Is It Selfish to Not Vaccinate Your Child? | Good Morning Britain

Why are some people so dumb, to think they know better than the medical profession and then place their children at risk?

Phildidge wrote:

Why are some people so dumb, to think they know better than the medical profession and then place their children at risk?

Good Morning Britain viewers have today slammed a mother who claimed the MMR vaccine 'doesn't work' in a row with the show's resident doctor.

Biba Tanya appeared on the ITV show in a controversial segment about the jab - but has been accused of shouting over Dr Hilary Jones, the hosts and other guests.

People have argued about the vaccine for decades since a now-discredited study in the 1990s wrongly suggested it could cause autism.

As well as incorrectly claiming the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine doesn't work, Ms Tanya said 'measles isn't a serious condition'.

Dr Jones quickly corrected her claims, which prompted outrage among dozens of angry Twitter users who say public health is at risk because of views like hers.

Viewers have called Ms Tanya a 'screaming banshee', 'a deluded old b****', 'nasty' and 'very aggressive' because of her row on television.

The MMR vaccine has been proven to be safe and effective but many parents are still afraid it could harm their children, a myth which has spread online.

dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6371369/Viewers-outraged-shouting-mother-claims-MMR-vaccine-doesnt-work.html

What you mean like when people slavishly took thalidomide?

HoratioTarr wrote:What you mean like when people slavishly took thalidomide?

You compare something to help morning sickness in the 1950's with a vaccination that saves billions of lives?

Seriously?

And what happened here?

They were using it for the wrong treatment, in a time, when the medical profession was till learning

They made a grave error which has now been rectified by the fact this is used to treat skin condition and cancer

This is the kind of ignorance I talk of. People thinking they know better, and then through stupidity, speaking to others. Which then places other lives at risk.

If you want to be stupid that is your choice, just dont promote your stupidity onto others, as everything comes with risks and complications. The fact is this, how many would not be alive today, if not for the vaccines?

You tell me that?

HoratioTarr wrote:What you mean like when people slavishly took thalidomide?

It's not even close to the same. The MMR vaccine has been used for decades and there is no evidence conclusively linking it to any major side effects.

If everyone suddenly stopped using it we would, without question, see a return of many awful diseases. I'd personally question the parenting ability of anyone who refuses it for their child, but if they insist, then they should not be allowed to send their kids to schools of responsible parents.

Eilzel wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:What you mean like when people slavishly took thalidomide?

It's not even close to the same. The MMR vaccine has been used for decades and there is no evidence conclusively linking it to any major side effects.

If everyone suddenly stopped using it we would, without question, see a return of many awful diseases. I'd personally question the parenting ability of anyone who refuses it for their child, but if they insist, then they should not be allowed to send their kids to schools of responsible parents.

+1

Though then what do we do mate with these children unvaccinated?

Its a hard situation to deal with, when you have such irresponsible parents.

As seen, its not only placing that childs life at risk, but countless others.

The problem is many do not know living within their time seeing how deadly this can be. So I will help them

Even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available, in 2016, there were 89 780 measles deaths globally, mostly among children under the age of five.

Measles vaccination resulted in a 84% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2016 worldwide.

In 2016, about 85% of the world's children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services – up from 72% in 2000.

During 2000-2016, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 20.4 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health.

Measles is a highly contagious, serious disease caused by a virus. Before the introduction of measles vaccine in 1963 and widespread vaccination, major epidemics occurred approximately every 2–3 years and measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year.

Approximately 89 780 people died from measles in 2016 – mostly children under the age of 5 years, despite the availability of a safe and effective vaccine.

Measles is caused by a virus in the paramyxovirus family and it is normally passed through direct contact and through the air. The virus infects the respiratory tract, then spreads throughout the body. Measles is a human disease and is not known to occur in animals.

Accelerated immunization activities have had a major impact on reducing measles deaths. During 2000–2016, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 20.4 million deaths. Global measles deaths have decreased by 84% from an estimated 550 100 in 2000* to 89 780 in 2016.

who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/measles

You should watch this Eilzel. It beggars belief there is such idiots out there endangering so many children with their stupidity

Children with autism spectrum disorder are significantly less likely to be fully vaccinated than children unaffected by autism, new research finds. And the same is true of their younger sisters and brothers.

"This study is showing that children with autism and their younger siblings might be at greater risk of vaccine-preventable diseases," said Ousseny Zerbo, lead author of the study and a postdoctoral fellow with the Kaiser Permanente Northern California Division of Research.

