What Could God do about Evil?

by Guest Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:54 am

First topic message reminder :

My post “Evil: Still no Good Answers” has provoked a lively discussion with over 200 comments. Theistic commentators naturally want to argue that there are indeed plausible reasons for God to permit evil, even evils of the magnitude, extent, and variety that we find in the actual world. A common theme of these replies is to demand that those who pose atheological arguments from evil must state realistic alternatives. How, specifically, might God have eliminated or alleviated the moral or natural evil of the world? It is easy enough, they imply, to bemoan the world’s evils, but if this complaint is to have substance, if it is to be more than a cri de coeur, then there has to be some plausible account of just how the world could have had less evil without also eliminating the greatest goods.

It is the case that evils and goods are connected in intricate ways so that some goods, indeed, some of the most important ones can only arise in the face of evils, and eliminating those evils would also cost us the related goods. For instance, it is easy to imagine a universe that would be a hedonistic paradise with no travail, hardship, or challenge and with well-fed, healthy creatures living lives of ease and never having a pain or enduring a want that is not instantly gratified. But such a life would only be a sort of Brave New World of self-indulgence and selfishness populated by lazy sybarites who dream nothing, achieve nothing, have no deep thoughts or feelings, and experience no great triumphs. A world with no pains, frustrations, or heartbreak, where a comfortable life requires no effort and nothing bad ever happens to anyone would also be a world in which nothing would matter, there would be no greatness or nobility, and everyone would be an over privileged, spoiled, useless nonentity (think the “affluenza” teen).

- See more at: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2016/01/20/what-could-god-do-about-evil/#sthash.4xz104OS.dpuf

Plenty more to read on the link

by veya_victaous Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:18 pm

Didge wrote:If perfection means an ultimate, then how can perfection be chaos, if then that chaos can destroy itself? That is not perfection, hence why chaos can never be classed as perftion. To obtain a goal, as perfection is, the goal would never be to destroy yourself, as you would never obtain pefection, as to die is very easy. The only challenge death has, is not fearing it and chaos requires fear.

Or it is perfect and you are not, thus cannot comprehend the true nature of perfection because you only view it from this one perspective, that of a hairless ape on a little rock floating around a smaller than average star.

And I am not saying it is! Only proposing what is a possibility, if you will not look at what is possible then you act contradictory to the ideal of science and the seeking of knowledge. You learn more from having considered a proposition and understanding why it is wrong than merely dismissing and idea because its value is not immediately apparent

Plus Chaos itself is the opposite of fear it is pure unadulterated freedom with no restraints on its potential, Chaos is both life and death chaos is potentially all things, the Universe itself is often called 'a Symphony of Chaos' in physics.
‘Obviously Chaotic situations’ can induce fear in mortals, but to Chaos it’s self it is but what it is.

Homo sapiens existence at all is due to the chaotic nature on the universe that wiped out the dinosaurs, if the rock didn’t collide with ours mammals never would have adapted to situations beyond that in which a rat can currently inhabit. Anything that got larger lost the ability to hide and got eaten by the already large dinosaurs.

by Raggamuffin Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:20 pm

stardesk wrote:Hi Didge, thanks for defending me. I don't suppose Raggy can help it.

RAGGY, this is a discussion and, like all discussions no matter what the subject matter, you will always find people of different opinions. Thus, in these discussions I say what I believe and you of course say what you believe, hence we are at cross-purposes. I'm not being rude to Creationists, just trying to get them to see that the belief in a god is a primitive myth, and bears no relationship to reality. OK my friend?

Hi Veya, I agree with what you said, and if there be a god then he's a god of chaos.

Didge wasn't defending you, he was picking an argument with me.

I just think you have some kind of problem with those who have faith. You constantly say you don't have any, so why do you want to know why God does something or not? If you don't believe in God, I don't know why you keep asking that kind of question.

It's not your business what anyone else believes, and they don't need you to get them to see anything.

by Guest Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:22 pm

Flawed reasoning
If life has no meaning, then perfection cannot exist, as only death would be perfection an then render life as meaningless and then having no reason to exist or live. You could then achieve perfection by cheating, by doing nothing yourself and for others to do.
Hence chaos is not perfection, as its easy to obtain.

by Guest Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:23 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
stardesk wrote:Hi Didge, thanks for defending me. I don't suppose Raggy can help it.

RAGGY, this is a discussion and, like all discussions no matter what the subject matter, you will always find people of different opinions. Thus, in these discussions I say what I believe and you of course say what you believe, hence we are at cross-purposes. I'm not being rude to Creationists, just trying to get them to see that the belief in a god is a primitive myth, and bears no relationship to reality. OK my friend?

