Paris Shootings

by Cass Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

Oh dear god....this breaks my heart.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/13/world/paris-shooting/index.html

by Raggamuffin Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:41 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It could be a deterrent, depending on whether Islamic terrorists care what happens to their bodies after death or not.

We should not be openly seen to be as unethical as the extremists are, as then the view to champion peace over their extremism becomes redundent by such a measure and will in fact end up drawing more Muslims to their cause. as again it will be played off as evidence to a fabricated claim that the west is trying to destroy Islam. hence why such a policy would be an attack on islam itself denying burield rights to believers.
If though the religious leaders classified them as apsotates for their unislamic beliefs that conflict with islam, then it would actually help deligitimize terrorists as Muslims. When you think about if, if backed by a the Muslim authorities, it would further be a united stance that would deny extremists being classified as Muslims

Difficult to judge but again it would need a islamic rulling which would deem them as apostates, due to their unislamic beliefs.

You didn't seem to have a problem with the concept of using the body parts of Palestinian terrorists, and that concept was in part a kind of "punishment", was it not?

by Original Quill Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:42 pm

Cass wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It could be a deterrent, depending on whether Islamic terrorists care what happens to their bodies after death or not.

If someone is willing to die for a cause, they already believe that their souls will be their reward, desecration to their remains will only enrage those left behind.

My thought exactly: if they care at all, by desecrating bodies you would martyr them. Raggs, western ideas and values (of deterrence) have no meaning to non-westerners.

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:44 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

If the view taughis centralized that such views are fundementally wrong. Then yes it would make a huge difference on the religious conscience of many Muslims. it is then going to create more promotin of peace and also more condemning any violence. At present where one act of terror is condemned and another goes unchallenged, then the condemnation becomes void and hypocritical. So if you have many Muslims belief such views are wrong then support will fall dramatically for extremist ideals. it is taking anyway any justification found in the faith and thus deligitimizing extremists as Muslims
Religion itself based on a literal belief can have a very powerful affect through endorsement of religious authorities. Take an opposite example with the call for the crusades.
literal believers who justify hate and violence are then left with being ostracized by the Muslim community throughout the world at large. At the monent when other hate and violence goes unchallenged, thenislam then reamins conflicting through an uncentralised authority.

It still wouldn't make a difference. ISIS are Muslims, despite the denials by someone on here. However, they are not just Muslims, they are a group of people who want power and to exert their will. Telling them that they're "wrong" is not suddenly going to make them change their minds. They don't care if other Muslims condemn them - they're targeting a lot of Muslims anyway.

Again being denied Muslim status and denied recognition as islamic would very much deny them the means to draw and recruit many Muslims to recruit ans those that approve of the violent means used by the extremists. Once something is classified as unislamic which would mean stipulating any murdereous acts as wrong and unjustified. Then it denies the extremists justification and support widespread through the Muslim world to violenyt acts against innocent people
You need to understand how much emphasis and belief Muslims place around a literal belief
If you are fundementally denousing all violence, then what do the extremists then have to justify their violent and what would then be seen as very much unislamic
It would have a very powerful effect, just like if terrorists were denied Muslim status on being killed guilty or a mudereous act

by Cass Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:45 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Cass wrote:

If someone is willing to die for a cause, they already believe that their souls will be their reward, desecration to their remains will only enrage those left behind.

I don't know how an Islamic terrorist thinks, so I don't know if they would care or not.

I think anybody regardless of who they are and where they come from would be mightily angry if someone desecrated a body of one of their family.

I don't know how any terrorist thinks, I can't understand how anyone can ever get to that point where they are willing to give up their lives, but I can see perhaps why they would feel that way and how they get sucked in.

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:46 pm

Lord Foul wrote:here ya go didge...you asked where all these "syrian terrorists were" in threads on the refugees

well here's one of em at least

Two passports are reported to have been recovered from the eight assailants - one from Syria and the other from Egypt.

from http://news.sky.com/story/1587719/one-bomber-was-french-man-with-is-links

Good grief, I was just about to say I hope that like 9/11 and Charlie Hebdo they don't conveniently find passports! Oh my!

That #Syrian passport found in #ParisAttacks was lost in Greece ´s Kos island , police reports. Owner still in Kos

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:48 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

We should not be openly seen to be as unethical as the extremists are, as then the view to champion peace over their extremism becomes redundent by such a measure and will in fact end up drawing more Muslims to their cause. as again it will be played off as evidence to a fabricated claim that the west is trying to destroy Islam. hence why such a policy would be an attack on islam itself denying burield rights to believers.
If though the religious leaders classified them as apsotates for their unislamic beliefs that conflict with islam, then it would actually help deligitimize terrorists as Muslims. When you think about if, if backed by a the Muslim authorities, it would further be a united stance that would deny extremists being classified as Muslims

Difficult to judge but again it would need a islamic rulling which would deem them as apostates, due to their unislamic beliefs.

You didn't seem to have a problem with the concept of using the body parts of Palestinian terrorists, and that concept was in part a kind of "punishment", was it not?

As the majority of the body still ends up being buried through islamic rituals, it has no relevance to your point. Which clearly you did not read my later point either as i gave two sides to this.
If the view was that a body must have all parts, then many Muslims who have died in modern conflicts, would certainly be denied then by their own belief system no chance of entering their mythical heaven

by Raggamuffin Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:48 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It still wouldn't make a difference. ISIS are Muslims, despite the denials by someone on here. However, they are not just Muslims, they are a group of people who want power and to exert their will. Telling them that they're "wrong" is not suddenly going to make them change their minds. They don't care if other Muslims condemn them - they're targeting a lot of Muslims anyway.

Again being denied Muslim status and denied recognition as islamic would very much deny them the means to draw and recruit many Muslims to recruit ans those that approve of the violent means used by the extremists. Once something is classified as unislamic which would mean stipulating any murdereous acts as wrong and unjustified. Then it denies the extremists justification and support widespread through the Muslim world to violenyt acts against innocent people
You need to understand how much emphasis and belief Muslims place around a literal belief
If you are fundementally denousing all violence, then what do the extremists then have to justify their violent and what would then be seen as very much unislamic
It would have a very powerful effect, just like if terrorists were denied Muslim status on being killed guilty or a mudereous act

Murderous acts are already classified as unIslamic isn't it? That's what some Muslims say anyway. Besides, some of them call it retaliation, not murder.

by Raggamuffin Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:49 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You didn't seem to have a problem with the concept of using the body parts of Palestinian terrorists, and that concept was in part a kind of "punishment", was it not?

