing anti-Semitic about sympathising with the plight of the Palestinians (though it might be nice to recognise their culpability in the conflict too). There is nothing anti-Semitic about lacerating Israel for walls and checkpoints and bombs (though do address your alternative strategies to Beit Aghion, 9 Smolenskin Street, Jerusalem, Israel.) The Left’s unhinged antipathy towards the State of Israel has let loose ugly sentiments wholly unmoored from such legitimate criticisms. Israel is execrated as uniquely malignant and its enemies held up as plucky freedom-fighters or victim-idols. Corbyn and his like sup with Hamas and Hezbollah, they say, because we must talk to all sides to resolve the conflict, even the extreme and unpleasant. It would never occur to them to invite representatives of the Jewish Defence League to Parliament or to count Baruch Marzel or Michael Ben-Ari as “friends”. Why don’t the policies of the Chinese government in Tibet or against the Uighurs in Xinjiang inspire comparable protests and boycotts? Why do none of our cultural warriors demand the Edinburgh Festival kick out Russian-sponsored acts over Chechnya or Crimea? Why is produce from Iran or Pakistan never flung upon the floors of the nation’s supermarkets in solidarity with Muslim gays and women? Why is Deir Yassin remembered but not Safed or Hebron or the Hadassah convoy?
The problem goes deeper than asymmetry. For too many on the Left, Jewish suffering does not touch them the way Muslim suffering or gay suffering or black suffering touches them. Scrutiny of Corbyn's associations elicits cries of "smear" or just a collective shrug of the shoulders. It was always going to. We lack a language to talk about anti-Semitism because too many on the Left don't consider it a serious problem and couldn't recognise it as readily as racism, misogyny or homophobia anyway. When Labour MP Paul Flynn challenged the appointment of Britain’s first Jewish ambassador to Israel, demanding instead “someone with roots in the UK” who “can’t be accused of having Jewish loyalty”, there was little more than a few murmurs. The Liberal Democrats looked the other way when their former peer Jenny Tonge urged an inquiry into whether Israeli medics helping earthquake victims in Haiti had actually gone there to harvest their organs. That party also failed to expel ex-MP David Ward, who accused “the Jews” of “inflicting atrocities on Palestinians”. And who would come forward to cast the first stone? The Independent, which once published a cartoon of Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon eating a Palestinian baby? The Guardian, which marked Holocaust Memorial Day 2012 with an expose on public money going to security for Jewish schools? How about the New Statesman, publisher of a notorious cover story on the supposed “kosher conspiracy” influencing Britain?
Those who are questioning Jeremy Corbyn's associations are dismissed as "extreme Zionists" and yet I struggle to imagine critics of a politician's links to white supremacists being shouted down as "black nationalists". The Left gets racism; it doesn't get anti-Semitism. It's forever on Cable Street battling a long-gone menace while around the corner thousands march and chant "from the river to the sea". Ruth Wisse defines anti-Semitism as "the organisation of politics against the Jews" and says it owes more to political ideology than clerical prejudice. Against the intolerable opening-up of political institutions, social structures and markets brought about by liberalism, anti-Semites offer the Jew as the symbol of conniving and decadence, sinister motives and hidden agendas. It has worked nicely for Soviet communists and Arab nationalists, as for Islamist theocrats and European fascists. Israel has become the Jew of world affairs, affluent, successful, provocatively different. A rooted cosmopolitan that is to blame for being the only country in that region that is free and open and truly democratic. Why must it taunt its neighbours so? If only Israel allowed Hamas to build up its terror statelet in Gaza unimpeded, angry Muslim youths wouldn’t riot in the French banlieues. If only Jews were driven once again from Kfar Etzion and Giv'on HaHadasha — this time not in blood but in cushioned, air-conditioned UN buses — there would be no more 9/11s. If only Jews had no national homeland, returned to rootlessness and the kindness of Christian and Islamic hosts, synagogues would no longer be daubed in swastikas and Free Gazas.
As the left-wing Israeli novelist Amos Oz wrote: "When my father was a little boy in Poland, the streets of Europe were covered with graffiti, 'Jews, go back to Palestine', or sometimes worse: 'Dirty Yids, piss off to Palestine'. When my father revisited Europe fifty years later, the walls were covered with new graffiti, 'Jews, get out of Palestine’.” To be an anti-Zionist is to say the Jews alone have no national rights. The Left are committed internationalists; they just make an exception for every country in the world besides Israel. Today a European leftist is someone who sees "Jews, get out of Palestine" on a wall and tuts, before scoring out "Jews" and writing "Zionists" above it. Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite and nor are most people on the Left. He is a petition-signer who never reads the small-print, a sincere man blinded as so many radicals are by hatred of the United States and Western power. But his ascendancy comes at a time of great upheaval and populist torrents battering the centre-left and centre-right. It is a storm in which the organisation of politics against the Jews could once again prove an anchoring force in Europe.
Corbyn has declared: "We all have a duty to oppose any kind of racism wherever it raises its head, in whatever form it raises its head." When he is elected Labour leader next month, Corbyn will become a pivotal figure on the international Left. He should use that office to mature his own politics and shepherd his comrades towards a civil and tolerant radicalism.
http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/analysis/1327077-stephen-daisley-on-jeremy-corbyn-the-left-anti-semitism-and-israel/
Just to advise as some seem confused, the parts highlighted in blue are links to sources.
