If god is all powerful why does he allow sin?

by Guest Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:13 pm

First topic message reminder :

Apparently homosexuality is a sin - if you put a certain spin on the bible texts.

Yet it is claimed god is all powerful.

If he is all powerful why did he create homosexuality?

If he is all powerful why does he refuse to help those who believe that interpretation of the bible when they beg him to help them change?

Surely the evidence is that if god does exist he is one sadistic bugger.

by Guest Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:59 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

Seriously you have lost the bloody plot!

You send flood victims food and shelter! What use is a bible when they are starving and in need of a house!

Jesus wept!

If I was a flood victim and some group sent me a book -- ANY book -- I would not think kindly of them. :D

Even a book written by bear grills on how to survive in a post flood environment

Fucking ingrate

by Guest Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:03 am

Sassy wrote:If god existed he would have made sure Smelly's mum never had sex with Smelly's dad and done us all a favour.

I was born in a test tube so you can thank science for that

by Guest Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:04 am

You mean Bear Grylls, the man who stayed in hotels while supposedly lost in the wild.

by Guest Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:06 am

smelly_bandit wrote:
Sassy wrote:If god existed he would have made sure Smelly's mum never had sex with Smelly's dad and done us all a favour.

I was born in a test tube so you can thank science for that

No Smelly, a test tube would have had the sense to reject you and any woman who knew you were going to be implanted in her womb would have ::rfth:: ::rfth::

by Ben Reilly Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:12 am

Yeah, you're hungry and without shelter -- better get to reading!

by Guest Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:01 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:Yeah, you're hungry and without shelter -- better get to reading!

you could use the pages to make a fire

by Guest Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:03 am

Sassy wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

I was born in a test tube so you can thank science for that

No Smelly, a test tube would have had the sense to reject you and any woman who knew you were going to be implanted in her womb would have ::rfth:: ::rfth::

keep going sassy

im restraining myself, but not for much longer

by veya_victaous Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:43 am

smelly_bandit wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Yeah, you're hungry and without shelter -- better get to reading!

you could use the pages to make a fire

://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/:

LOLOL
That is the best response Smelly, I will take your book Laughing

by SEXY MAMA Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:35 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

Seriously you have lost the bloody plot!

You send flood victims food and shelter! What use is a bible when they are starving and in need of a house!

Jesus wept!

If you were a flood victim and you already had food and shelter provided by another agency would you get pissed off that a local uk mosque had sent you a qur'an to replace your lost one??

Ah i see what you mean. If the flood victims were housed and fed then yes thats fine to give them their holy book.

by Guest Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:12 pm

i am much more a believer in practical Christianity, sure you can pray for them, leave them a bible even but if they need food, feed them, if they need shelter give them shelter its just common sense.

by Guest Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:20 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

If you were a flood victim and you already had food and shelter provided by another agency would you get pissed off that a local uk mosque had sent you a qur'an to replace your lost one??

Ah i see what you mean. If the flood victims were housed and fed then yes thats fine to give them their holy book.

and if not??

by SEXY MAMA Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:55 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

Ah i see what you mean. If the flood victims were housed and fed then yes thats fine to give them their holy book.

and if not??

Then its an immoral thing to do.

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:38 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

and if not??

Then its an immoral thing to do.

agreed

sending a qur'an to anyone is the most immoral thing that can be done

by SEXY MAMA Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:52 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

Then its an immoral thing to do.

agreed

sending a qur'an to anyone is the most immoral thing that can be done

You are stupid. We were discussing the Bible and it just shows how much ISLAM is on your brain. Sure you aren't a Muslim? ::=|Q::

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:54 pm

Blonde?

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:03 pm

sphinx wrote:Apparently homosexuality is a sin - if you put a certain spin on the bible texts.

Yet it is claimed god is all powerful.

If he is all powerful why did he create homosexuality?

If he is all powerful why does he refuse to help those who believe that interpretation of the bible when they beg him to help them change?

Surely the evidence is that if god does exist he is one sadistic bugger.

so is stealing, lying, adultery .sin is sin to God no matter what form

by SEXY MAMA Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:05 pm

She just couldn't stay away! VOD is found guys.

