Fred Phelps, Westboro Baptist Church Founder, Is Dead (Updated)

First topic message reminder :

Fred Phelps, the founder of the highly controversial Westboro Baptist Church, which is known for protesting high-profile funerals with signs that read "God Hates Fags," is said to be dying at a hospice center in Kansas.

The news comes via Nate Phelps, one of Fred's estranged children, who wrote this in a Facebook post Saturday night.

I've learned that my father, Fred Phelps, Sr., pastor of the "God Hates Fags" Westboro Baptist Church, was ex-communicated from the "church" back in August of 2013. He is now on the edge of death at Midland Hospice house in Topeka, Kansas.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. Terribly ironic that his devotion to his god ends this way. Destroyed by the monster he made.

I feel sad for all the hurt he's caused so many. I feel sad for those who will lose the grandfather and father they loved. And I'm bitterly angry that my family is blocking the family members who left from seeing him, and saying their good-byes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/16/fred-phelps-dying-death-westboro-baptist_n_4974584.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

PRAISE ALLAH!

Eilzel wrote:Sassy's post also offers interesting facts. If you cannot explain them away you are wrong about the word Allah, simple as that.

Frankly I think those arguing against are simply demonstrating immature attempts to disassociate themselves from Muslims in even the most irrelevant areas of language; it is juvenile tbh.

Of course non-Muslims will disassociate themselves from the beliefs of Islam.

the muslim god isn't the God of the bible, islam teach that allah has no son the bible God has a son Jesus

VOD(original) wrote:the muslim god isn't the God of the bible, islam teach that allah has no son the bible God has a son Jesus

I can't believe how many times we have been through this...lol

VOD(original) wrote:the muslim god isn't the God of the bible, islam teach that allah has no son the bible God has a son Jesus

The Torah teaches that there is no God but Yahweh, to have a son would mean another deity, making Christianity at odds with Judaism of which Jesus was a Jew himself and only claimed to be the son of man and the messiah, not the son of God.
It was Paul that deified Jesus, thus have Christians got it wrong and you could easily argue that they do.
The reality is the Muslims see their deitity as the same as the Christians and Jewish God, the Christians claim Jesus as the son of God, and the Jews deny both of these claims.


So who is right?

Nobody, because it is an illogical argument, based upon faith

The bible is the inspired word of God and the Koran is the copycatted version of it. The devil cannot create anything on his own, so in order to appear as a god, he has to copy what God has done and pervert it.

VOD(original) wrote:The bible is the inspired word of God and the Koran is the copycatted version of it. The devil cannot create anything on his own, so in order to appear as a god, he has to copy what God has done and pervert it.

Both are based upon claims of faith, nothing more.
If the devil cannot create anything, then this deity, your God would have created evil, thus making this deity evil

can't see your post didge your on ignore

But for more than five hundred years before Muhammad, the vast majority of Jews and Christians in Arabia called God by the name Allah.

VOD(original) wrote:

eddie wrote:

Well that is what I always though too? That Allah was the name of the Muslim God, thereby making "Allah" a name?  :\\:[: 

you are right , Christians God is called Jehovah who has a son Jesus , muslim god allah has no son

Isn't the Jehovah's Witness' God called Jehovah too??

eddie wrote:

VOD(original) wrote:

you are right , Christians God is called Jehovah who has a son Jesus , muslim god allah has no son

Isn't the Jehovah's Witness' God  called Jehovah too??

yes , the JW's are a cult they add and take away scripture . My hubby knows more about them than i do edds

No Christians before would have called their deity Yahweh, which is the Greek translation of YHWH, so all we have to go on is how it is pronounced in Greek, not in ancient Hebrew, because ancient Hebrew hand no written vowels.

Jehovah did not appear until the 13th century

can't see what your writing didge lol

That is your issue not mine

I think.you are missing the point VOD; this isn't about whether your gods are the same or not; that is a separate argument. This is about the FACT that the translation of the Arabic word for god, and the word for god in many other languages- IS Allah.

