UPDATE: Malaysian P.M. says wreckage in satellite images was missing Malaysian flight

First topic message reminder :

In what officials called the "best lead" of the nearly two-week-old aviation mystery, a satellite detected two objects floating about 1,000 miles off the coast of Australia and halfway to the desolate islands of the Antarctic.
The development raised new hope of finding the vanished jet and sent another emotional jolt to the families of the 239 people aboard.

Sarah Bajc, whose boyfriend, American Philip Wood, was aboard the plane, is one of those anxiously awaiting news.

"I'm desperate to hear it is an airplane wing and there are survivors clinging to it, and one of them is Philip," she told CBS News by email. "I'm apprehensive it will be unrelated and the wait will just continue after many more hours of misery."

"I am prepared for dead bodies," she wrote, "but I am not prepared for never knowing."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-370-possible-debris-from-missing-plane-spotted/

UPDATE link: http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/24/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Makes it extra hard as there was most likely kids / babies on board

Original Quill wrote:^^^ Confirming my point.  It not Bee, but others.

       

I think it can be said we all hope Bee gets help.

well.......................    

Joy Division wrote:Makes it extra hard as there was most likely kids / babies on board

Well JD, I know what you mean about children and babies, but it must be hard for all the relatives. I don't like to think of any of the passengers sitting in that plane for hours knowing it was going to crash, so I hope something happened that they were unconscious.

Joy Division wrote:Makes it extra hard as there was most likely kids / babies on board

I think we are all heartbroken when so many people lose their lives, especially when they are sitting passively, trusting others to get them to their destination safely.

That's what fuels our desire to know why/what happened. But in this case, that is not to be.

If and I sincerely hope not the passengers were all conscious for most of the flight South, why did some not try to get onto the flight deck as they did with the plane that taken on 9/11. There was a flight engineer on board and surely he could have been talked through trying to land the plane.

They haven't found anything yet....

gerber wrote:If and I sincerely hope not the passengers were all conscious for most of the flight South, why did some not try to get onto the flight deck as they did with the plane that taken on 9/11. There was a flight engineer on board and surely he could have been talked through trying to land the plane.

I think, Gerbs, that since 9/11 they have made some substantial changes in cabin access. Now cabin doors are impregnable when locked.

But this case suggests some additional questions: shouldn't the cabin be accessible if a pilot goes nuts, or someone gets access who is crazy? Or a terrorist. Or, worse?

 

SASSY'S demented rants on here are truly those of one very confused and crazy little creature...
 ::d&f:: 

Care in the community really doesn't work in Australia, does it?

Original Quill wrote:

gerber wrote:If and I sincerely hope not the passengers were all conscious for most of the flight South,  why did some not try to get onto the flight deck as they did with the plane that taken on 9/11.  There was a flight engineer on board and surely he could have been talked through trying to land the plane.

I think, Gerbs, that since 9/11 they have made some substantial changes in cabin access.  Now cabin doors are impregnable when locked.

But this case suggests some additional questions: shouldn't the cabin be accessible if a pilot goes nuts, or someone gets access who is crazy?  Or a terrorist.  Or, worse?

Had forgotten about them becoming impregnable for safety reasons....... maybe an override system could be put in place to be used in emergencies by the airline themselves.

Inmarsat: How Missing Flight MH370 Was Tracked
A British satellite company tells Sky News how they developed a new system in two weeks to track the Malaysia Airlines plane.

The UK company responsible for confirming that flight MH370 crashed into the southern Indian Ocean has explained why it took two weeks for their initial suspicions to be verified.

Although the communication systems on the Malaysia Airlines craft were switched off, Inmarsat's satellites continued to receive hourly 'pings' from the plane.

These pings are sent from a ground station to a satellite 22,000 miles above the Earth - then on to the plane. The plane then automatically sends a ping back to the satellite and down to the ground station.

By measuring the amount of time it took for pings to be sent and returned and looking at comparisons to other flight data, scientists at Inmarsat were able to spot a pattern.

They believed the plane flew for at least five hours along one of two 'corridors' - one arcing north and the other south.

This information came to light on March 11 but was not publicly acknowledged by the Malaysians until March 15, when the search effort moved to the Indian Ocean.

Since then Inmarsat have worked with more data from other Malaysia Airlines flights to refine their measurements.

They also brought in Boeing and ran their calculations past other UK experts.

This left them confident enough to confirm that it could only have been travelling along the southern corridor - and that because there was nowhere for it to land on that path, it would have eventually run out of fuel and come down in the Indian Ocean.

Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said Inmarsat had employed a technique never used before.

Chris McLoughlin, senior vice president of Inmarsat, told Sky News that some guesswork had to be involved.

"We don't know whether the plane stayed at a constant speed, we don't know whether its headings changed subsequently," he said.