The study was published Monday in the journal JAMA Pediatrics.

edition.cnn.com/2018/03/26/health/vaccination-rates-children-autism-study/index.html

Just to show and prove why anti-vaxxers are utterly stupid

The study is linked on the above link

Phildidge wrote:

Biba Tanya appeared on the ITV show in a controversial segment about the jab -


but has been accused of shouting over Dr Hilary Jones, the hosts and other guests.

She's VERY aggressive.  Zero people skills and way too much testosterone. If she was a doctor she'd be in big trouble with the medical governing bodies as her words could influence other mums.

Jules wrote:

Phildidge wrote:

Biba Tanya appeared on the ITV show in a controversial segment about the jab -


but has been accused of shouting over Dr Hilary Jones, the hosts and other guests.

She's VERY aggressive.  Zero people skills and way too much testosterone. If she was a doctor she'd be in big trouble with the medical governing bodies as her words could influence other mums.

I agree and she simple shouted over everyone. Not listening to any of the data and this is what is scary Jules

That people like this are posuting such nonsense and placing children at risk

Now I can understand why some parents who lose their children to another illness, may seek to look for a cause elsewhere and blame this on vaccines. That is not going to bring their child back and to look to blame this on vaccines, when there is no evidence, is simple a convenience to do so. Yet it has no bases. So sadly then what happens, is people come to believe th is what caused their childs death, and the fear factor seeps in. Even though there is no evidence that the vaccine was the cause of death. I sympathise with any parent that have lost children, but to then use the death of their children to then promote falsehoods, is not only irresponsible, but placing other lives at risk.

I mean even for arguments sake and lets claim it did actually cause the death of some children in a small number of cases. Would that then mean we should stop the vaccinations? Of course not, as every drug has the possibility of complications and side effects. To stop the vaccinations would just bring a return to millions of children dying each year. Hence why its a no brianer to have children vaccinated

To those who wrongly claim their child has autism from vaccinations, I would ask them this. Would you rather your child had autism or died before the age of 5?

Good points though Jules

When my child was an infant almost every mum in the various playgroups and nurseries we used, was anxious about this, they whispered about it endlessly, full of angst.

But in the end after weighing all the evidence we all plumped to have our kids fully immunised, I don't think anyone refused it.

Jules wrote:When my child was an infant almost every mum in the various playgroups and nurseries we used, was anxious about this, they whispered about it endlessly, full of angst.
But in the end after weighing all the evidence we all plumped to have our kids immunised, I don't think anyone refused it.

I like that approach Jules. Some parents are anxious and this forms again from people not understanding the possible consequences of not doing so. Its always best to speak to medical professionals on this and the more the better. Yet also here was good, as it seems good sense and sound advice help sway people within the playgroup.

If the lady's son got measles after the MMR, it's reasonable for her to think that the MMR vaccine doesn't work.

I think that having three vaccines in one is too much, but that's just my opinion.

Phildidge wrote:

Jules wrote:
She's VERY aggressive.  Zero people skills and way too much testosterone. If she was a doctor she'd be in big trouble with the medical governing bodies as her words could influence other mums.

I agree and she simple shouted over everyone. Not listening to any of the data and this is what is scary Jules

That people like this are posuting such nonsense and placing children at risk

Now I can understand why some parents who lose their children to another illness, may seek to look for a cause elsewhere and blame this on vaccines. That is not going to bring their child back and to look to blame this on vaccines, when there is no evidence, is simple a convenience to do so. Yet it has no bases. So sadly then what happens, is people come to believe th is what caused their childs death, and the fear factor seeps in. Even though there is no evidence that the vaccine was the cause of death. I sympathise with any parent that have lost children, but to then use the death of their children to then promote falsehoods, is not only irresponsible, but placing other lives at risk.

I mean even for arguments sake and lets claim it did actually cause the death of some children in a small number of cases. Would that then mean we should stop the vaccinations? Of course not, as every drug has the possibility of complications and side effects. To stop the vaccinations would just bring a return to millions of children dying each year. Hence why its a no brianer to have children vaccinated

To those who wrongly claim their child has autism from vaccinations, I would ask them this. Would you rather your child had autism or died before the age of 5?

Good points though Jules

She's scary. I strongly suspect she's out to make a name for herself and become a well known media celeb. There's good money in it! It can set them up for life financially, if they use their 15 minutes of fame well.

