28 Dead In Mass Stabbing In China

1st March 2014

Awful.

Do they have muslims in China?

At least 28 people have been killed and 109 wounded in a mass stabbing at a Chinese railway station.

According to Chinese state media, the attack at Kunming train station in the country's southwestern Yunnan province was "organised and premeditated".

Reports from the city suggest a group of people armed with knives entered the train station at about 9pm local time on Saturday and attacked travellers with knives indiscriminately.

Photos on Chinese social media show horrific scenes with blooded bodies and luggage strewn across the station concourse.

One local resident, Yang Haifei, told China's Xinhua news agency he was attacked and sustained injuries on his chest and back.

Mr Yang said he was buying a ticket when he saw a group of people, most dressed in black, rush into the station and start their attack.

"I saw a person come straight at me with a long knife and I ran away with everyone," he said.

Unconfirmed reports suggest police shot and killed some of the attackers and detained others.

Chinese police are not routinely armed which may explain why the perpetrators were able to attack so many people before being stopped.

According to eyewitness reports seen by Sky News, there is tension across Kunming amid concern that further attacks may be planned at other locations in the city.

Train stations in Chinese cities are vast and usually extremely busy.

The motive for the attack is not clear. One suggestion is that it is the result of a local social grievance.

However, the number of attackers and their intent to kill may point to something different.

It is possibly linked to China's volatile Xinjiang province in the far west of the country.

Extreme elements of the Muslim population who live there have carried out attacks in the past - most recently in Beijing's Tiananmen Square last year.


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/china-train-station-mass-stabbing-27-dead-184325249.html#RVF3Dth

Do they have Google in England?

I don't think the question needed to be asked; when it is answered in the last line of the OP   

Eilzel wrote:I don't think the question needed to be asked; when it is answered in the last line of the OP   

Oh yeah lol

I didn't bother reading the article - "28 dead in mass killing" was enough to start the alarms.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Eilzel wrote:I don't think the question needed to be asked; when it is answered in the last line of the OP   

Oh yeah lol

I didn't bother reading the article - "28 dead in mass killing" was enough to start the alarms.

Andy, you really should read the articles you post! See me after school ::D::

lol

Something I Don’t think a lot of the west appreciates is that China actually has 52 offical minority races as well as the Han Majority. These include Muslims groups in the western provinces and the descendants of Tsarist Russia.

Good point veya; in fact where Muslim violence is concerned there is nearly always a political motivation behind it. In Chechenya, Russia; in Palestine; in Xinjiang province in China (not a historic part of China anymore than Tibet). While this doesn't justify violence it shows how thev reasons separatists become violent is far more complicated than something inherrent to theie religion.

Eilzel wrote:Good point veya; in fact where Muslim violence is concerned there is nearly always a political motivation behind it. In Chechenya, Russia; in Palestine; in Xinjiang province in China (not a historic part of China anymore than Tibet). While this doesn't justify violence it shows how thev reasons separatists become violent is far more complicated than something inherrent to theie religion.

The muslims in Xinjiang province claim that China is trying to wipe them out, and many were killed last year.

Sassy wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Good point veya; in fact where Muslim violence is concerned there is nearly always a political motivation behind it. In Chechenya, Russia; in Palestine; in Xinjiang province in China (not a historic part of China anymore than Tibet). While this doesn't justify violence it shows how thev reasons separatists become violent is far more complicated than something inherrent to theie religion.

The muslims in Xinjiang province claim that China is trying to wipe them out, and many were killed last year.  

Nothing complicated about it, more Muslims living by the sword. Mind you China is hardly the best place to practice religion as even Christians and Buddhists are treated poorly.

Buddhists are not treated poorly; the biggest religion in China is Buddhism (although most are not religious), Tibetan Buddhists are a different matter and once again that is a case of separatists vs a 'neo-Imperial' government if you like. Neither Xinjiang or Tibet is Chinese, not culturally, ethnically or historically. Yes Muslims do have a habit if turning to violence and are inspired by their scriptures to do so- but without the geopolitical motivation there would be no reason. Don't simplify things.

