Trump admits he lied about his tax bill, telling his rich friends that they 'just got a lot richer'

According to Slate:

Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon was in a celebratory mood on Friday night and told a group of his wealthy friends, “You all just got a lot richer” after he signed the tax cuts into law. Trump reportedly uttered the words to a group of friends who were having dinner nearby at Mar-a-Lago, including two friends who spoke to CBS News about the remark.

Anyone spending time at what has come to be known as the “Winter White House” is not exactly suffering economically, considering the initiation fee is $200,000 and annual dues are $14,000.

Trump’s words to his rich pals mark a stark contrast to what he has been saying for weeks now as he has insisted that the massive tax cut would benefit the middle class above all. “The rich will not be gaining at all with this plan. We are looking for the middle class and we are looking for jobs — jobs being the economy,” Trump had said in September, for example. In November, the president had gone as far as to say that the tax cuts would actually hurt the rich. “This is not good for me. Me, it’s not so — I have some very wealthy friends. Not so happy with me, but that’s OK,” Trump told a Missouri crowd. “You know, I keep hearing Schumer: ‘This is for the wealthy.’ Well, if it is, my friends don’t know about it.”

Sen. Bernie Sanders was one of the first Democrats to respond to the report, writing on Twitter that Trump is “finally telling the truth about his tax bill.”


***

But his supporters will never admit that they fell for a cringe-worthy con man. I think if I'd voted for him, I wouldn't ever admit it now.

everyone just got a lot richer

especially the middle class.

even you ben.

maybe you should just shut you gob and show some god damned gratitude to your president

smelly-bandit wrote:everyone just got a lot richer

especially the middle class.

even you ben.

maybe you should just shut you gob and show some god damned gratitude to your president

Piss off Smelly', you neo-nazi apologist thickhead scumbag fake...

How the hell does halving the tax that the top 1% of Americans pay --  while letting the bottom 80%
of the population pay the costs --  make average Americans better off..

I already knew that you know less-than-zero about both economics and politics, SmellyNoFriends,
but now you have proven it to the rest of the world  !

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:everyone just got a lot richer

especially the middle class.

even you ben.

maybe you should just shut you gob and show some god damned gratitude to your president

Piss off Smelly', you neo-nazi apologist thickhead scumbag fake...

How the hell does halving the tax that the top 1% of Americans pay --  while letting the bottom 80%
of the population pay the costs --  make average Americans better off..

I already knew that you know less-than-zero about both economics and politics, SmellyNoFriends,
but now you have proven it to the rest of the world  !

Ho ho ho

Tax cuts for all to.

Merry Christmas from the god emperor

smelly-bandit wrote:everyone just got a lot richer

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others--George Orwell

smelly-bandit wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


Piss off Smelly', you neo-nazi apologist thickhead scumbag fake...

How the hell does halving the tax that the top 1% of Americans pay --  while letting the bottom 80%
of the population pay the costs --  make average Americans better off..

I already knew that you know less-than-zero about both economics and politics, SmellyNoFriends,
but now you have proven it to the rest of the world  !

Ho ho ho

Tax cuts for all to.

Merry Christmas from the god emperor

You really are a fuckwit liar, Smelly....

How does reducing the business tax rate, while increasing indirect taxes and levies for the majority while removing many average workers deductions and rebates, equate to "tax cuts for all" ???

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

Ho ho ho

Tax cuts for all to.

Merry Christmas from the god emperor

You really are a fuckwit liar,  Smelly....

How does reducing the business tax rate, while increasing indirect taxes and levies for the majority while removing many average workers deductions and rebates, equate to "tax cuts for all" ???

im not here to help you understand how it works

ask middle America and their fat paychecks and bonuses how it works

Ben Reilly wrote:According to Slate:

Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon was in a celebratory mood on Friday night and told a group of his wealthy friends, “You all just got a lot richer” after he signed the tax cuts into law. Trump reportedly uttered the words to a group of friends who were having dinner nearby at Mar-a-Lago, including two friends who spoke to CBS News about the remark.