As the majority of the body still ends up being buried through islamic rituals, it has no relevance to your point. Which clearly you did not read my later point either as i gave two sides to this.
If the view was that a body must have all parts, then many Muslims who have died in modern conflicts, would certainly be denied then by their own belief system no chance of entering their mythical heaven

Well anyway, I don't approve of using pigs in this manner. They're too good for that, dead or not.

by Victorismyhero Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:50 pm

OK quill...

firstly NO MORE allowed in...FOR ANY REASON

pull up the drawbridge as far as THEY are concerned.

secondly, clearly islam is evil, in as much as it is being used to justify evil

now one could say the same about the other "abrahamic" religions but they are not promoting evil HERE....in europe (if they do elsewhere then thats up to that country to duly deal with it)

therefor personally I would ban its practice and the practice of all its tenets here ....and deport/remove statehood from ANYONE who "kicked off"

as to the "practicality" of that...I dunno....I doubt it could be done in anyway other than being very uncilvilised
and of course its against the convention on human rights Paris Shootings - Page 3 2190311264

but is that going to be any worse than the inevitable consequence of a nation "finally having enough" and the
population turning nasty about things

I think it has to go down the line of "passive resistance" and minor "delegitimisation" of islam
by that i mean remove ALL "pandered" "rights"

like halal...ban it
islamic clothing ...especially womens....ban it
time out at work for "prayers"...nope...
sharia banks nope

as to the rest...well folks will have to do their own peaceful bit...boycotts come to mind...
the blank face
ignore

by Raggamuffin Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:50 pm

Cass wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't know how an Islamic terrorist thinks, so I don't know if they would care or not.

I think anybody regardless of who they are and where they come from would be mightily angry if someone desecrated a body of one of their family.

I don't know how any terrorist thinks, I can't understand how anyone can ever get to that point where they are willing to give up their lives, but I can see perhaps why they would feel that way and how they get sucked in.

You mean give up their lives after murdering a load of other people. Let's not forget that they generally do that first.

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:52 pm

Cass wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't know how an Islamic terrorist thinks, so I don't know if they would care or not.

I think anybody regardless of who they are and where they come from would be mightily angry if someone desecrated a body of one of their family.

I don't know how any terrorist thinks, I can't understand how anyone can ever get to that point where they are willing to give up their lives, but I can see perhaps why they would feel that way and how they get sucked in.

Hi me lady

It would be denying them being seens as human to be buried or even Muslims
Do not get me wrong, we should bury all those who die, no matter their crimes, but such a policy through an endorement within islam itself would have a powerful demoralizing effect on those carrying out terrorist acts. These extremists do not follow any ethical views and to diminish their abilities to commit acts of terror should be reasoned over. The problem is that the religion teaches a view that the best way to enter heaven is for dying fighting for islam. Which kind of places a beleif system that places a human life of little significane based on what is promised in their claim to an after life. Denying dead terrorists their Muslim status could be very powerful weapon.

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:54 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

Again being denied Muslim status and denied recognition as islamic would very much deny them the means to draw and recruit many Muslims to recruit ans those that approve of the violent means used by the extremists. Once something is classified as unislamic which would mean stipulating any murdereous acts as wrong and unjustified. Then it denies the extremists justification and support widespread through the Muslim world to violenyt acts against innocent people
You need to understand how much emphasis and belief Muslims place around a literal belief
If you are fundementally denousing all violence, then what do the extremists then have to justify their violent and what would then be seen as very much unislamic
It would have a very powerful effect, just like if terrorists were denied Muslim status on being killed guilty or a mudereous act

Murderous acts are already classified as unIslamic isn't it? That's what some Muslims say anyway. Besides, some of them call it retaliation, not murder.

as seen the condemnation is not universal from the same people.
As they faIL to condemn where like for example the Jordanians glorified the terrorist who shot and killed
It fails to condemn those who stab jews, where instead you have political and religious people actually justify such violence and hate. So at present there is no uniformed denouncement and as such is meaningless untill all acts of violence and hate are condemned.

by Raggamuffin Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:56 pm

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Murderous acts are already classified as unIslamic isn't it? That's what some Muslims say anyway. Besides, some of them call it retaliation, not murder.

as seen the condemnation is not universal from the same people.
As they faIL to condemn where like for example the Jordanians glorified the terrorist who shot and killed
It fails to condemn those who stab jews, where instead you have political and religious people actually justify such violence and hate. So at present there is no uniformed denouncement and as such is meaningless untill all acts of violence and hate are condemned.

You will never get universal condemnation for anything. You can't even get it on this forum, so there's not much chance of getting the entire world to agree.

by Victorismyhero Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:56 pm

Cass wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:and Enochs nightmare comes one step closer
Bull....this is history coming back to bite the West in the ass.....why the hell no one can see that is beyond me.

you clearly have either never read, or if you have , never understood the meaning of what he was saying

he makes little attempt to give reasons...merely the consequences of "reckless immigration"

regardless of causes and more importantly regardless of the religion/race.....the results will be the same.....(actually history would have proved him wrong if it wasnt for islam and immigration from those countries....the "black man" has never posed a greater threat than "the white man" in similar circumstances Rolling Eyes

)

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:57 pm

Didge wrote:
Cass wrote:

I think anybody regardless of who they are and where they come from would be mightily angry if someone desecrated a body of one of their family.

I don't know how any terrorist thinks, I can't understand how anyone can ever get to that point where they are willing to give up their lives, but I can see perhaps why they would feel that way and how they get sucked in.

Hi me lady

It would be denying them being seens as human to be buried or even Muslims
Do not get me wrong, we should bury all those who die, no matter their crimes, but such a policy through an endorement within islam itself would have a powerful demoralizing effect on those carrying out terrorist acts. These extremists do not follow any ethical views and to diminish their abilities to commit acts of terror should be reasoned over. The problem is that the religion teaches a view that the best way to enter heaven is for dying fighting for islam. Which kind of places a beleif system that places a human life of little significane based on what is promised in their claim to an after life. Denying dead terrorists their Muslim status could be very powerful weapon.

Sorry what i should have stated me lady, is that they are buried but without any islamic ritual, denying them in death being classified Muslim. It could very much be an effective deterrant

by Raggamuffin Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:59 pm

Are suicide bombers actually buried anyway? They'd have to find all the parts first.

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:00 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

as seen the condemnation is not universal from the same people.
As they faIL to condemn where like for example the Jordanians glorified the terrorist who shot and killed
It fails to condemn those who stab jews, where instead you have political and religious people actually justify such violence and hate. So at present there is no uniformed denouncement and as such is meaningless untill all acts of violence and hate are condemned.

You will never get universal condemnation for anything. You can't even get it on this forum, so there's not much chance of getting the entire world to agree.

