Ten Ways Israel Is Treated Differently

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:35 am

It's appalling to see how Israel is treated by a totally different standard than other countries in the international system. Of course, Israel deserves scrutiny, as does every other nation. But it also merits equal treatment -- nothing more, nothing less.

First, Israel is the only UN member state whose very right to exist is under constant challenge.
Notwithstanding the fact that Israel embodies an age-old connection with the Jewish people as repeatedly cited in the most widely read book in the world, the Bible, that it was created based on the 1947 recommendation of the UN, and that it has been a member of the world body since 1949, there's a relentless chorus of nations, institutions, and individuals denying Israel's very political legitimacy. No one would dare question the right to exist of many other countries whose basis for legitimacy is infinitely more questionable than Israel's, including those that were created by brute force, occupation, or distant mapmakers. Just look around at how many nations fit those categories, including, by the way, quite a few Arab countries. Why, then, is it open hunting season only on Israel? Could it possibly have anything to do with the fact that it's the only Jewish-majority country in the world?

Second, Israel is the only UN member state that's been targeted for annihilation by another UN member state. Think about it. The leadership of Iran, together with Iran-funded proxies in Lebanon and Gaza, has repeatedly called for wiping Israel off the map. Is there any other country facing the threat of genocidal destruction?

Third, Israel is the only nation whose capital city, Jerusalem, is not recognized by other nations. Imagine the absurdity of this. Foreign diplomats live in Tel Aviv while conducting virtually all their business in Jerusalem. Though no Western nation questions Israel's presence in the city's western half, where the prime minister's office, Knesset (Parliament), and Ministry of Foreign Affairs are located, there are no embassies there.
In fact, look at listings of world cities, including places of birth in passports, and you'll see something striking -- Paris, France; Tokyo, Japan; Pretoria, South Africa; Lima, Peru; and Jerusalem, sans country -- orphaned, if you will.

Fourth, the UN has two agencies dealing with refugees.
One, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), focuses on all the world's refugee populations, save one. The other, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine (UNRWA), handles only the Palestinians. But the difference goes beyond two structures and two bureaucracies. In fact, they have two different mandates. UNHCR seeks to resettle refugees; UNRWA does not. When, in 1951, John Blanford, UNRWA's then-director, proposed resettling up to 250,000 refugees in nearby Arab countries, those countries were enraged and refused, leading to his departure. The message got through. No UN official since has pushed for resettlement. Moreover, the UNRWA and UNHCR definitions of a refugee differ markedly. Whereas the UNHCR targets only those who've actually fled their homelands, the UNRWA definition covers "the descendants of persons who became refugees in 1948," without any generational limitations.

Fifth, Israel is the only country that has won all its major wars for survival and self-defense, yet is confronted by defeated adversaries who have insisted on dictating the terms of peace. In doing so, ironically, they've found support from many countries who, victorious in war themselves, demanded -- and, yes, got -- border adjustments.

Sixth, Israel is the only country in the world with a separate -- and permanent -- agenda item, #7, at the Geneva-based UN Human Rights Council. No other member state, including serial human-rights violators like North Korea, Syria, Iran, and Sudan, gets its own agenda item. Only the sole liberal democracy in the Middle East is treated in this blatantly biased manner because that's the way it works -- the bad guys circle the wagons to protect one another, and, at the same time, gang up on Israel, creating an automatic majority against it.

Seventh, Israel is the only country condemned by name this year at the World Health Organization annual assembly as a "violator" of health rights. This canard takes place despite the fact that Israel provides world-class medical assistance to Syrians wounded in the country's civil war and Palestinians living in Hamas-ruled Gaza; has achieved one of the world's highest life expectancy rates for all its citizens, Jewish and non-Jewish alike; is among the very first medical responders to humanitarian crises wherever they may occur, from Haiti to Nepal; and is daily advancing the frontiers of medicine for everyone, something that can't be said for too many other nations.

Eighth, Israel is the only country that's the daily target of three UN bodies established and staffed solely for the purpose of advancing the Palestinian cause and bashing Israel -- the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People; the Special Committee to Investigate Israeli Practices Affecting the Human Rights of the Palestinian People; and the Division for Palestinian Rights in the UN's Department of Political Affairs.

Ninth, Israel is the only country annually targeted by up to 20 UN General Assembly resolutions and countless measures in other UN bodies, such as the Human Rights Council. Indeed, astonishingly, each year, Israel is on the receiving end of more such efforts than the other 192 UN member states combined. No one can seriously argue that this is remotely warranted, but it's a reality because in every UN body, except the Security Council where each of the five permanent members has a veto, it's all about majority voting.
When close to two-thirds of the world's nations today belong to the Non-Aligned Movement, and when they elect a country like Iran as its chair, with Venezuela on deck, that just about says it all.

