Police In Mumbai Arrest Single Men And Women For Taking Selfies Together

In the UK, we tend not to bat an eyelid if we see a person taking a selfie - but that's certainly not the case in other parts of the world.


Police in India have said that it's inappropriate for men and women to take selfies together if they're not married. Why? Because of how close they get to each other in order to fit in the photograph.


According to The Debrief, authorities have arrested several groups of people due to their "morally questionable" selfie behaviour.


This includes a group of seven friends in their early twenties who were trying to take a group picture on the Dahisar Bridge. The men in the group were taken to the police station and fined for "touching" their friends.

[ltr]http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/29/women-banned-selfies-india_n_5898898.html?utm_hp_ref=uk[/ltr]


So let me get this straight, people are arrested for taking a photo on the grounds they maybe touching but countless cases of men committing rape  we keep hearing about in India gets ignored by the Police.

Actually these were Anti Eve Teasing Squads set up by the Police to ensure women were not molested during carnival season, as they were last year.

The Mumbai chief of police has admitted the squad needs to be re-briefed and not act like a morality force.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Actually these were Anti Eve Teasing Squads set up by the Police to ensure women were not molested during carnival season, as they were last year.

The Mumbai chief of police has admitted the squad needs to be re-briefed and not act like a morality force.

And that makes what difference when people are getting arrested for talking pictures with unmarried women?
You miss the point there has been countless cases of rape where there has been complete in action by the Police.
Protecting women gets my full support not a view that people not married cannot walk together hand in hand in public.

@didge
so you expect perfection straight away?

they are trying to change the rape culture, it is not as easy as it sounds...
it seems that the actual on the beat officers have just been over zealous in enforcing a rule that was supposed to protect women from potential rapists. they don't deny they need to refine the law so they don't become morality police

The Mumbai chief of police has admitted the squad needs to be re-briefed and not act like a morality force

Zealous on what grounds?
Couples taking photos together?
Never stated I want perfection straight away, you keep coming out with absurd statements which are never made, where there is a real problem of a caste system in India, which places men of far more importance than women, which education is the key to resolving.

The fact of the matter is rape is not taken seriously as seen in many high profile cases and yet here we see couples being arrested for not being married.

Anyway as stated yesterday, I have no wish to debate you anymore because when someone starts calling me racist (proving they do not understand racism) you know that poster has lost any rationality or a grip on reality, so this will be my last post to you.

All the best, have nothing against you, but would rather debate people who want to debate.

You mean because I proved that you do hold racist opinions. you undoubtedly do hold racist opinions, you think YOUR history and version of the world is superior to others. To the extent you will tell people what ethnicity they are despite their own Self Identity.

And here saying they are bad for TRYING to implement laws to protect women...
yes it is over zealous because the law says to stop men getting that close to women in public space, and the method practical enforcement has yet to be defined officially.

India’s Police Crack Down on Women Who Dare Take Selfies in Public:

In India, police are rounding up anyone who dares to take a selfie in public.

They say it’s about safety, not humiliation — but that’s not how their targets feel.

“Sexual harassment” squads, referred to as “anti-eve-teasing” squads in a press release from the Mumbai police, rove around India, making sure girls and women aren’t being mistreated by others. As the nine-day-long Navratri festival approaches and people’s moods turn celebratory, police are cracking down harder than ever on PDA, which apparently includes selfie-taking with anyone other than a spouse.

Group selfies are verboten, too: according to the Mumbai Mirror, seven young adults got in trouble for taking a pic on a Mumbai bridge. Two young men were promptly carted off to the police station, where they were fined for having an arm around their female friend; that friend, who’s 21, was lectured by cops about letting men touch her.

The Commissioner of Police, Rakesh Maria, claims that none of this is sanctioned — that the police are supposed to refrain from “any kind of moral policing” — but in the same breath he emphasized that the squads exist to keep women and girls safe.

It’s true that India’s police have been laying down the law on PDA for a while. But now that Indian citizens are getting slammed for selfies, people in other parts of the world are noticing a deeply flawed police strategy that targets women and perpetuates a victim-blaming culture.

