Compulsary covid jabs for care workers...or face the sack.

by Syl Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:14 pm

Good, and it's about time.

"Covid vaccinations are to become mandatory for care home staff under plans to be announced by ministers, as they consider extending the move to all NHS staff.

The controversial measure sets up a likely battle with staff in both services and could lead to the government being sued under European human rights law or equalities legislation for breaching the freedom of people who work in caring roles to decide what they put into their bodies.

The Guardian understands that ministers will confirm they are pushing ahead with compulsory vaccination for most of the 1.5 million people working in social care in England, despite employer and staff organisations in the sector warning that it could backfire if workers quit rather than get immunised. Under the plans those working with adults will have 16 weeks to get vaccinated or face losing their jobs.

The government is also keen to make it mandatory for the 1.38 million people who are directly employed by the NHS in England to get vaccinated against Covid-19 and winter flu – proposals that have already been criticised by groups representing doctors, nurses and other staff.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/15/covid-jabs-to-become-mandatory-for-care-home-staff-in-england

by Original Quill Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:00 pm

Deadline wrote:Federal Court Dismisses Lawsuit Against Houston Hospital Network That Mandates Employee Covid-19 Vaccines

By Bruce Haring pmc-editorial-manager
June 13, 2021

In a case that has far-reaching implications, a federal judge has dismissed a lawsuit by Houston hospital employees who were ordered to get a COVID-19 vaccine shot or face termination.

The federal case involved Houston Methodist, the first hospital system in the country to require all of its employees to be vaccinated. US District Judge Lynn N. Hughes ruled Saturday that federal law does not prevent private employers from issuing that mandate.

Houston Methodist put more than 170 of its 26,000 employees on unpaid suspension Monday for refusing to be vaccinated. They were also warned they would be fired it they weren’t vaccinated by June 21.

The hospital had already fired its director of corporate risk and another manager in April when they did not meet an earlier deadline for vaccination.

The ruling is the first federal test of vaccination mandates. In recent weeks, a few other major hospitals have imposed requirements similar to Houston Methodist’s, including the University of Pennsylvania, University of Louisville, New York Presbyterian and several major hospitals in the Washington, D.C., area.

Houston Methodist’s CEO Marc Boom said the court ruling will allow more hospitals to act.

“We can now put this behind us and continue our focus on unparalleled safety, quality, service and innovation,” Boom said after the ruling. “Our employees and physicians made their decisions for our patients, who are always at the center of everything we do.”

The lawsuit that was dismissed was filed by 117 workers at Houston Methodist. Jennifer Bridges, a nurse at Houston Methodist’s Baytown hospital, led the group and said she turned down a shot because she considered it experimental and dangerous.

The judge did not agree, stating, “This claim is false, and it is also irrelevant.”

“This doesn’t surprise me,” Bridges said of the ruling. “Methodist is a very large company, and they are pretty well-protected in a lot of areas. We knew this was going to be a huge fight, and we are prepared to fight it.” Her group has started a GoFundMe website to raise a war chest in their ongoing legal struggle.

The plaintiffs argued that mandating a vaccine that was not fully approved by the US Food and Drug Administration was unlawful. The FDA has authorized the Moderna, Pfizer and Johnson & Johnson vaccines under a special provision for emergencies.

The judge rejected that claim.

“The hospital’s employees are not participants in a human trial,” he wrote. “They are licensed doctors, nurses, medical technician, and staff members. The hospital has not applied to test the COVID-19 vaccines on its employees.”

https://deadline.com/2021/06/houston-hospital-vaccine-ruling-employee-must-take-vaccines-1234774420/

Southerners!! Rolling Eyes

by Syl Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:48 pm

Our government could have a fight on it's hands too Quill, but if they are sued, hopefully common sense will win.

Someone against making the vaccines mandatory this morning said...'people in care homes are at their end of life anyway, it wouldn't be fair to insist their carers have the jab if they dont want it'.

Selfish unthinking idiots. Mad

by Original Quill Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:09 pm

Syl wrote:Our government could have a fight on it's hands too Quill, but if they are sued, hopefully common sense will win.

Someone against making the vaccines mandatory this morning said...'people in care homes are at their end of life anyway, it wouldn't be fair to insist their carers have the jab if they dont want it'.

Selfish unthinking idiots.

