Morocco reverses horrible rape law

The parliament of Morocco has unanimously amended an article of the penal code that allowed rapists of underage girls to avoid prosecution by marrying their victims.

The move follows intensive lobbying by activists for better protection of young rape victims. The amendment has been welcomed by rights groups.

Article 475 of the penal code generated unprecedented public criticism.

It was first proposed by Morocco's Islamist-led government a year ago.

But the issue came to public prominence in 2012 when 16-year-old Amina Filali killed herself after being forced to marry her rapist.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-25855025

Thank goodness for that. The rape-to-marry culture prevalent in some societies is truly repugnant.

lovedust wrote:
Thank goodness for that. The rape-to-marry culture prevalent in some societies is truly repugnant.

Yes, apparently the "marry-your-rapist" belief was pretty common among ancient nomads:

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

- Deuteronomy 22:28-29

I did not know this practice may have gained "legitimacy" from the Bible. Somehow that makes it even worse.

What you ALL forget, in using bible quotes is that books such as the bible the quran etc are a (albeit imperfect) sociial record of the times they were written in.
This practice was prevalent far earlier than biblical times, and for good reason
vis

note first the "discovered"
required because natural justice requires some sort of proof, and at the time there was no way of proving rape as opposed to consent unless caught in the act

NOW...
thats said what do you do with a rapist?

well in a primitive manpower short tribal economy you DONT
a)kill any man you can avoid
b) you dont render any man incapable of breeding (for obvious reasons)
c) You dont impose sanctions that may make that man and his family turn against you (as the tribal leader)

HOWEVER
given the conventions of the time
a)you have to provide for the girl who, no longer a virgin (through no fault of her own) is going to be difficult to marry
b)you have to provide for the girl and the potential child
c) you dont have a "social services/welfare system


SO
you MAKE the bloke marry her and provide for her and the child...for life....

yes there are other flaws, such as a society that deems non virgins "worth less" but thats NOT the point here.

it leads to the argument about past societies

WE CANNOT JUDGE THEM...by OUR standards, they were what there were AT THAT TIME.
we can look back and say that they acted in a way that we today find wrong, we cannot look back and say they were evil or whatever

the romans were rabid paedophiles....they were also the most advanced in almost ALL other social aspects, even their form of slavery..IF carried out to their rules, was actually quite equitable in many ways and certainly far better than any form since.
were they evil....nope, do we today find their ways wrong by todays standards...yes...

the fact that SOME theocracies STILL cling to these primitive rules of course IS deplorable, and the answer as to why is obvious, It is to maintain the POWER over women ...

I understand the argument that someone needed to take care of the rape victim, but that's still a horrible, oppressive, sexist solution that many ancient societies, for example the Celts, were able to avoid.

Ben_Reilly wrote:I understand the argument that someone needed to take care of the rape victim, but that's still a horrible, oppressive, sexist solution that many ancient societies, for example the Celts, were able to avoid.

Yes but again you are judging by NOW....and the celts were FAR removed in place from these others and developed a different solution.
however marriage by rape WAS inculcated in celtic law at least by the time of the normans.......

you see this is the problem with judging THEN on the basis of NOW

what you NEED to do is have an ancient celts opinion on the contemporary society in the middle east for instance...ok so you aint going to get it...but you see what I mean...

Discarding a woman from society for no better reason than her having fallen victim to personal violence seems inhumane for any society, ancient or no.

I agree. We may not understand everything about their society, but from their actions we can deduce their values based on rules such as this.

My goodness I did not realise some countries were so backwards, it's hard to imagine that in 2014 it would be legal to do such a thing, do other countries still allow rape to marry??

@father
there are , I looked and couldn't find an exact number... but it is quite problem in places like India and Bangladesh in the more rural areas according to Google

veya_victaous wrote:@father
there are , I looked and couldn't find an exact number... but it is quite problem in places like India and Bangladesh in the more rural areas according to Google

Now that is scary, you have to wonder if any international pressure is being exerted to stop such sick abuse of children.

