The Modern Liberal Left makes it REALLY hard to still call myself 'Liberal'

OK, bit of a rant coming on!

Note: this is mostly based on things coming from the USA and Canada at the moment, but I read and hear of it spreading toward the UK too, most clearly represented in the video below. It's also more a 'my personal feelings' post, so feel free to skip if you only want links to news articles  

Anyway, as most of you probably know, I've always been pretty solidly 'Liberal' (in terms of my views as well as my party). I am what an American would term 'Liberal' (or so I used to think) but not an Australian!

To this day I support every measure to bring about equality for women, gay people, black people, trans people any other historically marginalized groups. I still consider myself a Leftist in the old fashioned sense: equal opportunities, environmentalism, the welfare state, quality universal healthcare and education, these are all things that form the core of my political beliefs.

And to preface my issue below, this is mostly based on the Liberal SOCIAL issues. Namely gender and sexuality. As said, I am a firm believer in rights for Trans people. If a person born a boy considers themselves a girl, fine. Live as the gender you identify as. And vice versa. Genitalia is not all defining.

BUT. What the absolute **** is all this 'non-binary' BS and this ever expanding range of sexuality.

To give some examples of the BS 'vocabulary' growing in popularity among the increasingly maddening extreme Left (again, mostly in the States but advancing in the UK too) here are some (just the ones I recall!):

Sexualities: gay, straight, lesbian, bi (ok for now), queer, pansexual, asexual, graysexual, demisexual. Want to know those last few? Look them up.

Genders: man, woman (ok), transwoman, transman (fair enough), androgynous, genderfluid, genderneutral etc. etc.

Pronouns for the above? - ze, zir, they, them, hir, co, ey etc. etc.

This is fucking lunacy, isn't it? And there are not more than 2 genders. We are all men and women. Some switch due to their identity, but they switch from one to the other, surely. They don't just stop half way and say 'This'll do'.

It wouldn't be a problem, really, it would take some time to adapt to using some of those nonsense terms but still. But it CAN cause problems. Canada has laws now forbidding misgendering, a concept fine if it's to protect ordinary trans folk being deliberately insulted - but absolutely not ok for some attention seeking androgynous demisexual who prefers to be referred to as 'co' (what the actual fuck is CO?)

Then there is the old bathroom issue. Again, to reiterate, a transman SHOULD be allowed to use the men's bathroom, no question. But what of the 'genderfluid' person who uses the ladies Monday but then sees 'themself' as a gent on Tuesday. You can see why people might take issue. (Of course, gender neutral toilets are a great idea but this is just an example of this attention seeking non-binary crap causing unneeded confusion).

I think they have it all mixed up tbh. You can be a man and wear dresses, no problem. As a society we are getting past the inane idea people have to dress to conform anyway. A woman can wear a tux - cool. I think the confusion for these 'zes' and 'zirs' is that they are wrongly assuming that if, as a woman, they want to wear male boxers, then maybe they aren't really a woman - that's not true! Wear what you like, your clothes don't define you any more than your sexuality does!

Anyway, all this is making it increasingly hard to identify with some modern Liberals for me. I still support equality. I am still anti-Brexit. I am still a liberal socialist. I still think Trump is a monumental disaster etc. But I can't identify with a branch of politics that want to turn language and logic on its head. I am an old school liberal. Not the Left's answer to UKIP and the Tea Party movement  

For an example of the inanity, watch this:



PS: dude (yes 'dude') with the bald head. If you are 'non-binary' then how on earth can you also be 'gay'. If you don't HAVE a gender then you can't 'be gay'. Mental fucking gymnastics right there  

+1

Only one issue, those militants doing this are not liberals. As they do not believe in equality Eilzel. They are illiberals, pushing a political agenda on this.

This is identity politics at its worst.

Didge wrote:+1

Only one issue, those militants doing this are not liberals. As they do not believe in equality Eilzel. They are illiberals, pushing a political agenda on this.

This is identity politics at its worst.

But sadly, as the word conservative and RW was sullied by the Tea Party, BNP, Le Penn and Trump and their supporters, now Liberal is becoming a dirty word too.

I do hope this can be reversed, and hopefully it will all stop when this 'fad' dies as people grow bored of the issue (and indeed pressing it).

Eilzel wrote:

Didge wrote:+1

Only one issue, those militants doing this are not liberals. As they do not believe in equality Eilzel. They are illiberals, pushing a political agenda on this.

This is identity politics at its worst.

But sadly, as the word conservative and RW was sullied by the Tea Party, BNP, Le Penn and Trump and their supporters, now Liberal is becoming a dirty word too.

I do hope this can be reversed, and hopefully it will all stop when this 'fad' dies as people grow bored of the issue (and indeed pressing it).

Indeed, you are right and why those with true liberal values, have to take back the meaning of the work and rightly class those proclaiming to be Liberals. As nothing more than illiberal and it has to come from Liberals.