That is a fact. It is utterly meaningless whether the god of the Bible and Koran is the same or not. The point is 'Allah' is the actual word for God used by millions of people who are non-Muslims.

What part of this is so hard to understand?

How do you explain the fact that Arabic Christians (and not only Arabs) refer to God as Allah?

VOD(original) wrote:

eddie wrote:

Well that is what I always though too? That Allah was the name of the Muslim God, thereby making "Allah" a name?  :\\:[: 

you are right , Christians God is called Jehovah who has a son Jesus , muslim god allah has no son

He has three daughters though

::drnkpst:: 

THE smelly_bum_bandit high school dropout's biggest handicap has always been his nasty habit of perpetually living his miserable little life with his empty head stuck so far up his backside, that he's long ago forgotten what those perpetual flowers smell like...  

 ::d&f::

Elochai

Eilzel wrote:Fgs veya just posted a perfectly good list of languages in which Allah (various spellings but pronounced the same) in which Allah means God.

Arabic is a language, the Arabic word for God is Allah. How hard is this to understand?

For all smellys gassing he hasn't actually forwarded anything to counter veya's post (not propaganda, actual languages from around the world you moron) let alone support his own.

Hi Mr E! Smelly tries to rewrite things to suit his agenda. Allah is the arabic word for god. That is it. So whether it is god or God in arabic it is allah or Allah. FOR GAWD SAKE!

Sassy wrote:But for more than five hundred years before Muhammad, the vast majority of Jews and Christians in Arabia called God by the name Allah.

In Aramaic they called God Allah and a god allah. Indeed!

eddie wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

Lord is a title that refers to the Christian god

Allah is the actual name of the muslim god

Like Thor or Neptune are names of gods not titles or foreign language spellings of "god"

The confusion or rather deception comes into play when Muslims claim that Allah is the same god as that of the Jews and Christians so they claim that Allah means "god"

The argument that Allah means god is as ridiculous as saying that "Peugeot" means "car"

Well that is what I always though too? That Allah was the name of the Muslim God, thereby making "Allah" a name?  :\\:[: 

most certainly correct

ALLAH was a god worshiped by pagan arabs long before Muhammad ever came on the scene

allah was believed by these pagans to be the supreme deity of their khaba

the khaba is similar to what westerners would refer to as a pantheon of gods which is common to paganism and polytheism.

Muhammads father was a pagan and his name was abdullah which means "slave of allah"

Eilzel wrote:I think.you are missing the point VOD; this isn't about whether your gods are the same or not; that is a separate argument. This is about the FACT that the translation of the Arabic word for god, and the word for god in many other languages- IS Allah.

That is a fact. It is utterly meaningless whether the god of the Bible and Koran is the same or not. The point is 'Allah' is the actual word for God used by millions of people who are non-Muslims.

What part of this is so hard to understand?

How do you explain the fact that Arabic Christians (and not only Arabs) refer to God as Allah?

how do you explain the fact that English speaking Muslims refer to god as Allah when the English word for god is god not Allah??

smelly_bandit wrote:

Eilzel wrote:I think.you are missing the point VOD; this isn't about whether your gods are the same or not; that is a separate argument. This is about the FACT that the translation of the Arabic word for god, and the word for god in many other languages- IS Allah.

That is a fact. It is utterly meaningless whether the god of the Bible and Koran is the same or not. The point is 'Allah' is the actual word for God used by millions of people who are non-Muslims.

What part of this is so hard to understand?

How do you explain the fact that Arabic Christians (and not only Arabs) refer to God as Allah?

how do you explain the fact that English speaking Muslims refer to god as Allah when the English word for god is god not Allah??

I have heard Muslims refer to both God and Allah interchangeably; the reason Muslims refer to Allah more often than not however is because first of all in their own language (or that of their parents) Allah is God and God is Allah; and also the original language of the Koran is Arabic.

