20 years ago today...

UK politics lost a great man,,,the late ex-Labour leader John Smith, can't believe it's been so long...and I can't help wonder what a big difference for the better John Smith would have made.
RIP Joh Smith.

We can never be sure, but I think this country would be very different and a much better place if he had lived. 20 years!

Blimey....................

Where have the years gone.....

It as a great loss to our Country. A bigger one to his family but I am of the mind we would not be in the dire mess we are now had be become our PM.

That from a Tory btw.

gerber wrote:Blimey....................

Where have the years gone.....

It as a great loss to our Country.  A bigger one to his family but I am of the mind we would not be in the dire mess we are now had be become our PM.

That from a Tory btw.  

He was just a 'good' man in every sense of the word and clever. So many people seem to think the same thing Gerbs x

Nice one guys..and yes..your a Tory Gerbs...and a much better and more honourable one than some on the right...

Well spoken Gerbs, some of our politicians on both sides are only out for themselves, but just a few on each side of more for the people.

Do you think he would have been like Blair & would he have plunged us into two totally unnecessary wars?

Shady wrote:Do you think he would have been like Blair & would he have plunged us into two totally unnecessary wars?

Afternoon Admiral

No.

He would not have needed the kudos of a war to win votes or the respect of Parliament.

gerber wrote:

Shady wrote:Do you think he would have been like Blair & would he have plunged us into two totally unnecessary wars?

Afternoon Admiral

No.

He would not have needed the kudos of a war to win votes or the respect of Parliament.

Absolutely right.

Labour wouldn't have got in without Tony Blair anyway.

Raggamuffin wrote:Labour wouldn't have got in without Tony Blair anyway.

You obviously don't know anything about John Smith.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Labour wouldn't have got in without Tony Blair anyway.

You obviously don't know anything about John Smith.

I don't think they would have won with John Smith at the helm.

Rags, the Conservatives would have voted Labour with John Smith at the helm   

Shady wrote:Do you think he would have been like Blair & would he have plunged us into two totally unnecessary wars?

Definitely not, New Labour would not have happened. Our Prime Minister would not have been portrayed World wide as Bush's Poodle. The guy had  a intelligence sadly lacking in todays politicians. The man is sadly missed.  

Stephenmarra wrote:

Shady wrote:Do you think he would have been like Blair & would he have plunged us into two totally unnecessary wars?

Definitely not, New Labour would not have happened. Our Prime Minister would not have been portrayed World wide as Bush's Poodle. The guy had  a intelligence sadly lacking in todays politicians. The man is sadly missed.  

He definitely is.

Darn, I thought this was going to be about Sgt. Pepper.

From Conservative home ......................... Today................. Have a read Rags.

" John McTernan remembers John Smith, 20 years after his death

John smith“Would he have been a good prime minister? Certainly. He would have come into No 10 as an experienced cabinet minister who had learned his trade in the difficult days of the Callaghan government. The ethos would have been a very Scottish Christian – Presbyterian, even – socialism, but with that sparkle of wit and humour that Smith gave to everything. Blair and Brown would have shone, but in a different way – Tony as a fine, reforming home or education secretary and Gordon, without the torture of thwarted ambition, more able to use his undoubted talents fully.” – John McTernan, The Guardian “…is the Scottish parliament that we’ve had for the past 15 years, the one that John Smith envisaged?” – Alan Cochrane, Daily Telegraph

“”A new centre dedicated to rehabilitating the image of public service has been launched at Glasgow University as a lasting tribute to the life and work of John Smith, the former Labour leader.” – The Scotsman

http://www.conservativehome.com/frontpage/2014/05/newslinks-for-monday-12th-may-2014.html

gerber wrote:From Conservative home ......................... Today.................  Have a read Rags.  