Phildidge wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:What you mean like when people slavishly took thalidomide?

You compare something to help morning sickness in the 1950's with a vaccination that saves billions of lives?

Seriously?

And what happened here?

They were using it for the wrong treatment, in a time, when the medical profession was till learning

They made a grave error which has now been rectified by the fact this is used to treat skin condition and cancer

This is the kind of ignorance I talk of. People thinking they know better, and then through stupidity, speaking to others. Which then places other lives at risk.

If you want to be stupid that is your choice, just dont promote your stupidity onto others, as everything comes with risks and complications. The fact is this, how many would not be alive today, if not for the vaccines?

You tell me that?

Do you think the medical profession is not still learning then? You think they know everything now?

Raggamuffin wrote:If the lady's son got measles after the MMR, it's reasonable for her to think that the MMR vaccine doesn't work.

I think that having three vaccines in one is too much, but that's just my opinion.

One vaccine is 93% effective and two is 97% effective. Thus the more people vaccinated reduces the risk of many people contracting Measels

You do understand that people vaccinated, can still get measels?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Phildidge wrote:

You compare something to help morning sickness in the 1950's with a vaccination that saves billions of lives?

Seriously?

And what happened here?

They were using it for the wrong treatment, in a time, when the medical profession was till learning

They made a grave error which has now been rectified by the fact this is used to treat skin condition and cancer

This is the kind of ignorance I talk of. People thinking they know better, and then through stupidity, speaking to others. Which then places other lives at risk.

If you want to be stupid that is your choice, just dont promote your stupidity onto others, as everything comes with risks and complications. The fact is this, how many would not be alive today, if not for the vaccines?

You tell me that?

Do you think the medical profession is not still learning then? You think they know everything now?

Compared to the 1950's and now?

I never claimed they know everything, but they certainly know far more, than they did nearly 70 years ago

That is just common sense

Horatios argument was utterly dumb

Phildidge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Do you think the medical profession is not still learning then? You think they know everything now?

Compared to the 1950's and now?

I never claimed they know everything, but they certainly know far more, than they did nearly 70 years ago

That is just common sense

Horatios argument was utterly dumb

It wasn't dumb at all. Drugs have been taken off the market in recent years because of serious side effects, and nobody picked that up at first.

Jules wrote:

Phildidge wrote:


I agree and she simple shouted over everyone. Not listening to any of the data and this is what is scary Jules

That people like this are posuting such nonsense and placing children at risk

Now I can understand why some parents who lose their children to another illness, may seek to look for a cause elsewhere and blame this on vaccines. That is not going to bring their child back and to look to blame this on vaccines, when there is no evidence, is simple a convenience to do so. Yet it has no bases. So sadly then what happens, is people come to believe th is what caused their childs death, and the fear factor seeps in. Even though there is no evidence that the vaccine was the cause of death. I sympathise with any parent that have lost children, but to then use the death of their children to then promote falsehoods, is not only irresponsible, but placing other lives at risk.

I mean even for arguments sake and lets claim it did actually cause the death of some children in a small number of cases. Would that then mean we should stop the vaccinations? Of course not, as every drug has the possibility of complications and side effects. To stop the vaccinations would just bring a return to millions of children dying each year. Hence why its a no brianer to have children vaccinated

To those who wrongly claim their child has autism from vaccinations, I would ask them this. Would you rather your child had autism or died before the age of 5?

Good points though Jules

She's scary. I strongly suspect she's out to make a name for herself and become a well known media celeb. There's good money in it! It can set them up for life financially, if they use their 15 minutes of fame well.

I am not sure Jules. I sadly think there is some people out there that like religion, take this radically to new levels. Where they are so sadly convinced that its better to not vaccinate.

That is very scary to me

Phildidge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:If the lady's son got measles after the MMR, it's reasonable for her to think that the MMR vaccine doesn't work.

I think that having three vaccines in one is too much, but that's just my opinion.

One vaccine is 93% effective and two is 97% effective. Thus the more people vaccinated reduces the risk of many people contracting Measels

You do understand that people vaccinated, can still get measels?

I said it was reasonable for her to think it doesn't work. It clearly doesn't work for some people.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Phildidge wrote:

Compared to the 1950's and now?

I never claimed they know everything, but they certainly know far more, than they did nearly 70 years ago

That is just common sense

Horatios argument was utterly dumb

It wasn't dumb at all. Drugs have been taken off the market in recent years because of serious side effects, and nobody picked that up at first.