Sadly, that is the tone of politics of the Trumpsters here. They think they are entitled to the 'call' on the lives of others. They confuse democracy with autocracy. They also think America means me-first.

They twist other values as well; they think democracy entitles them to bear arms, and shoot anyone who disagrees with them. Their values lead them to insurrections and other enemy-of-state norms.

by Vintage Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:35 pm

Not having the vaccine is fine but you shouldn't be suprised if other people censure you for your decision. I would not want an unvaccinated person caring for my elderly relatives even if they are at the conclusion of their lives. Perhaps a way around is unvaccinated people to have regular tests which they pay for themselves. Millions of people have had the vaccination why the reluctance.

by Syl Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:41 pm

I dont know that it's a political stance, I imagine many of the people who think it's their human right to work with the vulnerable and not get a vaccination, which is the only way out of potentially infecting others.....are too bloody stupid to think about voting.

In some care homes here, 30 plus % of carers have so far refused to be vaccinated.

by Syl Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:46 pm

Vintage wrote:Not having the vaccine is fine but you shouldn't be suprised if other people censure you for your decision. I would not want an unvaccinated person caring for my elderly relatives even if they are at the conclusion of their lives. Perhaps a way around is unvaccinated people to have regular tests which they pay for themselves. Millions of people have had the vaccination why the reluctance.

Many elderly people can live happily in a care home for years.
My mum was in a carehome for 3 years, some of the residents had needed care for many more years.....but in any case, the attitude that they are at the end of life so it doesn't matter.....stinks.

by Original Quill Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:51 pm

My right to punch stops at your nose. It's as simple as that. This isn't even like seatbelt laws, where the prohibition is preventing you from doing damage to yourself. This is literally making illegal one's ability to harm others, which is the very essence of law in a civilized society.

Asymptomatic carriers of diseases must discipline themselves, or the discipline will be imposed. Typhoid Mary was an asymptomatic carrier who worked in domestic service. She refused isolation. Eventually she was forcibly quarantined by authorities, ultimately for the final two decades of her life.

Typhoid Mary died after a total of nearly 30 years in isolation. She should stand as a model for the severity of the issue, and the only answer to the problem. It's not nice to kill people; even if you haven't got the mens res, you have the knowledge, which makes it reckless indifference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon

by Syl Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:35 pm

When my mum lived at home and I was her carer, I had the flu jab every year.
She was elderly and frail, and had I caught the flu and passed it on to her I would never have forgiven myself.

It's the same thing now....only with a far more serious disease, and like you say, one that a carrier can have and not even be aware that they are infectious.

by eddie Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:51 pm

This is crossing the line. If you’re applying for a job then the employer can put that into your contract and it’s up to you if you want to have the vaccine, but if you already work there and you’re told you have to have the jab or your fired....well, that’s just simply not right.
And probably illegal.

by Syl Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:33 am

eddie wrote:This is crossing the line. If you’re applying for a job then the employer can put that into your contract and it’s up to you if you want to have the vaccine, but if you already work there and you’re told you have to have the jab or your fired....well, that’s just simply not right.
And probably illegal.

It will be interesting to see which side the law would accept if a case was brought to court.

Circumstances have changed drastically, which could possibly warrant changes in a persons contract,
.
The whole point of a carer is to care, refusing to help stop a deadly infection, which has been proven to be deadly especially to the old, is hardly caring.

by Original Quill Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:41 am

eddie wrote:This is crossing the line. If you’re applying for a job then the employer can put that into your contract and it’s up to you if you want to have the vaccine, but if you already work there and you’re told you have to have the jab or your fired....well, that’s just simply not right.
And probably illegal.

I think it is right. You seem to state your position, eds, but you make no plausible argument for it. Why does it matter if you already work there? You are right...it's a contract. But you don't answer the question: what happens when a pandemic comes along?

You put the argument in contract terms, but what if an entirely new, unanticipated contingency comes up? What to do when the contract doesn't provide for it? You are at the point of renegotiating the contract.

That puts you in the position of the new employee, whom you say can take it or leave it. Any time a contract does not provide for a contingency, you are back in no-contract land. Most employment contracts are 'at-will' anyway, so, absent statutes, one party can just sever the relationship anyway.

by Eilzel Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:16 am

If I had a relative in a care home (which I did till very recently), and discovered a staff member/s refused a vaccine that helped prevent a (especially for elderly people) deadly virus spreading and killing, I’d want them sacked.