So all those Buddhists killed in recent years are an illusion.   ::smthg:: 


The government is officially Atheist, but if you go through the right channels, one can practice any religion one wants. One cannot proselytize, or hold large meeting at home. I know a Christian church (I assume it's the same for any religion) must register with the government, but many do not want to because then the government as a certain level of control over the group.

To be fair, from what I gather is that the government will go after any group or person they assume is a threat to their power. That is why the Buddhist monks are treated the same as human rights lawyers and Christian preachers.

Now, people in general are fairly indifferent to religion. They will say they they are Buddhist, but don't really practice their religion in any way (my best friend is just like this). The government has done a good job at replacing religion with money. So if someone isn't really motivated to get into a certain religion, it's very likely that they will end up worshipping money.

I haven never heard of someone leaving the country to practice Buddhism. But many Tibetan monks do. Some will hike from Tibet to Nepal because they want to practice their religion freely. But that doesn't happen in mainland. In mainland I've only heard of Christians and Falun Gong having to leave the country to practice freely.

I didn't say or imply no Buddhists were killed; I was marking the difference between Buddhists as a whole and the Tibetan buddhists who also want to break from China. I agree with the Tibetans they should be a nation in their own right- but don't misunderstand the Chinese governments reasons for violence again Tibetan buddhists as religious persecution when it isn't.

Eilzel is right, China is not persecuting Buddhists it is Tibetan Buddhists which is very different as they were a theocratic nation (like Iran) so all the political powers were held be religious figures.
Amongst Buddhists, Tibetan Buddhists are seen somewhat like Jehovah’s witnesses in that they are an extreme/peculiar variant. Thai Buddhists for example (the monastery I spent time in was ran by Thai) don’t like the Dali Lama because he says women can’t be monks (only nuns) and the Monastery I stayed in had a Female Abbott, because Thai Buddhist don’t have the sexist dogma.

veya_victaous wrote:Eilzel is right, China is not persecuting Buddhists it is Tibetan Buddhists which is very different as they were a theocratic nation (like Iran) so all the political powers were held be religious figures.
Amongst Buddhists, Tibetan Buddhists are seen somewhat like Jehovah’s witnesses in that they are an extreme/peculiar variant. Thai Buddhists for example (the monastery I spent time in was ran by Thai) don’t like the Dali Lama because he says women can’t be monks (only nuns) and the Monastery I stayed in had a Female Abbott, because Thai Buddhist don’t have the sexist dogma.

Agree with much of what you say there Veya, naturally   

However from the time I spent in Thailand I wouldn't say that Thai Buddhism is entirely devoid of sexism. I have a photo here of a Temple which explicitly forbids women, but not men. I saw a few similar signs at some, though not all, temples. I also know women are not allowed to touch a male monk, although to be fair it may also be the case that men cannot touch the (very few I saw) female monks- and it is more to do with their vow of chastity.

Eilzel wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:Eilzel is right, China is not persecuting Buddhists it is Tibetan Buddhists which is very different as they were a theocratic nation (like Iran) so all the political powers were held be religious figures.
Amongst Buddhists, Tibetan Buddhists are seen somewhat like Jehovah’s witnesses in that they are an extreme/peculiar variant. Thai Buddhists for example (the monastery I spent time in was ran by Thai) don’t like the Dali Lama because he says women can’t be monks (only nuns) and the Monastery I stayed in had a Female Abbott, because Thai Buddhist don’t have the sexist dogma.

Agree with much of what you say there Veya, naturally

However from the time I spent in Thailand I wouldn't say that Thai Buddhism is entirely devoid of sexism. I have a photo here of a Temple which explicitly forbids women, but not men. I saw a few similar signs at some, though not all, temples. I also know women are not allowed to touch a male monk, although to be fair it may also be the case that men cannot touch the (very few I saw) female monks- and it is more to do with their vow of chastity.