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:12 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

unfortunately one of the last commands Jesus gave was to go and preach the good news to all the earth, so that's not going to happen..

No the bible tells you quite clearly your good deeds are as filthy rags, so what you think are good really is not.

Apparently so. I think it's a horrible injustice to allow a mass murderer into heaven because he can "believe" in something for which there's no proof, while tormenting someone for eternity just because they never had the opportunity to read the Bible.

and then there is the fact that unbelievers want God to be a fair God and not judge others by their sins, if God chose who would get into heaven on the level of their sin it would be unfair , so to God no sin is different no matter what it is. God forgives all sins and that is his promise so he cant break his promise can he because that makes him a liar and God cant lie .

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:39 pm

smelly_bandit wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Yeah, you're hungry and without shelter -- better get to reading!

you could use the pages to make a fire

or read about salvation nobody knows when death will come so better to know before one dies .

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:41 pm

Maine coon lover wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

you could use the pages to make a fire

or read about salvation nobody knows when death will come so better to know before one dies .

very well said..

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:50 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:

agreed

sending a qur'an to anyone is the most immoral thing that can be done

You are stupid. We were discussing the Bible and it just shows how much ISLAM is on your brain. Sure you aren't a Muslim? ::=|Q::

by the definition of Muslim, everyone who believes in a single god is a Muslim

you are just the Islamic version of a Muslim

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:54 pm

Maine coon lover wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

Apparently so. I think it's a horrible injustice to allow a mass murderer into heaven because he can "believe" in something for which there's no proof, while tormenting someone for eternity just because they never had the opportunity to read the Bible.

and then there is the fact that unbelievers want God to be a fair God and not judge others by their sins, if God chose who would get into heaven on the level of their sin it would be unfair , so to God no sin is different no matter what it is. God forgives all sins and that is his promise so he cant break his promise can he because that makes him a liar and God cant lie .

Ahh the wonderful born again get out of jail free card concept.
Where by anyone who sins that does not believe in Jesus are condemned, basically anyone that has ever lived and still lives not knowing Jesus is cream crackered, even though God has created everyone according to the scriptures, knows exactly what they are going to do and thus has condemn millions upon millions before they are even born, as God is meant to be infallible, thus everything is premeditated by this deity.

Quite sick to decide which people will come to know his way and others that do not
.

Anyway what about eternal sins?

Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven all their sins and all the blasphemies they utter. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they [the Pharisees] were saying, ‘He has an evil spirit’."

Matthew 12:30-32: "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, people will be forgiven every sin and blasphemy. But the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

Luke 12:8-10: "I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."

So not all sins are forgiven in Christian theology, born again Christians just like to make things up as they go along to allow themselves to sin, quite amusing really!

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:06 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Maine coon lover wrote:

and then there is the fact that unbelievers want God to be a fair God and not judge others by their sins, if God chose who would get into heaven on the level of their sin it would be unfair , so to God no sin is different no matter what it is. God forgives all sins and that is his promise so he cant break his promise can he because that makes him a liar and God cant lie .

Ahh the wonderful born again get out of jail free card concept.
Where by anyone who sins that does not believe in Jesus are condemned, basically anyone that has ever lived and still lives not knowing Jesus is cream crackered, even though God has created everyone according to the scriptures, knows exactly what they are going to do and thus has condemn millions upon millions before they are even born, as God is meant to be infallible, thus everything is premeditated by this deity.

Quite sick to decide which people will come to know his way and others that do not
.

Anyway what about eternal sins?

Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven all their sins and all the blasphemies they utter. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they [the Pharisees] were saying, ‘He has an evil spirit’."

Matthew 12:30-32: "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, people will be forgiven every sin and blasphemy. But the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

Luke 12:8-10: "I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."

So not all sins are forgiven in Christian theology, born again Christians just like to make things up as they go along to allow themselves to sin, quite amusing really!

Didgey:

The passages you've highlighted certainly indicate instances where the Bible contradicts itself on the topic of forgiveness. If Jesus really did exist, I wonder if these particular quotes have been falsified, as they simply don't accord with the concept of unconditional forgiveness he preaches elsewhere.

