Christians "rising up" aiming to control United States, enforce Christian values

by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:46 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3XguLBBUDk

On Sunday, Oct. 12, conservative Christian groups — like the American Family Association (AFA), the Family Research Council (FRC) and other fringe groups — will meet in Washington, D.C. to outline a “national strategic plan that will bear fruit within 30 days and will greatly impact the critical midterm elections.”

The simulcast event, called iPledge Sunday, will feature well-known culture warriors like David Barton, the Benham brothers, Tony Perkins and Mat Staver.

Throughout the month, organizers have been advertising the event with web videos, which warn that “things are going from bad to worse in our nation and abroad.”

“Christians are being beheaded in the Middle East, Israel is being attacked from all sides,” the video says. “And back home, many of our religious freedoms are under severe legal restriction.”

The video asks for voters to take a stand against the “wicked” and against the “evildoers.”

Some of those legal restrictions include the Bible being “banished from our public schools and our public squares,” according to a description that’s included with the video.

And the iPledge Sunday website also points to abortion, court decisions on same-sex marriage, Common Core curriculum in the schools, and rules against pastors politicking from the pulpit.

“The bottom line: If the Church will rise up and vote, we can elect government leaders who will defend the unborn and the persecuted, support freedom of conscience and speech, limit the role of the federal government in education, and appoint judges who support traditional marriage,” the website warns. “The choice is ours.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/conservative-conference-vote-christian-or-face-isis-beheadings-and-sodomy-based-marriage/

by veya_victaous Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:55 am

So new terrorist threat rising?

Theocracy is Anti Democracy and Anti American at ITS VERY CORE.
that is by definition a gathering of traitors to the American Constitution. deploy the predator drones, exact same as ISIS.

by veya_victaous Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:01 am

I still don't get why these People that HATE everything George Washington fought for don't just move to Syria with the Jihad lovers.

American Family Association (AFA), the Family Research Council (FRC) just another name for ISIS... all the same theocrats that think their beliefs should be law as such stand against all western values.

We should just make a 'War on Theocrats' it would be a more efficient way to remove terrorist and threats to decent people.
We could even just make it simpler. Believe that a laws should exist for religious reason, receive no medical science, go and pray.. evolution will sort it out.

by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:12 am

The thing that makes me even more mad about this, on top of the theocratic bullshit, is that most of the people who are going to take part in this have a pretty good life. They're just losing their former stranglehold on U.S. culture, and they're pissy about it ...

by Guest Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:14 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:The thing that makes me even more mad about this, on top of the theocratic bullshit, is that most of the people who are going to take part in this have a pretty good life. They're just losing their former stranglehold on U.S. culture, and they're pissy about it ...

Interesting, I have stated the exact same about problems in the middle east, the fear of losing religious control.
Thanks for backing my point and agree with you in regards to the US.

by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:17 am

Oh fuck me sideways ...

by Guest Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:19 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:Oh fuck me sideways ...

No thanks, but it shows how you view something and lose sight of the exact same problem else where.
I think you do not like your views being taken to task.
That is life, except people disagree with you and the reality is you will find similar problems in may countries in regards to religious persuasion and control.

by veya_victaous Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:10 am

Didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Oh fuck me sideways ...

No thanks, but it shows how you view something and lose sight of the exact same problem else where.
I think you do not like your views being taken to task.
That is life, except people disagree with you and the reality is you will find similar problems in may countries in regards to religious persuasion and control.

So now you want to start a war with Iran too? Cause Iran never had a George Washington to defeat the freedom hating redcoats to win liberty.

ISIS are not theocratic, they are an EVIL organisation they have no legitimacy in any way shape or form be it theocratic, political or moral. No legitimate doctrine supports their actions (perfect example is Alan Henning, non-combatant that was assisting Muslims thus even by the most violent interpretation he should have been spared) they are just killers, rapists and thugs taking advantage of the fall of a nation the leaders are undoubtedly in it for personal enrichment, Notice the religious Caliphate is always completely under their 'god given' leadership so not really a caliphate at all.

by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:31 am

Didge wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Oh fuck me sideways ...

