Kurds rescue Yazidis from Iraqi mountain

Kurdish forces tell Al Jazeera they have opened a road to Sinjar, reaching more than 5,000 Yazidis besieged by IS group.

Iraqi Kurdish security forces have opened a road to Sinjar Mountain in northwestern Iraq, rescuing more than 5,000 Yazidis trapped there after running away from fighters from the Islamic State (IS) group, a Kurdish army spokesman has told Al Jazeera.

"I can confirm that we succeeded in reaching the mountains and opening a road for the refugees," said Halgord Hikmet, a spokesman for the peshmergas the Kurdish security forces.

Hikmet said that recent airstrikes on the IS targets by US warplanes had allowed the peshmergas to open a route to the mountain.

The IS, which has captured large areas of Syria and Iraq, see Shia Muslims and minorities such as Christians and Yazidis, a Kurdish ethno-religious community, as infidels.

The Yazidis, a minority that follow a 4,000-year-old faith, had taken cover in Sinjar Mountain for the past five days in searing heat, and with no supplies, after fleeing advancing IS fighters.

Two Kurdish officials, Ekrem Hasso and Juan Mohammad, told the AP news agency that the Yazidis fled across the border from Iraq to seek refuge with the Kurds of northeastern Syria.

Rami Abdurrahman, who heads the London-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, also said thousands of people have fled from Iraq into Syria but had no exact number.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/08/kurds-rescue-yazidis-from-iraq-mountain-201489135227783157.html


On the news tonight it said the reason they had not been able to before was because Obama and Cameron stopped the Kurds having arms. They ran out of bullets, which was why the IS managed to progress so far. We've fucked up the whole region and the people there pay the price for the mistake of America and Britain.

So we are responsible for these refugees and have 'fucked it up' because we wont supply arms to them, yet on the other thread you are saying we should stop our tax payers money to supply arms to Israel, have I got that right?

Did someone actually die and put you in charge of the worlds arms supply chain? Why is it right to supply one lot of people and not another, just on your say so?

harvesmom wrote:So we are responsible for these refugees and have 'fucked it up' because we wont supply arms to them, yet on the other thread you are saying we should stop our tax payers money to supply arms to Israel, have I got that right?

Did someone actually die and put you in charge of the worlds arms supply chain? Why is it right to supply one lot of people and not another, just on your say so?

I was just thinking that??  :\\:[: 

harvesmom wrote:So we are responsible for these refugees and have 'fucked it up' because we wont supply arms to them, yet on the other thread you are saying we should stop our tax payers money to supply arms to Israel, have I got that right?

Did someone actually die and put you in charge of the worlds arms supply chain? Why is it right to supply one lot of people and not another, just on your say so?

Hiya HarvesMom

The problem is, these arguments and debates are fake, they seek to carry the moral high ground based around even worse a political argument, which cares little for the victims, so:

Riddle me this.

If the Islamic Republic, should march through Southern Syria, who will be able to protect both Gaza and Palestine and would do so?

Israel

harvesmom wrote:So we are responsible for these refugees and have 'fucked it up' because we wont supply arms to them, yet on the other thread you are saying we should stop our tax payers money to supply arms to Israel, have I got that right?

Did someone actually die and put you in charge of the worlds arms supply chain? Why is it right to supply one lot of people and not another, just on your say so?

Because we destabalised the area when we invaded Iraq, left them in a terrible state with all their infrastructure in bits and have now told them to get on with it.

Didge wrote:

harvesmom wrote:So we are responsible for these refugees and have 'fucked it up' because we wont supply arms to them, yet on the other thread you are saying we should stop our tax payers money to supply arms to Israel, have I got that right?

Did someone actually die and put you in charge of the worlds arms supply chain? Why is it right to supply one lot of people and not another, just on your say so?

Hiya HarvesMom

The problem is, these arguments and debates are fake, they seek to carry the moral high ground based around even worse a political argument, which cares little for the victims, so:

Riddle me this.

If the Islamic Republic, should march through Southern Syria, who will be able to protect both Gaza and Palestine and would do so?

Israel

That is the most ignorant thing I have heard in a long time.

Sassy wrote:

harvesmom wrote:So we are responsible for these refugees and have 'fucked it up' because we wont supply arms to them, yet on the other thread you are saying we should stop our tax payers money to supply arms to Israel, have I got that right?

Did someone actually die and put you in charge of the worlds arms supply chain? Why is it right to supply one lot of people and not another, just on your say so?

Because we destabalised the area when we invaded Iraq, left them in a terrible state with all their infrastructure in bits and have now told them to get on with it.

For years Saddam butchered many ethnic groups and people stood by for years and now there is more of the same and you bemoan Palestinians?
Where was your protests then Sassy, when Sadamn, was killing innocents?
Where was your protests when Iranian children were being trained to walk into no-mans land, indoctrinating them with the belief they would go to heaven, when in reality, they were being used to clear mine fields?

Tell me, where was your organised protests?

Didge wrote:

harvesmom wrote:So we are responsible for these refugees and have 'fucked it up' because we wont supply arms to them, yet on the other thread you are saying we should stop our tax payers money to supply arms to Israel, have I got that right?

Did someone actually die and put you in charge of the worlds arms supply chain? Why is it right to supply one lot of people and not another, just on your say so?