From the majority important religious leaders and scholars is required to be uniformed, otherwise any condemnation they make whilst allowing others to go unchallenged, allows the problems to esclate and exist. hence why it is very important for the Muslim world to start taking back their religion from extremists and to do this would mean denouncing all violence. once it is many of the important religious leaders doing so, then yes it will have a vast effect, but they have to condemn all which at present they do not

by Victorismyhero Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:13 pm

sassy wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:here ya go didge...you asked where all these "syrian terrorists were" in threads on the refugees

well here's one of em at least

Two passports are reported to have been recovered from the eight assailants - one from Syria and the other from Egypt.

from http://news.sky.com/story/1587719/one-bomber-was-french-man-with-is-links

Good grief, I was just about to say I hope that like 9/11 and Charlie Hebdo they don't conveniently find passports! Oh my!

That #Syrian passport found in #ParisAttacks was lost in Greece ´s Kos island , police reports. Owner still in Kos

oh of course sassy, i mean, we couldnt possibly have anything that might blame one of your precious refugees could we.....

how many more of them are there ...out there lurking and waiting their orders.....

by Syl Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:13 pm

Carnage.
RIP the many dead, and thoughts go out to the critically wounded, the injured and their families.

by Victorismyhero Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:44 pm

Europe-wide minute of silence

People across the continent are being invited to join a one minute silence in memory of the Paris attack victims at noon on Monday (16 November).

A joint statement from EU leaders said: "France is a great and strong nation. Its values of liberty, equality and fraternity inspired and inspire the European Union.

"Today we stand united with the French people and the Government of France. This shameful act of terrorism will only achieve the opposite of its purpose, which was to divide, frighten, and sow hatred.

"Good is stronger than evil.

Firstly, They are WRONG...history shows that for the greater part regimes that are objectively "evil" have been the norm, rather than the exception

Everything that can be done at European level to make France safe will be done. We will do what is necessary to defeat extremism, terrorism and hatred."

secondly...YEAH right...Germany is REALLY helping here well done Merkel

from http://news.sky.com/story/1587380/live-france-reels-from-co-ordinated-attacks

by Original Quill Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:53 pm

Lord Foul wrote:OK quill...

firstly NO MORE allowed in...FOR ANY REASON

pull up the drawbridge as far as THEY are concerned.

secondly, clearly islam is evil, in as much as it is being used to justify evil

now one could say the same about the other "abrahamic" religions but they are not promoting evil HERE....in europe (if they do elsewhere then thats up to that country to duly deal with it)

therefor personally I would ban its practice and the practice of all its tenets here ....and deport/remove statehood from ANYONE who "kicked off"

as to the "practicality" of that...I dunno....I doubt it could be done in anyway other than being very uncilvilised
and of course its against the convention on human rights

but is that going to be any worse than the inevitable consequence of a nation "finally having enough" and the
population turning nasty about things

I think it has to go down the line of "passive resistance" and minor "delegitimisation" of islam
by that i mean remove ALL "pandered" "rights"

like halal...ban it
islamic clothing ...especially womens....ban it
time out at work for "prayers"...nope...
sharia banks nope

as to the rest...well folks will have to do their own peaceful bit...boycotts come to mind...
the blank face
ignore

So what I’m hearing is:

1. No immigration.
2. Ban certain belief systems, and religious practices thereon.
3. Ban Islamic clothing.
4. Ban Islamic banks.
5. Otherwise, a passive aggressive approach of shunning toward Muslims.
6. Not sure, but did I hear “ban convention on civil rights”?

(After you have established this precedent, may I suggest the same toward Latter Day Saints? They are not Christians and I’m not even sure they are Abrahamic. They appear to be a cult based upon loose ideas that bear a similarity to the Bible…sort of like the Branch Davidians, only cross out the Trinity.)

Wow! No immigration. Should America pass this for Europeans?

What other belief systems should be banned? Well…communists, to be sure. How about capitalists? We would be a lot better off if we just didn’t allow anyone to discuss it.

Clothing…well, we could ask Calvin Klein to design heather gray uniforms for all to wear. They could have western collars, no vests, and definitely tight-fitting pants. Absolutely no covering on the head…we want our god to be able to see our thoughts.

Banks? Just Islamic banks? Wouldn’t it be a lot cheaper if we banned all banks? Then we wouldn’t have to bail them out. In 2011, the five largest banks held 48 percent of total system assets. Four banks had total assets in excess of $1 trillion, and the largest commercial bank—JPMorgan Chase Bank—had $1.8 trillion of assets, equal to 14 percent of the total assets of all U.S. commercial banks. And when you think about it, any bank is going to have to deal with the Arabs—look at all that oil. So…there’s the stink, let right back in the door.

Shun all Islamic types. Hmmm… But they can’t wear Islamic clothes. They can’t worship in Mosques. They don’t hang out in Arab banks. I assume the ban extends to coffee shops. So, how can you tell? They all drive taxis and sell snow cones in Central Park. Does that mean no taxis or snow cones?

We could go running around looking for Muslims to shun, and when we find one...look the other way.

Paris Shootings - Page 3 Shunning-274x300

Paris Shootings - Page 3 Shunning-274x300

Sounds complicated.

by Ben Reilly Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:45 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/live-blog-fatalities-reported-after-explosion-shootout-in-paris-214128710.html?nf=1 wrote:The Muslim American Society of Charlotte released a statement Saturday condemning the attacks in Paris, Beirut and Baghdad.

This organization, which was established in 2006, is dedicated conveying “Islam with the utmost clarity.” It called the terrorist attacks “horrific acts of violence and inhumane activity.”

“It is clear that ISIS not only represents everything contrary to Islam, but also everything contrary to humanity,” the statement reads. “Their acts are indiscriminate of race, religion or region. They attack Muslim and non-Muslim, alike. Humanity must band together and stop all forms of violence and injustice regardless of the perpetrator. Our prayers and condolences go out to the families of all the victims and survivors. May God help bring peace and justice to the world.”

by Victorismyhero Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:04 pm

or of course quill the alternative will be a solidly r/w fascist govt arising that WILL throw you precious civil rights in the bin

how long do you think it will be...how many more (of our own people) will lefty policies kill, before the people get fed up of you nancy pants, and decide to DO something (nor saying it will be right...just saying it may happen)....

see YOU see me as "archetypical R/W" and I'm not...I dont want the Nazi bastards in any more than you .....

BUTyou aint the solution...you are part of the problem

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:06 pm

Muslims Around the World Condemn Paris Attacks

Outpouring of grief shared by people of all faiths and no faith.

One CIA estimate puts ISIS' total manpower at 31,500, about one-third the capacity of Rose Bowl stadium, or roughly, 0.0019% of the world's total Muslim population when rounding down to 1.6 billion. The idea that the remaining 1,599,965,000 Muslims ought to jump on Twitter and condemn ISIS isn't just silly, it's a definition of prejudice. But here we are. Another attack, another round of people calling on moderate Muslims to condemn something they had nothing to do with. Or as Mohamed Ghilan tweeted last year:

Paris Shootings - Page 3 Amzn_favicon_wht

Shop ▾

Click to enlarge.