No thanks, but it shows how you view something and lose sight of the exact same problem else where.
I think you do not like your views being taken to task.
That is life, except people disagree with you and the reality is you will find similar problems in may countries in regards to religious persuasion and control.

Your windbaggery aside, I wasn't talking about the religious control the Christian conservatives are losing over the United States, but the social, political and increasingly, economic control. Religion is just the rudder they've used to control U.S. society, the engine has been political and economic power.

by Lone Wolf Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:51 am

Christians "rising up" aiming to control United States, enforce Christian values 3239900740

Christians "rising up" aiming to control United States, enforce Christian values 1481518877

PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMO' !!!

95% of Americans claim to follow some "faith" or another ~ even if that be "reality TV", TV church services, celebrity-centric fringe religions, their favourite sports team, Oprah, or the Jedi knights...

90% of "the faithful" would be too lazy to drag themselves away from their TVs and gun polishing to visit their local church/temple/kingdom hall/synagogue/mosque/tabernacle/masonic lodge/shrines/coven/sacred sites EVEN IF their lives depended on it - and that's assuming they can even find it..

THE evangelical, charismatic, pentecostal, schisms and cultists churches, within the Christian faith in the USA probably comprises less than 15% of the practicing flocks ? Christians "rising up" aiming to control United States, enforce Christian values 2190311264

Christians "rising up" aiming to control United States, enforce Christian values 2190311264

EXTREMIST militant evangelists make up less than 10% of the "born again" evangelical/charismatic/pentecostal sects..

SO, a few thousand fruit loops, representing maybe 00.12% of the US population are pledging this weekend to overthrow the US guvm'nt and it's Constitution in the next month or two; presumably on their way to hijacking Christmas ???

BE SCARED, America.. Be very scared ! pale

Christians "rising up" aiming to control United States, enforce Christian values 3986371719

by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:41 am

Good points, LW -- I have never believed that most people take their professed faith all that seriously, or believe in it all that deeply, particularly in first-world nations. It's more of a social tool, a way to fit in and make advantageous connections, etc.

You can tell it's true in the Christian community in the U.S. from things like how atheists know more about religion in the U.S. than Christians do: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/09/28/130191248/atheists-and-agnostics-know-more-about-bible-than-religious

Then again, it could be argued that atheism is one of several traits held by people who are just a little different from most:

http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2013/09/03/are-atheists-smarter-and-humbler/15423

Interesting in that the essay I linked to above makes pretty much the same argument that I've made here before, the notion that atheistic belief is actually far more humble than theistic views in which an all-powerful Source of All Goodness and a nearly all-powerful Source of All Evil are waging an epic, multidimensional war over what we, a bunch of insane apes on a little rock, do with our lives Smile

by eddie Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:22 am

So now a bunch of Christian nutters want to fight the war against the Muslim nutters??

by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:26 am

eddie wrote:So now a bunch of Christian nutters want to fight the war against the Muslim nutters??

I don't think there's anything new about that -- but no, now they've come up with a new idea for taking "their"country back Smile

Christians "rising up" aiming to control United States, enforce Christian values Wake-america-obama-democras-politics-1344559454

by Guest Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:28 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Didge wrote:

No thanks, but it shows how you view something and lose sight of the exact same problem else where.
I think you do not like your views being taken to task.
That is life, except people disagree with you and the reality is you will find similar problems in may countries in regards to religious persuasion and control.

Your windbaggery aside, I wasn't talking about the religious control the Christian conservatives are losing over the United States, but the social, political and increasingly, economic control. Religion is just the rudder they've used to control U.S. society, the engine has been political and economic power.

Windbaggery, oh my, you getting upset Ben ha ha.
This is the same point in Muslim countries, where they also have conservative views on Islam, where the same point is true there which you seem at odds with me saying, where in both the US and certain Islamic countries, certain groups fear losing religious literal control. Unsure how this confuses you so much.

by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:55 am

Not upset, but pretty tickled at this point Smile

You can stop stabbing that Straw-Ben, he ain't getting any deader!

by Guest Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:59 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:Not upset, but pretty tickled at this point You can stop stabbing that Straw-Ben, he ain't getting any deader!