I agree that I hope it can be reversed, but now people seem to have forgotten what was probematic about religious beliefs being forced onto others. This is no different, its just made up beliefs, where they have decided this is what they are. When in reality they are simple trans people. I mean I dont care how they wish to define themselves. Whether it be trans, Bob Marley, Elvis, ET etc. That is up to them, but they should not then enforce their beliefs onto others and expect people to respect it. I dont respect religious beliefs enforced onto others and not going to except this political beliefs enforced onto others. Like with religion, they are fine, when they do not effect the well being and equality of others. Here these political beliefs are effecting others.

meh to be honest i just don't really care, it's not an issue that i feel effected by

but the basic liberal idea is
that if it's not hurting anybody else it should be allowed

here they are called 'the inner city lefties' and they have always been wankers following trends.
also here you can just call everyone 'mate'

veya_victaous wrote:
meh to be honest i just don't really care, it's not an issue that i feel effected by

but the basic liberal idea is
that if it's not hurting anybody else it should be allowed

here they are called 'the inner city lefties' and they have always been wankers following trends.

also here you can just call everyone 'mate'

A.k.a.  "Chardonnay Socialists"..

Monied and trendy, often 'hip' or faux_bohemian, residents of leafy inner suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne (or their children, in the case of some of the more loopy uni' students..);  frequently "talk the talk" but very rarely "walk the walk".

veya_victaous wrote:meh to be honest i just don't really care, it's not an issue that i feel effected by

but the basic liberal idea is
that if it's not hurting anybody else it should be allowed

here they are called 'the inner city lefties' and they have always been wankers following trends.
also here you can just call everyone 'mate'

Tbf, I'm not exactly losing sleep over it

But it does irritate me since I am gay, and this non-issue is trying to be conflated with LGBT as a whole, as a legitimate other identity comparable to being gay, bi or trans, which it really isn't. It therefore becomes a tool to attack all under that acronym for 'going too far' when many of see the idea of 'demisexuals' to be as ridiculous as the rest.

And the post is an exaggeration tbh, I will always consider myself liberal; but I will also make a distinction between my stances and those of these delusional SJWs.

Eilzel wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:meh to be honest i just don't really care, it's not an issue that i feel effected by

but the basic liberal idea is
that if it's not hurting anybody else it should be allowed

here they are called 'the inner city lefties' and they have always been wankers following trends.
also here you can just call everyone 'mate'

Tbf, I'm not exactly losing sleep over it

But it does irritate me since I am gay, and this non-issue is trying to be conflated with LGBT as a whole, as a legitimate other identity comparable to being gay, bi or trans, which it really isn't. It therefore becomes a tool to attack all under that acronym for 'going too far' when many of see the idea of 'demisexuals' to be as ridiculous as the rest.

And the post is an exaggeration tbh, I will always consider myself liberal; but I will also make a distinction between my stances and those of these delusional SJWs.

At last. Eilzel has left the SJW Empire and joined the rebel alliance....

"The Liberals strike back", with "The return of the true Liberal" against the SJW Totalitarian Empire  

Starring "Eilzel Skywalker," "Princesss Gelico", "Didge Solo", "Master Yoda Foul" and "Ben Mothafuckin Kenobi".

Where they combat "Tommy the Hut" and "Darth Veya"

Bit parts for "Quill-3PO".

May the rational thinking be with you.

Eilzel wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:meh to be honest i just don't really care, it's not an issue that i feel effected by

but the basic liberal idea is
that if it's not hurting anybody else it should be allowed

here they are called 'the inner city lefties' and they have always been wankers following trends.
also here you can just call everyone 'mate'

Tbf, I'm not exactly losing sleep over it

But it does irritate me since I am gay, and this non-issue is trying to be conflated with LGBT as a whole, as a legitimate other identity comparable to being gay, bi or trans, which it really isn't. It therefore becomes a tool to attack all under that acronym for 'going too far' when many of see the idea of 'demisexuals' to be as ridiculous as the rest.

And the post is an exaggeration tbh, I will always consider myself liberal; but I will also make a distinction between my stances and those of these delusional SJWs.

Don't hold a stance, just do a little dance

Progress will come no matter how hard regressive conservatives like Didge cry and scream about it.

Eilzel wrote:And the post is an exaggeration tbh, I will always consider myself liberal...

Les, don't label your life.  Just live it!

anyway it's better than this shit Forbes is trying to spread for RW neocons like Didge

Original Quill wrote:

Eilzel wrote:And the post is an exaggeration tbh, I will always consider myself liberal...

Les, don't label your life.  Just live it!

It hardly makes a difference to me, personally, Quill.

But traditionally it has always been an easy association to make. I am open minded to most things, which to mean makes me liberal. Now, there are people who, based on almost all my beliefs, would see me as liberal. Yet that might lead to them conflating my beliefs with the BS nonsense above. Also, the fact I'm part of the "LGBT community" makes it matter to me.

You did, tbf, only pick out one sentence of what I said. And I tend to like to term 'liberal' and its usual associations. We should compartmentalise or limit ourselves, but some labels are simply factual (you and I ARE men, I AM British) and useful. Also, pretty sure in some of your posts you have tended to bandy labels around too

@Les
the only ones that think even 'most' Liberals are like that are brain dead Right Wingers that can't get it up without a room full of Strawmen to help inflate their hate boners. Look at who promotes the most outlandish SJWs ??? Right wing nutters that want to yell and scream on YouTube.