In India I know there is not only international pressure but pressure from the more 'developed' provinces.

veya_victaous wrote:In India I know there is not only international pressure but pressure from the more 'developed' provinces.

Well thats good to know but you would have thought it would be more prominent in International version of the NSPCC adds or something.

veya_victaous wrote:@father
there are , I looked and couldn't find an exact number... but it is quite problem in places like India and Bangladesh in the more rural areas according to Google

I think we had a similar thread before about India Veya, where there is an now far more men now than women. Of course this is no excuse ever for rape, but with such an over balance is this a contributing factor


https://newsfix.niceboard.com/t1197-why-india-is-sitting-on-a-social-time-bomb-of-violence-against-women

PhilDidge wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:@father
there are , I looked and couldn't find an exact number... but it is quite problem in places like India and Bangladesh in the more rural areas according to Google

I think we had a similar thread before about India Veya, where there is an now far more men now than women. Of  course this is no excuse ever for rape, but with such an over balance is this a contributing factor


https://newsfix.niceboard.com/t1197-why-india-is-sitting-on-a-social-time-bomb-of-violence-against-women

I cannot believe I am reading this,this must be places all over the world were men greatly outnumber women and rape of children is not an issue, I cannot believe anyone would attempt to condone child rape in such a way, it is clearly a cultural or religious problem.

@heavenly father
that is another side of it too, the fact she was only 16. (I missed that)

I believe most of the case in India involve slightly older girls

veya_victaous wrote:@heavenly father
that is another side of it too, the fact she was only 16. (I missed that)

I believe most of the case in India involve slightly older girls

it is all very sick.

It's quite obvious it's not the fault of the girls, so something in this culture must have given them permission to act so vile towards women, now even if the law changes if the conditions outside of the law do not change these girls still have no chance, it is all very sad, perhaps they go around in these colourless, shapeless bags to protect themselves from these disgusting ,vile men.

heavenly father wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:@heavenly father
that is another side of it too, the fact she was only 16. (I missed that)

I believe most of the case in India involve slightly older girls

it is all very sick.

It's quite obvious it's not the fault of the girls, so something in this culture must have given them permission to act so vile towards women, now even if the law changes if the conditions outside of the law do not change these girls still have no chance, it is all very sad, perhaps they go around in these colourless, shapeless bags to protect themselves from these disgusting ,vile men.

Not necessarily -- pedophilia abounds in Western nations as well; would you blame that on Western culture or religion?

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

it is all very sick.

It's quite obvious it's not the fault of the girls, so something in this culture must have given them permission to act so vile towards women, now even if the law changes if the conditions outside of the law do not change these girls still have no chance, it is all very sad, perhaps they go around in these colourless, shapeless bags to protect themselves from these disgusting ,vile men.

Not necessarily -- pedophilia abounds in Western nations as well; would you blame that on Western culture or religion?

No because western culture does not make it legal or acceptable, also the lines are now blurred as islam spreads across the globe taking its own rules with it.

heavenly father wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenly father wrote:

it is all very sick.

It's quite obvious it's not the fault of the girls, so something in this culture must have given them permission to act so vile towards women, now even if the law changes if the conditions outside of the law do not change these girls still have no chance, it is all very sad, perhaps they go around in these colourless, shapeless bags to protect themselves from these disgusting ,vile men.

Not necessarily -- pedophilia abounds in Western nations as well; would you blame that on Western culture or religion?

No because western culture does not make it legal or acceptable, also the lines are now blurred as islam spreads across the globe taking its own rules with it.

And where is your evidence that Islam does accept pedophilia?

Are you one of those people who thought this was a photo of a mass child wedding in Palestine? :D

the koran and the example of muhammed shows to marry young girls and the rules and regulations about thighing young children.

Dont talk rubbish...

any hows, is the bible the inerrant word of god? and if so do you approve of beating children to death as it advocates????

