Black preacher shot dead

A black preacher, who was stopped by cops, had his hands up, and his back to them, showing no threat at all, was tazered and then shot dead whilst on the ground! This was in Oklahoma.

Police said he was unarmed.

This is getting so bad now, he did nothing, wasnt threatening, down for the count and shot dead. Its so worrying that the police are so trigger happy. Why shoot him when he was down? I think its appalling.


http://news.sky.com/story/video-shows-unarmed-man-with-hands-up-being-shot-in-oklahoma-10585507

Police have a dangerous job in the USA with millionz of gunz on the streetz.
They are on edge when stopping people, particularly blacks.

thats no excuse major...

the man was unarmed and posing no threat...

In fact he was rendered non combatant becasue he'd already been tasered....


but that said ...what do you expect ...this is America...the land of the free

then I would expect them to face a trial

I expect some of your 'chums' will be cracking open the champagne, Dean.

I'm warning you HA...STOP the baiting.....

Major wrote:Police have a dangerous job in the USA with millionz of gunz on the streetz.
They are on edge when stopping people, particularly blacks.

They are shooting blacks without any provocation though Major. He had his hands up, un armed and tazered, so couldn't move. There was no justification for this. Im finding this so upsetting, its happening so much now.

Racist American cops. Someday, someone might actually tackle this problem.

Handy Andy wrote:I expect some of your 'chums' will be cracking open the champagne, Dean.

so you wouldn't expect them to face trial?

magica wrote:

Major wrote:Police have a dangerous job in the USA with millionz of gunz on the streetz.
They are on edge when stopping people, particularly blacks.

They are shooting blacks without any provocation though Major.  He had his hands up, un armed and tazered, so couldn't move.  There was no justification for this.  Im finding this so upsetting, its happening so much now.  

not as much as other blacks shooting each other though.
do black lives only matter when a policeman shoots them?

obviously these officers need to be investigated and charged

The Devil, You Know wrote:

magica wrote:

They are shooting blacks without any provocation though Major.  He had his hands up, un armed and tazered, so couldn't move.  There was no justification for this.  Im finding this so upsetting, its happening so much now.  

not as much as other blacks shooting each other though.
do black lives only matter when a policeman shoots them?

obviously these officers need to be investigated and charged

Ofcourse not, but shooting anyone when they're on the ground is murder imo. He couldn't move, whats the justification in that?

Blacks shoot blacks all the world over, but then whites shoot whites too, doesn't make it right though.

They need to be properly investigated and if necessary, charged and prosecuted.

Tommy Monk wrote:

They need to be properly investigated and if necessary, charged and prosecuted.

I agree, if anyone else did that, not a cop, they would be on a murder charge.

And I mean properly investigated... not like what the IPCC does here in uk by finding excuses for police wrongdoing...

(Full story from link in op)

Dash cam footage has emerged of an unarmed black man who was killed by a white police officer walking away from officers towards his vehicle with his hands up.

Video shows Terence Crutcher walking to his SUV and a female officer following him in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

The 40-year-old is then shocked with a stun gun and fatally shot.

Tulsa Police Chief Chuck Jordan said Mr Crutcher had no weapon on him or in his vehicle.

It is not clear from the footage what led Betty Shelby, the officer who fired the fatal shot, to draw her gun or what orders officers might have given Mr Crutcher.

Local and federal investigators are examining Friday's shooting to decide whether there should be criminal charges or if Mr Crutcher's rights were violated.

In the footage Mr Crutcher's vehicle is stopped in the middle of the road.

As he approaches it, three male officers walk up and Mr Crutcher appears to lower his hands and put them on the vehicle.

The officers then surround him, making it harder to see his actions from the dashboard camera.

Mr Crutcher is seen falling to the ground, and someone on the police radio says: "I think he may have just been Tasered."

One of the officers near Mr Crutcher moves away slightly.

Almost immediately, a female voice can be heard saying: "Shots fired."

Crutcher's head then drops.

A voice can be heard on the police radio saying, "Shots fired. We have one suspect down."

Police initially said Mr Crutcher was not obeying officers' commands, but police spokeswoman Jeanne MacKenzie said on Monday she did not know Mr Crutcher was doing that prompted police to shoot.

Two 911 calls described an SUV that had been abandoned in the middle of the road.

One unidentified caller said the driver was acting strangely, adding, "I think he's smoking something."