Hi Veya, I agree with what you said, and if there be a god then he's a god of chaos.

Didge wasn't defending you, he was picking an argument with me.

I just think you have some kind of problem with those who have faith. You constantly say you don't have any, so why do you want to know why God does something or not? If you don't believe in God, I don't know why you keep asking that kind of question.

It's not your business what anyone else believes, and they don't need you to get them to see anything.

Do not lie you skank

I was defending Stardesk

by Raggamuffin Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:24 pm

Stardesk is like one of those religious people who keep knocking at doors trying to convert people. He's trying to get religious people to lose their faith though - probably because he resents them having any faith.

by Raggamuffin Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:25 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wasn't defending you, he was picking an argument with me.

I just think you have some kind of problem with those who have faith. You constantly say you don't have any, so why do you want to know why God does something or not? If you don't believe in God, I don't know why you keep asking that kind of question.

It's not your business what anyone else believes, and they don't need you to get them to see anything.

Do not lie you skank

I was defending Stardesk

Stop lying, you violent thug.

by Guest Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:28 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

Do not lie you skank

I was defending Stardesk

Stop lying, you violent thug.

I eposed you from lying a he knows I was defending him and yet you lied tryimg to claim otherwise

So stop being a lying twat

by Raggamuffin Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:30 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Stop lying, you violent thug.

I eposed you from lying a he knows I was defending him and yet you lied tryimg to claim otherwise

So stop being a lying twat

I know you weren't defending him though, so you're the lying twat. cheers

by Guest Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:31 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

I eposed you from lying a he knows I was defending him and yet you lied tryimg to claim otherwise

So stop being a lying twat

I know you weren't defending him though, so you're the lying twat.

Well I know I was

Stardesk knows I was

Leaving you looking the right dummy lol Laughing

by Raggamuffin Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:32 pm

Stardesk is an anti-religious bigot. If he can't defend himself when challenged on his bigotry, he's also a bit of a wet lettuce. Razz

by Guest Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:35 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Stardesk is an anti-religious bigot. If he can't defend himself when challenged on his bigotry, he's also a bit of a wet lettuce.

Your views are subjective based on pure hatred, as you oppose anything that contests you with hatred

Oh dear, did I make you look an idiot again?

by Raggamuffin Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:38 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Stardesk is an anti-religious bigot. If he can't defend himself when challenged on his bigotry, he's also a bit of a wet lettuce.

Your views are subjective based on pure hatred, as you oppose anything that contests you with hatred

Oh dear, did I make you look an idiot again?

You're also an anti-religious bigot. You and Stardesk want to convert people to being atheists because you can't bear people with faith to be happy. Why the pair of you can't mind your own business is a mystery. I bet you would object if anyone tried to convert you to Islam. clappy

by Guest Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:40 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

Your views are subjective based on pure hatred, as you oppose anything that contests you with hatred

Oh dear, did I make you look an idiot again?

You're also an anti-religious bigot. You and Stardesk want to convert people to being atheists because you can't bear people with faith to be happy. Why the pair of you can't mind your own business is a mystery. I bet you would object if anyone tried to convert you to Islam.

So what this boils down to is that its wrong for an athiest to have a view on religion, but its okay for Christians to convert people to this calling?
Sorry did you have anything better than a hypocritical load of bullshit?

by Raggamuffin Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:42 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You're also an anti-religious bigot. You and Stardesk want to convert people to being atheists because you can't bear people with faith to be happy. Why the pair of you can't mind your own business is a mystery. I bet you would object if anyone tried to convert you to Islam.

So what this boils down to is that its wrong for an athiest to have a view on religion, but its okay for Christians to convert people to this calling?
Sorry did you have anything better than a hypocritical load of bullshit?

Stardesk doesn't just have a view on religion, he wants people with faith to stop having faith. He just said so.

by Guest Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:44 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

So what this boils down to is that its wrong for an athiest to have a view on religion, but its okay for Christians to convert people to this calling?
Sorry did you have anything better than a hypocritical load of bullshit?

Stardesk doesn't just have a view on religion, he wants people with faith to stop having faith. He just said so.

And what is wrong with that when the objective of Christianity is to make all believe?

If stardesk is wrong to try to comvert, then any religious belief is wrong to convert

So which is it?

by Raggamuffin Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:46 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Stardesk doesn't just have a view on religion, he wants people with faith to stop having faith. He just said so.

And what is wrong with that when the objective of Christianity is to make all believe?

If stardesk is wrong to try to comvert, then any religious belief is wrong to convert

So which is it?