I reckon a majority in the same situation would feel the same. As would the elderly in homes themselves.

Care homes are about those being cared for. The health and safety of those people is what matters.

While I’m here, carers should be paid way more than they are for what they do, but that’s another issue…

by Syl Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:33 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:This is crossing the line. If you’re applying for a job then the employer can put that into your contract and it’s up to you if you want to have the vaccine, but if you already work there and you’re told you have to have the jab or your fired....well, that’s just simply not right.
And probably illegal.

I think it is right. You seem to state your position, eds, but you make no plausible argument for it. Why does it matter is you already work there. You are right...it's a contract. But you don't answer the question: what happens when a pandemic comes along?

You put the argument in contract terms, but what if an entirely new, unanticipated contingency comes up? What to do when the contract doesn't provide for it? You are at the point of renegotiating the contract.

That puts you in the position of the new employee, whom you say can take it or leave it. Any time a contract does not provide for a contingency, you are back in no-contract land. Most employment contracts are 'at-will' anyway, so, absent statutes, one party can just sever the relationship anyway.

That's what I said in my previous post....you just said it better. Laughing

by Original Quill Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:39 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I think it is right. You seem to state your position, eds, but you make no plausible argument for it. Why does it matter if you already work there? You are right...it's a contract. But you don't answer the question: what happens when a pandemic comes along?

You put the argument in contract terms, but what if an entirely new, unanticipated contingency comes up? What to do when the contract doesn't provide for it? You are at the point of renegotiating the contract.

That puts you in the position of the new employee, whom you say can take it or leave it. Any time a contract does not provide for a contingency, you are back in no-contract land. Most employment contracts are 'at-will' anyway, so, absent statutes, one party can just sever the relationship anyway.

That's what I said in my previous post....you just said it better.

Sometimes there are several ways to say something, and saying it again, but differently, is a way of giving a full, rounded description of the reasoning. I recognized you had already said it, but the repetition in a different form solidifies the picture.

And I didn't say it better...just differently. Wink

by eddie Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:58 pm

I take your point Quill, (and Syl), but I have a real problem with being told I have to do something with my body that I’m not entirely comfortable with. It’s sort of invasive.

It’s my body, right? It’s the only thing I actually own and have rights over.

I understand all the obvious points, and I do even agree with them...it’s just, ugh, I find it very demanding and almost as though my human rights are being taken away.

by Syl Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:19 pm

eddie wrote:I take your point Quill, (and Syl), but I have a real problem with being told I have to do something with my body that I’m not entirely comfortable with. It’s sort of invasive.

It’s my body, right? It’s the only thing I actually own and have rights over.

I understand all the obvious points, and I do even agree with them...it’s just, ugh, I find it very demanding and almost as though my human rights are being taken away.

I understand your point of view, I think making a vaccination compulsary would be wrong, but care workers will have a choice. If they choose to refuse they have to find alternative employment.

I think the human right of the old and frail not to be infected usurps the human right of the care worker not to be vaccinated.

by eddie Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:39 pm

See? I agree with your last sentence, with absolute heart and soul...but here’s my problem:

Where will it end? By making carers have the flu jab, for instance? Will we have to be jabbed against our will for everything? It feels like a step in the direction of dictatorship.
And I just don’t like it. At all.

by Syl Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:51 pm

eddie wrote:See? I agree with your last sentence, with absolute heart and soul...but here’s my problem:

Where will it end? By making carers have the flu jab, for instance? Will we have to be jabbed against our will for everything? It feels like a step in the direction of dictatorship.
And I just don’t like it. At all.

I do understand, and before this pandemic i would have strongly been against any rule that said get jabbed or get out.
But.....too many people have died, thousands more are being infected daily, and it's only because a good percentage of people have now been vaccinated that the more vulnerable are no longer dying......but no one can rule out a deadly third wave, and the best way to prevent that is vaccination.

There is talk that a compulsary flu jab for carers may be introduced in future. But flu is different inso far as people with flu tend to be too ill to go to work anyway, so there is a lot less chance of spreading it.....having said that, I think carers and NHS staff should be vaccinated.

by eddie Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:11 am

I agree with everything you’ve said, truly.

Yet still....I can’t live in a world where I’m told what to put into my body or get fired.

by Syl Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:17 am

I'm afraid this may be one of those times where authority will insist you (carers and NHS staff) follow the rules or leave.

