A lot of Muslim leaders just did (again) that thing that everybody says they never do ...

The immolation of a Jordanian pilot by the Islamic State group has brought a unified outcry Friday from top religious clerics across the Muslim world — including a prominent jihadi preacher — who insisted the militants have gone too far.

Abu Mohammed al-Maqdesi, considered a spiritual mentor for many al-Qaida militants, said the killing of Lt. Muath al-Kaseasbeh is "not acceptable in any religion." He spoke in an interview with Jordan's Roya TV a day after being released from more than three months in detention.

At Friday prayers in neighboring Iraq, where the militant group has seized territory in a third of the country, top Shiite cleric Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani declared in a sermon that the "savage" act demonstrates the extremists know no boundaries and violate "Islamic values and humanity."

Religious groups, often at odds with one another over ideologies or politics, are increasingly speaking out in unison against the militants, who continue to enforce their rule in Iraq and Syria through massacres, kidnapping, forced marriages, stonings and other acts of brutality.

Iranian Shiite cleric Ayatollah Mohammad Emami Kashani claimed in his sermon that militant groups like the Islamic State are created by Western nations as a means for promoting "an ugly picture of Islam."

Earlier this week, Islamic State militants released a video of al-Kaseasbeh, a Muslim, being burned to death in a cage. While the beheading of hostages from the U.S., Britain and Japan brought condemnation from most religious sects within Islam, the gruesome images of the airman's slaying served as a unifying battle-cry for Muslims across the world.

Jordan joined a U.S.-led military coalition against the militants in September, but said it would intensify its airstrikes in response to the killing of its air force pilot. On Thursday, dozens of fighter jets struck Islamic State weapons depots and training sites, Jordan's military said.

Outrage escalated in the capital of Amman following Friday prayers, with demonstrators unfurling a large Jordanian flag and holding up banners supporting King Abdullah II's pledge for a tough military response to avenge al-Kaseasbeh's death.

"We all stand united with the Hashemite leadership in facing terrorism," one banner read.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/jihadi-preacher-lashes-islamic-state-methods-28769400

Yeah...funny that....how loud they shout when its a Muslim victim.......

but hey...its a start......

British Muslims unite in fury at Isis murder of Alan Henning
Muslim Council of Britain says militants are 'hijacking Islam' as family of Salford taxi driver say they are 'numb with grief'
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/05/isis-murder-alan-henning-british-Muslim-community

Political leaders and Muslims across the globe have condemned Islamic State of Iraq and Levant (ISIL) extremists and called for the group to be “defeated” following the latest slaying of a hostage.
http://7daysindubai.com/world-leaders-condemn-latest-isil-beheading/

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2014/10/05/Prayers-said-for-Briton-killed-by-ISIS-fighters.html

Reza Aslan on "Deafening" Condemnation of Radical Islam: "If You Don't Hear It, Then You're Not Listening"
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/01/11/reza_aslan_on_deafening_condemnation_radical_islam_dont_hear_it_youre_not_listening.html

REALLY......

and yet........

the family of that animal that just got 12 derogatory years (remember he's out in 6 to kill a few more)

said nothing for the time he was out there.....effectively they "covered up " for him....

And yet this Muslim mother who went to the police for help, because her son was fighting Assad (that'll be the Assad who Cameron wanted to fight because he is bombing and gassing his own people) was also imprisoned

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/06/yusuf-sarwar-mother-british-jihadist-police-betray-syria

BTW you moved the goalposts, you were complaining about no condemnation from Muslims when in fact there has been a huge amount, when that was pointed out you went onto something else.

In passing, how vocal have you been in condemning the 100s of 1000s the west has killed in ME?

ahhh...but thats open and overt (if somewhat unfair and one sided) warfare....

non of this sneaking around and pretending to be part of society business

now ...if they want to come out into the open...and I'm allowed to shoot back............

risingsun wrote:And yet this Muslim mother who went to the police for help, because her son was fighting Assad (that'll be the Assad who Cameron wanted to fight because he is bombing and gassing his own people) was also imprisoned

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/06/yusuf-sarwar-mother-british-jihadist-police-betray-syria

BTW you moved the goalposts, you were complaining about no condemnation from Muslims when in fact there has been a huge amount, when that was pointed out you went onto something else.