Nevertheless, Muslims from around the world are making it clear ISIS does not represent their values.

Iran's Supreme Leader Hassan Rouhani denounced the attacks, postponing his trip to Europe to renew peace talks on the Syrian conflict. Iran and Iran-backed Hezbollah fight ISIS and other extremists in Syria (as well as non-Salafists).

The day before the Paris attacks, militants claiming allegiance to ISIS bombed a civilian area of Beirut in an effort to undermine Hezbollah's support there.

Joko "Jokowi" Widodo, the president of Indonesia, the largest Muslim country on earth, roundly condemned the attacks, telling reporters, "Indonesia condemns the violence that took place in Paris." In a now-viral video on YouTube, a Moroccan man expressed his condolences to the victims, saying, "These so-called jihadists only represent themselves."

Arab states Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Kuwait, Qatar and Egypt have all condemned the attacks, though it should be noted, the unelected rulers who run the Saudi Kingdom and Qatar have routinely funded and armed jihadists in Syria.

The largest Muslim group in the United States, CAIR, quickly condemned the attacks, insisting, "These savage and despicable attacks on civilians, whether they occur in Paris, Beirut or any other city, are outrageous and without justification." The US Council of Muslim Organizations released a statement also condemning the attack.

Thousands more Muslims took to Twitter to express sorrow, solidarity and solace. A good breakdown can be seen here and here.

We will update this post as more information comes in.

http://www.alternet.org/media/Muslims-around-world-are-condemning-paris-attacks

Muslims Around the World Speak Out Against Terrorist Attacks in Paris

'Terrorism has no religion'

Before the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria had even claimed responsibility for the shootings and explosions that killed more than 120 in Paris on Friday night, Muslims around the world took to social media to condemn the perpetrators and defend Islam as a faith of nonviolence.
The bloodshed was linked to Islamic extremists early on, following reports that the perpetrators had referred to French policy towards Muslims and screamed “Allahu Akbar” during the attacks. President François Hollande officially named ISIS as the group behind what he called an “act of war” just before noon local time.

Several Muslim religious and political leaders officially denounced the attacks before the group took responsibility, including Iranian president Hassan Rouhani, who called them a “crime against humanity,” and Qatari foreign minister Khaled al-Attiyah, who said they were “heinous.” Rouhani had been scheduled to visit France as part of a wider European trip this weekend but has postponed his plans.

My name is Hamad. I am a #Muslim. I condemn the #ParisAttacks & with me Over 1.57 Billion Muslims do. Terrorists have no religion. #paris

I am an American Muslim and I apologize for the terrorist attacks in Paris. That is not Islam. ISLAM IS PEACE.

http://time.com/4112830/Muslims-paris-terror-attacks-islam-condemn/

Many other tweets from Muslims saying the same, including the Mum of a 7 yr old girl who says she is frightened to go out 'because people will hate Muslims now'.
Indonesian President Joko Widodo, leader of the world’s most populous Muslim nation, said that”Indonesia condemns the violence that took place in Paris.”
More spirited responses came from ordinary people. On Twitter, many referred to the hashtag #TerrorismHasNoReligion, seeking divorce Islam from the dogma espoused by extremists.

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:11 pm

Muslim clerics and political leaders are publicly condemning the Paris terrorist attacks after Francois Hollande announced that extremist group Islamic State (Isis) was responsible for the atrocities.

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani called the attacks a "crime against humanity" and Qatari Foreign Minister Khaled al-Attiyah, who said they were "heinous". Rouhani had been scheduled to visit France as part of a wider European trip this weekend, but has postponed his plans.

Reaction from world leaders

Indonesian President Joko Widodo, leader of the world's most populous Muslim nation, said that "Indonesia condemns the violence that took place in Paris."

Leaders of Arab states have called the attacks immoral and inhumane, according to the Associated Press. Qatar's foreign minister Khaled al-Attiyah denounced the "heinous attacks" adding "these acts, which target stability and security in France are against all human and moral values".

Kuwaiti leader Emir Sheikh Sabah al-Sabah called the attacks "criminal acts of terrorism which run counter to all teachings of holy faith and humanitarian values" while the Saudi foreign ministry called for global cooperation to "root out this dangerous and destructive plague".

"Humanity has witnessed tonight the horror, violence that we witness in this geography almost each day. I would like to express that such attacks have not been carried against a single country, region or continent, but the whole humanity, which accepts peace as a value and dignifies humanitarian values on Earth", said Mehmet Görmez, head of Turkey's Presidency of Religious Affairs – the highest ranking Islamic cleric in the country.

Tariq Ramadan, an academic renowned for his Islamic studies, said that a united front should be established against such without alienating or radicalizing French Muslims in a post published on his Facebook page. "These acts are the result of the minds inhabited by the worst, or minds without minds, manipulated or manipulators," he wrote.

Tariq Ramadan (official)
Author · 1,717,205 Likes
· 16 hrs ·
Paris, the attacks ...
While facing this horror, this blind violence, the killings and massacres in the streets of the French capital, our first thought goes to the victims, the injured, their families and friends. To them and to everyone, our condolences and the testimony of our sympathy.
Absolute and immediate condemnation. They shouted, we are told, "Allahu akbar" (God [is] the greatest) to support and justify their inhuman actions. With this they told a lie and a truth. Their lie is related to Islam and its message as not even one of its teachings, ever, can justify their actions. These acts are the result of the minds inhabited by the worst, or minds without minds, manipulated or manipulators. The truth is that God, yes, in His grace, His love and His compassion is greater than their killing madness and that Islam will never end up being equated or amalgamated with their extremist violence.
The right reaction in France would be to join forces, to set a united front. A true united front with the government and all the institutions eventually understanding that the French Muslim citizens are trully part of it : they are not those alien "objects of analysis." Finally the problem of the fractured national unity is deep and it is upstream of the attacks that, together, we need more work and education. To build together the future and not to react to tragedies. A united front also means the refusal, in the short and long term, of the political instrumentalization of these heinous attacks. This would be a victory, but alas, we already hear the whispers of predatory voices proving that, on this front, the defeat is consumed.

Islamic State (Isis) supporters use of the hashtag #باريس_تشتعل (Paris burns) to spread the news, leading many to conclude the attackers were Muslim.
While the Islamic group Isis has claimed responsibility for the attacks, Muslims around the world took to social media to condemn the perpetrators and defend Islam as a faith of nonviolence.

On Twitter, many referred to the hashtag #TerrorismHasNoReligion, seeking to separate Islam from the dogma adopted by extremists.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/paris-attacks-Muslims-around-world-react-islamic-state-massacre-1528759

Thousands joined in.