It was incredible dumb, based on the fact this vaccination has saved millions of lives

Even the drug she brought up has not been taken off the market as it helps within cancer treatment


You want to defend people making a stupid point, be mt guest, but I would recommend, nobody ever take the advice of someone so naive as Horatio on medical issues

I would never recommend myself, but to speak people who are trained

How she tried to compare apples with cars, was basically dumb

Phildidge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It wasn't dumb at all. Drugs have been taken off the market in recent years because of serious side effects, and nobody picked that up at first.

It was incredible dumb, based on the fact this vaccination has saved millions of lives

Even the drug she brought up has not been taken off the market as it helps within cancer treatment


You want to defend people making a stupid point, be mt guest, but I would recommend, nobody ever take the advice of someone so naive as Horatio on medical issues

I would never recommend myself, but to speak people who are trained

How she tried to compare apples with cars, was basically dumb

It wasn't dumb, it was a perfectly valid post. I see you're already being rude and abusive on this thread.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Phildidge wrote:

One vaccine is 93% effective and two is 97% effective. Thus the more people vaccinated reduces the risk of many people contracting Measels

You do understand that people vaccinated, can still get measels?

I said it was reasonable for her to think it doesn't work. It clearly doesn't work for some people.

OMG, so based on that, should we stop the vaccine

Do the maths

What happens when many people are vaccinated Rags?

Its not just about one individual here but many

So if many are vaccinated, does this increase the risk of getting measels, or decrease this?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Phildidge wrote:

It was incredible dumb, based on the fact this vaccination has saved millions of lives

Even the drug she brought up has not been taken off the market as it helps within cancer treatment


You want to defend people making a stupid point, be mt guest, but I would recommend, nobody ever take the advice of someone so naive as Horatio on medical issues

I would never recommend myself, but to speak people who are trained

How she tried to compare apples with cars, was basically dumb

It wasn't dumb, it was a perfectly valid post. I see you're already being rude and abusive on this thread.

Absoluetly I will mock people being ignorant when they endanger lives

If you want to defend that, good luck with that stupidity

That makes you as irresponsible also and you utterly deserved to be mocked

Hope that helps clarify my position

Eilzel wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:What you mean like when people slavishly took thalidomide?

It's not even close to the same. The MMR vaccine has been used for decades and there is no evidence conclusively linking it to any major side effects.

If everyone suddenly stopped using it we would, without question, see a return of many awful diseases. I'd personally question the parenting ability of anyone who refuses it for their child, but if they insist, then they should not be allowed to send their kids to schools of responsible parents.

If the "responsible" parents had their kids immunised, why would it matter? Do you suggest that the kids should go to a "special" school for those with "irresponsible parents" then?

Phildidge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It wasn't dumb, it was a perfectly valid post. I see you're already being rude and abusive on this thread.

Absoluetly I will mock people being ignorant when they endanger lives

If you want to defend that, good luck with that stupidity

That makes you as irresponsible also and you utterly deserved to be mocked

Hope that helps clarify my position

I'll just discuss it with others if you don't mind. You're much more obnoxious than the lady in the video.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

It's not even close to the same. The MMR vaccine has been used for decades and there is no evidence conclusively linking it to any major side effects.

If everyone suddenly stopped using it we would, without question, see a return of many awful diseases. I'd personally question the parenting ability of anyone who refuses it for their child, but if they insist, then they should not be allowed to send their kids to schools of responsible parents.

If the "responsible" parents had their kids immunised, why would it matter? Do you suggest that the kids should go to a "special" school for those with "irresponsible parents" then?

It matters loads actually when it comes to the fact of measel outbreaks are caused by those not vaccinated

Raggamuffin wrote:If the lady's son got measles after the MMR, it's reasonable for her to think that the MMR vaccine doesn't work.

I think that having three vaccines in one is too much, but that's just my opinion.

Well the mumps and rubella ones worked. Is she rubbishing a triple vaccine because one out of 3 didn't work?

Btw does she realise that her son caught measles from the kid of a mum who refused the vaccine? The refusers are always the source of infection, they're the ones who prevent extinction of the virus. Irony!

Raggamuffin wrote:

Phildidge wrote:

Absoluetly I will mock people being ignorant when they endanger lives

If you want to defend that, good luck with that stupidity

That makes you as irresponsible also and you utterly deserved to be mocked

Hope that helps clarify my position

I'll just discuss it with others if you don't mind. You're much more obnoxious than the lady in the video.