Stop watching the Ludicrous shit didge and losers like him use to sustain their hate boners they have ZERO basis in reality, one he posted recently that happened to be from Australia was taken 100% out of context, did he care that the conclusion his deranged mind leapt to was 100% bullshit? no, because his hate boner would have gone down.
So he just kept shouting lies, as the worst Right Whingers do.

Don't let the dickheads like Didge Define what a liberal is, sense he doesn't have the slightest Idea

veya_victaous wrote:@Les
the only ones that think even 'most' Liberals are like that are brain dead Right Wingers that can't get it up without a room full of Strawmen to help inflate their hate boners. Look at who promotes the most outlandish SJWs ??? Right wing nutters that want to yell and scream on YouTube.

Stop watching the Ludicrous shit didge and losers like him use to sustain their hate boners they have ZERO basis in reality, one he posted recently that happened to be from Australia was taken 100% out of context, did he care that the conclusion his deranged mind leapt to was 100% bullshit? no, because his hate boner would have gone down.
So he just kept shouting lies, as the worst Right Whingers do.  

Don't let the dickheads like Didge Define what a liberal is, sense he doesn't have the slightest Idea  

He says I am hateful and spouts hate himself

Hilarious

People can make up their own mind that in fact the stuff I post from articles and or even videos are not hate speech

In any form whatsoever

I mean look how scared you are, that you have to again lie with the above and try to deligitimize people with lies. You dont reason but now state not to listen to others. Spoken like a true snowflakem who wish to drown out others views and never tackle problems. They want to live in some invented bubble, to protect them from views they do not like in the world.

Eilzel is his own person and always has been and as seen can easily make up his own mind on every issue

LOL
you are constantly posting transphobic hate speech
you post hate speech all day about whatever gets your hate boner raging (normally this Mysterious 'Militant left' that you fantasise about to try and justify your sick perversion with getting off on Hate)

I mean Didge even ran a call to arms against feminists because he couldn't follow a Satire of the polices response to a Woman rape and murder..

yet he say he post no hate, all he posts is hate and not just the OP look at the sickening way he addresses other posters, let alone anyone that dares disagrees in the slightest

I think it is Shit that Ben lets it stand.

veya_victaous wrote:LOL
you are constantly posting transphobic hate speech
you post hate speech all day about whatever gets your hate boner raging (normally this Mysterious 'Militant left' that you fantasise about to try and justify your sick perversion with getting off on Hate)

Really?

What transphobic hate speech?

You see this is how you constantly lie

I again have stated, I have no isse how people define themselves, but and here is the big but, they should not then expect me or others to buy into their belief systems

They are trans people and like any belief system, where they have invented and created countless non-biological gender terms to describe themselves. Is like any religious belief system. Its a made up concept and should not  be forced onto anyone else. This is coming from some trans people, not all and they do not speak for all trans people either.

So I am not hateful or negative towards transpeople, I am simple stating they should not force their beliefs onto others

They like any belief system, can believe what they want to beieve and good luck to them. They simple should not demand that others buy into their beliefs

Hqave a nice day

Laters

you call being transsexual a 'belief system' that is hate speech
did you call being Homosexual a belief system 10 years ago?
Asshats like you probably did, thankfully progressives didn't listen to backward ass regressives like you.


and the Great Hypocrisy that You Want to Force people to Accept your Bullshit lies (you wont even let people question them without getting all pissy and rude) but your not going to refer to someone by the name they are comfortable with...
again You are a Hate filled asshole, an opinion reached by reading your posts

veya_victaous wrote:you call being transsexual  a 'belief system' that is hate speech

Didge wrote: Lie number 1. Never claimed any such thing and clearly stated there is trans people. I stated quite clearly that many non-binary terms for gender are made up and that such beliefs should not beforeced onto others. There is certainly biology with how some people are born with what is classed as the opposite sex brains

did you call being Homosexual a belief system 10 years ago?

Didge wrote: Well considering you got the first point wrong and that I have never denied there is trans people or called it a belief system, why would you make an even more absurd claims

Asshats like you probably did, thankfully progressives didn't listen to backward ass regressives like you.

You see I think the real problem here is you do what others wrongly do. You wrongly interpret what someone says, turn into to something completely different to nothing they have said

Laters, I have to go to work

veya_victaous wrote:@Les
the only ones that think even 'most' Liberals are like that are brain dead Right Wingers that can't get it up without a room full of Strawmen to help inflate their hate boners. Look at who promotes the most outlandish SJWs ??? Right wing nutters that want to yell and scream on YouTube.

Stop watching the Ludicrous shit didge and losers like him use to sustain their hate boners they have ZERO basis in reality, one he posted recently that happened to be from Australia was taken 100% out of context, did he care that the conclusion his deranged mind leapt to was 100% bullshit? no, because his hate boner would have gone down.
So he just kept shouting lies, as the worst Right Whingers do.

Don't let the dickheads like Didge Define what a liberal is, sense he doesn't have the slightest Idea

It isn't just people like didge tbf.

The video I posted is just one of a hideous number of similar "what not to say to..." programmes run by the BBC. I see various people, including a few Youtubers I watch, saying that we should 'watch our pronouns', 'check our privilege' and other related BS. The slow but steady stream of ridiculous stories like the removal of Kiplings poem from a Manchester University wall and the fierce debate to get rid of a statue of Cecil Rhodes from another UK University, are all linked to this absolute crap. It could very well all lead to a drastic crashing of the progress the likes of you and I like to see; because these debate ARE pointless and fairly irritating to some. It is an attempt to censor history and flip language on its head. It IS a threat to what many see as their culture.