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:22 pm

lovedust wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Ahh the wonderful born again get out of jail free card concept.
Where by anyone who sins that does not believe in Jesus are condemned, basically anyone that has ever lived and still lives not knowing Jesus is cream crackered, even though God has created everyone according to the scriptures, knows exactly what they are going to do and thus has condemn millions upon millions before they are even born, as God is meant to be infallible, thus everything is premeditated by this deity.

Quite sick to decide which people will come to know his way and others that do not
.

Anyway what about eternal sins?

Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven all their sins and all the blasphemies they utter. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they [the Pharisees] were saying, ‘He has an evil spirit’."

Matthew 12:30-32: "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, people will be forgiven every sin and blasphemy. But the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

Luke 12:8-10: "I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."

So not all sins are forgiven in Christian theology, born again Christians just like to make things up as they go along to allow themselves to sin, quite amusing really!

Didgey:

The passages you've highlighted certainly indicate instances where the Bible contradicts itself on the topic of forgiveness. If Jesus really did exist, I wonder if these particular quotes have been falsified, as they simply don't accord with the concept of unconditional forgiveness he preaches elsewhere.

Hi Lovedust

I have no doubt Jesus existed as a human, there is clearly corroborated evidence of many of his sayings.
The problem is though the bible was collated much later after he lived, as we know of plenty of other Gospels an works relating to his life, whether any are true is another matter, though most scholars agree on the things said as to being evidence of an individual that certainly said them.
That is the problem though with any religion, you are reliant on what people after have decided or even in some cases invented claiming to be the word of God.

Take the Gospel of Mark for example, how many here have read verses after Mark 16:6-8?

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:30 pm

It's an account of the resurrection, right? Presumably contradicted by other Bible books...

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:37 pm

lovedust wrote:It's an account of the resurrection, right? Presumably contradicted by other Bible books...

Not contradicted, invented, The ending found in the King James Bible and others is not found in our earliest and most reliable Greek copies of Mark.
You also have issue over words translated like Virgin, when it should just read young woman, as this clearly was mistranslated, even more so when the virgin birth is not mentioned in the Pauline epistles, Mark and John. Let alone again the countless other works. Again what we see as the New Testament was not decided upon until 325 AD, 3 centuries after he was meant to have lived .

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:24 pm

Prophecies to Identify the Messiah, Which Jesus Does Not Fulfill:

1) Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus (the messiah) would be called Immanuel, which means "God with us." Yet no one, not even his parents, call him Immanuel at any point in the bible.

2) The Messiah must be a physical descendant of David (Romans 1:3 & Acts 2:30). Yet, how could Jesus meet this requirement since his genealogies in Matthew 1 and Luke 3 show he descended from David through Joseph, who was not his natural father because of the Virgin Birth. Hence, this prophecy could not have been fulfilled.

3) Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Yet there is no mention of this prophecy being fulfilled in the New Testament with the coming of Jesus, hence this is another Messiah prophecy not fulfilled.

Prophecies Christians Use to Verify Jesus as the Messiah, Yet Clearly Fail:

4) The gospels (especially Matthew 21:4 and John 12:14-15) claim that Jesus fulfills the prophecy of Zechariah 9:9. But the next few verses (Zechariah 9:10-13) show that the person referred to in this verse is a military king that would rule "from sea to sea". Since Jesus had neither an army nor a kingdom, he could not have fulfilled this prophecy.

5) Matthew (Matthew 2:17-18) quotes Jeremiah (Jeremiah 31:15), claiming that it was a prophecy of King Herod’s alleged slaughter of the children in and around Bethlehem after the birth of Jesus. But this passage refers to the Babylonian captivity, as is clear by reading the next two verses (Jeremiah 31:16-17), and, thus, has nothing to do with Herod’s massacre.

6) John 19:33 says that during Jesus’ crucifixion, the soldiers didn’t break his legs because he was already dead. Verse John 19:36 claims that this fulfilled a prophecy: "Not a bone of him shall be broken." But there is no such prophecy. It is sometimes said that the prophecy appears in Exodus 12:46, Numbers 9:12 & Psalm 34:20. This is not correct. Exodus 12:46 & Numbers 9:12 are not prophecies, they are commandments. The Israelites are told not to break the bones of the Passover lamb, and this is all it is about. And Psalm 34:20 seems to refer to righteous people in general (see verse Psalm 34:19, where a plural is used), not to make a prophecy about a specific person.