Don't ask me - I don't ask anyone to convert to Christianity. Stardesk is trying to convert people to atheism and to his way of thinking though. I doubt that will happen any time soon - they'd have to be a bit ... you know.

by Guest Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:49 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

And what is wrong with that when the objective of Christianity is to make all believe?

If stardesk is wrong to try to comvert, then any religious belief is wrong to convert

So which is it?

Don't ask me - I don't ask anyone to convert to Christianity. Stardesk is trying to convert people to atheism and to his way of thinking though. I doubt that will happen any time soon - they'd have to be a bit ... you know.

So what you are saying is you have no reason to object to people reasoning and converting to their beliefs?

by Raggamuffin Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:51 pm

Stardesk is basically being obnoxious and intolerant about people with faith whilst pretending to merely "discuss" the subject of religion. He's a bigot.

by Guest Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:00 pm

That is your own point of view, not shared by others

by Victorismyhero Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:14 pm

either

god created evil (since he created everything) which in itself must be an act of evil, and therfore god is to some extent capable of evil

OR

evil created itself, which as an act is equal to that of god....and thus evil is ALSO a god...and the abrahamic faiths by definition are NOT monotheistic

OR its all a load of old cobblers, made up by power mad men and designed to subjugate the masses....

by veya_victaous Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:17 pm

Didge wrote:Flawed reasoning
If life has no meaning, then perfection cannot exist, as only death would be perfection an then render life as meaningless and then having no reason to exist or live. You could then achieve perfection by cheating, by doing nothing yourself and for others to do.
Hence chaos is not perfection, as its easy to obtain.

Lol

what is life?
why the fuck are you suggesting something has no meaning when you don’t even know what it is?
YOUR OPINION HAS NO MEANING, You honestly think because its purpose’s isn't apparent to your very limited intellect that 'Life has no meaning'??? you self-conceited fool

Exactly Didge, You are Just like a dumb ass Christian. trying to claim Knowledge you do not possess.
the truth is Raggs is Far reasonable in a spiritual context than you.

by veya_victaous Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:40 pm

God works in Mysterious ways
What Could God do about Evil? - Page 2 U5PhINP

by veya_victaous Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:31 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

So what this boils down to is that its wrong for an athiest to have a view on religion, but its okay for Christians to convert people to this calling?
Sorry did you have anything better than a hypocritical load of bullshit?

Stardesk doesn't just have a view on religion, he wants people with faith to stop having faith. He just said so.

And what is wrong with that when the objective of Christianity is to make all believe?

If stardesk is wrong to try to comvert, then any religious belief is wrong to convert

So which is it?

That Stardesk is as wrong to do so as Religions are!!!

honestly "2 wrongs dont make a right" is a pretty basic moral concept Suspect

What Could God do about Evil? - Page 2 QdC6pV8

by Guest Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:47 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Didge wrote:Flawed reasoning
If life has no meaning, then perfection cannot exist, as only death would be perfection an then render life as meaningless and then having no reason to exist or live. You could then achieve perfection by cheating, by doing nothing yourself and for others to do.
Hence chaos is not perfection, as its easy to obtain.

Lol

what is life?
why the fuck are you suggesting something has no meaning when you don’t even know what it is?
YOUR OPINION HAS NO MEANING, You honestly think because its purpose’s isn't apparent to your very limited intellect that 'Life has no meaning'??? you self-conceited fool

Li
Exactly Didge, You are Just like a dumb ass Christian. trying to claim Knowledge you do not possess.
the truth is Raggs is Far reasonable in a spiritual context than you.

And you wonder why I have you on ignore you ignorant c u n t, because for a simple reason you are as thick a shit and cannot even have a single debate without insulting anyone

Now fuck off and do everyone a favour and place your head in a blender, as I doubt it will effect your stupidity in anyway

If you cannot answer the points which again you evaded with childish immature bullshit then do not expect anyone to bother replying to you you fucking twat

Now you have had a reply from me and you are as fucking stupid as they come

by Guest Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:53 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Didge wrote:

And what is wrong with that when the objective of Christianity is to make all believe?

If stardesk is wrong to try to comvert, then any religious belief is wrong to convert

So which is it?

That Stardesk is as wrong to do so as Religions are!!!

honestly "2 wrongs dont make a right" is a pretty basic moral concept

Last warning, if you further derail this thread with your infantile abuse you will be reported you idiotic child

Allow adults to debate, I suggest again you fuck off you fucking idiot

Got that dumb ass, you know naff all but are just a fucking left wing regressive appeasing prick

by Raggamuffin Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:44 am

... infantile abuse ...