The Celts had a fairly relaxed view of sex in consentual terms, even though the head of the household had in principle the power of life and death over his household, women were held in high regard (really) if a man raped a woman, he would be punished and made to pay compensation, the woman would not be required to marry her assailant, his family would though be required to support the child - financially speaking, the same with an affair no pressure was brought for marriage due to a child being brought into the world the main concern was to support the child even way past the Norman conquest children born out of wedlock and recognised by the father could inherit just like the children of his marriage and women could initiate divorce a far cry from Saxon and Norman custom.

Vintage wrote:The Celts had a fairly relaxed view of sex in consentual terms, even though the head of the household had in principle the power of life and death over his household, women were held in high regard (really) if a man raped a woman, he would be punished and made to pay compensation, the woman would not be required to marry her assailant, his family would though be required to support the child - financially speaking, the same with an affair no pressure was brought for marriage due to a child being brought into the world the main concern was to support the child even way past the Norman conquest children born out of wedlock and recognised  by the father could inherit just like the children of his marriage and women could initiate divorce a far cry from Saxon and Norman custom.

I agree on your points about the Celts, way ahead of their time, but and here is but this was only for those people, for example those laws went out of the window when they sacked Rome in 390 BC and what happened at St Albans butchering all the Roman civilians and many more examples. Still yearsa head of its time

grumpy old git wrote:Dont talk rubbish...

any hows, is the bible the inerrant word of god? and if so do you approve of beating children to death as it advocates????

I see he has followed us here!!!!!

Same old same old

grumpy old git wrote:Dont talk rubbish...

any hows, is the bible the inerrant word of god? and if so do you approve of beating children to death as it advocates????

are you saying muhammed did not marry a young girl, are you saying thighing does not have rules...??

King Richard II of England marries a six-year-old girl:



This sort of thing was much more common in the past; medieval European history is riddled with stories of nobles who married and had children by girls ranging from 13-16.

So have we got any examples of this happening in western europe now?

As for thighing there is a verse but most people seem to consider it false, so they would know better than I would. That said it is apparently common practise. Ayatollah Khomenie's green book, I was quite shocked reading the book (English Translation of course how much lost in the translation could there be), goes into great detail about thighing and sodomising young girls even babies, and also has instructions that if the child is damaged, the man must be responsible for her for the rest of her (miserable, presumably) life, she won't be counted as one of his four possible wives though and the man will be unable to marry her sister. I have also read that if the damage is repairable as long as the man pays for the medical treatment he's off the hook of responsibility. The question is whether anyone takes notice of this book or how many take notice of it. There's an Arabic woman or two who regularly appear on tv in the middle east who try to expose this kind of thing and press for more equal rights for women there, can't remember their names but if what is said isn't true why would they expose themselves in such a way in that society .

There is no verse in the Quran Vintage and I do not see evidence either that thighing is a common practice, but am interested to where you obtain this view point?

Also his book I have no idea where he gets this notion, even though he was a shia.

Islam does not allow any sexual contact between a man and woman unless they are legally married and in the age of adulthood. Also within the Quran it states:

Do not approach unlawful sexual intercourse. Verily, it is immoral and an evil way.

Surah Al-Isra 17:32

Thus clearly some are trying to interpret these rules different and of course you also have the issue over when a female is adult and mature in some Muslim countries, though the legal age of marriage is 18 in some. So the views differ greatly, one of the problems with religion. Christianity is the same, though there is actually also no legal age to marry and at present the legal age of consent is 14 in the Vatican. One of the problems within all the main 3 faiths is how women are treated second to men and was very much a problem in the west and still is with domestic violence though things are at least better in the west. Again the way forward for Muslim countries is for them to gain control over some of the religious authorities, who are fearful of losing their power, as was the same in the west with the clergy. There is no denying problems and books like that only make the problem far worse, but it does not mean his views a right. One of the biggest problems in Islam is the authenticity of hadiths, much of what we do know on them is claims from traditions of their collation, where people who lived years after decide on what they think were authentic, which leaves many open to if they really are, without any originals of the works

The famed "green book" was (is) a hoax....

how typical that you would believe a hoax.....

grumpy old git wrote:The famed "green book" was (is) a hoax....

how typical that you would believe a hoax.....