My view is that's the right thing to do.

by Original Quill Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:38 am

eddie wrote:I agree with everything you’ve said, truly.

Yet still....I can’t live in a world where I’m told what to put into my body or get fired.

I understand your concerns, and your idea of personal rights to your own body. Unfortunately, infectious biology does not. To those microbes, you are a piece of meat; your rights are b'shite, and they intend to keep munching on you and anyone else in the vicinity.

Given that, your choice is twofold: (1) isolation...removal from others so they don't catch it - which in this case means termination from your job; or (2) vaccination. What is incredible is we have the answer in a vaccination, and people are still reticent. It's like, after Pearl Harbor, people complaining about all the smoke in the air. Right now, there's bigger fish to be worried about.

by Tommy Monk Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:41 pm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9702783/Harry-Potter-publisher-Bloomsbury-tells-staff-Covid-vaccines.html

Fuk off!!!

by Original Quill Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:42 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9702783/Harry-Potter-publisher-Bloomsbury-tells-staff-Covid-vaccines.html

Fuk off!!!

It's Daily Mail, tommy. I'd love to read it, but it's blocked over here.

I'm of the opinion that Bloomsbury is right. This time, the evil is not just that anyone can get it, but anyone can spread if!

As I said earlier, your right to punch stops at my nose. If one is going to engage in life-threatening behavior of others, one deserves to be locked up...or at least, denied the opportunity to be in the presence of others. Wink

Sorry.

by Tommy Monk Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:14 pm

Waffle...

by gelico Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:15 pm

https://www.bitchute.com/video/iZsvq3A4ndN3/

by Syl Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:47 pm

This is the same anti-vax protester who has been targetting school kids with false claims the vaccine can cause infertility.
There is no evidence this is true.

He also holds banners up outside schools stating that teens cant catch or spread Covid....wrong again.

by gelico Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:04 am

try this one then

https://www.bitchute.com/video/I8rK3oiMF4IB/

by gelico Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:11 am

or this one

https://odysee.com/@TLAVagabond:5/Michael-Yeadon-Interview-Former-Pfizer-VP-Speaks-Out-On-Dangers-mRNA-Vaccines-COVID-Illusion:8

by gelico Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:14 am

https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/05/22/covid-19-vaccine-officially-listed-as-the-underlying-cause-of-death-multiple-times-by-scotland-authorities/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

by gelico Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:19 am

this podcast is very chilling

https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-xhtcq-1038dee?utm_campaign=w_share_ep&utm_medium=dlink&utm_source=w_share

by gelico Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:20 am

https://rairfoundation.com/bombshell-nobel-prize-winner-reveals-covid-vaccine-is-creating-variants/

by gelico Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:23 am

last page of report gives total deaths from vaccine and adverse reactions

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/994381/COVID-19_AstraZenenca_Vaccine_Analysis_Print.pdf

by gelico Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:30 am

https://www.bitchute.com/video/9Ci2jK1yFoOd/

by gelico Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:37 am

https://thehighwire.com/videos/episode-219-in-harms-way/

by Tommy Monk Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:36 am

It was on radio yesterday about there being several hundred deaths and tens of thousands of adverse reactions to the astrazeneca vaccine...

by gelico Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:44 am

https://www.bitchute.com/video/1WVuJxjaQUSA/

by Syl Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:11 pm

I have watched a few minutes of one of the video's, that's enough for me. Not sure what they were arguing about saying once you are vaccinated you still can't throw away your mask or stop social distancing.
That's exactly what has been said by the government from the start.
At the present time thousands of people are still being infected daily in the UK. There are very few deaths now because it's mainly younger people who are being infected, and it's been known from the start that the virus is far more dangerous for the older people who have mostly been vaccinated.
I would take that as proof that the vaccination programme has worked so far.

Gels, do you know anyone who has died or become seriously ill after having the jab?
I personally know three people who have died of Covid.

by gelico Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:05 pm

'''I watched a few minutes of one of the videos''

well that's up to you

good luck

by gelico Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:33 pm

BREAKING - Four men in the Nottingham area have developed the rare Guillain-Barré syndrome days after having the C0V1-D jab. A life-threatening disease where the body’s immune system starts to break down and can leave the person paralysed....

https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/06/23/four-uk-men-develop-life-threatening-guillain-barre-syndrome-after-having-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine/

by gelico Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:40 pm

by Syl Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:31 pm

gelico wrote:

BREAKING - Four men in the Nottingham area have developed the rare Guillain-Barré syndrome days after having the C0V1-D jab. A life-threatening disease where the body’s immune system starts to break down and can leave the person paralysed....

https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/06/23/four-uk-men-develop-life-threatening-guillain-barre-syndrome-after-having-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine/

Gels, no one has said that any vaccine, or any medication, even a paracetamol is 100% safe for 100% of the population.