It’s definitely not limited to selfies: there are countless incidents of women getting in trouble just for being out in public with men. In July 2014, a theater professional and her friend were held for eight hours after police found them riding together on the same bike. In July 2013, a couple was arrested for “suspected immorality” while they spent time together on a beach, solely because they didn’t appear to be married.

So why does state-sanctioned police abuse — because, let’s face it, that’s what this is — keep happening?

Well, the attitude that women can avoid harassment if they just tone down their behavior is an insidious one, and it’s not unique to India. People all over the world buy into the idea that wearing pants instead of a short skirt, avoiding attention-grabbing behavior, and walking with a man are all viable ways to stay off a potential attacker’s radar.

But why can’t we teach nonviolence, rather than defense? Why can’t the police do what’s in their job description: stop crime?

In a country plagued by an epidemic of woman-targeted violence, the police have a responsibility to their people, and it’s not being fulfilled at the moment — especially not by cracking down on selfies.

http://www.ryot.org/india-police-selfies-women-morality-crimes/816105

http://www.buzzfeed.com/regajha/times-of-boobs#4a8vgew

veya_victaous wrote:@didge
so you expect perfection straight away?

they are trying to change the rape culture, it is not as easy as it sounds...
it seems that the actual on the beat officers have just been over zealous in enforcing a rule that was supposed to protect women from potential rapists. they don't deny they need to refine the law so they don't become morality police

The Mumbai chief of police has admitted the squad needs to be re-briefed and not act like a morality force

Exactly the point I was trying to make.

Bit of course someone like Didge (who thinks he knows everything about anything, including a country he knows nothing about), thinks he's figured it all out.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:@didge
so you expect perfection straight away?

they are trying to change the rape culture, it is not as easy as it sounds...
it seems that the actual on the beat officers have just been over zealous in enforcing a rule that was supposed to protect women from potential rapists. they don't deny they need to refine the law so they don't become morality police

Exactly the point I was trying to make.

Bit of course someone like Didge (who thinks he knows everything about anything, including a country he knows nothing about), thinks he's figured it all out.

So both you and Veya are talking the word of a Police chief as Gospel, based on what exactly?
Who is to say this does not go right to the top where clearly even if it did not some officers believe unmarried couples should not be in each others company the point both of you are missing. Where clearly there are some very much against people single being together, which is evident from the second report I posted, where even women are cast with blame for rape also, which is also evident from the report both of which you are missing again.
The reality is this is nothing to do with zealous, normal people holding hands, smiling are not the sort situation where a woman is being molested and even more the point has better protection in the company of men, again which you are both missing.
It is going to take more that just training but a perception held i regards to unmarried couples, which will take decades of training to change perceptions.

The part you both need to read again:



But now that Indian citizens are getting slammed for selfies, people in other parts of the world are noticing a deeply flawed police strategy that targets women and perpetuates a victim-blaming culture.

It’s definitely not limited to selfies: there are countless incidents of women getting in trouble just for being out in public with men. In July 2014, a theater professional and her friend were held for eight hours after police found them riding together on the same bike. In July 2013, a couple was arrested for “suspected immorality” while they spent time together on a beach, solely because they didn’t appear to be married.

So why does state-sanctioned police abuse — because, let’s face it, that’s what this is — keep happening?

Well, the attitude that women can avoid harassment if they just tone down their behavior is an insidious one, and it’s not unique to India. People all over the world buy into the idea that wearing pants instead of a short skirt, avoiding attention-grabbing behavior, and walking with a man are all viable ways to stay off a potential attacker’s radar.


So answer me this does this woman look under duress?

It's not a question of taking somebody's word. But he could have said "this policy is there to protect the morality of India".

After all, India now has a Hindutva (look that up if you don't know) government - where their extremist wing have declared a war on the westernisation of Indian culture.

There is a reason why the constables only bother the lower and middle classes. But if they continue to do so, the upper middle and upper classes will not tolerate such abuse by the Police.