And tenth, Israel is the only country targeted by the BDS (boycott, divestment, and sanctions) movement.
Has anyone seen any significant campus activity that takes aim at true human rights offenders, including some in Israel's neighborhood, who behead, forcibly convert, and expel Christians; drop chemically-laced barrel bombs on civilians; deny Palestinians full rights; and use capital punishment, including for minors, with abandon?Has any student group tried to prevent undergraduates from traveling to any country other than Israel, as was the case with a recent "pledge" circulated at UCLA?Has anyone seen any flotillas or flytillas organized by European far-left groups that don't involve an anti-Israel angle?Has anyone seen movements for companies to pull out of any country other than Israel? Turkey, as but one example, has brazenly and unjustifiably occupied one-third of the island nation of Cyprus for 41 years, deployed an estimated 40,000 Turkish troops there, and transferred countless settlers from Anatolia, yet there's not a peep against Ankara from those who purport to act in the name of "justice" and against "occupation."

Given political realities, tackling any of these instances of egregious double standards and blatant hypocrisy can be a daunting challenge. And, still worse, this list is not complete. The old advertisement proclaimed that you don't have to be Jewish to love Levy's Jewish rye bread. Well, surely, you don't have to be a pro-Israel activist to be troubled by the grotesquely unjust treatment of Israel. All it takes is a capacity for moral outrage that things like this are happening today.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-harris/ten-ways-israel-is-treate_b_7579568.html

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:11 am

It shows world hatred of Jews but Israel has always been persecuted but it will always exist .

by Fuzzy Zack Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:49 am

Lol! This is a popular thread.

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:53 am

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Lol! This is a popular thread.

It does kinda demonstrate the threads point, an unusual and widespread negativity and hate for the jews and anything jewish...

by Fuzzy Zack Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:58 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:Lol! This is a popular thread.

It does kinda demonstrate the threads point, an unusual and widespread negativity and hate for the jews and anything jewish...

Let's not spread the false myth that just because you're anti-Zionist means you are anti-Semitic. Not if you want to be taken seriously. It's been pointed out on this board many times that even many Jews are justly against Zionism too.

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:06 am

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

It does kinda demonstrate the threads point, an unusual and widespread negativity and hate for the jews and anything jewish...

Let's not spread the false myth that just because you're anti-Zionist means you are anti-Semitic. Not if you want to be taken seriously. It's been pointed out on this board many times that even many Jews are justly against Zionism too.

though being allegedly anti zionist does make being anti Semitic easier and more PC...

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:08 am

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

It does kinda demonstrate the threads point, an unusual and widespread negativity and hate for the jews and anything jewish...

Let's not spread the false myth that just because you're anti-Zionist means you are anti-Semitic. Not if you want to be taken seriously. It's been pointed out on this board many times that even many Jews are justly against Zionism too.

But lets be honest many Muslims use the pretence of claiming to be against zionism and yet the rhetoric is antisemitism.
All of which is just you as per usual ignoring these important facts.
The question you should be asking is why in many Muslim countries do they preach antisemitism.

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:12 am

French Prime Minister Manuel Valls stressed on Monday there was no link between extremism and Islam, as he opened a conference aimed at improving ties with France's large Muslim community.
"We must say all of this is not Islam," said Valls. "The hate speech, anti-Semitism that hides behind anti-Zionism and hate for Israel... the self-proclaimed imams in our neighborhoods and our prisons who are promoting violence and terrorism."
Five months after the jihadist attacks in Paris that killed 17 people and shocked the world, the government will hold a series of meetings with top officials from the roughly five million-strong Muslim community, the largest in Europe.
The forum -- expected to be attended by between 120-150 Muslim community leaders as well as top government officials and ministers -- will debate security at religious sites, the image of Islam in the media and the building of new mosques.
Radicalization, however, will not be among the topics discussed during the half-day long gathering at France's interior ministry, which said putting it on the table would be "a bad message to the French and to the Muslim community."

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2015/06/15/hate-and-extremism-not-islam-french-pm.html

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:15 am

Belatucadros wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Let's not spread the false myth that just because you're anti-Zionist means you are anti-Semitic. Not if you want to be taken seriously. It's been pointed out on this board many times that even many Jews are justly against Zionism too.

But lets be honest many Muslims use the pretence of claiming to be against zionism and yet the rhetoric is antisemitism.
All of which is just you as per usual ignoring these important facts.
The question you should be asking is why in many Muslim countries do they preach antisemitism.

rep point for you sir, very well said...

by Fuzzy Zack Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:01 pm

The thread is not about anti Semitism in the various Muslim communities.

You can equally say that Zionists use anti Semitism as an excuse to occupy.

So let's not detract from atrocities Israel continues to commit. This will tell you why Israel is treated differently.

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:08 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:The thread is not about anti Semitism in the various Muslim communities.