Again it would be a contradiction on your part to claim some Christians are one way without also saying some Muslims are too, which is why my view on the literal belief of religions, espcially when they hold power or influence is a problem. For example with the rules on homosexuals being allowed to marry, being denied by religious literal belief by some in the US. It is far worse in many Islamic countries, because religion does still hold power there.
Again I fai to see why you ignore this and what is wrong with the rhetoric by some Liberals, where is something is wrong people are afraid to say so, where clearly both religious have commands that restrict progression.

by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:07 am

Straw-Ben is still just laying there, Didge. But I'll go ahead and give you something to attack:

"All Muslims are good and all Christians are bad! We should all go Muslim, burqas all around! Allahu Admiral Ackbar, or some shit!"

by Guest Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:13 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:Straw-Ben is still just laying there, Didge. But I'll go ahead and give you something to attack:

"All Muslims are good and all Christians are bad! We should all go Muslim, burqas all around! Allahu Admiral Ackbar, or some shit!"

Very much gobbledygook, you find good in bad in all religions, but you are still missing all the points and unwilling to condemn beliefs in both religions, where as I do, hey ho, it shows you are not really liberal, because you are afraid to condemn some, where they hold discriminating views, like for example as stated already in regards to homosexuality. This is a major issue, where it maybe better in the west, but as seen, many are still persecuted.
Hey ho Ben, if you want to be afraid to speak out against discrimination, that is your choice

by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:30 am

I'm done trying to justify myself to you, Didge. Piss off.

by Guest Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:34 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:I'm done trying to justify myself to you, Didge. Piss off.

Blimey if that is how you treat your guests, then I shall accommodate you, when clearly you do not like having to face difficult points.

All the best, and take care, I have no ill feeling towards you and others, but if this is your stance, so be it.

by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:54 am

See you've flounced again, but if you can't see how your previous post crossed a line then there's no explaining it to you. Sorry.

by Raggamuffin Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:42 am

veya_victaous wrote:So new terrorist threat rising?

Theocracy is Anti Democracy and Anti American at ITS VERY CORE.
that is by definition a gathering of traitors to the American Constitution. deploy the predator drones, exact same as ISIS.

Where was terrorism mentioned?

by Cass Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:28 pm

so can anyone tell me if I should worry and be stockpiling twinkies? do I even bother with a pedicure this weekend?

seriously do these people really have a hard time in understanding the concept of SEPARATION of church and state? who exactly do they want to take back America from? Their fellow citizens? oh the irony in them acting just like the groups they want to fight and them not realising it is overwhelming.

Their religious practices are NOT under any threat......they have no clue that because they live here and not "there" gives them the right to spout so much facetiousness.

But it is worrying that people like them have access to weapons. Yeas you asshats have free speech and freedom to assembly BUT you must use it with responsibility. but I don't think that will happen.

by Raggamuffin Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:21 pm

Why do people get so uptight about this kind of thing? If they have strong Christian beliefs they have the right to say what they want - within reason. That doesn't mean that they're going to be taking over the US in some kind of military coup any day soon.

by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:10 pm

Whether bloodless or military, I'm troubled by their vision of what America should be and I don't want any part of it. I would like to live in a secular nation. That's what makes me uptight about it ...

by eddie Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:26 pm

Guest wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:I'm done trying to justify myself to you, Didge. Piss off.

Blimey if that is how you treat your guests, then I shall accommodate you, when clearly you do not like having to face difficult points.

All the best, and take care, I have no ill feeling towards you and others, but if this is your stance, so be it.

I don't know of this will ever be read by didge, if he comes back, but people have to allow mods and admin to be able to get wound up and argue like "ordinary posters" - nothing bad was said here just "piss off"

So for the record, I don't think didge should've taken umbrage and if I know him, he will realise this when he has calmed down.

If you're reading this didge, you should've pm'd me first xx
Speak soon x

by Raggamuffin Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:35 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Whether bloodless or military, I'm troubled by their vision of what America should be and I don't want any part of it. I would like to live in a secular nation. That's what makes me uptight about it ...

