Has anyone seen them yet?

Anywhere?

"Them" who? (Please don't say "deez nutz")

the romanians??

 :D 

saw 3 this morning,one was limping!!!

Apparently Keith Vas has been at Luton airport shaking hands with them and buying them coffee.

they have been given a 5 bed house and a job in the library!!

They are still sleeping off their hangovers.

Bulgarian and Romanian citizens are free to live and work in the UK after controls in place since 2007 expired.

Romanian Victor Spiersau was aboard and said: "I don't come to rob your country. I come to work and go home."

The UK has not released forecasts of migrant numbers, but campaigners say up to 50,000 people a year could come.

Immigration minister Mark Harper said curbs on access to benefits would ensure those heading to the UK would contribute to the economy.

Labour MP Mr Vaz, who was accompanied at Luton Airport by Tory MP Mark Reckless, said the 180-seat aircraft from the central Romanian city of Targu Mureș had only 140 passengers on board, most of whom already live and work in the UK.

"We've seen no evidence of people who have rushed out and bought tickets in order to arrive because it's the 1st of January," he said.

One of the plane's passengers, Victor Spiersau, was coming to the country for the first time.

The 30-year-old said he already had a car washing job lined up that would earn him 10 euros (£ an hour - an improvement on the 10 euros a day he received working in the construction industry at home.

"I don't come to rob your country. I come to work and then go home," he said. "Here you pay a lot; in Romania it's very cheap."

Mr Spiersau added: "I don't want to stay here. I want to renovate my home and to make a good life in Romania because it's much easier to live in Romania because it's not expensive."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25549715

Sassy wrote:Bulgarian and Romanian citizens are free to live and work in the UK after controls in place since 2007 expired.

Romanian Victor Spiersau was aboard and said: "I don't come to rob your country. I come to work and go home."

The UK has not released forecasts of migrant numbers, but campaigners say up to 50,000 people a year could come.

Immigration minister Mark Harper said curbs on access to benefits would ensure those heading to the UK would contribute to the economy.

Labour MP Mr Vaz, who was accompanied at Luton Airport by Tory MP Mark Reckless, said the 180-seat aircraft from the central Romanian city of Targu Mureș had only 140 passengers on board, most of whom already live and work in the UK.

"We've seen no evidence of people who have rushed out and bought tickets in order to arrive because it's the 1st of January," he said.

One of the plane's passengers, Victor Spiersau, was coming to the country for the first time.

The 30-year-old said he already had a car washing job lined up that would earn him 10 euros (£ an hour - an improvement on the 10 euros a day he received working in the construction industry at home.

"I don't come to rob your country. I come to work and then go home," he said. "Here you pay a lot; in Romania it's very cheap."

Mr Spiersau added: "I don't want to stay here. I want to renovate my home and to make a good life in Romania because it's much easier to live in Romania because it's not expensive."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25549715

..Hiya Sassy...great to 'see you'

Thanks JD. I'm keeping my eyes out for these hordes, but so far Farage looks a bit of a tit. No change there then.

There was another bit in that report that Farage likes to overlook:

Laszlo Andor, the EU commissioner for employment, social affairs and inclusion, said there were already three million people from Bulgaria and Romania living in other European Union member states.

"It is unlikely that there will be any major increase following the ending of the final restrictions on Bulgarian and Romanian workers," he said.

Mr Andor said his organisation recognised that migrant influxes could strain welfare systems in host countries but since the EU provided contingency funds for this it was no reason to put up barriers.

That's right Sassy, I saw on news today how other countries will have its share of the Bulgarians and Romanians...

As to why folk complain, well they are prepared to do any kind of work anyway, and without immigrants this country would not work to its full capacity.

Makes me laugh, the way people talk you would think no British person ever went to work in the EU.

Again it is not the "robbing of the country" which is the issue as it is false anyway. Labour and the Liberals keep trying to keep the focus on things like this which are figments of their own imagination and not the reason there is a huge amount of concern from voters of all ilks.