A JC poll finds 67% of British Jews “concerned” about the Islington North MP becoming Labour leader. The newspaper warns that Corbyn risks being perceived as "an enemy of Britain’s Jewish community” and has implored him to answer questions about his associations with anti-Semites and Holocaust deniers. This he has failed to do to any satisfaction. He cannot recall meeting Abou Jahjah, despite a picture of the two of them sitting side-by-side on a panel. He was unaware of Eisen's views at the time. He stresses that Salah "did not at any stage utter any antisemitic remarks to me". Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. How I wish that he were. How much easier it would make things. We could chalk all this up to the prejudices of one man and we could avoid the raw, awkward conversation we’re about to have. Because this isn’t about Jeremy Corbyn; he’s just a symptom and a symbol. The Left, and not just the fringes, has an anti-Semitism problem. Contrary to left-wing mythology, anti-Jewish prejudice has never been the exclusive preserve of aristocratic snobs or skinhead fantasists. "The Jew is the enemy of the human race," declared Proudhon. "One must send this race back to Asia or exterminate it." Bakunin labelled Jews "bloodsucking people" while Orwell, self-consciously anti-Semitic, even obsessed over the excessive number of Jews sheltering in London's Underground during World War II. (No matter what the Jews do to protect themselves, it's always disproportionate.) Marx, the grandson of a rabbi, essayed: ”Once society has succeeded in abolishing the empirical essence of Judaism – huckstering and its preconditions – the Jew will have become impossible”.
The contemporary Left, in most cases, would recognise these statements as irrational prejudice. But what if we substituted "Zionist" for "Jew", what would happen then? How many would object to "Zionists" being termed enemies of the human race? How many would be glad to see the "Zionist" become impossible? Anti-Zionism has removed much of the need for classical anti-Semitism by recycling the old superstitions as a political critique of the State of Israel. Why risk the ridicule that comes with quoting The Protocols of the Elders of Zion when you can cite The Israel Lobby and win eager nods from academics and commentators? Why deny the Holocaust when you can throw it back in the Jews' faces by fictionalising Gaza as a concentration camp? Why hurl rocks at a Jew in the street when you can hurl endless vexatious UN resolutions at Israel?
Every pathology of the anti-Semite can be visited upon the Jewish state in the flimsy guise of "anti-imperialism" or "human rights". It's all okay because it's "Zionism" you're against and that's not the same thing as Jews and what about Jews who are anti-Zionist. The hallmark of a bigot is seizing on dissonant voices within a minority community and using them to delegitimise the mainstream of that community. The exception becomes the rule and those whose only connection to Jewish communal life is signing onto letters to the Guardian denouncing Israel become more Jewish than everyone else.
It shouldn't have to be said but since stupidity is nearing pandemic levels these days I'll say it all the same. There is nothing anti-Semitic about criticising Benjamin Netanyahu, the Likud-led government, or the policies of the State of Israel. There is nothing anti-Semitic about sympathising with the plight of the Palestinians (though it might be nice to recognise their culpability in the conflict too). There is nothing anti-Semitic about lacerating Israel for walls and checkpoints and bombs (though do address your alternative strategies to Beit Aghion, 9 Smolenskin Street, Jerusalem, Israel.) The Left’s unhinged antipathy towards the State of Israel has let loose ugly sentiments wholly unmoored from such legitimate criticisms. Israel is execrated as uniquely malignant and its enemies held up as plucky freedom-fighters or victim-idols. Corbyn and his like sup with Hamas and Hezbollah, they say, because we must talk to all sides to resolve the conflict, even the extreme and unpleasant. It would never occur to them to invite representatives of the Jewish Defence League to Parliament or to count Baruch Marzel or Michael Ben-Ari as “friends”. Why don’t the policies of the Chinese government in Tibet or against the Uighurs in Xinjiang inspire comparable protests and boycotts? Why do none of our cultural warriors demand the Edinburgh Festival kick out Russian-sponsored acts over Chechnya or Crimea? Why is produce from Iran or Pakistan never flung upon the floors of the nation’s supermarkets in solidarity with Muslim gays and women? Why is Deir Yassin remembered but not Safed or Hebron or the Hadassah convoy?
The problem goes deeper than asymmetry. For too many on the Left, Jewish suffering does not touch them the way Muslim suffering or gay suffering or black suffering touches them. Scrutiny of Corbyn's associations elicits cries of "smear" or just a collective shrug of the shoulders. It was always going to. We lack a language to talk about anti-Semitism because too many on the Left don't consider it a serious problem and couldn't recognise it as readily as racism, misogyny or homophobia anyway. When Labour MP Paul Flynn challenged the appointment of Britain’s first Jewish ambassador to Israel, demanding instead “someone with roots in the UK” who “can’t be accused of having Jewish loyalty”, there was little more than a few murmurs. The Liberal Democrats looked the other way when their former peer Jenny Tonge urged an inquiry into whether Israeli medics helping earthquake victims in Haiti had actually gone there to harvest their organs. That party also failed to expel ex-MP David Ward, who accused “the Jews” of “inflicting atrocities on Palestinians”. And who would come forward to cast the first stone? The Independent, which once published a cartoon of Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon eating a Palestinian baby? The Guardian, which marked Holocaust Memorial Day 2012 with an expose on public money going to security for Jewish schools? How about the New Statesman, publisher of a notorious cover story on the supposed “kosher conspiracy” influencing Britain?