Hiya HarvesMom

The problem is, these arguments and debates are fake, they seek to carry the moral high ground based around even worse a political argument, which cares little for the victims, so:

Riddle me this.

If the Islamic Republic, should march through Southern Syria, who will be able to protect both Gaza and Palestine and would do so?

Israel

I can't comment on that Didge, I'm not political, not religious, I don't even fully understand whats going on out there to be honest. I do however recognise double standards when I see them, hence my post.

If we are stopping arms supply to one area, we need to stop all of them IMO, not pick and choose. I do feel sorry for those refugees don't get me wrong, but how is sending them bullets going to help resolve the situation? (this obviously is a rhetorical question and I wasn't saying you have suggested it will!)

Didge wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Because we destabalised the area when we invaded Iraq, left them in a terrible state with all their infrastructure in bits and have now told them to get on with it.

For years Saddam butchered many ethnic groups and people stood by for years and now there is more of the same and you bemoan Palestinians?
Where was your protests then Sassy, when Sadamn, was killing innocents?
Where was your protests when Iranian children were being trained to walk into no-mans land, indoctrinating them with the belief they would go to heaven, when in reality, they were being used to clear mine fields?

Tell me, where was your organised protests?

Saddam did many things was not a nice man, but under him the Iraqi's had a much better life, health service, education for all, clean water, electricity etc. I marched against the invasion and I protested about the embargo that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children, perhaps you should read up about it.

harvesmom wrote:

Didge wrote:
Hiya HarvesMom

The problem is, these arguments and debates are fake, they seek to carry the moral high ground based around even worse a political argument, which cares little for the victims, so:

Riddle me this.

If the Islamic Republic, should march through Southern Syria, who will be able to protect both Gaza and Palestine and would do so?

Israel

I can't comment on that Didge, I'm not political, not religious, I don't even fully understand whats going on out there to be honest. I do however recognise double standards when I see them, hence my post.

If we are stopping arms supply to one area, we need to stop all of them IMO, not pick and choose.  I do feel sorry for those refugees don't get me wrong, but how is sending them bullets going to help resolve the situation? (this obviously is a rhetorical question and I wasn't saying you have suggested it will!)

Agreed, but we have supplied on any government arms to many what we would describe as barbaric Governments, hence all these debates are more about left and right wing vies to some, than any children dying, people are used like pawns in a game of chess, both sides manipulate at this.

People in the main are shocked for only about 10 seconds over about news media reports, hence why sassy knowing full well none of her anti Israel threads were getting much attention posted that graphic picture. It had nothing to do about care, because if it a person did they would warn of the heartbreak. horror, ill and sadness of seeing something like this

Pure ignorance.

Sassy wrote:

Didge wrote:


For years Saddam butchered many ethnic groups and people stood by for years and now there is more of the same and you bemoan Palestinians?
Where was your protests then Sassy, when Sadamn, was killing innocents?
Where was your protests when Iranian children were being trained to walk into no-mans land, indoctrinating them with the belief they would go to heaven, when in reality, they were being used to clear mine fields?

Tell me, where was your organised protests?

Saddam did many things was not a nice man, but under him the Iraqi's had a much better life, health service, education for all, clean water, electricity etc.   I marched against the invasion and I protested about the embargo that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children, perhaps you should read up about it.

So the Kurds in Iraq had a much better life?
So again where were your organised marches for the following:


Where was your protests then Sassy, when Sadamn, was killing innocents?
Where was your protests when Iranian children were being trained to walk into no-mans land, indoctrinating them with the belief they would go to heaven, when in reality, they were being used to clear mine fields?

Sassy wrote:Pure ignorance.

Really?

It seems, I am far more intelligent than you with that response, though, sadly you think you are, but all you did is try to manipulate, as seen, I expose that for what it is.
Poor

Post-invasion Iraq - the facts


Twelve years of sanctions and seven years of occupation have taken their toll as Iraqis struggle with wrecked infrastructure and continuing insecurity.
CHILDREN

Iraq’s child mortality rate has increased by a staggering 150% since 1990, when draconian UN sanctions were first imposed. During the embargo, which lasted until May 2003 and prevented the rebuilding of water and sanitation infrastructure by banning chlorine and spare parts, the leading cause of death for children under five was waterborne illness. An estimated 500,000 children died in the first 5 years of the embargo.1
Post-invasion, Iraqi children continue to suffer. Some 122,000 under-fives died in 2005. More than half of these deaths were among newborn babies in the first month of life.2
In 2008 only 50% of primary school-age children were attending class, down from 80% in 2005. Approximately 1,500 children were known to be held in detention facilities.3
In 2007 there were 5 million Iraqi orphans, according to official Government statistics.4
Child malnutrition rates have risen from 19% before the US-led invasion in 2003 to 28% in 2007.5