The real concerns are that when if this man slips at his car washing job and suffers an injury he will visit a hospital - which has no more space than it did 10 years ago, and he will take up space, and use resources. Use the same space and resources that were strained before he came here. Multiply him by all the others like him. It does not matter if every single one of them is a hard working law abiding citizen they will use water and produce sewage, eat and produce rubbish, travel and take up space, possibly become ill and use resources. Resources that are already more stretched than they were 10 years so that every person who lives in this land has to cope with less than 10 years ago. If the government woke up tomorrow and decided to correct the neglect of infrastructure it would take at least 5 years and more likely much longer to bring services up to where they were 10 years ago.

Shadow immigration minister lambasts government as Britain opens its borders to Bulgarian and Romanian workers

The government has failed to introduce measures to protect the rights of low-skilled British workers whose jobs may be threatened by new migrants from eastern Europe, a Labour shadow minister has claimed.

As Britain opened its borders to Bulgarian and Romanian workers on New Year's Day, David Hanson, the shadow immigration minister, said the government has ignored calls to strengthen existing legislation that could stop employers from undercutting British employees' wages by recruiting from overseas.

His comments came as the first Romanians and Bulgarians with unrestricted access to the UK labour market began to arrive amid a deepening political row.

All political parties are aware that the possibility of high numbers of new migrants has become an issue, fuelled by unproven claims that the new arrivals could lead to a rise in crime and social problems.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/01/immigration-british-workers-romanians-bulgarians

I do think we need to make sure that the rights of low paid British citizens are protected though.  Bearing in mind the difference in cost of living from Britain to Romania it would be easy for employers to pay Romanians who plan to work and go home much much less than a British worker  

sphinx wrote:Again it is not the "robbing of the country" which is the issue as it is false anyway.  Labour and the Liberals keep trying to keep the focus on things like this which are figments of their own imagination and not the reason there is a huge amount of concern from voters of all ilks.

The real concerns are that when if this man slips at his car washing job and suffers an injury he will visit a hospital - which has no more space than it did 10 years ago, and he will take up space, and use resources.  Use the same space and resources that were strained before he came here.  Multiply him by all the others like him.  It does not matter if every single one of them is a hard working law abiding citizen they will use water and produce sewage,  eat and produce rubbish, travel and take up space, possibly become ill and use resources.  Resources that are already more stretched than they were 10 years so that every person who lives in this land has to cope with less than 10 years ago.  If the government woke up tomorrow and decided to correct the neglect of infrastructure it would take at least 5 years and more likely much longer to bring services up to where they were 10 years ago.

So Britain's in EU countries don't use their health services, schools etc?

We are full, we havent the housing the jobs or the infrastructure to cope with another influx of people

sphinx wrote:Again it is not the "robbing of the country" which is the issue as it is false anyway.  Labour and the Liberals keep trying to keep the focus on things like this which are figments of their own imagination and not the reason there is a huge amount of concern from voters of all ilks.

The real concerns are that when if this man slips at his car washing job and suffers an injury he will visit a hospital - which has no more space than it did 10 years ago, and he will take up space, and use resources.  Use the same space and resources that were strained before he came here.  Multiply him by all the others like him.  It does not matter if every single one of them is a hard working law abiding citizen they will use water and produce sewage,  eat and produce rubbish, travel and take up space, possibly become ill and use resources.  Resources that are already more stretched than they were 10 years so that every person who lives in this land has to cope with less than 10 years ago.  If the government woke up tomorrow and decided to correct the neglect of infrastructure it would take at least 5 years and more likely much longer to bring services up to where they were 10 years ago.

Plus of course:

Mr Andor said his organisation recognised that migrant influxes could strain welfare systems in host countries but since the EU provided contingency funds for this it was no reason to put up barriers.

Sassy wrote:

sphinx wrote:Again it is not the "robbing of the country" which is the issue as it is false anyway.  Labour and the Liberals keep trying to keep the focus on things like this which are figments of their own imagination and not the reason there is a huge amount of concern from voters of all ilks.