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:17 pm

That you for just validating my point Bern

So we see that ISIS is not acceptable, but stabbing Jews is accetable, as is chanting death to Aemerica off a falsified belief that the US is the great Satan. Thus teaching a fuindemental racist belief against Americans, of which is also acceptable when hating Israeli/Jews. No condemnation of Moroccans carrying out mock executions of Jews and no condemnation of the 3000 Jordanians praising a terrorist who murdered people. nothing to condemn Hamas, Fatah and the PLO leadership who have glorified terrorists who have murdered Israeli Jews. Thus treating murderers as heroes..

Like i say, if a religious group fails to condemn all violence done in the belief it is justified in Islam. Then their views to just condemning some groups whilst excusing others makes their view to conden ISIS utterly redundent. As they turn the other cheek, when they view murdering people they have dehumanised, acceptable to kill.Its fine to be objectional, protest, be critical, but hate, just further implicates the many problems that islam has with core beliefs. As I say, the rule should apply to any acts of terror where people are murdered. If they fail to condemn or evebn worse condemn those who have glorified m murderers, then they are not distancing themselves from ISIS at all. It has to be parity to condemn.

Like i say. the only way that islam can be seperated from extremist views, is if peace is at the forefront of its messages from the religious scholars and that denounce any violent murders through terrorism. Like I say, it is Muslims themselves that have failed to address this fundemental problem, because sadly through the religious text, they view israel as occupied and thus believe you can fight people occupying a land, and thus believe are justified to murder them. Is that really any different to the views of ISIS, when both are using the same fundemental belief that endorses violence?

Sorry Ben, its time Muslims starting winning back the hearts and minds of Muslims by reasoning that Islam is about peace and not violence and that it becomes its central message. Which can only be believed when ever any violent hateful views are endorsed or acted on are condemned.

This is the problem with the Abrahamic faiths where they have a written jealous angry, insecure deity that places much emphases on hate, revenge and violence to come to those who simply do not believe. That in itself shows how people can easily justfiy such murder and terrorism against innocent civillians
have a good evening

by Ben Reilly Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:30 pm

Didge wrote:That you for just validating my point Bern

So we see that ISIS is not acceptable, but stabbing Jews is accetable, as is chanting death to Aemerica off a falsified belief that the US is the great Satan. Thus teaching a fuindemental racist belief against Americans, of which is also acceptable when hating Israeli/Jews. No condemnation of Moroccans carrying out mock executions of Jews and no condemnation of the 3000 Jordanians praising a terrorist who murdered people. nothing to condemn Hamas, Fatah and the PLO leadership who have glorified terrorists who have murdered Israeli Jews. Thus treating murderers as heroes..

Like i say, if a religious group fails to condemn all violence done in the belief it is justified in Islam. Then their views to just condemning some groups whilst excusing others makes their view to conden ISIS utterly redundent. As they turn the other cheek, when they view murdering people they have dehumanised, acceptable to kill.Its fine to be objectional, protest, be critical, but hate, just further implicates the many problems that islam has with core beliefs. As I say, the rule should apply to any acts of terror where people are murdered. If they fail to condemn or evebn worse condemn those who have glorified m murderers, then they are not distancing themselves from ISIS at all. It has to be parity to condemn.

Like i say. the only way that islam can be seperated from extremist views, is if peace is at the forefront of its messages from the religious scholars and that denounce any violent murders through terrorism. Like I say, it is Muslims themselves that have failed to address this fundemental problem, because sadly through the religious text, they view israel as occupied and thus believe you can fight people occupying a land, and thus believe are justified to murder them. Is that really any different to the views of ISIS, when both are using the same fundemental belief that endorses violence?

Sorry Ben, its time Muslims starting winning back the hearts and minds of Muslims by reasoning that Islam is about peace and not violence and that it becomes its central message. Which can only be believed when ever any violent hateful views are endorsed or acted on are condemned.

This is the problem with the Abrahamic faiths where they have a written jealous angry, insecure deity that places much emphases on hate, revenge and violence to come to those who simply do not believe. That in itself shows how people can easily justfiy such murder and terrorism against innocent civillians
have a good evening

I don't think it's reasonable to expect peaceful Muslims to maintain a running commentary of condemnation of every evil act done in the name of Islam. I would hate to be expected to log on somewhere and condemn every bad thing the U.S. does simply because I'm an American.

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:41 pm

I see you fail to grasp the point or understand again that the attacks and murder of Jews has been going on for over a month.
poor deflection and the point is to be very vocal on condemning all views that validate the extremist stance. How on earth do you think extremism will be eradicated if that within the same groups that condemn some violence are silent on others?

Where is the countless US Muslim groups condemning Jews being murdered?

Where is the c condemnation and correction to disqualify murderers from being Martyrs?

Anyway have to go, but Ben, we need to stop kidding ourselves on this a massive part of the problem is how easily the hateful and violence acts can be justified and glorified, through just a different way to look at the text.

The only way that Islam can cut off any link to any Islamic extremism, is to condemn all such violence and like I say, champion promoting peace

Cheers

by Victorismyhero Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:20 pm

bang in accordance with the tenets of islam in general....as opposed to a twisted ideology

IS didn’t target buildings but activities, simple ordinary activities enjoyed by hundreds of millions worldwide. Eating out, drinking in bars, listening to music, watching football.

For IS the Bataclan theatre was not hosting a rock concert for instance but a "profligate prostitution party" attended by "hundreds of pagan apostates".

from http://news.sky.com/story/1587810/is-shifts-strategy-with-soft-target-spectacular

and we all know what islam has to say about pagans dont we....

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:34 pm

British Muslim Communities Send A Message Of Solidarity. #WeAreAllParisians

14 November 2015
A statement of solidarity from British Muslim communities.

We are profoundly saddened by the loss of innocent lives in Paris, and our deepest condolences are with the family and friends of the victims, and the French nation.

Britons of all backgrounds, of every faith, every denomination, and none, are horrified by what we have learned, and are determined that those who seek to divide our diverse and peaceful communities in Europe will not succeed.

There is no justification for murder, and all British faith communities agree that those who commit acts of violence cannot do so in the name of any faith. Any such claim is illegitimate.

British Muslim communities are equally appalled by the violence, and angered by those who commit abhorrent acts in the name of religion. The perpetrators do not represent us; their views are perverse and self-serving.

We urge all communities in Britain and France to stand firm with compassion and solidarity. We must not let these terrorists divide us, otherwise the terrorists will win. Let us not play into their divisive narrative, and instead show them that people of all faiths and none can live peacefully, together.

Like the terrorists who want to divide communities, there will be some in the days ahead who will try to use this atrocity to attack innocent people. We equally reject their intentions.