Allow adults to debate, I suggest again you fuck off you fucking idiot

Got that dumb ass, you know naff all but are just a fucking left wing regressive appeasing prick

by stardesk Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:01 pm

Raggy, quoting you: '
Didge wasn't defending you, he was picking an argument with me.

I just think you have some kind of problem with those who have faith. You constantly say you don't have any, so why do you want to know why God does something or not? If you don't believe in God, I don't know why you keep asking that kind of question.

It's not your business what anyone else believes, and they don't need you to get them to see anything.'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Raggy, go back to the previous page and see for yourself. Didge was defending me.

Now, let's get own to the nitty gritty stuff. Your insults are a waste of time and forum space, they'll get you knowhere for I seldom respond to insults. What people like you get out of being rude I don't know, I suppose it makes you feel big. Keep trying buddy but it falls on deaf ears.

Back to the topic. I don't resent anyone having a faith, whatever it is, but what I say in these discussions highlights the factual and false information at the roots of religion. I've proved this many times, not because I resent anyone's faith but to demonstrate they are following and believing in non-truths, fables and myths created by primitive people who didn't understand the real, physical world. They placed everything in the hands of a mythical being greater than themselves and capable of creating everything.

It's no good living a life of fantasy and makebelieve, for one day it may crumble. BTW, I don't like the name Atheist, for there are connotations of not believing anything. I musch prefer being called an Evolutionist, for that's what I believe, and for that, there is ample proof, whereas there is no proof that a god exists.

Raggy, I hope you now understand me better. I look forward to your pleasant reply.

by Raggamuffin Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:11 pm

stardesk wrote:Raggy, quoting you: '
Didge wasn't defending you, he was picking an argument with me.

I just think you have some kind of problem with those who have faith. You constantly say you don't have any, so why do you want to know why God does something or not? If you don't believe in God, I don't know why you keep asking that kind of question.

It's not your business what anyone else believes, and they don't need you to get them to see anything.'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Raggy, go back to the previous page and see for yourself. Didge was defending me.

Now, let's get own to the nitty gritty stuff. Your insults are a waste of time and forum space, they'll get you knowhere for I seldom respond to insults. What people like you get out of being rude I don't know, I suppose it makes you feel big. Keep trying buddy but it falls on deaf ears.

Back to the topic. I don't resent anyone having a faith, whatever it is, but what I say in these discussions highlights the factual and false information at the roots of religion. I've proved this many times, not because I resent anyone's faith but to demonstrate they are following and believing in non-truths, fables and myths created by primitive people who didn't understand the real, physical world. They placed everything in the hands of a mythical being greater than themselves and capable of creating everything.

It's no good living a life of fantasy and makebelieve, for one day it may crumble. BTW, I don't like the name Atheist, for there are connotations of not believing anything. I musch prefer being called an Evolutionist, for that's what I believe, and for that, there is ample proof, whereas there is no proof that a god exists.

Raggy, I hope you now understand me better. I look forward to your pleasant reply.

I haven't insulted you, I've posted what I think about your posts. If you want to interfere in people's religious faith, you should be prepared for some criticism. I don't know why you think that you're immune to being challenged.

You keep on and on and on saying that you have no religious faith, and you keep on and on and on saying that others shouldn't either. The question is - why does it bother you so much if someone does have religious faith? It's simply not up to you to tell others what they should believe. Isn't it time you answered that question?

by Guest Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:15 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
stardesk wrote:Raggy, quoting you: '
Didge wasn't defending you, he was picking an argument with me.

I just think you have some kind of problem with those who have faith. You constantly say you don't have any, so why do you want to know why God does something or not? If you don't believe in God, I don't know why you keep asking that kind of question.

It's not your business what anyone else believes, and they don't need you to get them to see anything.'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Raggy, go back to the previous page and see for yourself. Didge was defending me.

Now, let's get own to the nitty gritty stuff. Your insults are a waste of time and forum space, they'll get you knowhere for I seldom respond to insults. What people like you get out of being rude I don't know, I suppose it makes you feel big. Keep trying buddy but it falls on deaf ears.

Back to the topic. I don't resent anyone having a faith, whatever it is, but what I say in these discussions highlights the factual and false information at the roots of religion. I've proved this many times, not because I resent anyone's faith but to demonstrate they are following and believing in non-truths, fables and myths created by primitive people who didn't understand the real, physical world. They placed everything in the hands of a mythical being greater than themselves and capable of creating everything.

It's no good living a life of fantasy and makebelieve, for one day it may crumble. BTW, I don't like the name Atheist, for there are connotations of not believing anything. I musch prefer being called an Evolutionist, for that's what I believe, and for that, there is ample proof, whereas there is no proof that a god exists.