" John McTernan remembers John Smith, 20 years after his death

John smith“Would he have been a good prime minister? Certainly. He would have come into No 10 as an experienced cabinet minister who had learned his trade in the difficult days of the Callaghan government. The ethos would have been a very Scottish Christian – Presbyterian, even – socialism, but with that sparkle of wit and humour that Smith gave to everything. Blair and Brown would have shone, but in a different way – Tony as a fine, reforming home or education secretary and Gordon, without the torture of thwarted ambition, more able to use his undoubted talents fully.” – John McTernan, The Guardian “…is the Scottish parliament that we’ve had for the past 15 years, the one that John Smith envisaged?” – Alan Cochrane, Daily Telegraph

“”A new centre dedicated to rehabilitating the image of public service has been launched at Glasgow University as a lasting tribute to the life and work of John Smith, the former Labour leader.” – The Scotsman

http://www.conservativehome.com/frontpage/2014/05/newslinks-for-monday-12th-may-2014.html

Extremely good article Gerbs.

Sassy wrote:

gerber wrote:From Conservative home ......................... Today.................  Have a read Rags.  

" John McTernan remembers John Smith, 20 years after his death

John smith“Would he have been a good prime minister? Certainly. He would have come into No 10 as an experienced cabinet minister who had learned his trade in the difficult days of the Callaghan government. The ethos would have been a very Scottish Christian – Presbyterian, even – socialism, but with that sparkle of wit and humour that Smith gave to everything. Blair and Brown would have shone, but in a different way – Tony as a fine, reforming home or education secretary and Gordon, without the torture of thwarted ambition, more able to use his undoubted talents fully.” – John McTernan, The Guardian “…is the Scottish parliament that we’ve had for the past 15 years, the one that John Smith envisaged?” – Alan Cochrane, Daily Telegraph

“”A new centre dedicated to rehabilitating the image of public service has been launched at Glasgow University as a lasting tribute to the life and work of John Smith, the former Labour leader.” – The Scotsman

http://www.conservativehome.com/frontpage/2014/05/newslinks-for-monday-12th-may-2014.html

Extremely good article Gerbs.

Thank you.

This afternoon I sat and watched all the HOC coverage e the emergency question tabled by liebour re free schools.

Gove was outstanding.  He had the labour members nodding in agreement, the opposition front bench smarting.

I hope he replaces DC as our next leader.  He was extremely well briefed, had the knowledge at his fingertips, knew all members who raised a question and their constituencies.  

He is mocked in the media because he is a danger to most mediocre politicians.

It has been a very long time since I have seen such a commanding member from anyside.  Maybe Paddy Asdown was the last.

It appeared to me he had the respect of the majority of MPs present. Not a normal situation these days.

gerber wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Extremely good article Gerbs.

Thank you.

This afternoon I sat and watched all the HOC coverage e the emergency question tabled by liebour re free schools.

Gove was outstanding.  He had the labour members nodding in agreement, the opposition front bench smarting.

I hope he replaces DC as our next leader.  He was extremely well briefed, had the knowledge at his fingertips, knew all members who raised a question and their constituencies.  

He is mocked in the media because he is a danger to most mediocre politicians.

It has been a very long time since I have seen such a commanding member from anyside.  Maybe Paddy Asdown was the last.

It appeared to me he had the respect of the majority of MPs present.  Not a normal situation these days.

Very true.   Still think he is wrong though lol

Actually, I think he is mocked for a more insidious reason, his 'looks'. The media has a habit of mocking people for their looks.

Stephenmarra wrote:

Shady wrote:Do you think he would have been like Blair & would he have plunged us into two totally unnecessary wars?

Definitely not, New Labour would not have happened. Our Prime Minister would not have been portrayed World wide as Bush's Poodle. The guy had  a intelligence sadly lacking in todays politicians. The man is sadly missed.  

Agreed Stephen.

Sassy wrote:

gerber wrote:

Thank you.

This afternoon I sat and watched all the HOC coverage e the emergency question tabled by liebour re free schools.

Gove was outstanding.  He had the labour members nodding in agreement, the opposition front bench smarting.

I hope he replaces DC as our next leader.  He was extremely well briefed, had the knowledge at his fingertips, knew all members who raised a question and their constituencies.  