You can equally say that Zionists use anti Semitism as an excuse to occupy.

So let's not detract from atrocities Israel continues to commit. This will tell you why Israel is treated differently.

Any settlements are wrong and based on a poor religious belief the land belongs to them. That I freely condemn as much as I do palestinian claims to one nation.
Attrocities? Are you having a bubble bath. More like you do not understand the terminology of combat where Hamas clearly endangers its own citizens and uses them as cannon fodder for its PR machine.
A group that does not build bomb shelters, that commands people to stay after being warned by the IDF and places weapons within civillian areas is ensuring maximum civillian casulaities. The clue as to who they want more than anyone to die is children based on being caught out with weapons placed in schools.
Yeah if anyone is committing attrocities to its own people it is Hamas, but hey you constantly ignore facts and ignore the fact many Muslims are indeed creating hate towards Jews because of Israel.

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:08 pm

Also people can see for themselves the evidence:

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t10094-new-congressional-resolution-based-on-pmw-documentation#194928

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:12 pm

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:15 pm

by eddie Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:49 pm

Didge are you move on the side of the Jews and if so, why?

(I am merely interested as I couldn't decide on a "side" if I had to??)

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:56 pm

eddie wrote:Didge are you move on the side of the Jews and if so, why?

(I am merely interested as I couldn't decide on a "side" if I had to??)

I have no side Eddie, I just want both nations to recognise each other and live in peace.
The problems stem from religious babble on both sides.
I believe in genuine criticism of Israel, but their is an industry out their that have no care for a two state solution and only want one where israel ceases to exist. It at every turn tries to demonize Israel and ignores the hate from Hamas and Fatah. I do not deny there is also extremist Zionists who seek to continue a conflict and who are racist and it is the people of both nations that need to reconcille if there is ever to be peace.
So I do not really have a side, I just defend Israel from lies and fabrications which seek to deligitimize them as a nation. You have claims to Nazism and Aparthied which are just disgusting to claim, even more so when they people claiming this are in general antisemitic themselves.
Again there is those wrong on the Israel side and they do not need a more Liberal Governement, but many do not want them to exist, so I tend to argue more from the israel point of view and will as seen condemn when they do wrong.

I also think Israel is unfairly treated compared to every other nation as seen by the above article.

by eddie Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:00 pm

Ok,thanks
I'm a little bit confused sometimes as to who's "right" and who's "wrong"!

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:05 pm

eddie wrote:Ok,thanks
I'm a little bit confused sometimes as to who's "right" and who's "wrong"!

Both can be right and wrong, its seeing what is right and wrong.
Like I say Hamas is an extremist terrorist group that cares so little for its citizens and like I say this can easily be proved bv the fact it does not build bomb shelters for its civillians, even though they certainly build tunnels to smuggle weapons and attack Israel. They command people to stay put after being warned by the IDF to leave, which is hamas thus ensuring civillians die through an idiotic religious belief called Martyrdom. They place weaponary within civillian areas and to me they do all this to ensure as maximum as possible casulties in a conflict. A ceasefire was offered within a week, which Israel excepted and hamas refused and you have to ask why, when they started the last conflict? Because there was not enough civillian casulaties by then, they waited until there was enough to gain world sympathy. That means they are happy to loow women and children to die to gain PR. I find that disgusting on every level. Do not get me wrong there is also crimes committed by Israel in times of war and the settlements are completely wrong, of that I have no doubt. But just imagine if israel placed civillians like Hamas does to protect its weaponary? That it had no dome defense and no bomb shelters? What would the civillian casualty figures be on the Israeli side?

by eddie Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:09 pm

Belatucadros wrote:
eddie wrote:Ok,thanks
I'm a little bit confused sometimes as to who's "right" and who's "wrong"!

Both can be right and wrong, its seeing what is right and wrong.
Like I say Hamas is an extremist terrorist group that cares so little for its citizens and like I say this can easily be proved bv the fact it does not build bomb shelters for its civillians, even though they certainly build tunnels to smuggle weapons and attack Israel. They command people to stay put after being warned by the IDF to leave, which is hamas thus ensuring civillians die through an idiotic religious belief called Martyrdom. They place weaponary within civillian areas and to me they do all this to ensure as maximum as possible casulties in a conflict. A ceasefire was offered within a week, which Israel excepted and hamas refused and you have to ask why, when they started the last conflict? Because there was not enough civillian casulaties by then, they waited until there was enough to gain world sympathy. I find that disgusting on every level. Do not get me wrong there is also come crimes committed by Israel in times of war, of that I have no doubt, but just imagine if israel place civillians like Hamas does to protect its weaponary? That it had no dome defense and no bomb shelters? What would the casualty figures be on the Israeli side?

