Can People on the Left and the Right Still Talk?

In his recent Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress(reviewed here), Steven Pinker bemoans the increasing political partisanship of recent decades. "Troublingly, each side has become more contemptuous of the other. . . . The ideologues on each side have also become more resistant to compromise.” “Political tribalism is the most insidious form of irrationality today.” Pinker is sympathetic to moderate liberalism and favors a pragmatic, rather than ideological, attitude to politics. He often quotes favorably Philip Tetlock, who also favors a pragmatic approach and has commented on both left-wing and right-wing biases.

To lessen our biases, to create a less toxic political atmosphere, to further the common good, and to create a better America what we clearly need is less name-calling and more dialogue.

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/168787

People will only communicate better when they realise that they need to always be honest and open when they talk to anyone.

Those on the far left and the far right are almost entirely identical in their ways, in any case. Both are rabid obsessive and immoveable and believe they are better than “the other side”.

Why would RW and LW wish to talk? Now that Russo-Republican, anti-American politics has entered the realm of unlawfulness, to try to share any efforts is to participate in the other side's criminal conduct.

As I have said so often, Why would the cops want to help the robbers??

Original Quill wrote:Why would RW and LW wish to talk?  Now that Russo-Republican, anti-American politics has entered the realm of unlawfulness, to try to share any efforts is to participate in the other side's criminal conduct.

As I have said so often, Why would the cops want to help the robbers??

We talk and debate daily on here. You just have a warped sterotype of anyone right wing of Stalin.

As Eddie says, it takes people being honest and finding the ability to work together, for the greater good of everyone, but sadly those. Like yourself place your own political needs above others.

Its called compremising.

@Eddie, completely agree with your point witg those on the Far left and the Far Right. Which both are gaining ground in Europe.

I don't care for the extremes from either side.

Right wing turds, and their moralist-inspired p/c twonks, only want to fuck over the planet in the long term, to fulfill their own short-term greed and selfish desires (we see that every day with current policies from those conservative/business parties running the show today..);

Far-Left-wing idealogues, and their more anarchistic p/c brethren, get so far into their own twisted agendas, that they're equally prepared to screw up our world by ignoring the consequences (think Mao, Stalin, and on a smaller scale some failed "utopian" communities..).

"East is east, and west is west, and never the twain..".

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Why would RW and LW wish to talk?  Now that Russo-Republican, anti-American politics has entered the realm of unlawfulness, to try to share any efforts is to participate in the other side's criminal conduct.

As I have said so often, Why would the cops want to help the robbers??

We talk and debate daily on here. You just have a warped sterotype of anyone right wing of Stalin.

As Eddie says, it takes people being honest and finding the ability to work together, for the greater good of everyone, but sadly those. Like yourself place your own political needs above others.

Its called compremising.

@Eddie, completely agree with your point witg those on the Far left and the Far Right. Which both are gaining ground in Europe.

And I completely back your points against Quill.  What he said was bloody ignorant and offers no hope of a unified world.
I’m a little surprised at him tbh he’s not usually so dismissive.

eddie wrote:

Didge wrote:

We talk and debate daily on here. You just have a warped sterotype of anyone right wing of Stalin.

As Eddie says, it takes people being honest and finding the ability to work together, for the greater good of everyone, but sadly those. Like yourself place your own political needs above others.

Its called compremising.

@Eddie, completely agree with your point witg those on the Far left and the Far Right. Which both are gaining ground in Europe.

And I completely back your points against Quill.  What he said was bloody ignorant and offers no hope of a unified world.
I’m a little surprised at him tbh he’s not usually so dismissive.

There is a simple reason. I think Quill has allowed dispair to control his reasoning. Hence negative emotions

Quill, is one person, who I see as very intelligent, but since the advent of Trump. Has failed to counter this with reason, but allowed to take control. Though, I have faith in him, to draw back from this and see how best to combat problems.

It should not be a case of us and them, politically, but about doing what is right for the well being and equality of everyone. As once people go down the road of hate, it always ends up ugly.

Totally agree with your last paragraph.

I dont understand the dismissive attitude some people have if others are not of the same polital stance as they are themselves.

Surely there is something lacking if a person can only identify with others who have the same mindset as they do.

We can all listen to others even if we dont agree with them.

eddie wrote:

Didge wrote:

We talk and debate daily on here. You just have a warped sterotype of anyone right wing of Stalin.