Raggy, I hope you now understand me better. I look forward to your pleasant reply.

I haven't insulted you, I've posted what I think about your posts. If you want to interfere in people's religious faith, you should be prepared for some criticism. I don't know why you think that you're immune to being challenged.

You keep on and on and on saying that you have no religious faith, and you keep on and on and on saying that others shouldn't either. The question is - why does it bother you so much if someone does have religious faith? It's simply not up to you to tell others what they should believe. Isn't it time you answered that question?

What a load of inane drivel
He wants to have a decent dialogue and you just want to act like a twat.
Why does it bother the likes of myself and others?
because religion is fundamentally dangerous allowing beliefs that fundamentally effect others

You want evidence of this?

Take your pick out of the last 2000 years

by Raggamuffin Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:17 pm

I'll await your reply Stardesk. You get an easy ride on here because people think you're a "nice chap", but that means nothing to me.

by Guest Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:18 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I'll await your reply Stardesk. You get an easy ride on here because people think you're a "nice chap", but that means nothing to me.

You mean nothing to anyone full stop and if you run from me in the debate, it shows you simply cannot answe

by stardesk Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:43 pm

Hi folks. I'll get back to this later on, right now I'm off for some lunch. See ya later.

by HoratioTarr Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:59 pm

[quote="Didge"][quote="veya_victaous"][quote="Didge"]Flawed reasoning
If life has no meaning, then perfection cannot exist, as only death would be perfection an then render life as meaningless and then having no reason to exist or live. You could then achieve perfection by cheating, by doing nothing yourself and for others to do.
Hence chaos is not perfection, as its easy to obtain.
[/quote]

Lol

what is life?
why the fuck are you suggesting something has no meaning when you don’t even know what it is?
YOUR OPINION HAS NO MEANING, You honestly think because its purpose’s isn't apparent to your very limited intellect that 'Life has no meaning'??? you self-conceited fool

Li
Exactly Didge, You are Just like a dumb ass Christian. trying to claim Knowledge you do not possess.
the truth is Raggs is Far reasonable in a spiritual context than you.[/quote]

And you wonder why I have you on ignore you ignorant c u n t, because for a simple reason you are as thick a shit and cannot even have a single debate without insulting anyone

Now fuck off and do everyone a favour and place your head in a blender, as I doubt it will effect your stupidity in anyway

If you cannot answer the points which again you evaded with childish immature bullshit then do not expect anyone to bother replying to you you fucking twat

Now you have had a reply from me and you are as fucking stupid as they come

[/quote]

Nothing brings out the worst in folks but a hot debate about God What Could God do about Evil? - Page 2 859118666

What Could God do about Evil? - Page 2 859118666

by stardesk Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:45 pm

Horatio, I think your response to Didge is a bit over the top, all we're trying to do is have a debate about the bona-fides of god and whether he really exists and, if he does, then why does he permit, and even encouraged, evilness. If you believe in god then give your reasons and try to prove his existance.

Raggy wants explanations from me on my viewpoint, but he doesn't debate, just side-stepping. This is a forum where many subjects are debated, and if people can't think logically and answer in a friendly manner I recommend somewhere like facebook etc. I've never been there but I understand that's where people enjoy being obnoxious to one-another.

I enjoy a good debate and, if ever I'm proved wrong, then I'll accept it like a mature man should, gracefully and without rude answers. Why some of you swear at each other like back-street yobs I don't know, it spoils the forum and will eventually put people off coming here. Such a shame because we've had some really good debates.

Over to you, folks. put down your spears and put on your thinking caps.

Footnote: I don't swear in these discussions but I can be sarcastic. Having said that, if you can't be adult and communicate in a friendly way then get mummy to tuck you up in bed with your teddy. Or fish out from its hiding place the girly magazine and enjoy yourself under the sheets.

by veya_victaous Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:55 pm

Didge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Didge wrote:

And what is wrong with that when the objective of Christianity is to make all believe?

If stardesk is wrong to try to comvert, then any religious belief is wrong to convert

So which is it?

That Stardesk is as wrong to do so as Religions are!!!

honestly "2 wrongs dont make a right" is a pretty basic moral concept

Last warning, if you further derail this thread with your infantile abuse you will be reported you idiotic child

Allow adults to debate, I suggest again you fuck off you fucking idiot

Got that dumb ass, you know naff all but are just a fucking left wing regressive appeasing prick

Act like HF and get treated like HF.
You think the world will be perfect if everyone follows Your beleif system
No different than a fucking crusader !!!
Except you fail and surrender straight away in the first battle because you are lowly to keep up. Razz

by veya_victaous Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:04 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I'll await your reply Stardesk. You get an easy ride on here because people think you're a "nice chap", but that means nothing to me.