Yes I read that and was full of disbelief!
I'm probably wrong but I always felt that Hamas cared little for anything and anyone apart from "winning" whereas Isreal seemed more "humane"

I don't get involved in the debates or news stories on here about this topic, relieved

as my knowledge is so limited and I always felt it was six to knee and half a dozen of the other as it were...

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:12 pm

eddie wrote:
Belatucadros wrote:

Both can be right and wrong, its seeing what is right and wrong.
Like I say Hamas is an extremist terrorist group that cares so little for its citizens and like I say this can easily be proved bv the fact it does not build bomb shelters for its civillians, even though they certainly build tunnels to smuggle weapons and attack Israel. They command people to stay put after being warned by the IDF to leave, which is hamas thus ensuring civillians die through an idiotic religious belief called Martyrdom. They place weaponary within civillian areas and to me they do all this to ensure as maximum as possible casulties in a conflict. A ceasefire was offered within a week, which Israel excepted and hamas refused and you have to ask why, when they started the last conflict? Because there was not enough civillian casulaties by then, they waited until there was enough to gain world sympathy. I find that disgusting on every level. Do not get me wrong there is also come crimes committed by Israel in times of war, of that I have no doubt, but just imagine if israel place civillians like Hamas does to protect its weaponary? That it had no dome defense and no bomb shelters? What would the casualty figures be on the Israeli side?

Yes I read that and was full of disbelief!
I'm probably wrong but I always felt that Hamas cared little for anything and anyone apart from "winning" whereas Isreal seemed more "humane"

I don't get involved in the debates or news stories on here about this topic, as my knowledge is so limited and I always felt it was six to knee and half a dozen of the other as it were...

As I say Hamas with its charter has vowed to wipe Israel out, but things are changing, they are now concerned over ISIS gaining ground in Gaza. Though its a simple test here on who cares for their civillians and clearly the Israelis care far more as the facts speak for themselves.

Best not to get involved as it can be very heated Eddie.

x

by eddie Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:14 pm

Lol I don't know enough to get involved didge and would annoy everyone with constant questions!

Also, in a war, there are no winners. Only greed and dead people.

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:18 pm

eddie wrote:Lol I don't know enough to get involved didge and would annoy everyone with constant questions!

Also, in a war, there are no winners. Only greed and dead people.

Indeed there is no winners Eddie of that I agree but it reminds me of a great quote once said:

Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.

This is very apt in the case of Hamas, because a group that does not attempt to protect its citizens, clearly hates Israel more than it loves its own children.

Nothing wrong with questions being asked and always good to others perspectives on this.

by eddie Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:20 pm

That's good quote x

by Fuzzy Zack Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:51 pm

Shifting the blame on the powerless is a trick that allows Zionism to thrive. This view is changing as this trick becomes transparent.

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:56 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Shifting the blame on the powerless is a trick that allows Zionism to thrive. This view is changing as this trick becomes transparent.

Again this is what terrorist apologists like you do, deny the facts.
The belief in Zionism to own lands is wrong, as our the settlements, but many Jews in the past legally bought land there and have a right to self determination.
So you are not debating a Zionist so that poor trick will not work either.
i speak in facts where you ignore a terrorist group that does nothing to protect its citizens, it in fact ensures many die as cannon fodder for its PR machine and you are silent on this.
That is appalling.
I do not deny israel commits wrongs and its possible they have committed war crimes which I condemn also, but again imagine Israel never had a dome defense or built bomb shelters, the casulaties on the Israeli side would be huge.
That proves more than anything Hamas protects its weapons with civillians and calls for them to die through the idiotic belief of martyrdom.
It would help if you stop avoiding the facts.

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:58 pm

I will add, Israel left Gaza and straight away they started to attack Israel in 2005, so please spare me the bull about powerless. Hamas have the choice in their hands and choose to not protect its citizens and ensure many die so they can gain world sympathy.
That is why they refused the first ceasefire, not enough had died yet for their PR machine.

Laters

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:01 pm

eddie wrote:
Belatucadros wrote:

Both can be right and wrong, its seeing what is right and wrong.
Like I say Hamas is an extremist terrorist group that cares so little for its citizens and like I say this can easily be proved bv the fact it does not build bomb shelters for its civillians, even though they certainly build tunnels to smuggle weapons and attack Israel. They command people to stay put after being warned by the IDF to leave, which is hamas thus ensuring civillians die through an idiotic religious belief called Martyrdom. They place weaponary within civillian areas and to me they do all this to ensure as maximum as possible casulties in a conflict. A ceasefire was offered within a week, which Israel excepted and hamas refused and you have to ask why, when they started the last conflict? Because there was not enough civillian casulaties by then, they waited until there was enough to gain world sympathy. I find that disgusting on every level. Do not get me wrong there is also come crimes committed by Israel in times of war, of that I have no doubt, but just imagine if israel place civillians like Hamas does to protect its weaponary? That it had no dome defense and no bomb shelters? What would the casualty figures be on the Israeli side?