REFUGEES/DISPLACED PERSONS

A recent report by the NGO Refugees International urges the US to intervene in the humanitarian crisis facing thousands of Iraqis displaced by war because it ‘bears special responsibility’ for their situation.6
33% – or 500,000 people – of the 1.5 million internally displaced people forced from their homes in 2006 and 2007 ‘live as squatters in slum areas’.7
50,000 Iraqi refugees have been forced into prostitution.8
According to Refugees International, the US accepted fewer than 800 Iraqi refugees from 2003 until 2007. By comparison, Sweden has taken in 18,000 and Australia almost 6,000. By 2006, Jordan had admitted 750,000 Iraqis, although they are denied official refugee status and instead called ‘visitors’.9
Displacement is largely a result of sectarian cleansing in mixed neighbourhoods. Sunnis have fled Basra, while Shi’as were driven out of areas north of Baghdad such as Samarra and Baquba. The US ‘surge’ did not create peace, but rather cemented sectarian segregation. In the majority Sunni village of Abou Jabour, south of Baghdad, where US forces dropped 45,000 kg of explosives in 10 days in January 2008 as part of the ‘surge’, survivors were left to dig through the rubble with their bare hands.10
In Northern Iraq, Saddam’s old policy of ‘Arabization’ has been reversed as thousands of ethnic Kurds forced out 100,000 Iraqi Arabs.11
Sunni Arabs have driven out at least 70,000 Kurds from Mosul’s western half and Assyrian and Turkmen villages have formed their own militias to defend themselves from both Arab Islamist and Kurdish Nationalist groups.12

INFRASTRUCTURE14

8 million Iraqis require immediate emergency aid, with nearly half of the population living in absolute poverty.
4 million people lack food and are in dire need of humanitarian assistance.
Only 60% of the 4 million people who depend on food assistance have access to rations from the public distribution system, down from 96% in 2004.
The number of Iraqis without access to adequate water supplies has risen from 50% to 70% since 2003.
80% of people in Iraq do not have safe access to effective sanitation.
The most critical water shortage since Babylonian times is threatening to leave up to 2 million people in the south of Iraq without drinking water. Rampant waterborne diseases and the lack of electricity and clean drinking water have led Iraqis to take to the streets in Baghdad chanting: ‘No water, no electricity in the country of oil and the two rivers.’ A four-year drought plagues most of Iraq. In the north, lack of water has forced more than 100,000 people to abandon their homes since 2005, with 36,000 more on the verge of leaving.15

DISAPPEARANCES, ASSASSINATIONS, ILLEGAL DETENTIONS

At least 210 lawyers and judges have been killed since the 2003 invasion, in addition to dozens injured in attacks against them.17
Based on studies undertaken by local NGOs, at least 15,000 Iraqis disappeared during the first four years of US occupation.18
According to the Brussels Tribunal, 437 Iraqi academics have been murdered since the invasion.19
An estimated 30,000 untried detainees are currently being held by the Iraqi authorities. Most are housed in overcrowded and unsanitary facilities controlled by the Ministries of Justice, Interior and Defence.20
As of February 2010, US forces – who turned over thousands of their prisoners to Iraqi authorities – were still holding 5,800 people.21
As of 2007, Baghdad had earned the title ‘Kidnapping Capital of the World’.22

WOMEN

An Oxfam-designed survey23 of Iraqi women aged 21 to 65 was carried out by Iraqi NGO Al-Amal in 2008. It paints a grim picture and calls the situation for women a ‘silent emergency’. It also calls for the implementation of new methods of protecting women ‘as the security situation shifts from widespread violence to more targeted attacks, to which women are particularly vulnerable’.

- See more at: http://newint.org/features/2010/05/01/post-invasion-iraq-facts/#sthash.kK0VjZh4.dpuf

Before the invasion girls received the same education as boys, they worked, they had the best health service, we destroyed the lot.

Sassy wrote:Pure ignorance.

Sorry sassy but he has a point.
You posted up loads of threads that didn't get a lot of attention, then you posted that picture that you knew would shock and cause upset.

eddie wrote:

Sassy wrote:Pure ignorance.

Sorry sassy but he has a point.
You posted up loads of threads that didn't get a lot of attention, then you posted that picture that you knew would shock and cause upset.

I posted that because Shady said, why the fuss. That was why the fuss.

Didge wrote:

harvesmom wrote:

I can't comment on that Didge, I'm not political, not religious, I don't even fully understand whats going on out there to be honest. I do however recognise double standards when I see them, hence my post.

If we are stopping arms supply to one area, we need to stop all of them IMO, not pick and choose.  I do feel sorry for those refugees don't get me wrong, but how is sending them bullets going to help resolve the situation? (this obviously is a rhetorical question and I wasn't saying you have suggested it will!)

Agreed, but we have supplied on any government arms to many what we would describe as barbaric Governments, hence all these debates are more about left and right wing vies to some, than any children dying, people are used like pawns in a game of chess, both sides manipulate at this.

People in the main are shocked for only about 10 seconds over about news media reports, hence why sassy knowing full well none of her anti Israel threads were getting much attention posted that graphic picture. It had nothing to do about care, because if it a person did they would warn of the heartbreak. horror, ill and sadness of seeing something like this

100% agree Didge, as I said we are all aware of what goes on, we are not stupid but we don't need it thrust into our faces so graphically, just to prove a point which is more political than anything else.

harvesmom wrote:

Didge wrote:

Agreed, but we have supplied on any government arms to many what we would describe as barbaric Governments, hence all these debates are more about left and right wing vies to some, than any children dying, people are used like pawns in a game of chess, both sides manipulate at this.

People in the main are shocked for only about 10 seconds over about news media reports, hence why sassy knowing full well none of her anti Israel threads were getting much attention posted that graphic picture. It had nothing to do about care, because if it a person did they would warn of the heartbreak. horror, ill and sadness of seeing something like this

100% agree Didge, as I said we are all aware of what goes on, we are not stupid but we don't need it thrust into our faces so graphically, just to prove a point which is more political than anything else.