7) "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." Hosea 11:1. Matthew (Matthew 2:15) claims that the flight of Jesus’ family to Egypt is a fulfillment of this verse. But Hosea 11:1 is not a prophecy at all. It is a reference to the Hebrew exodus from Egypt and has nothing to do with Jesus. Matthew tries to hide this fact by quoting only the last part of the verse ("Out of Egypt I have called my son").

Cool

"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." Micah 5:2 The gospel of Matthew (Matthew 2:5-6) claims that Jesus’ birth in Bethlehem fulfils this prophecy. But this is unlikely for two reasons.

A) "Bethlehem Ephratah" in Micah 5:2 refers not to a town, but to a clan: the clan of Bethlehem, who was the son of Caleb’s second wife, Ephrathah (1 Chronicles 2:18, 2:50-52 & 4:4).

B) The prophecy (if that is what it is) does not refer to the Messiah, but rather to a military leader, as can be seen from Micah 5:6. This leader is supposed to defeat the Assyrians, which, of course, Jesus never did. It should also be noted that Matthew altered the text of Micah 5:2 by saying: "And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Judah" rather than "Bethlehem Ephratah" as is said in Micah 5:2. He did this, intentionally no doubt, to make this verse appear to refer to the town of Bethlehem rather than the family clan.

son of god my arse

by veya_victaous Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:03 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
lovedust wrote:

Didgey:

The passages you've highlighted certainly indicate instances where the Bible contradicts itself on the topic of forgiveness. If Jesus really did exist, I wonder if these particular quotes have been falsified, as they simply don't accord with the concept of unconditional forgiveness he preaches elsewhere.

Hi Lovedust

I have no doubt Jesus existed as a human, there is clearly corroborated evidence of many of his sayings.
The problem is though the bible was collated much later after he lived, as we know of plenty of other Gospels an works relating to his life, whether any are true is another matter, though most scholars agree on the things said as to being evidence of an individual that certainly said them.
That is the problem though with any religion, you are reliant on what people after have decided or even in some cases invented claiming to be the word of God.

Take the Gospel of Mark for example, how many here have read verses after Mark 16:6-8?

Actually Jesus Almost certainly did not exists, Unlike Moses that almost certainly did exist.

There were several Messiahs at the time, one called Joshua is the most like inspiration for Jesus.

How do we know? Jesus is not recorded as a name in any Jewish records. it is does not even uses syllables from Aramaic. The word 'Jesus' doesn't appear until the Messiah story moves into Greece and the Greek poets start talking about a guy called Jesus.

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:05 pm

I heard that God was into early Techno music ?..is this true?

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:08 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Hi Lovedust

I have no doubt Jesus existed as a human, there is clearly corroborated evidence of many of his sayings.
The problem is though the bible was collated much later after he lived, as we know of plenty of other Gospels an works relating to his life, whether any are true is another matter, though most scholars agree on the things said as to being evidence of an individual that certainly said them.
That is the problem though with any religion, you are reliant on what people after have decided or even in some cases invented claiming to be the word of God.

Take the Gospel of Mark for example, how many here have read verses after Mark 16:6-8?

Actually Jesus Almost certainly did not exists, Unlike Moses that almost certainly did exist.

There were several Messiahs at the time, one called Joshua is the most like inspiration for Jesus.

How do we know? Jesus is not recorded as a name in any Jewish records. it is does not even uses syllables from Aramaic. The word 'Jesus' doesn't appear until the Messiah story moves into Greece and the Greek poets start talking about a guy called Jesus.

That is incorrect, he name is actually Yeshua, which was actually a form of Joshua, a very common name, plus other records do speak of a person, even Josephus names his brother James, as well as even mentioning Jesus himself, even though that verse has been edited later.
There is little doubt he existed and most scholars agree on this due to the fact the verses of his sayings remain consistent. It matters little as he was just a man, but to say he did not exist is really lacking in any validity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua_(name)

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:19 pm

not many seriously doubt that Jesus existed, so the only doubt that could remain is who was he..