Anyone spending time at what has come to be known as the “Winter White House” is not exactly suffering economically, considering the initiation fee is $200,000 and annual dues are $14,000.

Trump’s words to his rich pals mark a stark contrast to what he has been saying for weeks now as he has insisted that the massive tax cut would benefit the middle class above all. “The rich will not be gaining at all with this plan. We are looking for the middle class and we are looking for jobs — jobs being the economy,” Trump had said in September, for example. In November, the president had gone as far as to say that the tax cuts would actually hurt the rich. “This is not good for me. Me, it’s not so — I have some very wealthy friends. Not so happy with me, but that’s OK,” Trump told a Missouri crowd. “You know, I keep hearing Schumer: ‘This is for the wealthy.’ Well, if it is, my friends don’t know about it.”

Sen. Bernie Sanders was one of the first Democrats to respond to the report, writing on Twitter that Trump is “finally telling the truth about his tax bill.”


***

But his supporters will never admit that they fell for a cringe-worthy con man. I think if I'd voted for him, I wouldn't ever admit it now.

And Sanders said the middle class tax cuts were good, the only problem is they were not permanent.

And that bill really wasn't Trump's bill anyway. He just signed what the Republicans put in front of him.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

Ho ho ho

Tax cuts for all to.

Merry Christmas from the god emperor

You really are a fuckwit liar,  Smelly....

How does reducing the business tax rate, while increasing indirect taxes and levies for the majority while removing many average workers deductions and rebates, equate to "tax cuts for all" ???

The majority are not having their taxes raised.

Well, the tax bill has been signed. It's middle class relief. That's a fact. Around 91 percent of middle class income Americans will be seeing savings in their next bill to the government, something that CNN’s Jake Tapper brought up with Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) this morning.

“Yeah, it is a very good thing,” Sanders said of the tax cut. “And that’s why we should’ve made the tax cuts for the middle class permanent.” Sanders went onto to say that after ten years, the middle class tax cuts would expire and the vast majority of the benefits will go to the wealthy and corporate interests.



Bernie is correct. I would never vote for the guy, but I have enough sense to know when he is correct, and I'm mature enough to admit it.

Be kind of cool if that caught on?  

Maddog wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


You really are a fuckwit liar,  Smelly....

How does reducing the business tax rate, while increasing indirect taxes and levies for the majority while removing many average workers deductions and rebates, equate to "tax cuts for all" ???

The majority are not having their taxes raised.

Actually, they are.  The Republican Congress had two constraints to meet: 1) lower the taxes for the rich; and 2) not slough it off on the deficit.  

In order not to make the deficit too high, other write-offs were eliminated.  The Tax Act does away with most of the home mortgage deduction, the SALT (state and local tax deduction) and many other write-offs.

The net/net is that the rich reap billions at the expense of the average joe.  Mr. average gets a small reduction, that only lasts for 4 - 6 years, and he loses all of the deductions.

BTW...the defense budget wasn't touched.  Lol...

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

The majority are not having their taxes raised.

Actually, they are.  The Republican Congress had two constraints to meet: 1) lower the taxes for the rich; and 2) not slough it off on the deficit.  

In order not to make the deficit too high, other write-offs were eliminated.  The Tax Act does away with most of the home mortgage deduction, the SALT (state and local tax deduction) and many other write-offs.

The net/net is that the rich reap billions at the expense of the average joe.  Mr. average gets a small reduction, that only lasts for 4 - 6 years, and he loses all of the deductions.

BTW...the defense budget wasn't touched.  Lol...

Look up and listen to Bernie Sanders. ^^^^^^^^

You are wrong again, and I seriously doubt you actually live in the US. No one can be so wrong about a country they live in.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Actually, they are.  The Republican Congress had two constraints to meet: 1) lower the taxes for the rich; and 2) not slough it off on the deficit.  

