Let me be clear – Edward Snowden is a hero

Who needs the movies when life is full of such spectacular coincidences? On Thursday, David Anderson, the government’s reviewer of terrorism legislation, condemned snooping laws as “undemocratic, unnecessary and – in the long run – intolerable”, and called for a comprehensive new law incorporating judicial warrants – something for which my organisation, Liberty, has campaigned for many years. This thoughtful intervention brought new hope to us and others, for the rebuilding of public trust in surveillance conducted with respect for privacy, democracy and the law. And it was only possible thanks to Edward Snowden. Rumblings from No 10 immediately betrayed they were less than happy with many of Anderson’s recommendations – particularly his call for judicial oversight. And three days later, the empire strikes back! An exclusive story in the Sunday Times saying that MI6 “is believed” to have pulled out spies because Russia and China decoded Snowden’s files. The NSA whistleblower is now a man with “blood on his hands” according to one anonymous “senior Home Office official”.

Low on facts, high on assertions, this flimsy but impeccably timed story gives us a clear idea of where government spin will go in the coming weeks. It uses scare tactics to steer the debate away from Anderson’s considered recommendations – and starts setting the stage for the home secretary’s new investigatory powers bill. In his report, Anderson clearly states no operational case had yet been made for the snooper’s charter. So it is easy to see why the government isn’t keen on people paying too close attention to it.

But then, when it comes to responding to criticism, the approach of the Conservative leadership has been the same for some time: shut down all debate by branding Snowden – or anyone else who dares question the security agencies – as an enemy of the state and an apologist for terror.

It’s a technique we at Liberty have felt the full force of. In March, the discredited, and now largely retired, intelligence and security committee produced a report into the legal framework covering surveillance. This was the same toothless committee that failed to spot the dodgy dossier, expose extraordinary rendition or pick up on the sheer scale of blanket intrusion outside of the law – which Snowden did a great public service in revealing.

Instead of properly scrutinising the agencies’ activities, the ISC lashed out against campaigners, shamelessly misrepresenting us as considering terrorism a price worth paying for our airy-fairy values. Valid concerns of campaigners and parliamentarians were buried under a mound of toxic spin.

The hyperbole that followed yesterday’s story was astonishing – Professor Anthony Glees reportedly branded Snowden “a villain of the first order” – Darth Vader eat your heart out.

So let me be completely clear: Edward Snowden is a hero. Saying so does not make me an apologist for terror – it makes me a firm believer in democracy and the rule of law. Whether you are with or against Liberty in the debate about proportionate surveillance, Anderson must be right to say that the people and our representatives should know about capabilities and practices built and conducted in our name.

For years, UK and US governments broke the law. For years, they hid the sheer scale of their spying practices not just from the British public, but from parliament. Without Snowden – and the legal challenges by Liberty and other campaigners that followed – we wouldn’t have a clue what they were up to.

A debate about surveillance powers in the internet age is not best advanced by that all-pervading slogan: “nothing to hide, nothing to fear.” We cannot have a risk-free society, and it is too much to expect of the agencies or the law to deliver it. But surely we can have an open and balanced discussion about how we adapt to new threats while safeguarding the intimacy and dignity rightly craved by human beings.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/14/edward-snowden-hero-government-scare-tactics

If anyone cannot see why the Government has come out with this load of waffle, they want their brains testing. If in doubt and someone has come out against what the Government wants - they reach for the propaganda and the sheep will swallow it and ask for more.

Even Conservative MPs think it is dodgy:

Privacy campaigners questioned the timing of the report, coming days after a 373-page report by the independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, David Anderson QC, which was commissioned by David Cameron. Anderson was highly critical of the existing system of oversight of the surveillance agencies and set out a series of recommendations for reform.

A new surveillance bill, scheduled for the autumn, is expected to be the subject of fierce debate.

Responding to the Sunday Times, David Davis, the Conservative MP who is one of the leading campaigners for privacy, said: “We have to treat all of these things with a pinch of salt.” He said the use of an anonymous source to create scare stories was a typical tactic and the timing was comfortable for the government.

“You can see they have been made nervous by Anderson. We have not been given any facts, just assertions,” he said.

Anderson recommended that approval of surveillance warrants be shifted from the home and foreign secretaries to a new judicial body made up of serving and retired judges, which Davis supports but towards which the government appears to be lukewarm.