One of these men was healthy, the others have existing serious medical conditions. Just as the vulnerable and elderly were more at risk from the virus, people with serious existing medical conditions have been advised to seek advice before having the vaccine.

The vaccines has saved millions of people from dying from a new virus, as with any vaccine, including the ones we all allowed our children to have, a miniscule minority will have adverse side effects.

by gelico Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:19 pm

by Syl Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:44 pm

This has turned into a very odd thread. I will leave you to just keep posting the vids then. Rolling Eyes

by Vintage Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:54 pm

Its true some people die from receiving vaccines, others have adverse effects that sometimes never go away, the thing is many more people who have the vaccine survive the virus or never get it.
Imagine what it would be like if no one had the vaccine how many would die or have on going problems with the virus then?
Life itself is pretty chancy for everyone.

by gelico Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:40 pm

Vintage wrote:Its true some people die from receiving vaccines, others have adverse effects that sometimes never go away, the thing is many more people who have the vaccine survive the virus or never get it.

that's absolutely false and has been proven. those who have been vaxed are falling ill WITH covid

Imagine what it would be like if no one had the vaccine how many would die or have on going problems with the virus then?
Life itself is pretty chancy for everyone.

and the second bit is false also

according to NHS own statistics and the Office of National Statistics. Hardly any more people died in 2020 than in any other year.

we also know that many many deaths of cancer/heart failure/dementia and all manner of other illnesses were reported as COVID deaths.

we also know that even for the over 70s and with underlying health conditions have a 95% chance of survival.
if given ivermectim, hydrochloroquine, zinc, vitamin D increases their chances to at least 97%

for the rest of the population its a 99% survival virus

children are not affected

over a year ago it was just 3 weeks to flatten the curve

we only need to protect the vulnerable

fast forward to now and everyone ordered to mask up, double vaxed, boosters needed, EVERYONE needs to have it

i surely can't be the only one who finds it somewhat odd to say the least

by Vintage Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:00 pm

That's ok you believe what you want to believe. I know people who have died from complications of getting the virus - not always old people and some who are still suffering the effects of having the virus, both personally and through work. I know people who have had the vaccine and had no effects, me included, and I know people who have had temporary effects but I haven't come across anyone with long term effects or have died from the vaccine, at least not in my part of the country.

by gelico Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:26 pm

Eric Clapton's story of the vaccine

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?extid=0&v=1329901727405258

by gelico Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:42 pm

Boris Johnson wrote this article in 2007

''Global over-population is the real issue

It is a tragic measure of how far the world has changed – and the infinite capacity of modern man for taking offence – that there are no two subjects that can get you more swiftly into political trouble than motherhood and apple pie.

The last time I tentatively suggested that there was something to be said in favour of apple pie, I caused a frenzy of hatred in the healthy-eating lobby. It reached such a pitch that journalists were actually pelting me with pies, and demanding a retraction, and an apology, and a formal denunciation of the role of apple pie in causing obesity.

As for motherhood – the fertility of the human race – we are getting to the point where you simply can’t discuss it, and we are thereby refusing to say anything sensible about the biggest single challenge facing the Earth; and no, whatever it may now be conventional to say, that single biggest challenge is not global warming. That is a secondary challenge. The primary challenge facing our species is the reproduction of our species itself.

Depending on how fast you read, the population of the planet is growing with every word that skitters beneath your eyeball. There are more than 211,000 people being added every day, and a population the size of Germany every year.

As someone who has now been travelling around the world for decades, I see this change, and I feel it. You can smell it in the traffic jams of the Middle East. You can see it as you fly over Africa at night, and you see mile after mile of fires burning red in the dark, as the scrub is removed to make way for human beings.

You can see it in the satellite pictures of nocturnal Europe, with the whole place lit up like a fairground. You can see it in the crazy dentition of the Shanghai skyline, where new skyscrapers are going up round the clock.

