should it be law that halal or kosher meat is clearly labeled??

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:15 pm

apparently it doesn't have to be...

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:07 pm

yes it should

by Ben Reilly Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:41 pm

I agree -- the U.K. government and the EU should stop cowering to religious groups and give people the facts.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/24/plan-to-label-ritually-slaughtered-meat-angers-religious-group

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:56 pm

Here you go

from that article.

Animals killed by the shechita technique are not stunned before having their throats cut and blood drained out. Halal meat is slaughtered using a similar technique, although research by the British Veterinary Association suggests 80% of halal meat is stunned before slaughter.

Religious groups have expressed anger at the proposals. A Jewish campaign group, Shechita UK, controversially claimed the measure was the "21st-century equivalent of the yellow star, but on our food". "This amendment does nothing to improve animal welfare, fails to fully inform consumers and is clearly discriminatory by design," said Henry Grunwald, spokesman for the group.

His comments were attacked by the British Humanist Association. "To compare the proper labelling of meat from religious slaughter methods with the Nazi requirement for all Jews to wear yellow Stars of David is grotesque and false," said Naomi Phillips, its head of public affairs. "Giving consumers the information to make ethical choices about the meat they buy through labelling does not prevent Jews who wish to from buying kosher meat."

so really what didge the dodge keeps saying is that the BHA is a nazi organisation too....for saying the same thing as I do....Ohh dear....

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:01 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:I agree -- the U.K. government and the EU should stop cowering to religious groups and give people the facts.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/24/plan-to-label-ritually-slaughtered-meat-angers-religious-group

AT LAST.....you said it...the reason why I do not trust/like or accept as a necessity "multiculturalism" like what she is writ.....

we have weak, yellow and useless governments....who do exactly what you have just described....do you wonder that some folks are pissed.....

and the above is only ONE of many many issues that need dealing with before we have PROPER and EQUITABLE multiculturalism....

but I forget...I'm a nazi for saying so.....

by David Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:04 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:apparently it doesn't have to be...

YES

NEXT ::pntyswrd::

by Ben Reilly Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:09 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:I agree -- the U.K. government and the EU should stop cowering to religious groups and give people the facts.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/24/plan-to-label-ritually-slaughtered-meat-angers-religious-group

AT LAST.....you said it...the reason why I do not trust/like or accept as a necessity "multiculturalism" like what she is writ.....

we have weak, yellow and useless governments....who do exactly what you have just described....do you wonder that some folks are pissed.....

and the above is only ONE of many many issues that need dealing with before we have PROPER and EQUITABLE multiculturalism....

but I forget...I'm a nazi for saying so.....

No, the labeling of meat has nothing to do with the holocaust and any comparison to it is disgraceful.

But you look at some people and they'd apparently love to live in a country where religion tells the government what to do -- as long as it's the religion they were raised with, of course ....

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:31 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

AT LAST.....you said it...the reason why I do not trust/like or accept as a necessity "multiculturalism" like what she is writ.....

we have weak, yellow and useless governments....who do exactly what you have just described....do you wonder that some folks are pissed.....

and the above is only ONE of many many issues that need dealing with before we have PROPER and EQUITABLE multiculturalism....

but I forget...I'm a nazi for saying so.....

No, the labeling of meat has nothing to do with the holocaust and any comparison to it is disgraceful.

tell that to didge..........the village idiot....

But you look at some people and they'd apparently love to live in a country where religion tells the government what to do -- as long as it's the religion they were raised with, of course ....

by Ben Reilly Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:47 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

AT LAST.....you said it...the reason why I do not trust/like or accept as a necessity "multiculturalism" like what she is writ.....

we have weak, yellow and useless governments....who do exactly what you have just described....do you wonder that some folks are pissed.....

and the above is only ONE of many many issues that need dealing with before we have PROPER and EQUITABLE multiculturalism....

but I forget...I'm a nazi for saying so.....

No, the labeling of meat has nothing to do with the holocaust and any comparison to it is disgraceful.

tell that to didge..........the village idiot....

But you look at some people and they'd apparently love to live in a country where religion tells the government what to do -- as long as it's the religion they were raised with, of course ....