As much as i hate some of your opinion, I do like your fighting spirit.
What Could God do about Evil? - Page 2 1589716573

bit wasted of didge though, I'm not sure if he can think or just repeat fairly mundane arguments that he read and then he gets all 'crusader/inquisition' if anyone doesn't immediate bow down and accept the quote from some dude he has proclaimed a saint, even if it is fairly easy to demonstrate the fault or hypocrisy in the logic.

You can see how fundamentalism is spread in looking at the mind of men like didge, the ideas and ideals he promotes the total intolerance of any opposition to his assertions about the universe, even to point out he doesn't know because mankind doesn’t know that and he get all "Kill the Blasphemer"

by veya_victaous Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:06 pm

stardesk wrote:Horatio, I think your response to Didge is a bit over the top, all we're trying to do is have a debate about the bona-fides of god and whether he really exists and, if he does, then why does he permit, and even encouraged, evilness. If you believe in god then give your reasons and try to prove his existance.

Raggy wants explanations from me on my viewpoint, but he doesn't debate, just side-stepping. This is a forum where many subjects are debated, and if people can't think logically and answer in a friendly manner I recommend somewhere like facebook etc. I've never been there but I understand that's where people enjoy being obnoxious to one-another.

I enjoy a good debate and, if ever I'm proved wrong, then I'll accept it like a mature man should, gracefully and without rude answers. Why some of you swear at each other like back-street yobs I don't know, it spoils the forum and will eventually put people off coming here. Such a shame because we've had some really good debates.

Over to you, folks. put down your spears and put on your thinking caps.

Footnote: I don't swear in these discussions but I can be sarcastic. Having said that, if you can't be adult and communicate in a friendly way then get mummy to tuck you up in bed with your teddy. Or fish out from its hiding place the girly magazine and enjoy yourself under the sheets.

Most of the post is MY comments and I swear, I am Australian and it is the way we speak

stop trying to oppress the rest of the world with your 'English Sensibilities'

Plus Didge call peoepl saknks and ---- in this thread so he has no right to complain of offensive language

by Guest Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:11 pm

stardesk wrote:Horatio, I think your response to Didge is a bit over the top, all we're trying to do is have a debate about the bona-fides of god and whether he really exists and, if he does, then why does he permit, and even encouraged, evilness. If you believe in god then give your reasons and try to prove his existance.

Raggy wants explanations from me on my viewpoint, but he doesn't debate, just side-stepping. This is a forum where many subjects are debated, and if people can't think logically and answer in a friendly manner I recommend somewhere like facebook etc. I've never been there but I understand that's where people enjoy being obnoxious to one-another.

I enjoy a good debate and, if ever I'm proved wrong, then I'll accept it like a mature man should, gracefully and without rude answers. Why some of you swear at each other like back-street yobs I don't know, it spoils the forum and will eventually put people off coming here. Such a shame because we've had some really good debates.

Over to you, folks. put down your spears and put on your thinking caps.

Footnote: I don't swear in these discussions but I can be sarcastic. Having said that, if you can't be adult and communicate in a friendly way then get mummy to tuck you up in bed with your teddy. Or fish out from its hiding place the girly magazine and enjoy yourself under the sheets.

Exactly buddy, just trying to debate the points nd you often have those who are religious get nasty, abusive, just for questioning the many different belief systems. I mean earlier I was told its wrong for you to teach a religion is wrong and its also wrong for a religious person to convert someone, which of course is absolute gibberish. As how else to do you reform criminals for example, unless you are able to convert them? Or a previous racist, you had to convince them racism is wrong and you would do this with reason. The only time this should have any reason where it could be classed as wrong or criminality is where children are indoctrinated with incitement to hate and even kill. Those caught doing this should be charged with child abuse, but normally there is absolutely nothing wrong with reasoning your ideals and beliefs and it says more about those who say this is wrong to challenge or change someones view. That persson who fears or states to not allow, clearly they must already have doubt. As strong faith is not clouded by doub, which we have seen with those very religious, they are strong in faith and have no doubt. Which is why its hard to convert someone with strong faith. So anyone religious or havving a belief system in gods, is then fearing reason, and already suffers from doubt in their beliefs. Someone strong in faith is not afraid defend their faith. Its only those who alread start to doubt who can be converted either to religion or to another religion, or to leave religion at all.

Never allow anyone to claim you can not reason and challenge beliefs buddy

Have a good evening

by HoratioTarr Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:26 pm

[quote="stardesk"]Horatio, I think your response to Didge is a bit over the top, all we're trying to do is have a debate about the bona-fides of god and whether he really exists and, if he does, then why does he permit, and even encouraged, evilness. If you believe in god then give your reasons and try to prove his existance.