It looks to me like they want whatever it is via the ballot box. If people don't want that, they won't vote for it. We have some Muslims over here saying they want Sharia law or whatever, but they're not going to get into power anyway.

by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:37 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Whether bloodless or military, I'm troubled by their vision of what America should be and I don't want any part of it. I would like to live in a secular nation. That's what makes me uptight about it ...

It looks to me like they want whatever it is via the ballot box. If people don't want that, they won't vote for it. We have some Muslims over here saying they want Sharia law or whatever, but they're not going to get into power anyway.

A fair point. I still see the usefulness in letting the public know when a religious group (or any interest group) plans to mobilize to change the country, whether you agree with them or not. It's good to know when someone's planning to change the balance of power even if they have little chance of achieving their goals.

by Raggamuffin Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:40 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It looks to me like they want whatever it is via the ballot box. If people don't want that, they won't vote for it. We have some Muslims over here saying they want Sharia law or whatever, but they're not going to get into power anyway.

A fair point. I still see the usefulness in letting the public know when a religious group (or any interest group) plans to mobilize to change the country, whether you agree with them or not. It's good to know when someone's planning to change the balance of power even if they have little chance of achieving their goals.

It's just a lobby group I suppose - we have loads of them over here.

by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:03 pm

This whole idea of Christians wanting to take the country back is relatively new here -- sure, we had grumbling and complaining and a few dire prophecies when we decided it was inappropriate for schoolteachers to lead students in Christian prayers every day in class, but it really started to come to a head in the 1990s.

The 1980s were the time in my life that I participated the most in religion (I was a kid and pretty much doing what my parents told me to do), and there were no sermons about abortion, homosexuality, etc., nor exhortations to vote. It seemed a lot more "knock and the door shall be opened" than "Jesus is kicking down your door!"

by Original Quill Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:38 pm

Guest wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Oh fuck me sideways ...

No thanks, but it shows how you view something and lose sight of the exact same problem else where.
I think you do not like your views being taken to task.
That is life, except people disagree with you and the reality is you will find similar problems in may countries in regards to religious persuasion and control.

Wait a minute...I think you both are making the same point...and it's a good one. The problems with Egypt's recent history is a case in point. Hosni Mubarak was ousted, and basically the Muslim Brotherhood moved in and began--admittedly, slowly--to build a theocracy.

Although the background is different, and Sisi has overthrown a democratically elected government, they are similar movements...in sentiments. The MB and Christian movements that urge a return to basic ways of American life, are very similar. They are both conservative, and attempt to return to more theocratic roots.

I don't want to step on anyone's toes here. I just want to make a point of political principle. Didge is not being controversial, but analytical.

by Ben Reilly Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:42 pm

Yeah, my only clarification was that I don't see it as religious control that they fear losing as much as economic and social power. They have used religion as the rudder/whip/steering wheel/whatever analogy you like, but the real goal is power.

An analogy to religion would be cultural values, which we see used in the same way. In the U.S., we put a lot of value on the idea of liberty, and we see how the powerful have tried to manipulate and take advantage of that.

by Original Quill Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:02 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Yeah, my only clarification was that I don't see it as religious control that they fear losing as much as economic and social power. They have used religion as the rudder/whip/steering wheel/whatever analogy you like, but the real goal is power.

An analogy to religion would be cultural values, which we see used in the same way. In the U.S., we put a lot of value on the idea of liberty, and we see how the powerful have tried to manipulate and take advantage of that.

I see your point.

To take it further, religion is cultural values. They are both a host of concepts, which have different meaning to different folks. Conservative Christians, for example, will talk a lot about right to life, but they will vote against school lunches or any program of Christian charity giving the child a true life.

by veya_victaous Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:19 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:So new terrorist threat rising?

Theocracy is Anti Democracy and Anti American at ITS VERY CORE.
that is by definition a gathering of traitors to the American Constitution. deploy the predator drones, exact same as ISIS.

Where was terrorism mentioned?