Even the news warns when on TV, thus posting that was used to gain topics being discussed.
It actually proves a point, like I said only certain conflicts gain much attention, more so by who is involved.
Some though sadly do not think how such a picture can be very upsetting.

If it's political to show you exactly what is happening and take your blinkers off, then it's political. Hoped it might shock you enough to do something, but obviously not, so back you all go to your cosy worlds while children are torn limb from limb, and tut tut about seeing a picture of reality.

Sassy wrote:If it's political to show you exactly what is happening and take your blinkers off, then it's political.   Hoped it might shock you enough to do something, but obviously not, so back you all go to your cosy worlds while children are torn limb from limb, and tut tut about seeing a picture of reality.

Shock me about just one conflict when many innocent children die all over the world, why just this one place that you save for your attention, when many more die each day?
Can you see to me, there seems more to your arguments than meets the eye?

Nest time sassy, warn people what you are exactly posting a link too, it was bang out of order, you gave no thought to anyone but yourelf

Sassy wrote:If it's political to show you exactly what is happening and take your blinkers off, then it's political.   Hoped it might shock you enough to do something, but obviously not, so back you all go to your cosy worlds while children are torn limb from limb, and tut tut about seeing a picture of reality.

Oh do shut up sassy.
You're getting rather ridiculous now.

Did you wind SM up like this? Jesus.

Didge wrote:Nest time sassy, warn people what you are exactly posting a link too, it was bang out of order, you gave no thought to anyone but yourelf

Exactly Didge
100% right

Sassy wrote:If it's political to show you exactly what is happening and take your blinkers off, then it's political.   Hoped it might shock you enough to do something, but obviously not, so back you all go to your cosy worlds while children are torn limb from limb, and tut tut about seeing a picture of reality.

And what are you going to do Sassy? Now that you are brave and can look at pictures of children with their heads blown off? What are you going to do that's any different to me that's going to change or improve that situation?

No really, please do tell me I'm all ears, since you seem to know what needs to be done to stop this. You tell us what you are doing to stop this, let us know when you have a result and we'll start your own thread about what a hero you are.

harvesmom wrote:

Sassy wrote:If it's political to show you exactly what is happening and take your blinkers off, then it's political.   Hoped it might shock you enough to do something, but obviously not, so back you all go to your cosy worlds while children are torn limb from limb, and tut tut about seeing a picture of reality.

And what are you going to do Sassy? Now that you are brave and can look at pictures of children with their heads blown off? What are you going to do that's any different to me that's going to change or improve that situation?

No really, please do tell me I'm all ears, since you seem to know what needs to be done to stop this. You tell us what you are doing to stop this, let us know when you have a result and we'll start your own thread about what a hero you are.

Now that was Poetry.

Best post of the day.

Didge wrote:

harvesmom wrote:

And what are you going to do Sassy? Now that you are brave and can look at pictures of children with their heads blown off? What are you going to do that's any different to me that's going to change or improve that situation?

No really, please do tell me I'm all ears, since you seem to know what needs to be done to stop this. You tell us what you are doing to stop this, let us know when you have a result and we'll start your own thread about what a hero you are.

Now that was Poetry.

Best post of the day.

It is
Well said HM

Sassy wrote:

eddie wrote:

Sorry sassy but he has a point.
You posted up loads of threads that didn't get a lot of attention, then you posted that picture that you knew would shock and cause upset.

I posted that because Shady said, why the fuss.   That was why the fuss.

Ah so its about getting Shady's attention?!

Nems wrote:

Didge wrote:

Now that was Poetry.

Best post of the day.

It is
Well said HM

Hi Nems

There is little to be said after such a good point raise and shows even more fake outrage over certain conflicts and the futility of such anger.

Night all
xx

Didge wrote:

Nems wrote:

It is
Well said HM

Hi Nems

There is little to be said after such a good point raise and shows even more fake outrage over certain conflicts and the futility of such anger.

Night all
xx

Well its all very well taking the moral high ground and telling us all we are clueless and know nothing, but unless you are actually doing something yourself to stop it as you say its rather fake and futile.

Night Didge x

harvesmom wrote:

Didge wrote:


Hi Nems

There is little to be said after such a good point raise and shows even more fake outrage over certain conflicts and the futility of such anger.

Night all
xx

Well its all very well taking the moral high ground and telling us all we are clueless and know nothing, but unless you are actually doing something yourself to stop it as you say its rather fake and futile.

Night Didge x

Quite right!

Night Didge

My dream is that one day we will see all these pathetic cowards that find such pleasure in causing such destruction on humanity, get served the same. Or at least be left homeless and afraid. They so need to feel a little of the suffering, if only to understand what they have done.

It sickens me so much, how these pigs still live a life of luxury.

harvesmom wrote:So we are responsible for these refugees and have 'fucked it up' because we wont supply arms to them, yet on the other thread you are saying we should stop our tax payers money to supply arms to Israel, have I got that right?

Did someone actually die and put you in charge of the worlds arms supply chain? Why is it right to supply one lot of people and not another, just on your say so?

Everybody who knows their history knows that Britain fucked over the people currently living in the totally fabricated area known as "Iraq," beginning in the early 1920s.