Those who are questioning Jeremy Corbyn's associations are dismissed as "extreme Zionists" and yet I struggle to imagine critics of a politician's links to white supremacists being shouted down as "black nationalists". The Left gets racism; it doesn't get anti-Semitism. It's forever on Cable Street battling a long-gone menace while around the corner thousands march and chant "from the river to the sea". Ruth Wisse defines anti-Semitism as "the organisation of politics against the Jews" and says it owes more to political ideology than clerical prejudice. Against the intolerable opening-up of political institutions, social structures and markets brought about by liberalism, anti-Semites offer the Jew as the symbol of conniving and decadence, sinister motives and hidden agendas. It has worked nicely for Soviet communists and Arab nationalists, as for Islamist theocrats and European fascists. Israel has become the Jew of world affairs, affluent, successful, provocatively different. A rooted cosmopolitan that is to blame for being the only country in that region that is free and open and truly democratic. Why must it taunt its neighbours so? If only Israel allowed Hamas to build up its terror statelet in Gaza unimpeded, angry Muslim youths wouldn’t riot in the French banlieues. If only Jews were driven once again from Kfar Etzion and Giv'on HaHadasha — this time not in blood but in cushioned, air-conditioned UN buses — there would be no more 9/11s. If only Jews had no national homeland, returned to rootlessness and the kindness of Christian and Islamic hosts, synagogues would no longer be daubed in swastikas and Free Gazas.
As the left-wing Israeli novelist Amos Oz wrote: "When my father was a little boy in Poland, the streets of Europe were covered with graffiti, 'Jews, go back to Palestine', or sometimes worse: 'Dirty Yids, piss off to Palestine'. When my father revisited Europe fifty years later, the walls were covered with new graffiti, 'Jews, get out of Palestine’.” To be an anti-Zionist is to say the Jews alone have no national rights. The Left are committed internationalists; they just make an exception for every country in the world besides Israel. Today a European leftist is someone who sees "Jews, get out of Palestine" on a wall and tuts, before scoring out "Jews" and writing "Zionists" above it. Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite and nor are most people on the Left. He is a petition-signer who never reads the small-print, a sincere man blinded as so many radicals are by hatred of the United States and Western power. But his ascendancy comes at a time of great upheaval and populist torrents battering the centre-left and centre-right. It is a storm in which the organisation of politics against the Jews could once again prove an anchoring force in Europe.
Corbyn has declared: "We all have a duty to oppose any kind of racism wherever it raises its head, in whatever form it raises its head." When he is elected Labour leader next month, Corbyn will become a pivotal figure on the international Left. He should use that office to mature his own politics and shepherd his comrades towards a civil and tolerant radicalism.
http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/analysis/1327077-stephen-daisley-on-jeremy-corbyn-the-left-anti-semitism-and-israel/
Just to advise as some seem confused, the parts highlighted in blue are links to sources.
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by The Devil, You Know Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:14 pm
corbyn may well not be an anti semite, but he does hang around with a lot of rabid anti semites and many of his supporters are anti semitic as we can see by some of the posts here.
He also associates and approves of terrorists of many different flavours., as does at least one poster from here.
So perhaps you can judge him by the company he keeps.
He also associates and approves of terrorists of many different flavours., as does at least one poster from here.
So perhaps you can judge him by the company he keeps.
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:18 pm
Indeed, I do not think he is antisemitic, but he panders to extremists and terrorists, which is a big failing of some of the left. They have little clue about some of the ideology and hate going on and ignore this. Let Labour vote him in as he would ensure Labour would lose the next general election which I am very happy with.
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Irn Bru Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:52 pm
A response to Stephen Daisley
It's hard to miss the fact that Israel is something of a preoccupation for STV's online columnist Stephen Daisley. I don't think I've ever seen him more animated than when he was defending Jim Murphy against the charge of being a "mouthpiece for international Zionism".
Today, he's penned an article which takes the familiar approach of branding much of the Left as being anti-Semitic or borderline anti-Semitic on the basis of associations, and inferences that can supposedly be drawn from things people don't say, rather than things they do. It strikes me that it's only fair that a journalist who follows that approach should be subjected to exactly the same scrutiny himself. We don't hear much - in fact we barely hear anything - about what Daisley thinks of Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people. But can we gain any clues from his critique of the pro-Palestinian lobby? Unfortunately, the answer is yes, and the picture it paints is rather disturbing.
"Perhaps they don’t quite revere [Corbyn] like the other JC — a Jew born in Bethlehem and therefore an illegal Israeli settler..."
Now, obviously that's intended as a comedic aside, but what intrigues me is where the humour is supposed to lie. It's very hard not to interpret it as poking fun at the 'extreme' or 'loony left' position of caring about whether Israel builds illegal settlements on Palestinian land. Is it not reasonable to conclude, therefore, that Daisley thinks 'normal' people don't and shouldn't care about illegal settlements? Does he really think that's an attractive or 'moderate' view to take?
"Why deny the Holocaust when you can throw it back in the Jews' faces by fictionalising Gaza as a concentration camp?"
You can read the rest here...
