What Could God do about Evil?

by Guest Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:54 am

First topic message reminder :

My post “Evil: Still no Good Answers” has provoked a lively discussion with over 200 comments. Theistic commentators naturally want to argue that there are indeed plausible reasons for God to permit evil, even evils of the magnitude, extent, and variety that we find in the actual world. A common theme of these replies is to demand that those who pose atheological arguments from evil must state realistic alternatives. How, specifically, might God have eliminated or alleviated the moral or natural evil of the world? It is easy enough, they imply, to bemoan the world’s evils, but if this complaint is to have substance, if it is to be more than a cri de coeur, then there has to be some plausible account of just how the world could have had less evil without also eliminating the greatest goods.

It is the case that evils and goods are connected in intricate ways so that some goods, indeed, some of the most important ones can only arise in the face of evils, and eliminating those evils would also cost us the related goods. For instance, it is easy to imagine a universe that would be a hedonistic paradise with no travail, hardship, or challenge and with well-fed, healthy creatures living lives of ease and never having a pain or enduring a want that is not instantly gratified. But such a life would only be a sort of Brave New World of self-indulgence and selfishness populated by lazy sybarites who dream nothing, achieve nothing, have no deep thoughts or feelings, and experience no great triumphs. A world with no pains, frustrations, or heartbreak, where a comfortable life requires no effort and nothing bad ever happens to anyone would also be a world in which nothing would matter, there would be no greatness or nobility, and everyone would be an over privileged, spoiled, useless nonentity (think the “affluenza” teen).

- See more at: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2016/01/20/what-could-god-do-about-evil/#sthash.4xz104OS.dpuf

Plenty more to read on the link

by Guest Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:03 pm

aspca4ever wrote:
stardesk stated >>> That last sentence applies to we humans. We are overpopulating the planet and the larder will soon be empty, but, I often think that natural disasters and disease-epidemics are a way of Nature hitting back and trying to control our numbers.

Given the most recent viruses promoted & spread by both the minute tick population {Lymes/RockyMountainSpottedFever/BourbonCoTick virus} and 2 other new mutations...as well as the mosquito {Zika/Dengue/yellow fever or West Nile/Chikungunya viruses}...it would appear that the smallest of our insect world is working over time to CULL THE HERD OF HUMANITY! Besides the rapid climate changes that are forcing immediate changes in production vegetable planting seasons --- it's making the 'Dooms-Day-Sayers' hit hyper speed.

I think you have very little faith in humanity, which no matter its many faults, has come on leaps and bounds over its in reality very short history on this planet.Pessimism is never a good trait when as seen humanity has already once in the earths history, pulled itself out of the very brink of extinction. Also humanity has the ability to conolonise if its too late to salvage the atmosphere, but then they could alo look to develope cities under the sea as there is no doubt humans will havethe capacity to do this. I think you give up all to easy on humans, no matter their failings, others strive hard to ensure a brighter future for all. Can humans learn from their mistakes? Of course they can and they do. The problem at the moment is that hardly any are looking to work and help each other collectivelly. That is still a time yet to come, but itwill happen and we have seen glimpses of this through events in history.

by stardesk Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:11 pm

DIDGE, it's not a question of giving up on humanity, it's more to do with being logical and looking at the world with open minds.

Afternoon folks. I coldn't find the piece I was looking for but I did find the following which you might find interesting.

HARDWIRED FOR GOD.

Some scientists have recently produced research to show that the human brain is predisposed or hardwired for belief in God. According to British academics human beings are programmed to believe in God because it gives them a better chance of survival. A 2009 study by Bruce Hood, professor of developmental psychology, into the way children’s brains develop, suggests that during the process of evolution, those people with religious tendencies began to benefit from their beliefs, possibly by working in groups to ensure the future of their community. As a consequence, supernatural beliefs became hard-wired into our brains from birth, leaving us receptive to the claims of religious organizations.

Prof Hood’s research shows that children have a natural, intuitive way of reasoning that leads them to all kinds of supernatural beliefs about how the world works. As they grow up they overlay these beliefs with more rational approaches, but the tendency to illogical supernatural beliefs remains as religion.

The Centre for the Science of the Mind at Oxford University have uncovered evidence linking religious feelings to particular parts of the brain. Devout Catholics shown a picture of the Virgin Mary experienced less pain when given an electric shock than non-believers, because they underwent a greater degree of deadening activity in the right ventrolateral frontal cortex of the brain.

by Guest Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:19 pm

stardesk wrote:DIDGE, it's not a question of giving up on humanity, it's more to do with being logical and looking at the world with open minds.

Afternoon folks. I coldn't find the piece I was looking for but I did find the following which you might find interesting.