As Eddie says, it takes people being honest and finding the ability to work together, for the greater good of everyone, but sadly those. Like yourself place your own political needs above others.

Its called compremising.

@Eddie, completely agree with your point witg those on the Far left and the Far Right. Which both are gaining ground in Europe.

And I completely back your points against Quill.  What he said was bloody ignorant and offers no hope of a unified world.
I’m a little surprised at him tbh he’s not usually so dismissive.

Yeah, right...loser. They call appeasers 'snowflake'...know why?  Because they give in, they're patsies. They're so easy.  If you stand your ground, like I argue, they respect you  Go figure.  The only thing that Obama did wrong is not to imprison a couple of senators, so they could hold the lawful vote on Merrick Garland to be seated on the Supreme Court.

Republicans would have done it...they fired Comey because he wouldn't stop investigating Trump. If they can bend the law, why not go all the way?  Republicans shoot first and ask questions later.  Figure it out you weaklings.  Republicans would be the first to tell you: you gotta use muscle around politics.

Do y'all know the story of Neville Chamberlain? All I'm asking of Democrats is use some hard tactics...fight fire with fire.  Compromise is giving in.  Cooperation is for losers. If you give in, all they do is change the line of scrimmage on you.  You might as well not even participate...Cooperators and appeasers are pussies.

Syl wrote:I dont understand the dismissive attitude some people have if others are not of the same polital stance as they are themselves.

Surely there is something lacking if a person can only identify with others who have the same mindset as they do.

We can all listen to others even if we dont agree with them.

And after you are done wasting your time, get in the fight! The other side is waiting for you.

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:


And I completely back your points against Quill.  What he said was bloody ignorant and offers no hope of a unified world.
I’m a little surprised at him tbh he’s not usually so dismissive.

Yeah, right...loser.  They call appeasers 'snowflake'...know why?  Because they give in, they're patsies.  They're so easy.  If you stand your ground, like I argue, they respect you  Go figure.  The only thing that Obama did wrong is not to imprison a couple of senators, so they could hold the lawful vote on Merrick Garland to be seated on the Supreme Court.

Republicans would have done it...they fired Comey because he wouldn't stop investigating Trump.  If they can bend the law, why not go all the way?  Republicans shoot first and ask questions later.  Figure it out you weaklings.  Republicans would be the first to tell you: you gotta use muscle around politics.

Do y'all know the story of Neville Chamberlain?  All I'm asking of Democrats is use some hard tactics...fight fire with fire.  Compromise is giving in.  Cooperation is for losers.  If you give in, all they do is change the line of scrimmage on you.  You might as well not even participate...Cooperators and appeasers are pussies.

So now Quill is comparing the Nazi's to the present Republicans?

WTF and this further proves my point where people are led by hate.

Instead of reasoning to vote for someone else, Quill instead invokes a view, that the Republicans in power, is comparable to the Nazi's during the 1930's. Of course this very same unfounded claim is made against Israel. This is done by people to make hate acceptable against people, by comparing them to some of the worst people in history.


Holy crap on a cracker.

Whilts I think Trump is an unhinged loon, the man is all about ego and will lose the next Presidential election.

Didge wrote:So now Quill is comparing the Nazi's to the present Republicans?

That's an apt description you raise.  Look, people are either concerned about each other, or they are selfish.  Republicans (conservatives) and Nazis are both selfish.

The selfish are out for themselves...by definition, they are selfish.  They don't need your help; and there's nothing in it for you if they ask.  The selfish eventually distill down to lies, and inevitably to despotism.

You might as well realize that going into the political ring.  The idea that there is something to be gained by cooperating with another, whose sole aim is steal the gold from your teeth after he kills you, is ludicrous.

You delude yourself into thinking that there is some cleansing process that will happen to him, once you enter into a constitutional process.  All he will do is cheat, and change the constitutional process in mid-stream.  Why did the Republican refuse to even take up Merrick Garland's appointment to the S.Ct. for a year-and-a-half?  That's not what the Constitution says about advice and consent.  So, they changed the rules.

Those whose sole motive is selfishness, have no intent to cooperate.  They only intend to deceive.  Forget about cooperation, or get yourself another partner.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:So now Quill is comparing the Nazi's to the present Republicans?