The temple I stayed at was Nan Tien Temple known as “Southern Paradise” is the largest Buddhist temple in the Southern Hemisphere, located in Wollongong which is the coastal city about 150km south of Sydney.

It is a Fo Guang Shan Buddhist monastery, And I was mistaken (too broad) it is not just Thai but SE Asian and Taiwanese, Thailand still has other Buddhist sects too.
http://nantien.org.au:88/en/about-us/fo-guang-shan
http://nantien.org.au:88/en/

I disagree, the Buddhists were persecuted over the centuries and even more so under the Maoist regime.

Croissant wrote:I disagree, the Buddhists were persecuted over the centuries and even more so under the Maoist regime.

It is true Buddhist have been persecuted over millennia but they have done equal amounts of persecution against Taoist and Confucius.

Mao Banned all religion including Taoism and Confucius, as Buddhism has recovered the most I would suggest it was the least persecuted. Really if you look at China in the 1920's it is easy to understand why, it had been so weaken by traditions that it couldn’t even defend itself against Japan which has theoretically only a quarter of the man power.
Mao's great success is proven by the fact that China went from being anyones bitch in WW2 to second most powerful nation on Earth but 2010. A huge leap for any nation in under a century.

But it isn't.

Croissant wrote:But it isn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Power_Index



is the EU a nation then ?

China number 2 NATION since 2010

EU....? Do they know something that we don't - the united states of Europe perhaps?

Croissant wrote:EU....?   Do they know something that we don't - the united states of Europe perhaps?

I thought they were jumping the gun a bit too, weren't you guys gonna vote on it or something     

But you see China is Only behind the USA.

All depends on how it is measured.

While we're in a Chinese frame of mind...

well a Disney film is like a documentary         
Just like these Chinese ones about the USA

veya_victaous wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Agree with much of what you say there Veya, naturally  

However from the time I spent in Thailand I wouldn't say that Thai Buddhism is entirely devoid of sexism. I have a photo here of a Temple which explicitly forbids women, but not men. I saw a few similar signs at some, though not all, temples. I also know women are not allowed to touch a male monk, although to be fair it may also be the case that men cannot touch the (very few I saw) female monks- and it is more to do with their vow of chastity.

The temple I stayed at was Nan Tien Temple known as “Southern Paradise” is the largest Buddhist temple in the Southern Hemisphere, located in Wollongong which is the coastal city about 150km south of Sydney.

It is a Fo Guang Shan Buddhist monastery, And I was mistaken (too broad) it is not just Thai but SE Asian and Taiwanese, Thailand still has other Buddhist sects too.
http://nantien.org.au:88/en/about-us/fo-guang-shan
http://nantien.org.au:88/en/

Yes there are numerous sects. I lived in the north, Chiang Mai, not at a temple but I visited often enough (my partner's mother is very devout). I'm afraid aside from a very outsiders pov I have little knowledge of Thai Buddhism, however, that must have been a fascinating experience   

@Eilzel
It was... but it sort of made me decide Buddhism wasn't for me. too much like the Christian religions with mountains of dogma added to the teachings over the years.    I do like the Core of Buddhist philosophy though   

can we not talk about stabbings one of my uncles was stabbed to death and it really upsets me..

veya_victaous wrote:@Eilzel
It was... but it sort of made me decide Buddhism wasn't for me. too much like the Christian religions with mountains of dogma added to the teachings over the years.    I do like the Core of Buddhist philosophy though   

I think the dogma of any 'institutionalized' religion is repulsive; the money in the temples particularly disgusted me, especially considering the poverty especially in eastern and southern Thailand.

The core is nice though yes; I tell my boyfriend that if Buddhists actually followed Buddha himself rather than the Monks then things would be better   

Eilzel wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:@Eilzel
It was... but it sort of made me decide Buddhism wasn't for me. too much like the Christian religions with mountains of dogma added to the teachings over the years.    I do like the Core of Buddhist philosophy though   

I think the dogma of any 'institutionalized' religion is repulsive; the money in the temples particularly disgusted me, especially considering the poverty especially in eastern and southern Thailand.

