Why are there so many 'honest and decent' Muslims in prison...?

Thorin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

So, you think the problem is hopeless?

I mean, punishment is wonderful, but you did say, by way of the Saira Khan article, that this was a culture-wide issue.  Muslims amount to 1.6-billion people, and that is a lot of people to punish.

Somebody else might suggest we simply kick all Muslim people out of Britain...call it the wall-out approach.  Apart from the hypocrisy of embracing a country as a part of the Empire, and then branding them persona non gratis, this anti-foreigner approach has been tried by the Chinese, with  two Opium Wars between 1839–1860, and the Boxer Rebellion, without success.

Anyway, those were the alternatives I was thinking of when I suggested education as a more feasible way.

As I have already said before on another thread.

The fact is there has been mainly ethnically Pakistani grooming gangs. Who have been targeting many white girls, Indian Sikh girls and Muslim girls. Most of which the Muslim girl victims is covered up within the Muslim community.

So the question to ask is why does grooming happen more specifically with one ethnic group in the UK?

Just look at the recent article of where the elders of a village carried out punishment not on the rapist. But on the rapist's sister, whilst they all watched, including her own parents.

Why do you think they did this?

Now this stems from mainly rural areas where there is a lack of education, but also beliefs and caste systems are embedded into the mindset of rural Pakistani's. That women are deemed inferior. Non-Muslim women classed more inferior and are misused based on what is taught around sex slaves in the Quran and hadith. (We see this prevalent within ISIS with sex slaves). You also with the village have a warped interpretation on an eye for an eye (not punishing the rapist but his sister) which is based on a misogynistic and again view that women are treated like cattle in such societies. 

Hence why we have a problem mainly from within the Pakistani community with rape, along side the issue of ethnically white and black rapists in this country. Again most Pakistani's are not rapists, but a substantial number have been grooming and abusing girls for years, getting away with this. They are mainly from or descend from the rural areas of Pakistan, Afghanistan etc or lack education. We dont seem to have the same issue with many other Muslim ethnic groups in the UK. So clearly a caste/honour system. A system of male only tribal leaders. A lack of an open education. Religious misogynistic beliefs taught into the mindset. Taught to emulate Muhammad, where its taught he had sex slaves, presenting sex slaves to his men. They come from Pakistan where most sexual violence goes unpunished. Sexual immaturity. Is a combination of these factors that lead to higher numbers of rape and the abuse of women/girls committed by Pakistani men both in the UK and Pakistan. 

Also just look at Pakistan itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Pakistan

http://www.war.org.pk/history.html

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Thorin wrote:


As I have already said before on another thread.

The fact is there has been mainly ethnically Pakistani grooming gangs. Who have been targeting many white girls, Indian Sikh girls and Muslim girls. Most of which the Muslim girl victims is covered up within the Muslim community.

So the question to ask is why does grooming happen more specifically with one ethnic group in the UK?

Just look at the recent article of where the elders of a village carried out punishment not on the rapist. But on the rapist's sister, whilst they all watched, including her own parents.

Why do you think they did this?

Now this stems from mainly rural areas where there is a lack of education, but also beliefs and caste systems are embedded into the mindset of rural Pakistani's. That women are deemed inferior. Non-Muslim women classed more inferior and are misused based on what is taught around sex slaves in the Quran and hadith. (We see this prevalent within ISIS with sex slaves). You also with the village have a warped interpretation on an eye for an eye (not punishing the rapist but his sister) which is based on a misogynistic and again view that women are treated like cattle in such societies. 

Hence why we have a problem mainly from within the Pakistani community with rape, along side the issue of ethnically white and black rapists in this country. Again most Pakistani's are not rapists, but a substantial number have been grooming and abusing girls for years, getting away with this. They are mainly from or descend from the rural areas of Pakistan, Afghanistan etc or lack education. We dont seem to have the same issue with many other Muslim ethnic groups in the UK. So clearly a caste/honour system. A system of male only tribal leaders. A lack of an open education. Religious misogynistic beliefs taught into the mindset. Taught to emulate Muhammad, where its taught he had sex slaves, presenting sex slaves to his men. They come from Pakistan where most sexual violence goes unpunished. Sexual immaturity. Is a combination of these factors that lead to higher numbers of rape and the abuse of women/girls committed by Pakistani men both in the UK and Pakistan. 

Also just look at Pakistan itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Pakistan

http://www.war.org.pk/history.html

India has a problem with rape itself unfortunately so it's not just Pakistan

India is known as a rape capital of the world!