It is evil people who do evil things; such acts will only increase our resolve to remain united.

Signed:
-Aamer Naeem, Editor in Chief, British Muslim TV
-Abdul Buhari, 2012 GB Olympic Athlete
-Adil Mohammed Javed (British Muslim Actor), CEO & Artistic Director, Alchemy Arts
-Akeela Ahmed, Equalities Campaigner
-Alnoor Samji
-Arif Zaman
-Ayatullah Sayed Fazel Milani, Al-Khoei Foundation
-Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, Co-Chair, APPG on Islamophobia
-Caroline Lucas MP, Member of Parliament for Brighton Pavilion
-Chaudhary Shafique, Chairman, Council For Christian Muslim Relations, High Wycombe
-Cllr. Hashim Bhatti, Windsor, Executive Member of Conservative Muslim Forum, & Three Faiths Forum Alumni Board
-Cllr. M Aslam Choudry, London Borough of Brent
-Dawood Masood, Quba Trust
-Dilwar Hussain, Director, New Horizons
-Dr. Akber Mohamedali, President, The Council of European Jamaats
-Dr. Asgar Moledina, President, The World Federation of KSIMC
-Dr. Chris Allen, University of Birmingham
-Dr. Imran Awan, Birmingham City University
-Dr. Masood Yousef, Wales Institute for Muslim Affairs/Sefydliad Materion Mwslemaidd Cymru
-Dr. Shuja Shafi, Secretary General, Muslim Council of Britain
-Dr. Waqar Azmi OBE, Chairman, Remembering Srebrenica
-Esmat Jeraj, Hyderi Islamic Centre
-Esmond Rosen, Chair of Barnet Multi-Faith Forum
-Fahim Mazhary, Consultant, Al Manaar, British Muslim Heritage Centre
-Fiyaz Mughal OBE, Founder & Director, Faith Matters & Tell MAMA
-Harris Iqbal, Head of Operations, Khadeejah Welfare Foundation
-Hayyan Ayaz Bhabha, Secretary, APPG on Islamophobia
-Henna Rai, Director of Counter Extremism, AOBM, Kaleidoscope Arts Faith & Culture, & Women Against Radicalisation
-Iftikhar Awan, Chair, Independent Members, Cross-GovernmentWorking Group on Tackling Anti-Muslim Hatred
-Imam Abdullah Hasan, Imams Against Domestic Abuse (IADA)
-Imam Irfan Chishti, Manchester Central Mosque
-Imam Umar Hayat Qadri, Senior Imam, Ghousia Mosque Huddersfield
-Iqbal Bhana OBE, DL
-Jahan Mahmood, Military Historian
-Jawad Fairooz, Salam for Democracy & Human Rights
-Julie Siddiqi, Co-Chair, Nisa-Nashim Jewish and Muslim Women’s Network
-Karim Sacoor, Community Activist & Independent Member, Cross-Government Working Group on Tackling Anti-Muslim Hatred
-Khalid Mahmood MP, Member of Parliament for Birmingham Perry Barr
-Khurshid Drabu CBE
-Makhdoom Amjad Shah, Tv Anchor, Journalist & CEO, Overseas Pakistan Community
-Maulana Ahmed Nessar Beg, British Muslim Forum
-Mohammad Ehsan Rangiha, Chairman, Islamic Unity Society
-Mohammed Mojibul Hoque, Redcar Cleveland Islamic & Cultural Organisation
-Mohammed Shafiq, Chief Executive, Ramadhan Foundation
-Moulana Shahid Raza OBE, Head Imam, Leicester Central Mosque
-Moulana Shahid Reza, Mosques and Imams National Advisory Board
-Muddassar Ahmed, Patron, Faiths Forum for London
-Muhbeen Hussain, Founder & Director, British Muslim Youth
-Mustafa Field, Faiths Forum for London
-Nasar Iqbal, Founder & Operations Director, Innovate Walsall
-Naz Shah MP, Member of Parliament for Bradford West
-Nick Lowles, Hope Not Hate
-Peter Herbert, Chair, Society of Black Lawyers
-Qari Muhammad Asim, Senior Imam, Makkah Mosque Leeds
-Raheed Salam, Director, All Faiths and None
-Rimla Akhtar MBE, Equality Activist
-Saleha Islam, Director Al Manaar Muslim Cultural Heritage Centre
-Sayed Ali Abbas Razawi, Director General, Scottish Ahlul Bayt Society
-Sayed Ali Reza Rizvi, Markaz Ahlul Bayt Islamic Centre
-Shaykh M Shabbir Sialvi, Executive Imam, Golden Mosque, Rochdale
-Shaykh Muhammad Umar ibn Ramadhan, Chairman, Ramadhan Foundation
-Shaykh Talat, MCEC, Palmers Green Mosque
-Shaz Manir, CEO, Amirah Foundation
-Sheikh Mohammad Al-Hilli, Noor Trust, London
-Sir Iqbal Sacrani OBE, Balham Mosque & Tooting Islamic Centre
-Stuart Andrew MP, Chair, APPG on Islamophobia, Member of Parliament for Pudsey
-Sughra Ahmed, President, Islamic Society of Britain
-Sunder Katwala, Director, British Future
-Tamina Mir, Women Buzz Network
-Usama Hasan, Quilliam Foundation
-Yasmin Choudhury, Founder, Lovedesh & Amcariza Foundation
-Yasmin Qureshi MP, Member of Parliament for Bolton South East
-Yousef Dar, Chair, Community Safety Forum
-Zafar Khan, Chairman, Luton Council of Faiths
-Zulfikar Hasham, Community Activist

http://www.britishmuslimyouth.org.uk/british-Muslim-communities-send-a-message-of-solidarity-weareallparisians/

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:44 pm

Palestinians in Bethlehem, West Bank, fly the French flag in solidarity with #Paris. #ParisAttacks #PrayforParis
Paris Shootings - Page 3 CTzLgfYWoAE3aXj

Paris Shootings - Page 3 CTzLgfYWoAE3aXj

by Victorismyhero Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:51 pm

yes yes ...we know sassy

but then...given the potential back lash they WOULD say that wouldnt they (and in all honesty, who could blame them)

but then again how come THESE people speeak for "the majority" of Muslims....and iS dont

how do YOU know

but then you would pet a crock if it smiled.....

by Victorismyhero Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:52 pm

sassy wrote:Palestinians in Bethlehem, West Bank, fly the French flag in solidarity with #Paris. #ParisAttacks #PrayforParis

are you sure they didnt set light to it 30 seconds after that photo?...just being the cynic

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:56 pm

Absolutely sure. All my Palestinians friends say they now exactly how Paris feels, especially the ones in Gaza.