The real concerns are that when if this man slips at his car washing job and suffers an injury he will visit a hospital - which has no more space than it did 10 years ago, and he will take up space, and use resources.  Use the same space and resources that were strained before he came here.  Multiply him by all the others like him.  It does not matter if every single one of them is a hard working law abiding citizen they will use water and produce sewage,  eat and produce rubbish, travel and take up space, possibly become ill and use resources.  Resources that are already more stretched than they were 10 years so that every person who lives in this land has to cope with less than 10 years ago.  If the government woke up tomorrow and decided to correct the neglect of infrastructure it would take at least 5 years and more likely much longer to bring services up to where they were 10 years ago.

So Britain's in EU countries don't use their health services, schools etc?

Your point?

The point is I and the majority of British people want the power to decide who comes into this country and when and under what circumstances. We are more than happy for all other countries to maintain control of their own borders in fact we spend vast amounts of time pointing at USA, Canada Australia etc as examples. We are not saying stop all immigration forever we are saying control of that immigration should lie within the country affected - if other countries want to limit Brits from emigrating to them then fine - the example countries given already do that, just let the people of this country have the right to say what happens.

Sassy wrote:

sphinx wrote:Again it is not the "robbing of the country" which is the issue as it is false anyway.  Labour and the Liberals keep trying to keep the focus on things like this which are figments of their own imagination and not the reason there is a huge amount of concern from voters of all ilks.

The real concerns are that when if this man slips at his car washing job and suffers an injury he will visit a hospital - which has no more space than it did 10 years ago, and he will take up space, and use resources.  Use the same space and resources that were strained before he came here.  Multiply him by all the others like him.  It does not matter if every single one of them is a hard working law abiding citizen they will use water and produce sewage,  eat and produce rubbish, travel and take up space, possibly become ill and use resources.  Resources that are already more stretched than they were 10 years so that every person who lives in this land has to cope with less than 10 years ago.  If the government woke up tomorrow and decided to correct the neglect of infrastructure it would take at least 5 years and more likely much longer to bring services up to where they were 10 years ago.

Plus of course:

Mr Andor said his organisation recognised that migrant influxes could strain welfare systems in host countries but since the EU provided contingency funds for this it was no reason to put up barriers.

I repeat the government could decide tomorrow to bring the infrastructure up to where it was 10 years ago but it would take at least 5 years for it to be done and most likely much much longer so the question is during the time it is being bought up to standard do we stop even more people coming in or do we just keep putting more and more stress on it.

Of course neither the government nor the EU have any intention of providing funds either contingency or otherwise at the moment so it is pointless speculation.

The EU provides contingency funds Sphinx.

Sassy wrote:The EU provides contingency funds Sphinx.

So the reason we are not seeing a massive building program of new schools, doctors surgeries, roads, maternity units etc to cope with the increase already experienced in the last 10 years is what?

What circumstances do the EU consider to be suitable for "contingency funds" anyway? How many children have to be left without a primary school place? How many people have to wait how many days to access an ordinary doctors appointment? How many women give birth without a proper maternity bed available?

Sassy wrote:

sphinx wrote:Again it is not the "robbing of the country" which is the issue as it is false anyway.  Labour and the Liberals keep trying to keep the focus on things like this which are figments of their own imagination and not the reason there is a huge amount of concern from voters of all ilks.

The real concerns are that when if this man slips at his car washing job and suffers an injury he will visit a hospital - which has no more space than it did 10 years ago, and he will take up space, and use resources.  Use the same space and resources that were strained before he came here.  Multiply him by all the others like him.  It does not matter if every single one of them is a hard working law abiding citizen they will use water and produce sewage,  eat and produce rubbish, travel and take up space, possibly become ill and use resources.  Resources that are already more stretched than they were 10 years so that every person who lives in this land has to cope with less than 10 years ago.  If the government woke up tomorrow and decided to correct the neglect of infrastructure it would take at least 5 years and more likely much longer to bring services up to where they were 10 years ago.