You have STILL not replied as to why Arab Christians would call God Alllah.

You have STILL not replied as to why Allah is the word for God is other languages.

I understand if you cannot reply of course.

And he still hasn't replied to the fact that Arabic Jews and Christians called God, Allah, before there ever was a Islamic religion.

But for more than five hundred years before Muhammad, the vast majority of Jews and Christians in Arabia called God by the name Allah.

I just think this right-wing obsession over the origin of the name "Allah" is so fucking stupid. Who cares; what difference does it make? Is it all just to say that Muslims don't worship the same god as Christians? We know that objectively Islam is a different religion from Christianity, yet claims to be the fulfillment of the will of the same god that Christians and Jews worship.

So there's disagreement -- what a breakthrough, huh; two religions don't agree!

But for some reason, RWers can't leave it at that; they have to claim that Allah is not also a word used for "god" by people of different faiths. Are Spanish Catholics not really Catholic because they call God "el Dios" while in Vatican City, God is called "Dio"? Are Finnish Christians not Christians because they spell Jesus "Jeesus"?

Ben_Reilly wrote:I just think this right-wing obsession over the origin of the name "Allah" is so fucking stupid. Who cares; what difference does it make? Is it all just to say that Muslims don't worship the same god as Christians? We know that objectively Islam is a different religion from Christianity, yet claims to be the fulfillment of the will of the same god that Christians and Jews worship.

So there's disagreement -- what a breakthrough, huh; two religions don't agree!

But for some reason, RWers can't leave it at that; they have to claim that Allah is not also a word used for "god" by people of different faiths. Are Spanish Catholics not really Catholic because they call God "el Dios" while in Vatican City, God is called "Dio"? Are Finnish Christians not Christians because they spell Jesus "Jeesus"?

Oh get over yourself with your anti "right-wing" nonsense. I don't call God "Allah", but that's nothing to do with politics.

No, it's because you are English, as I presume you are, and you read the bible that calls God, God. But if you read a book that called God, Allah, you would call him Allah. Not that I believe there is such a thing anyway.

Sassy wrote:And he still hasn't replied to the fact that Arabic Jews and Christians called God, Allah, before there ever was a Islamic religion.

But for more than five hundred years before Muhammad, the vast majority of Jews and Christians in Arabia called God by the name Allah.

dont you have some evidence to show us you lying whorebag??

Sassy wrote:No, it's because you are English, as I presume you are, and you read the bible that calls God, God.   But if you read a book that called God, Allah, you would call him Allah.    Not that I believe there is such a thing anyway.

Well I would be unlikely to read a book that calls him "Allah". Most Muslims refer to him as Allah, and as I don't believe what they believe, I don't want to be mistaken for a Muslim. Not that I have anything against Muslims, but they reject Jesus as the Son of God, so I'm not one.

smelly_bandit wrote:

Sassy wrote:And he still hasn't replied to the fact that Arabic Jews and Christians called God, Allah, before there ever was a Islamic religion.

But for more than five hundred years before Muhammad, the vast majority of Jews and Christians in Arabia called God by the name Allah.

dont you have some evidence to show us you lying whorebag??

Calm down honey, you will give yourself a heart attack.   

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:No, it's because you are English, as I presume you are, and you read the bible that calls God, God.   But if you read a book that called God, Allah, you would call him Allah.    Not that I believe there is such a thing anyway.

Well I would be unlikely to read a book that calls him "Allah". Most Muslims refer to him as Allah, and as I don't believe what they believe, I don't want to be mistaken for a Muslim. Not that I have anything against Muslims, but they reject Jesus as the Son of God, so I'm not one.