I've been taking lessons from the master of moving goal posts

risingsun wrote:And yet this Muslim mother who went to the police for help, because her son was fighting Assad (that'll be the Assad who Cameron wanted to fight because he is bombing and gassing his own people) was also imprisoned

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/06/yusuf-sarwar-mother-british-jihadist-police-betray-syria

BTW you moved the goalposts, you were complaining about no condemnation from Muslims when in fact there has been a huge amount, when that was pointed out you went onto something else.

erm...the law says dont do it...or do you suggest we only stick to those laws we like?

I think the law is an ass and badly thought out.  Our government said Assad was committing crimes against humanity.  Day after day we could see and can still see the terrible things he has done to his people and the millions of refugees that the world is having to deal with because of it.   So, get people incenced about children being gassed and bombed and then lock them up if they try to help them.

BTW, did you know that Jewish Brits go and fight for Israel every year, they consider it their duty, it's called mahal.   When this piece was written there were about 100 Brits in the IDF

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-britons-fight-israel/18448

The Israeli's are being investigated for war crimes and crimes against humanity, some of those Brits might have been part of those crimes.

risingsun wrote:I think the law is an ass and badly thought out.  Our government said Assad was committing crimes against humanity.  Day after day we could see and can still see the terrible things he has done to his people and the millions of refugees that the world is having to deal with because of it.   So, get people incenced about children being gassed and bombed and then lock them up if they try to help them.

BTW, did you know that Jewish Brits go and fight for Israel every year, they consider it their duty, it's called mahal.   When this piece was written there were about 100 Brits in the IDF

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-britons-fight-israel/18448

The Israeli's are being investigated for war crimes and crimes against humanity, some of those Brits might have been part of those crimes.

In which case....if there are prosecutions for war crimes and any are implicated then they should be tried and if convicted, punished....
seems simple to me......

AMMAN, Jordan -- Thousands of Jordanians gathered at central Amman's Grand Husseini Mosque at noon on Friday, praying for peace and denouncing the Islamic State's extremist interpretation of Islam.
"This doesn't represent our religion to torture people like this," the imam boomed, his voice carrying across rows and rows of people whose heads were bowed in prayer. “These people claim they are working in the name of Islam. But they do not represent us."

Everywhere in sight, men, women and children held posters and banners commemorating Lt. Muath al-Kaseasbeh, the young Jordanian pilot who was burned alive by the Islamic State, the extremist group also known as ISIS.
Islamic State militants captured al-Kaseasbeh in December after his F-16 crashed during a bombing mission over Syria. Many Jordanians say his violent murder is an attack on Islam as well as on Jordan, which is one of the key Arab partners in the U.S.-led coalition targeting ISIS from the air.
An ISIS propaganda video circulated on Tuesday that showed young al-Kaseasbeh slowly and painfully burning to death. At the end of the video, the names and personal information of dozens of other Jordanian fighter pilots involved in the anti-ISIS air campaign were listed with a bounty on their heads. The militants promised huge amounts of money to anyone who would kill the pilots, raising concern among Jordanians about potential future attacks.

On Friday afternoon, Christians and Muslims of all backgrounds marched through downtown Amman, waving Jordanian flags and chanting against ISIS. Even Jordan's Queen Rania attended, holding a poster of the fallen fighter pilot turned national hero.
"We are here against terrorism," 20-year-old Mahmoud al-Khatib said as he stood on the roof of a building overlooking thousands of protesters, taking in the view. "We are here to support Jordan."

A wave of nationalism and unity has swept over the Hashemite Kingdom in support of King Abdullah II, who has vowed to wage "relentless" war on the jihadi group that has claimed large swaths of territory in Iraq and Syria.
Friday marks the last day of a three-day mourning ceremony in which friends, family and strangers alike came to honor al-Kaseasbeh in his hometown of Karak. The King and many prominent government officials paid their respects to the family, calling him the country's martyr.