HARDWIRED FOR GOD.

Some scientists have recently produced research to show that the human brain is predisposed or hardwired for belief in God. According to British academics human beings are programmed to believe in God because it gives them a better chance of survival. A 2009 study by Bruce Hood, professor of developmental psychology, into the way children’s brains develop, suggests that during the process of evolution, those people with religious tendencies began to benefit from their beliefs, possibly by working in groups to ensure the future of their community. As a consequence, supernatural beliefs became hard-wired into our brains from birth, leaving us receptive to the claims of religious organizations.

Prof Hood’s research shows that children have a natural, intuitive way of reasoning that leads them to all kinds of supernatural beliefs about how the world works. As they grow up they overlay these beliefs with more rational approaches, but the tendency to illogical supernatural beliefs remains as religion.

The Centre for the Science of the Mind at Oxford University have uncovered evidence linking religious feelings to particular parts of the brain. Devout Catholics shown a picture of the Virgin Mary experienced less pain when given an electric shock than non-believers, because they underwent a greater degree of deadening activity in the right ventrolateral frontal cortex of the brain.

Interesting article and the very premise of what all species look for; whether it be a 'Pack Leader' within a canine group or a herd leader in the equine/bovine/goat/sheep or a flock leader within the poultry flock... animal kingdom is so much geared toward the need to maintain a #1 to follow.

Perhaps hidden deeply recesses within our brains is just geared in that way too...someone to fall back on/look up too! That ole' saying; 'turn it all over to GOD and allow him to carry our burdens' seem apropos to the reason so many humans just so quickly give up on their ability and purpose for 'free will thinking'...that follow the pack mentality certainly can create numerous moments of bad events.

by eddie Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:39 pm

I think religion brings most people a sense of belonging and comfort.
Can't see anything wrong with that

by stardesk Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:49 pm

Hi Eddie. I have no objection to people being religious but, and a big BUT, it is the indoctrination and brain-washing of youngsters I don't like. As they grow up they should be allowed to find their own way, in doing so it may entail research and studying making them stronger and leading to a better understanding of life and all its vagiaries, able to stand on their own two feet and take control of their lives. It's no good relying on a god to help you through life, for you will still have bad days as well as good one. As I said earlier you can't have positive without negative. God doesn't really come into it, if so then he's the negative force.

by Raggamuffin Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:52 pm

stardesk wrote:Hi Eddie. I have no objection to people being religious but, and a big BUT, it is the indoctrination and brain-washing of youngsters I don't like. As they grow up they should be allowed to find their own way, in doing so it may entail research and studying making them stronger and leading to a better understanding of life and all its vagiaries, able to stand on their own two feet and take control of their lives. It's no good relying on a god to help you through life, for you will still have bad days as well as good one. As I said earlier you can't have positive without negative. God doesn't really come into it, if so then he's the negative force.

*sigh*

The point is that those with faith think that relying on God is a good thing. They don't think they won't have bad days either. Why can't you just accept that some people actually like having religious faith?

by Guest Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:00 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
stardesk wrote:Hi Eddie. I have no objection to people being religious but, and a big BUT, it is the indoctrination and brain-washing of youngsters I don't like. As they grow up they should be allowed to find their own way, in doing so it may entail research and studying making them stronger and leading to a better understanding of life and all its vagiaries, able to stand on their own two feet and take control of their lives. It's no good relying on a god to help you through life, for you will still have bad days as well as good one. As I said earlier you can't have positive without negative. God doesn't really come into it, if so then he's the negative force.

*sigh*

The point is that those with faith think that relying on God is a good thing. They don't think they won't have bad days either. Why can't you just accept that some people actually like having religious faith?

He just did, he said he had no objection except indoctrination and brain washing of children
He is right, its wrong to confuse children with religion,.
Personal faith is not the issue, organised religion in how it imposes its view on others is an issue.
The biggest problem with religion is that people take works written by men centuries ago, which are clearly the thoughts and views of men and not something of supreme intelligence as it certainly would not be controlled by emotions. Is that some take these verses as an absolute moral and that is dangerous. As it is not challenged by the individual and taken as law.

by Raggamuffin Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:00 pm

Predictable ...

by Guest Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:06 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Predictable ...

Your mistakes?

Yes I know

by Guest Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:59 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

*sigh*

The point is that those with faith think that relying on God is a good thing. They don't think they won't have bad days either. Why can't you just accept that some people actually like having religious faith?