Yes I read that and was full of disbelief!
I'm probably wrong but I always felt that Hamas cared little for anything and anyone apart from "winning" whereas Isreal seemed more "humane"

I don't get involved in the debates or news stories on here about this topic, as my knowledge is so limited and I always felt it was six to knee and half a dozen of the other as it were...

Crying out loud Eddie, have you not heard of the Gaza blockade? That will be the blockade that stops building materials from going into Gaza? You do realise that you need particular building materials to build bomb shelters, materials that they are not allowed. What about the fact that Israel has stopped farmers farming near the border means they have lost so much of their farmland they can't be asked to give up anymore. Or the fact that it would be impossible in the most densely populated area in the world, for bomb shelters to be built for the population. Didge can waffle all he wants, Gaza is blockaded and can't even get the building materials to rebuild what has been destroyed, let alone bomb shelters. Israel humane? Are you nuts? So humane it's people sit on a mountain top with a picnic and cheer at Palestinians being blown to pieces.

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:07 pm

Belatucadros wrote:I will add, Israel left Gaza and straight away they started to attack Israel in 2005, so please spare me the bull about powerless. Hamas have the choice in their hands and choose to not protect its citizens and ensure many die so they can gain world sympathy.
That is why they refused the first ceasefire, not enough had died yet for their PR machine.

Laters

Oh do shut up, you have no understanding of the situation and just parrot Israeli propaganda sites. Occupied people are allowed to defend themselves and if you think that Gaza is free you are out of your tiny tree, and bloody hell is it tiny. They withdrew their troops, but would still come over the border and shoot farmers in their fields, shoot fishermen fishing, take pot shots from control towers, blockade essential goods, etc etc etc, which is another form of war.

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:07 pm

the media reporting was only ever bothered about Gaza and nothing about Israel .

I would love to see peace but wanting Israel wiped out is just hateful .

by Fuzzy Zack Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:10 pm

Belatucadros wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:Shifting the blame on the powerless is a trick that allows Zionism to thrive. This view is changing as this trick becomes transparent.

Again this is what terrorist apologists like you do, deny the facts.
The belief in Zionism to own lands is wrong, as our the settlements, but many Jews in the past legally bought land there and have a right to self determination.
So you are not debating a Zionist so that poor trick will not work either.
i speak in facts where you ignore a terrorist group that does nothing to protect its citizens, it in fact ensures many die as cannon fodder for its PR machine and you are silent on this.
That is appalling.
I do not deny israel commits wrongs and its possible they have committed war crimes which I condemn also, but again imagine Israel never had a dome defense or built bomb shelters, the casulaties on the Israeli side would be huge.
That proves more than anything Hamas protects its weapons with civillians and calls for them to die through the idiotic belief of martyrdom.
It would help if you stop avoiding the facts.

Didge: let's not pretend you know any facts. You are merely a repeater of what other people claim are facts. Get that straight.

@ Eddie - the fact that Didge got so worked up on my little statement and starts throwing around accusations of being an apologist, should tell you something.

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:20 pm

so why should Israel be wiped out , would we all sit here and let England be wiped out ?

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:52 pm

risingsun wrote:
Belatucadros wrote:I will add, Israel left Gaza and straight away they started to attack Israel in 2005, so please spare me the bull about powerless. Hamas have the choice in their hands and choose to not protect its citizens and ensure many die so they can gain world sympathy.
That is why they refused the first ceasefire, not enough had died yet for their PR machine.

Laters

Oh do shut up, you have no understanding of the situation and just parrot Israeli propaganda sites. Occupied people are allowed to defend themselves and if you think that Gaza is free you are out of your tiny tree, and bloody hell is it tiny. They withdrew their troops, but would still come over the border and shoot farmers in their fields, shoot fishermen fishing, take pot shots from control towers, blockade essential goods, etc etc etc, which is another form of war.

So again sassy now plays the abusive card, the denial card, the ignorance card in her repertoire of deflections where she is unable to counter the points.

Answer the points made, not offer woeful excuses:

Like I say Hamas is an extremist terrorist group that cares so little for its citizens and like I say this can easily be proved bb the fact it does not build bomb shelters for its civilians, even though they certainly build tunnels to smuggle weapons and attack Israel. They command people to stay put after being warned by the IDF to leave, which is Hamas thus ensuring civilians die through an idiotic religious belief called Martyrdom. They place weaponry within civilian areas and to me they do all this to ensure as maximum as possible casualties in a conflict. A ceasefire was offered within a week, which Israel excepted and Hamas refused and you have to ask why, when they started the last conflict? Because there was not enough civilian casualties by then, they waited until there was enough to gain world sympathy. I find that disgusting on every level. Do not get me wrong there is also come crimes committed by Israel in times of war, of that I have no doubt, but just imagine if Israel place civilians like Hamas does to protect its weaponry? That it had no dome defense and no bomb shelters? What would the casualty figures be on the Israeli side?