Well I am sorry if your feelings are hurt

Peoples lives are more important than your feelings gotten trodden on.

So I suggest you stop being a snowflake and understand people will ridicule you for being a tad thick, when you defend irresponsible people

Protecting lives is more important than your feelings

Jules wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:If the lady's son got measles after the MMR, it's reasonable for her to think that the MMR vaccine doesn't work.

I think that having three vaccines in one is too much, but that's just my opinion.

Well the mumps and rubella ones worked. Is she rubbishing a triple vaccine because one out of 3 didn't work?

Btw does she realise that her son caught measles from the kid of a mum who refused the vaccine? The refusers are always the source of infection, they're the ones who prevent extinction of the virus. Irony!

.

How do you know the mumps and rubella ones worked? If the kid hadn't been exposed to those, he wouldn't catch them anyway. Her kid could have caught measles from a kid who had been vaccinated. After all, it's not 100% effective.

It's like saying that the flu jab must work if someone doesn't get flu. I didn't have flu last year, or the year before that, or the year before that, etc, and yet I didn't have the flu jab those years.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Jules wrote:

Well the mumps and rubella ones worked. Is she rubbishing a triple vaccine because one out of 3 didn't work?

Btw does she realise that her son caught measles from the kid of a mum who refused the vaccine? The refusers are always the source of infection, they're the ones who prevent extinction of the virus. Irony!

.

How do you know the mumps and rubella ones worked? If the kid hadn't been exposed to those, he wouldn't catch them anyway. Her kid could have caught measles from a kid who had been vaccinated. After all, it's not 100% effective.

Key vaccine facts
This combination vaccine gives protection against three serious diseases: measles, mumps, and rubella. See more information about the safety of combination vaccines.

Before the introduction of the MMR vaccine, all three diseases were extremely common and most people had them at some point, usually as children. Although many people survived without long-term effects, others were left with serious disabilities and some children died. Complications of measles include fatal pneumonia and encephalitis (inflammation of the brain). In the year before a vaccine was introduced, 99 people died from measles complications. Measles also damages the immune system and makes people more vulnerable to other infections. Mumps can cause deafness and meningitis, and in the past rubella caused many babies to be born with serious abnormalities (known as Congenital Rubella Syndrome).

MMR vaccines contain live measles, mumps and rubella viruses that have been weakened (attenuated). These stimulate the immune system but do not cause disease in healthy people.

Two brands of MMR vaccine are used in the UK: MMRVaxPro (see the Patient Information Leaflet ) and Priorix (see the Patient Information Leaflet ).

Measles outbreaks in the UK and Europe
Between 2001 and 2013 there was a sharp rise in the number of UK measles cases, and three people died. Numbers of cases have fallen since 2013, but rates of measles are still higher than they were in the late 1990s and seem to be rising again in 2018. Between 1 January 2018 and 6 July 2018 there were 757 laboratory confirmed measles cases in England - nearly three times as many as the total number confirmed in 2017. The majority of measles cases have been in people who are not vaccinated, especially young people aged 15 and over who missed out on MMR vaccination when they were younger. About 30% of those infected have been admitted to hospital.

At the moment most UK measles cases are linked to travel in Europe. Measles cases have also been linked to music festivals and other large public events. Public Health England is advising people to check that they are vaccinated against measles before they travel abroad or go to large public events in the UK or elsewhere.

Numbers of measles cases are currently high in several European countries. There were more than three times as many measles cases in 2017 as there were in 2016. In 2016 and 2017 there were 49 deaths from measles in Europe, and by mid-August 2018 there had been another 37 deaths (see reports from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control ). There have been particularly serious outbreaks in Serbia, Ukraine, Georgia, Greece, Romania, Italy, and France. Around 95% of cases have been in babies and children under 1 year of age who were not yet vaccinated. Travellers have brought a number of measles cases into the UK recently, and these are expected to continue.

Who should have the vaccine, and how many doses are needed?
Children get two doses of MMR vaccine. The first dose is given at 12-13 months in the UK schedule. The vaccine is not usually given earlier than this because studies have shown it does not work so well in children under 1 year of age. (See the short video under 'Is the vaccine safe?' at the bottom of the page.) A booster dose is given at 3 years and 4 months at the same time as the Pre-school Booster vaccine.

There is also a catch-up programme for children, teenagers and young adults who have missed out on the MMR vaccine. Anyone of any age who is not sure whether they have had two doses of measles, mumps and rubella vaccines can ask their GP for the MMR vaccine.