In order not to make the deficit too high, other write-offs were eliminated.  The Tax Act does away with most of the home mortgage deduction, the SALT (state and local tax deduction) and many other write-offs.

The net/net is that the rich reap billions at the expense of the average joe.  Mr. average gets a small reduction, that only lasts for 4 - 6 years, and he loses all of the deductions.

BTW...the defense budget wasn't touched.  Lol...

Look up and listen to Bernie Sanders. ^^^^^^^^

You are wrong again, and I seriously doubt you actually live in the US. No one can be so wrong about a country they live in.

Nope, I'm spot on. Who else but an American political theorist could be so right about American politics?

However, I'm beginning to wonder about you!

The point is really that Trump lied to the American people, he's enriching himself and his buddies, and this is behavior that Trump supporters only seem to tolerate in a politician when that politician is named Trump.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Look up and listen to Bernie Sanders. ^^^^^^^^

You are wrong again, and I seriously doubt you actually live in the US. No one can be so wrong about a country they live in.

Nope, I'm spot on.  Who else but an American political theorist could be so right about American politics?

However, I'm beginning to wonder about you!

OK, Bernie was wrong again. The tax cuts for the middle class were a bad idea.

Ben Reilly wrote:The point is really that Trump lied to the American people, he's enriching himself and his buddies, and this is behavior that Trump supporters only seem to tolerate in a politician when that politician is named Trump.

Trump didn't lie. Most Americans will pay less. Of course those making millions will see the biggest cuts in real dollars.

I don't know about you, but cutting my taxes 3% will not save me hundreds of thousands of dollars. It will for the folks that make much more than me.

Maddog wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:The point is really that Trump lied to the American people, he's enriching himself and his buddies, and this is behavior that Trump supporters only seem to tolerate in a politician when that politician is named Trump.

Trump didn't lie. Most Americans will pay less. Of course those making millions will see the biggest cuts in real dollars.

I don't know about you, but cutting my taxes 3% will not save me hundreds of thousands of dollars. It will for the folks that make much more than me.  

He did too lie, he said this:

“The rich will not be gaining at all with this plan. We are looking for the middle class and we are looking for jobs — jobs being the economy,” Trump had said in September, for example. In November, the president had gone as far as to say that the tax cuts would actually hurt the rich. “This is not good for me. Me, it’s not so — I have some very wealthy friends. Not so happy with me, but that’s OK,” Trump told a Missouri crowd. “You know, I keep hearing Schumer: ‘This is for the wealthy.’ Well, if it is, my friends don’t know about it.”

And then he told his rich friends they just got a whole lot richer.

That's pretty blatant.

Ben Reilly wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Trump didn't lie. Most Americans will pay less. Of course those making millions will see the biggest cuts in real dollars.

I don't know about you, but cutting my taxes 3% will not save me hundreds of thousands of dollars. It will for the folks that make much more than me.  

He did too lie, he said this:

“The rich will not be gaining at all with this plan. We are looking for the middle class and we are looking for jobs — jobs being the economy,” Trump had said in September, for example. In November, the president had gone as far as to say that the tax cuts would actually hurt the rich. “This is not good for me. Me, it’s not so — I have some very wealthy friends. Not so happy with me, but that’s OK,” Trump told a Missouri crowd. “You know, I keep hearing Schumer: ‘This is for the wealthy.’ Well, if it is, my friends don’t know about it.”

And then he told his rich friends they just got a whole lot richer.

That's pretty blatant.

This plan wasn't even around when he made these comments. Some rich will do better, other's wont (especially those in Blue states). But make no mistake, the middle class is the big winner in this deal, that and American corporations.

Come on Ben, do you think Trump had anything to do with this tax bill? It changed daily as congressmen put in changes and took them back out, trying to get enough people on board.

Your tribalism and Trump Derangement Syndrome keeps you from seeing how something can actually help the working man who is taxed too damn much.