It's exactly what the British government did in India -- play local rivals against one another, which makes it easier to rule them (i.e. at a lower expense and with fewer people).

This is history that can't be glossed over or run away from. Any Briton who tries to downplay it looks like this guy:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

harvesmom wrote:So we are responsible for these refugees and have 'fucked it up' because we wont supply arms to them, yet on the other thread you are saying we should stop our tax payers money to supply arms to Israel, have I got that right?

Did someone actually die and put you in charge of the worlds arms supply chain? Why is it right to supply one lot of people and not another, just on your say so?

Everybody who knows their history knows that Britain fucked over the people currently living in the totally fabricated area known as "Iraq," beginning in the early 1920s.

It's exactly what the British government did in India -- play local rivals against one another, which makes it easier to rule them (i.e. at a lower expense and with fewer people).

This is history that can't be glossed over or run away from. Any Briton who tries to downplay it looks like this guy:

Ben you sound like a typical Muslim by going on about events in the distant past.As that is exactly what the nutjob Muslims do,by going on & on about the crusades & other events that took place hundreds of years ago.

You, like them need to progress into the 21st century.

Shady wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

harvesmom wrote:So we are responsible for these refugees and have 'fucked it up' because we wont supply arms to them, yet on the other thread you are saying we should stop our tax payers money to supply arms to Israel, have I got that right?

Did someone actually die and put you in charge of the worlds arms supply chain? Why is it right to supply one lot of people and not another, just on your say so?

Everybody who knows their history knows that Britain fucked over the people currently living in the totally fabricated area known as "Iraq," beginning in the early 1920s.

It's exactly what the British government did in India -- play local rivals against one another, which makes it easier to rule them (i.e. at a lower expense and with fewer people).

This is history that can't be glossed over or run away from. Any Briton who tries to downplay it looks like this guy:

Ben you sound like a typical Muslim by going on about events in the distant past.As that is exactly what the nutjob Muslims do,by going on & on about the crusades & other events that took place hundreds of years ago.

You, like them need to progress into the 21st century.

So you ignore history? Don't care about the types of people populating London in the here and now?

captainJane wrote:My dream is that one day we will see all these pathetic cowards that find such pleasure in causing such destruction on humanity, get served the same. Or at least be left homeless and afraid. They so need to feel a little of the suffering, if only to understand what they have done.

It sickens me so much, how these pigs still live a life of luxury.  

Hi there CaptainJane, good to see you again.
I agree with you; nothing like karma.

Ben_Reilly wrote:So you ignore history? Don't care about the types of people populating London in the here and now?

Well, regardless of the importance of history, Ben I do think you sidestepped HM's point. How does sending more bullets, or whining about the plight of one side or the other, settle this conflict or lead to a humane end?

I didn't see the picture posted by sassy, but I gather it was an affront to some.

Praise the Kurds
      

At least some one has stepped up and saved the relatively defenceless Yazidis...

the Kurds while not perfect are fast looking like the best in the best group in this conflict. Saving Minorities and taking refugees are generally traits of the 'good guys'

Ben_Reilly wrote:

harvesmom wrote:So we are responsible for these refugees and have 'fucked it up' because we wont supply arms to them, yet on the other thread you are saying we should stop our tax payers money to supply arms to Israel, have I got that right?

Did someone actually die and put you in charge of the worlds arms supply chain? Why is it right to supply one lot of people and not another, just on your say so?

Everybody who knows their history knows that Britain fucked over the people currently living in the totally fabricated area known as "Iraq," beginning in the early 1920s.

It's exactly what the British government did in India -- play local rivals against one another, which makes it easier to rule them (i.e. at a lower expense and with fewer people).

This is history that can't be glossed over or run away from. Any Briton who tries to downplay it looks like this guy:

Whilst it is important to have knowledge of history, personally I see no mileage in bearing grudges against different countries for 100 years, 500 years, or a thousand years. I live for the here and now, and I am concerned about what is happening today and what impact that will have in the future.

If we were all to bear grudges almost every Country in the World would still be at war with each other, and ultimately it would be who has the biggest and fastest button to finish each other off today that wins.

All that aside, that wasn't the point of my post anyway, I was commenting on the double standards of someone who on one thread was saying we (as in GB) were wrong in supplying arms to one Country and that we were wrong in NOT supplying them to another set of people.

So my question still stands, would it make the situation for these refugees any better had we armed them with bullets?

Perhaps you should read up on the situation.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2014/08/isis-advances-as-kurds-run-out-of-ammunition.php

http://abcnews.go.com/International/isis-beating-iraqis-kurds-lacks-heart-ammo/story?id=24907091

I wont be following any of your links thank you.

It doesn't alter my point that you think we should arm the refugees against ISIS yet we should leave the Israelis with no weapons and as sitting ducks for Hamas.

First one:

ISIS advances as Kurds run out of ammunition

Last month, I noted the parlous situation of Iraqi Kurds and the unwillingness of President Obama to assist them in their effort to combat ISIS. Iraq’s Kurds must defend a 650 mile border, thanks to the collapse of the Iraq army in the north. And they receive virtually no arms from Baghdad, thanks to its animosity towards the Kurds. Yet Obama refuses to help.