You can see it as you fly over Mexico City, a vast checkerboard of smog-bound, low-rise dwellings stretching from one horizon to the other; and when you look down on what we are doing to the planet, you have a horrifying vision of habitations multiplying and replicating like bacilli in a Petri dish.

The world’s population is now 6.7 billion, roughly double what it was when I was born. If I live to be in my mid-eighties, then it will have trebled in my lifetime.

The UN last year revised its forecasts upwards, predicting that there will be 9.2 billion people by 2050, and I simply cannot understand why no one discusses this impending calamity, and why no world statesmen have the guts to treat the issue with the seriousness it deserves.

How the hell can we witter on about tackling global warming, and reducing consumption, when we are continuing to add so relentlessly to the number of consumers? The answer is politics, and political cowardice.

There was a time, in the 1960s and 1970s, when people such as my father, Stanley, were becoming interested in demography, and the UN would hold giant conferences on the subject, and it was perfectly respectable to talk about saving the planet by reducing the growth in the number of human beings.

But over the years, the argument changed, and certain words became taboo, and certain concepts became forbidden, and we have reached the stage where the very discussion of overall human fertility – global motherhood – has become more or less banned.

We seem to have given up on population control, and all sorts of explanations are offered for the surrender. Some say Indira Gandhi gave it all a bad name, by her demented plan to sterilise Indian men with the lure of a transistor radio.

Some attribute our complacency to the Green Revolution, which seemed to prove Malthus wrong. It became the received wisdom that the world’s population could rise to umpteen billions, as mankind learnt to make several ears of corn grow where one had grown before.

And then, in recent years, the idea of global population control has been more or less stifled by a pincer movement from the Right and the Left. American Right-wingers disapprove of anything that sounds like birth control, and so George W. Bush withholds the tiny contribution America makes to the UN Fund for Population Activities, regardless of the impact on the health of women in developing countries.

As for the Left, they dislike suggestions of population control because they seem to smack of colonialism and imperialism and telling the Third World what to do; and so we have reached the absurd position in which humanity bleats about the destruction of the environment, and yet there is not a peep in any communiqué from any summit of the EU, G8 or UN about the population growth that is causing that destruction.

The debate is surely now unavoidable. Look at food prices, driven ever higher by population growth in India and China. Look at the insatiable Chinese desire for meat, which has pushed the cost of feed so high that Vladimir Putin has been obliged to institute price controls in the doomed fashion of Diocletian or Edward Heath.

Even in Britain, chicken farmers are finding that the cost of chickenfeed is no longer exactly chickenfeed, and, though the food crisis may once again be solved by the wit of man, the damage to the environment may be irreversible.

It is time we had a grown-up discussion about the optimum quantity of human beings in this country and on this planet. Do we want the south-east of Britain, already the most densely populated major country in Europe, to resemble a giant suburbia?

This is not, repeat not, an argument about immigration per se, since in a sense it does not matter where people come from, and with their skill and their industry, immigrants add hugely to the economy.

This is a straightforward question of population, and the eventual size of the human race.

All the evidence shows that we can help reduce population growth, and world poverty, by promoting literacy and female emancipation and access to birth control. Isn’t it time politicians stopped being so timid, and started talking about the real number one issue?''

(whispers to himself ''of course if education doesn't work we will do it BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY'')

Boris was so passionate of overpopulation of the planet. He insisted that it was the number 1 priority

does no one find it slightly odd, to say the least, that he has now become determined to ''save'' everyone.

great granny grump was just one of so many many people who have died a shell of their fformer selves, alone, depressed, many unable to comprehend why their families can't visit. the families themselves utterly heartbroken at it, but no matter, just as long as we keep them all safe

hundreds of thousands will die of undiagnosed illness but no matter, as long as we keep great granny grump existing

hundreds of thousands been financially devestated but no matter as long as we keep great granny grump existing

by gelico Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:45 pm

Vintage wrote:That's ok you believe what you want to believe. I know people who have died from complications of getting the virus - not always old people and some who are still suffering the effects of having the virus, both personally and through work. I know people who have had the vaccine and had no effects, me included, and I know people who have had temporary effects but I haven't come across anyone with long term effects or have died from the vaccine, at least not in my part of the country.

i'm looking at stats, facts and listening to expert scientists, doctors, viral specialists, immunologists, (those ones that have not been allowed much air time for obvious reasons)

of course you won't hear about those dying of the vaccine. the information is only starting to emerge and is being kept as quiet as possible

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