Well, the tax bill has been signed. It's middle class relief. That's a fact. Around 91 percent of middle class income Americans will be seeing savings in their next bill to the government, something that CNN’s Jake Tapper brought up with Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) this morning.

“Yeah, it is a very good thing,” Sanders said of the tax cut. “And that’s why we should’ve made the tax cuts for the middle class permanent.” Sanders went onto to say that after ten years, the middle class tax cuts would expire and the vast majority of the benefits will go to the wealthy and corporate interests.


^^^^ According to Bernie Sanders.

Ben Reilly wrote:According to Slate:

Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon was in a celebratory mood on Friday night and told a group of his wealthy friends, “You all just got a lot richer” after he signed the tax cuts into law. Trump reportedly uttered the words to a group of friends who were having dinner nearby at Mar-a-Lago, including two friends who spoke to CBS News about the remark.

Anyone spending time at what has come to be known as the “Winter White House” is not exactly suffering economically, considering the initiation fee is $200,000 and annual dues are $14,000.

Trump’s words to his rich pals mark a stark contrast to what he has been saying for weeks now as he has insisted that the massive tax cut would benefit the middle class above all. “The rich will not be gaining at all with this plan. We are looking for the middle class and we are looking for jobs — jobs being the economy,” Trump had said in September, for example. In November, the president had gone as far as to say that the tax cuts would actually hurt the rich. “This is not good for me. Me, it’s not so — I have some very wealthy friends. Not so happy with me, but that’s OK,” Trump told a Missouri crowd. “You know, I keep hearing Schumer: ‘This is for the wealthy.’ Well, if it is, my friends don’t know about it.”

Sen. Bernie Sanders was one of the first Democrats to respond to the report, writing on Twitter that Trump is “finally telling the truth about his tax bill.”


***

But his supporters will never admit that they fell for a cringe-worthy con man. I think if I'd voted for him, I wouldn't ever admit it now.

The only reason the truth ever comes out of the mouth of that nasty little wank-stain is because even a dead clock is right twice a day.

Maddog wrote:Well, the tax bill has been signed. It's middle class relief. That's a fact. Around 91 percent of middle class income Americans will be seeing savings in their next bill to the government, something that CNN’s Jake Tapper brought up with Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) this morning.

“Yeah, it is a very good thing,” Sanders said of the tax cut. “And that’s why we should’ve made the tax cuts for the middle class permanent.” Sanders went onto to say that after ten years, the middle class tax cuts would expire and the vast majority of the benefits will go to the wealthy and corporate interests.


^^^^ According to Bernie Sanders.

Yeah, but that's besides the point. In selling this bill, Trump said it wasn't popular with the rich, then goes off to celebrate the windfall with his fellow rich bitches.

If I were to change something around here and tell you all that it was to help you all but not the admins, then go to the admins and tell them I just helped them quite a bit, that would make me a liar.

I know we've been conditioned not to expect anything resembling honesty or integrity out of this particular politician. But we should expect it. And no other politician gets away with that kind of behavior without being pulled up for it.

Hell, Obama was criticized for claiming that if you liked your health insurance, you could keep it, merely because he assumed that nobody would like the crappy insurance than Obamacare banned.

Around 91 percent of middle class income Americans will be seeing savings in their next bill to the government.


This is the truth, but because there are people who can't stand Trump, they will be unhappy seeing the middle class get needed tax relief. It's called cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Ben Reilly wrote:

Maddog wrote:Well, the tax bill has been signed. It's middle class relief. That's a fact. Around 91 percent of middle class income Americans will be seeing savings in their next bill to the government, something that CNN’s Jake Tapper brought up with Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) this morning.

“Yeah, it is a very good thing,” Sanders said of the tax cut. “And that’s why we should’ve made the tax cuts for the middle class permanent.” Sanders went onto to say that after ten years, the middle class tax cuts would expire and the vast majority of the benefits will go to the wealthy and corporate interests.


^^^^ According to Bernie Sanders.