Davis said there was little point in raising the Sunday Times allegations in the Commons as the government would say it does not comment on intelligence matters. Davis’s prediction was prescient. A Downing Street spokeswoman said: “We don’t comment on leaks.” The intelligence agencies said: “Our longstanding policy is not to comment on intelligence matters.”

But Eric King, the deputy director of Privacy International, echoed Davis, saying: “Looking at the Sunday Times, it asks more questions than it answers.” He added that if Downing Street and the Home Office believed that Russia and China had gained access to the Snowden documents, then why was the government not putting this out through official channels.

He added: “Given Snowden is facing espionage charges in the US, you would have thought the British government would have provided them with this information.”

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/14/russia-and-china-broke-into-snowden-files-to-identify-british-and-us-spies

Take a gun a to his head and blow his brains out,
He is no hero and is scum
I will jump for joy if someone assassinates this idiot.
Happy days.

Belatucadros wrote:Take a gun a to his head and blow his brains out,
He is no hero and is scum
I will jump for joy if someone assassinates this idiot.
Happy days.

lol hate fulled scum bag getting his rocks off over killing a brave man.
A Coward sucks the cock of those that rape his children

Blind follower, it is men like you that allow all the evil to occur if you were in Germany in the 30 you would vote Hitler if you were in Spain in 1700's you'd be pro burning witches and telling everyone that the inquisition is Good Justice.
You are the stupidity that allows evil to flourish

veya_victaous wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:Take a gun a to his head and blow his brains out,
He is no hero and is scum
I will jump for joy if someone assassinates this idiot.
Happy days.

lol hate fulled scum bag getting his rocks off over killing a brave man.
A Coward sucks the cock of those that rape his children

Blind follower, it is men like you that allow all the evil to occur if you were in Germany in the 30 you would vote Hitler if you were in Spain in 1700's you'd be pro burning witches and telling everyone that the inquisition is Good Justice.
You are the stupidity that allows evil to flourish

Brave?


    


    


    


    


Execute the twat as a traitor, he is a traitor and has now placed the west in a disastrous position.
All because some pathetic wet lefties need to know what toilet roll Obama uses to wipe his arse with
This is why you are on ignore, because you claim I would vote for Hitler.
Seriously, I would say take a gun to your own head, but you would miss your brains by a mile because they are so small. Seriously go a see medical advice you complete and utter loon

would you dare do what he did
No because you are not brave.

And seriously the NSA is not about "All because some pathetic wet lefties need to know what toilet roll Obama uses to wipe his arse with" again like just about everything you post You simple DO NOT EVEN UNDERSTAND what the adult are talking about.
the mere fact that you make that statement again just highlight that you have no clue, because no one is asking for Obama's information No one is Spying on presidents, it is not that we want to know, it is that HE has no right to know!
And NO HE DOES not it is not a dictatorship, the fact you support this totalitarian scheme shows that hey if they advertise it to you well (like Hitler did) and you be all for burning jews.
You want to kill a man for nothing but the TRUTH, when your enemy is the TRUTH you are in the wrong.

He is a complete coward, and places the security of people as last compared to him being a selfish brat out to make money and fame.
He needs to be executed as a traitor.
Yet more invented bullshit as to what I support. This is why you are on ignore, because you invent pure bullshit  about people, which clearly backs my point you are an unhinged loon. It does not mean I back any Totalitarian system. Just the fact he is a traitor and should be executed. Intelligence services have protected people best by them not knowing or needing to now what goes on to protect them. Again such a strategy you backplaces a nation on a weak footing against other aggressive nations
Now jog the fuck on, you unhinged loon, as I say I do not pander to idiots like you.

lol coward thinks there is a more aggressive nation than the USA

that's so funny...

Do you support what Snowden released? is he a hero?
NO, you say he is a traitor, well that implies you support the idea that the information he released should be hidden, as it clearly details a totalitarian gov't scheme YES you do support totalitarianism!
THANK YOU for demonstrating that you would in fact vote for Hitler if the Advertised to you right.

What Snowden and Assange did was inform people about exactly how much data governments, particularly the U.S. government, were collecting about private individuals and cause a lot of people to wonder what they needed with all of it.

Does the government have an interest in preventing terrorist attacks? Of course it does, and it should. But does the government need to have access to everyone's phone and e-mail records in order to do that?

We in the U.S. finally decided it does not, and we've finally closed the door on much of the Bush era's toxic paranoia.