"We applied the autopilot speeds - about 350 knots. We applied what we knew about the fuel and range of the aircraft to hit the series of ping information we had.

"Normally you'd want to triangulate, often you'd have GPS. But because aircraft in that region are not mandated to send out signals of their location we were working from blind, so this is very much a unique approach - the first time it's been done."

Mr McLoughlin believes all commercial planes should now be fitted with existing technology provided by Inmarsat and other satellite companies that would prevent prolonged searches like this unfolding in future.

http://news.sky.com/story/1231155/inmarsat-how-missing-flight-mh370-was-tracked

So that is what the Malaysians knew and couldn't say until it had been verified.

A new system in two weeks, well done them.


Exactly what they meant when they said 26 countries were involved, it's not just the ships and planes on the ground, it's the technology going on all over the world.

That's an excellent summary of the events and it explains quite a lot.

Lone Wolf wrote: 

SASSY'S demented rants on here are truly those of one very confused and crazy little creature...
 ::d&f:: 

Have you managed to look up the information to support your accusations of lies yet and how Australia being handed control of the southern corridor a few days earlier would have changed anything?

Just asking....

Original Quill wrote:

gerber wrote:If and I sincerely hope not the passengers were all conscious for most of the flight South,  why did some not try to get onto the flight deck as they did with the plane that taken on 9/11.  There was a flight engineer on board and surely he could have been talked through trying to land the plane.

I think, Gerbs, that since 9/11 they have made some substantial changes in cabin access.  Now cabin doors are impregnable when locked.

But this case suggests some additional questions: shouldn't the cabin be accessible if a pilot goes nuts, or someone gets access who is crazy?  Or a terrorist.  Or, worse?

I flew Delta from the UK to JFK a couple of years ago and travelling business class I was right at the front behind the crew meal preparation area and the cockpit and there were countless opportunities to gain access to the cockpit. The flight attendants often opened the cockpit door to take in a meal or a drink and the pilots also came out to use the toilet during the flight. All that the flight attendants did when serving into the cockpit was to put up a small wooden board that I could easily have jumped over and into the cockpit. Same with domestic flights here in the UK where the cockpit door is often opened in full view of the passengers giving ample opportunity to get in there. The doors may be strong and secure but that's only effective if the door is locked constantly or if there is a secondary system to cover periods where people go in and out.
On Virgin Atlantic and British Airways long haul flights the view to the cockpit area is screened off from the passengers so you can never tell when the cockpit door is being opened.

 

SASSY still hasn't retracted her half dozen arrogant and outright lies from last week, has she Irn ???

Nope.. Didn't think so !

  

Right, you total dickhead. STATE WHAT THE LIES WERE, BECAUSE THERE WEREN'T ANY.

Demented fucking moron.

Lone Wolf wrote: 

SASSY still hasn't retracted her half dozen arrogant and outright lies from last week, has she Irn ???

Nope..   Didn't think so !

  

Sorry Bee but you are going to have to come up with any evidence that she lied. She didn't and that's why you ain't doing it.

Bee appears to think that the only countries helping were those with ships and planes in Australia, which was the only place them could search from, the distance from anywhere else meant they had would have no search time. I don't know if he is being deliberately stupid, but there were many countries helping in many ways, for example the British input was the team that finally located where it had come down, and they were using technology in Britain, they didn't have to leave their building.

Here's the link to Malaysia officially asking for help from 25 countries, there's even an audio link of what was said when they asked.

Missing flight MH370: Malaysia calls on 25 countries in massive search for Malaysia Airlines plane
By Stephen McDonell in Kuala Lumpur and wires

Updated Mon 17 Mar 2014, 11:21am AEDT

Malaysia has called for help from 25 countries as the search for missing flight MH370 expands across a vast area of land and ocean, officials have said.

The United States, France and China have all been asked for more satellite information to help find the missing Malaysia Airlines passenger jet.

"The number of countries involved in the search and rescue operation has increased from 14 to 25, which brings new challenges of coordination and diplomacy to the search effort," Malaysia's defence and transport minister Hishammuddin Hussein told a press conference.

On Sunday afternoon (local time), Malaysian officials briefed envoys from about 20 countries on progress in the investigation after calling off a search in the South China Sea for the jet that vanished from radar screens more than a week ago with 239 people on board.
Audio: Malaysia asks for help in search for missing plane (AM)

Although countries have been coordinating individually, the broad, formal request marks a new diplomatic phase in an operation expanding across two hemispheres and overshadowed by mounting Chinese criticism of Malaysian-led search efforts.

"The meeting was for us to know exactly what is happening and what sort of help they need. It is more for them to tell us, 'please put in all your resources'," India's high commissioner to Malaysia TS Tirumurti told Reuters.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-16/malaysia-calls-on-25-countries-in-search-for-malaysia-airlines/5324596


Now, as all the information I put on was from BBC and Sky bulletins, verbatim, I fail to see how lying is involved in any way.