That's an apt description you raise.  Look, people are either concerned about each other, or they are selfish.  Republicans (conservatives) and Nazis are both selfish.

.

So yet more invented bollocks by the resideent Communist worshipper

Claiming again things that are not comparable

So claims where Democrats are lazy omn antisemitism, according to Quill, makes those Democrats thus Nazi's

Yep you heard it here first by the world and wierd wonderful world of Quill

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:I dont understand the dismissive attitude some people have if others are not of the same polital stance as they are themselves.

Surely there is something lacking if a person can only identify with others who have the same mindset as they do.

We can all listen to others even if we dont agree with them.

And after you are done wasting your time, get in the fight!  The other side is waiting for you.

I dont think time is wasted by listening to others who have a different viewpoint, as long as they put it forward in a decent manner. 

Its arrogant to put others down because they dont agree with everything you say yourself.

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

And after you are done wasting your time, get in the fight!  The other side is waiting for you.

I dont think time is wasted by listening to others who have a different viewpoint, as long as they put it forward in a decent manner. 

Its arrogant to put others down because they dont agree with everything you say yourself.

I quite agree with you.  The Republicans have chosen a path that is quite the opposite of what Americans want.  Americans want healthcare, and Republicans tried to repeal the healthcare act.  Americans want no more foreign wars, and Republicans just unloaded a cargo of bombs on Syria.  Americans want an equal share of wealth, and Republicans just gave a tax cut for the wealthy and increased the defense budget, effectively raising taxes on the little guy.

Now, the Republicans can do this by utilizing the anti-democratic mechanisms in the system.  In this century, only one president has been popularly elected, all the rest being appointed by the electoral collage.  Republicans have gerrymandered almost all state representative districts, so the Congress is guaranteed to be Republicans.  Then, in order to give a RW patina to all elections, they impose voter exclusion rules and use immigration laws to manipulate the electorate to keep blacks and Hispanics from voting.

The effect of all this is to turn America into a white nationalist oligarchy.  Would you vote for that?  To vote for that is to vote for a plutocracy with a racist agenda.  The majority of Americans wouldn't vote for that in a truly popular election, either.  That’s why Democrats oppose all Republican programs.

Against that background, cooperation is appeasement in the Chamberlain sense.  Could you, as a UK citizen, have ever voted for Hitler?  Likewise, there is no possibility that Democrats can ever vote for such an anti-democratic, evil platform.  Thus, there is no possibility that America can ever be united again once the tearing apart has started.  It's a fantasy.  Quite literally, it's like asking the cops to help the robbers.

it is inevitable that eventually the 2 sides will filter their views to the point that confrontation is inevitable, this happened in Germany and China before ww2.
It will always happen, it is the consequence of having selfish people. society is split into 2 groups those that support society and those that ty and make as much as they can from it.

And today we can see the ever growing gap between the CEOs etc that rape the economy form personal gain and everyone else. it is inevitable that eventually the Nurses, Teacher and normal people that Actually Work and cause the economy to have value will revolt that they receive pittance while the Lazy bastards get million dollar bonuses or simply earn millions from vast inherited wealth.

there is a reason that revolution is required periodically, we are reaching a point where revolution is required like it was in the mid to late 1700's.

Syl wrote:I dont understand the dismissive attitude some people have if others are not of the same polital stance as they are themselves.

Surely there is something lacking if a person can only identify with others who have the same mindset as they do.

We can all listen to others even if we dont agree with them.

I am very open to hearing the opinion of others... and as seen here countless times, I often try to engage debate on some peoples differing views, and discuss the reasoning behind them...


But lefties tend to prefer echo chambers of repeats of their views... they shout down any other view with accusations of SIXHIRB etc... and run away when their opinion has been proven to be based on bullshit...

Tommy Monk wrote:

Syl wrote:I dont understand the dismissive attitude some people have if others are not of the same polital stance as they are themselves.

Surely there is something lacking if a person can only identify with others who have the same mindset as they do.

We can all listen to others even if we dont agree with them.

I am very open to hearing the opinion of others... and as seen here countless times, I often try to engage debate on some peoples differing views, and discuss the reasoning behind them...


But lefties tend to prefer echo chambers of repeats of their views... they shout down any other view with accusations of SIXHIRB etc... and run away when their opinion has been proven to be based on bullshit...