Yeah, but that's besides the point. In selling this bill, Trump said it wasn't popular with the rich, then goes off to celebrate the windfall with his fellow rich bitches.

If I were to change something around here and tell you all that it was to help you all but not the admins, then go to the admins and tell them I just helped them quite a bit, that would make me a liar.

I know we've been conditioned not to expect anything resembling honesty or integrity out of this particular politician. But we should expect it. And no other politician gets away with that kind of behavior without being pulled up for it.

Hell, Obama was criticized for claiming that if you liked your health insurance, you could keep it, merely because he assumed that nobody would like the crappy insurance than Obamacare banned.

OK, Trump is full of shit. There is no doubt. I doubt he still knows what the hell is in that bill. But the bill does help the middle class, and there's a good chance that fool doesn't even know that either. This bill is not just for the upper class.

Maddog wrote:Around 91 percent of middle class income Americans will be seeing savings in their next bill to the government.


This is the truth, but because there are people who can't stand Trump, they will be unhappy seeing the middle class get needed tax relief. It's called cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Well, I'm also not thrilled about the fact that he and his GOP passed this with only about 30 percent approval from the American people who they are supposed to be working for.

But you can't dance around the fact that Trump claimed on more than one occasion that this bill wasn't to help the rich, then told the rich it WAS to help them.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Look up and listen to Bernie Sanders. ^^^^^^^^

You are wrong again, and I seriously doubt you actually live in the US. No one can be so wrong about a country they live in.

Nope, I'm spot on.  Who else but an American political theorist could be so right about American politics?

However, I'm beginning to wonder about you!

Well you were right about Clinton winning the election so I suppose you know your stuff

smelly-bandit wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Look up and listen to Bernie Sanders. ^^^^^^^^

You are wrong again, and I seriously doubt you actually live in the US. No one can be so wrong about a country they live in.

Nope, I'm spot on.  Who else but an American political theorist could be so right about American politics?

However, I'm beginning to wonder about you!

Well you were right about Clinton winning the election so I suppose you know your stuff

If, say, you'd won Brexit by that margin and it didn't happen, I bet you'd be rather pissed off, too.

smelly-bandit wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Nope, I'm spot on.  Who else but an American political theorist could be so right about American politics?

However, I'm beginning to wonder about you!

Well you were right about Clinton winning the election so I suppose you know your stuff

Thank you.

Ben Reilly wrote:

Maddog wrote:Around 91 percent of middle class income Americans will be seeing savings in their next bill to the government.


This is the truth, but because there are people who can't stand Trump, they will be unhappy seeing the middle class get needed tax relief. It's called cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Well, I'm also not thrilled about the fact that he and his GOP passed this with only about 30 percent approval from the American people who they are supposed to be working for.

But you can't dance around the fact that Trump claimed on more than one occasion that this bill wasn't to help the rich, then told the rich it WAS to help them.

It helps some of the rich, and it hurts others. It also helps 91% of the middle class and American corporations which are not the enemy of the American people.

Trump dances around everything because he doesn't really know what the hell he is doing. As long as he doesn't bomb N. Korea, and signs legislation that lowers taxes and promotes freedom, he will be better than what his democratic opponent would have ever been. Not that there would have been a huge difference in what we are seeing now, as she would never have been able to work with this Congress.

Ben Reilly wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

Well you were right about Clinton winning the election so I suppose you know your stuff

If, say, you'd won Brexit by that margin and it didn't happen, I bet you'd be rather pissed off, too.

Clinton didn't win the election. She won the popular vote.

While you're here Ben, maybe you can tell Quill what the National Debt was when Obama took office and when he left? You're pretty good with those graphs and Quill only believes the ones you post, not mine.

Maddog wrote:Clinton didn't win the election. She won the popular vote.

Duh... You are engaging in a semantic debate. You are pointing out that the USA is not a democracy.

The fact is that in this entire century only one person has won a numerical selection. The rest were selected by a group of old, white men.