Another protester who attended Friday's march, a middle-aged Muslim woman wearing a black hijab, introduced herself as Umm Mohammed. She told The WorldPost she was there to support al-Kaseasbeh's family. Tying a banner around her forehead that said "Muath, martyr of truth," Mohammed insisted that the Islamic State's so-called Islam did not resemble the moderate Islam she follows.
"They are terrorists," she said angrily. "They only kill!"

Jordan has responded firmly to the terrorist group's actions. Before the sun rose on Wednesday, Jordan's government executed two Iraqi prisoners with ties to al-Qaeda. The prisoners were Ziad al-Karbouli and Sajida al-Rishawi, the would-be suicide bomber whose release the Islamic State had previously demanded in exchange for al-Kaseasbeh. It is now believed that the young pilot was dead weeks before the militants brought up the idea of a prisoner exchange.
On Thursday, Jordanian fighter pilots struck ISIS positions, in an effort to show that Jordan would not back down. State television showed images of fighter jets emblazoned with the message, "Daesh, you are the enemy of Islam," using the the widely used derogatory nickname "Daesh" in reference to ISIS.

While many Jordanians vehemently oppose ISIS and everything it represents, there is an undercurrent of opposition among some who hate the extremist group but also question Jordan's role in the U.S.-led coalition fighting ISIS. Jordan also faces the grim reality that some of its own citizens either support or have joined a militant group the state is desperately trying to wipe out.
But one 60-year-old Jordanian man told The WorldPost that while he had supported aspects of the extremist group's "religious" ideology mere days ago, the video of ISIS brutally executing a fellow Muslim Jordanian showed him the group's true colors. Now, he has nothing but disdain for the militants.
For the most part, Jordan has come together, united under one battle cry than can be heard in crowded cafes and seen plastered on signs in parking lots: "Kulna Muath." We are all Muath.

Jordanians lit candles in memory of Muath al-Kaseasbe

Egyptian Muslims form a human shield to protect a Christian church:



Pakistani Muslims form a human shield to protect a Christian church:



Nigerian Muslims protect Christians during Christmas:



American Muslims feeding the poor in Dallas:





You're just fixating on one side of the story, dark.

Do you know Ben. I think ISIS have really spelt the death of their form of Islam or any wahhabist Islam. They are are actually uniting many Muslims against them, to the point they wish to disassociate themselves not only themselves as Muslims, but their religion itself. I think after ISIS is defeated, which is only a matter of time and if it is going to bring about change in the Islamic world and one for the better. I do not think it will happen over night, but I think Muslims will want to radically change the way the world looks at them. ISIS have been so barbaric, where they tried to ostracize the Muslim world from all Non_Muslims to create a mass war, is clearly backfiring in the Muslim world, where instead they seem to be uniting against them. The next couple of years will be very telling, though much work still needs to be done to bring about equality.

Brasidas wrote:Do you know Ben. I think ISIS have really spelt the death of their form of Islam or any wahhabist Islam. They are are actually uniting many Muslims against them, to the point they wish to disassociate themselves not only themselves as Muslims, but their religion itself. I think after ISIS is defeated, which is only a matter of time and if it is going to bring about change in the Islamic world and one for the better. I do not think it will happen over night, but I think Muslims will want to radically change the way the world looks at them. ISIS have been so barbaric, where they tried to ostracize the Muslim world from all Non_Muslims to create a mass war, is clearly backfiring in the Muslim world, where instead they seem to be uniting against them. The next couple of years will be very telling, though much work still needs to be done to bring about equality.

It's a good thing that comes at the expense of craftier leaders before them, I think. The top tier of Al Qaeda were willing to die without seeing any progress made and be satisfied that they helped bend the curve of history, but these ISIS people tried to grab everything at once and it's bitten them, as you say.