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/stephen-daisley-and-israel.html
It's hard to miss the fact that Israel is something of a preoccupation for STV's online columnist Stephen Daisley. I don't think I've ever seen him more animated than when he was defending Jim Murphy against the charge of being a "mouthpiece for international Zionism".
Today, he's penned an article which takes the familiar approach of branding much of the Left as being anti-Semitic or borderline anti-Semitic on the basis of associations, and inferences that can supposedly be drawn from things people don't say, rather than things they do. It strikes me that it's only fair that a journalist who follows that approach should be subjected to exactly the same scrutiny himself. We don't hear much - in fact we barely hear anything - about what Daisley thinks of Israel's treatment of the Palestinian people. But can we gain any clues from his critique of the pro-Palestinian lobby? Unfortunately, the answer is yes, and the picture it paints is rather disturbing.
"Perhaps they don’t quite revere [Corbyn] like the other JC — a Jew born in Bethlehem and therefore an illegal Israeli settler..."
Now, obviously that's intended as a comedic aside, but what intrigues me is where the humour is supposed to lie. It's very hard not to interpret it as poking fun at the 'extreme' or 'loony left' position of caring about whether Israel builds illegal settlements on Palestinian land. Is it not reasonable to conclude, therefore, that Daisley thinks 'normal' people don't and shouldn't care about illegal settlements? Does he really think that's an attractive or 'moderate' view to take?
"Why deny the Holocaust when you can throw it back in the Jews' faces by fictionalising Gaza as a concentration camp?"
You can read the rest here...
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/stephen-daisley-and-israel.html
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Irn Bru Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:55 pm
Stephen Daisley's Bio as published by The Times of Israel.
Stephen Daisley is a UK-based freelance writer and journalist who has contributed to a wide range of publications, including Commentary, Standpoint, and The Commentator, and writes a blog called The Eclectic Partisan. He has an MSc in Political Communication and an interest in Israel, politics, and antisemitism. He is a Catholic, a Zionist, and writes from a center-right perspective.
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/author/stephen-daisley/
Completely unbiased of course - not.
Stephen Daisley is a UK-based freelance writer and journalist who has contributed to a wide range of publications, including Commentary, Standpoint, and The Commentator, and writes a blog called The Eclectic Partisan. He has an MSc in Political Communication and an interest in Israel, politics, and antisemitism. He is a Catholic, a Zionist, and writes from a center-right perspective.
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/author/stephen-daisley/
Completely unbiased of course - not.
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:06 pm
Oh here we go again not able to debate the points made, but yet again go off the writer.
Tell me Irn as I stated to Zack, if you had to write a response to Mein kampf, would you write well it was written by Hitler as your response?
If that was an exam you would fail straight away.
So best you either debate the points or move along because you clearly have nothing to say or can counter the many points made.
Tell me Irn as I stated to Zack, if you had to write a response to Mein kampf, would you write well it was written by Hitler as your response?
If that was an exam you would fail straight away.
So best you either debate the points or move along because you clearly have nothing to say or can counter the many points made.
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Irn Bru Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:12 pm
Cuchulain wrote:Oh here we go again not able to debate the points made, but yet again go off the writer.
Tell me Irn as I stated to Zack, if you had to write a response to Mein kampf, would you write well it was written by Hitler as your response?
If that was an exam you would fail straight away.
So best you either debate the points or move along because you clearly have nothing to say or can counter the many points made.
Well you just copied out an article without much comment or did you write all that yourself? So you have no reason to complain about the response
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:14 pm
So you failed again to counter any of the points.
I stand by many of the points he made.
So I guess like I thought you could not counter them.
No problem
I stand by many of the points he made.
So I guess like I thought you could not counter them.
No problem
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Irn Bru Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:16 pm
Cuchulain wrote:So you failed again to counter any of the points.
I stand by many of the points he made.
So I guess like I thought you could not counter them.
No problem
And I stand by the response which makes many valid points - no problem then.
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:17 pm
You made no points, you scored a complete fail by not addressing the actual article.
Good thing you are not a teacher.
I am happy for a critical view of the points, but you made poor excuses.
Never mind
Good thing you are not a teacher.
I am happy for a critical view of the points, but you made poor excuses.
Never mind
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Irn Bru Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:22 pm
Cuchulain wrote:You made no points, you scored a complete fail by not addressing the actual article.
Good thing you are not a teacher.
I am happy for a critical view of the points, but you made poor excuses.
Never mind
Neither did you. Just a C&P of someone else's views - and a self confessed Zionist at that.
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:23 pm
That is because I am waiting for someone to disagree with the points and make their points.
You are just stalling now and wasting my time.
Either make a debate here or move along
You are just stalling now and wasting my time.
Either make a debate here or move along
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Irn Bru Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:27 pm
Cuchulain wrote:That is because I am waiting for someone to disagree with the points and make their points.
You are just stalling now and wasting my time.
Either make a debate here or move along
I stand by all the points made in the response in fact I would have written that myself.
Do you support the Zionist view on this? I think you said earlier that you didn't think Corbyn is an anti-semite. Have you changed you mind?
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:29 pm
I do not support Zionism.
Have stated this many times.
So again more excuses.
he made many valid points about some of the people he has kept company with, who hold very extremist views, which should be rightly questioned.
Have stated this many times.
So again more excuses.
he made many valid points about some of the people he has kept company with, who hold very extremist views, which should be rightly questioned.