FGS The Arabic bible calls him Allah, Arabic Christians call him Allah! DOH!

taken from the qur'an

003.062
YUSUFALI: This is the true account: There is no god except Allah; and Allah-He is indeed the Exalted in Power, the Wise.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well I would be unlikely to read a book that calls him "Allah". Most Muslims refer to him as Allah, and as I don't believe what they believe, I don't want to be mistaken for a Muslim. Not that I have anything against Muslims, but they reject Jesus as the Son of God, so I'm not one.

FGS The Arabic bible calls him Allah, Arabic Christians call him Allah!  DOH!

Ilah not ALLAH

Ben_Reilly wrote:I just think this right-wing obsession over the origin of the name "Allah" is so fucking stupid. Who cares; what difference does it make? Is it all just to say that Muslims don't worship the same god as Christians? We know that objectively Islam is a different religion from Christianity, yet claims to be the fulfillment of the will of the same god that Christians and Jews worship.

So there's disagreement -- what a breakthrough, huh; two religions don't agree!

But for some reason, RWers can't leave it at that; they have to claim that Allah is not also a word used for "god" by people of different faiths. Are Spanish Catholics not really Catholic because they call God "el Dios" while in Vatican City, God is called "Dio"? Are Finnish Christians not Christians because they spell Jesus "Jeesus"?

yeah i agree lets just ignore facts and reality and make shit up instead that always works out well for everyone

its what you lefties do all the time anyway

HEY BEN have you got that evidence sassy emailed you yet??

and when are you going to post it up??

“Allah” is the Arabic word for “God” and has been so long before the existence of Islam. The names “Allah” and “God” are generally interchangeable within the Muslim religion and in Middle Eastern cultures. Some English translations of the Qu’ran (Koran) use the name “God,” others use “Allah.” This sometimes comes as a surprise to Christians who were raised in Western cultures. Among former Muslims, many converts to Christianity commonly refer to God as “Allah.” (This is despite the fact that they recognize clear differences in the character of God as described by the Bible compared to Islamic writings. For example, although both Christians, Muslims and Jews firmly believe there is only one God, Christians have the additional doctrine of the Trinity.)

Of course, the word “God” does not actually appear in the original Hebrew or Greek manuscripts of the Bible, accepted as Holy by both Christians and Muslims. “God” is an old English word which developed from an Indo-European word, meaning “that which is invoked,” which is also the ancestor of the German word Gott (meaning: God).
Copyrighted © image. Book: Building Bridges
Book: Building Bridges

The Navigators, a well-known evangelical Christian organization, published the following:

“…It’s interesting to observe that, in rejecting the Athenian’s erroneous concept of God, Paul did not reject the word they used for God, Theos, which was the common Greek word for God.

Some Christians unthinkingly say ‘Allah is not God.’ This is the ultimate blasphemy to Muslims, and furthermore, it is difficult to understand. Allah is the primary Arabic word for God. It means ‘The God.’ There are some minor exceptions. For example, the Bible in some Muslim lands uses a word for God other than Allah (Farsi and Urdu are examples). But for more than five hundred years before Muhammad, the vast majority of Jews and Christians in Arabia called God by the name Allah. How, then, can we say that Allah is an invalid name for God? If it is, to whom have these Jews and Christians been praying?

And what about the 10 to 12 million Arab Christians today? They have been calling God ‘Allah’ in their Bibles, hymns, poems, writings, and worship for over nineteen centuries. What an insult to them when we tell them not to use this word ‘Allah’! Instead of bridging the distance between Muslims and Christians, we widen the gulf of separation between them and us when we promote such a doctrine. Those who still insist that it is blasphemy to refer to God as Allah should also consider that Muhammad’s father was named Abd Allah, ‘God’s servant,’ many years before his son was born or Islam was founded!”

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/allah.html

smelly_bandit wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:I just think this right-wing obsession over the origin of the name "Allah" is so fucking stupid. Who cares; what difference does it make? Is it all just to say that Muslims don't worship the same god as Christians? We know that objectively Islam is a different religion from Christianity, yet claims to be the fulfillment of the will of the same god that Christians and Jews worship.