So Britain's in EU countries don't use their health services, schools etc?

Actually, no. Not for free anyway. I've been billed for using an A&E dept when I broke my wrist abroad. I have family who live in Europe and have to pay for the kids' education. Seems like its only the UK where its free.

Well they are here already.

I've seen them living on the grassed area on the central reservation in Park Lane,London.Just up from there they have made the monument of Marble Arch a virtual no go area.And they beg & generally cause annoyance outside of many tube stations in the capital.

So really,the vermin are here already.

Sorry but many people miss the boat on immigration, for the majority it is good for a nation. The reality is by 2050 1 in 4 in this country will be over 65 and thus we already have an imbalance with the age in populations of which needs addressing. Immigration can help balance this out as our has an imbalance of youth and the older generation will need more of a younger generation to help look after them in old age. At present the vast majority of migrants are in the age group 18-31. When this balances out we do need to look further at population growths also for the benefit of all humanity, as they are getting out of control
 
Most immigrants especially within the EU come here to work, in fact the ration is higher more so than the indigenous/ Plus the fact over 2 million Brits live within the EU itself, which would be impossible with such free movement, nobody is moaning about that factor, only those who are selfish to their own needs within this country, when the reality is we need immigration for the economy to expand.

Yes immigration needs to be controlled but much of that has to happen within a nation itself and not give freebies away on entering!

Loki wrote:

Sassy wrote:

So Britain's in EU countries don't use their health services, schools etc?

Actually, no.  Not for free anyway.  I've been billed for using an A&E dept when I broke my wrist abroad.  I have family who live in Europe and have to pay for the kids' education.  Seems like its only the UK where its free.

That is incorrect, as I have flown out to Poland to have dentistry work and far cheaper.
In Germany 10,000 Brits are also on benefits.
Was you only holiday when you broke your wrist?
You get many of the same benefits you do in the uk as you do within the EU

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/27/eu-migrant-uk_n_4350519.html

PhilDidge wrote:

Loki wrote:
Actually, no.  Not for free anyway.  I've been billed for using an A&E dept when I broke my wrist abroad.  I have family who live in Europe and have to pay for the kids' education.  Seems like its only the UK where its free.

That is incorrect, as I have flown out to Poland to have dentistry work and far cheaper.
In Germany 10,000 Brits are also on benefits.
Was you only holiday when you broke your wrist?
You get many of the same benefits you do in the uk as you do within the EU

...what I suspect you done a didge, was see that article on the news a few months back about dentistry and medical bills being cheaper there..

Tee hee..  

PhilDidge wrote:Sorry but many people miss the boat on immigration, for the majority it is good for a nation. The reality is by 2050 1 in 4 in this country will be over 65 and thus we already have an imbalance with the age in populations of which needs addressing. Immigration can help balance this out as our has an imbalance of youth and the older generation will need more of a younger generation to help look after them in old age. At present the vast majority of migrants are in the age group 18-31. When this balances out we do need to look further at population growths also for the benefit of all humanity, as they are getting out of control
 
Most immigrants especially within the EU come here to work, in fact the ration is higher more so than the indigenous/ Plus the fact over 2 million Brits live within the EU itself, which would be impossible with such free movement, nobody is moaning about that factor, only those who are selfish to their own needs within this country, when the reality is we need immigration for the economy to expand.

Yes immigration needs to be controlled but much of that has to happen within a nation itself and not give freebies away on entering!

All I (and thousands of others) want is for that control to be decided by this government not enforced by some other body.

sphinx wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:Sorry but many people miss the boat on immigration, for the majority it is good for a nation. The reality is by 2050 1 in 4 in this country will be over 65 and thus we already have an imbalance with the age in populations of which needs addressing. Immigration can help balance this out as our has an imbalance of youth and the older generation will need more of a younger generation to help look after them in old age. At present the vast majority of migrants are in the age group 18-31. When this balances out we do need to look further at population growths also for the benefit of all humanity, as they are getting out of control
 
Most immigrants especially within the EU come here to work, in fact the ration is higher more so than the indigenous/ Plus the fact over 2 million Brits live within the EU itself, which would be impossible with such free movement, nobody is moaning about that factor, only those who are selfish to their own needs within this country, when the reality is we need immigration for the economy to expand.