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Irn Bru Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:32 pm
Cuchulain wrote:I do not support Zionism.
Have stated this many times.
So again more excuses.
he made many valid points about some of the people he has kept company with, who hold very extremist views, which should be rightly questioned.
Daisley is a Zionist. And who did he keep company with and to what degree because that is very important?
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:39 pm
So he is a zionist.
I if a labour supporter writes an article I think is good, does that make me then left wing and a labour supporter?
Of course not, stop being abusrd and making poor excuses.
I take the articles for what they are and lets face fact all no matter who writes them will have a biased dependent on their views. its being able to take the points on.
I if a labour supporter writes an article I think is good, does that make me then left wing and a labour supporter?
Of course not, stop being abusrd and making poor excuses.
I take the articles for what they are and lets face fact all no matter who writes them will have a biased dependent on their views. its being able to take the points on.
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Irn Bru Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:44 pm
Cuchulain wrote:So he is a zionist.
I if a labour supporter writes an article I think is good, does that make me then left wing and a labour supporter?
Of course not, stop being abusrd and making poor excuses.
I take the articles for what they are and lets face fact all no matter who writes them will have a biased dependent on their views. its being able to take the points on.
Your support of Zionists in the way you constantly use Zionist supporters and their websites to make points is a bit of a givaway Didge.
Now, who are these people that Corbyn is keeping company with and to what degree because that is important?
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:48 pm
Copout reply.Irn Bru wrote:Cuchulain wrote:So he is a zionist.
I if a labour supporter writes an article I think is good, does that make me then left wing and a labour supporter?
Of course not, stop being abusrd and making poor excuses.
I take the articles for what they are and lets face fact all no matter who writes them will have a biased dependent on their views. its being able to take the points on.
Your support of Zionists in the way you constantly use Zionist supporters and their websites to make points is a bit of a givaway Didge.
Now, who are these people that Corbyn is keeping company with and to what degree because that is important?
I rightly condemn the israel governemnt, of the IDF or israeli extremits when they commit wrongs.
I defend against poor claims made or back views that are ligitimate and have validity.
You are again making a poor deflection making absurd reasoing because you refuse to take on the points and yet again if this article was something you had to give a political argument counter in an exam you would fail.
So your childish views to me on zionism, are a poor deflection. Some of these sites are by zionists supporters, which zionist come in many different political view points, right, liberal and left. I am not concerned at their zionist beliefs, but of self determination for israelis. They also at times make valid points, so to discount people because they are zionists is like saying I should discount Muslims because of Islam. Now I doubt you would ever do that when both are ideologies.
Zionism is not an extreme ideology either.
Why are so many Jews concerned as seen by the Poll Irn?
Some of these people he has company with hold very extreme views Irn or are you denying this.??
He has even lied about some of these meetings.
Trustworthy?
It makes him less credible.
One last time Irn to make a debate of the article.
As this is the new me that does not play your poor debating tactics anymore
Last edited by Cuchulain on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:52 pm
Tell us exactly what you condemn, because you don't condemn the settlements which are illegal under international law and you continue to say that the land is disputed, which is what Zionists say, and that is the greatest bone of contention and what stops any peace in it's tracks. Where do you think Israel's border should be? Should Israel jail children under military law, while not jailing Israeli children for exactly the same offences. Do you think an occupied people have the right to fight to get their country back?
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:54 pm
Here we go again.
I condemn many points yet you have failed time and time again to do the same when I have questioned you.
You avoid, or run away from saying
Points have been made sassy
Either address them or move on
Its that simple
I condemn many points yet you have failed time and time again to do the same when I have questioned you.
You avoid, or run away from saying
Points have been made sassy
Either address them or move on
Its that simple
Last edited by Cuchulain on Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:54 pm
No they haven't. I asked you direct questions. Answer them straight for once.
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Irn Bru Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:55 pm
Cuchulain wrote:Copout reply.Irn Bru wrote:Cuchulain wrote:So he is a zionist.
I if a labour supporter writes an article I think is good, does that make me then left wing and a labour supporter?
Of course not, stop being abusrd and making poor excuses.
I take the articles for what they are and lets face fact all no matter who writes them will have a biased dependent on their views. its being able to take the points on.
Your support of Zionists in the way you constantly use Zionist supporters and their websites to make points is a bit of a givaway Didge.
Now, who are these people that Corbyn is keeping company with and to what degree because that is important?
I rightly condemn the israel governemnt, of the IDF or israeli extremits when they commit wrongs.
I defend against poor claims made or back views that are ligitimate and have validity.
You are again making a poor deflection making absurd reasoing because you refuse to take on the points and yet again if this article was something you had to give a political argument counter in an exam you would fail.
So your childish views to me on zionism, are a poor deflection.
Why are so many Jews concerned as seen by the Poll Irn?
Some of these people hold very extreme views Irn or are you denying this.??
One last time Irn to make a debate of the article.
As this is the new me that does not play your poor debating tactics anymore
Yes Didge, you whimper about the settlements being wrong but that's about it. You think the population of Gaza are being allowed sufficent produce and materails due to the generosity if the Israeli's is just one example.
So, it's about Corbyn and who he keeps company with. Who are these people and to what degree does he do that? That's the claim made so get on with it and tell me who they are.
I'll look forwqard to the new you
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:59 pm
sassy wrote:No they haven't. I asked you direct questions. Answer them straight for once.