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:57 pm

Lord Foul wrote:yes yes ...we know sassy

but then...given the potential back lash they WOULD say that wouldnt they (and in all honesty, who could blame them)

but then again how come THESE people speeak for "the majority" of Muslims....and iS dont

how do YOU know

but then you would pet a crock if it smiled.....

Same way as I know underneath all the shit you write you are really quite nice Rolling Eyes

by Victorismyhero Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:01 pm

sassy wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:yes yes ...we know sassy

but then...given the potential back lash they WOULD say that wouldnt they (and in all honesty, who could blame them)

but then again how come THESE people speeak for "the majority" of Muslims....and iS dont

how do YOU know

but then you would pet a crock if it smiled.....

Same way as I know underneath all the shit you write you are really quite nice

really? you sure of that? depends what you define as "nice"

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:05 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
sassy wrote:

Same way as I know underneath all the shit you write you are really quite nice

really? you sure of that? depends what you define as "nice"

I'm sure. Me 'powers' tell me Twisted Evil

by Victorismyhero Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:07 pm

sassy wrote:Muslim clerics and political leaders are publicly condemning the Paris terrorist attacks after Francois Hollande announced that extremist group Islamic State (Isis) was responsible for the atrocities.

Iranian President Hassan Rouhani called the attacks a "crime against humanity" and Qatari Foreign Minister Khaled al-Attiyah, who said they were "heinous". Rouhani had been scheduled to visit France as part of a wider European trip this weekend, but has postponed his plans.

Reaction from world leaders

Indonesian President Joko Widodo, leader of the world's most populous Muslim nation, said that "Indonesia condemns the violence that took place in Paris."

Leaders of Arab states have called the attacks immoral and inhumane, according to the Associated Press. Qatar's foreign minister Khaled al-Attiyah denounced the "heinous attacks" adding "these acts, which target stability and security in France are against all human and moral values".

Kuwaiti leader Emir Sheikh Sabah al-Sabah called the attacks "criminal acts of terrorism which run counter to all teachings of holy faith and humanitarian values" while the Saudi foreign ministry called for global cooperation to "root out this dangerous and destructive plague".

"Humanity has witnessed tonight the horror, violence that we witness in this geography almost each day. I would like to express that such attacks have not been carried against a single country, region or continent, but the whole humanity, which accepts peace as a value and dignifies humanitarian values on Earth", said Mehmet Görmez, head of Turkey's Presidency of Religious Affairs – the highest ranking Islamic cleric in the country.

Tariq Ramadan, an academic renowned for his Islamic studies, said that a united front should be established against such without alienating or radicalizing French Muslims in a post published on his Facebook page. "These acts are the result of the minds inhabited by the worst, or minds without minds, manipulated or manipulators," he wrote.

Tariq Ramadan (official)
Author · 1,717,205 Likes
· 16 hrs ·
Paris, the attacks ...
While facing this horror, this blind violence, the killings and massacres in the streets of the French capital, our first thought goes to the victims, the injured, their families and friends. To them and to everyone, our condolences and the testimony of our sympathy.
Absolute and immediate condemnation. They shouted, we are told, "Allahu akbar" (God [is] the greatest) to support and justify their inhuman actions. With this they told a lie and a truth. Their lie is related to Islam and its message as not even one of its teachings, ever, can justify their actions. These acts are the result of the minds inhabited by the worst, or minds without minds, manipulated or manipulators. The truth is that God, yes, in His grace, His love and His compassion is greater than their killing madness and that Islam will never end up being equated or amalgamated with their extremist violence.

too late

The right reaction in France would be to join forces, to set a united front. A true united front with the government and all the institutions eventually understanding that the French Muslim citizens are trully part of it : they are not those alien "objects of analysis."

except THEY dont WANT the above....in every aspect they want THEIR way, their institutions to suit THEIR religious view (like sharia banks, sharia lawyers, halal, the bukah etc.) they wont integrate and instead form "ghettos" ...THEY even go out on the streets intimidating our youngsters on a night out....

moreover in almost every important aspect THEY refuse to accept basic human rights where is doesnt accord with their religious viewpoint....

Finally the problem of the fractured national unity is deep and it is upstream of the attacks that, together, we need more work and education. To build together the future and not to react to tragedies. A united front also means the refusal, in the short and long term, of the political instrumentalization of these heinous attacks. This would be a victory, but alas, we already hear the whispers of predatory voices proving that, on this front, the defeat is consumed.

Islamic State (Isis) supporters use of the hashtag #باريس_تشتعل (Paris burns) to spread the news, leading many to conclude the attackers were Muslim.
While the Islamic group Isis has claimed responsibility for the attacks, Muslims around the world took to social media to condemn the perpetrators and defend Islam as a faith of nonviolence.

On Twitter, many referred to the hashtag #TerrorismHasNoReligion, seeking to separate Islam from the dogma adopted by extremists.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/paris-attacks-Muslims-around-world-react-islamic-state-massacre-1528759

Thousands joined in.

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:08 pm

by Victorismyhero Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:09 pm

unfortunately sassy i really think that you are feeding the croc in the hope that it will eat you last

by Victorismyhero Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:25 pm

sassy wrote:

hmmmm....

I think......

thats very touching

she wants to be a citizen of the world

well perhaps she should burn her passport and all other documents of identity

then see how much the "world" wants her as a citizen..... Rolling Eyes

by Ben Reilly Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:50 pm

Lord Foul wrote:unfortunately sassy i really think that you are feeding the croc in the hope that it will eat you last

Color me shocked that you resort to black-and-white thinking as soon as a terrorist attack occurs. There's not going to be a simple solution to this no matter how hard simple people beg for it ... Wink

by Victorismyhero Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:04 pm

true ben...they will be no "easy way". at least not one that doesnt involve the death of 1000's of innocent people....

BUT if innocent lives are to be lost, I'd rather it was theirs than ours.

and

if the crocs get out of the river, the best quick fix is to build a fence to keep em outta your back yard while you figure a way to get em back into the river.....NOT invite em in....OR come to that...invite their lunch in.....

by Ben Reilly Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:13 pm

Lord Foul wrote:true ben...they will be no "easy way". at least not one that doesnt involve the death of 1000's of innocent people....

BUT if innocent lives are to be lost, I'd rather it was theirs than ours.

and

if the crocs get out of the river, the best quick fix is to build a fence to keep em outta your back yard while you figure a way to get em back into the river.....NOT invite em in....OR come to that...invite their lunch in.....