I won't call either of them heroes, because I no longer really think in terms of heroes or villains, but what Assange and Snowden did was more good than harm, I think. America has abandoned enough of what it has always professed to stand for, and as an American, it's gratifying for me to see it claim a small part of that back.

Ben_Reilly wrote:What Snowden and Assange did was inform people about exactly how much data governments, particularly the U.S. government, were collecting about private individuals and cause a lot of people to wonder what they needed with all of it.

Does the government have an interest in preventing terrorist attacks? Of course it does, and it should. But does the government need to have access to everyone's phone and e-mail records in order to do that?

We in the U.S. finally decided it does not, and we've finally closed the door on much of the Bush era's toxic paranoia.

I won't call either of them heroes, because I no longer really think in terms of heroes or villains, but what Assange and Snowden did was more good than harm, I think. America has abandoned enough of what it has always professed to stand for, and as an American, it's gratifying for me to see it claim a small part of that back.

Yes all well and good in informing people but the too vast amounts of intelligence which has now set back the US intelligence service and the British years through such negligence. They did far more harm than good and both are just wannabe's in the making. One is a rape suspect who hides from having to face trial over these allegations. As to access to information, what makes people think itis private when they use a facility that the Government allows to run and function. People mistakenly believe they have this right, when you look at this, they do not. What have people to fear on this? Nothing unless their is criminality wanting to be kept hidden.

Ben_Reilly wrote:What Snowden and Assange did was inform people about exactly how much data governments, particularly the U.S. government, were collecting about private individuals and cause a lot of people to wonder what they needed with all of it.

Does the government have an interest in preventing terrorist attacks? Of course it does, and it should. But does the government need to have access to everyone's phone and e-mail records in order to do that?

We in the U.S. finally decided it does not, and we've finally closed the door on much of the Bush era's toxic paranoia.

I won't call either of them heroes, because I no longer really think in terms of heroes or villains, but what Assange and Snowden did was more good than harm, I think. America has abandoned enough of what it has always professed to stand for, and as an American, it's gratifying for me to see it claim a small part of that back.

I agree and i think Snowden was brave for he did .

World | Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:42am EDT
Related: World, Norway
Norwegian court rejects Edward Snowden lawsuit on free passage
Former U.S. spy contractor Edward Snowden has failed in a legal bid to win guarantees from Norway that it would not extradite him to the United States if he went there to receive a free speech award, a Norwegian court said on Monday.
Snowden's law firm said in April he would take the state to court to secure free passage to the Nordic country. The United States has filed espionage charges against him for leaking details of extensive U.S. surveillance programs.

"Oslo District Court has decided that the lawsuit from Edward Snowden against the State regarding extradition, should be dismissed," the court said in a statement.

Snowden was granted asylum in Russia, which borders Norway, in 2013. He had been invited to Norway to receive a freedom of speech award from the local branch of writers' group PEN International, but worried that he would be handed over to the United States, his lawyers have said.

NATO member Norway has close diplomatic ties with the United States. The Justice Ministry has declined to comment on the case. leaving it to the court to decide.

The Oslo court said the country's extradition laws only apply to people who are already in the country, and that the justice ministry could not be compelled to issue a decision on whether or not to extradite someone who lives abroad.

The decision is expected to be appealed within days, one of the lawyers involved in the case told Reuters.

"We believe the court is being too formalistic," said Jon Wessel-Aas, representing three Norwegian press organizations acting as third-party interveners supporting Snowden's lawsuit. He acknowledged that there was no U.S. extradition request right now, but argued Washington was sure to make one if Snowden visited the country.

As part of the verdict, Snowden was also ordered to pay 7,000 Norwegian crowns ($823.64) to the government to cover legal expenses.

($1 = 8.4989 Norwegian crowns)
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-snowden-norway-idUSKCN0ZD11Y

Well - well, the whiner will most likely appeal this decision and that's well within his legal right ...but go - go receive you Freedom of Peace for stealing files & documents from the very sub contractor you'd signed onto to/swore the company oath to protect those confidential file & documents that you stole ...ya, PLEAAAAASE go travel to Norway.

I want you sorry ass to hauled back to the USA and stand trail ...just as any other cretin that has done what you did! 

Snowdon is a traitor which ever way you look at it, he gave up a countries secrets to a foreign power. From what I read he could have been responsible for a few "missing" agents.