And it seems to be happening as a directionless and militant offshoot of some liberal minded people who are running out of battles to fight. It is absolutely bizarre that after gaining equality for women, achieving gay marriage, eradicating the most harmful racism, and rapidly improving the lots still in all those areas, that people now start looking for fights which needn't be there.

Why can't those people just sit back and enjoy the results of those gains? Why can't they move to highlighting REAL issues in parts of the world where those fights still need to be fought? WHY must they start destroying art and language instead?

And again, this isn't just people like didge (or REAL hard RWers across the net)' this is things I've seen, heard and read from the SJW nuts themselves, however well intentioned.

Eilzel wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Les, don't label your life.  Just live it!

It hardly makes a difference to me, personally, Quill.

But traditionally it has always been an easy association to make. I am open minded to most things, which to mean makes me liberal. Now, there are people who, based on almost all my beliefs, would see me as liberal. Yet that might lead to them conflating my beliefs with the BS nonsense above. Also, the fact I'm part of the "LGBT community" makes it matter to me.

You did, tbf, only pick out one sentence of what I said. And I tend to like to term 'liberal' and its usual associations. We should compartmentalise or limit ourselves, but some labels are simply factual (you and I ARE men, I AM British) and useful. Also, pretty sure in some of your posts you have tended to bandy labels around too

I only selected the one sentence because that was the thought that grabbed me.

Yes, labels are the ways we all grasp and identify the world.  I'm not knocking the use of labels.  But it does a number on you when you send out a label, do a 180°, and bring it back and try to let it define or oppress you.  (I mean, if it's uncomfortable, it doesn't fit.)  

I think it's better when you don't try to live a label, but use life to issue labels...by which you define outer life.  Let the flow be inner feeling...to verbalizing and through words, to developing the labels.  In that way, let the label work for you, rather than you trying to conform to it. (I'm not beginning to touch on the LGBT application, so this says nothing about that.)

I think that's it.  Make sense to you?

Didge wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:you call being transsexual  a 'belief system' that is hate speech

Didge wrote: Lie number 1. Never claimed any such thing and clearly stated there is trans people. I stated quite clearly that many non-binary terms for gender are made up and that such beliefs should not beforeced onto others. There is certainly biology with how some people are born with what is classed as the opposite sex brains

did you call being Homosexual a belief system 10 years ago?

Didge wrote: Well considering you got the first point wrong and that I have never denied there is trans people or called it a belief system, why would you make an even more absurd claims

Asshats like you probably did, thankfully progressives didn't listen to backward ass regressives like you.

You see I think the real problem here is you do what others wrongly do. You wrongly interpret what someone says, turn into to something completely different to nothing they have said

Laters, I have to go to work

Didge wrote:I again have stated, I have no isse how people define themselves, but and here is the big but, they should not then expect me or others to buy into their belief systems

They are trans people and like any belief system, where they have invented and created countless non-biological gender terms to describe themselves. Is like any religious belief system. Its a made up concept and should not be forced onto anyone else. This is coming from some trans people, not all and they do not speak for all trans people either.

So I am not hateful or negative towards transpeople, I am simple stating they should not force their beliefs onto others

They like any belief system, can believe what they want to beieve and good luck to them. They simple should not demand that others buy into their beliefs

your post directly before mine, we already know you don't read half of what you post. but the blatant denial immediately after posting it is Trump Level self delusion

Eilzel wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:@Les
the only ones that think even 'most' Liberals are like that are brain dead Right Wingers that can't get it up without a room full of Strawmen to help inflate their hate boners. Look at who promotes the most outlandish SJWs ??? Right wing nutters that want to yell and scream on YouTube.

Stop watching the Ludicrous shit didge and losers like him use to sustain their hate boners they have ZERO basis in reality, one he posted recently that happened to be from Australia was taken 100% out of context, did he care that the conclusion his deranged mind leapt to was 100% bullshit? no, because his hate boner would have gone down.
So he just kept shouting lies, as the worst Right Whingers do.

Don't let the dickheads like Didge Define what a liberal is, sense he doesn't have the slightest Idea

It isn't just people like didge tbf.

The video I posted is just one of a hideous number of similar "what not to say to..." programmes run by the BBC. I see various people, including a few Youtubers I watch, saying that we should 'watch our pronouns', 'check our privilege' and other related BS. The slow but steady stream of ridiculous stories like the removal of Kiplings poem from a Manchester University wall and the fierce debate to get rid of a statue of Cecil Rhodes from another UK University, are all linked to this absolute crap. It could very well all lead to a drastic crashing of the progress the likes of you and I like to see; because these debate ARE pointless and fairly irritating to some. It is an attempt to censor history and flip language on its head. It IS a threat to what many see as their culture.

And it seems to be happening as a directionless and militant offshoot of some liberal minded people who are running out of battles to fight. It is absolutely bizarre that after gaining equality for women, achieving gay marriage, eradicating the most harmful racism, and rapidly improving the lots still in all those areas, that people now start looking for fights which needn't be there.