So there's disagreement -- what a breakthrough, huh; two religions don't agree!

But for some reason, RWers can't leave it at that; they have to claim that Allah is not also a word used for "god" by people of different faiths. Are Spanish Catholics not really Catholic because they call God "el Dios" while in Vatican City, God is called "Dio"? Are Finnish Christians not Christians because they spell Jesus "Jeesus"?

yeah i agree lets just ignore facts and reality and make shit up instead that always works out well for everyone

its what you lefties do all the time anyway

HEY BEN have you got that evidence sassy emailed you yet??

and when are you going to post it up??

BEN: Obviously I would not email it to Smelly, because then he would know my email address, but you have my permission to post the screen shot I emailed you if you you want to.

Sassy wrote:“Allah” is the Arabic word for “God” and has been so long before the existence of Islam. The names “Allah” and “God” are generally interchangeable within the Muslim religion and in Middle Eastern cultures. Some English translations of the Qu’ran (Koran) use the name “God,” others use “Allah.” This sometimes comes as a surprise to Christians who were raised in Western cultures. Among former Muslims, many converts to Christianity commonly refer to God as “Allah.” (This is despite the fact that they recognize clear differences in the character of God as described by the Bible compared to Islamic writings. For example, although both Christians, Muslims and Jews firmly believe there is only one God, Christians have the additional doctrine of the Trinity.)

Of course, the word “God” does not actually appear in the original Hebrew or Greek manuscripts of the Bible, accepted as Holy by both Christians and Muslims. “God” is an old English word which developed from an Indo-European word, meaning “that which is invoked,” which is also the ancestor of the German word Gott (meaning: God).
Copyrighted image. Book: Building Bridges
Book: Building Bridges

The Navigators, a well-known evangelical Christian organization, published the following:

“…It’s interesting to observe that, in rejecting the Athenian’s erroneous concept of God, Paul did not reject the word they used for God, Theos, which was the common Greek word for God.

Some Christians unthinkingly say ‘Allah is not God.’ This is the ultimate blasphemy to Muslims, and furthermore, it is difficult to understand. Allah is the primary Arabic word for God. It means ‘The God.’ There are some minor exceptions. For example, the Bible in some Muslim lands uses a word for God other than Allah (Farsi and Urdu are examples). But for more than five hundred years before Muhammad, the vast majority of Jews and Christians in Arabia called God by the name Allah. How, then, can we say that Allah is an invalid name for God? If it is, to whom have these Jews and Christians been praying?

And what about the 10 to 12 million Arab Christians today? They have been calling God ‘Allah’ in their Bibles, hymns, poems, writings, and worship for over nineteen centuries. What an insult to them when we tell them not to use this word ‘Allah’! Instead of bridging the distance between Muslims and Christians, we widen the gulf of separation between them and us when we promote such a doctrine. Those who still insist that it is blasphemy to refer to God as Allah should also consider that Muhammad’s father was named Abd Allah, ‘God’s servant,’ many years before his son was born or Islam was founded!”

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/allah.html

This will be ignored sass as facts might make little stinks head explode   

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well I would be unlikely to read a book that calls him "Allah". Most Muslims refer to him as Allah, and as I don't believe what they believe, I don't want to be mistaken for a Muslim. Not that I have anything against Muslims, but they reject Jesus as the Son of God, so I'm not one.

FGS The Arabic bible calls him Allah, Arabic Christians call him Allah!  DOH!

Well I'm not an Arab!

The point is that Ben was banging on about this being a "right wing" thing, and it isn't! It's nothing do with being right wing or left wing. You're insisting that Christians call God "Allah", so why is not accusing you of being obsessed?

These labels on this forum are getting stupid IMO.

How did this thread get onto allah ,
Is Fred gone yet ?
Hope he repented or repents before he passes on

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well I would be unlikely to read a book that calls him "Allah". Most Muslims refer to him as Allah, and as I don't believe what they believe, I don't want to be mistaken for a Muslim. Not that I have anything against Muslims, but they reject Jesus as the Son of God, so I'm not one.