Now, the Washington Post reports that ISIS has made its first significant inroads against the defenses of the overstretched Kurds. They have punched through to the northern town of Sinjar. Another town, Wana, has also fallen, leaving ISIS within striking distance of Mosul’s hydroelectric dam, the largest in the country.

In Sinjar, ISIS promptly blew up a Shiite shrine and ordered residents to convert or die.

The Obama administration, through State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki, stated that the United States is “gravely concerned” by the displacement of civilians and the loss of life. What’s next, a #SavetheShrines campaign?

Team Obama should be “gravely concerned” about more than displacement of civilians and loss of life. It should be concerned that the most extreme offshot of al Qaeda continues to ascend.

Above all, Team Obama’s grave concern should translate into action. Specifically, the U.S. should supply Iraq’s Kurds with arms and ammunition.

The need for such supplies could not be more obvious. Kurdish forces reportedly retreated from Sinjar because they ran out of ammunition. The Iraqi Kurds are known for their fighting prowess, but no force can fight without ammunition.

Why hasn’t Obama supplied the Kurds? Apparently, it has something to do with the niceties of Iraq’s constitutional framework. Obama, it seems, has more regard for that framework than he does for ours.

If Obama is prepared to ignore the U.S. Constitution to grant amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants who face virtually zero chance of deportation, he should be willing to overlook Iraqi formalities in order to help the Kurds defend themselves against our most implacable and barbaric enemy — a group that even Eric Holder finds “more frightening than anything.”


Second one:


Home> International
ISIS Beating Iraqis and Kurds As One Lacks 'Heart' and the Other Ammo
Aug 9, 2014, 6:30 AM ET
By LEE FERRAN, JAMES MEEK and MEGHAN KENEALLY
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PHOTO: Iraqi army forces stand guard against Islamic State-led militants possible attacks
Iraqi army forces stand guard against Islamic State-led militants' possible attacks in Saladin province, Iraq, August 8, 2014.
Anadolu Agency/Getty Images

The Islamic militia ISIS has been able to roll back both the Iraqi army and the Kurdish peshmerga force because one lacks the "heart" for a fight while the other lacks the firepower, according to Americans familiar with both forces.

ISIS has easily swept the Iraqi army from Anbar province in the southwest of Iraq as well as much of northern Iraq and then blunted attempts by the Iraqi government to retake cities.

The Kurdish peshmerga was expected to be a more formidable force, but they have also lost ground to ISIS, including the vital Mosul dam, in recent days.

"It is not clear whether either the peshmerga or the ISF (Iraq Security Force) can prevent ISIS from seizing villages and outlying infrastructure that ISIS desires to control,” said Jessica Lewis, the research director at the Institute of the Study of War.

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On paper, ISIS should be no match for the Iraqi and Kurdish forces. The ISF had more than 270,000 troops and about 340 tanks, while a conservative estimate of the peshmerga force is 80,000.

"ISIS is strategically dividing the military forces of the ISF and the peshmerga in order to compromise their defenses and prevent them from mounting effective offensive campaigns,” Lewis told ABC News.

But the problems go deeper than coordination, particularly with the Iraqi army.

"They are very weak and if it’s left up to them, it’s over," a source who served in the U.S. Army in Iraq and has continued to work there as a contractor told ABC News.

PHOTO: Kurdish peshmerga fighters load a missile launcher
Feriq Ferec/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images
PHOTO: Kurdish peshmerga fighters load a missile launcher

He said that he has found the Iraqi people to be more dedicated to their ancestral ties as opposed to their national identity, saying they "are loyal to their tribes, not their country.”

The army's problems are compounded by the practice of appointing officers based largely on their Shiite backgrounds and their political ties instead of competence.

"They've been a checkpoint army," Lt. Gen. Mike Barbero, the former deputy commander of U.S. Forces-Iraq, told ABC News in June. "If you're not training all the time or maintaining your equipment, you're not going to be effective. Counter-insurgency requires very active and targetable intelligence, which they didn't have, and the skills to go in there and attack the network."

"An army runs on skill and will, and they didn't have the will," Barbero said.

PHOTO: In this July 29, 2014 photo, Islamic militants parade in Beiji, Iraq.
AP Photo
PHOTO: In this July 29, 2014 photo, Islamic militants parade in Beiji, Iraq.

Barbero said that the peshmerga, which roughly translates to mean "those who face death," have the "guts" to fight, but they have very little ammunition. Barbero speaks with Kurdish officials regularly and said that he was told they lost control of the Mosul dam because they ran out of bullets.

State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf said Friday, "The Kurdish forces have played a critical role in addressing this threat. We understand their need for additional arms and equipment, and are working to provide those as well so they are reinforced. So we are bringing a lot of firepower to bear against this threat, mainly by helping the Iraqis."

The former military source told ABC that the Peshmerga are strengthened by their dedication to their cause.

"They are the kind of guys you want having your back. They are battle-hardened... and mostly U.S. trained. They are actually loyal to their country, unlike regular Iraqi troops," the former military source told ABC. "They are solid. They have been fighting since Saddam era and they have one interest – to have Kurdistan left alone."

The U.S. State Department said Friday that they have been "advising and assisting" both the Iraqi security forces and the peshmerga.

Harf said that the Iraqi army and the peshmerga are working together "in an unprecedented way... to counter this threat together."