Yes immigration needs to be controlled but much of that has to happen within a nation itself and not give freebies away on entering!

All I (and thousands of others) want is for that control to be decided by this government not enforced by some other body.

The point is Sphinx, nobody is actually stopping any Government from doing so, it is a myth to think the EU takes any action as seen they never really do if a nation goes against their policies. Have we given the vote to prisoners?
No, thus we do many things and need to more ourselves on our own laws.

PhilDidge wrote:

sphinx wrote:

All I (and thousands of others) want is for that control to be decided by this government not enforced by some other body.

The point is Sphinx, nobody is actually stopping any Government from doing so, it is a myth to think the EU takes any action as seen they never really do if a nation goes against their policies. Have we given the vote to prisoners?
No, thus we do many things and need to more ourselves on our own laws.

Votes for prisoners is under a different area from freedom of movement - we are not technically fully signed up to one although if you check out the latest discussions in the law lords you will see our top legal minds have suddenly realized just how intrusive and invasive some of the EU edicts are and we are to the other. (oh yeah and there are some very worrying changes in language from the government that suggest they may be working prisoner votes in quietly and slowly)

There is actually nothing to stop our government deciding tomorrow they are going to have nothing else to do with the EU accept our previous agreement to abide by the rules - and it is abiding by those rules that means the government will not take control of our borders because it is against the EU rules.

However again I go back to my main point - right now our countries infrastructure is stretched too far affecting the quality of life for all citizens living here. If we want more in then we have to sort out things so they can be here and we are not doing that. OK so its the governments responsibility and to a point they are using the EU as an excuse but if we were out of the EU they would not have that excuse.

Sphinx we would need to adapt our infrastructure not matter if there was no immigration, of which many is very much dated or the fact is we would also still need to increase all this because the world is becoming vastly more populated. In reality the world need to unite with this issue but many migrants are needed from vital jobs also, to point to the fact one third of doctors are foreign shows the vastly big shortfall of specialized manpower, which is not helped by the off set of lucrative jobs for those born and raised and educated here drawn away by better offers. So it is not as clear and easy to resolve as you my think.

The fact is as seen there is a culture in this country who have no intention to work, some go through school with no intention to study either and these are the ones who will see it as beneath them to do a minimum days work and thus employers are reaching out to people to fill vacancies which are in the main not wanted by some people here. The ethos thus has to change also as the demand for migration workers is high. We do need to change the minimum wage to a living wage this I feel will work, but will also need to change attitudes of those who think they can go through life doing as little as possible

Just a trickle then. Oh well, the burger stall at Luton Airport will be well disappointed with that lol

Sassy wrote:Makes me laugh, the way people talk you would think no British person ever went to work in the EU.

Apparently there are approx 286,000 British Nationality working in the rest of the EU, the number of EU workers in Britain is three or even four times that number. Even in the administration of the EU, while Britains population is 12% of the EU the number of British workers in the admin is 1.5% - not exactly an even playing field - I wonder why this country seems so popular, could it be the weather I wonder.

Actually your arguments do not hold as much water as you think.

Without the population increase caused by immigration our infrastructure could be maintained it would not need increasing. 15/20 years there was less pressure on school places/maternity beds not to say the rest of it - we could have maintained that without the extra population increase.

As for specialized manpower our government(s) at the behest of big employees have used immigration as a blind for a short sighted policy of saving money by not paying for and investing in proper training. Why invest year and thousands training someone when you can bring someone in from abroad for less.

As for the culture of non work - which is not actually half as common or widespread as is made out and which is actually actively encouraged by our current education system that is again used as an excuse for needing immigration when actually it is the opposite. What we should be doing is getting our unemployed working before we bring in others not using the arrival of others as an excuse for letting them get away with it.