He just did, he said he had no objection except indoctrination and brain washing of children
He is right, its wrong to confuse children with religion,.
Personal faith is not the issue, organised religion in how it imposes its view on others is an issue.
The biggest problem with religion is that people take works written by men centuries ago, which are clearly the thoughts and views of men and not something of supreme intelligence as it certainly would not be controlled by emotions. Is that some take these verses as an absolute moral and that is dangerous. As it is not challenged by the individual and taken as law.

WOWSERS...you've just encapsulated my entire mantra for life --- don't

What Could God do about Evil? - Page 5 Thud-faint-smiley-emoticon

But as with anything 'Faith Based' it's a hot button topic that leaves 'SOME' without a wide range ability to view the entire spectrum of what we discuss and how we approach the issues that FAITH involves...often the smaller minded/narrow vision humanoid only perceive any difference of opinion as ATTACKING Wink

by stardesk Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:28 pm

Didge, I now ignore such childish imature comments from him and others, otherwise if you reply in like-kind it just brings more rubbish and spoils the topic. Thanks again for your support.

Hi Aspca, I'm going to start another topic in the religious category showing how religious people believe in 'The God of Chaos,' for that's what he is. Not so long ago I had a Witness at my door and I put several chaos facts to him and I did laugh at him when he said: 'It's all Satan's fault.' If that was/is the case then Satan is more powerful than God if he's able to damage his creations.

Hope to see you all there, hopefully I start it tomorrow. Bye for now.

by Raggamuffin Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:33 pm

stardesk wrote:Didge, I now ignore such childish imature comments from him and others, otherwise if you reply in like-kind it just brings more rubbish and spoils the topic. Thanks again for your support.

Hi Aspca, I'm going to start another topic in the religious category showing how religious people believe in 'The God of Chaos,' for that's what he is. Not so long ago I had a Witness at my door and I put several chaos facts to him and I did laugh at him when he said: 'It's all Satan's fault.' If that was/is the case then Satan is more powerful than God if he's able to damage his creations.

Hope to see you all there, hopefully I start it tomorrow. Bye for now.

What were you saying about people standing on their own two feet? You seem unable to do that without Didge holding your hand. It won't make a difference to me if Didge "supports" you. If you're bigoted and patronising about people with faith, I'll tell you.

by veya_victaous Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:36 pm

stardesk wrote:Hi Eddie. I have no objection to people being religious but, and a big BUT, it is the indoctrination and brain-washing of youngsters I don't like. As they grow up they should be allowed to find their own way, in doing so it may entail research and studying making them stronger and leading to a better understanding of life and all its vagiaries, able to stand on their own two feet and take control of their lives. It's no good relying on a god to help you through life, for you will still have bad days as well as good one. As I said earlier you can't have positive without negative. God doesn't really come into it, if so then he's the negative force.

Well I hope You speak out against Sam Harris and his brain washed(dead) followers like Didge Or you are a Hypocrite. Since they seek nothing but to indoctrinate into their new hate, merely a revenge cycle new group of violent hairless apes sees a chance to hurt those that it perceives as different to itself. Blames them for all the wrongs and evil and tries Justifies any inhumanity against them.

by HoratioTarr Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:41 am

eddie wrote:I think religion brings most people a sense of belonging and comfort.
Can't see anything wrong with that

It's about respect, and accepting differences in people. Same thing when you are considering someone's race or sexuality. I personally don't believe in the Bible, but I can appreciate that it also has words of wisdom mixed up with the hypocrisy and that some of it, particularly the teachings of Jesus, can give great comfort to those who believe in it.
I'm not religious, as you can see, but that doesn't mean to say I don't believe in some higher energy, or the power of love and light. Equally, I respect someone's right to not believe.

by Guest Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:56 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
eddie wrote:I think religion brings most people a sense of belonging and comfort.
Can't see anything wrong with that

It's about respect, and accepting differences in people. Same thing when you are considering someone's race or sexuality. I personally don't believe in the Bible, but I can appreciate that it also has words of wisdom mixed up with the hypocrisy and that some of it, particularly the teachings of Jesus, can give great comfort to those who believe in it.
I'm not religious, as you can see, but that doesn't mean to say I don't believe in some higher energy, or the power of love and light. Equally, I respect someone's right to not believe.