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:39 pm

heavenly father wrote:not many seriously doubt that Jesus existed, so the only doubt that could remain is who was he..

No doubt on that either, he was a man!

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:44 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:not many seriously doubt that Jesus existed, so the only doubt that could remain is who was he..

No doubt on that either, he was a man!

if he was a man he made a decision to have the most terrible and painful death possible just for a laugh..

that makes no sense.

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:47 pm

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

No doubt on that either, he was a man!

if he was a man he made a decision to have the most terrible and painful death possible just for a laugh..

that makes no sense.

Others have done the same in conviction of their faith, he was a Jew after all following the Jewish faith, he just expanded this to allow more into being able to believe in the same deity.

Many have sacrificed their lives throughout history, from the countless men on the battlefield to enable freedom for their people, is that no less noble?

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:50 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

if he was a man he made a decision to have the most terrible and painful death possible just for a laugh..

that makes no sense.

Others have done the same in conviction of their faith, he was a Jew after all following the Jewish faith, he just expanded this to allow more into being able to believe in the same deity.

Many have sacrificed their lives throughout history, from the countless men on the battlefield to enable freedom for their people, is that no less noble?

On a battlefield is one thing but to undergo Crucifixion is quite another, it would be the work of a mad man to claim what jesus did and know it was a lie, he was a jew but he spoke against the Jews and their ways, he claimed equality with God.

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:53 pm

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Others have done the same in conviction of their faith, he was a Jew after all following the Jewish faith, he just expanded this to allow more into being able to believe in the same deity.

Many have sacrificed their lives throughout history, from the countless men on the battlefield to enable freedom for their people, is that no less noble?

On a battlefield is one thing but to undergo Crucifixion is quite another, it would be the work of a mad man to claim what jesus did and know it was a lie, he was a jew but he spoke against the Jews and their ways, he claimed equality with God.

No he was a Jew and followed the scripture, he never came to change the law of the scripture did he, that remains unchanged, hence why you also have the old testament be a fundamental part of Christianity.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Sorry to go into battle knowing this could be your last and as many have done sacrifice themselves is as noble, there is no denying this, to say otherwise also neglects the message of Jesus on sacrifice, something you I guess do not understand

by Guest Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:56 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

On a battlefield is one thing but to undergo Crucifixion is quite another, it would be the work of a mad man to claim what jesus did and know it was a lie, he was a jew but he spoke against the Jews and their ways, he claimed equality with God.

No he was a Jew and followed the scripture, he never came to change the law of the scripture did he, that remains unchanged, hence why you also have the old testament be a fundamental part of Christianity.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Sorry to go into battle knowing this could be your last and as many have done sacrifice themselves is as noble, there is no denying this, to say otherwise also neglects the message of Jesus on sacrifice, something you I guess do not understand

he came to fulfill the law, the law no longer stands to anyone who believes on Jesus, so yes it has changed, that very change made him very unpopular with the jews, the same as when he healed a man on the sabbath, clearly he was not keeping jewish ways, why do you think the jews wanted to kill him..

the sacrifice Jesus made was because he wanted to, a big difference was he knew what was coming, in a battle you would always hope you may survive , Jesus knew his fate.

by Guest Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:00 am

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

No he was a Jew and followed the scripture, he never came to change the law of the scripture did he, that remains unchanged, hence why you also have the old testament be a fundamental part of Christianity.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Sorry to go into battle knowing this could be your last and as many have done sacrifice themselves is as noble, there is no denying this, to say otherwise also neglects the message of Jesus on sacrifice, something you I guess do not understand

he came to fulfill the law, the law no longer stands to anyone who believes on Jesus, so yes it has changed, that very change made him very unpopular with the jews, the same as when he healed a man on the sabbath, clearly he was not keeping jewish ways, why do you think the jews wanted to kill him..

the sacrifice Jesus made was because he wanted to, a big difference was he knew what was coming, in a battle you would always hope you may survive , Jesus knew his fate.

Incorrect, all he did was allow more groups into the faith, where before others had restricted, he did not come to change any of the laws, those laws still remain to this day within Christianity from the Jews. As it was actually Paul that changed many views himself, being as that is what most Christians follow today, his views on Jesus. Paul actually being as important if not more so for creating the Christianity you follow today.