You asked me direct questions?
Shall I pull up where you got so much in a muddle you ran away from answering if you condemned Hamas, which you later backed with armed ressistance under occupation. That means you do not recognise israel because gaza is not occupied and they attack Israel.
You class them as freedom fighterts.
I have condemned Operation Hannibal.
I condemn Israel for detaining children and also condemn hamas for indoctrainating them with hate to dangerously throw stones at cars which has killed people
I have stated before I am against settlements. which you know I have but choose to ignore.
Now do you back the laws governed by Hamas in Gaza?
Do you support their religious laws?
Do you support them attacking israel with rocket attacks
Do you support them wasting building materials to build tunnels to attack israel and not rebuild Gasa?
Do you condemn them for not building bomb shelters?
Do you condemn them for calling for martydom and glorifying suicide bombers
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:00 pm
So, you condemn all the settlements and think they are illegal and the settlers should leave and the land belongs to Palestine?
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Irn Bru Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:03 pm
I'm away to paint a door
Actually going to watch the footie highlights from the other games.
Probably look in later
Actually going to watch the footie highlights from the other games.
Probably look in later
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:04 pm
That is nice for you, but you failed to even start the debate.
Like I say you get so many chances and then get relegated to the minor legues Irn
Enjoy the football
Like I say you get so many chances and then get relegated to the minor legues Irn
Enjoy the football
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:06 pm
sassy wrote:So, you condemn all the settlements and think they are illegal and the settlers should leave and the land belongs to Palestine?
There is no land called palestine.
No I do not think many of the settlements should now leave as the demographis have changed that much.
They are not illegal either as its disputed territory.
Again i do not back settlements I think they are wrong.
Any new ones in the last 5 years should be withdrawn, any longer, there is little point
So where I answer your points you refuse again to answer mine
Now do you back the laws governed by Hamas in Gaza?
Do you support their religious laws?
Do you support them attacking israel with rocket attacks
Do you support them wasting building materials to build tunnels to attack israel and not rebuild Gasa?
Do you condemn them for not building bomb shelters?
Do you condemn them for calling for martydom and glorifying suicide bombers
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:15 pm
So as i proved, sassy once again refused to answer and has run away from doing so.
case closed.
case closed.
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:16 pm
Cuchulain wrote:sassy wrote:No they haven't. I asked you direct questions. Answer them straight for once.
You asked me direct questions?
Shall I pull up where you got so much in a muddle you ran away from answering I never run away did, some times, unlike you I run out of time as I have other more important things to do. if you condemned Hamas, which you later backed with armed ressistance under occupation. That means you do not recognise israel because gaza is not occupied and they attack Israel. Gaza is not occupied because Gaza is a prison that has nothing, where Israeli's every day shoot farmers in their fields from across the fence and fire on fishing boats in their own sea.
You class them as freedom fighterts. Yes I do
I have condemned Operation Hannibal. What about all the other operations, what about white phospherus etc
I condemn Israel for detaining children and also condemn hamas for indoctrainating them with hate to dangerously throw stones at cars which has killed people They throw stones to resist the occupation, occupied people are allowed to resist and stone are all they have against bombs and bullets. Israeli children throw stones and do not jailed, IDF stand next to them while they do it protecting them What about the fact that the UN have condemned what Israeli children are taught
I have stated before I am against settlements. which you know I have but choose to ignore. No you haven't, you have never agreed they are illegal under internation law, you have always spouted the Zionist line about the land being disputed
Now do you back the laws governed by Hamas in Gaza? Do you actually know the laws that Hamas have?
Do you support their religious laws? I support anyone chosing their own religion, Israel has religious law as well
Do you support them attacking israel with rocket attacks I know that the rockets they fire are normally fired after a background of Israel shooting Gazans from the lookout points and the rockets mostly land in field near the fence
Do you support them wasting building materials to build tunnels to attack israel and not rebuild Gasa? They don't, they don't have the materials to rebuild, Israel won't allow it. The tunnels are built out of materials that are substandard and are highly dangerous, but they go through them out of necessity to bright stuff in that they can't get.
Do you condemn them for not building bomb shelters? What the fuck do you think they are going to build bomb shelters with, and in the most overpopulated area on earth, where the hell do you think they are going to build them.
Do you condemn them for calling for martydom and glorifying suicide bombers A matyr is someone who dies for a cause. And I don't believe in suicide bombers and there have been none since 2008
And guess what, I was making OH's packed lunch, far more important than you any day of the week.
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:27 pm
sassy wrote:Cuchulain wrote:
I never run away did, some times, unlike you I run out of time as I have other more important things to do. Gaza is not occupied because Gaza is a prison that has nothing, where Israeli's every day shoot farmers in their fields from across the fence and fire on fishing boats in their own sea.
Yes I do
What about all the other operations, what about white phospherus etc
They throw stones to resist the occupation, occupied people are allowed to resist and stone are all they have against bombs and bullets. Israeli children throw stones and do not jailed, IDF stand next to them while they do it protecting them What about the fact that the UN have condemned what Israeli children are taught
No you haven't, you have never agreed they are illegal under internation law, you have always spouted the Zionist line about the land being disputed
Now do you back the laws governed by Hamas in Gaza? Do you actually know the laws that Hamas have?
