What many Christians get wrong on July 4th

Joy Division wrote:There are many people from different nations who think their country is the be all of it Didge, yes imthinkmtheir is a percentage of Americans who think like this, but a lot of it is pride...amd I'm sure that if other countries had the riches that the US as a country have had, the fame of producing blockbuster movies etc, then they would be very proud too.

I'm proud of both Scotlamd and Britain, while we don't have the size or armour of the US army, we are still a might force to be reckoned with for such a small island.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Joy Division wrote:There are many people from different nations who think their country is the be all of it Didge, yes imthinkmtheir is a percentage of Americans who think like this, but a lot of it is pride...amd I'm sure that if other countries had the riches that the US as a country have had, the fame of producing blockbuster movies etc, then they would be very proud too.

I'm proud of both Scotlamd and Britain, while we don't have the size or armour of the US army, we are still a might force to be reckoned with for such a small island.

I think American exceptionalism goes beyond national pride and becomes psychosis, it's based (for most who believe in it) on the idea that God loves America more than any other country, and comes with similar ideas like all the best ideas are American, thus American systems and customs are by default considered superior to those of any other country.

It's probably why so many of our right-wingers hate soccer, actually! I remember this old Bubba of a coach who said "I think soccer's communist, and they just need to keep it over there"   

So we end up with a dialogue like this all the time:

LEFTY: We need to have single-payer health care and more gun restrictions.

RIGHTY: Seriously?! Then we'll end up being like Canada/the UK/France/Australia!

LEFTY: So? Those countries do health care better than we do and have far fewer gun deaths.

RIGHTY: But ... 'Murica! (head explodes)

It's exactly the same as trying to tell a devoutly religious person that there's no evidence for the existence of God, they just can't force their brains to even process the idea. That's the danger of faith, the faithful can't allow themselves to entertain certain ideas deemed "heretical."

Joy Division wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Joy Division wrote:There are many people from different nations who think their country is the be all of it Didge, yes imthinkmtheir is a percentage of Americans who think like this, but a lot of it is pride...amd I'm sure that if other countries had the riches that the US as a country have had, the fame of producing blockbuster movies etc, then they would be very proud too.

I'm proud of both Scotlamd and Britain, while we don't have the size or armour of the US army, we are still a might force to be reckoned with for such a small island.

I think American exceptionalism goes beyond national pride and becomes psychosis, it's based (for most who believe in it) on the idea that God loves America more than any other country, and comes with similar ideas like all the best ideas are American, thus American systems and customs are by default considered superior to those of any other country.

It's probably why so many of our right-wingers hate soccer, actually! I remember this old Bubba of a coach who said "I think soccer's communist, and they just need to keep it over there"   

So we end up with a dialogue like this all the time:

LEFTY: We need to have single-payer health care and more gun restrictions.

RIGHTY: Seriously?! Then we'll end up being like Canada/the UK/France/Australia!

LEFTY: So? Those countries do health care better than we do and have far fewer gun deaths.

RIGHTY: But ... 'Murica! (head explodes)

It's exactly the same as trying to tell a devoutly religious person that there's no evidence for the existence of God, they just can't force their brains to even process the idea. That's the danger of faith, the faithful can't allow themselves to entertain certain ideas deemed "heretical."

...sounds a bit like brainwashing being instilled from a very early agar then!...

Soccer- communist   

When the Gospel Community Church in Coxsackie, New York, breaks midservice to excuse children for Sunday school, nearly half of the 225-strong congregation patters toward the back of the worship hall: the five youngest children of Pastor Stan Slager's eight, assistant pastor Bartly Heneghan's eleven and the Dufkin family's thirteen, among many others. "The Missionettes," a team of young girls who perform ribbon dances during the praise music, put down their "glory hoops" to join their classmates; the pews empty out. It's the un-ignorable difference between the families at Gospel Community and those in the rest of the town that's led some to wonder if the church isn't a cult that forces its disciples to keep pushing out children.

But after the kids leave, Pastor Stan doesn't exhort his congregation to bear children. His approach is more subtle, reminding them to present their bodies as living sacrifices to the Lord, and preaching to them about Acts 5:20: Go tell "all the words of this life." Or, in Pastor Stan's guiding translation, to lead lives that make outsiders think, "Christianity is real," lives that "demand an explanation."

Lives such as these: Janet Wolfson is a 44-year-old mother of eight in Canton, Georgia. Tracie Moore, a 39-year-old midwife who lives in southern Kentucky, is mother to fourteen. Wendy Dufkin in Coxsackie has her thirteen. And while Jamie Stoltzfus, a 27-year-old Illinois mom, has only four children so far, she plans on bearing enough to populate "two teams." All four mothers are devoted to a way of life New York Times columnist David Brooks has praised as a new spiritual movement taking hold among exurban and Sunbelt families. Brooks called these parents "natalists" and described their progeny as a new wave of "Red-Diaper Babies"--as in "red state." (Read -- conservative, Christian, Republican)

But Wolfson, Moore and thousands of mothers like them call themselves and their belief system "Quiverfull." They borrow their name from Psalm 127: "Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one's youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to shame when they contend with their enemies in the gate." Quiverfull mothers think of their children as no mere movement but as an army they're building for God.