SO BEE, TELL ME WHAT LIES OR SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Sassy wrote:
Care in the community really doesn't work in Australia, does it?

  

THIS demented and deranged piece of felacious and outrageous xenophobic bulldust on Sassy's part only goes to prove how crazy that madwoman truly is these days...

Sorry Bee, you are the living proof care in the community doesn't work in Australia.

So what are these lies?

  CONSTANT bad weather and rough seas are currently delaying the Aussie ships from reaching the 'debris' sites...


SO, any news updates at this time will simply be rehashing previous news items and commentaries..  

Get the black box!

....Then make a blockbuster Hollywood film of it!   

   THE THREE Australian commercial TV networks (Channels Seven, Nine and Ten) have just wrapped up, (or are still running now..), News summaries covering the last couple of days...

They will likely have videos on their websites soon (Hopefully !  => give them a couple of hours to get their act together), and probably somewhere on YouTube sometime tomorrow..

National public broadcaster:   http://www.abc.net.au/news/

Channel Seven News:   http://au.news.yahoo.com/

Channel Nine News:   http://news.ninemsn.com.au/

Channel Ten News:   http://tenplay.com.au/news/national

SBS News: (Public "Ethnic" TV)   http://www.sbs.com.au/news/

 

Irn Bru wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I think, Gerbs, that since 9/11 they have made some substantial changes in cabin access.  Now cabin doors are impregnable when locked.

But this case suggests some additional questions: shouldn't the cabin be accessible if a pilot goes nuts, or someone gets access who is crazy?  Or a terrorist.  Or, worse?

I flew Delta from the UK to JFK a couple of years ago and travelling business class I was right at the front behind the crew meal preparation area and the cockpit and there were countless opportunities to gain access to the cockpit. The flight attendants often opened the cockpit door to take in a meal or a drink and the pilots also came out to use the toilet during the flight. All that the flight attendants did when serving into the cockpit was to put up a small wooden board that I could easily have jumped over and into the cockpit. Same with domestic flights here in the UK where the cockpit door is often opened in full view of the passengers giving ample opportunity to get in there. The doors may be strong and secure but that's only effective if the door is locked constantly or if there is a secondary system to cover periods where people go in and out.
On Virgin Atlantic and British Airways long haul flights the view to the cockpit area is screened off from the passengers so you can never tell when the cockpit door is being opened.

You are right about that, Irn.  There is a lot of egress and ingress to the cabin.  But of course...that would be necessary.  It's not intended to be solitary confinement.

But the security of the cabin aims at locking down the control area should a crisis or emergency come about back in the passenger cabins.  Gerber's question was about access by passengers.  If those pilots either died with the flight deck secured, or didn't want anyone to have access, they could have closed it down tightly and no one could come or go.

Lone Wolf wrote:
   CONSTANT bad weather and rough seas are currently delaying the Aussie ships from reaching the 'debris' sites...


SO, any news updates at this time will simply be rehashing previous news items and commentaries..  

There was a typhoon off the coast, to the north (off to the west of Port Hedland). But that will miss the search area. Nevertheless, it is sending some substantial waves and rough skies down toward the area.

Has anything actually been identified yet as coming from the plane or is all still very strong summizing on the back of higher mathematical commputions.

   @ Quill :

THERE are some big ships out there in those rough waters ~

Aussie warship
Aussie S&R ship
Chinese Icebreaker

Plus: just outside the suspected Debris zone ~
A US warship
Japanese specialised S&R/Recovery ship
(And two freighters have been detoured into doing search runs as well over several days..).


Those big boats can easily handle those 10-20 metre swells out in the open oceans (that's the equivalent to a wave with a 5-10 metre face !   ).

However, those rough seas still means that you can't see much out there, and it's still too rough to put men down in smaller craft..


THERE is also a specialised "black box retrieval robot/submersible" on it's way from the US (direct from the manufacturer/inventor/operator..) ~ which could be operated from any of these ships once a plane is actually found.    

gerber wrote:Has anything actually been identified yet as coming from the plane or is all still very strong summizing on the back of higher mathematical commputions.

I refer you to my post of 5:12pm yesterday:


They haven't found anything yet....

gerber wrote:Has anything actually been identified yet as coming from the plane or is all still very strong summizing on the back of higher mathematical commputions.

The most they have right now is the data tracking from the AAIB. It's as remote as the Titanic once was, but 10-times the ocean, less traffic and 5-times as deep.

The chances are right now, we will never find anything.

Maybe we should enlist the help of those Japanese Whaling ships. They know those waters.