In a battle you also know you can end up dead, in some cases some even know they are going to die by the action they take to help save others, that is sacrifice and again just as noble!

by Guest Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:02 am

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

No he was a Jew and followed the scripture, he never came to change the law of the scripture did he, that remains unchanged, hence why you also have the old testament be a fundamental part of Christianity.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Sorry to go into battle knowing this could be your last and as many have done sacrifice themselves is as noble, there is no denying this, to say otherwise also neglects the message of Jesus on sacrifice, something you I guess do not understand

he came to fulfill the law, the law no longer stands to anyone who believes on Jesus, so yes it has changed, that very change made him very unpopular with the jews, the same as when he healed a man on the sabbath, clearly he was not keeping jewish ways, why do you think the jews wanted to kill him..

the sacrifice Jesus made was because he wanted to, a big difference was he knew what was coming, in a battle you would always hope you may survive , Jesus knew his fate.

More Compleat bollux from you as i said ignore everything even jesus if it doesn`t fit your craap

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19

by Guest Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:04 am

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

he came to fulfill the law, the law no longer stands to anyone who believes on Jesus, so yes it has changed, that very change made him very unpopular with the jews, the same as when he healed a man on the sabbath, clearly he was not keeping jewish ways, why do you think the jews wanted to kill him..

the sacrifice Jesus made was because he wanted to, a big difference was he knew what was coming, in a battle you would always hope you may survive , Jesus knew his fate.

Incorrect, all he did was allow more groups into the faith, where before others had restricted, he did not come to change any of the laws, those laws still remain to this day within Christianity from the Jews. As it was actually Paul that changed many views himself, being as that is what most Christians follow today, his views on Jesus. Paul actually being as important if not more so for creating the Christianity you follow today.

In a battle you also know you can end up dead, in some cases some even know they are going to die by the action they take to help save others, that is sacrifice and again just as noble!

the law of the ten commandments no longer have any power over those who believe on Jesus, this was the whole idea of why Jesus came, if Jesus changed no laws and just lived as a jew, why did he come, why did the jews kill him.

you know you can yet many survived even the slaughter of the world wars, so you can survive, Jesus knew his fate was the worse kind of death and humiliation, why would anyone chose that way...no sane person would.

by Guest Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:06 am

Korben Dallas wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

he came to fulfill the law, the law no longer stands to anyone who believes on Jesus, so yes it has changed, that very change made him very unpopular with the jews, the same as when he healed a man on the sabbath, clearly he was not keeping jewish ways, why do you think the jews wanted to kill him..

the sacrifice Jesus made was because he wanted to, a big difference was he knew what was coming, in a battle you would always hope you may survive , Jesus knew his fate.
More Compleat bollux from you as i said ignore everything even jesus if it doesn`t fit your craap

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19

you are right the law will never pass away as it will be used to judge those who do not believe on Jesus, well done for pointing that out... :D

by Guest Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:06 am

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Incorrect, all he did was allow more groups into the faith, where before others had restricted, he did not come to change any of the laws, those laws still remain to this day within Christianity from the Jews. As it was actually Paul that changed many views himself, being as that is what most Christians follow today, his views on Jesus. Paul actually being as important if not more so for creating the Christianity you follow today.

In a battle you also know you can end up dead, in some cases some even know they are going to die by the action they take to help save others, that is sacrifice and again just as noble!

the law of the ten commandments no longer have any power over those who believe on Jesus, this was the whole idea of why Jesus came, if Jesus changed no laws and just lived as a jew, why did he come, why did the jews kill him.

you know you can yet many survived even the slaughter of the world wars, so you can survive, Jesus knew his fate was the worse kind of death and humiliation, why would anyone chose that way...no sane person would.

Show me which commandment he changed?

He never, you do not know your own scripture, that is for sure, I will look in again tomorrow

Men and women also have willingly sacrificed themselves in wars, WW2 being just one of them, showing their sacrifice is as noble

Night

by veya_victaous Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:08 am

PhilDidge wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

Actually Jesus Almost certainly did not exists, Unlike Moses that almost certainly did exist.