However, Clinton won the count.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Actually, they are.  The Republican Congress had two constraints to meet: 1) lower the taxes for the rich; and 2) not slough it off on the deficit.  

In order not to make the deficit too high, other write-offs were eliminated.  The Tax Act does away with most of the home mortgage deduction, the SALT (state and local tax deduction) and many other write-offs.

The net/net is that the rich reap billions at the expense of the average joe.  Mr. average gets a small reduction, that only lasts for 4 - 6 years, and he loses all of the deductions.

BTW...the defense budget wasn't touched.  Lol...

Look up and listen to Bernie Sanders. ^^^^^^^^

You are wrong again, and I seriously doubt you actually live in the US. No one can be so wrong about a country they live in.

You're the one in tne wrong here, Maddog...

You only have that little "middle income" tax cut for a couple of years..

Then the gov't has to start increasing their overall tax revenue all over again, to keep on repaying the ever-increasing national debt (Trump has already added a couple $$trillion$$ to America's national debt, in less than a year..).

If the gov't didn't raise the overall tax revenue take from average American workers over the next two or three years, then the cuts that they are giving to big business will certainly depress the US economy -- as not only will the debt shoot up, so will the interest rates on the loans to service those debts.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Look up and listen to Bernie Sanders. ^^^^^^^^

You are wrong again, and I seriously doubt you actually live in the US. No one can be so wrong about a country they live in.

You're the one in  tne wrong here, Maddog...

You only have that little "middle income" tax cut for a couple of years..

Then the gov't has to start increasing their overall tax revenue all over again,  to keep on repaying the ever-increasing national debt (Trump has already added a couple $$trillion$$ to America's national debt, in less than a year..).

If the gov't didn't raise the overall tax revenue take from average American workers over the next two or three years, then the cuts that they are giving to big business will certainly depress the US economy --  as not only will the debt shoot up, so will the interest rates on the loans to service those debts.

Well summarized.

smelly-bandit wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


You really are a fuckwit liar,  Smelly....

How does reducing the business tax rate, while increasing indirect taxes and levies for the majority while removing many average workers deductions and rebates, equate to "tax cuts for all" ???

im not here to help you understand how it works

ask middle America and their fat paychecks and bonuses how it works

You have no hope of explaining anything to anyone, SmellyDumbFuck...

Not when you clearly know nothing about simple economics, accounting or basic bookkeeping..

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Look up and listen to Bernie Sanders. ^^^^^^^^

You are wrong again, and I seriously doubt you actually live in the US. No one can be so wrong about a country they live in.

You're the one in  tne wrong here, Maddog...

You only have that little "middle income" tax cut for a couple of years..

Then the gov't has to start increasing their overall tax revenue all over again,  to keep on repaying the ever-increasing national debt (Trump has already added a couple $$trillion$$ to America's national debt, in less than a year..).

If the gov't didn't raise the overall tax revenue take from average American workers over the next two or three years, then the cuts that they are giving to big business will certainly depress the US economy --  as not only will the debt shoot up, so will the interest rates on the loans to service those debts.

Sounds like a perfect time to cut spending.

Maddog wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:


You're the one in  tne wrong here, Maddog...

You only have that little "middle income" tax cut for a couple of years..

Then the gov't has to start increasing their overall tax revenue all over again,  to keep on repaying the ever-increasing national debt (Trump has already added a couple $$trillion$$ to America's national debt, in less than a year..).

If the gov't didn't raise the overall tax revenue take from average American workers over the next two or three years, then the cuts that they are giving to big business will certainly depress the US economy --  as not only will the debt shoot up, so will the interest rates on the loans to service those debts.

Sounds like a perfect time to cut spending.  

Starting with the biggest waste of all, the defense department.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Sounds like a perfect time to cut spending.  

Starting with the biggest waste of all, the defense department.

I don't care where we start, as long as we start somewhere. There is so much waste in our government that we could cut billions and be just fine.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Starting with the biggest waste of all, the defense department.