Quiverfull parents try to have upwards of six children. They home-school their families, attend fundamentalist churches and follow biblical guidelines of male headship--"Father knows best"--and female submissiveness. They refuse any attempt to regulate pregnancy. Quiverfull began with the publication of Rick and Jan Hess's 1989 book, A Full Quiver: Family Planning and the Lordship of Christ, which argues that God, as the "Great Physician" and sole "Birth Controller," opens and closes the womb on a case-by-case basis. Women's attempts to control their own bodies--the Lord's temple--are a seizure of divine power.

nicko wrote:In England, if there's a murder especially a child some people can't wait to rush out and buy flowers or/and teddy bears which are placed as near as possible to the incident as soon as possible, a lot of these people don't even know the victim. Seems a bit "over the top" to me. do they do this in America?

BigAndy9 wrote:

nicko wrote:In England, if there's a murder especially a child some people can't wait to rush out and buy flowers or/and teddy bears which are placed as near as possible to the incident as soon as possible, a lot of these people don't even know the victim. Seems a bit "over the top" to me. do they do this in America?

That all started with Princess Di.

I agree, it's sickly.

It's usually chavs - decent, respectable families don't do it.

BigAndy9 wrote:

nicko wrote:In England, if there's a murder especially a child some people can't wait to rush out and buy flowers or/and teddy bears which are placed as near as possible to the incident as soon as possible, a lot of these people don't even know the victim. Seems a bit "over the top" to me. do they do this in America?

That all started with Princess Di.

I agree, it's sickly.

It's usually chavs - decent, respectable families don't do it.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Joy Division wrote:



...sounds a bit like brainwashing being instilled from a very early agar then!...

Soccer- communist   

Oh, absolutely. It's instilled in a lot of people (particularly from conservative families) from a very young age, and it's creepy as hell.

We have people sending their kids to church schools or home-schooling them because they want to pump more religio-patriotism into their kids than public schools will allow.

Check this freaky shit some of our people do to their kids and tell me it doesn't reek of a cult:



(from the documentary 'Jesus Camp')

And check this out:

When the Gospel Community Church in Coxsackie, New York, breaks midservice to excuse children for Sunday school, nearly half of the 225-strong congregation patters toward the back of the worship hall: the five youngest children of Pastor Stan Slager's eight, assistant pastor Bartly Heneghan's eleven and the Dufkin family's thirteen, among many others. "The Missionettes," a team of young girls who perform ribbon dances during the praise music, put down their "glory hoops" to join their classmates; the pews empty out. It's the un-ignorable difference between the families at Gospel Community and those in the rest of the town that's led some to wonder if the church isn't a cult that forces its disciples to keep pushing out children.

But after the kids leave, Pastor Stan doesn't exhort his congregation to bear children. His approach is more subtle, reminding them to present their bodies as living sacrifices to the Lord, and preaching to them about Acts 5:20: Go tell "all the words of this life." Or, in Pastor Stan's guiding translation, to lead lives that make outsiders think, "Christianity is real," lives that "demand an explanation."

Lives such as these: Janet Wolfson is a 44-year-old mother of eight in Canton, Georgia. Tracie Moore, a 39-year-old midwife who lives in southern Kentucky, is mother to fourteen. Wendy Dufkin in Coxsackie has her thirteen. And while Jamie Stoltzfus, a 27-year-old Illinois mom, has only four children so far, she plans on bearing enough to populate "two teams." All four mothers are devoted to a way of life New York Times columnist David Brooks has praised as a new spiritual movement taking hold among exurban and Sunbelt families. Brooks called these parents "natalists" and described their progeny as a new wave of "Red-Diaper Babies"--as in "red state." (Read -- conservative, Christian, Republican)

But Wolfson, Moore and thousands of mothers like them call themselves and their belief system "Quiverfull." They borrow their name from Psalm 127: "Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are sons born in one's youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to shame when they contend with their enemies in the gate." Quiverfull mothers think of their children as no mere movement but as an army they're building for God.

Quiverfull parents try to have upwards of six children. They home-school their families, attend fundamentalist churches and follow biblical guidelines of male headship--"Father knows best"--and female submissiveness. They refuse any attempt to regulate pregnancy. Quiverfull began with the publication of Rick and Jan Hess's 1989 book, A Full Quiver: Family Planning and the Lordship of Christ, which argues that God, as the "Great Physician" and sole "Birth Controller," opens and closes the womb on a case-by-case basis. Women's attempts to control their own bodies--the Lord's temple--are a seizure of divine power.

http://www.thenation.com/article/arrows-war#

BigAndy9 wrote:

nicko wrote:In England, if there's a murder especially a child some people can't wait to rush out and buy flowers or/and teddy bears which are placed as near as possible to the incident as soon as possible, a lot of these people don't even know the victim. Seems a bit "over the top" to me. do they do this in America?

That all started with Princess Di.

I agree, it's sickly.

It's usually chavs - decent, respectable families don't do it.