Why can't those people just sit back and enjoy the results of those gains? Why can't they move to highlighting REAL issues in parts of the world where those fights still need to be fought? WHY must they start destroying art and language instead?

And again, this isn't just people like didge (or REAL hard RWers across the net)' this is things I've seen, heard and read from the SJW nuts themselves, however well intentioned.

it because you're/they're British


ABC(Aussie BBC) runs the opposite series
'You can't ask that' Where they proceed to ask people that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Can%27t_Ask_That

And the Greats crimes are still unaddressed, and they centre around the lie that the indigenous where the barbarians and the whites were civilized.
it was the other way around. clearly there was a group of Murderous thieves and they came from Europe.

the Complete Bullshit that Europeans try and pass of as 'history' needs to be corrected.

your right and it's meant to be...

It IS a threat to what many see as their culture.

maybe the issue is You're more British than liberal
because of course that propaganda of the Liar and oppressor needs to be FIXED

Cecil Rhodes statues should be taken down and put in Museums where there is information to show what an Evil Human he was, the world should never forget that a Man can be that evil.

and the British that still call him anything different treated like a German that Calls Hitler a good man, Rhodes is worse since his evil was not even restricted to his continent.

veya_victaous wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:@Les
the only ones that think even 'most' Liberals are like that are brain dead Right Wingers that can't get it up without a room full of Strawmen to help inflate their hate boners. Look at who promotes the most outlandish SJWs ??? Right wing nutters that want to yell and scream on YouTube.

Stop watching the Ludicrous shit didge and losers like him use to sustain their hate boners they have ZERO basis in reality, one he posted recently that happened to be from Australia was taken 100% out of context, did he care that the conclusion his deranged mind leapt to was 100% bullshit? no, because his hate boner would have gone down.
So he just kept shouting lies, as the worst Right Whingers do.

Don't let the dickheads like Didge Define what a liberal is, sense he doesn't have the slightest Idea

It isn't just people like didge tbf.

The video I posted is just one of a hideous number of similar "what not to say to..." programmes run by the BBC. I see various people, including a few Youtubers I watch, saying that we should 'watch our pronouns', 'check our privilege' and other related BS. The slow but steady stream of ridiculous stories like the removal of Kiplings poem from a Manchester University wall and the fierce debate to get rid of a statue of Cecil Rhodes from another UK University, are all linked to this absolute crap. It could very well all lead to a drastic crashing of the progress the likes of you and I like to see; because these debate ARE pointless and fairly irritating to some. It is an attempt to censor history and flip language on its head. It IS a threat to what many see as their culture.

And it seems to be happening as a directionless and militant offshoot of some liberal minded people who are running out of battles to fight. It is absolutely bizarre that after gaining equality for women, achieving gay marriage, eradicating the most harmful racism, and rapidly improving the lots still in all those areas, that people now start looking for fights which needn't be there.

Why can't those people just sit back and enjoy the results of those gains? Why can't they move to highlighting REAL issues in parts of the world where those fights still need to be fought? WHY must they start destroying art and language instead?

And again, this isn't just people like didge (or REAL hard RWers across the net)' this is things I've seen, heard and read from the SJW nuts themselves, however well intentioned.

it because you're/they're  British


ABC(Aussie BBC) runs the opposite series
'You can't ask that' Where they proceed to ask people that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Can%27t_Ask_That

And the Greats crimes are still unaddressed, and they centre around the lie that the indigenous where the barbarians and the whites were civilized.
it was the other way around. clearly there was a group of Murderous thieves and they came from Europe.

the Complete Bullshit that Europeans try and pass of as 'history' needs to be corrected.

your right and it's meant to be...

It IS a threat to what many see as their culture.

maybe the issue is You're more British than liberal
because of course that propaganda of the Liar and oppressor needs to be FIXED

All I'm talking about is happening in America and Canada as well, worse in the case of the pronoun fiasco. So you can't pass this off as a 'British thing'.

And no, our history doesn't need to be 'corrected'. Anyone whole claims Cecil Rhodes wasn't racist and isn't a controversial figure by today's standards is ignorant, but removing his statue doesn't change anything, and only increases the possibility of him and his controversial legacy being forgotten.

Of course I'm more British than liberal, as you are more Aussie than whatever you might call your political beliefs. One can change, the other cannot (really). Again though, as I started with, the key issue we are talking about started in the States and is only recently sweeping in to the UK, it is a problem for both.

I'm proud of my country, overall, in spite of its many, many problem crimes; as I'm proud to call myself a liberal, despite the idiocy of many SJWs.

I dunno I think i am more my beliefs than my nationality If i moved nations my core principals would be the same.

I like most liberals don't really care about the genders thing so it is silly to suggest that defines the liberal direction. I do admit Canada was a out of the blue, and really in the USA there are more states defining if baker has to sell a gay wedding cake than there is with 'pronoun' laws.

maybe Aussie liberals are immune because we need to Correct the Lies the British tell to make themselves look good in history
"The Barbarians first landed in 1777...."

veya_victaous wrote:I dunno I think i am more my beliefs than my nationality If i moved nations my core principals would be the same.