Please don't draw me into the middle of your quarrel with him!

by Eilzel Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:51 pm

David wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:apparently it doesn't have to be...
YES

NEXT ::pntyswrd::

Yep, of course it should- that was pretty easy wasn't it Smile

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:59 pm

so......why isnt it?

and why am I a nazi for wanting it...

could the answer to both those questions be the same....

multiculturalism.....as practiced

by Ben Reilly Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:06 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:so......why isnt it?

and why am I a nazi for wanting it...

could the answer to both those questions be the same....

multiculturalism.....as practiced

I wouldn't worry too much about someone calling you a Nazi for wanting to make an informed choice when buying your food.

I've been investigating the issue as to why it isn't labeled, but I'm starting from square one here, not having dealt with the issue and not living in the U.K.

The best I can tell is that groups like the one we've been talking about don't want it labeled, presumably because they think it would impact sales or promote religious discrimination or some other nonsense. However, some meat is surely labeled as such, because some Jews and Muslims refuse to buy anything else, right?

I think there are probably several lobbies keeping a mandatory labeling law from happening, and I would suspect that they don't all share the same agenda.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:07 pm

I want it labeled i want to know .

I only eat pork at the moment , even lamb i can't eat because most of that is halal

by Eilzel Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:08 pm

VOD(original) wrote:I want it labeled i want to know .

I only eat pork at the moment , even lamb i can't eat because most of that is halal

I'm sure your nearest non-Muslim butcher will be able to inform you if their produce is halal or not Smile

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:10 pm

VOD(original) wrote:I want it labeled i want to know .

I only eat pork at the moment , even lamb i can't eat because most of that is halal

it is appalling really, all the things on the labels and kosher or halal does not appear on it.. Smile

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:11 pm

wow pretty universally agreed, well that's as close as you can get to a modern day miracle..

Praise the lord... Smile

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:14 pm

Eilzel wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:I want it labeled i want to know .

I only eat pork at the moment , even lamb i can't eat because most of that is halal

I'm sure your nearest non-Muslim butcher will be able to inform you if their produce is halal or not

probably could but why should i have to ask it should be labeled

by harvesmom Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:31 pm

Eilzel wrote:
VOD(original) wrote:I want it labeled i want to know .

I only eat pork at the moment , even lamb i can't eat because most of that is halal

I'm sure your nearest non-Muslim butcher will be able to inform you if their produce is halal or not

Which is why I will only eat meat from my local butcher, I will not eat Halal meat, and its a disgrace that its not labelled.

by Ben Reilly Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:32 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:wow pretty universally agreed, well that's as close as you can get to a modern day miracle..

Praise the lord...

Well, it just makes sense to me. I'm now intrigued as to finding out why labeling isn't the law.

Maybe some of our British members could phone or e-mail members of their government and post the answers? That could be pretty enlightening.

by Eilzel Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:32 pm

harvesmom wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

I'm sure your nearest non-Muslim butcher will be able to inform you if their produce is halal or not

Which is why I will only eat meat from my local butcher, I will not eat Halal meat, and its a disgrace that its not labelled.

It is. But then it isn't something I can honestly say I worry about- I love Indian takeaway, and could never not eat it; and I'm fairly certain most such places will be halal Neutral

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:33 pm

harvesmom wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

I'm sure your nearest non-Muslim butcher will be able to inform you if their produce is halal or not

Which is why I will only eat meat from my local butcher, I will not eat Halal meat, and its a disgrace that its not labelled.

yes it is, i wonder if they don't label it because people wouldn't buy it and that would push the price up...

by SEXY MAMA Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:37 pm

Yes it should be clearly labelled!

For the love of God Mary and Jesus.............

by David Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:39 pm

Eilzel wrote:
harvesmom wrote:

Which is why I will only eat meat from my local butcher, I will not eat Halal meat, and its a disgrace that its not labelled.

It is. But then it isn't something I can honestly say I worry about- I love Indian takeaway, and could never not eat it; and I'm fairly certain most such places will be halal

A lot of Indian curry houses are not Muslim.

by Eilzel Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:41 pm

David wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

It is. But then it isn't something I can honestly say I worry about- I love Indian takeaway, and could never not eat it; and I'm fairly certain most such places will be halal

A lot of Indian curry houses are not Muslim.