And the upper classes are much more publically affectionate than anyone else. Chicks all over you outside night clubs. They haven't been arrested.

There are far more insidious issues with women's rights India has to deal with. This is not one of them.

@Zack
Exactly, the point is they at least know it is not right.
Like you said He could have Gone the protecting the Virtue/Morals line and didn't.

as you also alluded too there are also issues related to econmic 'caste' that lead into the gender issues as it is a source of so many of the illegitimate 'village leaders rulings' which can see penalties like the rape of a daughter Plus with poverty like there is in India there are some people with out the capacity to stand for their legal rights.

veya_victaous wrote:@Zack
Exactly, the point is they at least know it is not right.
Like you said He could have Gone the protecting the Virtue/Morals line and didn't.

as you also alluded too there are also issues related to econmic 'caste' that lead into the gender issues as it is a source of so many of the illegitimate 'village leaders rulings' which can see penalties like the rape of a daughter  Plus with poverty like there is in India there are some people with out the capacity to stand for their legal rights.

And since poverty is not confined to villages, you have problems in the cities too.

Young girls come from villages to work in the city as maid/servants and can (in some cases) be sexually abused by the man of the house. The maid has no legal recourse. The Police can be bought off (a months wages of a Police man is not that much for the upper classes) and the girl can lose her job - either return home in disgrace or be lost in the big, bad city. It should come as no surprise that many of these girls choose to remain silent.

So yes, there are huge problems in India. But at least acknowledgement is growing and that is the first step. Many more steps to go. And this will take time.

I know you wouldn't Veya but let's not pretend this is a non-western problem. There are girls in this society that surfer abuse in silence also.

bah stupid thing i wrote a long reply but it's lost

any way
I agree I think India has a few different issue poverty is one and where ever there is poverty Abuse is Probable because poor people are easy to abuse.

I think India has a separate issue in some areas with 'tradition' and small local leaders not following the laws and delivering their own judgements which are based on the greed and poor education rather than any idea of justice.

a western woman's best protection is her capacity to be financially independent, it doesn't protect from a random rapist but it does minimise the 'abuse of power' type sexual assaults.

Change can come swiftly look at western attitudes to domestic violence in just 2 generations

you could jail just for saying those things today

Fuzzy Zack wrote:It's not a question of taking somebody's word. But he could have said "this policy is there to protect the morality of India".

After all, India now has a Hindutva (look that up if you don't know) government - where their extremist wing have declared a war on the westernisation of Indian culture.

There is a reason why the constables only bother the lower and middle classes. But if they continue to do so, the upper middle and upper classes will not tolerate such abuse by the Police.

And the upper classes are much more publically affectionate than anyone else. Chicks all over you outside night clubs. They haven't been arrested.

There are far more insidious issues with women's rights India has to deal with. This is not one of them.

Of course it is a issue one which stems at the very heart of the problem in India and other nations in Asia where men are deemed of more importance than women, to claim otherwise is both naive and avoiding the problem, where again you are trying to claim well its not as bad as other problems, lets not concern yourselves over this. What a failed philosophy, where you do is get at the very heart of any problem, the one where clearly there is a discriminatory view of women..

What do you think a root problem is?

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:@Zack
Exactly, the point is they at least know it is not right.
Like you said He could have Gone the protecting the Virtue/Morals line and didn't.

as you also alluded too there are also issues related to econmic 'caste' that lead into the gender issues as it is a source of so many of the illegitimate 'village leaders rulings' which can see penalties like the rape of a daughter  Plus with poverty like there is in India there are some people with out the capacity to stand for their legal rights.

And since poverty is not confined to villages, you have problems in the cities too.

Young girls come from villages to work in the city as maid/servants and can (in some cases) be sexually abused by the man of the house. The maid has no legal recourse. The Police can be bought off (a months wages of a Police man is not that much for the upper classes) and the girl can lose her job - either return home in disgrace or be lost in the big, bad city. It should come as no surprise that many of these girls choose to remain silent.