I like most liberals don't really care about the genders thing so it is silly to suggest that defines the liberal direction. I do admit Canada was a out of the blue, and really in the USA there are more states defining if baker has to sell a gay wedding cake than there is with 'pronoun' laws.

maybe Aussie liberals are immune because we need to Correct the Lies the British tell to make themselves look good in history
"The Barbarians first landed in 1777...."

Your national identity wouldn't change if you left Oz. Your views over time can and some probably will change.

I'm not suggesting pronouns or bitch fits over statues and poems do define liberalism, but others do.

And I think you credit Britain with too much importance in current Aussie politics. Oz tends to be behind on liberal issues tbf, so this will probably start happening there in the next year or two

veya_victaous wrote:
Cecil Rhodes statues should be taken down and put in Museums where there is information to show what an Evil Human he was, the world should never forget that a Man can be that evil.

and the British that still call him anything different treated like a German that Calls Hitler a good man, Rhodes is worse since his evil was not even restricted to his continent.  

Cecil Rhodes --  evil, war-criminal, corporatist stooge, and hired mercenary facilitator to help British, Dutch and German financial interests set up their slave-trading gold and diamond mining interests in South Africa and the Zimbabwe/Rhodesia region...

As in Australia, New Zealand, North America, India, the Carribean, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore  --  the British government and "establishment" still glorifies and deifies those "heroes" who assisted in raping, murdering and pillaging foreign countries throughout the 17th, 18th, 19th centuries and well into the 20th centuries.

The sad fact that a couple of the ultra-right whingers, and some of the NF Hens Club and Knitting Circle, still consider the likes of Cecil Rhodes, Rudyard Kipling, Montgomery, and/or Winston Churchill to be "Great" British figures, says more about their own lack of humanity and any sense of fairness, than it says about a pride in their country and its sordid colonial history..    

Any countries with a decent amount of colonising foreign countries and invading neighbouring states in their history --  Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Russia, China, the USA, Japan, Holland, etc.  --  of course don't want to admit to too much wrogdoing in the past...   The $$trillions$$ in potential reparations and corrections could destroy the present-day shaky and jumpy global economy..

Jealous are you, cause your countries did fuck all to further the march of civilisation, my country bred some right bastards to make the English Empire the greatest the World has ever seen, while your lot just sat back and took the rewards of the great Explorers with both hands without ever risking anything, fucking snowflakes of that time !

Cecil Rhodes was none of those things in his early life his workers were paid well and spoke well of him, he helped many of them to purchase their own claims. He never showed any signs of racism at that time.

Original Quill wrote:

Eilzel wrote:And the post is an exaggeration tbh, I will always consider myself liberal...

Les, don't label your life.  Just live it!

Hey....you sound like me!

Vintage wrote:
Cecil Rhodes was none of those things in his early life his workers were paid well  and spoke well of him, he helped many of them to purchase their own claims. He never showed any signs of racism at that time.

You're really showing your age if you knew Cecil Rhodes when he was young...

You should change your name from Vintage to "Ancient"..

veya_victaous wrote:

Didge wrote:

You see I think the real problem here is you do what others wrongly do. You wrongly interpret what someone says, turn into to something completely different to nothing they have said

Laters, I have to go to work

Didge wrote:I again have stated, I have no isse how people define themselves, but and here is the big but, they should not then expect me or others to buy into their belief systems

They are trans people and like any belief system, where they have invented and created countless non-biological gender terms to describe themselves. Is like any religious belief system. Its a made up concept and should not  be forced onto anyone else. This is coming from some trans people, not all and they do not speak for all trans people either.

So I am not hateful or negative towards transpeople, I am simple stating they should not force their beliefs onto others

They like any belief system, can believe what they want to beieve and good luck to them. They simple should not demand that others buy into their beliefs

your post directly before mine, we already know you don't read half of what you post. but the blatant denial immediately after posting it is Trump Level self delusion

Still not understanding and I have bolded the parts you missed, that would have helped any rational person understand what I was saying

You see I do noy buy into their beliefs around the invented non-binary gender words

Its easy for anyone rationl to see that is the point I am making

You however based on the fact you have the intellect of a toddler, and even after have explain this, fail to see its you inventing something I hhave not said. Its why I use words like their belief system. Its the same towards any political group, as again many Trans people do not buy into such belief systems around the invented terminology they use 

I do not buy into the beliefs of a number of trans people. As invented gender terms, that have no biological bases is no morwe than a political concept

So its you not grasping what I have said, its even more clear in the previous post before my last

Really?

What transphobic hate speech?

You see this is how you constantly lie

I again have stated, I have no issue how people define themselves, but and here is the big but, they should not then expect me or others to buy into their belief systems. That does not mean Trans people are a belief system but some hold the same poor made up beliefs

Doh

They are trans people and like any belief system, where they have invented and created countless non-biological gender terms to describe themselves. Is like any religious belief system. Its a made up concept and should not  be forced onto anyone else. This is coming from some trans people, not all and they do not speak for all trans people either.

So I am not hateful or negative towards transpeople, I am simple stating they should not force their beliefs onto others

They like any belief system, can believe what they want to beieve and good luck to them. They simple should not demand that others buy into their beliefs

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Vintage wrote:
Cecil Rhodes was none of those things in his early life his workers were paid well  and spoke well of him, he helped many of them to purchase their own claims. He never showed any signs of racism at that time.