A lot are not; but most are.

by SEXY MAMA Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:44 pm

David wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

It is. But then it isn't something I can honestly say I worry about- I love Indian takeaway, and could never not eat it; and I'm fairly certain most such places will be halal

A lot of Indian curry houses are not Muslim.

Doends if they sell only vegetarian dishes David.

Otherwise its a safe bet they are halaal

by David Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:45 pm

Eilzel wrote:
David wrote:

A lot of Indian curry houses are not Muslim.

A lot are not; but most are.

Yeah if they are of Pakistani origin like Mumtaz, Agraar etc Here they say a curry house referring to the Pakistani take aways and Indian for the Indian curries study

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:46 pm

Curry......YEUK....why would anyone want to eat that taste bud destroying, stomach wrenching, bowel perforating ring piece incinerating stuff???????????????

by SEXY MAMA Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:47 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:Curry......YEUK....why would anyone want to eat that taste bud destroying, stomach wrenching, bowel perforating ring piece incinerating stuff???????????????

You obviously havent had a good curry!

by Eilzel Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:50 pm

David wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

A lot are not; but most are.

Yeah if they are of Pakistani origin like Mumtaz, Agraar etc Here they say a curry house referring to the Pakistani take aways and Indian for the Indian curries

Even Indian takeaways 9/10 are halal. In Rusholme in Manchester (Curry Mile) nearly all are halal; Indian, Bangladeshi or Pakistani. As Sexy says the best guarantee they are not is if they are vegetarian. If they sell beef they are definitely halal since they will almost certainly be Muslim then.

^awww Vic the delights you are missing in curry- the spice, the taste explosion, the tangy sauces the texture of chicken tikka mmmmmmmmmmmmm mouths watering at the thought (and I had madras earlier haha) Razz

(I understand you are probably heaving at the thought haha)

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:56 pm

as far as my inner and intestinal peace is concerned...there is no such thing as a "good" curry....merely ones that are (marginally) less evil than others......

by SEXY MAMA Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:59 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:as far as my inner and intestinal peace is concerned...there is no such thing as a "good" curry....merely ones that are (marginally) less evil than others......

Now you are being a grumpy old git

by Eilzel Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:00 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:as far as my inner and intestinal peace is concerned...there is no such thing as a "good" curry....merely ones that are (marginally) less evil than others......

You sound like my Gran- let me guess, only traditional British food for you, none of the foreign guff Wink

by harvesmom Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:03 pm

Eilzel wrote:
harvesmom wrote:

Which is why I will only eat meat from my local butcher, I will not eat Halal meat, and its a disgrace that its not labelled.

It is. But then it isn't something I can honestly say I worry about- I love Indian takeaway, and could never not eat it; and I'm fairly certain most such places will be halal

I did ask the Indian take away I use.. they said no but to be honest I mainly have Chinese now instead. But then what about places like McDonalds, I know KFC use halal meat which is why I wont ever have those now. Problem is we don't really know what we are eating do we. For me, its not a religion problem, its an animal cruelty problem.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:08 pm

the main difference being if you go in an indian takeaway you may expect the meat they use to be halal, you don't necessarily assume that most supermarket meat being sold is halal...

by Eilzel Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:09 pm

harvesmom wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

It is. But then it isn't something I can honestly say I worry about- I love Indian takeaway, and could never not eat it; and I'm fairly certain most such places will be halal

I did ask the Indian take away I use.. they said no but to be honest I mainly have Chinese now instead. But then what about places like McDonalds, I know KFC use halal meat which is why I wont ever have those now. Problem is we don't really know what we are eating do we. For me, its not a religion problem, its an animal cruelty problem.

No we don't really know. I watched a video from a UK slaughter house once, and even with stunning it wasn't a guarantee and you could tell the animals were terrified and suffering. I came to the point where as cruel as it is I just accept there are billions of people in the world and it is a necessary evil that animals will suffer for our consumption.