Do you support their religious laws? I support anyone chosing their own religion, Israel has religious law as well
Do you support them attacking israel with rocket attacks I know that the rockets they fire are normally fired after a background of Israel shooting Gazans from the lookout points and the rockets mostly land in field near the fence
Do you support them wasting building materials to build tunnels to attack israel and not rebuild Gasa? They don't, they don't have the materials to rebuild, Israel won't allow it. The tunnels are built out of materials that are substandard and are highly dangerous, but they go through them out of necessity to bright stuff in that they can't get.
Do you condemn them for not building bomb shelters? What the fuck do you think they are going to build bomb shelters with, and in the most overpopulated area on earth, where the hell do you think they are going to build them.
Do you condemn them for calling for martydom and glorifying suicide bombers A matyr is someone who dies for a cause. And I don't believe in suicide bombers and there have been none since 2008
And guess what, I was making OH's packed lunch, far more important than you any day of the week.
So Sassy classes them as freedom fighters.
They are free in Gaza as they are not occupied thus as stated she does not reconise Israel as they attack israelk and has a charter to destroy israel, thus sassy supports terrorists. They are not under occupation and attacking another country is not being occupied is it?
She then goes off weapons used. Not illegal or proof based on a doctor proved to be lying
So to my questions
First point not answered and yes I do know the laws, though I asked if you back them
Yes or No?
Second question, did not answer again.
I do not support any religiously based law, even in Israel, which the majroity of their laws are secular.
I back a personal to have religious views but to not impose them on others.
So Do you support their religious laws?
Yes or No
Third Question asked to Sassy and yet again a deflection answered and not a yes or no answer.
Each rocket fired is indiscriminate and classed as a war crime.
So Do you support them attacking israel with rocket attacks ?
Yes or No?
Fourth question asked and the worst answer given. We know hamas has built many tunnels to attack israel. They have even been caught gloating about using these materials.
So again
Do you support them wasting building materials to build tunnels to attack israel and not rebuild Gasa?
Yes or No
Fifth question evaded again. If they have bomb shelters they have places to go to after warned by Israel view, phone text, leaflets.
So again
Do you condemn them for not building bomb shelters?
Yes or no?
Sixth question evaded partly and still not condemned.
A person who commits sucide murdering people is not a martyr even to many Muslims sassy, who also rightly condemn such acts
Do you condemn them for calling for martydom and glorifying suicide bombers?
Yes or No
Now a simple yes or no please.
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:29 pm
Never a place called Palestine, a REAL ZIONIST STATEMENT
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:31 pm
Cuchulain wrote:sassy wrote:So, you condemn all the settlements and think they are illegal and the settlers should leave and the land belongs to Palestine?
There is no land called palestine. Zionist Statement
No I do not think many of the settlements should now leave as the demographis have changed that much. Zionist Statement
They are not illegal either as its disputed territory. Zionist Statment
Again i do not back settlements I think they are wrong. But you won't say they should go, Zionist Statment
Any new ones in the last 5 years should be withdrawn, any longer, there is little point
So where I answer your points you refuse again to answer mine
Now do you back the laws governed by Hamas in Gaza? Already answered and they were elected
Do you support their religious laws? Already answered
Do you support them attacking israel with rocket attacksAlready answered
Do you support them wasting building materials to build tunnels to attack israel and not rebuild Gasa?Already answered
Do you condemn them for not building bomb shelters? Already answered
Do you condemn them for calling for martydom and glorifying suicide bombers Already answered
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:36 pm
sassy wrote:Cuchulain wrote:
There is no land called palestine. Zionist Statement
No I do not think many of the settlements should now leave as the demographis have changed that much. Zionist Statement
They are not illegal either as its disputed territory. Zionist Statment
Again i do not back settlements I think they are wrong. But you won't say they should go, Zionist Statment
Any new ones in the last 5 years should be withdrawn, any longer, there is little point
So where I answer your points you refuse again to answer mine
Now do you back the laws governed by Hamas in Gaza? Already answered and they were elected
Do you support their religious laws? Already answered
Do you support them attacking israel with rocket attacksAlready answered
Do you support them wasting building materials to build tunnels to attack israel and not rebuild Gasa?Already answered
Do you condemn them for not building bomb shelters? Already answered
Do you condemn them for calling for martydom and glorifying suicide bombers Already answered
Hilarious, I am starting to laugh now, so anything where anyone disagres is zionist, which is absurd, and shows how absured the left have become
Not answer try again
So to my questions
First point not answered and yes I do know the laws, though I asked if you back them
Yes or No?
Second question, did not answer again.
I do not support any religiously based law, even in Israel, which the majroity of their laws are secular.
I back a personal to have religious views but to not impose them on others.
So Do you support their religious laws?
Yes or No
Third Question asked to Sassy and yet again a deflection answered and not a yes or no answer.
Each rocket fired is indiscriminate and classed as a war crime.
So Do you support them attacking israel with rocket attacks ?
Yes or No?
Fourth question asked and the worst answer given. We know hamas has built many tunnels to attack israel. They have even been caught gloating about using these materials.
So again
Do you support them wasting building materials to build tunnels to attack israel and not rebuild Gasa?
Yes or No
Fifth question evaded again. If they have bomb shelters they have places to go to after warned by Israel view, phone text, leaflets.
So again
Do you condemn them for not building bomb shelters?
Yes or no?