Original Quill wrote:

gerber wrote:Has anything actually been identified yet as coming from the plane or is all still very strong summizing on the back of higher mathematical commputions.

The most they have right now is the data tracking from the AAIB.  It's as remote as the Titanic once was, but 10-times the ocean, less traffic and 5-times as deep.

The chances are right now, we will never find anything.

Maybe we should enlist the help of those Japanese Whaling ships.  They know those waters.

Interesting point, middle son said just that last week as they have been down for a spell......

So is the pronouncement purely politics..... ? Because if it is I can sympathise with the Chinese marching on the Embassy in Bejiing.

gerber wrote:
Has anything actually been identified yet as coming from the plane or is all still very strong summizing on the back of higher mathematical commputions.

  

Talk English, you supercilious little smartarse...

   

NO ~ no actual debris from the missing aircraft has yet been reported found, and identified as such..
("Debris" has been seen from three search aircraft now - one Aussie Orion, one Chinese plane, then one private LR corporate jet, as well as satellite images over several days ~ as of Tuesday night, and radio beacons/markers dropped from each of those aircraft..).

The pieces they are searching for simply happen to be in the right search area for where the plane would have come down once it had run out of fuel.

Some wreckage should still be floating.

BigAndy9 wrote:Some wreckage should still be floating.

Probably, but about 800-miles off the mark.  They've got less than two weeks to pick up a sonar ping that can only be heard for about a mile underwater.

not sure why they have told the families and not produced over whelming evidence of the plane going down and everyone is dead or have i missed something.

The wreakage could be from cargo ships or some could...... Many huge ships sail in those desolate waters and I doubt many images have been take of such a huge area before and in such detail

 

The surface Sonar that is being deployed has a range of 3 kms. That's nearly two miles..

Ocean Depths out there are between 3 and 6 kms. A submersible robot has arrived in Oz and is sitting over in the Airforce base to be used if necessary ~ it does a back-and-forth search pattern on the ocean floor once something is detected, with sonar searcing 600m either side of that vessel.

Teams of international oceanographers are currently over there, measuring and following the currents ~ then it's simply back-tracking to see where any debris found could have been two weeks ago..

THAT then becomes the 'point-zero' search area to start looking for an actual plane wreckage.

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:not sure why they have told the families and not produced over whelming evidence of the plane going down and everyone is dead or have i missed something.

The sole basis for the Malaysian government announcing the aircraft went into the drink is inferential. The plane only has so much fuel, and it was on a track where no landing sites are possible. No direct evidence, but not an unreasonable conclusion, given the facts.

Inmarsat's tracking shows that it came down in that place, and its was bloody brilliant of them to put together in two weeks to give the relatives some closure. In the area it came down, the kind of weather etc etc, it might still take them some time to find the evidence.

   >>>   Heavenly_GIGATT...

THE plane went down in open ocean waters...

IT'S been more than 48-72 hours ~ there simply won't be any survivors ~ it's not like they crashed onto Tahiti, Fiji or the Maldives..


IT IS a small thing called a sense of "closure" over the loss of loved ones ~ and allowing time for grieving and acceptance by the familes.    

Maybe I am too sceptical................. Suddenly it is pieced together with info known for two weeks........

In an area that nothing may ever be found, convenient possibly, the only factor that it making me think they are in the right area is the amount of hardware being used. Maybe they have all been hoodwinked.

Inmarsat had been working on it for two weeks, but couldn't say anything until they were sure.

gerber wrote:Maybe I am too sceptical.................  Suddenly it is pieced together with info known for two weeks........

In an area that nothing may ever be found, convenient possibly, the only factor that it making me think they are in the right area is the amount of hardware being used.  Maybe they have all been hoodwinked.

It is possible, given the few facts actually known directly. Undoubtedly, there will soon be conspiracy theories about it. We don't even know the cause: was it cranial or equipment? Catastrophic? Who was at the controls? For how long? Why turn off the transponder? More importantly, why go to such trouble to disable the ACAR system; what is that agenda about? Why the South Indian Ocean? If cranial, was there a more complex plan, or was this all that was intended?

Which as we know is all speculation and can't be answered until they find the black box.

They are running out of time to locate the black box via it's pings, thirteen days max......

maybe more accurate methods are available.............

But until it is located and the reasons deduced and fault can be shown to belong to someone, somebody or company I doubt the insurance companies will play ball.......

So is it a stitch up............ a non affordable insurance claim.......

Trouble is Gerbs, when something is an entirely unpredictable as this was, and as complicated as this was, it's bound to leave a mess.

Sassy wrote:Trouble is Gerbs, when something is an entirely unpredictable as this was, and as complicated as this was, it's bound to leave a mess.  

Yep but people still need to pay mortgages, bills kids need things, people need money and if the main earner has been lost so has their income.

I know, it's just awful for them. What a mess!