Is your point to me of Vintage?

It may also help you post this to vintage as she is making the point on the book of which there is no denying there is a book in circulation.

i think you will find examples and quotes all over the internet about thighing and i do not think you can dismiss the book as a hoax..

heavenly father wrote:i think you will find examples and quotes all over the internet about thighing and i do not think you can dismiss the book as a hoax..

There are also claims to seeing Elvis working in a chip shop in the internet, what does that prove?


Here for just for you:


There is no verse in the Quran Vintage and I do not see evidence either that thighing is a common practice, but am interested to where you obtain this view point?

Also his book I have no idea where he gets this notion, even though he was a shia.

Islam does not allow any sexual contact between a man and woman unless they are legally married and in the age of adulthood. Also within the Quran it states:

Do not approach unlawful sexual intercourse. Verily, it is immoral and an evil way.

Surah Al-Isra 17:32

Thus clearly some are trying to interpret these rules different and of course you also have the issue over when a female is adult and mature in some Muslim countries, though the legal age of marriage is 18 in some. So the views differ greatly, one of the problems with religion. Christianity is the same, though there is actually also no legal age to marry and at present the legal age of consent is 14 in the Vatican. One of the problems within all the main 3 faiths is how women are treated second to men and was very much a problem in the west and still is with domestic violence though things are at least better in the west. Again the way forward for Muslim countries is for them to gain control over some of the religious authorities, who are fearful of losing their power, as was the same in the west with the clergy. There is no denying problems and books like that only make the problem far worse, but it does not mean his views a right. One of the biggest problems in Islam is the authenticity of hadiths, much of what we do know on them is claims from traditions of their collation, where people who lived years after decide on what they think were authentic, which leaves many open to if they really are, without any originals of the works

Yes we know people have view points HF, what is been shown to you is how it would conflict with the Quran.

lol...if it conflicts with the koran why did the grand ayatollah describe it and its rules, was he speaking against the Koran..lol

there is a longer video around 5 minutes which better explains the womans position and why it is so disgusting and there are of course many more like it.

Many things conflict and as stated some say the book is a hoax, so there is much open for interpretation here. Also within religions there are many sects

I have seen you post all this bollocks before HF an your objective is a poor one considering you are meant to be a christian

PhilDidge wrote:Many things conflict and as stated some say the book is a hoax, so there is much open for interpretation here. Also within religions there are many sects

I have seen you post all this bollocks before HF an your objective is a poor one considering you are meant to be a christian

Why is this bollocks when the woman is an activists in women's rights in the region, she was brought up there and in the religion and now you are trying to say you know more about it all than her presumably? Maybe all these women making a stance are all liars and bigots or have some axe to grind like the interviewer asking her if she likes or doesn't like men?
Because people have twisted religion out of what it originally said doesn't make it any the less dangerous or less valid in a whole lot of people's minds.

Vintage wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:Many things conflict and as stated some say the book is a hoax, so there is much open for interpretation here. Also within religions there are many sects

I have seen you post all this bollocks before HF an your objective is a poor one considering you are meant to be a christian

Why is this bollocks when the woman is an activists in women's rights in the region, she was brought up there and in the religion and now you are trying to say you know more about it all than her presumably? Maybe all these women making a stance are all liars and bigots or have some axe to grind like the interviewer asking her if she likes or doesn't like men?
Because people have twisted religion out of what it originally said doesn't make it any the less dangerous or less valid in a whole lot of people's minds.

Dear me, many people know this poster, you have yet to experience and his motives, hence my point on bollocks he tries to promote, so you are barking up the wrong tree

grumpy old git wrote:The famed "green book" was (is) a hoax....

how typical that you would believe a hoax.....

That's Your opinion Grumpy!

Im a bit surprised though as i have never ridiculed your paganism or any other failth!