Because of measles outbreaks in Europe and elsewhere, all travellers are advised to check that they are up to date with MMR vaccination before they travel. If you are travelling with a baby, the MMR vaccine can be given from six months of age before travelling to a country where measles is a risk or where an outbreak is taking place. See the Travel Health Pro website for more information.

Single measles, mumps and rubella vaccines are not available in the UK through the NHS and are not recommended by the NHS (see the statement from Public Health England ). Single mumps and rubella vaccines are no longer manufactured anywhere in the world.

Who should not have the vaccine?
The MMR vaccine should not be given to people who are clinically immunosuppressed (either due to drug treatment or underlying illness). This is because the weakened viruses in the vaccine could replicate too much and cause serious infection. This includes babies whose mothers have had immunosuppressive treatment while they were pregnant or breastfeeding. For more information see the MHRA's Drug Safety Update (April 2016) .

What protection does the vaccine give?
After two doses of MMR vaccine, about 99 of people out of 100 will be protected against measles, about 88 out of 100 will be protected against mumps, and almost everyone will be protected against rubella.

MMR vaccine safety
There are now a large number of studies that show no evidence at all of any link between the MMR vaccine and autism. In the short film below, experts say why they believe there is no link. See 'Is the vaccine safe?' towards the bottom of this page for a full list of studies.

Raggamuffin wrote:It's like saying that the flu jab must work if someone doesn't get flu. I didn't have flu last year, or the year before that, or the year before that, etc, and yet I didn't have the flu jab those years.

The mind boggles at your stupid reply above

If many people are immunized, this then means less people are likely to contract this

Do you need me to break this down as to why you are being a complete numpty here?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Jules wrote:

Well the mumps and rubella ones worked. Is she rubbishing a triple vaccine because one out of 3 didn't work?

Btw does she realise that her son caught measles from the kid of a mum who refused the vaccine? The refusers are always the source of infection, they're the ones who prevent extinction of the virus. Irony!

.

How do you know the mumps and rubella ones worked? If the kid hadn't been exposed to those, he wouldn't catch them anyway. Her kid could have caught measles from a kid who had been vaccinated. After all, it's not 100% effective.

True, I can't be sure those 2 jabs worked . . . . in the exact same way the she cannot be sure they didn't work. She should criticise the one jab she had an issue with, instead of rubbishing all 3 jabs.

As for where the kid caught the measles, yes you can argue that it could have come from another vaccinated kid but what a hell of a coincidence that would be. Instead of giving weight to unlikely coincidences, let's go along with the balance of probabilities instead.

Jules wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:
.

How do you know the mumps and rubella ones worked? If the kid hadn't been exposed to those, he wouldn't catch them anyway. Her kid could have caught measles from a kid who had been vaccinated. After all, it's not 100% effective.

True, I can't be sure those 2 jabs worked . . . . in the exact same way the she cannot be sure they didn't work. She should criticise the one jab she had an issue with, instead of rubbishing all 3 jabs.

As for where the kid caught the measles, yes you can argue that it could have come from another vaccinated kid but what a hell of a coincidence that would be. Instead of giving weight to unlikely coincidences, let's go along with the balance of probabilities instead.

Um, the three vaccines come as one jab, that's the point - they don't separate them these days. You're also missing the point that her kid had the MMR jab and still got measles, possibly from another kid.

Measles outbreak hotspots are in US states where parents can opt out of vaccinations

States that make it easy for parents to avoid vaccinating their children are at high risk for outbreaks of measles and other infectious diseases, a study published in PLoS Medicine has shown.1

The percentage of US children who are unvaccinated has risen since 2009. The 2015 National Immunization Survey found that only 72.2% of young children aged 19-35 months were fully vaccinated in line with practice guidelines.

“A social movement of public health vaccine opposition has been growing in the United States in recent years; subsequently, measles outbreaks have also increased,” said the authors of the study, from the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, …

bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2655

There's probably a disclaimer in the small print that states that in a tiny number of case - maybe 1 in a few thousands - a vaccine might not work.


This does not give the woman the right to put every other mum off. There is no such thing as a perfect vaccine. There's a Russian roulette factor. I am even willing to believe that in a tiny, minuscule  number of cases, a kid can be harmed by a particular jab - I  mean - if an allergic person can drop dead on the spot after mistakenly biting into peanut sandwich - anything is possible.    