Would the rest of the world live in peace with a peaceful Caliphate? Of course it would, it did for centuries. But there's no way ISIS could accomplish its goals and be seen as having done it peacefully now.

Ultimately, I see this as a story of peaceful people triumphing over the violent, and that story could take a lot of twists and turns -- we could abolish a lot of other things in pursuit of peace -- but I agree, I can't see how the everyday Muslim feels that he/she is getting anything but worry from the likes of ISIS now.

I can only think that peaceful Muslims must be truly to the point of desperation if they're apologizing for the acts of others. I'm white and of European descent and I refuse to apologize for any violence carried out by any other white European. Breivik and McVeigh and centuries of white European violence, oppression and subjugation are farther removed from my reality than the moon, as far as I'm concerned.

They "unite".

Yes. But what does that really mean and what does it achieve?

darknessss wrote:

risingsun wrote:I think the law is an ass and badly thought out.  Our government said Assad was committing crimes against humanity.  Day after day we could see and can still see the terrible things he has done to his people and the millions of refugees that the world is having to deal with because of it.   So, get people incenced about children being gassed and bombed and then lock them up if they try to help them.

BTW, did you know that Jewish Brits go and fight for Israel every year, they consider it their duty, it's called mahal.   When this piece was written there were about 100 Brits in the IDF

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-britons-fight-israel/18448

The Israeli's are being investigated for war crimes and crimes against humanity, some of those Brits might have been part of those crimes.

In which case....if there are prosecutions for war crimes and any are implicated then they should be tried and if convicted, punished....
seems simple to me......

Then apply the same principle to the men who go to Syria to fight Assad who has killed, maimed and tortured millions of his own people.

risingsun wrote:

darknessss wrote:

In which case....if there are prosecutions for war crimes and any are implicated then they should be tried and if convicted, punished....
seems simple to me......

Then apply the same principle to the men who go to Syria to fight Assad who has killed, maimed and tortured millions of his own people.

i rather think thats what I suggested......

darknessss wrote:

risingsun wrote:

Then apply the same principle to the men who go to Syria to fight Assad who has killed, maimed and tortured millions of his own people.

i rather think thats what I suggested......

Apologies, I thought you were only suggesting it for those who went to fight for Israel.

nope the only diference in law that i can see is that it is legal for those who whish to to go and fight in the IDF....and this is due to the perculiar arangement we have where many JEWS are automatically "dual nationality"??

odd but there you go, however IF they are judged guilty of complicity in war crimes then prosecute.

The situation with those going to syria is different since it is defacto illegal to do so....
so they should be prosecuted for simply going ...let alone for any crime that those who do go may commit.

darknessss wrote:nope the only diference in law that i can see is that it is legal for those who whish to to go and fight in the IDF....and this is due to the perculiar arangement we have where many JEWS are automatically "dual nationality"??

odd but there you go, however IF they are judged guilty of complicity in war crimes then prosecute.

The situation with those going to syria is different  since it is defacto illegal to do so....
so they should be prosecuted for simply going ...let alone for any crime that those who do go may commit.

No it is not legal.  It is illegal for any British person to fight for any foreign army.

There is an obscure piece of legislation still on the statute books – the Foreign Enlistment Act 1870 – which ostensibly makes it illegal for British citizens to join the armed forces of a country fighting a state at peace with Britain.

eddie wrote:They "unite".

Yes. But what does that really mean and what does it achieve?

I think it must have the same effect as most political speech -- it can influence others' opinions and ultimately their actions. Muslim Town A's influential leaders call ISIS the heros of Islam, while Muslim Town B's leaders call ISIS bloodthirsty monsters. Which town will end up sending more recruits to ISIS?

Ben_Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:They "unite".

Yes. But what does that really mean and what does it achieve?

I think it must have the same effect as most political speech -- it can influence others' opinions and ultimately their actions. Muslim Town A's influential leaders call ISIS the heros of Islam, while Muslim Town B's leaders call ISIS bloodthirsty monsters. Which town will end up sending more recruits to ISIS?

being cynical I would say it all depends on how "self honest" town b's residents are