I don't care where we start, as long as we start somewhere.  There is so much waste in our government that we could cut billions and be just fine.  

That's why I say start with defense. Almost 70% of our budget goes into defense programs...so much that we have to invent wars to spend it all on.

Take a quarter of it and fully fund a national health program. Then start in on the environment.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Sounds like a perfect time to cut spending.  

Starting with the biggest waste of all, the defense department.

I don't care where we start, as long as we start somewhere.  There is so much waste in our government that we could cut billions and be just fine.  

This is why more people don't become libertarians -- because to a libertarian, cutting programs to feed hungry kids vs. cutting weapons of mass murder is six in one hand, half a dozen in the other.

Ben Reilly wrote:

Maddog wrote:

I don't care where we start, as long as we start somewhere.  There is so much waste in our government that we could cut billions and be just fine.  

This is why more people don't become libertarians -- because to a libertarian, cutting programs to feed hungry kids vs. cutting weapons of mass murder is six in one hand, half a dozen in the other.

There is incredible amounts of waste in both activities. The difference is, private charity does a better job at feeding kids than the government. The government does a better job at waging war. That's why the constitution clearly states which one is the role of the government.

And the reason more people aren't libertarians is fear. The government has them scared of life without a nanny.

Maddog wrote:And the reason more people aren't libertarians is fear.  The government has them scared of life without a nanny.  

No, the reason why more people aren't libertarians is it's worse in the wild than it is within civil government.

Ben Reilly wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

Well you were right about Clinton winning the election so I suppose you know your stuff

If, say, you'd won Brexit by that margin and it didn't happen, I bet you'd be rather pissed off, too.

Boo hoo

Dry you're little eyes you big girls blouse.

Trump, is president of America get over yourself

smelly-bandit wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:



If, say, you'd won Brexit by that margin and it didn't happen, I bet you'd be rather pissed off, too.

Boo hoo

Dry you're little eyes you big girls blouse.

Trump, is  president of America get over yourself

I'll bet he winds up in prison. They can't find all of the things they have found, and not prosecute...like Nixon. It would be a tacit admission that we are not a nation of laws, but of privilege.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:And the reason more people aren't libertarians is fear.  The government has them scared of life without a nanny.  

No, the reason why more people aren't libertarians is it's worse in the wild than it is within civil government.

Only if you fear your fellow man more then the men in our government.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:And the reason more people aren't libertarians is fear.  The government has them scared of life without a nanny.  

No, the reason why more people aren't libertarians is it's worse in the wild than it is within civil government.

Only if you fear your fellow man more then the men in our government.

The men and women in our government are also our fellow man, are they not? Why do libertarians act as though the government is run by robots or something?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

No, the reason why more people aren't libertarians is it's worse in the wild than it is within civil government.

Only if you fear your fellow man more then the men in our government.

I do. The excesses of "fellow man" are the reason why government is necessary in the first place.

In fact, all conditions of 'freedom' are inherently unstable. A free market economy will inevitably deteriorate into monopoly. A free civic condition (anarchy) will inevitably deteriorate into autocracy. In each case, competitors will knock each other off, until there is only one left. A situation of unchecked power brings out the worst in humans.

Libertarianism is the worst because it is unprincipled despotism. A lasting freedom is fiction. We need government to direct traffic.

Original Quill wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:

Boo hoo

Dry you're little eyes you big girls blouse.

Trump, is  president of America get over yourself

I'll bet he winds up in prison.  They can't find all of the things they have found, and not prosecute...like Nixon.  It would be a tacit admission that we are not a nation of laws, but of privilege.

you bet he winds up in prison??

what happened to "we are on the cusp of impeaching him"

you've been ranting for months about how he is guilty of something or other and meuller is literally on his way to the white house with a swat team. all i can assume is meuller is crawling on his hands on knees to the white house from the opposite side of the planet to make his arrest