"Armed group suggesting to take country back" if they weren't white they would be called terrorists Rolling Eyes

the USA is founded on secularism NOT Christianity.
it so it's religious group Attacking lands that are not theirs and trying to force their religious laws on the population.... that sounds an awful lot like ISIS.... and yes they do regularly bomb and shoot people that disagree with them too Rolling Eyes

ask an abortion doctor Neutral

by nicko Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:10 am

What a soft lot some of you are, no wonder you never won any wars.

by Frazzled Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:19 am

When religions 'rise up' it always spells trouble. I don't have a problem with basic religious values but I can be a good person without them.

by Raggamuffin Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:49 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Where was terrorism mentioned?

"Armed group suggesting to take country back" if they weren't white they would be called terrorists

the USA is founded on secularism NOT Christianity.
it so it's religious group Attacking lands that are not theirs and trying to force their religious laws on the population.... that sounds an awful lot like ISIS.... and yes they do regularly bomb and shoot people that disagree with them too ask an abortion doctor

I can't see anything like that in the OP.

Religious people are entitled to make their views known via the ballot box and via free speech. It sounds as if you want to suppress them.

by Lone Wolf Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:31 pm

"THERE are none so blind as those who refuse to see..."

THE organisers of this fruitloop assembly are a militant terrorist and white supremacist anti-Constitution sect ~ as anybody can prove to their own satisfaction with a quick visit to their home pages..

THE more extremist "take back our country and kick out the coloureds, gays, Marxists, greenies and Islamists" RW evangelical/Pentecostal/Charismatic sects have been an increasingly serious threat to US freedoms and secular culture since the 1980s; while the Zionists, Islamists and Fringe Loons have only been really significant national problems for the USA since the turn of the century.
Christians "rising up" aiming to control United States, enforce Christian values 2418298

Christians "rising up" aiming to control United States, enforce Christian values 2418298

by Raggamuffin Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:31 pm

Lone Wolf wrote:

"THERE are none so blind as those who refuse to see..."

THE organisers of this fruitloop assembly are a militant terrorist and white supremacist anti-Constitution sect ~ as anybody can prove to their own satisfaction with a quick visit to their home pages..

THE more extremist "take back our country and kick out the coloureds, gays, Marxists, greenies and Islamists" RW evangelical/Pentecostal/Charismatic sects have been an increasingly serious threat to US freedoms and secular culture since the 1980s; while the Zionists, Islamists and Fringe Loons have only been really significant national problems for the USA since the turn of the century.

Can you provide more information about them being a militant terrorist, white supremacist organisation?

by Ben Reilly Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:34 pm

Raggs, you should do your own research on the groups named in the OP. The AFA, for one, are those loving Christians who offered an artificial burning cross for sale for Christmas 2008 (just weeks after Obama was elected).

http://web.archive.org/web/20090625030339/https://store.afa.net/pc-10000310-11-christmas-cross.aspx

by Original Quill Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:42 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Religious people are entitled to make their views known via the ballot box and via free speech. It sounds as if you want to suppress them.

If you raise your head above the fray, you'll see that they are losers complaining about their situation. So I agree with you Raggs, in part. We complain about their complaints...but their complaints are correct, they are losing. What I don't agree with is everything else. I applaud their loss.

It is up to us, the winners, to counter their lies, not their sentiments. And don't allow their racist, fascist rants to affect anyone or anything.

by Ben Reilly Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:01 pm

Just a few other points:

* White, male, conservative, rural-dwelling Republican over age 50 are more likely to own guns than any other group in the U.S.: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/15/the-demographics-and-politics-of-gun-owning-households/ So it's safe to say that this movement is armed.

* I am also entitled to make my views known via the ballot box and free speech, and that's how I intend to help defeat these theocrats. (And why I posted this in the first place.)

by Original Quill Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:05 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Just a few other points:

* White, male, conservative, rural-dwelling Republican over age 50 are more likely to own guns than any other group in the U.S.: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/07/15/the-demographics-and-politics-of-gun-owning-households/ So it's safe to say that this movement is armed.

* I am also entitled to make my views known via the ballot box and free speech, and that's how I intend to help defeat these theocrats. (And why I posted this in the first place.)

Precisely....

That's why I said:

Quill wrote:It is up to us, the winners, to counter their lies, not their sentiments. And don't allow their racist, fascist rants to affect anyone or anything.

by Raggamuffin Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:20 am

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Religious people are entitled to make their views known via the ballot box and via free speech. It sounds as if you want to suppress them.