Mr Crutcher's twin sister, Tiffany Crutcher, called for charges to be filed.

"The big bad dude was my twin brother. That big bad dude was a father," she said.

"That big bad dude was a son. That big bad dude was enrolled at Tulsa Community College, just wanting to make us proud.

"That big bad dude loved God. That big bad dude was at church singing with all of his flaws, every week. That big bad dude, that's who he was"



Did anyone watch the video? Someone on the radio says something like "he look like a bad dude, looks like he's in something...he's not complying"

Didn't look like that to me!!

I saw the video and they surrounded him hands up, before they tasered him and when down, shot him. He didn't stand a chance.

He was walking with his hands up, not running, and from the vantage point on the video not once did he look as if he was about to run nor did he look threatening.

The police officer has no motive here.

magica wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
not as much as other blacks shooting each other though.
do black lives only matter when a policeman shoots them?

obviously these officers need to be investigated and charged

Ofcourse not, but shooting anyone when they're on the ground is murder imo.  He couldn't move, whats the justification in that?

Blacks shoot blacks all the world over, but then whites shoot whites too, doesn't make it right though.

how about shooting them when they are sat in a police car?

magica wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
not as much as other blacks shooting each other though.
do black lives only matter when a policeman shoots them?

obviously these officers need to be investigated and charged

Ofcourse not, but shooting anyone when they're on the ground is murder imo.  He couldn't move, whats the justification in that?

Blacks shoot blacks all the world over, but then whites shoot whites too, doesn't make it right though.

black lives would matter more if blacks held them more in regard.

more blacks die in the womb than at the hands of policemen.

What do you mean?

I haven't seen the video... but when you have armed police pointing guns at you and telling you what to do... you do it!!!


The police are always working on the assumption that you could be armed and/or dangerous... plus there is always an increased chance these days that someone could be wearing some explosive device under their clothing.


That is why they tell people to get their hands up and to follow instructions.


There is always the chance that the person is dropping their arms to reach for a weapon or a switch to activate a possible explosive device.

You haven't watched the video. He did have his arms up and he was walking calmly towards the car.

Tommy Monk wrote:

I haven't seen the video... but when you have armed police pointing guns at you and telling you what to do... you do it!!!


The police are always working on the assumption that you could be armed and/or dangerous... plus there is always an increased chance these days that someone could be wearing some explosive device under their clothing.


That is why they tell people to get their hands up and to follow instructions.


There is always the chance that the person is dropping their arms to reach for a weapon or a switch to activate a possible explosive device.

I said I haven't seen the video eddie...

I know.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

magica wrote:

They are shooting blacks without any provocation though Major.  He had his hands up, un armed and tazered, so couldn't move.  There was no justification for this.  Im finding this so upsetting, its happening so much now.  

not as much as other blacks shooting each other though.

do black lives only matter when a policeman shoots them?

That's hardly an argument, Dean.  That's a separate issue.  Obviously, police in southern states are undisciplined, and probably should have to go through FBI--or at least some Federal--training so that they learn the right way, and not your buddy's way.

Black on black crime is a problem.  It is born in poverty and racism, where very incidents such as these teach black youth that their lives are devalued, and even worthless.  No wonder they end up shooting each other, and innocent bystanders.  It doesn't help with Republicans and conservatives cutting funding for programs that subsidize child care, school lunches, medical care, housing and education.  All so the Republicans can cut taxes and get their greedy little hands on more money.  

Dean wrote:obviously these officers need to be investigated and charged

There was only one officer who did the shooting, Officer Betty Shelby.  Does it bother anybody that this trigger-happy officer was female? Like it or not, we all make assumptions, and we don't normally attribute such violent racism to women.

Original Quill wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:

magica wrote:

They are shooting blacks without any provocation though Major.  He had his hands up, un armed and tazered, so couldn't move.  There was no justification for this.  Im finding this so upsetting, its happening so much now.  

not as much as other blacks shooting each other though.

do black lives only matter when a policeman shoots them?

That's hardly an argument, Dean.  That's a separate issue.  Obviously, police in southern states are undisciplined, and probably should have to go through FBI--or at least some Federal--training so that they learn the right way, and not your buddy's way.

Black on black crime is a problem.  It is born in poverty and racism, where very incidents such as these teach black youth that their lives are devalued, and even worthless.  No wonder they end up shooting each other, and innocent bystanders.  It doesn't help with Republicans and conservatives cutting funding for programs that subsidize child care, school lunches, medical care, housing and education.  All so the Republicans can cut taxes and get their greedy little hands on more money.  