There were several Messiahs at the time, one called Joshua is the most like inspiration for Jesus.

How do we know? Jesus is not recorded as a name in any Jewish records. it is does not even uses syllables from Aramaic. The word 'Jesus' doesn't appear until the Messiah story moves into Greece and the Greek poets start talking about a guy called Jesus.

That is incorrect, he name is actually Yeshua, which was actually a form of Joshua, a very common name, plus other records do speak of a person, even Josephus names his brother James, as well as even mentioning Jesus himself, even though that verse has been edited later.
There is little doubt he existed and most scholars agree on this due to the fact the verses of his sayings remain consistent. It matters little as he was just a man, but to say he did not exist is really lacking in any validity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua_(name)

Titus Flavius Josephus 2] born Joseph ben Matityahu (Hebrew: יוסף בן מתתיהו, Yosef ben Matityahu), was a first-century Romano-Jewish scholar

Note the 'us' in not added to the name until he goes to Rome. And his work is debatable because of the manipulation by Christian interpolators in the centuries afterwards.

Scholarly opinion on the total or partial authenticity of the reference in Book 18, Chapter 3, 3 of the Antiquities to the execution of Jesus by Pontius Pilate, a passage usually called the Testimonium Flavianum, varies.[4][5][1] The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it is broadly agreed upon that it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus without a reference to the execution of Jesus by Pilate which was then subject to Christian interpolation.[5][6][7][8][9][10] Although the exact nature and extent of the Christian redaction remains unclear[11] there is broad consensus as to what the original text of the Testimonium by Josephus would have looked like.[9]

A textual argument against the authenticity of the James passage is that the use of the term "Christos" there seems unusual for Josephus.[89] An argument based on the flow of the text in the document is that given that the mention of Jesus appears in the Antiquities before that of the John the Baptist a Christian interpolator may have inserted it to place Jesus in the text before John.[89] A further argument against the authenticity of the James passage is that it would have read well even without a reference to Jesus.[89]

Some of the arguments for and against the authenticity of the James passage revolve around the similarities and differences between the accounts of Josephus, Origen, Eusebius and the Christian accounts. Although Josephus' account of the method of death of James differs from that of the Christian tradition, this is seen as an indication that the Josephus account is not a Christian interpolation.[22][91]

by Guest Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:11 am

Thanks Veya exactly as I mentioned not only once but twice in his accounts, another figure also mentioned is his brother James, who is also mentioned in the New testament

The reality is that is corroborating evidence, unusual does not mean it is not authentic

Until tomorrow

by Guest Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:14 am

Also this point even more so is apt:

Although Josephus' account of the method of death of James differs from that of the Christian tradition, this is seen as an indication that the Josephus account is not a Christian interpolation.

by Guest Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:14 am

PhilDidge wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

the law of the ten commandments no longer have any power over those who believe on Jesus, this was the whole idea of why Jesus came, if Jesus changed no laws and just lived as a jew, why did he come, why did the jews kill him.

you know you can yet many survived even the slaughter of the world wars, so you can survive, Jesus knew his fate was the worse kind of death and humiliation, why would anyone chose that way...no sane person would.

Show me which commandment he changed?

He never, you do not know your own scripture, that is for sure, I will look in again tomorrow

Men and women also have willingly sacrificed themselves in wars, WW2 being just one of them, showing their sacrifice is as noble

Night

he came to fulfill the law, that was quoted, what does fulfill mean, please tell me??

if he came and was just a good jew who followed all the jewish rules, why did he come and why did the jews kill him..

indeed the sacrifice of any soldiers is noble but the difference is Jesus knew his death was definite and it would be through crucifixion, a terrible and painful death, if Jesus was just a man, pretending to be God, why would he do it knowing what would happen?

by Guest Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:15 am

heavenly father wrote:
Korben Dallas wrote:
More Compleat bollux from you as i said ignore everything even jesus if it doesn`t fit your craap

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19

you are right the law will never pass away as it will be used to judge those who do not believe on Jesus, well done for pointing that out... :D

so thick can`t even see he has contradicted him self

Cognitive dissonance is strong with in you

by Guest Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:21 am

Korben Dallas wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

you are right the law will never pass away as it will be used to judge those who do not believe on Jesus, well done for pointing that out... :D
so thick can`t even see he has contradicted him self

Cognitive dissonance is strong with in you

how is that a contradiction...here i'll try to make it simple for you...

if you believe on Jesus as the son of God and your personal Saviour you come under the new covenant of Grace, which is God's undeserved, unmerited favour, your also receive the free gift of righteousness, which is right standing with God.