Thorin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

So, you think the problem is hopeless?

I mean, punishment is wonderful, but you did say, by way of the Saira Khan article, that this was a culture-wide issue.  Muslims amount to 1.6-billion people, and that is a lot of people to punish.

Somebody else might suggest we simply kick all Muslim people out of Britain...call it the wall-out approach.  Apart from the hypocrisy of embracing a country as a part of the Empire, and then branding them persona non gratis, this anti-foreigner approach has been tried by the Chinese, with  two Opium Wars between 1839–1860, and the Boxer Rebellion, without success.

Anyway, those were the alternatives I was thinking of when I suggested education as a more feasible way.

As I have already said before on another thread.

The fact is there has been mainly ethnically Pakistani grooming gangs. Who have been targeting many white girls, Indian Sikh girls and Muslim girls. Most of which the Muslim girl victims is covered up within the Muslim community.

So the question to ask is why does grooming happen more specifically with one ethnic group in the UK?

Just look at the recent article of where the elders of a village carried out punishment not on the rapist. But on the rapist's sister, whilst they all watched, including her own parents.

Why do you think they did this?

Now this stems from mainly rural areas where there is a lack of education, but also beliefs and caste systems are embedded into the mindset of rural Pakistani's. That women are deemed inferior. Non-Muslim women classed more inferior and are misused based on what is taught around sex slaves in the Quran and hadith. (We see this prevalent within ISIS with sex slaves). You also with the village have a warped interpretation on an eye for an eye (not punishing the rapist but his sister) which is based on a misogynistic and again view that women are treated like cattle in such societies. 

Hence why we have a problem mainly from within the Pakistani community with rape, along side the issue of ethnically white and black rapists in this country. Again most Pakistani's are not rapists, but a substantial number have been grooming and abusing girls for years, getting away with this. They are mainly from or descend from the rural areas of Pakistan, Afghanistan etc or lack education. We dont seem to have the same issue with many other Muslim ethnic groups in the UK. So clearly a caste/honour system. A system of male only tribal leaders. A lack of an open education. Religious misogynistic beliefs taught into the mindset. Taught to emulate Muhammad, where its taught he had sex slaves, presenting sex slaves to his men. They come from Pakistan where most sexual violence goes unpunished. Sexual immaturity. Is a combination of these factors that lead to higher numbers of rape and the abuse of women/girls committed by Pakistani men both in the UK and Pakistan. 

Also just look at Pakistan itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Pakistan

http://www.war.org.pk/history.html

veya_victaous wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Any way you cut it, it's the society's fault.

it's also they systems fault

there are disproportionate amount of jews too

WHY? because in prison kosher and halal food is better

google it, heaps of articles on the fact that is what many prisoners themselves say

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:


As I have already said before on another thread.

The fact is there has been mainly ethnically Pakistani grooming gangs. Who have been targeting many white girls, Indian Sikh girls and Muslim girls. Most of which the Muslim girl victims is covered up within the Muslim community.

So the question to ask is why does grooming happen more specifically with one ethnic group in the UK?

Just look at the recent article of where the elders of a village carried out punishment not on the rapist. But on the rapist's sister, whilst they all watched, including her own parents.

Why do you think they did this?

Now this stems from mainly rural areas where there is a lack of education, but also beliefs and caste systems are embedded into the mindset of rural Pakistani's. That women are deemed inferior. Non-Muslim women classed more inferior and are misused based on what is taught around sex slaves in the Quran and hadith. (We see this prevalent within ISIS with sex slaves). You also with the village have a warped interpretation on an eye for an eye (not punishing the rapist but his sister) which is based on a misogynistic and again view that women are treated like cattle in such societies. 

Hence why we have a problem mainly from within the Pakistani community with rape, along side the issue of ethnically white and black rapists in this country. Again most Pakistani's are not rapists, but a substantial number have been grooming and abusing girls for years, getting away with this. They are mainly from or descend from the rural areas of Pakistan, Afghanistan etc or lack education. We dont seem to have the same issue with many other Muslim ethnic groups in the UK. So clearly a caste/honour system. A system of male only tribal leaders. A lack of an open education. Religious misogynistic beliefs taught into the mindset. Taught to emulate Muhammad, where its taught he had sex slaves, presenting sex slaves to his men. They come from Pakistan where most sexual violence goes unpunished. Sexual immaturity. Is a combination of these factors that lead to higher numbers of rape and the abuse of women/girls committed by Pakistani men both in the UK and Pakistan. 