You're really showing your age if you knew Cecil Rhodes when he was young...

You should change your name from Vintage to "Ancient"..

.Nice one. Very good indeed.

Instead of ripping staues down and denying history in the context of the time, why not by counter the racism by having as many Rhodes scholars as possible who aren't white. We seem to have made a good start the first was in 1907 and I think there are 10 African American Rhodes scholars in 2018.

Eilzel wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:I dunno I think i am more my beliefs than my nationality If i moved nations my core principals would be the same.

I like most liberals don't really care about the genders thing so it is silly to suggest that defines the liberal direction. I do admit Canada was a out of the blue, and really in the USA there are more states defining if baker has to sell a gay wedding cake than there is with 'pronoun' laws.

maybe Aussie liberals are immune because we need to Correct the Lies the British tell to make themselves look good in history
"The Barbarians first landed in 1777...."

Your national identity wouldn't change if you left Oz. Your views over time can and some probably will change.

I'm not suggesting pronouns or bitch fits over statues and poems do define liberalism, but others do.

And I think you credit Britain with too much importance in current Aussie politics. Oz tends to be behind on liberal issues tbf, so this will probably start happening there in the next year or two

we had gay 'de factos' back in the early 2000's, legally marriage has no point here, we weren't behind, we solved it differently before so there was no need for gay marriage. Progressive Liberal women here (like Julia Gillard) wanted to end the institution of marriage not add to it
It was actually that the rest of the West was not progressive or Liberal Enough, so half assed it and just extended to conservative institution with deeply theological overtones.

and beside that
we had women's vote first in the western world.

it's aboriginals that are important and stopping Lying barbaric thieves claiming to have bought them civilization

Vintage wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Vintage wrote:
Cecil Rhodes was none of those things in his early life his workers were paid well  and spoke well of him, he helped many of them to purchase their own claims. He never showed any signs of racism at that time.

You're really showing your age if you knew Cecil Rhodes when he was young...

You should change your name from Vintage to "Ancient"..

.Nice one. Very good indeed.

Instead of ripping staues down and denying history in the context of the time, why not by counter the racism by having as many Rhodes scholars as possible who aren't white. We seem to have made a good start the first was in 1907 and I think there are 10 African American Rhodes scholars in 2018.

Why not just Idolize Hitler ?
Make a Hitler Scholarship and get as many Jews, Gypsies and Gays involved as possible

this is exactly what we need to correct
Rhodes was a monster and history needs to record him as the monster he was, and yes record the context too, that he was just part of evil barbarous culture that glorified the rape and pillage of others.

Vintage wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


You're really showing your age if you knew Cecil Rhodes when he was young...

You should change your name from Vintage to "Ancient"..

.Nice one. Very good indeed.

Instead of ripping staues down and denying history in the context of the time, why not by counter the racism by having as many Rhodes scholars as possible who aren't white. We seem to have made a good start the first was in 1907 and I think there are 10 African American Rhodes scholars in 2018.

The latest group of U.S. Rhodes scholars includes 10 African Americans — the most ever in a single Rhodes class — as well as a transgender man and four students from colleges that had never had received the honor before.

The Rhodes Trust on Sunday announced the 32 men and women chosen for post-graduate studies at Oxford University in England. Among them: the first black woman to lead the Corps of Cadets at West Point; a wrestler at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who's helping develop a prosthetic knee for use in the developing world; and a Portland, Oregon, man who has studied gaps in his hometown's "sanctuary city" policy protecting immigrants in the country illegally from deportation.

"This year's selections — independently elected by 16 committees around the country meeting simultaneously — reflects the rich diversity of America," Elliot F. Gerson, American secretary of the Rhodes Trust, said in a news release announcing the winners Sunday. "They plan to study a wide range of fields across the social sciences, biological and medical sciences, physical sciences and mathematics, and the humanities."

The scholarships, considered by many to be the most prestigious available to American students, cover all expenses for two or three years of study starting next October. In some cases, the scholarships may allow funding for four years. The winners came from a group of 866 applicants who were endorsed by 299 colleges and universities. Four of the institutions had winners for the first time: Hunter College at the City University of New York; Temple University in Philadelphia; the University of Alaska in Anchorage; and the University of Maryland, Baltimore County.

The 10 African Americans in the class include Simone Askew, of Fairfax, Virginia, who made headlines in August when she became the first black woman to serve as first captain of the 4,400-member Corps of Cadets at the U.S. Military Academy — the highest position in the cadet chain of command at West Point. Askew, a senior, is majoring in international history, focused her undergraduate thesis on the use of rape as a tool of genocide and plans to study evidence-based social intervention at Oxford.

Her mother told reporters over the summer: "That leadership is something I've seen throughout her life — wanting to be first, wanting to be the best, wanting to win, in sports, in academics, in every aspect of her life. ... And to serve others, as well."

Several of the winners have devoted efforts to racial, social and economic justice.

Harvard College senior Tania N. Fabo, of Saugus, Massachusetts, created and codirected the first Black Health Matters Conference at the university. An immigrant who was born in Germany to Cameroonian parents, she plans to research oncology at Oxford.