Dean wrote:obviously these officers need to be investigated and charged

There was only one officer who did the shooting, Officer Betty Shelby.  Does it bother anybody that this trigger-happy officer was female?  Like it or not, we all make assumptions, and we don't normally attribute such violent racism to women.

why? the world has been (and still is) blessed with its fair proportion of evil women

Lord Foul wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

That's hardly an argument, Dean.  That's a separate issue.  Obviously, police in southern states are undisciplined, and probably should have to go through FBI--or at least some Federal--training so that they learn the right way, and not your buddy's way.

Black on black crime is a problem.  It is born in poverty and racism, where very incidents such as these teach black youth that their lives are devalued, and even worthless.  No wonder they end up shooting each other, and innocent bystanders.  It doesn't help with Republicans and conservatives cutting funding for programs that subsidize child care, school lunches, medical care, housing and education.  All so the Republicans can cut taxes and get their greedy little hands on more money.  



There was only one officer who did the shooting, Officer Betty Shelby.  Does it bother anybody that this trigger-happy officer was female?  Like it or not, we all make assumptions, and we don't normally attribute such violent racism to women.

why? the world has been (and still is) blessed with its fair proportion of evil women

Well, that's what I wanted to hear about. In the criminal justice system we are familiar with a lot of coddling of Caucasian women. After the police officer, they are the most likely to get away with a crime. Let's see...I'll point out Casey Anthony, who kills her daughter and gets off...or, Andrea Yeats, who drown her five kids and gets sentenced to a hospital.

Officer Shelby takes a nice picture, and I'd bet a lot of potential jurors will not even want her charged.

Tommy Monk wrote:

They need to be properly investigated and if necessary, charged and prosecuted.

Good, straightforward reply, TM.

Just watched the video...


It doesn't show what was going on before hand... but it looks obvious to me that there was a lot more going on than him just being randomly pulled over etc...


Looks like police were out in numbers to apprehend him.


It also appears that although he had his hands up for part of video... one of the police voices says 'he's got his hands up now' in a surprised way... as if he had just started putting his hands up and this wasn't what he was doing before...


The man was slowly walking towards his car... this would be against the orders of the police...


Then it looks like he got to drivers side door and open window... and looks like he put at least one hand into car and was starting to grab for something...


I'm not surprised he was shot at all...!!!

Itwas the outcome that you would have wanted Tom. Black man shot dead.
That i why you are spinning this to suit your racist agenda.

I'm saying what I saw and what I thought...

We all know what you think Tom. Blacks are a lower species and are made for culling.
Whites are a superior race and have every right to shoot blacks and Muslims.
What we saw was white cop shooting an unarmed blsck guy with his hands open and arms up. Would you say the same had the roles been reversed?

perhaps it might be better to wait for the facts to come out.
there is certainly more to this than the police just shooting him for no reason.
a police helicopter was also overhead and they thought he was going to get tazered so he must have been doing something wrong.
there is a suggestion he was on pcp which could explain why the police were so jumpy.

perhaps the facts might come out eventually. those jumping to the conclusion he was innocent may be as wrong as those who believe he was a wrong 'un.
what is clear it will be used by the haters to inflame the situation amongst the black community and fan the flames of the race war being encouraged by the current administration

Handy Andy wrote:Blacks are a lower species and are made for culling.
Whites are a superior race and have every right to shoot blacks and Muslims.

what an odd thing to say.

see how that works?

Think you need to watch the video again...


And ask yourself what he may have been doing to have a police helicopter after him... and why his car is stopped in the middle of the road...?


He would have been being told to get on the floor, on his knees and hands behind his head...


He was walking back to his car and looked to be reaching into the open window...


If you were a police officer there... would you just stand there and wait to see if he pulled a gun out of car and started shooting at you or not...?

Original Quill wrote:

The Devil, You Know wrote:
not as much as other blacks shooting each other though.

do black lives only matter when a policeman shoots them?

That's hardly an argument, Dean.  That's a separate issue.  Obviously, police in southern states are undisciplined, and probably should have to go through FBI--or at least some Federal--training so that they learn the right way, and not your buddy's way.