Raggy wants explanations from me on my viewpoint, but he doesn't debate, just side-stepping. This is a forum where many subjects are debated, and if people can't think logically and answer in a friendly manner I recommend somewhere like facebook etc. I've never been there but I understand that's where people enjoy being obnoxious to one-another.

I enjoy a good debate and, if ever I'm proved wrong, then I'll accept it like a mature man should, gracefully and without rude answers. Why some of you swear at each other like back-street yobs I don't know, it spoils the forum and will eventually put people off coming here. Such a shame because we've had some really good debates.

Over to you, folks. put down your spears and put on your thinking caps.

Footnote: I don't swear in these discussions but I can be sarcastic. Having said that, if you can't be adult and communicate in a friendly way then get mummy to tuck you up in bed with your teddy. Or fish out from its hiding place the girly magazine and enjoy yourself under the sheets.[/quote]

I'm just being lighthearted, not having a go at anyone in particular.

How does one prove the existence of 'God'? The same way one would try to describe the colour blue to a blind man, I suppose. How would you go about that, exactly?

I'm not sure I believe in the God of the Bible, as I don't agree or subscribe to religion. However, I do think mankind needs to be more open to inner spirituality and a belief that there is more to the Universe than we yet know. God as we know it, is a man thing, created in our image rather than the other way around. God as a divine and all powerful energy might be nearer to the truth. The great debate of 'why does God allow' is erroneous if one considers God as a natural force of nature or universal energy. When was the last time a thunderclap cured someone of cancer? Whilst there are many disasters and atrocities in this world, mostly man made, there are equally many miracles, so perhaps in reality things are kind of even'd out.

by HoratioTarr Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:30 pm

[quote="stardesk"]Horatio, I think your response to Didge is a bit over the top, all we're trying to do is have a debate about the bona-fides of god and whether he really exists and, if he does, then why does he permit, and even encouraged, evilness. If you believe in god then give your reasons and try to prove his existance.

.[/quote]

BTW, do you think calling someone a c.u.n.t. is having an intelligent debate?

by veya_victaous Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:34 pm

HT wrote:How does one prove the existence of 'God'? The same way one would try to describe the colour blue to a blind man, I suppose. How would you go about that, exactly?

I'm not sure I believe in the God of the Bible, as I don't agree or subscribe to religion. However, I do think mankind needs to be more open to inner spirituality and a belief that there is more to the Universe than we yet know. God as we know it, is a man thing, created in our image rather than the other way around. God as a divine and all powerful energy might be nearer to the truth. The great debate of 'why does God allow' is erroneous if one considers God as a natural force of nature or universal energy. When was the last time a thunderclap cured someone of cancer? Whilst there are many disasters and atrocities in this world, mostly man made, there are equally many miracles, so perhaps in reality things are kind of even'd out.

I like that, and 100% Agree.
"there is more to the Universe than we yet know"

by Raggamuffin Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:16 pm

stardesk wrote:Horatio, I think your response to Didge is a bit over the top, all we're trying to do is have a debate about the bona-fides of god and whether he really exists and, if he does, then why does he permit, and even encouraged, evilness. If you believe in god then give your reasons and try to prove his existance.

Raggy wants explanations from me on my viewpoint, but he doesn't debate, just side-stepping. This is a forum where many subjects are debated, and if people can't think logically and answer in a friendly manner I recommend somewhere like facebook etc. I've never been there but I understand that's where people enjoy being obnoxious to one-another.

I enjoy a good debate and, if ever I'm proved wrong, then I'll accept it like a mature man should, gracefully and without rude answers. Why some of you swear at each other like back-street yobs I don't know, it spoils the forum and will eventually put people off coming here. Such a shame because we've had some really good debates.

Over to you, folks. put down your spears and put on your thinking caps.

Footnote: I don't swear in these discussions but I can be sarcastic. Having said that, if you can't be adult and communicate in a friendly way then get mummy to tuck you up in bed with your teddy. Or fish out from its hiding place the girly magazine and enjoy yourself under the sheets.

You're the one who's side stepping. I've asked you to explain why you feel the need to persuade those with faith that they should lose their faith, and you seem to be unable to explain.

If you can't explain, you could just say so.