But again that gets away from my main point - the country is has not be geared and in not being geared for largish immigration. If we are going to be open to immigration we have to start spending the money to cope with it, if we dont want to spend the money we cannot have uncontrolled immigration

In a poll 63% of the British public have said they have no problem with immigrants who have skills coming to this country. I'm not sure if skills are measured on the people that come here from the EU and with free movement I can't see how the can.

We don't have uncontrolled immigration from non-EU countries. All EU countries have uncontrolled immigration from each other, one of the reasons it was set up.

nicko wrote:saw 3 this morning,one was limping!!!

Was that after you kicked him? lol

Sassy wrote:We don't have uncontrolled immigration from non-EU countries.   All EU countries have uncontrolled immigration from each other, one of the reasons it was set up.

Cause the theory was movement would be equal between different countries - that is not the case.

sphinx wrote:

Sassy wrote:We don't have uncontrolled immigration from non-EU countries.   All EU countries have uncontrolled immigration from each other, one of the reasons it was set up.

Cause the theory was movement would be equal between different countries - that is not the case.

With different population sizes that could never be achieved and it was never the theory.

Irn Bru wrote:

sphinx wrote:

Cause the theory was movement would be equal between different countries - that is not the case.

With different population sizes that could never be achieved and it was never the theory.

Equal does work more than one way

like for every x number of people coming into each county there would be a similar number going to other countries, like for every 1000 of a countries population it would be expected for there to this amount of immigration.

Then there was the single currency - it was suppose to mean that values were more similar across the whole organization.

What was not planned for because it was not supposed to happen was mass movement from countries whose daily pay could be made in an hour else where. This is not just a problem for the UK but for all the wealthier countries. The reason we are especially hard hit is because we as a nation are practised and generous at welcoming others and it is easier for immigrants to make it here than elsewhere.

sphinx wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

With different population sizes that could never be achieved and it was never the theory.

Equal does work more than one way

like for every x number of people coming into each county there would be a similar number going to other countries,  like for every 1000 of a countries population it would be expected for there to this amount of immigration.

Then there was the single currency - it was suppose to mean that values were more similar across the whole organization.

What was not planned for because it was not supposed to happen was mass movement from countries whose daily pay could be made in an hour else where.  This is not just a problem for the UK but for all the wealthier countries.  The reason we are especially hard hit is because we as a nation are practised and generous at welcoming others and it is easier for immigrants to make it here than elsewhere.

So it was never the theory and never one of the founding principles of the EU?

Not really Sphinx, one of the reasons why the over 3 million Bulgarians and Romanians already work in other EU counties.  

But their citizens have long since enjoyed unrestricted access to 19 EU states, allowing millions of Bulgarians and Romanians to find work abroad – making it unlikely that the UK will face the kind of mass immigration that followed Poland’s EU entry in 2004,

Laszlo Ander, the EU Commissioner for Employment, Social Affairs and Inclusion, claimed in a statement issued today: “It is unlikely that there will be any major increase following the ending of the final restrictions on Bulgarian and Romanian workers,” he said.

He added that there are two million unfilled job vacancies in the EU, reinforcing the case for allowing EU citizens to move across borders to search for work.

“The free movement of people has been one of the cornerstones of EU integration,” he claimed. “This right is one of the most cherished by Europeans, with over 14 million of them studying, working or retiring in another EU state.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mass-immigration-unlikely-as-millions-of-romanians-and-bulgarians-find-work-elsewhere-9032078.html

Yeah yeah we have heard it all before - there wont be large numbers because they are already working in other EU countries yada yada yada - then there are large numbers.

Again central point of my argument if we want immigrants we have to find the money to pay for the infrastructure, if we cant or wont find the money for the infrastructure we have to limit the immigrants.