Yeah, but we're not actually talking about crocodiles, we're talking about human beings -- correct?

by Victorismyhero Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:17 pm

there's a difference?

by Guest Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:46 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
sassy wrote:Palestinians in Bethlehem, West Bank, fly the French flag in solidarity with #Paris. #ParisAttacks #PrayforParis

are you sure they didnt set light to it 30 seconds after that photo?...just being the cynic

Yet no such solidarity to the Charlie Hebdo terrorism

http://unitedwithisrael.org/hamas-praises-paris-terrorists/

And I see two people, wow

Again I will put it down to some decent palestinians against terrorism, because already a large proportion already justify terrorism through their religion against innocent people

Like I say all these annoucments are worthelss and hypocritical when they continue to refuse to condemn all terrorism against civillians. That they refuse to condemn those that glorify these terrorists. That they denounce these terrorists as actual murderers, who have no right to be classified martyrs

So they are in fact empty words, because these very same people move the goal posts to to then allow the justification of violence and hate acts. Which then makes them based on the same methodology as comparable to ISIS themselves. Hence why extremism has continued to thrive in the islamic world, because the message coming out is hypocritical, the worst double standards. With again a belief that any claim to an injustice to a Muslim, is then justifiable based off making hate acceptable to commit acts of terror. in both cases both ISIS and the Muslim religious leaders only differ on who they view and justify dehumanising which group of people with hate.

by Fuzzy Zack Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:19 am

sassy wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

You try not be dragged down to the gutter of extremism yourself.

It is moment like this that really challenge what you believe. You either believe it or become a hypocrite.

There will be retaliatory attacks against Muslims in France. But no one in the media will call that terrorism. Why? (That's a retorical question).

Didge is a racist, became one quite a while ago. If someone had said to him a couple of years ago 'Muslims have to condemn', he would have said 'why, do we ask Muslims to condemn when we never ask anyone else'. Do we ask all Americans to condemn when they kill civilians with drones? Do we ask all Britains to condemn when Blair killing thousands of Iraqi civilians? etc etc etc. He's a racist, through and through.

Les is in shock, and doing something Les doesn't normally do, reacting with a knee jerk.

It's not shock Sass. Shock is temporary. It's fear and we know it's a powerful motivator that drives us to do, say or think something we would not have done before we were fearful.

It's not just Didge or Les, I've seen it happen a few times since the Sky boards. Fortunately some have also realised that it's not about religion but how religion is abused by people. How? By using the same motivator: fear.

Primal emotions such as fear suppresses logic and reason and eventually erodes all the values we say we believe.

You're right about Didge and since I don't really know him it's actually quite comical to watch. Les is on the borderline. Just my honest opinion.

by Fuzzy Zack Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:23 am

Didge wrote:So sassy cannot answer any points and instead try to derail the thread making accusations on posters thus deflecting.

For sassy to answer

Is that the vast majority of religious leaders/scholars and political leaders who have condemn what these Jordanians did the other day?

Again what is being done is miniscule and a token jesture as constantly many things by groups are allowed to go unchallenged.

Your last point just sums up the fact you cannot counter what I am saying is true, because it is. As otheriwse you would not have a systematic belief found widespread throughout the Muslim world that promotes hate to both Israel and America. Where what is taught deligitimizes them. By doing this, you then allow for a belief that it is acceptable to attack innocent civillians etc, as you have classified the people of these nations as evil. fundemnetally dehumanizing them. You have opposition to problems, not a promotion of hate. be critical, not promote a view of hate and look what you and some of the left do in regards to your rhetoric of hate against Zionism, which is just another means of justifying hate of israel and many of its citzens.

We have seen of late what condemnations against Abbas and other Fatah and hamas leaders for promoting murderers as Martyrs and justifyiung their murdereous acts? So where is this condemnation which you should be able to show that is so vocal in every Muslim country condemning those murderers classified as Martyrs? Where they condemn the march in Morocco, where they created mock executions of Jews. That they denounced the march in Tunisa, which supported a claim to a Palestinian rising, of which is being done through murder?

You see its the denial that is the major obsticle that you and other Muslims are creating based off anger as seen above. Until you have a centralised and majority vocally condemnation of all acts of violence and hate to people. Then the token efforts done, count for very little. You need seperation, that makes the stand point within islam, against violence. To then more so champion peace. Ignore this all you like, but you are fundementally ignoring a problem that stems from a central core belief in islam of brotherhood and sisterhood. The bigggest factor and core reason to why some Muslims, with no connection to a nation and wrongs done there, have a connection and a perceived injustice, created around the faith itself. So please spare me your poor defense here zack, with deflecting claiming this is like smelly and mentor. If you had bothered to read, I am actually trying to help Muslims and even its religion, becaome seperate from the extremists. Its time you and countless other Muslims did actually something to reclaim your religion. Ignoring these fundemental problems, will just continue to allow the extremism to grow.

Lol! Of course Islam and over a billion Muslims need St Didge, the patron saint of arrogance and sanctimony.

Perhaps start by getting to know a few Muslims and perhaps visit a Mosque, like you've always wanted to. Give a speech there and discuss.

by Fuzzy Zack Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:29 am

Eilzel wrote:I'm sorry Sass, I was reasonable earlier this year when this happened. But Europe has done its best for refugees coming to Europe under immense strain. How many attacks must we be forced to endure (and that is exactly what you and Zack are asking for here).

It isn't racism or extremism to ask for a heavy reaction when many innocent people have been murdered by these cowards twice in one year in France. I don't care how they treat terror suspects, I care about more innocent people just having a good time being killed in large numbers by bitter, ruthless, brainwashed cowards.

You think Sassy and I want to risk our own lives? Really? Do you think you're being reasonable right now?

by Fuzzy Zack Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:29 am

the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) instructed his soldiers: -

1. “Do not kill any child, any woman, or any elder or sick person.” (Sunan Abu Dawud)

2. “Do not practice treachery or mutilation.(Al-Muwatta)

3. Do not uproot or burn palms or cut down fruitful trees.(Al-Muwatta)

4. Do not slaughter a sheep or a cow or a camel, except for food.” (Al-Muwatta)

5. “If one fights his brother, [he must] avoid striking the face, for God created him in the image of Adam.” (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim)

6. “Do not kill the monks in monasteries, and do not kill those sitting in places of worship. (Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal)

7. “Do not destroy the villages and towns, do not spoil the cultivated fields and gardens, and do not slaughter the cattle.” (Sahih Bukhari; Sunan Abu Dawud)

8. “Do not wish for an encounter with the enemy; pray to God to grant you security; but when you [are forced to] encounter them, exercise patience.” (Sahih Muslim)

9. “No one may punish with fire except the Lord of Fire.” (Sunan Abu Dawud).

10. “Accustom yourselves to do good if people do good, and to not do wrong even if they commit evil.” (Al-Tirmidhi)

Verse in the Holy Quraan

4:75 (Y. Ali) And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: “Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!”

- See more at: http://1000gooddeeds.com/2012/11/20/10-islamic-rules-of-war/#sthash.biMddelQ.dpuf

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