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:55 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Belatucadros wrote:

Again this is what terrorist apologists like you do, deny the facts.
The belief in Zionism to own lands is wrong, as our the settlements, but many Jews in the past legally bought land there and have a right to self determination.
So you are not debating a Zionist so that poor trick will not work either.
i speak in facts where you ignore a terrorist group that does nothing to protect its citizens, it in fact ensures many die as cannon fodder for its PR machine and you are silent on this.
That is appalling.
I do not deny israel commits wrongs and its possible they have committed war crimes which I condemn also, but again imagine Israel never had a dome defense or built bomb shelters, the casulaties on the Israeli side would be huge.
That proves more than anything Hamas protects its weapons with civillians and calls for them to die through the idiotic belief of martyrdom.
It would help if you stop avoiding the facts.

Didge: let's not pretend you know any facts. You are merely a repeater of what other people claim are facts. Get that straight.

@ Eddie - the fact that Didge got so worked up on my little statement and starts throwing around accusations of being an apologist, should tell you something.

So Zack plays the emotive card, the denial card also, refuses to answer points card in his repertoire of deflections where he is unable to counter the points.

Like I say Hamas is an extremist terrorist group that cares so little for its citizens and like I say this can easily be proved bb the fact it does not build bomb shelters for its civilians, even though they certainly build tunnels to smuggle weapons and attack Israel. They command people to stay put after being warned by the IDF to leave, which is Hamas thus ensuring civilians die through an idiotic religious belief called Martyrdom. They place weaponry within civilian areas and to me they do all this to ensure as maximum as possible casualties in a conflict. A ceasefire was offered within a week, which Israel excepted and Hamas refused and you have to ask why, when they started the last conflict? Because there was not enough civilian casualties by then, they waited until there was enough to gain world sympathy. I find that disgusting on every level. Do not get me wrong there is also come crimes committed by Israel in times of war, of that I have no doubt, but just imagine if Israel place civilians like Hamas does to protect its weaponry? That it had no dome defense and no bomb shelters? What would the casualty figures be on the Israeli side?

@Eddie, I said to see others points of perspectives on this and what do they do?
Exactly what they do about Israel.
Try to Demonize the poster.
Try to Delegitimize the Poster and offer the worst double standards.
So at least I ask for you to see their side, but unfortunately their side is to shout down opposing views.
All you need to know about a conflict is based their for you to see yourself.

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:03 pm

risingsun wrote:
eddie wrote:

Yes I read that and was full of disbelief!
I'm probably wrong but I always felt that Hamas cared little for anything and anyone apart from "winning" whereas Isreal seemed more "humane"

I don't get involved in the debates or news stories on here about this topic, as my knowledge is so limited and I always felt it was six to knee and half a dozen of the other as it were...

Crying out loud Eddie, have you not heard of the Gaza blockade? That will be the blockade that stops building materials from going into Gaza? You do realise that you need particular building materials to build bomb shelters, materials that they are not allowed. What about the fact that Israel has stopped farmers farming near the border means they have lost so much of their farmland they can't be asked to give up anymore. Or the fact that it would be impossible in the most densely populated area in the world, for bomb shelters to be built for the population. Didge can waffle all he wants, Gaza is blockaded and can't even get the building materials to rebuild what has been destroyed, let alone bomb shelters. Israel humane? Are you nuts? So humane it's people sit on a mountain top with a picnic and cheer at Palestinians being blown to pieces.

Yes lets talk about the blockade sassy shall we, which would have never have ever been needed if not for Hamas. Lets face some home truths here where after Israel left Gaza and removed its settlements, what did Hamas do? Attack Israel. Hamas is given funds and plenty of them and what do they do with these funds Sassy? That is right buy weapons to attack Israel and build Tunnels to attack. That is hardly the peaceful actions and intentions of a group who waste money to commit more terrorism and again have no care for its citizens. Explain why they need weapons to attack Israel over infrastructure for the citizens of Gaza?

So why is the money being wasted on weapons Sassy?

The World Bank, in its dataset titled "Net Official Development Assistance and Official Aid Received (current US$)," available to download from data.worldbank.org (accessed May 8, 2015), provided the following information:

"Net official development assistance (ODA) consists of disbursements of loans made on concessional terms (net of repayments of principal) and grants by official agencies of the members of the Development Assistance Committee (DAC), by multilateral institutions, and by non-DAC countries to promote economic development and welfare in countries and territories in the DAC list of ODA recipients. It includes loans with a grant element of at least 25 percent (calculated at a rate of discount of 10 percent)… Official aid is provided under terms and conditions similar to those for ODA... The collection of data on official aid and other resource flows… ended with 2004 data.