There is a horrible problem of limitation too. I enjoy Indian food; I went on holiday in Egypt and I'm quite sure the food I ate there was halal- same for India- if I was to be fussy I'd have to severely limit my options. And I do wonder the REAL difference here. Some studies suggest halal slaughter actually causes the animal to suffer no more, or even less, that conventional British slaughter methods- so it is all a great concern over something we don't really know about imo.

As for MaccyDs- whether it is halal or not shouldn't be the main worry there Wink

by harvesmom Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:25 pm

Think I may just become Vegetarian Sad

by SEXY MAMA Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:27 pm

harvesmom wrote:Think I may just become Vegetarian

I wish i could......

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:45 pm

Eilzel wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:as far as my inner and intestinal peace is concerned...there is no such thing as a "good" curry....merely ones that are (marginally) less evil than others......

You sound like my Gran- let me guess, only traditional British food for you, none of the foreign guff

Nope...i can eat most anything...but curry...lets just say ...if ever I was to be constipated i know a sure fire cure........

mind, having said that...mexican stuff also screws up my bowels into knots....I recon its Chilli thats does me...even a trace.....

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:46 pm

harvesmom wrote:Think I may just become Vegetarian

vegetarian.....old indian word meaning Bad Hunter

by Eilzel Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:47 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

You sound like my Gran- let me guess, only traditional British food for you, none of the foreign guff

Nope...i can eat most anything...but curry...lets just say ...if ever I was to be constipated i know a sure fire cure........

mind, having said that...mexican stuff also screws up my bowels into knots....I recon its Chilli thats does me...even a trace.....

I reckon so haha; I love Mexican too- the hotter my food the better sunny

^PMSL

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:19 pm

only a lager can kill a vindaloo.....

"Red Dwarf"

by Guest Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:49 am

Dear me poor Victor has me on ignore and talks about me in every post, hilarious and again no I do not agree with the comparrison on halal to Jews being labelled, I do though and have shown your arguments are the same as the Nazis on the Jews, as use against Muslims from incompatibility of their religions with the west which as seen you had no answer. Thus I compare arguments, they compare actually crimes committed, not the same at all dummy

To compare is not to equate, as Micha Brumlik (a famous pedagogue who analyses issues of Jewish identity, the Holocaust and anti-Semitism) and others have repeatedly emphasised.

Man is Victor thick

Now again read these words and see how similar yours are and I will change a couple of words to show how easily so:

"It must open the eyes of the people with regard to foreign nations and must remind them again and again of the true enemy of our present day world. In the place of hate against the British-from whom we may be separated by almost everything, to whom, however, we are tied by common blood or the great tide of a common culture-it must dedicate to the general anger the evil enemy of mankind as the true cause of all suffering.

The above was from Mein Kampf, sounds just like you Victor:

How about these:

"The numerous confessions made by the Jews show that the execution of ritual murders is a law to the Talmud Jew. the former chief rabbi, and later monk, Teofite, declared that the ritual murders take place especially on the Jewish Purim in memory of the Persian murders, and Passover in memory of the murder of Christ. The instructions are as follows.

"The blood of the victims is to be tapped by force. On Passover it is to be used in wine and matzos. Thus, a small part of the blood is to be poured into the dough of the matzos and into the wine. The mixing is done by the Jewish head of the family. The procedure is as follows:

"The family head empties a few drops of the fresh and powdered blood into the glass, wets the fingers of the left hand with it and sprays, blesses, with it everything on the table. The head of the family then says,Â’ Thus we ask God to send the ten plagues to all enemies of the Jewish faith." Then they eat, and at the end the head of the family exclaims, 'May all Gentiles perish, as the child whose blood is contained in the bread and wine.'

"The fresh, or dried and powdered blood of the slaughtered is further used by young married Jewish couples, by pregnant Jewesses, for circumcision and so on. Ritual murder is recognized by all Talmud Jews. The Jew believes he absolves himself thus of his sins." (2699-PS)

“If only one country, for whatever reason, tolerates a Jewish family in it, that family will become the germ center for fresh sedition. If one little Jewish boy survives without any Jewish education, with no synagogue and no Hebrew school, it [Judaism] is in his soul. Even if there had never been a synagogue or a Jewish school or an Old Testament, the Jewish spirit would still exist and exert its influence. It has been there from the beginning and there is no Jew, not a single one, who does not personify it.”