As for Israeli's being sitting ducks for Hamas, how the hell do you work that out with the whole of Gaza is a prison that very little can get in and out of, Israel has the land surrounded in barbed wire, what they have left and doesn't even let them fish in their own seas.  And Israel has nuclear weapons.

Waffle Sassy.... people from Gaza could until recently fish up to 6 miles out.... but because of them using this freedom to smuggle arms in and because of increased rocket fire and hostility, this was reduced to 3 miles only a month ago.....


http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=710377


http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/08/gaza-palestinian-fishermen-israel-blockade-201489131718364341.html




And why don't the Turks help the Kurds in their defence against the ISIS terrorists....???!!!



Surely they could help if they wanted too....

Christ on a bike you don't even read your own links do you.

The Al Jaz one:

Gaza fishermen demand end to blockade
Gaza's fishermen are particularly hard-hit by Israel's offensive, with many decrying the bombings as 'economic war'.

Gaza City - Ayman Alamodi was 18 when he began working as a fisherman in the Gaza Strip. But that was 30 years ago, long before the Egyptian-Israeli siege on the Palestinian territory made it nearly impossible for the father of four to provide food for his family.

"My experience from this ongoing war has been the worst; the intensity of air strikes and destruction has forced me to stay home," Alamodi told Al Jazeera, explaining that fishing has been nearly impossible under a near-constant barrage of Israeli air strikes and naval shelling off Gaza's coast.

Since the war began, Palestinian fishermen have suffered severe financial losses after Israeli F-16s struck sheds storing fishing equipment. Amjad Shrafi, deputy head of the Gaza Fishermen's Syndicate, told Al Jazeera that Israeli shelling has cost the fishing industry about $3m in the past month along the Gaza coastline.

"Bombing the workrooms of fishermen [where fishing equipment, including motors and nets, is kept] is meant to drive us away from the sea," Shrafi said. "It's a [form of] collective punishment."

Over the past several years, hundreds of Palestinian fishermen have been arrested, injured and even killed off the Gaza coast. Meanwhile, the Israeli navy has confiscated 54 fishing boats, Shrafi said. In the first half of 2014 alone, Israeli navy ships fired at Gaza fishermen at least 177 separate times.

Over a month ago, on July 6, the Israeli authorities reduced the fishing area off Gaza's coast from six to three nautical miles. This was the fourth time restrictions were placed on access to Gaza's coastal waters since a ceasefire agreement came into effect following Israel's 2012 military offensive in Gaza.

Israeli officials gave no explanation as to why the recent limits were imposed, "nor whether [they are] permanent or temporary", according to Gisha, a legal centre advocating for Palestinian freedom of movement.

Under the Oslo Accords agreement, Palestinians should be granted access to 20 nautical miles off the Gaza coast.

"It's a waste of time: there are no fish within three [nautical] miles now, but further out, beyond six [nautical] miles, there are natural stones where we can find a variety of fish," said Alamodi, adding that he remembered when he was able to go beyond 12 nautical miles and catch all types of fish in the Mediterranean.

Even in 2012, when Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi was in power, fuel came cheaply from tunnels linking Gaza to Egypt, and fishermen could enter Egyptian waters, Alamodi said.

Dr Moeen Rajab, an economist at Al Azhar University, said that Israel has purposefully targeted Gaza's fishing industry to stem its profits and sever Palestinians from the historic profession. "This economic war [is] to force fishermen to rely on charity and eventually leave Palestine," Rajab said.

According to the United Nations, at least 95 percent of Gaza's fishermen rely on international aid to survive, while the number of fishermen dropped from approximately 10,000 in 2000, to 3,500 in July 2013. Palestinian fishermen lost approximately 1,300 metric tonnes of fish annually between 2000 and 2012 as a result of Israeli restrictions, the UN found.

But these challenges haven't kept a younger generation of Palestinian fishermen out of the water.

Alamodi's nephew, Mouneer, 34, makes a living from the family's boat, but told Al Jazeera that whatever he earns has never been enough to meet his family's needs. It costs 200 NIS ($58) to run a generator to power the boat each day, while what he catches only brings in 50 NIS ($14). Those earnings are then divided between his relatives: each of the 10 fishermen receives only 5 NIS ($1.44).

"We are living on debt owed to the gas stations; we pay [them] half of what we earn and we live on the other half," Mouneer said, adding that for the past month he hasn't been able to work at all. The family boat's motor was also destroyed, and replacing it will cost 25,000 NIS (about $7,210), he said.

Another fisherman, Saleh Abu Ryala, had his workroom destroyed in an Israeli bombing. With all his belongings and work tools now unusable, the 45-year-old fisherman said that it might take years to get back on his feet.

"Even motors for fishing boats are not available to us because Israel won't allow us to use them on our boats," he said. "So what is destroyed, is gone forever... This is Israel's aim for Gaza."

Alamodi added that lifting the siege on Gaza - a main Palestinian demand in ongoing negotiations between Israel and Palestinian faction Hamas to end the violence in Gaza - is crucial to ensuring that their profession can continue.

"We just want freedom to fish," Alamodi said, "and sustain our families exactly like our grandparents did".




Where exactly does that mention arms smuggling.   You have just posted a link that completely backs up my argument and rejects yours.  So I had a look at your first one:

GAZA CITY (Ma’an) – Israel decided on Sunday to reduce the fishing zone open for Gaza fishermen from 6 nautical miles to 3, and they warned that boats which exceed that limit will be fired upon.