Country Name: West Bank and Gaza
Country Code: PSE
Indicator Name: Net official development assistance and official aid received (current US$)

1993: 178,740,000
1994: 471,980,000
1995: 514,110,000
1996: 552,410,000
1997: 613,030,000
1998: 612,570,000
1999: 580,550,000

2000: 684,500,000
2001: 997,590,000
2002: 971,610,000
2003: 1,041,840,000
2004: 1,160,840,000
2005: 1,015,710,000
2006: 1,360,250,000

2007: 1,717,110,000
2008: 2,470,080,000
2009: 2,826,680,000
2010: 2,518,700,000
2011: 2,441,970,000
2012: 2,011,430,000
2013: 2,610,410,000."

http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000592

Also:

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2015/04/29/Israel-lets-14-000-tons-of-building-material-into-Gaza-.html

Sassy does not like facts do you?

by eddie Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:00 pm

risingsun wrote:
eddie wrote:
Belatucadros wrote:

Both can be right and wrong, its seeing what is right and wrong.
Like I say Hamas is an extremist terrorist group that cares so little for its citizens and like I say this can easily be proved bv the fact it does not build bomb shelters for its civillians, even though they certainly build tunnels to smuggle weapons and attack Israel. They command people to stay put after being warned by the IDF to leave, which is hamas thus ensuring civillians die through an idiotic religious belief called Martyrdom. They place weaponary within civillian areas and to me they do all this to ensure as maximum as possible casulties in a conflict. A ceasefire was offered within a week, which Israel excepted and hamas refused and you have to ask why, when they started the last conflict? Because there was not enough civillian casulaties by then, they waited until there was enough to gain world sympathy. I find that disgusting on every level. Do not get me wrong there is also come crimes committed by Israel in times of war, of that I have no doubt, but just imagine if israel place civillians like Hamas does to protect its weaponary? That it had no dome defense and no bomb shelters? What would the casualty figures be on the Israeli side?

Yes I read that and was full of disbelief!
I'm probably wrong but I always felt that Hamas cared little for anything and anyone apart from "winning" whereas Isreal seemed more "humane"

I don't get involved in the debates or news stories on here about this topic, as my knowledge is so limited and I always felt it was six to knee and half a dozen of the other as it were...

Crying out loud Eddie, have you not heard of the Gaza blockade? That will be the blockade that stops building materials from going into Gaza? You do realise that you need particular building materials to build bomb shelters, materials that they are not allowed. What about the fact that Israel has stopped farmers farming near the border means they have lost so much of their farmland they can't be asked to give up anymore. Or the fact that it would be impossible in the most densely populated area in the world, for bomb shelters to be built for the population. Didge can waffle all he wants, Gaza is blockaded and can't even get the building materials to rebuild what has been destroyed, let alone bomb shelters. Israel humane? Are you nuts? So humane it's people sit on a mountain top with a picnic and cheer at Palestinians being blown to pieces.

Okay okay! I did say I was a bit mixed up and I did also say it's six to one and half a dozen of the other!
I only asked why didge seemed to err more on the side of Israel (he has said there are good and bad in both sides to be fair)

Why do you think it's more an "Israel is the baddie" situation then?

by eddie Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:05 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:so why should Israel be wiped out , would we all sit here and let England be wiped out ?

I don't think anyone is saying that Vod

by Lone Wolf Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:08 pm

Belatucadros wrote:
It's appealling to see how Israel is treated by a totally different standard than other countries in the international system. Of course, Israel deserves scrutiny, as does every other nation. But it also merits equal treatment -- nothing more, nothing less.
.......................................
..................................
.............................
........................
..................
.............
........
....
..
.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-harris/ten-ways-israel-is-treate_b_7579568.html

Ten Ways Israel Is Treated Differently 2023022481

by Fuzzy Zack Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:15 pm

Didge - people like you are excusing ethnic cleansing and enabling Israel to play the victim card.

The fact that most people are waking up to that nightmare is why people like you are in such an emotive and ranting state.

by Guest Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:13 am

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Didge - people like you are excusing ethnic cleansing and enabling Israel to play the victim card.

The fact that most people are waking up to that nightmare is why people like you are in such an emotive and ranting state.