Problem with the right is that their "proof" is usually nothing of the sort.

Also, in the vein of Vic's "your mileage may vary":

I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

BY LEONARD PITTS JR.
lpitts@miamiherald.com

This is for Rose.

She is a nice lady who wrote me a nice email in which she spoke about the need to try to understand Donald Trump’s supporters. As Rose put it, “We need to not close ourselves off to how the other side thinks.” It’s a sentiment I hear a lot from progressives, and it bespeaks a great generosity of spirit.

But I couldn’t disagree more.

Don’t get me wrong. Thinking people will always try to see past their own ideological blind spots, to put themselves into the shoes of those they disagree with. That’s an admirable trait. In normal times it’s a trait I would applaud with enthusiasm.

But these are not normal times. Indeed, sometimes, I wonder if we appreciate just how abnormal — how fraught with danger — they really are. Under Trump, American laws, news media and mores are under assault, to say nothing of American democracy itself.

***

So while, it is admirable to think “understanding” can fix this country, it is also naive. Progressives should ask themselves: When’s the last time you heard any Trump supporters talking about the need to understand you? You haven’t — and that ought to tell you something.

http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/leonard-pitts-jr/article210497509.html

I am very open to hearing the opinion of others... and as seen here countless times, I often try to engage debate on some peoples differing views, and discuss the reasoning behind them...


But lefties tend to prefer echo chambers of repeats of their views... they shout down any other view with accusations of SIXHIRB etc...


And then... they run away when their opinion has been proven to be based on bullshit...



THE FACT THEY RUN AWAY INSTEAD OF IN ANY WAY BEING ABLE TO CREDIBLY DISPUTE THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED TO THEM... TELLS US ALL WE NEED TO KNOW...!!!

I think if people stopped seeing others as “labels” instead of people then there might be some better understanding of each side. This will only work with intelligent, moderate people who understand that opinions can be fluid.

Extremists from either side are stuck, rigid and will never learn from anyone else.

My opinion, for what it’s worth.

Tommy Monk wrote:

I am very open to hearing the opinion of others... and as seen here countless times, I often try to engage debate on some peoples differing views, and discuss the reasoning behind them...


But lefties tend to prefer echo chambers of repeats of their views... they shout down any other view with accusations of SIXHIRB etc...


And then... they run away when their opinion has been proven to be based on bullshit...



THE FACT THEY RUN AWAY INSTEAD OF IN ANY WAY BEING ABLE TO CREDIBLY DISPUTE THE EVIDENCE PRESENTED TO THEM... TELLS US ALL WE NEED TO KNOW...!!!

They run away because you often talk a lot of bullshit.

Hahahahaha now that was funny.

But to be fair, because I will always speak my truth, Tommy is never nasty.
Just annoying. But I kinda like him.

Do cops help the robbers?  Seriously, do they stop what they are doing and give a boost to someone who is breaking and entering?  Have you ever heard of anything like that?

Your problem is that you don't accept the premise.  You don't believe that the robbers are really robbing.  Well, likewise, I don't believe that people truly dedicated to crime have opinions that can be fluid.

What is fluid are the lies they tell to avoid prosecution.    There is no opinion about it; it's all a permanent dedication to not getting caught.  Whatever is necessary...it's dictated by avoiding what the evidence against them tells us.

Original Quill wrote:Do cops help the robbers?  Seriously, do they stop what they are doing and give a boost to someone who is breaking and entering?  Have you ever heard of anything like that?

Your problem is that you don't accept the premise.  You don't believe that the robbers are really robbing.  Well, likewise, I don't believe that people truly dedicated to crime have opinions that can be fluid.

What is fluid are the lies they tell to avoid prosecution.    There is no opinion about it; it's all a permanent dedication to not getting caught.  Whatever is necessary...it's dictated by avoiding what the evidence against them tells us.

I agree, it's like the say with Climate Science

we currently have one group that are not debating Climate Change (even if they say they are) they are Denying Science
there is No Discussion that can be had when one sides denies reality is reality.
You can't reason with people that Believe in Fairytales over logic and reason

Is there really no Father Xmas ?

eddie wrote:Hahahahaha now that was funny.

But to be fair, because I will always speak my truth, Tommy is never nasty.
Just annoying. But I kinda like him.

Except his hateful views towards homosexuals off course, claiming they are abnormal etc