Have a lovely day peeps, heading out.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Jules wrote:
True, I can't be sure those 2 jabs worked . . . . in the exact same way the she cannot be sure they didn't work. She should criticise the one jab she had an issue with, instead of rubbishing all 3 jabs.

As for where the kid caught the measles, yes you can argue that it could have come from another vaccinated kid but what a hell of a coincidence that would be. Instead of giving weight to unlikely coincidences, let's go along with the balance of probabilities instead.

Um, the three vaccines come as one jab, that's the point - they don't separate them these days.  You're also missing the point that her kid had the MMR jab and still got measles, possibly from another kid.

You are missing the point, that her story is also hearsay

Not only that, where people can still contract measels when they have had the jab. Though its unlikely that many people do

Hence many people immunized reduces this risk greatly

This is basic common sense

Jules wrote:There's probably a disclaimer in the small print that states that in a tiny number of case - maybe 1 in a few thousands - a vaccine might not work.


This does not give the woman the right to put every other mum off. There is no such thing as a perfect vaccine. There's a Russian roulette factor. I am even willing to believe that in a tiny, minuscule  number of cases, a kid can be harmed by a particular jab - I  mean - if an allergic person can drop dead on the spot after mistakenly biting into peanut sandwich - anything is possible.    

Have a lovely day peeps, heading out.

Apparently, the failure rate is higher than that - someone mentioned it earlier.

She has the right to say what she thinks, and if it puts other mothers off, it's up to them to do their own research and make their own decision.

Jules wrote:There's probably a disclaimer in the small print that states that in a tiny number of case - maybe 1 in a few thousands - a vaccine might not work.


This does not give the woman the right to put every other mum off. There is no such thing as a perfect vaccine. There's a Russian roulette factor. I am even willing to believe that in a tiny, minuscule  number of cases, a kid can be harmed by a particular jab - I  mean - if an allergic person can drop dead on the spot after mistakenly biting into peanut sandwich - anything is possible.    

Have a lovely day peeps, heading out.

Hi Jules

One vaccine is 93% effective

Two is 97% effective

Hence the more people immunized, reduces the chances of people contracting measels

Hence its a no brainer to vaccinate

Measel outbreaks are linked to where numbers of children have not been vaccinated


As of October 6, 2018, 142 individual cases of measles have been confirmed in 25 states and the District of Columbia.

The states that have reported cases to CDC are Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, and Washington.

The majority of people who got measles were unvaccinated.
cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html

Raggamuffin wrote:

Jules wrote:There's probably a disclaimer in the small print that states that in a tiny number of case - maybe 1 in a few thousands - a vaccine might not work.


This does not give the woman the right to put every other mum off. There is no such thing as a perfect vaccine. There's a Russian roulette factor. I am even willing to believe that in a tiny, minuscule  number of cases, a kid can be harmed by a particular jab - I  mean - if an allergic person can drop dead on the spot after mistakenly biting into peanut sandwich - anything is possible.    

Have a lovely day peeps, heading out.

Apparently, the failure rate is higher than that - someone mentioned it earlier.

She has the right to say what she thinks, and if it puts other mothers off, it's up to them to do their own research and make their own decision.

That has to be the most dumbest point you have made ever

How about this mother and others actually seek advice from medical people that know what they are talking about?

She clearly does not know a thing about what she is talking about and even worse its completely irresponsible what she is promoting

Its this kind of parent that cause people to not vaccinate and an outbreak of measels then occurs

So people need to speak out against idiots like this mother

As we are talking about the lives of people

If she wants to be stupid, that is her choice, but dont then be surprised as happened here, that this ignorant mother was rightly ridiculed by the general populace

Raggamuffin wrote:

Jules wrote:
True, I can't be sure those 2 jabs worked . . . . in the exact same way the she cannot be sure they didn't work. She should criticise the one jab she had an issue with, instead of rubbishing all 3 jabs.

As for where the kid caught the measles, yes you can argue that it could have come from another vaccinated kid but what a hell of a coincidence that would be. Instead of giving weight to unlikely coincidences, let's go along with the balance of probabilities instead.

Um, the three vaccines come as one jab, that's the point - they don't separate them these days.  You're also missing the point that her kid had the MMR jab and still got measles, possibly from another kid.

I did not say the vaccines should be split up [tho, for the right fee, I bet anything that a mum could get separate jabs  but I'm not going to get drawn into all that]

She still doesn't have the right to yell from the rooftops that ''the triple jab does not work''  when it was only one out of the 3 that didn't work. She's quite mad and dangerous and deserves the contempt she got from pretty much every one.