"I'm still kind of in shock," Fabo said Sunday. "When they told me on Saturday I didn't really fully believe it."

Samantha M. Mack, the first winner from the University of Alaska Anchorage, is an Aleut woman who was born in a remote village before her parents brought her to Anchorage for better educational opportunities. She studies political theory from an indigenous and feminist perspective.

Thamara V. Jean, of Brooklyn, New York, completed her senior thesis at Hunter College of the City University of New York on the Black Lives Matter movement. Jean is a child of Haitian immigrants, according to Debbie Raskin, a spokeswoman for Hunter College.

And JaVaughn T. "J.T." Flowers, who graduated this year from Yale University with a degree in political science, helped start an organization at Yale that provides mentors, tutors and summer stipends to make sure low-income students receive the same academic opportunities as others. Flowers has also examined gaps in Portland's sanctuary city policy. After graduating, he returned to Portland to work in the field office of Democratic U.S. Rep. Earl Blumenauer, who said Flowers has worked on a variety of issues, including on how high costs of phone or video calls in prisons not only rip off the inmates, but make it harder for them to keep in touch with their families and thus to readjust to society when they're released.

"He's just an outstanding candidate for the Rhodes," Blumenauer said Sunday. "He's a very quick study, very good with people, an incisive listener who is able to translate that back to people who contact him and to the staff in our office. We're excited for him, and we're excited for what he's going to do when he's back."

Calvin Runnels, of Baton Rouge, Louisiana, is the second self-identified transgender Rhodes scholar from the U.S., following Pema McLaughlin, who was named a winner last year. A senior at the Georgia Institute of Technology, he has organized rallies in solidarity with the immigrant community and led efforts to increase the number of gender-neutral bathrooms on campus. Runnels will study biochemistry at Oxford. His research investigates the origin of the ribosome, which could provide insight into the origins of life, the Rhodes Trust said.

Matthew Chun, of Arlington, Virginia, the captain of MIT's wrestling team, researches the impact of intellectual property law on innovation and has worked as a patent technology specialist. He leads a team designing the first prosthetic knee for use in the developing world. He plans to study jurisprudence at Oxford.

Also selected was an international group of scholars representing 64 different countries. About 100 scholars will be selected worldwide this year.

The scholarships are worth about $68,000 per year, according to the Rhodes Trust.

The first class of American Rhodes Scholars entered Oxford in 1904.


https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2017-11-19/some-firsts-among-32-us-students-picked-as-rhodes-scholars

veya_victaous wrote:

Vintage wrote:
.Nice one. Very good indeed.

Instead of ripping staues down and denying history in the context of the time, why not by counter the racism by having as many Rhodes scholars as possible who aren't white. We seem to have made a good start the first was in 1907 and I think there are 10 African American Rhodes scholars in 2018.

Why not just Idolize Hitler ?
Make a Hitler Scholarship and get as many Jews, Gypsies and Gays involved as possible

this is exactly what we need to correct
Rhodes was a monster and history needs to record him as the monster he was, and yes record the context too, that he was just part of evil barbarous culture that glorified the rape and pillage of others.  

There is no doubt that Rhodes was racist and a white supremacist colonialist

What better way to right the wrongs of his past, by using his ill gotten gains. To ensure a mass of bright and intelligent people have the chance of scholarships and better futures through the trust.

One could argue that the name of the scholarship should change and its something I think should be given some serious thought to do. As some Rhodes scholars in the group "Redress Rhodes" have already argued. "Whose mission was to "attain a more critical, honest, and inclusive reflection of the legacy of Cecil John Rhodes" and to "make reparative justice a more central theme for Rhodes Scholars."

Nobody denies what kind of racist and colonialist he was and this should always be taught and I am sure. If alive today, he would be horrified where his money is going towards many ethnic non-white people. What better way of sticking two fingers up to his racist legacy. By having countless non-white ethnic pleople offered scholarships through the trust.

Didge wrote:What better way to right the wrongs of his past, by using his ill gotten gains. To ensure a mass of bright and intelligent people have the chance of scholarships and better futures through the trust.

What a wonderful tradition. Let's have a Hitler Scholarship at the University of Munich. A Goebbels Scholarship at the Mönchengladbach Academy of Rhetoric, etc.

All of them as a kinda, I'm sorry...didn't mean to cause any trouble.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:What better way to right the wrongs of his past, by using his ill gotten gains. To ensure a mass of bright and intelligent people have the chance of scholarships and better futures through the trust.

What a wonderful tradition.  Let's have a Hitler Scholarship at the University of Munich.  A Goebbels Scholarship at the  Mönchengladbach Academy of Rhetoric, etc.

All of them as a kinda, I'm sorry...didn't mean to cause any trouble.  

Well which out of the 3 left a trust fund with the University of Munich or Monchengladbach for scholarships?

Do either universities have a Hitler or Goebbels trust foundation?

Where did I say he did not mean to cause trouble?

Never did

I said as sticking two fingers up to his racism, by using his ill gotten gains

I also said about changing the name should be considered

The ultra Far left just warped things into something not said

@Didge
maybe if you called it 'the Reparations for Rhodes scholarship', and it focused on what a terrible destructive figure he was in history then it would be acceptable