Black on black crime is a problem.  It is born in poverty and racism, where very incidents such as these teach black youth that their lives are devalued, and even worthless.  No wonder they end up shooting each other, and innocent bystanders.  It doesn't help with Republicans and conservatives cutting funding for programs that subsidize child care, school lunches, medical care, housing and education.  All so the Republicans can cut taxes and get their greedy little hands on more money.  

Dean wrote:obviously these officers need to be investigated and charged

There was only one officer who did the shooting, Officer Betty Shelby.  Does it bother anybody that this trigger-happy officer was female?  Like it or not, we all make assumptions, and we don't normally attribute such violent racism to women.

this will be taken on board by the wacist BLM group and used to fan the flames of hatred.
there is more to this than what appears on the video which is from the second officers car who arrived as backup to the female officer

I still believe there is no need to shoot at centre mass of the target from point plank range - a 95% certainty of fatality. As effective, and with less liklihood of charges and investigations against the police is aim at the legs. Wrongdoers tend to lose interst in committing crime with an exploded kneecap and a broken shinbone. Not fatal, but totally debilitating and sufficient to effect an arrrest without causing death.
The arguement about not having a good target is hogwash at 15 feet. Officers spend hours on the firing ranges and if they cannot hit the lower half a person from 10-15 feet with plenty of rounds in the chamber,especially against a seemingly unarmed opponent, they shouldn't really be holding the weapon in the first place.

Tommy Monk wrote:Just watched the video...


It doesn't show what was going on before hand... but it looks obvious to me that there was a lot more going on than him just being randomly pulled over etc...


Looks like police were out in numbers to apprehend him.


It also appears that although he had his hands up for part of video... one of the police voices says 'he's got his hands up now' in a surprised way... as if he had just started putting his hands up and this wasn't what he was doing before...


The man was slowly walking towards his car... this would be against the orders of the police...


Then it looks like he got to drivers side door and open window... and looks like he put at least one hand into car and was starting to grab for something...


I'm not surprised he was shot at all...!!!

The man was tasered so couldnt move anyway, so why shoot him? If she had to yes as Handy said a leg shot would do it, but tbh, the man couldn't move after being tasered, that's the whole point of a taser.

He was tasered and rendered immobile.
No need at all for him to have died.

Taster may have been deployed but not always effective...

Tommy Monk wrote:Taster may have been deployed but not always effective...

Then an arm or leg shot, not a shot to kill him.

When those murderers killed Lee Rigby one was lasered I think then a leg shot and the other shot, neither one was killed. Those cops could've had done the same. He was lying down, why kill him?

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

That's hardly an argument, Dean.  That's a separate issue.  Obviously, police in southern states are undisciplined, and probably should have to go through FBI--or at least some Federal--training so that they learn the right way, and not your buddy's way.

Black on black crime is a problem.  It is born in poverty and racism, where very incidents such as these teach black youth that their lives are devalued, and even worthless.  No wonder they end up shooting each other, and innocent bystanders.  It doesn't help with Republicans and conservatives cutting funding for programs that subsidize child care, school lunches, medical care, housing and education.  All so the Republicans can cut taxes and get their greedy little hands on more money.  



There was only one officer who did the shooting, Officer Betty Shelby.  Does it bother anybody that this trigger-happy officer was female?  Like it or not, we all make assumptions, and we don't normally attribute such violent racism to women.

this will be taken on board by the wacist BLM group and used to fan the flames of hatred.

I hope so, because what you call the flames of hatred I call the flames of justice.  Black lives matter is a noble group trying to right a wrong pattern in America's south: white execution squads in uniform murdering black people.  We saw this pattern in Germany in 1932...when will they ever learn?

Dean wrote:there is more to this than what appears on the video which is from the second officers car who arrived as backup to the female officer

This has become the standard answer for southern police departments: Don't believe your eyes...listen to us.  You didn't see what was clearly seen on the video!  RW'rs continually make the erroneous assumption that other people are STUPID.  They lie...and expect THEIR lie will be accepted as the truth over the real truth.  

This has ultimately culminated in the ultimate RW candidate, Donald 'Al Capone' Trump, trying to call his opponent an outlaw, when he is the greatest criminal ever known.  He fabricates this story of criminality because he knows, from personal experience, it's effect on him.  The only difference is, in his case it's the truth.

But I digress.  Now, in a protest in North Caroline, another innocent black man was assassinated by police.  This time the lie wasn't the video lies, but he had a gun.  Did he?  I'll bet the gun they produce will turn out to have been registered to some cop, as his second weapon.  Funny that.