Also just look at Pakistan itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Pakistan

http://www.war.org.pk/history.html

That's what we've been discussing.  Syl brought to light an article (above) by Saira Khan.  It brought up several cultural factors, mostly related to the strict standards by which women are governed in Muslim populations.

What do you suggest is the answer?  So far, we have been discussing punishment, shut out (or wall-out) and education...as suggestions for improvement.  Punishment is difficult if it is religious or religious-cultural, as there are 1.6-billion Muslims.  And, as I pointed out, shut-outs didn't work real well for China either during the Opium Wars or the Boxer Rebellion.  We are left with education.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I know, but the Pakistanis lend a specific flavor.  I don't mean to be critical, only to say they stand out.  And I've been on the train when everyone giggles.

Are you stereotyping Pakistani accents?    

Thorin wrote:But the next step is how you bring about an open education system to Pakistan.

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:But the next step is how you bring about an open education system to Pakistan.

Since the thread dealt with an incident in the UK, we were discussing it more in terms of Britain.  

I know if someone wants to go for visas or citizenship in the US, we have classes in US History and US Society, in addition to English language, that they must master first.  Couldn't something be structured there in the form of classes on British culture...perhaps with a particular mind toward the role of women, and related matter too.  There must be thousands of Ed.D's there who could design courses.  Simple, direct and with a mind toward this issue.

Has anybody tried this?  As a former university professor, plus a law doctorate to bring forth the down-side, I'm open.     

Thorin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Since the thread dealt with an incident in the UK, we were discussing it more in terms of Britain.  

I know if someone wants to go for visas or citizenship in the US, we have classes in US History and US Society, in addition to English language, that they must master first.  Couldn't something be structured there in the form of classes on British culture...perhaps with a particular mind toward the role of women, and related matter too.  There must be thousands of Ed.D's there who could design courses.  Simple, direct and with a mind toward this issue.

Has anybody tried this?  As a former university professor, plus a law doctorate to bring forth the down-side, I'm open.     

Well many are foreign born from Pakistan that have been involved in grooming. So clearly the root cause would be where they come from then would it not?
I think they would need to master human rights, equality and be taught that caste systems have no place in a modern secular society.
So an adaption to your requirements would help.

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Well many are foreign born from Pakistan that have been involved in grooming. So clearly the root cause would be where they come from then would it not?
I think they would need to master human rights, equality and be taught that caste systems have no place in a modern secular society.
So an adaption to your requirements would help.

Gotta start somewhere.  

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Thorin wrote:


As I have already said before on another thread.

The fact is there has been mainly ethnically Pakistani grooming gangs. Who have been targeting many white girls, Indian Sikh girls and Muslim girls. Most of which the Muslim girl victims is covered up within the Muslim community.

So the question to ask is why does grooming happen more specifically with one ethnic group in the UK?

Just look at the recent article of where the elders of a village carried out punishment not on the rapist. But on the rapist's sister, whilst they all watched, including her own parents.

Why do you think they did this?

Now this stems from mainly rural areas where there is a lack of education, but also beliefs and caste systems are embedded into the mindset of rural Pakistani's. That women are deemed inferior. Non-Muslim women classed more inferior and are misused based on what is taught around sex slaves in the Quran and hadith. (We see this prevalent within ISIS with sex slaves). You also with the village have a warped interpretation on an eye for an eye (not punishing the rapist but his sister) which is based on a misogynistic and again view that women are treated like cattle in such societies. 

Hence why we have a problem mainly from within the Pakistani community with rape, along side the issue of ethnically white and black rapists in this country. Again most Pakistani's are not rapists, but a substantial number have been grooming and abusing girls for years, getting away with this. They are mainly from or descend from the rural areas of Pakistan, Afghanistan etc or lack education. We dont seem to have the same issue with many other Muslim ethnic groups in the UK. So clearly a caste/honour system. A system of male only tribal leaders. A lack of an open education. Religious misogynistic beliefs taught into the mindset. Taught to emulate Muhammad, where its taught he had sex slaves, presenting sex slaves to his men. They come from Pakistan where most sexual violence goes unpunished. Sexual immaturity. Is a combination of these factors that lead to higher numbers of rape and the abuse of women/girls committed by Pakistani men both in the UK and Pakistan. 

Also just look at Pakistan itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Pakistan

http://www.war.org.pk/history.html

India has a problem with rape itself unfortunately so it's not just Pakistan

India is known as a rape capital of the world!