He is mocked in the media because he is a danger to most mediocre politicians.

It has been a very long time since I have seen such a commanding member from anyside.  Maybe Paddy Asdown was the last.

It appeared to me he had the respect of the majority of MPs present.  Not a normal situation these days.

Very true.   Still think he is wrong though lol

Actually, I think he is mocked for a more insidious reason, his 'looks'.    The media has a habit of mocking people for their looks.

Only yesterday you were calling Gove "this stupid stupid man"

Nems wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Very true.   Still think he is wrong though lol

Actually, I think he is mocked for a more insidious reason, his 'looks'.    The media has a habit of mocking people for their looks.

Only yesterday you were calling Gove "this stupid stupid man"

Run run while you can Nems     ::rfth:: 

David wrote:

Nems wrote:

Only yesterday you were calling Gove "this stupid stupid man"

Run run while you can Nems     ::rfth:: 

  

I find it very interesting.............

Did anyone of you hear Gove speak today.........

If so you are excused. If not being media reapers is about all you are good for.

The actual thread was in memory of the Rt Hon John Smith.

A labour politician. An expert in his field. A gentleman who hand not spent all his life either in school, college nor as a political researcher trying to find a way into Westminster. He had been educated, learned and become wise in the toils of life. An expert if you like of everyday toils and tribulations...........

he had respect among the HOC from all benches because of his knowledge. I have likened Gove to JS not because of his politics though much may be very similar............. They were / are both experts in their field. Something our political class is very much missing.

An expert leads from the front. A leader with no expertise leads from behind with briefings and hopefully followers.

Who would you follow into battle over the top of the trenches - a war aged captain who had learnt and earned his spurs on the field or a ready made colnol from Sandhurst who had got there by being good in class........

gerber wrote:I find it very interesting.............

Did anyone of you hear Gove speak today.........

If so you are excused.  If not being media reapers is about all you are good for.

The actual thread was in memory of the Rt Hon John Smith.

A labour politician.  An expert in his field.  A gentleman who hand not spent all his life either in school, college nor as a political researcher trying to find a way into Westminster.  He had been educated, learned and become wise in the toils of life.  An expert if you like of everyday toils and tribulations...........

he had respect among the HOC from all benches because of his knowledge.  I have likened Gove to JS not because of his politics though much may be very similar.............  They were / are both experts in their field.  Something our political class is very much missing.

An expert leads from the front.  A leader with no expertise leads from behind with briefings and hopefully followers.

Who would you follow into battle over the top of the trenches -  a war aged captain who had learnt and earned his spurs on the field or  a ready made colnol from Sandhurst who had got there by being good in class........

Do think he has messed up with the money he appears to have syphoned off for academies though Gerbs. That aside, as you said this is about John Smith, and he was definitely a war aged captain who have earned his spurs and knew his subject.

Sassy wrote:

gerber wrote:I find it very interesting.............

Did anyone of you hear Gove speak today.........

If so you are excused.  If not being media reapers is about all you are good for.

The actual thread was in memory of the Rt Hon John Smith.

A labour politician.  An expert in his field.  A gentleman who hand not spent all his life either in school, college nor as a political researcher trying to find a way into Westminster.  He had been educated, learned and become wise in the toils of life.  An expert if you like of everyday toils and tribulations...........

he had respect among the HOC from all benches because of his knowledge.  I have likened Gove to JS not because of his politics though much may be very similar.............  They were / are both experts in their field.  Something our political class is very much missing.

An expert leads from the front.  A leader with no expertise leads from behind with briefings and hopefully followers.

Who would you follow into battle over the top of the trenches -  a war aged captain who had learnt and earned his spurs on the field or  a ready made colnol from Sandhurst who had got there by being good in class........

Do think he has messed up with the money he appears to have syphoned off for academies though Gerbs.   That aside, as you said this is about John Smith, and he was definitely a war aged captain who have earned his spurs and knew his subject.