So yes, there are huge problems in India. But at least acknowledgement is growing and that is the first step. Many more steps to go. And this will take time.

I know you wouldn't Veya but let's not pretend this is a non-western problem. There are girls in this society that surfer abuse in silence also.

A deflective reply, where nobody denies there is problems in the west for women, but we are talking about an issue here which you have wished to down play the very fact there are some people in India where they deem unmarried couples in India as morally wrong let alone how women are treated as if they are some how responsible for if they are raped.
We are talking about this particular situation, where talking about western issues is not going to help the plight and issue of women in India,is it?
Yes there is is also a major issue of class, but the undeniably root cause of the problem is the view face around in regards to women.

Both yourself and Veya ignored the fundamental problem, here tried to deflect away from the fact this had nothing to do with being over Zealous but a view on women and unmarried couples

Didge you're treating a symptom not a cause
actually I would say the selfie thing is a side effect of their recent attempt at treating the issue.
they are behind our current position but they are moving in the right direction, when we consider that even nations like the USA are struggling to move forward on gender, race and economic disparity issues, I think that is all we can ask for... at least they arn't going backwards like parts of the middle east and north Africa ::dunno::

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:It's not a question of taking somebody's word. But he could have said "this policy is there to protect the morality of India".

After all, India now has a Hindutva (look that up if you don't know) government - where their extremist wing have declared a war on the westernisation of Indian culture.

There is a reason why the constables only bother the lower and middle classes. But if they continue to do so, the upper middle and upper classes will not tolerate such abuse by the Police.

And the upper classes are much more publically affectionate than anyone else. Chicks all over you outside night clubs. They haven't been arrested.

There are far more insidious issues with women's rights India has to deal with. This is not one of them.

Of course it is a issue one which stems at the very heart of the problem in India and other nations in Asia where men are deemed of more importance than women, to claim otherwise is both naive and avoiding the problem, where again you are trying to claim well its not as bad as other problems, lets not concern yourselves over this. What a failed philosophy, where you do is get at the very heart of any problem, the one where clearly there is a discriminatory view of women..

What do you think a root problem is?

I'm not trying to claim the problem is that bad. But you were trying to say these incidents are a reason why indian women are raped. Look at your initial posts. Where in fact, this particular incident occurred in order to try and stop sexual abuse.

India still remains highly conservative and there is an actual law against public displays of affection. This law is the root of this precise problem. The law is supported by most of the public.

I refer you to the Shilpa Shetty and Richard Gere case a few years ago. Google it.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


Of course it is a issue one which stems at the very heart of the problem in India and other nations in Asia where men are deemed of more importance than women, to claim otherwise is both naive and avoiding the problem, where again you are trying to claim well its not as bad as other problems, lets not concern yourselves over this. What a failed philosophy, where you do is get at the very heart of any problem, the one where clearly there is a discriminatory view of women..

What do you think a root problem is?

I'm not trying to claim the problem is that bad. But you were trying to say these incidents are a reason why indian women are raped. Look at your initial posts. Where in fact, this particular incident occurred in order to try and stop sexual abuse.

India still remains highly conservative and there is an actual law against public displays of affection. This law is the root of this precise problem. The law is supported by most of the public.

I refer you to the Shilpa Shetty and Richard Gere case a few years ago. Google it.

No it did not occur in response to rape victims, that is a claim based off a fallacy, what has happened is that some Police have used this new measure to instead to go after unmarried couples, which is the reality of the situation getting back to my point on how they view morality, which you admit to yourself above, instead in my view wrongly blaming a law, when a law is based around a perception people hold. It is that perception that needs to change, where people should be able to court without being deemed as morally wrong, and again the problem of religion/culture plays a part here, where marriage is far older than any religious ceremony and yet today in some countries like this they take a religious view towards how people should be married to be in the company of each other.

So there is the heart of your problem, support for a perception where it is made into law, basing a view around a majority does not mean that view is right, we might as well say slavery during its height was okay because back then a majority backed this view point, which of course would be absurd. Thus the root cause stems from the perception of people.