If you chose not to believe on Jesus then you will be judged by God according to the ten commandments, the law..

So you see the law will always be there right to the very end and that law will never change and thats why it is important that the law is still taught as it will make those who do not believe realise they cannot get salvation by themselves as their own works will never be good enough..

there that was easy wasn't it... :D

by Ben Reilly Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:51 am

heavenly father wrote:
Korben Dallas wrote:
heavenly father wrote:

you are right the law will never pass away as it will be used to judge those who do not believe on Jesus, well done for pointing that out... :D
so thick can`t even see he has contradicted him self

Cognitive dissonance is strong with in you

how is that a contradiction...here i'll try to make it simple for you...

if you believe on Jesus as the son of God and your personal Saviour you come under the new covenant of Grace, which is God's undeserved, unmerited favour, your also receive the free gift of righteousness, which is right standing with God.

If you chose not to believe on Jesus then you will be judged by God according to the ten commandments, the law..

So you see the law will always be there right to the very end and that law will never change and thats why it is important that the law is still taught as it will make those who do not believe realise they cannot get salvation by themselves as their own works will never be good enough..

there that was easy wasn't it... :D

Sorry, not to be rude, but that's not easy at all.

Here's the problem:

"I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt have no other gods before me."

But Jesus is supposed to be God's "earthly face" so to speak. So you can't really follow the commandments without believing "on" Jesus (such a silly phrase); you get stuck in an infinite loop ::roglol::

by Guest Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:19 am

heavenly father wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Show me which commandment he changed?

He never, you do not know your own scripture, that is for sure, I will look in again tomorrow

Men and women also have willingly sacrificed themselves in wars, WW2 being just one of them, showing their sacrifice is as noble

Night

he came to fulfill the law, that was quoted, what does fulfill mean, please tell me??

if he came and was just a good jew who followed all the jewish rules, why did he come and why did the jews kill him..

indeed the sacrifice of any soldiers is noble but the difference is Jesus knew his death was definite and it would be through crucifixion, a terrible and painful death, if Jesus was just a man, pretending to be God, why would he do it knowing what would happen?

Again woefully incorrect, as Jesus knew his death was not the end did he not if we use the stories of the bible, where as many soldiers do not. Thus Jesus even had reservations also about having to die, yet still went through this knowing he would according to the bible resurrect. A soldier does not have that luxury or countless other people that sacrifice themselves for others. thus the soldier or whoever willingly sacrifices themselves would be more noble..

The Jews did not kill him either, the Romans executed him, the Jews wanted him dead for Blasphemy according to the bible, which in this time Jews could put to death people for such crimes, but they never did and they handed him over to the Romans for sedition. Thus it I suspect whether the Jews made any such claim over him, as they had power to act on those within their own law. What we do know from the accounts does show Jesus in a different light though, some things stand out.

For example Jesus was followed by disciples with clear reference to Zealots, we have first of all Simon the Zealot and Barjona

And Jesus answered and said to him, Blessed are you, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it to you, but my Father which is in heaven.

Barjona is a derivation in Aramaic for "outlaw" another term applied to Zealots. We have Judas Iscariot, the Latin of which was "sicarius" or someone who is apt with a knife another Roman reference to Zealots.

Also why did Jesus tell his apostles to equip swords in anticipation of any trouble? All point to the fact of Jesus himself being a Zelaot or at least some of his closet followers being zealots. Thus with also claiming to be a King would be a direct threat to Roman rule, hence why executed by the Romans. So it is a common mistake of which you provide amble example of claiming the Jews killed Jesus, showing again you do not read your own works

So again show me any of the commandments he changed?

He never did and even worse is what you follow today is more off the back of the views of Paul than it is of the teachings of Jesus which is the Christianity that people in the main follow today .

by Sponsored content