The internal expurgation of the Jewish spirit is not possible in any platonic way. For the Jewish spirit is the product of the Jewish person. Unless we expel the Jewish people. Unless we expel the Jewish people soon, they will have judaized our people within a very short time.”

His unfailing instinct in such things scents the original soul (die urspruengliche Seele) in everyone, and his hostility is assured to anyone who is not spirit of his spirit. Since the Jew is not the attacked but the attacker, not only anyone who attacks passes as his enemy, but also anyone who resists him. But the means with which he seeks to break such reckless but upright souls is not honest warfare, but lies and slander.

Here he stops at nothing, and in his vileness he becomes so gigantic that no one need be surprised if among our people the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew.

The ignorance of the broad masses about the inner nature of the Jew, the lack of instinct and narrow-mindedness of our upper classes, make the people an easy victim for this Jewish campaign of lies.

While from innate cowardice the upper classes turn away from a man whom the Jew attacks with lies and slander, the broad masses from stupidity or simplicity believe everything. The state authorities either cloak themselves in silence or, what usually happens, in order to put an end to the Jewish press campaign, they persecute the unjustly attacked, which, in the eyes of such an official ass, passes as the preservation of state authority and the safeguarding of law and order.

Slowly fear and the Marxist weapon of Jewry descend like a nightmare on the mind and soul of decent people.

They begin to tremble before the terrible enemy and thus have become his final victim.

The Jew’s domination in the state seems so assured that now not only can he call himself a Jew again, but he ruthlessly admits his ultimate national and political designs. A section of his race openly owns itself to be a foreign people, yet even here they lie. For while the Zionists try to make the rest of the world believe that the national consciousness of the Jew finds its satisfaction in the creation of a Palestinian state, the Jews again slyly dupe the dumb Goyim. It doesn’t even enter their heads to build up a Jewish state in Palestine for the purpose of living there; all they want is a central organization for their international world swindle, endowed with its own sovereign rights and removed from the intervention of other states: a haven for convicted scoundrels and a university for budding crooks.

Sounds ever so familiar with your arguments, thus comparison to arguments made by the Nazi's, you make similar and proven

by Eilzel Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:57 am

victorisnotamused wrote:only a lager can kill a vindaloo.....

"Red Dwarf"

The two go together like a dream I love you

Heaven...

should it be law that halal or kosher meat is clearly labeled?? Saffrani-indian-meal-for-2-with-beer-for-15-659219-regular

by Guest Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:49 am

Eilzel wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:only a lager can kill a vindaloo.....

"Red Dwarf"

The two go together like a dream

Heaven...

wow that's making me hungry, looks great...

by Guest Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:37 am

looks lovely i agree

by Guest Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:41 am

VOD(original) wrote:looks lovely i agree

like i said it's making me hungry... Smile

by David Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:50 am

Eilzel wrote:
David wrote:

Yeah if they are of Pakistani origin like Mumtaz, Agraar etc Here they say a curry house referring to the Pakistani take aways and Indian for the Indian curries

Even Indian takeaways 9/10 are halal. In Rusholme in Manchester (Curry Mile) nearly all are halal; Indian, Bangladeshi or Pakistani. As Sexy says the best guarantee they are not is if they are vegetarian. If they sell beef they are definitely halal since they will almost certainly be Muslim then.

^awww Vic the delights you are missing in curry- the spice, the taste explosion, the tangy sauces the texture of chicken tikka mmmmmmmmmmmmm mouths watering at the thought (and I had madras earlier haha)

(I understand you are probably heaving at the thought haha)

Yeah probably the case in Manchunian land lol!

by Eilzel Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:03 pm

It's the same everywhere Mr D, I don't think I've been to an Indian that wasn't halal.

by David Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:05 pm

Eilzel wrote:It's the same everywhere Mr D, I don't think I've been to an Indian that wasn't halal.

Well I have nearby me. It is an exception I must admit. Beautiful Indian food x
It is an exception. study

by Tommy Monk Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:06 pm

Answer to OP - yes it should!
And should not be routinely served to anyone without knowledge like it is now.

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