Sixth question evaded partly and still not condemned.
A person who commits sucide murdering people is not a martyr even to many Muslims sassy, who also rightly condemn such acts
Do you condemn them for calling for martydom and glorifying suicide bombers?
Yes or No
Now a simple yes or no please.
Guest- Guest
Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:37 pm
How easy to prove my point sassy avoids answerring, deflects or runs away.
easily proved
Its seems to be the bog standard answer call everyone a zionist lol and hope thta makes their case.
If a teacher was marking that Sassy you would get an F
easily proved
Its seems to be the bog standard answer call everyone a zionist lol and hope thta makes their case.
If a teacher was marking that Sassy you would get an F
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Irn Bru Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:15 am
Cuchulain wrote:That is nice for you, but you failed to even start the debate.
Like I say you get so many chances and then get relegated to the minor legues Irn
Enjoy the football
C'mon Didge. Back up that Corbyn keeps bad company and to what degree. You made the claim so it's time to come up with the goodies.
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Irn Bru Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:20 am
Cuchulain wrote:sassy wrote:So, you condemn all the settlements and think they are illegal and the settlers should leave and the land belongs to Palestine?
There is no land called palestine.
No I do not think many of the settlements should now leave as the demographis have changed that much.
They are not illegal either as its disputed territory.
Again i do not back settlements I think they are wrong.
Any new ones in the last 5 years should be withdrawn, any longer, there is little point
So where I answer your points you refuse again to answer mine
Now do you back the laws governed by Hamas in Gaza?
Do you support their religious laws?
Do you support them attacking israel with rocket attacks
Do you support them wasting building materials to build tunnels to attack israel and not rebuild Gasa?
Do you condemn them for not building bomb shelters?
Do you condemn them for calling for martydom and glorifying suicide bombers
Well that completes that then. No land called Palestine and no land for Palestinians. It all belongs to the Jewish State of Israel because the bible told them so. It was promised to them.
You couldn't be any clearer Didge.
Nuff said then.
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
by Guest Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:19 am
Irn Bru wrote:Cuchulain wrote:
There is no land called palestine.
No I do not think many of the settlements should now leave as the demographis have changed that much.
They are not illegal either as its disputed territory.
Again i do not back settlements I think they are wrong.
Any new ones in the last 5 years should be withdrawn, any longer, there is little point
So where I answer your points you refuse again to answer mine
Now do you back the laws governed by Hamas in Gaza?
Do you support their religious laws?
Do you support them attacking israel with rocket attacks
Do you support them wasting building materials to build tunnels to attack israel and not rebuild Gasa?
Do you condemn them for not building bomb shelters?
Do you condemn them for calling for martydom and glorifying suicide bombers
Well that completes that then. No land called Palestine and no land for Palestinians. It all belongs to the Jewish State of Israel because the bible told them so. It was promised to them.
You couldn't be any clearer Didge.
Nuff said then.
Oh dear you really are struggling. It means the land does not officially belong to anyone. The very fact before 1948 it was mainly Jews who called themselves Palestinians where many Arabs in these territories did not refer to themselves as palestinians, shows you really struggle with history. There is the West bank and Gaza neither recognised as a state yet, even though they govern themselves, which are recognised by many nations which would mean they cannot be occupied, you cannot have it either way. Which if you accept their governments to rule, then you accept there are very much unoccupied Irn? Where did I say it belongs to the state of Israel, which you now make racial and say Jewish not Israeli's? Slip of the antisemitic tongue there Irn? I said the land is contested.
So your desperation here to defend Sassy who supports a terrorist group whos intent is the destruction of Israel as who clearly defines them as freedom fighters. You know where they execute those they believe colloborate with Israel without trial. Yet the territory of Gaza is unnocupied which clearly proves she does not recognise Israeli's existance. As the only then territory to be viewed to be freed would be Israel as Gaza is not occupied or governed by Israel. Not only that they commit war crimes with rocket attacks of which Sassy refuses to condemn. You see extremist left wing terrorists supporters like Stassi are not that bright and slip up easily. She cannot even condemn where they glorify suicide bombers. She then states there has not been one for several years another telling point because Israel had to impliment defense measures. None of which would have been needed if Hamas had not continued a war against Israel when they withdrew from Gaza. Also neglecting Eygpt also blockades these islamists, which shes claims has wonderful laws, that do not persecute women, homosexuals, Christians etc.
There is no country in history called Palestine, even today the two places looking for statehood called West Bank and Gaza, which I back to have statehood under secular laws. In 1964 the PLO charter did not even call for them to be liberated from the brutal occupation by Jorden and Eygpt. So they were happy to be occupied by Arab nations which is telling itself. This only changed when Israel defeated both Eygpt and Jordan. Which shows this has really nothing to do with having a statedhood, but what religiously based majority is in control of lands. This is self evident again in Jordan itself where the Palestinians are in the majority but not the rulling body, yet we do not see either you or Stassi protest that either. You see it is very easy to tear apart the hypocrisy of those of the left who as seen arguments fall apart.
Any liberal minded person would not back a group like Hamas or Fatah to obtain power with religiously based laws, that are counter to the well being and equality of others. Hence why both Israel, Gaza and the West Bank need Liberal governemnts for peace.
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Re: Analysis: Jeremy Corbyn is not an anti-Semite. It’s so much worse than that
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