Quite agree with you full heartedly Nicko, and I was so hoping that this cretin would allow his huge EGO to be lured into a lull and just flying to Norway to receive his glorified award.  But, dang it ...the rat bastard isn't stupid - he's a weasel but he's not stupid!

sassy wrote:Who needs the movies when life is full of such spectacular coincidences? On Thursday, David Anderson, the government’s reviewer of terrorism legislation, condemned snooping laws as “undemocratic, unnecessary and – in the long run – intolerable”, and called for a comprehensive new law incorporating judicial warrants – something for which my organisation, Liberty, has campaigned for many years. This thoughtful intervention brought new hope to us and others, for the rebuilding of public trust in surveillance conducted with respect for privacy, democracy and the law. And it was only possible thanks to Edward Snowden. Rumblings from No 10 immediately betrayed they were less than happy with many of Anderson’s recommendations – particularly his call for judicial oversight. And three days later, the empire strikes back! An exclusive story in the Sunday Times saying that MI6 “is believed” to have pulled out spies because Russia and China decoded Snowden’s files. The NSA whistleblower is now a man with “blood on his hands” according to one anonymous “senior Home Office official”.

Low on facts, high on assertions, this flimsy but impeccably timed story gives us a clear idea of where government spin will go in the coming weeks. It uses scare tactics to steer the debate away from Anderson’s considered recommendations – and starts setting the stage for the home secretary’s new investigatory powers bill. In his report, Anderson clearly states no operational case had yet been made for the snooper’s charter. So it is easy to see why the government isn’t keen on people paying too close attention to it.

But then, when it comes to responding to criticism, the approach of the Conservative leadership has been the same for some time: shut down all debate by branding Snowden – or anyone else who dares question the security agencies – as an enemy of the state and an apologist for terror.

It’s a technique we at Liberty have felt the full force of. In March, the discredited, and now largely retired, intelligence and security committee produced a report into the legal framework covering surveillance. This was the same toothless committee that failed to spot the dodgy dossier, expose extraordinary rendition or pick up on the sheer scale of blanket intrusion outside of the law – which Snowden did a great public service in revealing.

Instead of properly scrutinising the agencies’ activities, the ISC lashed out against campaigners, shamelessly misrepresenting us as considering terrorism a price worth paying for our airy-fairy values. Valid concerns of campaigners and parliamentarians were buried under a mound of toxic spin.

The hyperbole that followed yesterday’s story was astonishing – Professor Anthony Glees reportedly branded Snowden “a villain of the first order” – Darth Vader eat your heart out.

So let me be completely clear: Edward Snowden is a hero. Saying so does not make me an apologist for terror – it makes me a firm believer in democracy and the rule of law. Whether you are with or against Liberty in the debate about proportionate surveillance, Anderson must be right to say that the people and our representatives should know about capabilities and practices built and conducted in our name.

For years, UK and US governments broke the law. For years, they hid the sheer scale of their spying practices not just from the British public, but from parliament. Without Snowden – and the legal challenges by Liberty and other campaigners that followed – we wouldn’t have a clue what they were up to.

A debate about surveillance powers in the internet age is not best advanced by that all-pervading slogan: “nothing to hide, nothing to fear.” We cannot have a risk-free society, and it is too much to expect of the agencies or the law to deliver it. But surely we can have an open and balanced discussion about how we adapt to new threats while safeguarding the intimacy and dignity rightly craved by human beings.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/14/edward-snowden-hero-government-scare-tactics

If anyone cannot see why the Government has come out with this load of waffle, they want their brains testing.   If in doubt and someone has come out against what the Government wants - they reach for the propaganda and the sheep will swallow it and ask for more.

and stalin was a kind and compassionate leader.

edward snowden is a traitor who has the blood of many people on his hands. Only the left would make a hero of our that sort of person.

veya_victaous wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:Take a gun a to his head and blow his brains out,
He is no hero and is scum
I will jump for joy if someone assassinates this idiot.
Happy days.

lol hate fulled scum bag getting his rocks off over killing a brave man.
A Coward sucks the cock of those that rape his children

Blind follower, it is men like you that allow all the evil to occur if you were in Germany in the 30 you would vote Hitler if you were in Spain in 1700's you'd be pro burning witches and telling everyone that the inquisition is Good Justice.
You are the stupidity that allows evil to flourish

its more likely you would have done all those things as you certainly do not have the bravery or spirit of those who joined the international brigade.those peopel fought against tyranny, you and your type fight for it.