The reduction was confirmed by sources in the Palestinian liaison department.

Nevertheless, the union of Gaza fishermen says it will stick to the former fishing zone.

The union’s speaker Nizar Ayyash told Ma'an that fishermen would “find out the certainty of the news if they will be fired at.”

He highlighted that some fishermen have already entered the 6-mile zone.




You're an idiot Tommy, they both say fishermen are being shot at and there fishing restricted, AND IT'S THEIR BLOODY WATERS, NOT ISRAEL'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see another decent debate has gone out of the window with continual spamming of articles.

Didge wrote:I see another decent debate has gone out of the window with continual spamming of articles.

You tit, those were the links TM posted to back up his argument and they actually showed the opposite, which was why I put them for him to actually read.

The only person spoiling debates is you.

And as it is a thread I started, not you, mind your own business for a change.

Sassy wrote:

Didge wrote:I see another decent debate has gone out of the window with continual spamming of articles.

You tit, those were the links TM posted to back up his argument and they actually showed the opposite, which was why I put them for him to actually read.

The only person spoiling debates is you.

Yes which we can all open ourselves, without you spamming the thread with the whole article you skank, if you want to post part to prove your point do that, instead of spoiling the debate, you never can answer for yourself and always post what other people say, its boring as fuck and ruins the debate.

You fail to respond to many points already raised, you gloss over them and then spam in the hope nobody will respond, its again pathetic

Didge wrote:

Sassy wrote:

You tit, those were the links TM posted to back up his argument and they actually showed the opposite, which was why I put them for him to actually read.

The only person spoiling debates is you.

Yes which we can all open ourselves, without you spamming the thread with the whole article you skank, if you want to post part to prove your point do that, instead of spoiling the debate, you never can answer for yourself and always post what other people say, its boring as fuck and ruins the debate.

You fail to respond to many points already raised, you gloss over them and then spam in the hope nobody will respond, its again pathetic

Oh do shut the fuck up for once you pathetic infantile burk. The whole article was the opposite of what he said and if I want to post it I will. Who the hell do you think you are? Frankly, if you go around calling women 'skanks' because they post articles it's no wonder you are by yourself. You're disgusting and stupid and ignorant and a bully. Now go and try it with someone else, because your 'God almighty' act doesn't work with me.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

harvesmom wrote:So we are responsible for these refugees and have 'fucked it up' because we wont supply arms to them, yet on the other thread you are saying we should stop our tax payers money to supply arms to Israel, have I got that right?

Did someone actually die and put you in charge of the worlds arms supply chain? Why is it right to supply one lot of people and not another, just on your say so?

Everybody who knows their history knows that Britain fucked over the people currently living in the totally fabricated area known as "Iraq," beginning in the early 1920s.

It's exactly what the British government did in India -- play local rivals against one another, which makes it easier to rule them (i.e. at a lower expense and with fewer people).

This is history that can't be glossed over or run away from. Any Briton who tries to downplay it looks like this guy:

An American lecturing the Brits about Iraq?

Now I've heard everything.   

Sassy wrote:

Didge wrote:

Yes which we can all open ourselves, without you spamming the thread with the whole article you skank, if you want to post part to prove your point do that, instead of spoiling the debate, you never can answer for yourself and always post what other people say, its boring as fuck and ruins the debate.

You fail to respond to many points already raised, you gloss over them and then spam in the hope nobody will respond, its again pathetic

Oh do shut the fuck up for once you pathetic infantile burk.   The whole article was the opposite of what he said and if I want to post it I will.   Who the hell do you think you are?    Frankly, if you go around calling women 'skanks' because they post articles it's no wonder you are by yourself.   You're disgusting and stupid and ignorant and a bully.   Now go and try it with someone else, because your 'God almighty' act doesn't work with me.

No I will not shut up you lying pathetic skank, you bore everyone and ruin the debates all the time with your spamming mainly because you cannot argue for yourself and have to plagiarizer everyone elses view on the matter. You are a skank full stop and you call me a bully, do not make me laugh, 3 forums have fallen victim to the bullying tactics of Sassy, we you are not here there is peace and quite on here.
All you constantly to is play the victim card when you instigate most of the crap on here and more and more people see through your utter lies

Didge wrote:

Sassy wrote:


Oh do shut the fuck up for once you pathetic infantile burk.   The whole article was the opposite of what he said and if I want to post it I will.   Who the hell do you think you are?    Frankly, if you go around calling women 'skanks' because they post articles it's no wonder you are by yourself.   You're disgusting and stupid and ignorant and a bully.   Now go and try it with someone else, because your 'God almighty' act doesn't work with me.

No I will not shut up you lying pathetic skank, you bore everyone and  ruin the debates all the time with your spamming mainly because you cannot argue for yourself and have to plagiarizer everyone elses view on the matter. You are a skank full stop and you call me a bully, do not make me laugh, 3 forums have fallen victim to the bullying tactics of Sassy, we you are not here there is peace and quite on here.
All you constantly to is play the victim card when you instigate most of the crap on here and more and more people see through your utter lies

Are you having a little paddy waddy are you, shall we get Mummy to give you a bottle and change your nappy? Then the grown ups can get back to talking like grown ups and not have to put up with babies temper tantrum.