Please note I am not saying which of the 2 options we should follow just that we need to do something because we cannot keep going like we are.

sphinx wrote:Yeah yeah we have heard it all before - there wont be large numbers because they are already working in other EU countries yada yada yada  - then there are large numbers.

Again central point of my argument if we want immigrants we have to find the money to pay for the infrastructure,  if we cant or wont find the money for the infrastructure we have to limit the immigrants.

Please note I am not saying which of the 2 options we should follow just that we need to do something because we cannot keep going like we are.

But we would need to find the money to upgrade the infrastructure anyway and I believe reports indicate that immigration has had a beneficial effect on our economy which if true means that immigrants are not costing us any money overall.

If our population was static why would we have to upgrade the infrastructure? We would need to maintain it and we might consider improving it but there would be no need for upgrade.

I am talking about meeting the predictions the government gets on things like school places - there are people whose job it is to look at population trends and say right in 5 years time that power cut means there will be 10% more children needing a school place so we need to make sure we have the buildings equipments and personnel to meet this increased demand. This is not being done. Or rather the planners are going well we are going to have between x and y numbers of immigrants which means there will be this much extra demand for maternity beds, this much for GPs, this much for school places but we have not got the money to open another maternity unit, or employ another GP or build a new school so the demands will have to be from our current resources. This means that there will be this number of women now giving birth in the waiting room, people will have to wait this much longer for GP appointments, and more children will have to fit into the same room but hey we can manage.

Irn Bru wrote:

sphinx wrote:Yeah yeah we have heard it all before - there wont be large numbers because they are already working in other EU countries yada yada yada  - then there are large numbers.

Again central point of my argument if we want immigrants we have to find the money to pay for the infrastructure,  if we cant or wont find the money for the infrastructure we have to limit the immigrants.

Please note I am not saying which of the 2 options we should follow just that we need to do something because we cannot keep going like we are.

But we would need to find the money to upgrade the infrastructure anyway and I believe reports indicate that immigration has had a beneficial effect on our economy which if true means that immigrants are not costing us any money overall.

Good evening Irn Bru.

If that's what you want to believe about immigration then do so.But not everyone thinks the same & immigration is one thing while creeping invasion is another.

Oh and should not the whole thing be dependent on what the majority of the electorate want done anyway?

sphinx wrote:If our population was static why would we have to upgrade the infrastructure?  We would need to maintain it and we might consider improving it but there would be no need for upgrade.

I am talking about meeting the predictions the government gets on things like school places - there are people whose job it is to look at population trends and say right in 5 years time that power cut means there will be 10% more children needing a school place so we need to make sure we have the buildings equipments and personnel to meet this increased demand.  This is not being done.  Or rather the planners are going well we are going to have between x and y numbers of immigrants which means there will be this much extra demand for maternity beds, this much for GPs, this much for school places but we have not got the money to open another maternity unit, or employ another GP or build a new school so the demands will have to be from our current resources.  This means that there will be this number of women now giving birth in the waiting room, people will have to wait this much longer for GP appointments, and more children will have to fit into the same room but hey we can manage.

Your not suggesting a solution like China are you where they are restricted to one child? (under review)

sphinx wrote:Yeah yeah we have heard it all before - there wont be large numbers because they are already working in other EU countries yada yada yada  - then there are large numbers.

Again central point of my argument if we want immigrants we have to find the money to pay for the infrastructure,  if we cant or wont find the money for the infrastructure we have to limit the immigrants.

Please note I am not saying which of the 2 options we should follow just that we need to do something because we cannot keep going like we are.

No you haven't heard it all before, this is the first time it has happened. When we opened our borders to Poland, we were the only country that was doing so at that time.

Shady wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

But we would need to find the money to upgrade the infrastructure anyway and I believe reports indicate that immigration has had a beneficial effect on our economy which if true means that immigrants are not costing us any money overall.

Good evening Irn Bru.

If that's what you want to believe about immigration then do so.But not everyone thinks the same & immigration is one thing while creeping invasion is another.

Yep, they have been saying that for hundreds of years about everyone who has come here.