It's strange that you think I'm male - I keep thinking that you're female. Surprised

by veya_victaous Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:17 pm

Regarding "God made us"

What Could God do about Evil? - Page 2 NO07vLZ

by Guest Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:23 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
stardesk wrote:Horatio, I think your response to Didge is a bit over the top, all we're trying to do is have a debate about the bona-fides of god and whether he really exists and, if he does, then why does he permit, and even encouraged, evilness. If you believe in god then give your reasons and try to prove his existance.

Raggy wants explanations from me on my viewpoint, but he doesn't debate, just side-stepping. This is a forum where many subjects are debated, and if people can't think logically and answer in a friendly manner I recommend somewhere like facebook etc. I've never been there but I understand that's where people enjoy being obnoxious to one-another.

I enjoy a good debate and, if ever I'm proved wrong, then I'll accept it like a mature man should, gracefully and without rude answers. Why some of you swear at each other like back-street yobs I don't know, it spoils the forum and will eventually put people off coming here. Such a shame because we've had some really good debates.

Over to you, folks. put down your spears and put on your thinking caps.

Footnote: I don't swear in these discussions but I can be sarcastic. Having said that, if you can't be adult and communicate in a friendly way then get mummy to tuck you up in bed with your teddy. Or fish out from its hiding place the girly magazine and enjoy yourself under the sheets.

You're the one who's side stepping. I've asked you to explain why you feel the need to persuade those with faith that they should lose their faith, and you seem to be unable to explain.

If you can't explain, you could just say so.

Well I have tried to explain to you.

Is it not right to teach people right from wrong based not on gobbledygook, which is what religion is and actually based on reason

He explained himself, you just made the most pathetic weasel reply to his points.

Religion is at the end of the day a form of control in each and every denomination.

It does not allow freedom of thought and only allows especially within the Abraham faiths, blind obedience.

So you tell me Rags, should we just teach English history and its language based on blind obedience and faith?

Of where fundamentally we all allow all forms of view but reasoning whay a faith or beliefs is wrong and conflicts?

Religions are just ideologies for good or for bad and in both Islam and Christianity, the economics is okay, but the social views on non-believers and what punishment awaits these people, proves why again religious people are in fact blinded by misguided faith.

by Raggamuffin Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:27 pm

I'm not interested in what you think Didge, I'm asking Stardesk.

by Guest Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:31 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
stardesk wrote:Horatio, I think your response to Didge is a bit over the top, all we're trying to do is have a debate about the bona-fides of god and whether he really exists and, if he does, then why does he permit, and even encouraged, evilness. If you believe in god then give your reasons and try to prove his existance.

.

BTW, do you think calling someone a c.u.n.t. is having an intelligent debate?

No its not an intelligence response, its an angry response to allowing myself to be come emotionally compromised of which I myself an only to blame, but hey, please specify, on where I have used an offensive word whilst ignoring countless others to make some rather insignificant point.

All it seems you are doing is trying to stir one way or the other, so how about you actually inject some input into the debate, rather than trying to instead be no more than a pathetic little shit stirrer.

Now If I am wrong please forgive my abusive nature, but quite frankly as you have added zero to the debate so far, I will have to just simple conclude you only jumped on here to be an inane shit stirring plonker

Abuse is subjective and when any reason has left the debate, tempers flair up, but I am sure you are well of aware of that when you debate elsewhere.

Now anything else, or would you like to actually contribute to the thread other than rendering your own replies even worse and poorer than abuse itself?

by Guest Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:33 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I'm not interested in what you think Didge, I'm asking Stardesk.

Whoop de doo and I just answered your failed reasoning Rags.

by veya_victaous Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:39 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I'm not interested in what you think Didge, I'm asking Stardesk.

I don’t think Stardesk is dumb enough to post the rubbish Didge does Rolling Eyes

HE has not done anything in the thread but say he is right cause he says so never actually back any of his statements is sound reasoning.
And abuse anyone that disagree or suggest maybe he doesn’t know

He even is being rude to HT for pointing out that didge does not know everything in the universe
didge doesn’t seem to accept this fact. Rolling Eyes

by Raggamuffin Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:42 pm

A lot of people object to religious people trying to "convert" them, but if an atheist tries to convert a religious person, that seems to be OK. Stardesk hasn't been talking about the ways in which religion can harm others, he just seems to object to anyone merely having religious faith, and I don't know why it bothers him so much.

by Guest Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:45 pm

Still, the usual crap from Veya

He cannot reason against my views just tiries to deligitimise me

lol

Poor boy

So thanks for all your bollocks Veya, what you failed to do is as always is being to address my points

Why I have minus respect for someone as dumb as you

A person of reason would not do as you do and look for excuses but raeason the points made, not the poster

That is how I know I easily flaw your views

Suck it up bucko

And any abuse after this from you just proves me further right

See ya later little boy lo

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