If you raise your head above the fray, you'll see that they are losers complaining about their situation. So I agree with you Raggs, in part. We complain about their complaints...but their complaints are correct, they are losing. What I don't agree with is everything else. I applaud their loss.

It is up to us, the winners, to counter their lies, not their sentiments. And don't allow their racist, fascist rants to affect anyone or anything.

Well lots of people who are losing complain about it. Gay people used to complain about losing because the didn't have the same rights. Black people complain because they think they're being treated badly. I don't see why it's OK to slate these religious people if you stick up for gay people and black people.

I'm not saying that black people and gay people shouldn't have the same rights, I'm just saying that religious people are also entitled to voice their complaints.

by Raggamuffin Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:24 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:Raggs, you should do your own research on the groups named in the OP. The AFA, for one, are those loving Christians who offered an artificial burning cross for sale for Christmas 2008 (just weeks after Obama was elected).

http://web.archive.org/web/20090625030339/https://store.afa.net/pc-10000310-11-christmas-cross.aspx

Well I didn't start the thread, so it's up to the person who did, or the people who are agreeing with that person, to provide the proof.

I don't know about that cross. It's not burning, it's just very bright. They seem to be advertising it as a way of drawing attention to the real meaning of Christmas, but it's not something I would want, and I can see why you can see a sinister meaning to it.

by Original Quill Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:06 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

If you raise your head above the fray, you'll see that they are losers complaining about their situation. So I agree with you Raggs, in part. We complain about their complaints...but their complaints are correct, they are losing. What I don't agree with is everything else. I applaud their loss.

It is up to us, the winners, to counter their lies, not their sentiments. And don't allow their racist, fascist rants to affect anyone or anything.

Well lots of people who are losing complain about it. Gay people used to complain about losing because the didn't have the same rights. Black people complain because they think they're being treated badly. I don't see why it's OK to slate these religious people if you stick up for gay people and black people.

I'm not saying that black people and gay people shouldn't have the same rights, I'm just saying that religious people are also entitled to voice their complaints.

That's the part I agree with you about, Raggs. Let 'em gripe. Just as long as they just gripe.

by Raggamuffin Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:07 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well lots of people who are losing complain about it. Gay people used to complain about losing because the didn't have the same rights. Black people complain because they think they're being treated badly. I don't see why it's OK to slate these religious people if you stick up for gay people and black people.

I'm not saying that black people and gay people shouldn't have the same rights, I'm just saying that religious people are also entitled to voice their complaints.

That's the part I agree with you about, Raggs. Let 'em gripe. Just as long as they just gripe.

Well if enough of them vote for these changes they want, perhaps they'll do more than gripe. The point is that I've seen nothing to indicate that they want to enforce change via violence or force.

by Original Quill Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:13 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

That's the part I agree with you about, Raggs. Let 'em gripe. Just as long as they just gripe.

Well if enough of them vote for these changes they want, perhaps they'll do more than gripe. The point is that I've seen nothing to indicate that they want to enforce change via violence or force.

In order to have an effective vote, they have to have the numbers. That ain't gonna happen. The world is going in the opposite direction. The basic assumption of the secular society is that modernity overcomes religion. Ulrich Beck.

They are essentially old white men, warehousing their bodies until their time.

by Raggamuffin Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:17 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well if enough of them vote for these changes they want, perhaps they'll do more than gripe. The point is that I've seen nothing to indicate that they want to enforce change via violence or force.

In order to have an effective vote, they have to have the numbers. That ain't gonna happen. The world is going in the opposite direction.

They are essentially old white men, warehousing their bodies until their time.

You could say that about a lot of groups who want change though. I don't see why people are obsessing about these particular ones.

by Original Quill Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:20 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

In order to have an effective vote, they have to have the numbers. That ain't gonna happen. The world is going in the opposite direction.

They are essentially old white men, warehousing their bodies until their time.

You could say that about a lot of groups who want change though. I don't see why people are obsessing about these particular ones.

There is a future and there is a past. Obsessing about the past is a waste of time.

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