The core is nice though yes; I tell my boyfriend that if Buddhists actually followed Buddha himself rather than the Monks then things would be better   

Well I think that is true of all organised Religions. Christians would be much nicer if the followed the example of Jesus too.

The Muslims in China are discriminated against and often treated unfairly. Tibetans are also treated very badly. My wife said that in her hometown (not far from Tibet) the Chinese govt tries to blame anything bad that happens on the ethnic minorities from Tibet or on the Muslims from Xinjiang. The govt knows the Tibetans are not happy at all with Chinese control (and I don't blame them as China is destroying their country and culture and pushing the minorities into poverty). Most of what happens in China, never leaves the country though. The govt tries to make the Tibetans look as savage and uncontrollable as possible so that the general population doesn't mind when the govt controls the area with an iron fist. When I asked a lot of Chinese (who had never been to Tibet) what they thought of Tibetans the answer was almost always, "Dirty, uneducated, violent savages."
So basically any bit of news coming out of China, you'll never know the real story or the actual details unless you were there and saw it with your own eyes. Once when I was in Tibet back in 2006 (or 2005, can't remember), the Chinese govt had the "50 Year Liberation Anniversary" and not a single Tibetan showed up to any of the events or parties or parades, so the Chinese just dressed a bunch of Chinese people up to look like Tibetans, to make it look like the Tibetans were celebrating with them. A few brave people attempted to protest the celebration, but they were beaten down, dragged off and never heard from again. Of course the newspaper headlines the next day were "Liberation Party Huge Success! Everyone Happy!"

On the topic of Buddhism in China: most Chinese go to the Buddhist temples on Chinese new year to burn incense and make offerings to the gods of money and luck. (Because everyone knows the core teachings of Buddhism focus on money and luck [!]) and they'll have their Buddhist alters in their houses but none of them really have any clue what Buddhism is really about. But that's the great thing about religion; you can just change it how you want, so that you can easily justify all your actions, desires and judgments.

Veya, that's interesting you stayed at a Buddhist temple in Australia. I've lived next to and have friends involved in several Buddhist temples and there is LOTS of corruption going on in the temples in Thailand and Cambodia (I'm sure other countries as well, but my experience is just in those two countries).
The Cham (ethnic minority in Cambodia) are some of the most honest, gentle people I've met (they are Muslims) while some of the most dishonest and scamming people have been from the Buddhist temples (Watts). Even the current, evil dictator of Cambodia claims to be a devout, practicing Buddhist. In fact, he says he is so Buddhist and spiritual that if anyone tries to say he is corrupt, that person will be sent the the 43rd level of hell. (I can't remember the exact level of hell, but it was a pretty low level). My view and opinion of Buddhism changed a lot when I moved to SE Asia. I grew up in a Muslim country and when my father (an Evangelical missionary) was kidnapped by rebels, it was the local Imam (Muslim leader) that sent his sons to go and rescue my dad. I guess I'm just trying to show that many western stereotypes are unfair and inaccurate. Historically, more evil and violence has been done in the name of God than Allah. Nixon was a hardcore Christian and Kissinger is a Jew and those two murdered millions of innocent people and were responsible for massive amounts of unnecessary death and lasting ecological damage and they were never punished. Then they had the balls to give Kissinger a Nobel Peace Prize. People are still dying and getting f@cked up TO THIS DAY because of their actions, so why do they get away with mass murder and illegal carpet bombing and chemical warfare?

I guess I went on a bit of a tangent there, but I'll take any opportunity to rub Kissinger's name in the mud while he is still alive. Kissinger and Nixon are responsible for more lasting damage and the deaths of way more innocent people (including Americans) than Osama Bin Laden, and Saddam. ok, rant finished.