Cops have learned over the years how to fabricate 'appearances' to promote their lies.  I know, as I have been a lecturer in the criminology departments at two universities, and a law enforcement officer (attorney general), and seen these ploys in action.

Ultimately, as with Donald 'the assassin' Trump, it depends on whether you are gullible enough to believe that rubbish.

magica wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Taster may have been deployed but not always effective...

Then an arm or leg shot, not a shot to kill him.  

When those murderers killed Lee Rigby one was lasered I think then a leg shot and the other shot, neither one was killed.  Those cops could've had done the same.  He was lying down, why kill him?

Yes... quite.... althpugh he could have been reaching into car to set off explosives...


What is known is that when you have armed officers pointing guns at you and telling you to stop and get on the floor... you do what they say!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

magica wrote:

Then an arm or leg shot, not a shot to kill him.  

When those murderers killed Lee Rigby one was lasered I think then a leg shot and the other shot, neither one was killed.  Those cops could've had done the same.  He was lying down, why kill him?

Yes... quite.... althpugh he could have been reaching into car to set off explosives...

So could you. Would you excuse your shooter? Oh BTW, the window was closed. How do you reach into a closed window?

Tommy Monk wrote:What is known is that when you have armed officers pointing guns at you and telling you to stop and get on the floor... you do what they say!!!

...and you are dealing with a stalled vehicle and have done nothing wrong?? You might take a moment to question...why are they doing this? Then BLAM.

Put yourself in his shoes for a moment. I keep wondering if it was your son, would you take the same position? These are the sons and brothers of Black Lives Matter, and they're just asking: Why?

It was totally unjustified. And the only answer is, because his skin was black.

I agree quill. I've watched that video and that man's death was totally unecessary

So now all that happened was his vehicle stalled and the window was closed...?



Ok...

Tommy Monk wrote:

So now all that happened was his vehicle stalled and the window was closed...?

Ok...

...and the implication of what you have just said is, there was no provocation.  

Now, look over to new possibilities.  We know that racism, born of former slavery, and things like the KKK, has infected the American social mind for centuries.  Now, here comes a totally purposeless killing of a completely innocent black man...again, by a white police officer in a southern city.

Brings to mind precisely what Black Lives Matter is talking about, innit?

You claimed the car had just stalled and he was moving towards a closed window... while being told to stop and get on floor...



Stalled car... bullshit!


Closed window... looked open to me!


Police helicopter and (at least) 2 patrol cars attending for a stalled vehicle... bullshit!!!


There was a lot more going on Quill... and you know it as well as everyone else does!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:You claimed the car had just stalled and he was moving towards a closed window... while being told to stop and get on floor...

Stalled car... bullshit!

Closed window... looked open to me!

That's the facts, Jack...as reported by police.  The guy was simply trying to move his stalled vehicle off the road.  The first police car that arrived had simply turned on the emergency lights behind the stalled vehicle, to warn other motorists and avoid a collision.

We know the window was closed because it was covered with the blood of the black victim.

Tommy Monk wrote:Police helicopter and (at least) 2 patrol cars attending for a stalled vehicle... bullshit!!!

There was a lot more going on Quill... and you know it as well as everyone else does!!!

What was going on was the guy was black.  That seems to be the only difference between this incident and any other incident where a motorist is having car trouble.

The radio chatter has one officer saying, Watch out...he's a big sucker...  That seemed to have set things off.  What started out as helping a stalled motorist, soon turned into officers provoking a confrontation, pulling guns, ordering the man to lie on the ground, and him turning around in surprise at their attitude.

Then BLAM!

Can you back up these 'facts' you are claiming with any credible evidence...!?


Thing is Quill... his vehicle is in the middle of the road for a start... if you are moving along in a vehicle and the engine cuts out, you would already have pulled to the side of the road as it rolled to a stop...


Also... vast majority of the other members of public in vehicles around him or passing by him at the time of 'breakdown' would have already stopped to help and move vehicle over to side of roadway if he had broken down in such an unfortunate position in the road...


Plus... the vehicle looks quite new and in good condition... hardly looking like a beat up old banger that was likely to have 'broken down'...!



There is no way this man had just simply broken down there in the road and was just trying to get help to move the vehicle to a safer position at side of carriageway...!