Personally, I've found and learned at a early age:
To question the preacher/priest/tent revival ranting speaker about his 'choice' of bible reference wasn't socially acceptable and would bring such rapid indignation down upon a young head --- DO NOT QUESTION BIBLE RANTING ADULTS...even when the reference point/text/chapter/verse they used was NOT WHAT THE BIBLE STATED. scratch

The simple question of WWJD '?'...is just far to easily asked but will cause so much angst and knee-jerk hysteria from the soap box speaker!
And given our 'Right vs Left' political rhetoric here in America --- that simple question often leaves the Bible Thumper Extremist with BRAIN FREEZE! What Could God do about Evil? - Page 5 1716015268

What Could God do about Evil? - Page 5 1716015268

by Eilzel Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:44 pm

eddie wrote:I think religion brings most people a sense of belonging and comfort.
Can't see anything wrong with that

IF that was all it was ever used as I'd have no problem with it either.

by eddie Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:26 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
eddie wrote:I think religion brings most people a sense of belonging and comfort.
Can't see anything wrong with that

It's about respect, and accepting differences in people. Same thing when you are considering someone's race or sexuality. I personally don't believe in the Bible, but I can appreciate that it also has words of wisdom mixed up with the hypocrisy and that some of it, particularly the teachings of Jesus, can give great comfort to those who believe in it.
I'm not religious, as you can see, but that doesn't mean to say I don't believe in some higher energy, or the power of love and light. Equally, I respect someone's right to not believe.

Exactly how I feel.

by Guest Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:33 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
eddie wrote:I think religion brings most people a sense of belonging and comfort.
Can't see anything wrong with that

It's about respect, and accepting differences in people. Same thing when you are considering someone's race or sexuality. I personally don't believe in the Bible, but I can appreciate that it also has words of wisdom mixed up with the hypocrisy and that some of it, particularly the teachings of Jesus, can give great comfort to those who believe in it.
I'm not religious, as you can see, but that doesn't mean to say I don't believe in some higher energy, or the power of love and light. Equally, I respect someone's right to not believe.

Religions are ideologies as well as beliefs

Racism is an ideology and a belief

Do you have respect for racist beliefs?

by stardesk Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:45 pm

Hi Didge, I don't think you should include racism along with religion, for it is far more an emotive issue and belief than religious faith.

by Guest Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:50 pm

stardesk wrote:Hi Didge, I don't think you should include racism along with religion, for it is far more an emotive issue and belief than religious faith.

HI Stardesk

Both are beliefs, that have no evidence that backs each belief

They are also both ideologies as well

by HoratioTarr Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:11 pm

Didge wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

It's about respect, and accepting differences in people. Same thing when you are considering someone's race or sexuality. I personally don't believe in the Bible, but I can appreciate that it also has words of wisdom mixed up with the hypocrisy and that some of it, particularly the teachings of Jesus, can give great comfort to those who believe in it.
I'm not religious, as you can see, but that doesn't mean to say I don't believe in some higher energy, or the power of love and light. Equally, I respect someone's right to not believe.

Religions are ideologies as well as beliefs

Racism is an ideology and a belief

Do you have respect for racist beliefs?

Yawn

by Guest Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:39 pm

Didge wrote:
stardesk wrote:Hi Didge, I don't think you should include racism along with religion, for it is far more an emotive issue and belief than religious faith.

HI Stardesk
Both are beliefs, that have no evidence that backs each belief
They are also both ideologies as well
*****
and then this >>>
Religions are ideologies as well as beliefs
Racism is an ideology and a belief
Do you have respect for racist beliefs?

Hmmmm, I'm thinking that you've meshed the two different words into one mish/mash/convoluted definition to suit your own unique thought process Razz

And for a fellow member that finds so much fault and never hesitates to express your contempt for all of us --- this was really a shock, at least to my eyes Shocked

Religion vs Ideology

Religion and Ideology are two terms that are likely to be confused due to the closeness in their meanings and concepts.
Religion consists in the belief in a superhuman controlling power especially in a personal God or gods entitled to worship ( Defined by The Concise Oxford Dictionary). In other words religion is the branch of knowledge that deals with the methodology of worship and the praise of God.

On the other hand ideology deals with the system of ideas at the basis of an economic or political theory. For example the Marxist ideology deals with the system of ideas at the basis of political theory. In other words it may be said that ideology has the basis in either economics or politics. This is the main difference between religion and ideology.

Religion has nothing to do with politics whereas Ideology has a lot to do with politics. This is also an important difference between religion and ideology. Religion has basic texts to follow whereas ideology has basic concepts and principles to follow.
http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-religion-and-vs-ideology/
http://vspages.com/religion-vs-ideology-7028/

SWEET JESUS...you do have a marvelous mind and a way to twist a word to make your method for conversation...hmmm, appear to be superior and yet it's just shim/sham and hog wash at the least!

rac-ism
[rey-siz-uh m] noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

BTW --- you do owe me a written apology for your continued blatant LIE and posting about my being: Bee/Beekeeper/Wolfman What Could God do about Evil? - Page 5 701223944

What Could God do about Evil? - Page 5 701223944

Did you think I'd forget what YOU WROTE?

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