Sorry Sassy he hasn't syphoned off any money. It is all muck spreading, another media let's give them something so the real happenings won't be seen......

The fact that Laws who I have gone to post with respecting wasn't in the House says it all. Cloggy is the most desperate of men at the moment and is trying for all his worth to wreck everything before he becomes a spent cell in cyber space......

Nick Clegg is so desperate therefore dangerous a politician, he can't declare war on another country so he declares a non war on what is one of the most political hotbeds of interest to all of the middle generation with children............ education but no name has been linked to the leak.... assumptions one and all again...

It may have passed Cloggy's notice Gove is a master and a potential leader. He tried to undermine him and failed to the point of raising Gove's respect throughout the House.

Well, he certainly talked the talk, but most commentators said that he very skillfully avoided the question of the £400million and that it still hasn't been answered.   Tristam Hunt didn't do much and David Laws, who would probably have pinned him down, inexplicably didn't arrive, probably to do with the meeting between Cameron and Clegg this morning (now there is a couple of weasels).   However, the treasury have threatened to bring in the police, so they might be more to this later.   What a wonderful lot!

Sassy wrote:Well, he certainly talked the talk, but most commentators said that he very skillfully avoided the question of the £400million and that it still hasn't been answered.   Tristam Hunt didn't do much and David Laws, who would probably have pinned him down, inexplicably didn't arrive, probably to do with the meeting between Cameron and Clegg this morning (now there is a couple of weasels).   However, the treasury have threatened to bring in the police, so they might be more to this later.   What a wonderful lot!

OK got me interested.....

keep me posted.

Laws as far as I know backs Gove to the hilt................ or did until Friday lol

gerber wrote:

Sassy wrote:Well, he certainly talked the talk, but most commentators said that he very skillfully avoided the question of the £400million and that it still hasn't been answered.   Tristam Hunt didn't do much and David Laws, who would probably have pinned him down, inexplicably didn't arrive, probably to do with the meeting between Cameron and Clegg this morning (now there is a couple of weasels).   However, the treasury have threatened to bring in the police, so they might be more to this later.   What a wonderful lot!

OK got me interested.....

keep me posted.

Laws as far as I know backs Gove to the hilt................  or did until Friday  lol

No, he's the one who have been having the row with him and accused him of syphoning off the money!    They think after the meeting this morning Cleggy told him to hold back.


The spat over whether the education department has diverted £400m of its budget away from local authority schools into Gove's pet free schools programme is essentially an internecine one between the coalition parties. More specifically, between Gove and the man who normally sits next to him on the front bench for education questions, his schools' minister, the Liberal Democrat David Laws.

Only Laws hadn't bothered to show up. He had a meeting that he simply hadn't been able to rearrange, we were told. Presumably because it had only been arranged a few hours earlier once he had discovered that Labour had tabled an urgent question about the row.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/12/michael-gove-free-school-freefight-john-crace-sketch

Sassy wrote:

gerber wrote:

OK got me interested.....

keep me posted.

Laws as far as I know backs Gove to the hilt................  or did until Friday  lol

No, he's the one who have been having the row with him and accused him of syphoning off the money!    They think after the meeting this morning Cleggy told him to hold back.


The spat over whether the education department has diverted £400m of its budget away from local authority schools into Gove's pet free schools programme is essentially an internecine one between the coalition parties. More specifically, between Gove and the man who normally sits next to him on the front bench for education questions, his schools' minister, the Liberal Democrat David Laws.

Only Laws hadn't bothered to show up. He had a meeting that he simply hadn't been able to rearrange, we were told. Presumably because it had only been arranged a few hours earlier once he had discovered that Labour had tabled an urgent question about the row.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/12/michael-gove-free-school-freefight-john-crace-sketch

Ummmm

I smell a scaperat............. Laws taking it for cloggy. Sorry. Laws has nothing to loose....... Interstingly no one on either bench pushed for a reason either.

Normally the Minister is hounded............... not in this case. Maybe they all know the real poisoned pen...

Probably lol xx