Jules wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Um, the three vaccines come as one jab, that's the point - they don't separate them these days.  You're also missing the point that her kid had the MMR jab and still got measles, possibly from another kid.

I did not say the vaccines should be split up [tho, for the right fee, I bet anything that a mum could get separate jabs  but I'm not going to get drawn into all that]

She still doesn't have the right to yell from the rooftops that ''the triple jab does not work''  when it was only one out of the 3 that didn't work. She's quite mad and dangerous and deserves the contempt she got from pretty much every one.

She can say it if she backs that up, which she did - re the case of her own son, and some lady she spoke to who had mumps.  

As I said, you can't prove that the other two worked anyway, so it's irrelevant that it was one out of three.

I didn't say you said that the jabs should be split up.

Phildidge wrote: Hi Jules

One vaccine is 93% effective

Two is 97% effective

Hence the more people immunized, reduces the chances of people contracting measels

Hence its a no brainer to vaccinate.

Damn good point. Take the statistics & draw a graph and you'd easily see that the higher the vaccination uptake, the nearer to zero the chances of contracting measles are. The projected endpoint is 100% uptake and zero % infection in the community.


(ETA: No need to tell people they are stupid idiots whenever they disagree with you tho.  Uncalled for, Didge. )

Laters! 

Raggamuffin wrote:

Jules wrote:

I did not say the vaccines should be split up [tho, for the right fee, I bet anything that a mum could get separate jabs  but I'm not going to get drawn into all that]

She still doesn't have the right to yell from the rooftops that ''the triple jab does not work''  when it was only one out of the 3 that didn't work. She's quite mad and dangerous and deserves the contempt she got from pretty much every one.

She can say it if she backs that up, which she did - re the case of her own son, and some lady she spoke to who had mumps.  

As I said, you can't prove that the other two worked anyway, so it's irrelevant that it was one out of three.

I didn't say you said that the jabs should be split up.

What evidence did she backs this up with Rags?

Jules wrote:

Phildidge wrote: Hi Jules

One vaccine is 93% effective

Two is 97% effective

Hence the more people immunized, reduces the chances of people contracting measels

Hence its a no brainer to vaccinate.

Damn good point. Take the statistics & draw a graph and you'd easily see that the higher the vaccination uptake, the nearer to zero the chances of contracting measles are. The projected endpoint is 100% uptake and zero % infection in the community.


(ETA: No need to tell people they are stupid idiots whenever they disagree with you tho.  Uncalled for, Didge. )

Laters! 

Exactly Jules and millions of lives have been saved by this method and sadly some people cannot get their head around this

The more people immunized reduces the risk dramatically to extent that some deadly illnesses area basically erradicated

I get your point on not calling them stupid Jules, but my point is. They dont listen to what is said anyway. Even when its backed up with facts and data

Everything goes above their heads

Hence sometime ridiculing them does hit home. I am not a nasty person and do not aim to be, but sometimes when others spout views that sway people and thus endanger lives. To me, all civility is thrown out of the window. As its like trying to debate religious fanatics

I take on board your point though and have a wonderful day

Raggamuffin wrote:If the lady's son got measles after the MMR, it's reasonable for her to think that the MMR vaccine doesn't work.

I think that having three vaccines in one is too much, but that's just my opinion.

Vaccinations have their place, of course they do. But I do think what you say is right.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:If the lady's son got measles after the MMR, it's reasonable for her to think that the MMR vaccine doesn't work.

I think that having three vaccines in one is too much, but that's just my opinion.

Vaccinations have their place, of course they do.  But I do think what you say is right.  

So what place do they have to someone bat shit crazy as yourself?

Raggamuffin wrote:It's like saying that the flu jab must work if someone doesn't get flu. I didn't have flu last year, or the year before that, or the year before that, etc, and yet I didn't have the flu jab those years.

Most people born or living before 1957 are immune to measles, simply because they've already had it.

I'm quoting that btw.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:It's like saying that the flu jab must work if someone doesn't get flu. I didn't have flu last year, or the year before that, or the year before that, etc, and yet I didn't have the flu jab those years.

Most people born or living  before 1957 are immune to measles, simply because they've already had it.

I'm quoting that btw.

What a fucking imbicille

So if they are immune, they why are tens of thousands dying each year?

Many people are not dying in the west becasue?