FGS The Arabic bible calls him Allah, Arabic Christians call him Allah!  DOH!

Well I'm not an Arab!

The point is that Ben was banging on about this being a "right wing" thing, and it isn't! It's nothing do with being right wing or left wing. You're insisting that Christians call God "Allah", so why is not accusing you of being obsessed?

These labels on this forum are getting stupid IMO.

Christians in Arabic-speaking areas really do call God "Allah."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherhowse/7110855/The-Christians-who-call-God-Allah.html

Thanks. As I said, thats the mildest, I wouldn't sully anyone eyes with the rest, and most people who were there remember what he said anyway, the shock probably drummed it in to their memory.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well I'm not an Arab!

The point is that Ben was banging on about this being a "right wing" thing, and it isn't! It's nothing do with being right wing or left wing. You're insisting that Christians call God "Allah", so why is not accusing you of being obsessed?

These labels on this forum are getting stupid IMO.

Christians in Arabic-speaking areas really do call God "Allah."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherhowse/7110855/The-Christians-who-call-God-Allah.html

Well now you're obsessing - is it because you're a "leftie"?   

If a lot of Christians don't want to call God "Allah", that's their business. I don't want to, and I don't need a lecture from people who are athiests.

Allah

(Arabic; “God”)
Standard Arabic word for God, used by Arab Christians as well as by Muslims. According to the Qur'an, Allah is the creator and judge of humankind, omnipotent, compassionate, and merciful. The Muslim profession of faith affirms that there is no deity but God and emphasizes that he is inherently one: “nothing is like unto him.” Everything that happens occurs by his commandment; submission to God is the basis of Islam. The Qur'an and the Hadith contain the 99 “most beautiful names” of God, including the One and Only, the Living One, the Real Truth, the Hearer, the Seer, the Benefactor, and the Constant Forgiver.

http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Allah

in maltese the word God is Alla ,(catholics/christians) in arabic it is allah , but allah the god of islam is not the God of the bible , the reason being is that islam reject Jesus as the son of God so they are not the same god .

What is that screengrab supposed to prove?

Raggamuffin wrote:What is that screengrab supposed to prove?

Perhaps you should read it?

In regards to "being lectured by an atheist," I really will say whatever I please here.

In regards to whether "Allah" is the name of God for Christian Arabs, I have only ever seen right-wingers get their panties in a wad over that fact.

VOD(original) wrote:in maltese the word God is Alla ,(catholics/christians) in arabic it is allah , but allah the god of islam is not the God of the bible , the reason being is that islam reject Jesus as the son of God so they are not the same god .

I would agree with that, to any outside observer they are obviously distinct religions -- however, it is a tenet of the Islamic faith that their God is not only the real one, but also the same one worshiped by Christians and Jews.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:What is that screengrab supposed to prove?

Perhaps you should read it?

In regards to "being lectured by an atheist," I really will say whatever I please here.

In regards to whether "Allah" is the name of God for Christian Arabs, I have only ever seen right-wingers get their panties in a wad over that fact.

Some of it is missing, so how can I read it all?

I'll say what I please too, and I think that you trying to brand this issue as a "right wing" thing is stupid.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

VOD(original) wrote:in maltese the word God is Alla ,(catholics/christians) in arabic it is allah , but allah the god of islam is not the God of the bible , the reason being is that islam reject Jesus as the son of God so they are not the same god .

I would agree with that, to any outside observer they are obviously distinct religions -- however, it is a tenet of the Islamic faith that their God is not only the real one, but also the same one worshiped by Christians and Jews.

It makes no difference to me to be honest I know what i believe the muslims know what they believe nothing will change that will it , is it worth arguing over a word .

god Allah god Alla god Jehovah words its what they mean to the individual .