Both sides play the victim card but its placing things into context where again the Israelis are treated very different to other nations, which is very much double standards. A group like Hamas plays the worst victim card going, by ensuring Palestinians even more so children are killed by placing them in harms way, of which people are waking up to.
Show me anywhere that I have excused the Israeli settlements?
I never have and at no point do you make any such view about the 800,000 Jews that were ethnically cleansed from Arab nations, or the 1 million Lebanese caused by the Palestinians in the Lebanese Civil war. I do not excuse anything, yet we are seeing you say nothing in regards to Hamas. That is being an apologist on every level to a group that hates Israel more than it cares for its citizens and you have it the wrong way round. Now people are waking up to the bullshit people peddled by some of the left and some Muslims who's intention is Jewish hatred. Again I support two state solution, you do not and thus deny Jewish self determination and all based on one reason, you badly believe like Zionists do that the land belongs to a side based on religious beliefs. The worst double standards is you ignore real ethnic cleansing going on with the lies of groups like ISIS, Boko Haram, the Taliban, Al Qaeda etc, all groups formed from Wahhabism. Muslims and non-Muslims alike are suffering far worse to Muslim extremism, and yet you march against Israel, one then questions rightly if this is more about a hatred of Jews than anything else and the rhetoric out there coming from Muslims and some of the left proves this to be the case. I have never claimed Israel is not without fault and again if you read I make it clear a liberal Government is needed for real peace
Again I constantly denounce the settlements which I might add are on disputed land, you though fail to condemn Hamas at every turn and again where I point out wrongs, you fail to condemn.
At no point have you addressed my points and why?
Because they are 100% true.

by Guest Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:18 am

Yep, they are treated very differently. They are given all the weapons and money they need to wipe out another country and are applauded for it. That's really different.

by Guest Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:15 am

risingsun wrote:Yep, they are treated very differently. They are given all the weapons and money they need to wipe out another country and are applauded for it. That's really different.

Yet again another absurd answer.
Yes they have the capability to wipe out Gaza a million times over and never have. In fact they have withdrawn from the Sinai, Gaza etc, only then to have terrorists attack them from Gaza. A group called Hamas has a charter which stipulates to wipe out the Jews and destroy Israel, all of which you ignore. That is why Israel is given weaponary, even though they did not need this as such in the first war the Arabs instigated because they did not except Israel and attacked them. You fail to factor many things. If like I said Gaza recognised Israel and stopped attacking them, then Israel would have to life the blockade. Hamas instead wishes to continue a conflict. This is obvious, because they seek to buy weapons to attack Israel and again nothing to protect its citizens, that proves this group is founded on a war footing not defense.
Even worse the Arab nations could have resolved the refugee issue, they chose instead to keep them refugees to continue the conflict. Germany had 12 million people displaced as a result of losing WW2, they lost vast chunks of land all because they were the aggressor. They have all since been resolved and within a few year. That is 12 million, yet I do not see the left champion a cause to have East Prussia returned to Germany and these millions displaced returned. The Palestinians and Arabs in 1948 were the aggresive nations which did not recognise Israel and its an utter disgrace the Arabs use the Refugees as pawns to continue a conflict when they could find them homes.

by Original Quill Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:30 pm

Didge, times have changed...at least with respect to Gaza and the occupied territories. Perhaps at one time the issue was the survival of Israel amid hostile people who threatened its annihilation.

But now Israel's announced motive is to quite frankly take the lands of those people and deprive them of a state. Now I agree that this a diametric change of positions, but it alters the question of who is the victim(?).

Things are much different from Hamas tossing missile into Israel, which I admit made the former the bad guy, to Netanyahu openly declaring that the Arab homelands are now real estate for Israeli high rises. I think it is fair to say that this makes Israel the bad guy today.

by Guest Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:02 pm

Original Quill wrote:Didge, times have changed...at least with respect to Gaza and the occupied territories. Perhaps at one time the issue was the survival of Israel amid hostile people who threatened its annihilation.

But now Israel's announced motive is to quite frankly take the lands of those people and deprive them of a state. Now I agree that this a diametric change of positions, but it alters the question of who is the victim(?).

Things are much different from Hamas tossing missile into Israel, which I admit made the former the bad guy, to Netanyahu openly declaring that the Arab homelands are now real estate for Israeli high rises. I think it is fair to say that this makes Israel the bad guy today.

I am afraid to say you are talking utter babble Quill.
I have no problem with the view Netanyahu has little intention of compromising with Fatah and Hamas and who can blame him really when each side at every turn deny the existence of Israel, teach children to hate the Jews and say openly that what is Israel will become Palestine, thus then having Israel cease to exist. It has never been about an independent West Bank or Gaza, that was never even part of the charter of the PLO in 1964, it has always been for the Palestinians the destruction of Israel by any means possible. Sorry but ignoring the fact that Hamas hates the Jews more than it loves its own citizens and deliberately uses them as cannon fodder for PR attention is confusing the issue completely. Like I say Israel needs to withdraw its settlements and have a Liberal Government but also Hamas and Fatah either have to ditch every view they have on Israel and become peaceful or they have to be replaced by movements willing for peace. You look the situation one sided and whilst the settlements are wrong and should be withdrawn, to say Israel is after real estate is completely false:

Ten Ways Israel Is Treated Differently Expanding_israel

Ten Ways Israel Is Treated Differently Expanding_israel

by Sponsored content